Why is this the best thing that has come out of japan?

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Anonymous Wed Apr 3 19:28:14 2013 No.10701353 [Reply] [Original]

Why is this the best thing that has come out of japan?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 3 19:31:59 2013 No.10701356 My dick is the best thing that has come out of your mom. But so my post doesn't get deleted, this got pretty shitty by the end.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 3 19:32:44 2013 No.10701357 >>10701353 Because it's fucking awesome? Even Higurashi isn't nearly as good as Umineko in my opinion. Touhou is great, but its story isn't really as compelling, although it is nice how open it is.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 3 19:33:44 2013 No.10701358 Sakura Taisen is the best thing to come out of Japan but we never discuss it because English-only peasants.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 3 19:33:59 2013 No.10701359 >>10701356 >implying chapter 8 where every character in the story fighting a one big battle wasn't the best part of the story

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 3 19:43:44 2013 No.10701379 So /jp/ who's the culprit

>>	None !RikoOlevFo Wed Apr 3 19:51:14 2013 No.10701396 >>10701353 Heh. Good sense of humor.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 3 19:51:29 2013 No.10701398 >>10701357 Touhou has a story?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 3 19:52:29 2013 No.10701400 >>10701379 Some character's alternate pesona who counts as a different character except when it doesn't

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 3 19:53:14 2013 No.10701403 >>10701398 I has a number of loosely connected stories, yep.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 3 19:53:44 2013 No.10701404 >>10701403 It has*

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 3 19:57:29 2013 No.10701413 >>10701379 Meta? 1-5 Shannon-Kanon 6 Erika 7 I don't remember 8 Bern's game Batora and his family

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 3 20:01:59 2013 No.10701417 What's up with all these remote islands stories?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 3 20:03:44 2013 No.10701420 File: 64 KB, 320x250, 1293941202336.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10701413 It is me, kyrie, the real culprit!

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 3 20:09:44 2013 No.10701433 >>10701379 rosa

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 3 20:15:29 2013 No.10701444 >>10701417 I think it happened to be very popular book. You know, the one that kinda defines the whole mystery-genre.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 3 20:27:01 2013 No.10701474 File: 552 KB, 1011x1018, Lady_Maria1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] witch seacat wud u fuk? pic related, it's my choice

>>	None !RikoOlevFo Wed Apr 3 20:33:00 2013 No.10701482 >>10701474 I didn't like any of the characters, so none.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 3 20:36:15 2013 No.10701489 File: 138 KB, 413x408, Zep_a12_def1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10701474 Furfur and Zepar. 50% change to succeed. But magic is always about the risk >>10701482 Are you even a human?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 3 20:40:15 2013 No.10701492 File: 388 KB, 766x771, 9188668.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10701474 I want to be pegged by Erika while she mocks my small penis.

None !RikoOlevFo Wed Apr 3 20:41:30 2013 No.10701495

>>10701489
I found them all annoying and/or dicks. And I disliked the whole magic thing Umineko had going which means I didn't like the magic side characters. Erika or Bern might have thus been good choices for me but of course Ryukishi went out of his way to make them sadistic monsters because they were opposed to his message.

Anonymous Wed Apr 3 20:45:45 2013 No.10701501

>>10701495
I think ryu wrote most of the characters to be annoying dicks. I guess it is a curse of the ushiromiyas.

I still liked the fact that most of the characters were well written and seemed human. Even the meta-characters filled their role in the story. In that sense i don't find any completely bad character in umineko. However i understand if you don't like witches trolling the shit out of everyone, even if there was the effort to show the loving side of people too. Even eva that was total dickhead was shown to have multiple "layers" and wasn't just evil bitch. That is what i like about the characters

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 3 21:00:00 2013 No.10701529 >>10701495 0% love in this post

>>	None !RikoOlevFo Wed Apr 3 21:05:00 2013 No.10701539 File: 30 KB, 266x404, 11c5pg22e.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10701529

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 4 00:56:02 2013 No.10702286 >>10701495 I guess it's going to be a surprise to you, but humanity is mostly composed of varying degrees of annoying and/or dick.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 4 01:04:17 2013 No.10702302 No one has made anything nearly as good to compete.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 4 16:34:27 2013 No.10704800 >>10701474 Why would you do that?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 4 21:24:37 2013 No.10705835 File: 171 KB, 641x900, 20111205.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10701474 Siesta 410 and also the other Siesta sisters!

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 4 21:26:06 2013 No.10705846 i think i like the gundam style songmore then when they cry

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 4 23:11:07 2013 No.10706238 >>10701474 a great scene is when she fights and beats her own abusive mother shes in love with, we only get to see it in metaworld, but still amazing.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 05:25:32 2013 No.10707736 Touhou clearly, anyone who says otherwise is by all definitions, a faggot.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 05:30:16 2013 No.10707751 >>10707736 I love both Umineko and Touhou about equally. Just curious, am I a faggot?

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 05:30:47 2013 No.10707752 File: 51 KB, 247x237, 1358133484276.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10705835 fffIRRRRREEEEEAK THOSE THIGHS imagines dirty thoughts

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 05:43:46 2013 No.10707791 File: 33 KB, 400x400, i fucking lold.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10705846

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 18:21:20 2013 No.10709682 >>10701413 8 was george though. He also assisted shkanon in some of the other eps. there was a bit of red truth about how battler couldnt be a culprit or accomplice

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 18:44:40 2013 No.10709761 I'd play a doujin game based around the stakes.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:08:05 2013 No.10709844 >>10701379 The people who lived. It's always the people who lived.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:11:19 2013 No.10709851 >>10709844 Except when it's not.

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:11:50 2013 No.10709853
File: 121 KB, 847x313, tumblr_mdxa16BaNE1qk5qkyo1_1280.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I like how not believing Yasu to be culprit "forgets the heart" even though believing her/him to be culprit basically means she was batshit insane and killed everything she has ever loved out of childish hatred and expectations and making her just unstable and violent murderer and at the same time transforming the image of love inside the story into a spiral of twisted hatred and desperation totally going against the morals and lessons of the entire game
Hahah where is your god now yasufags?

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:15:19 2013 No.10709868 >>10709853 That's not it. I think you misunderstood something somewhere, because even if she's the culprit and did it deliberately, that doesn't make her "twisted."

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:16:19 2013 No.10709870 >>10709682 Nope, that was just Erika's twisted theory. The red about Battler not being the culprit was only said in episode 5, Virgilia can hardly speak of a Bern's game that took place later.

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:21:19 2013 No.10709889

>>10709870
Battler used the red about Kinzo from EP4 to prove that he isn't the detective in EP5. Doesn't that mean that a red, unless stated otherwise, probably applies to all games? Also, when I say "stated otherwise," I mean one that says it applies to "this Rokkenjima" or "this game board" or something specific like that.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:22:19 2013 No.10709897 >>10709868 Oh dear anon >the canon explanation about murderer with split personality killing entire family not twisted

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:23:19 2013 No.10709904

>>10709853
When someone tries to kill you, then forces you to wear a dress and live as a servant, then forces you to play witch for some crazy old pervert, I'm pretty sure that's more than enough justification for wanting to kill every asshole around you. Nothing childish about it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:23:34 2013 No.10709907 >>10709868 >that doesn't make her "twisted." >Yasu wanted to kill everyone in gruesome ways just because stupid 12-year-old Battler didn't keep a silly promise Uh-huh.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:25:50 2013 No.10709915 >>10709907 >implying George's bullshit isn't what pushed Yasu to the breaking point.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:26:05 2013 No.10709921 >>10709915 Can't we all just agree that george is fat?

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:27:04 2013 No.10709928 File: 82 KB, 640x480, 1362435000417.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10709904 >>10709907 >>10709915 But Yasu never killed anyone

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:27:19 2013 No.10709924 >>10709907 But she didn't, anon. In Rokkenjima Prime, she only wanted to play mind games with the family, to have a good laugh. Then Kyrie happened.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:28:04 2013 No.10709931 >>10709924 It's all fun and games until someone brings a lighter to your gasoline fight.

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:28:34 2013 No.10709929

>>10709897
>split personality
If you think this is DID you should recheck the symptoms of it. As for the rest, I guess so. But I still don't think it's twisted.

>>10709907
Their deaths actually usually weren't gruesome, a lot of the surprising stuff was done after they were dead. But it doesn't really matter. Hello, self-righteous person #23135234526. What's it like having your head in the clouds like that?

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:30:19 2013 No.10709938 >>10709928 I never said Yasu did, I just said they'd have a reason for wanting to kill someone.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:30:34 2013 No.10709939 >>10709928 What makes you think that? Oh right, I guess there was that one scene in EP8 that implies it... Is that what you're referring to?

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:31:05 2013 No.10709941 >>10701420 >>10709924 These guys know their shit Let's call it a day now and bask at the light of the people that have seen the truth

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:31:49 2013 No.10709944 >being so lonely that you make up imaginary friends to deal with the burden of life Shit, that hits kind of close to home.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:32:35 2013 No.10709947 >>10709921 Only if we can agree that Genji is the scum of the universe.

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:32:35 2013 No.10709948

>>10709939
Oh anon.
And back to Yasu, i guess it was at least semi-canonly (or in golden text of the creator, or something) at least heavily hinted to be answer to beatos boards. However, i can't just accept it:

1. It forgets the heart: umineko pictures love (expect kyrie, that chick is crazy) as a beautiful thing, not as something that forces you to kill.
2. Personally i find it hard to believe that Yasu would just flip, killing everyone in the progress. S/he was written more like a sad and tragic character
3. Episode 6: duel of lovers. Battler loses first. George wins. If we accept that the duel is "the heart" of yasu, wouldn't that mean Yasu truly loves george? Even more than battler? Doesn't that mean if we thin yasu to be culprit, he always kills the man he truly loves?
4. I always thought that yasu was more interested in the mystery-part in detective stories, rather than actual murders. He liked puzzles, not the blood.
5. When battler figures out "the truth" in episode 5, he immidiately forgives beatrice. Doesn't this kinda heavily imply that beatrice wasn't a mindless killer after all?
6. If we think about accomplices i find it hard to believe people like genji would actually go with mindless massacre. I guess nanjo is bribable as shown, but genji is heavily against incest, and imo murder is kinda worse. I think that at least genji would realize kinda quikly if yasu was going to flip, i think he was kinda watching over him since childhood
I guess all that. And i don't remember scene in ep 8, maybe you could share it with me so i could add some gasoline to my theories?

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:32:50 2013 No.10709949 Actually, my girlfriend is the best thing to come out of Japan (she's Japanese ;)

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:34:49 2013 No.10709951 >>10709948 And also 7: Shannon and Kanon believe everyone is resurrected in the golden land: doesn't that imply that the original goal was never to kill anyone but to fake their deaths?

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:38:49 2013 No.10709963

>>10709948
>find it hard to believe people like genji would actually go with mindless massacre.

You mean the man who totally ignored that Kinzo was raping his own daughter? And thought the best way to deal with incest baby being almost killed was to dress it up like a girl and raise it as a maid? And most likely started the whole 'Beatrice totally lives Kinzo' bullshit? That guy?

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:39:20 2013 No.10709965 >>10709949 By "girlfriend" you mean your hugpillow, right...?

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:41:05 2013 No.10709976 >>10709965 Pillows can't be girlfriends, silly

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:41:49 2013 No.10709973 >>10709965 I think he means his hand.

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:42:05 2013 No.10709977

>>10709963
But genji was never okay with it.
And he admitted kinzo was fucking nuts.
And wasn't it told in one of the episodes that Yasu was hid as a maid in order to stop further incest but be still placed alongside the family?
I guess he isn't perfect person. He has strong sense of honor as a servant so he probably went along with some of the bullshit in order to act his role as a butler

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:42:35 2013 No.10709978

>>10709941
The EP7 Tea Party was only "truth of a sort," not THE truth. Also even in that Tea Party, wasn't it the case that they simply found the gold before she could do anything?

>>10709948
1. It doesn't forget the heart. Did we read the same EP6 or what? The trials were presented in -exactly- this way.
2. She didn't flip. She made a decision. Contrary to popular belief, not every killer just suddenly went batshit insane.
3. I don't know if that means George is the "true love" or not, but with the way the entire story was centered around Battler, I'm inclined to believe that isn't the case. Especially with the way Battler always seemed to live till the end. But still, I don't think her killing George necessarily violates this in any way.
4. This much seems to be right, but it doesn't mean she would never use them that way.
5. This implies that regardless of whatever happened, he does love her.
6. She didn't tell all of them the full story.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:43:34 2013 No.10709982 >>10709951 This Anon knows what he's talking about.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:45:05 2013 No.10709993 how the HELL did they mask the sound of the shotguns anyways

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:47:34 2013 No.10709997 At this point can't we all just admit that Umineko is a terribly written story full of plot holes and shoddy characterization?

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:47:49 2013 No.10710000 >>10709993 The same way no one ever gets wet while walking outside in the middle of a typhoon

>>	Freezing !BASARADtDc Fri Apr 5 19:48:19 2013 No.10710002 Ended terribly

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:48:49 2013 No.10710006 >>10709997 You're free to think this if you want, but in my eyes it is the complete opposite. >>10710002 I also very much liked the ending.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:49:19 2013 No.10710008 >>10710002 I like to pretend that it ended at the end of EP5.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:51:19 2013 No.10710015 >>10710008 I thought it was "hip" to hate chiru. This guy here liked episode 5 but not 6 that was mostly the same shit. I however understand if you don't like 7 and 8 because they broke the common body of the story

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:51:19 2013 No.10710019 >>10710008 Pretty much this. >>10710006 >You're free to think this if you want, but in my eyes it is the complete opposite. Mind explaining how it's so brilliant, then?

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:53:19 2013 No.10710029 Why does everyone hate Episode 8?

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:54:34 2013 No.10710032

>>10710019
"Brilliant" is entirely a matter of opinion. Nothing is objectively brilliant. We simply don't agree. It's okay to not agree.

>>10710000
This was specifically acknowledged by the author in an interview as an intentional hole, but still, I don't think there are any others.

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:56:49 2013 No.10710046

>>10710019
Ryu is a shit writer. If we forget the pacing i find it hard to find many negative things to say about the quality. Characters were interesting, realistic and multi-leveled. Some people hate the story for not giving the exact answer but i find it one of the best things in seacats, because we can have all this bullshit speculation about the real killer and motives and therefore the story lives on long after it was finished. If you don't see anything beautiful in that maybe you should stick to harem VNs with generic characters and unoriginal plotlines

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:57:49 2013 No.10710050 >>10710015 5 and 6 were completely different what are you on about

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:58:49 2013 No.10710054

>>10710015
>I thought it was "hip" to hate chiru. This guy here liked episode 5 but not 6 that was mostly the same shit.
>liked episode 5 but not 6 that was mostly the same shit.
EP5 had a good setup for the Chiru arc but EP6 totally destroyed whatever quality Umineko had because Ryukishi's Mary Sue self-insert Featherine was in it. Don't get me started on the part when he said that he more or less hated his own readers. Also, Ange is a terrible character because most of her characterization is nothing but whining about how awful her life is.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 19:58:49 2013 No.10710056 >>10710029 >everyone More like vocal minority.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:02:04 2013 No.10710079 >>10710054 Featherine barely had any role. He never said he hated his readers. And Ange isn't really that bad. She had her stupid moments, but she had cool ones too.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:02:20 2013 No.10710073 File: 240 KB, 1024x768, 1363987914191.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10710054 You don't like whiny characters, anon-kun?

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:05:49 2013 No.10710089

>>10710079
I generally disagree with ep 6 being shit (and one does not simply hate featherine that is simply one of the most dickheadish rich fucktard characters written in the entire story) but with ange... I admit ruy spent lots of time to write her character, but i had hard time being interested because i honestly didn't care shit about ange. To me she was always shitty deus ex- character that just fell trough the roof at some point of the story and was just in the way all the time

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:11:20 2013 No.10710106 File: 212 KB, 1000x722, 1362476101963.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10710054 I heard you didn't like Featherine What

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:17:49 2013 No.10710129

>>10710046
>Characters were interesting, realistic and multi-leveled
Stopped reading there. The only characters that get any real development in the story are Battler, Beatrice, and Kinzo. Some of the supporting characters (the parents, the cousins) were interesting but were never really expounded upon--any sort of development felt forced and half-assed--and I didn't care about them. Gaap, the Siestas, the Stakes, Dlanor&co., Ronove, Furfur, and Zepar become completely useless after the episode in which they're introduced.

>captcha: repist costumes

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:24:34 2013 No.10710152

>>10710079
I'm pretty sure Featherine has a big speech about how she hates the kind of people who read a mystery novel without trying to solve it at all and demand to have an answer spoon fed to them so they don't have to think, and it was taken as Ryu shitting on certain readers.

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:25:20 2013 No.10710157

>>10710129
Hm. The only part of your post that I somewhat agree with is this:
>Gaap, the Siestas, the Stakes, Dlanor&co., Ronove, Furfur, and Zepar become completely useless after the episode in which they're introduced.
I didn't think it felt forced when any of them received development. On the other hand, Genji is the main one who basically has no real development. He has some backstory details, but they're only really about his relation to Kinzo.

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:25:34 2013 No.10710158

>>10710129
But Battler and Beatrice weren't even the best written characters. The rokkenjima-prime characters were the pillar of the story. I am just going to assume you have read entire story and tell you that meta characters aren't supposed to be "full characters" as people like beatrice, gaap and furfur&zepar were only parts of the mind of the killer that you had to combine to get the entire charasteristic (beatrice for example being metaphor for hatred, therefore not complete individual as a character)
And for some of the meta-characters, i have to agree they weren't realistic and multi-leveled, but being realistic wasn't the point. Characters like Will and Erika can be labeled only as "plot devices", but they fulfill their part of the story and their purpose. Erika for example is written to be antagonist, and she nails the role perfectly by being unlikable and bitchy to extent she cannot even be called humane. If the fact that "real" characters were well written and "plot devices" fill their part in the story isn't good writing, then i don't even want to live on this planet anymore

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:29:20 2013 No.10710180

>>10710158
But we barely saw any "rokkenjima-prime" at all, period. What do you mean by that?

Also, Beatrice isn't just pure hatred. She is a -lot- more than that.

Also Erika is very likeable. I loved her character.

>the fact that "real" characters were well written and "plot devices" fill their part in the story
Afraid I don't know what you mean by this.

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:31:05 2013 No.10710189

>>10710180
Oh, I think I get it now. So you're interpreting the story that way. That's actually a pretty good way to interpret it, I suppose.

I still don't like to think that Beatrice, Shannon, Kanon, and the others are nothing more than metaphors though. Nor are they "split personalities."

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:35:19 2013 No.10710206

>>10710180
The "real" characters are people that really exist. The Ushiromiya family minus Kinzo, Nanjo, Kumasawa, Genji, Yasu, Gohda. These people were real living people that the events happened to.

The "meta characters are those like Gaap, Zepar/Furfur, Siestas, Stakes, etc. They were never actual living people, they're used to represent objects or ideas. The Stakes and Siestas represent murder weapons, Zepar/Furfur represent Yasu's internal conflics on gender identity and love, and so on.

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:36:34 2013 No.10710210

>>10710180
>But we barely saw any "rokkenjima-prime" at all, period. What do you mean by that?
Maybe bad choice of words but basically anything that wasn't part of the gameboards. We had kinda lot of that, things like relationship of Maria and Rosa, childhood of Kinzo and progress of George and Shannon to bring up few of the longest parts
>Also, Beatrice isn't just pure hatred. She is a -lot- more than that.

She basically consists of two characters: trollwitch and moetrice
>Also Erika is very likeable. I loved her character.
Hah, so did i. But she is clearly written to be an asshole
>Afraid I don't know what you mean by this.
Well to be more exact that the "real" characters were realistic and had more development and in-depth-analysis than the witches and such, that were mostly there to fulfill their part of the story. For example, siesta sisters that i always though were members of the rabbit band, but ryu later stated that they were metaphor for the guns. Therefore a character that is basically a gun doesn't call for amazing amounts of character development, as her part is to show up and shoot people. Therefore i can say "plot devices" fill their part in the story

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:39:49 2013 No.10710224

>>10710210
The Siestas represent both the rabbit band, but also murder weapons, mostly the winchesters. "Siesta" is actually the incorrect romanization of their name, it's supposed to be "Chiester" giving a better hint towards their role as the guns. Ryu made sure that when the fighting game was made they displayed their names correctly as Chiester.

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:40:35 2013 No.10710228

>If the fact that "real" characters were well written and "plot devices" fill their part in the story isn't good writing, then i don't even want to live on this planet anymore.
Just because only one part of the story was good does not mean the entire novel was "well-written."

Umineko had serious pacing issues, a terribly boring and excessively long narrative that treated the audience like goldfish (seriously, dude--you don't have to take over half an hour to explain Hempel's Raven!) and there were too many characters in the cast to keep track of. Ryukishi could have shaved it down to a dozen characters only and most of the story would have been left intact.

>inb4 muh metaphorical characters

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:42:19 2013 No.10710237 >>10710224 I always wondered how they can represent both? They have basically no connection at all. Maybe Yasu pulled story of rabbit-band out of Maria's stories and that somehow mixed with her delusions?

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:43:34 2013 No.10710245

>>10710206
...Wait, so you think the servants didn't exist? What on earth? Please explain why you think that.

>>10710210
Hm... And why are they the pillar of the story? Just asking.

Trollwitch is also a lot more than just pure hatred.

I'm not too pleased with the way these characters are being treated as worthless aside from their role in the story...

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:45:49 2013 No.10710251 >>10710245 What in my post makes you think I'm saying the servants don't exist? I lumped them in to the real characters because they actually existed. They were there with the family

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:47:19 2013 No.10710262

>>10710228
Sadly, i can't argue with that because all of those are issues that umineko had. I didn't mind. Boring episodes were important for character development and made a huge contrast for the awesome parts where something really happened. Of course, they could have been more compact (i mean i never asked to read hours and hours on krauss and moon-tourism) but those can be only explained as ryu being shit writer, as i stated before.
I can easily see why you wouldn't enjoy story with issues. To me, i loved seacats even with all the obvious issues. To me that is a great example on how overall story beats shitty writing.
>inb4 muh metaphorical characters
>3deep5u
I don't understand how anyone could hate this kind of characterization

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:47:50 2013 No.10710265

>>10710228
I don't know what you mean by pacing, since I've never thought about such things when I read a story. I also didn't find the narrative boring or excessive. I do think that Hempel's Raven could have been explained a little better, but it basically got the job done. And you're right, a dozen may have been enough. I wonder what kind of story that would have been.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:48:19 2013 No.10710269 >>10710251 But what about kanon who NEVER EXISTED

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:48:49 2013 No.10710270 >>10710251 I think your "minus" confused me. But okay.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:51:34 2013 No.10710289 >>10710270 oh sorry, I can see how that could have been confusing, I was just saying minus Kinzo because he's been dead for a while, but the others were there, yeah >>10710269 I never implied Kanon was real, that's why I listed Yasu instead

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:51:49 2013 No.10710290

>>10710245
I consider them to be the pillar of the story because entire story was built around them. We get all these metaphorical witches but the 18 or 17 or 16 or what characters are present all the time and ryu actually had effort to make them humane, that can't be said about for example stakes, because they... actually... weren't humans, but... stakes.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:52:49 2013 No.10710296 >>10710269 Kanon did exist, fuck your shitty ass.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:54:49 2013 No.10710306 File: 764 KB, 400x362, brokastel.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10710296 hahah excuse me?

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:56:34 2013 No.10710311 >>10710306 I didn't say he existed physically. But that doesn't mean he didn't exist period. Why don't you have any imagination?

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:56:49 2013 No.10710313 >>10710262 >I don't understand how anyone could hate this kind of characterization The side characters (like the Siestas) honestly add jack shit to the theme or the story and ultimately serve to be pretentious.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 20:56:49 2013 No.10710315 File: 26 KB, 596x174, OHDESIRE.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 21:02:04 2013 No.10710330

>>10710313
>(like the Siestas) honestly add jack shit to the theme
I thought magic was the theme. In that sense i can kinda see magic rabbits going with the theme
>ultimately serve to be pretentious.
What in this postmodern society isn't ultimately pretentious?

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 21:02:19 2013 No.10710326 File: 98 KB, 500x339, tumblr_lqv6pwrETO1qiwdov.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10710311 Imagination? I don't give a shit about delusions of a sad individual

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 21:03:35 2013 No.10710334 >>10710326 Oh look, it's one of these guys who actually boasts about their lack of imagination.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 21:04:35 2013 No.10710339 >>10710334 Term is intellectual rapist Not that any of you would have heard of

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 21:04:35 2013 No.10710340 >>10710313 >pretentious I do not think you know what that word means.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 21:09:19 2013 No.10710348 Worst VN series. I would sooner smash my own dick with a hammer than re-read that dreck.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 21:31:49 2013 No.10710441 >>10710339 In this case, that only applies if the secret you're trying to expose is actually of a mundane nature like you think it is. And anyway, if I say that Kanon really did exist in a non-physical way, that's a devil's proof for you.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 21:36:19 2013 No.10710465 Clearly Yasu was a Cantus user.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 21:37:19 2013 No.10710469 >>10701495 You suck. also, you have decided that they are "sadist monsters", not ryukishi

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 21:43:04 2013 No.10710480 Can shiki kill witches

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 21:43:35 2013 No.10710478

>>10709853

There is no "message of umineko". Ryukishi does not force you to accept one true interpretation.It's all up to you and how you judge/perceive.

"Enlighten the darkness, oh desire" is the true message of Umineko, in my view of the story. but you may draw a different judgment.

that being said, I love how some people keep justifying Yasu while at the same time calling for example kyrie a "monster"

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 21:44:19 2013 No.10710487 >>10710480 It'd be hard to kill something that doesn't exist.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 21:47:04 2013 No.10710497 >>10710487 hasn't stopped him yet.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 21:50:19 2013 No.10710511 >>10710480 She smells

Anonymous Fri Apr 5 21:55:20 2013 No.10710533

>>10710465
What's Cantus?

>>10710478
I love all of them, and never "justified" any of them, nor do I think they need any "justification." I don't call any of them a "monster." It takes a lot more than that for me to think a character is twisted. For me, a "monster" is an extremist self-righteous faggot, like those guys who think "right" and "wrong" actually exist. I'm glad there aren't any of those in this story.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 5 22:04:20 2013 No.10710561 >>10710478 Isn't that another way of putting "Without love, the truth cannot be seen"?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 09:34:47 2013 No.10712246 >>10710533 >what is cantus >missing the best show of the last season

Anonymous Sat Apr 6 09:45:03 2013 No.10712267
File: 291 KB, 746x800, 7e667db83d9e13a5b2fd8ae71c3f9852.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10710054
>Don't get me started on the part when he said that he more or less hated his own readers.

This children of man is so mad, he's still mad two years later. Poor goat.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 09:47:02 2013 No.10712273 >>10712267 I like how people misuse term goat

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 09:50:17 2013 No.10712283 File: 246 KB, 750x750, 883120d5e8474b8b8ceb6d813c8c6895.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10712273 A goat is an Umineko faggot. That's all.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 09:52:32 2013 No.10712292 >>10712283 I like how people misuse term faggot

Anonymous Sat Apr 6 09:59:02 2013 No.10712310

>>10710478
But kyrie is written in an exactly same way as takano from higurashi

Ryu uses this kind of characterization as a kind of an scapegoat, and even if the story would be about love or the ultimate goodness of humanity we can suddenly have this psychotic bitch

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 6 22:23:47 2013 No.10714849 >>10701357 >Even Higurashi isn't nearly as good as Umineko But you didn't actually read Higurashi. Nobody did...

None !RikoOlevFo Sat Apr 6 22:43:02 2013 No.10714919

>>10709948
Read Our Confession. It confirms that Yasu was insane and fully intended to murder everyone and blow up the island. Yasu had bribed the servants to get them to help him but had lied to them and told them that the murders would be faked (they didn't know that he planned to kill them for real).

And Episode 7 presents Yasu as being desperate, feeling cornered, on the edge and with nothing to lose. And the fact he has a ton of imaginary friends when he's at least 19 and has intense self-loathing due to his mutilated genitalia and gender dysphoria doesn't make him a paragon of mental health either. So this desperate, half-crazy individual is driven to... play a fake murder mystery game? Battler wouldn't have found Yasu's decision so tragic if he was merely playing a prank on him. The whole point of Kinzo's behavior, which Yasu was aping, was that he was truly risking the lives of his entire family by flipping the switch to force a solution.

Anonymous Sat Apr 6 23:05:02 2013 No.10715011

>>10714919
>Yasu was insane and fully intended to murder everyone and blow up the island
Yes. She hated almost everyone after all. But the situation was already tragic even without the island blowing up. There was no love between the siblings, Joji was a loser, the whole Kinzo thing was driving Krauss and Natsuhi crazy, Maria was autistic... No wonder she wanted to blow everything up.

Btw, Hideyoshi and Eva are accomplices in the first game. They didn't realize that people were actually dead, though.

None !RikoOlevFo Sat Apr 6 23:08:48 2013 No.10715020

>>10715011
A saner response would have been to take the money, kick the family off the island and try to live a life of luxury. Of course Yasu was too fucked up and with too many hangups to do that. (Yasu didn't have everyone. He loved Battler, George and to a lesser extent Moon-chan.)

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 00:49:17 2013 No.10715354

>>10715011
I know you guys just love to treat Beatrice so poorly, but the least you could do is admit that she and Maria were close friends and that Maria was one of the only reasons she lasted as long as she did, instead of acting like "Maria was autistic" is one of the things she was worried about.

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 01:46:33 2013 No.10715477

>>10715011
Yasu harbored a lot of hatred for the people around her, but she didn't decide to kill them because she hated them. She was trying to make everyone's problems go away, but was going about it in a less than sane way.

I agree that people who argue for the fake murder mystery don't grasp how much Yasu truly hated herself and how desperate she was. When you "understand her heart" (as cliche as that is to say at this point) it doesn't make sense.

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 02:54:19 2013 No.10715706

I would like to know what you all think of the furniture complex thing in Umineko. I'm already aware that it seems at least partially linked to the disfigurations from the fall, so please try to talk about other possibilities if possible. Somehow I just don't think that covers it that well.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 04:10:03 2013 No.10716425 >>10715706 It's a reference to Yasu losing her dick as a baby but being raised thinking she's a girl, so she's neither properly male nor female and therefore views herself as a disgusting subhuman. It's not really complicated.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 04:54:18 2013 No.10716768 >>10715706 that's easy? fake personalities=furniture merely serving the "master brain", beatrice

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 04:58:49 2013 No.10716787 >>10714919 >he I wish you shut up even if she was born with a dick she lost it when she was a baby and din;t even know about it how's that male?

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 05:18:48 2013 No.10716873 >>10716787 The thing is that nowhere does it ever confirm that Clair/Lyon was born male. There's a number of things that make it look a bit unlikely, but from what I can tell there is really nothing that even begins to confirm it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 05:32:18 2013 No.10716927 >>10716787 Natsuhi does say "the man from 19 years" ago though.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 05:36:33 2013 No.10716943 >>10716927 I thought she only said "I couldn't tell whether the voice on the other end was male or female." I don't remember how she ended up referring to them as male.

None !RikoOlevFo Sun Apr 7 06:40:33 2013 No.10717145

>>10716943
Maybe she had looked at the baby and knew it had a penis. And Ryukishi said in an interview that Shanon has fake breasts, which makes sense if Yasu was a eunuch. And it explains the gender dysphoria better than if he was simply a woman with a crushed vagooo. And Willard calls Lion 'botchan'

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 06:50:48 2013 No.10717179 >>10701489 by that you mean 50% chance to get the dick and win, right? for me it's just zepar. furfur is nice and all, but i just like blue more. unless they both have dicks, then i'm ok with both at once.

>>	None !RikoOlevFo Sun Apr 7 06:53:19 2013 No.10717188 >>10715706 I think that in China eunuchs were referred to as furniture in some time periods. Yasu probably took the term from there.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 07:01:03 2013 No.10717198 >>10710054 >Also, Ange is a terrible character because most of her characterization is nothing but whining about how awful her life is. so, she was a truneet? i wonder if she posts in /jp/'s neet threads.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 08:18:04 2013 No.10717365 >>10717198 not every whining faggot is trueneet

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 08:18:20 2013 No.10717362

>>10717145

for fuck's sake, get your facts straight
eunuch=penis no balls

yasu MIGHT be called transsexual but that's hardly proper given her "transition" was shortly after birth.

also, mind that she was born from closely incestuous relationship and that she wasn't born neither male nor female.
girls being born with "usless" additional balls or penis or boys being born with a vagina is more common then yo think
the reason these people are almost non existent is because in that case gender is usually decided by parents at birth

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 08:20:49 2013 No.10717369 >>10717362 *it's possible that she was born neither male or female

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 08:27:50 2013 No.10717396 >>10717365 but every truneet is a whining faggot

None !RikoOlevFo Sun Apr 7 08:32:20 2013 No.10717401

>>10717362
Perhaps you shouldn't call people out when your "correction" is wrong. Chinese eunuchs had both their penis and testicles removed.

And Lion appears to have no angst regarding his gender so he must have been born normal rather than some bizarre hermaphrodite.

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 11:03:21 2013 No.10717895

>>10717401
Also, it would make no sense that Yasu looks to Lion as a version of herself without any of her problems if the gender dysphoria was inborn. It's essentially stated her gender crisis originated from the injuries from being chucked from the cliff.

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 11:07:20 2013 No.10717906

>>10716943
Natsuhi only says she is not sure until the man from 19 years ago identifies themselves. After that she does not question that they are a man and calls them man repeatedly. To the point she is relieved when she hears Erika is a girl because that means Erika cannot be the caller.

Also think for two seconds why Yasu would present themselves as a man when speaking to someone who knew her before she was injured.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 12:57:05 2013 No.10718383 Can someone give me a power level ranking?

>>	None !RikoOlevFo Sun Apr 7 13:23:25 2013 No.10718487 >>10718383 http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Power_Levels

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 16:12:51 2013 No.10719166 >>10718487 So Bern pretty much the best then.

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 16:20:36 2013 No.10719189

>>10718383

Here's mine (the only one)

Featherine Augustus Aurora = Ange Beatrice (EP.8) >>> Lambdadelta > Bernkastel >> Beatrice = Endless Sorcerer Battler = Erika >> Eva Beatrice > Dlanor A. Knox = Willard H. Wright > Maria = Virgilia = Ange Beatrice >>> Goldsmith Kinzo > Zepar > Ronove > Gaap > Furfur > Chiester 00 = Chiester 45 = Chiester 410 >> Leviathan = Satan = Belphagor = Mammon = Beelzebub = Asmodeus = Shannon > Lucifer = Kanon > Gertrude > Cornelia >>> Sakutaro > Clair Vaux Bernardus

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 16:26:36 2013 No.10719207 >>10719189 >Lambdadelta > Bernkastel Shouldn't Bern be above?

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 16:37:06 2013 No.10719236 >>10719207 But Bern won

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 16:37:51 2013 No.10719235 >>10719207 Lambda won.

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 16:39:07 2013 No.10719241

>>10719189
Why chiesters so low tier? Weren't they like, holy shit tier?

Same with zepar and mates, everyone including beato was like "you guys are the best" and zepar and furfur were like "damn straight". They were so powerful they didn't actually give a shit about any powerlevels

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 16:43:06 2013 No.10719243

>>10714919
Our confessions a shit. I will say this once again

You can treat it with a same way as beatos boards, one possible game, and those boards have no goddamn correlation to rokkenjima-prime and the truth, boards serve only to give hints about the story and their main principle is to remind battler about yasus heart. It is implied even in the end of our confessions where dlanor musters something about "another solution" or something like that iirc

But i am aware that ryu wrote yasu to be the real culprit but that is just retarded and i get the feeling he is just having a giggle

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 16:43:07 2013 No.10719244 >>10719241 >Weren't they like, holy shit tier? They're just better than the stakes.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 16:47:21 2013 No.10719256 >>10719236 No, Featherine won.

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 16:47:52 2013 No.10719255

>>10719244
No i mean in the ep 6 or 5 virgilia and friends have to make amazing amounts of plans just to beat the bunnies. Every time they appeared everyone was shocked at their power. And they totally nailed beatrice (but she actually lived, so i guess that doesn't count?). And virgilia.

Daily reminder that in reality it was the bunnies that killed everyone

With bullets

Haha get it?

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 16:49:21 2013 No.10719259 >>10719255 That's EP3, it was a farse..or am I wrong?

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 16:52:51 2013 No.10719267 >>10719259 Actually not, now that i think about it. But they were totally overpowered even outside episode 3. Feels bad man to rank them so low, even though everyone practically shat their pants on sight

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 16:55:36 2013 No.10719272 >>10719267 >everyone Eh, not really. And the Siesta sisters can only work together.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 17:00:21 2013 No.10719284 >>10719189 The one true powerlevel chart: AuAu > Lambdadelta > Bernkastel > Furfur = Zepar > Dlanor = Will > Goldsmith > Chiesters > Endless Batora > Beato = Erika > Eva-Beatrice > Stakes > Shannon > Kanon >Clair >>>>>> Sakutaro

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 17:03:51 2013 No.10719289 >>10719284 Nononononono. >Furfur = Zepar Impossible, they don't have the same rank >Goldsmith > Chiesters > Endless Batora Endless Batora can beat Bern.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 17:05:51 2013 No.10719293 >>10719289 And Clair can't do anything.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 17:06:21 2013 No.10719295 >>10719289 >no same rank Did i miss something? >Batora beating Bern I find it unfair to rank only because he won one battle. Overall Bern was more magical fighter

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 17:09:36 2013 No.10719306 >>10719295 Ranks Ronove 27 Gaap 33 Zepar 16 Furfur 34 Zepar > Ronove > Gaap > Furfur

Anonymous Sun Apr 7 17:20:36 2013 No.10719328

My theoriy: When They Cry takes place in a massive computer simulation like the matrix, except it's a system called ``nscripter'', where the creators are really just bored people fucking around with what they consider to be meaningless automatons. One day, Ryukishi was feeling mean, so he wrote a quick script to kill this little girl a few thousand times, but when he came back from getting a sandwich, he say that she had managed to live, so he killed her again and sent her to a bad branch of the image, but felt bad, and made it just be a dream. Then he got bored again and made a witch kill an entire family over and over again while making one member watch and comment on it. He was going to do this for a while but his buddy (who he had a crush on) named BT called him and told him he was coming over, so he had to kill off the witch because it was clearly just BT in a dress for Ryu to fap to. But BT was killed on the way and Ryu decided to bring back the witch and kill the family for the last time so he could stop thing about his long lost love being dead.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 17:21:06 2013 No.10719330 >>10719306 ...and are you just pulling numbers randomly or did i miss something again...

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 17:22:52 2013 No.10719331 >>10719330 >or did i miss something again Exactly.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 17:23:07 2013 No.10719332 >>10719330 Those are their rankings in hell. Pretty sure it's on the character TIPS.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 17:24:36 2013 No.10719336 >>10719332 So are you saying this whole powerlevel bullshit is ACTUALLY A REAL THING? Ryu what the hell have you done?

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 17:26:37 2013 No.10719339 >>10719336 Of course is a real thing, but it works only for some character.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 17:31:36 2013 No.10719346 Ronove, Gaap, Zepar, and Furfur are demons from the Ars Goetia. Same with Flauros, from Our Confessions. There are 72 demons in total. They have the ranks stated. But it isn't known whether these ranks imply that kind of hierarchy of power levels.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 18:13:55 2013 No.10719460 Bug coincidence it turned to garbage when Beato stopped fem domming that tard Battler.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 18:29:22 2013 No.10719503 File: 150 KB, 500x281, tumblr_mb1m9ynfyx1qmrmtro1_500.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Can someone explain me why kinzo is so fucking magical?

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 18:31:37 2013 No.10719509 >>10719503 cuz he ded

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 7 18:38:08 2013 No.10719545 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3QRcP6gtek

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