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/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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10754294 No.10754294[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Did you do your reps yet /jp/?

>> No.10754523

>>10754294
can't have to read a stupid paper for my stupid thesis...well now I'm here might as well have done them.

>> No.10754585

>>10754523
>leaving the house

>> No.10754741

Doing it now. Slowly...

>> No.10754810

that fucking feel when you can literally read anything you want after studying this stuff for a couple of months and no longer have to read translations that feel weird and can read it how it was originally written

this feel is so good and only gets better with more reading and studying

>> No.10754967

>>10754810
>tfw mediocre trash becomes amazing when you read it in Japanese because it's like an adventure trying to read it

>> No.10754998

>>10754967
>>10754810

stop teasing me so~

>> No.10755006

>>10754810
I want to be there

>> No.10755018

Not in the past couple of years. So many due...

>> No.10755062

No, I gave up again. I'm such a loser.

>> No.10755068

>>10754967
I think wise words like this should not be greened. Most people won't read them now, and that's a pity.

I learned English using fanfiction. It was free and about things I liked, so why would I have been picky? It wouldn't dawn on me how bad it actually was until much, much later. I haven't read any ever since, but I don't regret the time I spent on it, and now is time to repeat the process with Japanese.

Pixiv has a nice 小説 section and I'm already starting to browse it. Wish me luck.

>> No.10755331

>>10755068
Do you think people on Pixiv would have broken grammar like English fanfics?

>> No.10755765

I did 2000 reps today fite me.

>> No.10755795

Just finished them.

I must say, it is far more enjoyable to do it when you've built your own deck, rather than used a pre-made one. I am adding 5 words I encounter per day (may increase to 10), so it feels like I'm progressing in a direction useful to what I want, rather than learning endless words about business, trade, and other irrelevant topics, as I was before.

>> No.10755793

>>10755331
Japanese grammar isn't the clusterfuck of nonsense that is English grammar.

>>10755068
Bring back something interesting if you can.

>> No.10755827

>>10755793
>English grammar
English is by far the easiest language to learn. Jap grammar is weird, but well grammar isn't the problem in this case.

>> No.10755853

>>10755827

>English is by far the easiest language to learn.

Anon, please.

Because you learnt it as a child does not make it easy - that is your relative perception. English is widely regarded as a difficult language to learn (though there are harder), as the rules regarding almost anything are derived from multiple other languages, and there's no consistency in any field.

Japanese grammar is extremely simple, as it is particle based, and does not depend on word order. It is one of the least "weird" grammatical systems in modern languages.

>> No.10755861

>>10755827
>japanese grammar
>hard
>everything conjugates the same way

>> No.10755879

>>10755853
I did learn it at school like anyone else here. I'm not living in the USA nor UK after all. Well in school I was also forced to learn latin for a few years. And Latin was a real fucking pain in the ass.

>> No.10755881

>>10755861
Where the fuck did I imply that the grammar was "hard"?

>> No.10755896

>>10755879

Latin is a difficult language.

Part of the reason why it is dead.

>> No.10756138

>>10755881
In your post.

>> No.10762721

Which eroge should I read for practice?

>> No.10762733

>>10755795
I've tried that, but I just find myself spending more time thinking about what words I should add than actually studying or trying to read. And then whenever I want to read anything, I can't find the motivation because I know I'll have to look for words to add while reading. Have you figured out how to deal with these things?

>> No.10762745

>>10755879
While I've heard a lot of bad things about Latin grammar, I think the main reason you found English easier was that you're surrounded by it everywhere in the western world. Want to watch a movie? It will probably be in English with subtitles. Want to listen to the radio? You'll probably hear a song with English lyrics. Want to play a video game? Hell, I learned more English from the pokemon games than I learned in English class.

And in your childhood, your mind is especially adept at taking in language your surroundings. Probably why old people don't benefit as much from the influx of English language entertainment in the recent decades.

>> No.10762751

>>10755896
no thats fucking retarded. It's dead because rome fell 1500 years ago, hell it was used as a trade language for hundreds of years after that, not to mention that there are harder languages still in common use.

>> No.10762772

>>10762721
Something like Clannad

>> No.10762834

>>10762721
Flyable Hearts and Daitoshokan will work well.

>> No.10763225

>>10762733
>I know I'll have to look for words to add while reading

No. You don't have to. Don't. Just use a dictionary/translator like you normally would, and then once in a while you're going to see a word and think "I should probably remember that one" or "hey, I already know what that means". No point in forcing it.

>> No.10764234

>>10762745
>I learned english from pokemon games
How did you learn english from games written almost exclusively in hiragana?

>> No.10764256

Just read material that's slightly above your current level. You'll come across shit to add every other page depending on what you're working on.

When I'm playing Muramasa, I'll be racking up a good 30 words/kanji an hour at least.

>> No.10764377

What's the deal with kunyomi and onyomi? Is it really necessary to have two ways of saying one thing?

>> No.10764426

>>10764377
Yes.

>> No.10764434

>>10764234
Spoiler: Pokemon isn't released only in Japan.

>> No.10764448

How do you people usually go about learning kanji? Do you just stare at them until they're memorized? Write them down with their meanings and both pronounciations? I'm just picking it up and I don't know how to go about fittin t ito my brain exactly.

>> No.10764467

>>10764448
Come the fuck on, lurk a day or two on /a/ and you'll eventually catch a thread called ``Daily Japanese thread''. Read the info linked there and don't come back until you did.

PS: Yes, I'm mad. Just so you know, this question is asked by some faglet every. fucking. day.

>> No.10764473

>>10764448
泡
氵water + 包 wrap = bubble
makes sense.

包砲胞 are all pronounced ほう, so you basically already know one of the readings. All I need to remember is あわ.

Then I write it down a few times with that in mind. And with a word using that kanji too, if there are any.

>> No.10764478

>>10764467
Lurking /a/? But this is /jp/... Are you some kind of crossboarding faggot?

>> No.10764484

>>10764473
Thanks

>> No.10764695

>>10764473
the confusing part is that one means wrap, one means cannon, and one means placenta

>> No.10764705

>>10764478
うん。　あんたじゃない？

>> No.10764713

>>10764695
Seriously dude? 包+月 is a pretty obvious one.

>> No.10764812

>>10762733

I am at the level where I can read multiple pages until I find a word I don't know.

If you have to look up the majority of words, you should probably only add the most frequent, or seemingly useful ones.

Maybe add entire sentences.

>> No.10764897

>>10764812
How many words do you know?

What type of material are you reading?

>> No.10764916

>>10764897
Not the guy you're talking to but I know about 800 words (from my core2k deck, I probably know at least 1000 from picking them up while reading) and I can read a page or two of よつばと！ without looking up any words.

>> No.10764921

I'm around a month away from finishing the JLPT1 vocab list. Feels good.

>> No.10764924

>>10764921
Waste of time.

>> No.10764934

I would like to learn but I really don't have the motivation to do anything other than F5 and eat the bare minimum amount of food to stay alive.

>> No.10764937

>>10764924
Not really. I have 2 hours worth of public transits every day. So why not spend it doing vocab?

When I come home I do grammar and reading, so I have plenty of time.

>> No.10764938
File: 10 KB, 501x585, trustmegoi.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10764938

>>10764934
Do not worry gaiji- friend. Learning is a waste of time.

>> No.10764957

>>10764897

Difficult to say exactly how many I know. My old deck contained ~3000 words, but I didn't know all of them, and I knew a lot of words that weren't in the deck. Loan words make it more difficult to estimate, as you know the majority of those as soon as you grasp katakana. Probably ~5000 words, excluding obvious loan words.

Not sure exactly what I can read. I'm currently reading Yotusb& as well, almost everything I look up is a colloquialism, or proper noun. I read the Girls und Panzer manga, and mostly only looked up technical terms.

Walls of text defeat me, but that's mostly psychological.

>> No.10765000

>>10764938
But Japanese IS a waste of time.

>> No.10765053

>>10765000
Everything is a waste of time.

>> No.10765073

>>10765053
Anything that can higher your chances of getting a higher salary isn't.

>> No.10765112

>>10764957
Have you tried reading something other than manga?

When I read your post I thought you were someone that could read books like shin sekai yori easily without needing to look up anything for multiple pages so that is why I asked for your word level count and what you're reading.

>> No.10765114

>>10765000
>>10765053
Yes, Yes... Good goyi- guys. Living is a waste of time so just die... hehehehe

>> No.10765190

>>10765073

This is what wage slaves actually believe.

>> No.10765211

>>10765190
love is all i need for happiness - u

>> No.10765234

>>10765211
This is how wage slaves justify their fear of everything.

>> No.10765264

>>10765112

Not books. I would certainly have to look things up more frequently in them.

I've played games raw, and haven't used subtitles with anime in about 3 years, though.

>> No.10766233

>>10765264
It took you 3 to learn 5000 words? It makes me feel good to know I can literally learn 10x faster than someone. Thanks for the confidence boost.

>> No.10766269

>>10766233

7 years.

I learnt very casually for about five of them - back then, advice on how to learn wasn't as common, and 4chan was somewhat hostile toward learning Japanese, so there weren't communities on any board that had tried and tested methods. I didn't use spaced repetition at all.

The next two years I wasted on a pre-made deck. The first thousand cards I already knew, the next 500 were relevant, then it started to deviate. The deck was based on the most common words in newspapers, so there were all sorts of economic/social/business shit in there that I have never encountered elsewhere. I burnt out somewhat, as I was making no visible progress at all.

I finally have a good system, now, though, so I should advance at a more reasonable rate.

Sorry for the long post.

>> No.10766350

>>10766269
The few thousand most common words of any sort of text are common in every text.

>> No.10766384

>>10766269
>7 years
I wish I started 7 years ago.

>> No.10766398

>>10766350

As I said, it was based on newspapers, which are biased toward "serious" articles. 貿易 isn't in the 3000 most common words in reality, but in newspapers it is, due to business sections.

>>10766384

The best time to plant to tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

>> No.10766420

I refuse to learn using actual learning systems.

I think I will be able to read manga in about three years.

>> No.10766448

Guys... Is it possible to read F/SN knowing only ~1000 words?

>> No.10766463

>>10766448

Not without looking things up a lot.

>> No.10766464

>>10766448
It's possible.

As in, it's possible to run a marathon with one leg.

Not something I'd recommend.

>> No.10766473

>>10766448
It is possible to read ANYTHING when you have a strong grasp of grammar. Which is why grammar is the most important thing ever.

You will be looking up a lot of words though.

>> No.10766475

>>10766463
>>10766464
Is there any VN I could read now that would help me to be able to read harder ones like F/SN?

>> No.10766526

>>10766475
Take a look
http://tlwiki.org/index.php?title=VN/Eroge_Script_sizes

>> No.10766639

Has anyone read 未来のキミと、すべての歌に―? Would it be a good VN for a beginner?

>> No.10766811

>>10766475
Kikokugai would be a good start.

>> No.10767087

>>10766811
>2359 kanji
Are you rusing me?

>> No.10767105

>>10767087
Less than Fate/Stay Night.

>> No.10767112

>>10767087
You can't run from them forever, Anon.

>> No.10767121

>France Shoujo ~Une fille blanche~
>143969 lines of text
What the fuck? How long would this shit take to read?

>> No.10767125

>>10767121
It has Chinese in it too.

>> No.10767132

>>10767125
Why would they even?

>> No.10767139

Kanji stats says I have 1180 unique kanji in around 2.5k words. I think reading something fully voiced would be easy enough.

>> No.10767136

>>10767087
Stop being a faggot and become a true little girl by reading Albatross. Do you want to continue being a filthy hairy man that only knows ~2000 kanji?

>> No.10767160

That feelio when I only know ~300 kanji because I've focused mostly on vocab.

>> No.10767165

>>10767132
Something to do with the setting I think.

You did read the footnotes for it though right? It's closer to Clannads line size.

>> No.10767166

Maybe thats a stupid question, but how many reps would you do per day?

I currently have 3 decks. vocab,kanjis and listening comprehension. I do 150 reps per deck and then about 10-20 new cards per deck a day.
Thats at least 1 hour a day I learn with anki. (I also write down the kanjis so that takes some time)

>> No.10767186

>>10767166
Depends on how much you add, how smart you are, how you're answering the cards, etc.

Straight from the manual:
>If you are consistently learning 20 new cards a day, you can expect your daily reviews to be roughly about 200 cards/day.

>> No.10767240

Anyone here know 変体仮名?

>> No.10767272

>>10767160
Focused on vocab for what? 2 weeks?

>> No.10767309

I just finished my 100th kanji, it only took me 16 years. What should I do now?

>> No.10767315

This year will definitely be the year. I'll have all my past failed attempts to build on.

>> No.10767323

>>10767315
Once you can recognize words like "sugoi" and "onichan" you're almost there!

>> No.10767398

>>10767240
I know what they are but it's not like I have memorized them. Not very useful unless you're into calligraphy.

>> No.10768278

I'm going to start reading 男土下座地獄 tomorrow. What should I expect?

>> No.10768350

>>10768278
orz.

>> No.10768731

I am at the point where I have fun learning new shit.

>> No.10768778

>>10767309

lol did you enjoy them? coz the first 100 are simple

>> No.10768886

Is there any way to learn japanese without learning fucking kanji? They are so archaic and 1000s aren't worth learning.

>> No.10768890

>>10768886
>is there a way of reading English while being illiterate?

>> No.10768937

>>10768890
You seem to be doing a good job of it.

>> No.10769228

>>10768890
You are doing damn good, because you can know a language without reading it.

>> No.10769278

>>10768886
If that's your current mindset you should just give up. You'll have to grinding thousands of words after kanji.

>> No.10769323

>>10768886
You *can* learn the language without knowing kanji, or even kana, but it will be much harder, especially if you don't live in Japan, since you have to limit yourself to spoken sources only. You won't be able to go on Japanese websites, forums, play VNs and other games, books or manga etc. Why are you even learning? Skipping kanji is not a nice little shortcut to learning Japanese. They might seem scary right now, but once you get them down and start adding words to your vocabulary, you'll find that they help a lot.

Commit 100% or don't even start, because you waste your time.

>> No.10769354

>>10769228
>you can know a language without reading it.
leaving aside the fact that I wrote "reading", not "knowing", it's pretty obvious someone complaning about kanji doesn't want to just know the language, he wants to be able to read it for the otaku shit

>> No.10770250

Does anyone else have a boner for WWII military-like Japanese?

>> No.10770262

Anki is gay. Namasensei's folded technique works much better, for me at least. Does anyone make up games when they're studying? I like to pretend I'm a Wizard studying runes for magic spells.

>> No.10770323

>>10770262
Yes.

>> No.10770358

>>10770262
There are two big problems with having a list of words:
You know what to anticipate when you review since order doesn't change.
You don't really know when to review.

I think there's some anki plugin that adds rpg elements to reviewing.

>> No.10771026

>>10769278
Bullshit. You barely have to grind anything.

>> No.10771802

Is it a bad idea to do vocab alongside Kanji as you learn them?

I guess the worst that could happen is messing up the SRS thing in some way.

>> No.10771866

>>10771802
No, but if you are doing that you would be better off not having a kanji deck. You can just learn the kanji as you see them in vocab.

Though I do think it is good to have a start of ~500 kanji before starting vocab.

>> No.10771924

Nope. I haven't done any today.

>> No.10771929

Yes.

But I only started learning this about three weeks ago, so I don't have much to go over.

>> No.10772077

>>10771802
I did RTK + vocab grinding at the same time. But I think I had like 300 kanji down before I started doing that.

The downside, for me, was that I found adding words much more fun so I slacked off with kanji, which was pretty bad considering my goals.

>> No.10772566

>>10771802
>messing up the SRS thing in some way

Don't worry about that. SRS is a tool, not a goal in itself. You don't want a perfect 90% retention to maximize the efficiency of the method. You want a 100% retention. That'd be like worrying that reading Japanese on the side will mess up the SRS. It will, but that's the point.

>>10771866
>You can just learn the kanji as you see them in vocab.

The only advice I would give to people still wondering how to learn is to never bother with a "standalone kanji deck" and to start their vocab with 2000+ single-kanji words instead. Well, you can make it first 2000 out of 2500, you can add your 今日s and 気持ちs and the rest of extremely common stuff if you want. Just not before you memorize your 今s and 日s and 気s and 持ちs (and the last one not before you memorize 手 and 寺).

This is a simple and, in hindsight, pretty obvious idea, yet for some reason I always seem to be the only person to have figured it out.

>> No.10772580

私たちに下る定め

=

fate that will be given to us

or

fate that was given to us?

Or can it just vary based on context?

>> No.10772606

>>10772580
I don't know what you're reading but I'd translate it as

Our karma was lowered

Or something like that I guess...

>> No.10772669

Is Kana > RTK > core2k an ok plan? I'm 600 kanjis in rtk now...

>> No.10772690

>>10772669
do some grammar before/during core2k

>> No.10772700 [DELETED] 

Kana-only scum here.

Can you people write japanese, with proper stroke order and stuff, or just read it?

>> No.10772704

>>10772690
B-but AJATT s-said to just f-forget about grammar and j-just learn it naturally...

>> No.10772737

>>10772704
I'm pretty much doing the same thing. The only advice I can offer is doing some vocab while working on RTK. Just make a new deck and pick out words you want to study. I just watch to a lot of anime, and add new words I hear into the deck I made.

>> No.10772772

Odd question but I don't really know where else to ask it.

You know how some people pronounce the ``ga'' sound differently (in English pronunciation, it'd be close to the ``gna'' sound)? Is that an accent of some sort or just a simply different way to pronounce ``ga''?

>> No.10772777

>>10772772
Just go with this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgeA3t29qnE

>> No.10772780

Haven't done them in 6 months, no regrets.

>> No.10772782

>>10772777
No, no, I'm fully aware of what the normal pronunciation is, I'm just curious as to what that second pronunciation is.

>> No.10772786

>>10772782
What do you mean by "gna" anyway? As in Gnomes? or Guh-na? Gu-na?

>> No.10772793

>>10772786
Here's an example. In this case it's in 願い, too lazy to search for a better ``ga'' standalone example, but it's pretty much the same.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0nkjsIaHgt2

>> No.10772810

>>10772793
Sounds like a normal ねがい to me, to be honest. Maybe it's not as pronounced, but I wouldn't say it sounds like "gna"

>> No.10772823

>>10772793
>>10772810
Another example, same guy, he says it twice this time. The last one's pretty much a perfect example of what I'm trying to say.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1FeC4uh1TDt

>> No.10772845

>>10772823
I think this is the sound you're looking for:
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%BB%9F%E5%8F%A3%E8%93%8B%E9%BC%BB%E9%9F%B3

>> No.10774884

>>10772823
That sounds like a perfectly normal ga.
>>10772793
Here too, but it sounds a bit more nasally than normal.

>> No.10775251

>>10772566
Except what is the benefit in doing that instead of just learning words in common order? You still learn the kanji as you go, except you can just use it quicker.

>> No.10775263

>>10774884
>That sounds like a perfectly normal ga.
You're high as HELL if you think the ga in >>10772823's chiga is perfectly normal.

>> No.10775268

>>10775263
Your problem is obvious, you're using romaji. が doesn't sound like ga or gna or whatever. It sounds like が, you fucking idiot.

>> No.10775269

>>10775263
Maybe you just aren't used to hearing japanese?

>> No.10775273 [DELETED] 

Learning with anki is absolutely pointless. You will learn faster reading 2ch with rikaichan. You will learn doubly faster reading LNs with rikaichan.

Reading is always the fastest method to learn new words. Humans learn faster through context than autistically grinding individual words.

>> No.10775275

>>10775269
Actually, more specific possibility. Making you didn't realize that the word was "chigau" instead of just "chiga" so you thought the ga sounded funny because you weren't expecting the u?

>> No.10775283

>>10775273
I agree, although anki is almost necessary for rare words. You aren't going to learn a word easily through context if you only see it in context once a month.

>> No.10775288

>>10775268
>>10775269
I'm not even the other guy (he posted last night at like 4am). You're completely delusional if you think that's the normal pronunciation. It's super nasal and sounds completely different. Listen to any other person speaking and you'll hear what it's supposed to sound like.

Also, no. I watch all my anime raw and watch shitty j-drama. I'm not new to hearing Japanese or Japanese in general.

>> No.10775299

>>10775273
Using both is best. Read actual things written in the language and record words you dont know. Check back every once in a while and make sure ya didnt forget shit.

>> No.10775305

>>10775288
Well, it sounds normal to me. Or at least, normal for an anime voice. Maybe you're the one who is high?

>> No.10775341

>>10775288
You clearly are an idiot who has just started. Go find a pronunciation of 店員 or something if you think that is weird.

>> No.10775349 [DELETED] 

>>10775345

/g/ really is nasal...

>> No.10775345

Why is everyone arguing about the pronunciation of が? There's a whole fucking wikipedia section on this. Multiple pronunciations exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_phonology

>However, /ɡ/ is further complicated by its variant realization as a velar nasal [ŋ]. Standard Japanese speakers can be categorized into 3 groups (A, B, C), which will be explained below.

>> No.10775369

>>10775345
Sorry, to most of us who aren't linguists, that article is meaningless. And I'm assuming you probably aren't a linguist either but just linked it without really knowing what most of that means.

>> No.10775370

>>10775345
wow, everyone just got buttowned HARD

>> No.10775379

>>10775369
I've taken intro and morphology, enough to know how to read IPA and what ŋ means. And that's all you need to know to understand what it's saying there. Knowing that が is not always pronounced as /ga/ does not make you Super Japanese Expert.

>> No.10775385 [DELETED] 

Anime girls say it like 'chih-gauu'!

>> No.10775399

>>10775379
Ok fine. But even if there are different pronounciations, it doesn't say which one is "normal" and I assume most people just don't distinguish between them when they hear it.

Basically, just because that is one of two pronunciations of が doesn't make it a "weird" pronunciation.

>> No.10775407

>>10775399
I wasn’t the guy who was saying that. Obviously, he has not encountered (or more likely, not noticed) が being nasalized. That doesn't mean everyone should berate him as a moron who doesn't know anything. Everyone here has an ego the size of the sun.

>> No.10775418

>>10775407
>That doesn't mean everyone should berate him as a moron who doesn't know anything.
I think that's what he should expect when his first post is something like >>10775263

>> No.10776044

>>10771929
I've also started around three weeks ago but I always get a full 100 revisions a day.

Will it ever get lower? ;_;

>> No.10776069

>>10776044
Why would you want it lower then 100 per day? Do you plan on spending 10 years before you can read manga or something? I get 300-350 per day.

>> No.10776392

>>10776044
>>10776069
I get over 1000 a day... ;＿;

>> No.10776731

>>10776392
How long does that take you? I spend just over 30 minutes when I have ~200 due.

>> No.10776778

>>10776731
1-3 hours per day

>> No.10776930

Sometimes I just get so lost from long sentences it feels like I'm not even making progress at all and if anything it feels I'm back to square one being unable to read simple kanji or some shit. I've been starring at this one sentences for nearly 30 minutes and its not fucking making sense after breaking it down. Hell I even looked up some of the words with a J-J dictionary to see if the J-E is throwing me off.

I'm probably retarded.

>> No.10777040

>>10776930
You could try posting the sentence.

>> No.10777045

>>10776930
It happens. The best you can do is try to make peace with it or ask someone for help.

>> No.10777051
File: 109 KB, 386x244, 1364355758672.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10777051

How do I make learning Japanese as boring and simple as possible?

All of the methods that I've looked at seem so confusing since they're always suggesting that you try to have fun and practice by chiseling through fun things as you learn. I don't do well with that kind of learning. I need a series of structured and linear tasks that I can just push my way through.

Something like, "Do X amount of kanji and vocab reps each day. Read these text books. No fun allowed"

>> No.10777056

>>10777051
Learning Japanese isn't just "do this and you're done". It's something you do for your entire life, as long as you continue using it you're still learning. If using Japanese isn't fun to you, I have to question why you'd even want to learn it. Get to a point where you can use Japanese as you'd like (such as watching anime raws or reading LNs) and then do that.

>> No.10777066

>>10777051
What have you done before? Grinding kanji, vocab and sentences with anki is the most boring thing ever.

Do 50 vocab, 25 kanji everyday. You'll have no fun at all.

>> No.10777067

>>10777056

>I have to question why you'd even want to learn it.

I'm autistic and I enjoy planning out my days into a series of rituals and tasks which I strictly follow. There's currently a three hour productivity gap between the hours of 2:00PM and 5:00PM and those hours of unmanaged chaos are causing me mental distress.

I want to fill those three hours with Japanese studying because it would be useful to one day know enough Japanese that I could play some games that are unlikely to ever be translated.

If I can't sort Japanese studying into a structured curriculum then I'll never be able to integrate it into my daily rituals.

>> No.10777074 [DELETED] 

>>10775251
>common order

You mean random order.

You learn much faster because the things you learn are really simple.
You learn much faster, because you can see things as compositions of simpler components rather than a bunch of unintelligible scribbles.
You learn as close to what you actually need to learn as possible, instead of recognition of the general shape or distinct features of the kanji/word (which is ultimately what Anki teaches you). You're not going to get confused and have to relearn things later when another kanji/word with the same part at the same position shows up, for example.
You learn words much faster, because you can learn them as a sum of the meanings of component kanji. This also means you can start reading much quicker and much more efficiently, because you gain intuition about what the unknown word can mean from their kanji alone. (And you can read from scans, movies and photos just as easily as from text sources, because you can type unknown words into dictionary, kanji by kanji).

I could go on and on about this, but it's all already been said repeatedly, and you "I refuse to learn methodically, I want useful things from the start" fags won't listen. All things aside, this is just a way in which you can learn your "useful things" and not cripple yourself in the process.

>> No.10777166

>>10777074
You can start reading quicker by learning common stuff first because that's the stuff that shows up the most and you will be able to comprehend a higher percentage of text from the get go which means you can get used to grammar quicker and your reading speed will increase.

>> No.10777172
File: 112 KB, 600x534, Gyakuten_Saiban_5_gamebox.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10777172

How long does it typically take for someone to learn enough that they can fumble their way through a text based game?

Would one year of daily studying get me to that point? Of course I'm not expecting to be any where near fluent within that time, but where are most people after a year of studying?

I want to be able to play Phoenix Wright 5 and the Edgeworth games. Also, I desperately want to play the Yakuza 5 game that doesn't look like it will be getting a translation.

>> No.10777224
File: 1 KB, 377x32, g3g67y.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10777224

I'll do them now. Only a month left of suffering and I'll never have to do new cards on this deck ever again.

Can't wait.

>> No.10777235

>>10777172
Long.

>> No.10777244

>>10777224

Is CorePlus worth doing? I've always been wary of vocabulary grinding, but I need to start somewhere now that I know all the grammar. I naively thought I would try to read an eroge and make my own vocabulary deck from it, but it takes me forever to get through even a single sentence. Am I doing it wrong?

>> No.10777257

>>10777244
It's worth using until you hit JLPT2 at least.

I'm almost done with JLPT5-1 so at 7500~ words for now. I can read several pages of LNs with much effort.

>> No.10777258

>>10777257
without*

>> No.10777261

>>10777257

So I shouldn't waste time with a self-made deck, I take it.

>> No.10777266

>>10777261
Make a seperate VN deck after you hit that level of efficiency.

>> No.10777271

>>10755793
>>10755853

I think that the big issue with English is not grammar, which is not difficult, but the damn pronunciation.
It's simply absurd.

>> No.10777275

>>10777271

Do you really need to pronounce english, though? I've only ever used it for reading and writing on the internet.

>> No.10777277

>>10777224

How can I make anki show me the word written in kanji instead of the reading? It's the only issue I have with corePlus, I'd rather recognize every word in its written form and then remember its reading and translation than infer which word it is by its reading.

>> No.10777282

>>10777266
Why would you make it separate? That just seems pointless.

>> No.10777283

>>10777277
Not sure what you meant by that but this is my setup.

Front shows the compound without furigana and the sentence without its translation.

Back displays everything.

Go into the deck, Study Now, Edit and Cards...

Change Front and Back template to what's in the pastebin and save.

http://pastebin.com/XwQ9kWwm

>> No.10777294

>>10777282
The coreplus has continued vocab even after finishing JLPT1.

Unless you want to suspend all of those cards, it's better to make a separate deck rather than add new to the already clogged up deck.

>> No.10777305

>>10777283

Thank you.

One more thing, how do I reset a deck? I downloaded it some time ago but I never used it, and now when I want to set a card as "hard" it delays the next rep to 5 months. Easy is 3 years. I want to set it back to 1 day or so for hard cards and a week or so for easy cards.

>> No.10777331

Do any of you guys use Kanjidamage? And what do you think about it?

I've been using it to study kanji by making up my own mnemonics and I find it pretty easy to remember them using his method. I'm a bit worried tho that I'm not learning everything useful about them as the information on the cards is pretty bare boned based on his notions of usability and frequency they've come up at everyday language.

Seems like his method is a pimped up RTK with the meaning, radical and the one or two most used ON-yomi.

>> No.10777355

I'm through with kana and grammar but I'm still avoiding kanji... I just don't like the prospect of having to memorize two pronounciations (minimum) for thousands of characters. Like, what the hell? I don't even think I can do that. It's like learning kana on a step beyond dante must die mode.

>> No.10777371

>>10777355

You don't really need to learn kanji by themselves though. Just learn vocabulary written in kanji. After a while you'll be able to infer readings and meanings of new words based on the ones you already know. In other words, don't waste your time memorizing kanji, kunyomi and onyomi, you'll pick all those naturally if you learn vocabulary.

>> No.10777374

le viral marketing face

>> No.10777376

>>10777374
le NEET upset that his NEET threads got banned

>> No.10777383

>>10777376
No, I hated NEET threads.

>> No.10777386

>>10777371
>vocabulary written in kanji
You mean sentences with the furigana? Where would I find words with kanji I can understand?

>> No.10777681

>>10777166
No, you will start reading much later because in addition to learning much slower, you're learning a lot of things that are either redundant or simply useless when it comes to reading in particular.

Someone who knows a mere 750 kanji can read much more than someone who grinded the entire core2k deck. Because you may need to know that elevators are called エレベーター in Japan when you ask for one in Japan, but you don't need to know it to read it, it's just an English word. Because you may need to know that beef is called
ぎゅうにく to ask for some in Japan, but you don't need to know it to read 牛肉, 牛 and 肉 by themselves suffice. Because when you know what 汚 signifies, you don't need to learn 汚い, 汚す, 汚れ and 汚れる separately to figure out what they mean when you're reading. And so on, and so on.

And in addition to that, you'll be reading much slower because there'll be much more things you don't even recognize in addition to not comprehending, and because even checking things you don't know in dictionaries will take longer when you don't know kanji they comprise.

>> No.10778277

I've just started trying to learn Japanese. I've memorized all the kana, but I'm not sure which deck to use to start learning the kanji. Which deck is recommended for someone just starting out?

>> No.10778342

>>10778277
Your mom. Alternatively, you could try RTK1.

>> No.10778505

>>10777681
Do you have an Anki deck you'd recommend for your method?

>> No.10778722

>>10778277
Read the archive.

>>10778505
Do you even know what he said?
Go check the archive.

>> No.10778742

>>10778505
Not really. It's how I believe I should have learned, not how I actually did it, so even my own decks aren't any good for it. Hindsight, 20/20.

But I assume using one of the big vocab decks and selecting one word per kanji in RTK or KanjiDamage order (until you're out of them, at which point you can just continue normally) would work just fine.

>> No.10778870

I'm using memrise to help me learn Japanese, is this fine for starting out or are there better resources available? Seems to be doing a good job so far.

>> No.10779489

>>10777294
Why wouldn't you just download a JLPT1 deck and then add words as you go that aren't in there.

>> No.10779500

>>10779489
Because you're mom is dumb.

>> No.10779510

S-so how long did it take for you to know all the kana? I'm still struggling with them. Some arbitrarily take way longer for me to remember.

Also: Is there a list (or even a premade Anki deck) of words that are commonly spelled using kana?

>> No.10779514

>>10779500
>you're mom
>dumb

>> No.10779521

>>10779514
>>you're mom
>>dumb

>> No.10779527

>>10777681
If you learned 汚 you still wouldn't know how to read 汚い or 汚す. You would still have to look it up and learn the word. I don't see why you think learning 汚 by itself, which isn't even a word, would help you, since it's pretty fucking obvious what the meaning is based on the words that it's in.

>> No.10779539

>>10779489
A JLPT1 will feature a lot of words you won't care about or are unlikely to encounter, because it's intended to be general. Unless your goal is to actually pass JLPT (which is a joke anyway so I don't know why you'd bother studying for it), it's best to have a vocab deck of words you actually need/want to know.

>> No.10779569

>>10779539
Look who I'm responding to. The guy said to download the corePLUS deck to do the JLPT1 vocabulary.

>> No.10779575

yep 1000 reps in my kendo training

I'm exhausted now but atleast i'm fit

>tfw no gf to notice

>> No.10779584

>>10779510
About 4 days for each of the two sets. If you can't do it in two weeks, you should stop wasting your time.

>> No.10779586

>>10779569
I guess if you're planning on doing all of them then there isn't a lot of point. I personally like to divide mine up, though, in case I decide a deck isn't as useful as I once thought, etc, so I can drop it without losing all my cards or having to pick out the ones I want.

>> No.10779611

>>10754810
What materials did you use?

>> No.10779618

>>10779611
seconded

>> No.10779635

>>10779618
thirded

>> No.10779655

>>10779611
>couple of months
>anything you want

Bullshit.

I'd suggest just grinding a fuckton of words and then reading/constructing own sentences from the examples given from Tae Kim/ Genki/DOJG and then proceeding to sign up for lang8.

>> No.10779657

Why do people want to learn japanese?

I like the culture, and want to read books in Japanese.

But I don't like anime/manga much, so I'm probably in a minority on that.

>> No.10779663

>>10779655
Wouldn't it be better to use a "learn japanese" book?

>> No.10779662

>>10779657
VNs, Eroge, LNs. Being part of the raw reading elite.

>> No.10779679

>>10779663
That's essentially the same. It's important to create and form own sentences to get a general feel of the grammatical structure though.

>> No.10779689

>>10779679
What book should I use when starting out?

And how can I know if my sentences are correct?

>> No.10779692

>>10779655
lang-8 is pretty useless. Most people on there (from both sides) are completely incapable of giving meaningful and helpful corrections. Aside from the fact that being able to write Japanese isn't all that helpful if your only goal is to be able to read it, reading will be a more effective use of your time anyway if that is your goal.

95% of the people on there will gush about how great your Japanese is if you're capable of writing a sentence more than 5 words long, though, so if you want an ego boost go for it.

>> No.10779701

>>10779586
I don't understand what you mean by this. All you should have a vocabulary deck and maybe a kanji deck. What decks would you possibly want to delete?

>> No.10779713

Can one learn anything from going on 2chan?

>> No.10779717

>>10779713
Have you learned anything from 4chan?

>> No.10779721

>>10779701
The decks that I don't find useful to what I am doing. The point isn't to learn every word ever - that's ridiculous.

>> No.10779726

>>10779717
4chan isn't in Japanese 2chan is.

>> No.10779739

>>10779679
>grammatical structure
Not really that hard.

>> No.10779754

>>10779721
When did I say that? Why would you add decks that you don't find useful? Just make your own.

>> No.10779765

>>10779754
Well, I agree with you on that point. The only deck I have right now is the one I made myself. I was just saying, if for some reason you felt the need to use premade decks (like >>10777294 seems to) I'd rather keep them separate from my own deck so that I can drop it if I don't feel it is useful.

>> No.10779797

>>10779692
>being able to write Japanese isn't all that helpful if your only goal is to be able to read it

Enjoy not being able to seperate bad writing from good writing.

>> No.10779806

>>10779797
Writing stuff alone definitely isn't going to teach you what is good writing or bad, and (speaking from experience) neither will the correctors on lang-8. Hell, a lot of them won't even bother correcting basic grammatical errors. It's a joke.

Good writers tend to be avid readers, and there's a reason for that. Do you seriously think that everyone who thinks Natsume Souseki is a good writer (i.e., the vast majority of anyone who can read Japanese, and many who can't) is a practiced writer themselves? Learn to read the same way everyone else does - by reading.

>> No.10779835

>>10777271

The problem with English is 100's of years of bullshit and useless crap building up. Still, it makes it a very versatile language, if you already know it. If you don't, its horrible. If the rampant abuse of it continues, its going to become nearly impossible for anyone who is a native speaker to learn it.

>> No.10779856

>>10779655
Why is it bullshit?

There are people that don't even formally study grammar and can read just fine (AJATT). I recently saw another poster say that all he did was read taekim then read a lot of eroge (>>10771164). It should only take you a week to read through taekim too which is a lot less than a couple of months. On koohii forums someone said something along the lines that he read through a detective novel and found it more useful than any grammar book he read.

>> No.10779857

>>10779835
English is still an easier language to learn than Japanese.

>> No.10779866

>>10779856
Not the guy you are responding to, but I definitely feel like I learned way more by slodging through a couple Japanese video games and banging my head against a light novel or two than I did in 2+ years of university study.

>> No.10779868

>>10779857

No, it isn't. Japanese is very easy for English people to learn, but it does not go the other way. The only advantage non-english speakers have is that English speakers are just as shit at it as they are, so most of us are just half-assing our way through it.

>> No.10779882

>>10779510

Don't listen to >>10779584

It takes different people different amounts of time. Just keep at it. You'll get it eventually. Maybe you should stop using anki, and write them down 50 times instead. Learning the stroke order and the act of writing them out might help, because you'll learn the subtle differenced between them. Personally, I think Anki is a load of shit, but that's just me.

>> No.10779883

>>10779868
>Japanese is very easy for English people to learn
That depends on what part of it you're talking about. Learning kanji poses an insurmountable barrier for a lot of would-be learners. I'd also say a lot of the difficulty that Japanese speakers have in learning English comes from the way it is taught. Koreans have a similar grammar, but are generally far more English-literate than Japanese, by comparison.

>> No.10779889

>>10779882
>>10779510

I learned the kana in about a week without really meaning to. When I first got my pocket dictionary in high school, there was no romaji for any of the entries. As a result, whenever I wanted to look up a word (which I did often, because I wanted to know how to say everything) I had to flip to the back of the book where they had a kana table so that I could actually say the word. After doing that a couple hundred times, the pronunciations stuck. Actively utilizing the kana while you're learning them goes a long way.

>> No.10779898

>>10779883

Yes, but for many people, learning a new kanji simply becomes like learning a new word in English. And Kanji have the advantage over our words because they're distinct, our words are just the same things in different rearrangements. I know 海 and 命 because they are very distinct. English words don't have anything to set them apart.

>> No.10779909

>>10779898
Huh? Each word still has a shape to it. If you seriously think you read each word as a bunch of letters, you're insane. Adding on a bunch of unique symbols which frequently do not directly correspond to a pronunciation does not make a language easier somehow.

>> No.10779926

>>10779909

I can look at 私 and know exactly what it means. Obviously I can at English words and know exactly what they mean without even reading them, because I've seen them all billions of times before. But to someone learning the language and have to look at "Endorphins", it would be very hard.

>> No.10779962

>>10779926
>I can look at 私 and know exactly what it means
Because you already know it. If you didn't (like your endorphins example) you'd have to look up the kanji, something which takes more time than simply typing a few letters in like you would in English.

>But to someone learning the language and have to look at "Endorphins", it would be very hard.
No it wouldn't, that's ridiculous. You can still make a (fairly good) educated guess if you know anything about English pronunciation rules, and it's easy to type each letter in to look up the word. Far better than if you don't know the character for something, where you'd have to do specialized character lookup. And god help you if you need to write a difficult word in Japanese - in English, you only need to memorize the spelling, which has some guidelines to it. In Japanese, you must memorize each character.

I don't really see where you're going with this. It's true that each kanji has meaning and that can be useful when analyzing a new word or guessing at the meaning of a compound word, but English has the same thing with latin roots, if you want to go that route. Again, extra levels of complexity do not make things any easier.

>> No.10779976

>>10779962
You'll know how to pronounce endorphins but you won't know what it means, so only half the work is cut out for you.

>> No.10779998

>>10779976
You won't magically know 刺激 means the first time you see it, either. "stabbing extreme"? Sure, you can make some guesses (which you can in English, too, but setting that aside), but you'll have to look it up to know for sure. It isn't like everything is immediately apparent from what characters are used. Again, not to mention that there are well over 2000 of these that are used frequently that you must memorize.

>> No.10780040

>>10779998
You will surely get it right with 家内 though.

>> No.10780412

>>10779527
>If you learned 汚 you still wouldn't know how to read 汚い or 汚す
>it's pretty fucking obvious what the meaning is

Out of those two contradictory statements, the second one is correct.

Now a piece of trivia: Okurigana is not an integral part of the word. It's just a spelling and grammar tip. 汚い, 汚す and 汚れ are, ultimately, all written as 汚. By learning the kanji and its readings you're actually learning all of those words (sadly, you likely don't know that by that point). Now, I'm not telling people to learn all of them; not right away. I'm telling them to start with exactly one, and that this should ensure that a vast majority of the rest will subsequently become "pretty fucking obvious" to them. It's efficient like that.

>> No.10780438

>>10780412
Are you a native speaker? If not, how did you learn?

>> No.10780443

>>10780412
>I'm telling them to start with exactly one, and that this should ensure that a vast majority of the rest will subsequently become "pretty fucking obvious" to them.

How is learning a character and one reading any different than just learning a word? Your "system" makes no sense.

>> No.10780464

>>10780443
Learning a reading is far different than learning a word. If you don't know this already, then you know nothing of kanji.

>> No.10780484

>>10780464
>Learning a reading is far different than learning a word.
It's really not, at least not for single characters. If you teach someone that きたな is one possible reading for 汚, which means dirty, then you've taught them the same thing as teaching them the word 汚い. Ultimately, you're going to have to memorize the words no matter what you do. Why separate kanji study and vocabulary study when they are fundamentally linked?

>> No.10780738

>>10780438
>how did you learn?

Not the way I preach, unfortunately.

>>10780443
It's not and that's the point.

>> No.10780753

>>10780738
Well, what way do you recommend? Is there a book I should get?

>> No.10780810

>>10780753
I'm not a fucking Japanese expert. I just ground my kanji and vocab like everyone else around here until I decided I know, in hindsight, how to grind them more efficiently.

Do your reps and read a lot. It's going to work out sooner or later. Probably a bit sooner if you listen to me on this one specific point: >>10772566

>> No.10780873

>>10780810
Don't listen to this guy he is a fucking idiot.

>> No.10781118

I been doing RTK every day for almost 3 months and i'm at 1661 Kanji. What is a good number to temporarily stop adding Kanji? I want to refine the ones I have now for a little while and also it will let me relax a bit. I also ask because I wanted to start learning some vocabulary during this time.

>> No.10781137

>>10781118
There is no 'good' number. Just stop adding them now if that is what you feel like doing.

>> No.10781145

>>10781118
Wow, you must be going at a slow pace. You should've already been done with RTK. The maximum time you should even bother with that is 3 months.

>> No.10781157

>>10781145
Adding 22 per day, that's enough for me, I'm not really in a rush.

>> No.10783132

What is a good mature card percentage? I am hovering around 96%

>> No.10783418

>>10780040
You mean you saw that and immediately realized it meant "wife"? ;)

>> No.10783560

>>10783418
epic

>> No.10784512

>>10783132
How many mature answers have you given?

>> No.10784606

>>10784512
937 across 3 decks. I learned my kanji without anki so those three decks are core vocabulary, personal vocabulary (my selfmade deck), and grammar.

>> No.10784679

>>10784606
Well that's not very many. The percentage should drop some more over time.

>> No.10784786

>>10784679
I am asking what a good percentage is, I don't know if mine is good or bad.

>> No.10784887

How do I learn vocabulary? I want to read shit but I don't know where one word begins and another ends.

>> No.10785025

>>10784887
Well you should probably read tae kim or some other grammar guide a couple of times first then you should be able to pick out particles, words and conjugations pretty easily with practice allowing you to build vocab through reading.

>> No.10785141

>>10784786
I don't know either, but probably anything above 80% is good.

>> No.10785383
File: 462 KB, 864x2664, anki-stats-2013-04-22@22-42-39.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10785383

>tfw fucked up sleep schedule
>tfw anki keeps screwing you over since it only gives you 6 hours to do your reps + learning if you wake up at 10pm
>that feelio when you wake up to 230+ reps
anyone know that feelio?
pic related

>> No.10785429

>>10785383
you can change when anki thinks a new day is.

>> No.10785438

>>10785383
you can avoid this by, surprise, reading the manual and adjusting your settings for when you are being more retarded than usual.

>> No.10785483

>>10785383
If he you have 6 hours to do your reps, can't you just use the other 10 to do the next days reps and add cards then?

>> No.10786887

Didn't do them since one week, had a lot of work and no motivation but I'm coming back today.

Also, I don't understand why people bitch about kanji. In school I had to learn German. In German, words can be feminine, masculine or neutral. Depending of his gender, you'll use different determiner and make them agree differently. And you just have NO CLUE of the gender of a word, it's all by heart. I find learning kanji easier because they are more different from each other and it helps me memorizing.

I think French has quite the same problem : 2 gender and fucked up conjugation rules.

>> No.10786893

>>10786887
>had a lot of work
Well then fuck off and leave the board.

>> No.10786917

what's the fastest one could learn moonrunes, given that he were both truNEET and had the motivation to read untranslated eroge?

>> No.10786919

>>10786917
Rougly 2 or 3 days if you don't sleep, twice this time if you do.

>> No.10786933

>>10786917
I started learning Japanese less then 2 days ago and now I can read texts in Hiragana, even though only very slowly.

>> No.10786943

>>10786933
But do you actually know what any of it means?

>> No.10786958

>>10786943
Yes because I have watched anime for years and I know what all the words sound like.

>> No.10787001

>>10786893
I agree, go back to /a/. There are so many normal fags in these threads.

>> No.10787213

I miss anki 1

>> No.10788156

>>10787213
Why? There's nothing it did that anki 2 can't do.

>> No.10788195 [DELETED] 

>>10788156
It has this crappy round-everything-to-full-days scheduling that you cannot turn off and that people complain about even in this very thread.

>> No.10788201

>>10788156
Anki 2 has this crappy round-everything-to-full-days scheduling that you cannot turn off and that people complain about even in this very thread.

>> No.10788251

>>10788201
I still don't see what's so bad about that.
If you want do distribute your reviews throughout the day, just save some instead of immediately reviewing everything at once. If you want sub-day intervals for new cards, use the learning mode. For cards with longer hours a difference of a few hours won't matter.

>> No.10788567

How do I build up listening skills from pretty much scratch? I have been studying a while I know about 800 Kanji or so (just to give an idea of how far along I am) but my listening comprehension is pretty bad all round. Are they any good resources specifically for that?

>> No.10788573

>>10788156
no progress bar and not showing how many reps you'll do tomorrow

>> No.10788632

>>10788567
Just have something Japanese running in the background all the time. Helped me tremendously with picking out vocabulary and such. Anime/Dramas/Streams, anything works as long as there's a lot of dialogue.

>> No.10788800

>>10788567

Just listening to the language helps. Anime and games are ideal, as the studio environment makes it easier to hear. Listening to anything 3D is much harder.

Unfortunately, any kind of material designed for it doesn't really help, as the enunciation is better than reality.

>> No.10788941

>>10788573
Both of those are there.

>> No.10789005

Alright, so I've mastered all of the Kana after a few hours of practice, so I confidently made the decision to start kanji just a bit ago... and I'm a little overwhelmed. Is there a way to get the RTK deck to display stroke order? I'm not even sure if I should even bother with writing in the first place, but I'm not sure how else I'd go about it. Furthermore, the, uhh, (phonetic) spelling of the kanji is generally in hiragana, but it'll sometimes have kanji I haven't learned in there too. Could I have messed up a setting somewhere? Also, they seem to be starting with rather difficult kanji.

>> No.10789058

>>10789005
Disregard the difficult kanji thing. I accidentally had it set to random. Now it's giving me words like 口 and 日 and 月, which are a lot easier than the words I was trying before...

I'm still curious about stroke order and pronunciation though.

>> No.10789095

>>10789005
you should learn stroke order too

>> No.10789210

Why don't you just learn them in common order. Makes things a lot quicker.

>> No.10789314

Can anyone recommend me a good listening comprehension deck?

Tomorrow I will be finished with this deck: https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1465706065

Im searching sth which has about the same difficulty

>> No.10789334

>>10789314

Im sorry for my retardnes. I jsut saw that there are other decks from the same creaters as mine

>> No.10789341

>>10789058
Read the book? I seriously advise you to not just use anki for learning kanji. The stories in RTK help a lot when it comes to identifying radicals and such. He also shows you stroke order in it as well. Furthermore, download the font here to see stroke order inside anki https://sites.google.com/site/nihilistorguk/

>> No.10789361

>>10789341

thats exactly what I do. I use the book(pdf) to learn new kanjis with help of the stories. The RTK anki deck is just to repeat them.
you NEED the book for the story and stroke order. else it wont make sense to learn the kanjis with this method

>> No.10789364

>>10789341

I learnt all the kanji I know through spaced repetition of words in anki.

I can only sight read them, though. Can't handwrite more than a few obvious ones.

>> No.10789373

>>10789364
It's not a bad idea to write them out at least once. I feel it helps a bit when it comes to recognizing them.

>> No.10789375

>>10789373

My anki deck ask me for the english word an then I write down the kanji. Im done 500 kanjis now which I can nearly all write out of my head. helps a lot to know who you write them

>> No.10789380

>>10789375
That's definitely the way to go if you want to move to Japan. I'm just doing it to read, so I only write them down once. Afterwards, I just use anki to continue remembering them.

>> No.10789471

>>10789341
Thanks! That stroke order font was just what I was looking for. And I'll look into the book. Many of these early kanji are just variations on little squares stacked in different ways, so some mnemonics (or stories) would be very helpful in mentally differentiating them.

>> No.10789617

>>10772580
is given or will be given. Was given would be　下った定め

>> No.10789631

>>10772704
Okay in the small off-chance that you're not joking, here's the straight poop. You can learn basic grammar structures by slogging through hundreds of hours of content until your brain develops connections, or you can use the advice of people who have already simplified the connections between English and Japanese grammar and just read a grammar guide. Advanced grammar, sure AJATT method is a go, but for basic stuff, there's no reason to bust your nuts on something that you can do so easily to begin with.

>> No.10789655

>>10775399
>don't distinguish
Because I'm sure nobody could ever tell the difference between a South Londoner and a Valley Girl's pronunciations.

>> No.10789658

>>10789655
You should drop it, 99% of the people in this thread are completely retarded/new to Japanese with a super inflated ego. The fact that nobody knew about the different pronunciations of が until that one guy linked the wikipedia article is proof enough of that.

>> No.10789920

>>10789658
the only pronunciation of が is が

>> No.10789937

>>10789920
Perfect example.

>> No.10789953

>>10789920
This. Using romaji for anything is fucking retarded.

>> No.10789962

>>10789953
How should I pronounce は?

>> No.10789971

>>10789962
Don't you know? The only pronunciation of は is は。

>> No.10789982

>>10789971
That isn't a pronunciation. Apparently you are unaware of what one is and are making yourself look stupid.

>> No.10789996

>>10789982
I was making fun of >>10789920 but okay.

>> No.10790006

>>10789996
Sarcastic tones can be difficult to convey through text. The comment still applies if it were serious though and to the previous person claiming the same.

>> No.10790007

>>10789658
why would knowing that ga has a nasal/non nasal way of pronunciation matter if most people just want to read?

>> No.10790022

>>10789971
You are wrong, the pronunciations of は is は and わ

>> No.10790055

>>10790006
You learn it from listening to a native speaker. It's not hard dude. How did you learn to pronounce English?

>> No.10790071

>>10790055
What are you even talking about? All I am was saying that the character は alone tells you nothing concrete about a pronunciation. It could be said in any number of ways which is quite self evident due to regional dialects as pointed out previously.

>> No.10790085

The fuck is this bullshit about pronunciations?
It's not like anyone would care if you say suuuki or ski

>> No.10790111

>>10790071
Yeah that's why you pick it up from native speakers, like I just said. は is pronounced like は and not equivalent to any roman letters.

>> No.10790132

>>10790111
it's pronounced like わ too!

>> No.10790272

>>10790132
No it's only pronounced like は.

>> No.10790645

>>10790055

This does have a downfall in that hearing is a very deceptive sense.

Those Chinese whom have been in the West for 10 years, but are still completely unintelligible, believe they are speaking English clearly without even a hint of Chinese origin. Immigrants, with a degree of skill in the language, usually get a shock if anyone mentions their accent, as they are usually unaware of it.

Only a linguist can hear their own voice to any degree of accuracy, which is the origin of idiotic comments like "<regional dialect> has no accent!"

>> No.10790682

>>10790645
Okay so what's your method for learning how to pronounce exactly?

>> No.10790750

>>10790682

You cannot pronounce a language perfectly without years of specifically trying to do so. To do so would be to sound identical to the native populous - almost no one ever achieves this, and they'll always hear your accent. There's a difference between minor changes that make you sound foreign, but full understandable, and talking unintelligible garbage, though.

It is a good idea to learn about the sounds though, so you don't veer off on a completely incorrect tangent with them. This can even be a problem to the listener, as they're listening for the wrong sounds - が can be confused for な, つ can be confused for す, ら can be confused for だ, ん can be very confusing because it used different sounds depending on the sounds around it.

I used an assortment of websites about pronunciation, as there are many on the topic, beware, though, some of the "common knowledge" people, and even text books will tell you is blatantly incorrect. あ is not the same vowel as in "father", for example, that's an IPA bastardisation.

It is also an idea to learn about the pace of the language, and word stress, which are important in listening too.

You probably won't have a good enough ear to actually hear the sounds, yet, but try to remember what you've learnt, so you can distinguish when ready. You'll suddenly start hearing them, one day, but you may miss that if you don't know what to look for.

>> No.10790853

>>10790750
Actually Japanese is relatively easy to sound natural in.

>> No.10790867

>>10790853

Depends what you mean by "natural". It isn't easy to sound native in any language.

For example:

http://youtu.be/Vm4Wwc72CJs

He is completely understandable, but still sounds American.

Is it necessarily desirable to sound native, though? I don't think it is necessary. Get to a level where you're understandable, and not obnoxiously alien sounding, and it is enough.

If you're literally only want to read, even that isn't necessary, though I wouldn't recommend limiting oneself so much.

>> No.10790879

>>10790867

I bet he fucks many bitches in japan

>> No.10790904

>>10790879

ビッチインペニス

>> No.10790907

>>10790867
I said relatively easy, as in relative to other languages.

>>
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