/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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Anonymous Mon Jan 21 10:48:13 2013 No.10387223 [Reply] [Original]

Can we have a thread talking about Doujin culture? I wrote an article about copyright recently and I held Doujin culture as an example of how strict copyright enforcement doesn't lead to "Innovation" at all. A social contract similar to Doujin culture would actually lead to an explosion in western comic book culture, or would be especially useful in the likes of electronic music.

What do you think?

Anonymous Mon Jan 21 10:54:28 2013 No.10387233

Sure thing, Aaeru.

I mentioned this in another thread, but I think the whole idea that doujin culture couldn't work in the West is false. People say Westerners aren't humble enough or we're too greedy or whatever, but there are plenty of examples of bedroom programmers making hit games, and people sell junk at Comic-Con every year (including straight-up copyright infringement like bootlegs). Not to mention this whole indie fad.

Then again, I've seen fan projects die thanks to C&Ds from Nintendo or Square-Enix or whoever. I think more companies should be willing to write a terms of use like ZUN's: you can use these characters and settings, as long as you try to get them right and don't do anything illegal or misleading.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 11:11:13 2013 No.10387266 >>10387223 >stupid uneducated opinions You are fucking retarded.

Anonymous Mon Jan 21 11:19:58 2013 No.10387288

>>10387223
>strict copyright enforcement doesn't lead to "Innovation" at all. A social contract similar to Doujin culture would actually lead to an explosion in western comic book culture, or would be especially useful in the likes of electronic music.

I don't think anyone would disagree.

>>10387233
>the whole idea that doujin culture couldn't work in the West is false. People say Westerners aren't humble enough or we're too greedy or whatever,

What I've heard is the fault is actually on a shitty IP laws. If you don't defend your "property" at all cost from unauthorized use, you may actually lose it to the infringer. So everyone does.

But I'm not a law expert. Don't quote me.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 11:21:29 2013 No.10387292 >>10387288 >If you don't defend your "property" at all cost from unauthorized use, you may actually lose it to the infringer. Don't confuse I.P. with trademarks. Fuck off, go learn the basics and then come back and argue about shit.

Anonymous Mon Jan 21 11:22:14 2013 No.10387293

I'm much more interested in the information regarding doujinshi and doujin soft throughout the years. Can the many editions of Comiket that happened throughout the years be succesfuly characterized by the types of games released and the succesful franchises and companies that bloomed from there? I can't say yes because I lack information regarding that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 11:23:29 2013 No.10387298 File: 695 KB, 446x522, 1354506837634.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10387266 who are you quoting?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 11:24:13 2013 No.10387299 >>10387298 The OP that keeps samefagging.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 11:27:13 2013 No.10387307 >>10387299 I don't think he ever said that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 11:29:28 2013 No.10387315 >>10387307 That was the actual meat of the post.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 11:29:43 2013 No.10387316 A blog post is not an "article".

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 11:33:44 2013 No.10387328 >>10387292 He's right, though. A trademark is just a symbol that says "this is my thing." The things themselves are "intellectual property", which may or may not have a trademark.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 11:33:59 2013 No.10387330 spend your time with something useful

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 11:35:14 2013 No.10387333 >>10387316 Trying too hard to be different. Even Usenet postings were called articles.

Anonymous Mon Jan 21 11:36:29 2013 No.10387338

“Intellectual property”
Publishers and lawyers like to describe copyright as “intellectual property”—a term also applied to patents, trademarks, and other more obscure areas of law. These laws have so little in common, and differ so much, that it is ill-advised to generalize about them. It is best to talk specifically about “copyright,” or about “patents,” or about “trademarks.”

The term “intellectual property” carries a hidden assumption—that the way to think about all these disparate issues is based on an analogy with physical objects, and our conception of them as physical property.

When it comes to copying, this analogy disregards the crucial difference between material objects and information: information can be copied and shared almost effortlessly, while material objects can't be.

To avoid spreading unnecessary bias and confusion, it is best to adopt a firm policy not to speak or even think in terms of “intellectual property”.

The hypocrisy of calling these powers “rights” is starting to make the World “Intellectual Property” Organization embarrassed.

Anonymous Mon Jan 21 13:23:33 2013 No.10387771

I was thinking about this stuff the other day, specially regarding trademarking and such. I remember that time when someone trademarked touhou project instead of ZUN because of some legal technicality.

Do doujin creators trademark their original content? How is this done? Do you just add TM to the name and that's it, or is there some kind of legal process?

Anonymous Mon Jan 21 17:20:27 2013 No.10388688

Western indie developers are either obnoxious (Notch),suffering from unwarranted self importance (Phil Fish) or are just plain incompetent (Edmund McMillen, SORRY GUYS. NO CONTROL CONFIG GO USE XPADDER LOLOL).

Also greedy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob%27s_Game

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 17:24:58 2013 No.10388697 >>10387771 In most countries (including Japan) you apply for a trademark from some trademark office. There is usually a fee, then it's yours.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 17:26:27 2013 No.10388708 >>10388688 >Edmund McMillen, SORRY GUYS. NO CONTROL CONFIG GO USE XPADDER LOLOL He's a Newgrounds Flash developer. Flash doesn't have support for gamepads. What do you expect him to do rewrite Flash?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 17:28:28 2013 No.10388718 >>10388708 Maybe he should learn another language before trying to sell games to people.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 17:34:12 2013 No.10388743 >>10388718 He's porting Isaac to some other language so it's not like he isn't trying.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 17:34:57 2013 No.10388741 >>10388688 Japanese ones are all "WESTERNERS DON'T BUY, WESTERNERS DON'T PIRATE, JAP GAME NOT FOR YOU"

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 17:35:27 2013 No.10388744 >>10388688 I like that the "see also" section mentions Derek Smart.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 17:36:27 2013 No.10388747 >>10388741 Yet their games are appearing on Steam and other digital game outselts

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 17:36:58 2013 No.10388749 >>10388747 outlets*

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 17:37:43 2013 No.10388753 >>10388747 And what a shame that is.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 17:38:12 2013 No.10388759 >>10388753 Check out Mr.Counter Culture over here.

Anonymous Mon Jan 21 17:39:42 2013 No.10388762

>>10388747
The point is they have to sell their soul to the white devil to have westerners pay for their games, which were made for a japanese audience.

It must be a real bad situation for them. They discover their game is popular overseas but they get no revenue. But then to get revenue they have to submit to how other people want to sell it, this happening a long time after the game was relevant and people had interest in it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 17:40:57 2013 No.10388767 >>10388759 Check out mister "I buy online licenses of my games through game facebook" over here.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 17:42:57 2013 No.10388775 >>10388767 That doesn't even make sense. Get in bed so I can tuck you in. You're sleepy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 17:45:13 2013 No.10388787 >>10388775 You aren't making any sense either. I found it much better for both of us to lower my level of argumentation to match yours. Also stop with the kinky stuff.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 17:46:12 2013 No.10388794 >>10388688 And you are a fucking weeaboo retard. Using 3 developers for the source of your delusion? Bitch please.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 17:47:27 2013 No.10388801 >>10388747 You mean those shitty games SA translated? EasyGameStation sucks to begin with. Of course they'd want more exposure. Though if they keep censoring them up, other groups are gonna get wary

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 17:48:27 2013 No.10388805 >>10388794 Yeah. He forgot faux-indies who cash in on the movement/idiology/whatever it is (Jonathan Blow)

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 17:49:27 2013 No.10388808 >>10388801 >Fortune Summoners, Racettear >Bad

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 17:49:42 2013 No.10388810 File: 103 KB, 281x286, 1357178718970.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10388805 ideology* I'm sorry.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 17:54:42 2013 No.10388830 >>10388805 You forgot Toad (the guy that made DF), the team that made Jamestown, VVVVVV... Just kill your fucking self.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 17:57:27 2013 No.10388851 >>10388805 >faux-indies wow what a fugin nerd

Anonymous Mon Jan 21 18:07:28 2013 No.10388886

>>10388830
We're speaking noteworthy developers here (read: people who the press talk about as a representation of independent developers), most of which charge for their games. Toad and the developers of dungeon crawl are saints. VVVVV dude is in the same boat as the others, though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 18:48:28 2013 No.10389068 >>10388808 They are bad and you should feel bad for liking them. Also, those are the only two games from them you know, right?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 18:49:43 2013 No.10389075 >>10388886 >the developers of dungeon crawl are saints. If you mean stone soup, they are actually a bunch of fags who have run the game into the ground.

Anonymous Mon Jan 21 18:51:42 2013 No.10389082

>>10389075
How so? Frankly, as someone who doesn't delve in the community aspect of the game and merely plays it, all I see is a game getting updated constantly. Is this about them taking out mountain dwarves or does it go deeper than that? I am genuinely interested.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 18:52:57 2013 No.10389093 >>10389068 Wait, Fortune Summoners isn't even from Easygamestation. I was thinking of Chantelise. You couldn't even think up two examples from them.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 18:53:42 2013 No.10389098 >>10389082 It's also about them adding in shitty new races

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 18:55:12 2013 No.10389107 >>10389068 You don't know what bad game is. You should kill yourself for insulting Fortune Summoners.

Anonymous Mon Jan 21 18:58:12 2013 No.10389123

>>10389098
Octopede and Felid are gimmicky, I'll give you that. But they don't really get in the way of the game and there were already some gimmicky species before those (draconian is one that comes to mind right now). Again, I'm not entirely in the know of what's being done with the game on too deep a level, so my opinion is not well-informed.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 19:02:27 2013 No.10389133 >>10389107 see >>10389093

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 19:12:57 2013 No.10389198 >>10389133 Stop backpedalling.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 19:14:57 2013 No.10389212 >>10389198 I think you need to google that term, mate.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 19:15:12 2013 No.10389214 >>10389198 Stop being retarded.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 19:19:42 2013 No.10389248 >>10389212 No, I'm pretty of what it means >>10389214 I am not.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 21 19:22:28 2013 No.10389260 >>10389248 *pretty sure

Anonymous Mon Jan 21 19:23:57 2013 No.10389262

Japan has ridiculously overbearing copyright laws and its creative industries flourish at all levels large and small. The Japanese doujin culture is probably the best possible counter-argument against what you're saying. Companies are relatively lax when it comes to fair use but legal protections for copyright are more sever than anywhere and the culture of piracy is much weaker than in the West (regardless of Share and PD).

Anonymous Mon Jan 21 19:27:42 2013 No.10389272

>>10387328
>>10387338

I'd just like to interrupt for a moment. Publishers and lawyers like to describe copyright as “intellectual property”—a term also applied to patents, trademarks, and other more obscure areas of law. These laws have so little in common, and differ so much, that it is ill-advised to generalize about them. It is best to talk specifically about “copyright,” or about “patents,” or about “trademarks.”

The term “intellectual property” carries a hidden assumption—that the way to think about all these disparate issues is based on an analogy with physical objects, and our conception of them as physical property.

When it comes to copying, this analogy disregards the crucial difference between material objects and information: information can be copied and shared almost effortlessly, while material objects can't be.

To avoid spreading unnecessary bias and confusion, it is best to adopt a firm policy not to speak or even think in terms of “intellectual property”.

The hypocrisy of calling these powers “rights” is starting to make the World “Intellectual Property” Organization embarrassed.

Anonymous Mon Jan 21 19:51:27 2013 No.10389357

From what I've read, western attitudes toward ownership and credit really get in the way of any kind of extensive flourishing of a doujon culture. We get hung up a lot more over stamping our names on every little thing we make and are ambivalent about co-operative production of content.

Basically what I al saying is that an American Comiket would probably shut down after some fujoshit capped one of her peers because the dumb bitch totally copied her Rainbow Dash doujin or whatever.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 18:15:36 2013 No.10393798 Hello. Aaeru.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 23 22:48:30 2013 No.10399699 >>10387223 I will save this thread kudasai

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 23 22:50:46 2013 No.10399709 >>10399699 Please conjugate your verbs properly when using kudasai.

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