Kishoutenketsu

[Anonymous No.]

http://stilleatingoranges.tumblr.com/post/25153960313/the-significance-of-plot-without-conflict

An interesting article regarding the ideas behind Japanese writing versus the ideas behind Western writing, which is interesting in a VN context. It goes a long way towards explaining slice-of-life as a major or even sole part of a story, and to things like the nakige formula (which completely fits the introduction - development - twist - reconciliation formula).

[Anonymous No.]

Interestingly, an archive search for 'conflict' netted me this recent post from the VN General (>>10303539):
>The problem is that there is no conflict. Every story needs a conflict.
>
>There was no story to the VN.
>Even a poorly developed drama would've been better than this.

Maybe we've all been looking at VN plot the wrong way all this time.

[Anonymous No.]

>introduction
>development
>twist
>reconciliation
The "twist" is exactly a conflict you fucking weeb cunt, it's a conflict against the supposed "new element" that is introduced, conflict shouldn't be understood as solely "conflict against the world/other characters", there's also "conflict against one's own nature" the third element that gooks/chinks introduce IS the conflict we, western "eurocentric" (it's nice how people who accuse others of centrism are actually centrist themselves', see how the author of this article is an asiacentrist in this case) people speak of.

Now, i'm not saying that there is no difference between western and asian narrative, but this fuck is butting in and claiming "well, that's what YOU gaijins believe! Our glorious AZN stories are peaceful and completely devoid of violence!!1!"

[Anonymous No.]

OP, did you know Yonkoma, the basic analytical block to see kishoutenketsu in action, evolved from the short comic strips from western newspapers after WW2?

Stuff like Calvin and Hobbes or Peanuts didn't have much conflict, or any at all to them sometimes, yet they're loved throughout the Western audience. Hell I love Calvin and Hobbes myself as much as I also enjoy Yotsuba&.

But it's right that some people see "good" storytelling under the 3 and 5 act schemes and disregard anything else. But it's also a fact that when kishoutenketsu doesn't have anything appealing during the "twist" phase it becomes dull. I'd say it's not impossible, but rather hard to keep an interesting narrative in the kishoutenketsu format. Not many people are skilled enough to keep you in sync with the characters, in my opinion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323371
epic thisery, unironically

[Anonymous No.]

There is no such thing as a story without conflict, even if it's internal conflict or something abstract like a conflict against ennui .

[Anonymous No.]

Is there why there are so many "twist" VNs?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323408
For some reason I've read all these comics which mostly consistent of characters going somewhere and eating something, the end.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323431
Internal conflict: man vs. stomach.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323408
For some reason I've read all these comics which mostly consist of characters going somewhere and eating something, the end.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323426
Conflict against starvation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323433
Technically, that's not internal conflict, it's external. Man vs nature. Internal involves thinking.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323434
One of them actually had an "avoid starvation" theme to it. In the other one they just went to a restaurant, but I guess they were out of something, so there was some conflict there.

I feel like I lowered the intellectual level of this thread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323371
Have you read the article? What is the 'conflict' in this 4koma? The twist is that the narrative suddenly introduces a completely unexpected element that seems non sequitur at first, then it resolves that by revealing its connection to the story you've been following up until now. But I'm not seeing a conflict...reader vs. comprehension of the story?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323450
Internal conflict (she had to pick a soda).

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323408
What about a lot of slice-of-life? Explain the conflict in Lucky Star, for example (aside from short tsukkomi bits).

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323450
Plus more internal conflict when she decided to give it away rather than drinking it herself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323460
But that's not what the story is about at all. Hell, we don't even know if she's even picking a soda, maybe she's just buying happiness-in-a-can for him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323464
A bunch of man vs society with the geek stuff. Plus man vs nature when it comes to Konata's health and the death of her mother.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323467
But we are never shown this supposed 'conflict' of yours. It isn't even revealed she has this possibility of giving the can away until the fourth panel (the third panel hints at it, but only at the fourth panel is the connection between the characters revealed).

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323464

I can explain that that show is the most boring piece of shit conceivable.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm this guy >>10323294

That was an interesting read. Thanks, OP.

Kishoutenketsu may explain all the drivel SoL segments in VNs. But I must argue that true development cannot occur without conflict, major or minor. What the "development" phase merely does in Kishoutenketsu is expounding on the characters, not developing them. They aren't changed after the development phase; they are merely fleshed out more.

And this is the chief problem I have with SoL VNs and Moeges. It is akin to observing a painting. There is no movement. There is no action. I am literally looking at a "slice" of a character's life, when I should be watching a "segment" of it.

Writing is fundamentally an art of storytelling, not an art of imagery making. Rather than striving to create an art, VN developers should strive to create a film.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323469
It says "soda pop" on the machine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323450
But what if she was stashing cocaine in that soda pop machine and that guy is part of the yakuza?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323477
It's a comic, it shows it in pictures.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323485
Well, that is the entire point - you have certain notions of what a story should be due to your Western preconceptions. Isn't that like listening to classical music and complaining about the lack of a good drum rhythm, bass line, guitar solos and other modern elements?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323485
I will now explain the reason for this, it is very simple. The people to whom these VNs are targeted to do no like conflict. They are tired of life and want to hide in these visual novels. Therefore there is no conflict, there is no change, there is only happiness.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323485
>Writing is fundamentally an art of storytelling, not an art of imagery making.
Even in Western fiction, this can be disagreed on. Works like 1984 aren't remembered for the great story they told, but for the memorable world they described. You could say the plot was little more than an excuse to explore the world in which it was set.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323496
Until the heroine suddenly dies because you picked the wrong choices.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323525
This is exactly why most science fictions are shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323525
1984 had a very solid story. It also followed the proper structure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323524
That's my other complaint against the VN medium.

Stop making explicitly marked "good ends" and "bad ends" based on the choices made. VNs aren't video games that has good and bad ends. They are stories that have different conclusions, none superior over the other.

[Anonymous No.]

I'd be surprised if any of the people bloviating in this thread about how VN writing should be changed to fit a Western paradigm even know Japanese. You people don't have any place to say anything of worth about visual novels and I wish you would shut up. It's like listening to someone who's read a few Dostoyevsky books talking about all of the "problems" with Russian literature or something. Like you even have any clue what you are talking about, when you're incapable of interacting with the majority of the medium at all, much less in its original language and context. Eat shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323580
Moogy-dono, is that you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323580
Most of the people in this thread came from the VN general, where the majority of the people read a newly released VN monthly.

We're fairly qualified to talk about VN writing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323580
I'm sure most bibliophiles in Japan look down on VNs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323603
Yeah, sure you are.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323604
And? Does that have anything to do with my post? No it doesn't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323580
>>10323609
>>10323613
Why are you so angry

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323613
They are poorly written, in other words.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323624
Again: and? What does that have to do with whether non-Japanese speakers have any actual insight regarding VNs? Nothing. Fuck off please.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323630
See >>10323603

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323630
You don't need to be from the same culture to recognize bad writing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323630

You sound like some fundamentalist Imam spouting that someone doesn't understand Islam until they read the Qu'ran in Arabic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323613
He was implying that natives that have had experience with both would still find something to complain about them because they have a lower literary value than a "true" novel.

>>10323604
What I've grasped about the general attitude of people into literature in Japan, is that they're segmented into "pure" literature (reading for literary value) and "pop" literature (reading for entertainment value). Thus, you might be right on saying that they do look down on it since VNs are mostly made for the entertainment value.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323638
>He was implying that natives that have had experience with both would still find something to complain about them because they have a lower literary value than a "true" novel.

Okay, and? That has nothing to do with my point at all. Please stop wasting my fucking time.

>>10323633
And it's quite obvious you're full of shit. Sorry!

>>10323639
And you sound like an idiot who is incapable of grasping a simple straightforward point. Learn to read.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323638
Sort of like separating mass market fiction from trade fiction.

[Anonymous No.]

>The repercussions of this extend to all writing; and, if this writer’s conclusion is to be believed, to philosophy itself

Hey! let's turn a purely argumentative and speculative thing and make it so that it doesn0t have arguments of any-sort because gooks don't like all that conflict.... Man I loooooooooooovvveeeeeee asia, like it's nothing like us man!

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323649
>Please stop wasting my fucking time.
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323664
Epic post, really.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323664
You could just ignore him until he says something new or intelligent, you know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323669
That was another anon, but I am quite aware of that. It did make me laugh a bit though, because being in /jp/ posting isn't a stellar use of someone's time in any way.

>>10323652
That's pretty much it, the distinction includes Light Novels as the mayor offender for "pop" literature though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323638
>segmented into "pure" literature (reading for literary value) and "pop" literature (reading for entertainment value)
What is 'literary value'? Why would you read literature other than for entertainment? Is reading 'pure literature' considered an inherently productive thing or something, like you become a better person rather than just spending time to improve your emotional state as with normal fiction?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323701

I'm not sure if you know this but some things can require thought and also be entertaining.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323701
I honestly don't know. I am not advocating for either side, because I think it's silly as well to take a side. That's just what I can observe between people's tastes.

I think a lot of writers in Japanese started realizing that too and started to blur that line themselves as well as the language line, the most notable example nowadays is probably any work by Murakami Haruki.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323677
Not him.
I don't think VNs count as lit. They rely too much on the visual aspect and other mechanics to be really lit. I may be a pleb for saying this but a very well made VN caused me the same effect than a piece of lit did, but only partially by it's writing.
>>10323701
I think of it as the difference between champagne and a corona or whatever fucking beer kids drink nowadays. But you maybe right.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323712
But things like Remember11 and to a lesser extent things like Ever17 and Umineko also require thinking. Yet I would be laughed at by pretty much anyone if I tried to present them as 'real literature'.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323770

I'm not familiar with them personally, - I've never played a VN - but I assume that's because they're filled with a lot of psychobabble that has plagued many shitty Japanese pop-culture works, e.g Evangelion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323740
I get your point about them not being true literature, and I think it's not wrong. It is that combination of music, visual cues and text that really makes a VN a VN.

I think Type-Moon got it right with Mahoyo, even though the story itself is not stellar, just how they blend everything together is worthy of admiration for what a VN means. Everything complements each other. And they knew that was important and got Tsukuri Monoji to be an actual director for the scenes to make it blend better. They broke and experimented with a lot of the paradigms that the VN medium itself offers, such as the point of view, and I think that's the beauty of the medium that should be exploited more often.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323818
>I've never played a VN

Then why don't you fuck off and stop trying to discuss something you know nothing about.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323868

I can discuss whatever I feel like, my friend. I only posted twice in this thread, however, so don't be too upset.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323920
Typical entitled faggot. I knew what you would reply before you even typed it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323920
You are free to discuss whatever you like; you are not free, however, to feed the trolls. Preventing a thread from being derailed is a community effort, please do your part.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323957
What troll? What is trolling about telling someone to fuck off when they are posting in a thread a bout VNs, while freely admitting they've never even played one. You're a fucking idiot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323546
>Stop making explicitly marked "good ends" and "bad ends" based on the choices made. VNs aren't video games that has good and bad ends.

As much as I disliked Tsukihime as a whole, I think I will use it to make a point here

Do you remember the hotel scene where Chaos and fuck trying to spell his actualy name, fucking randomass letters started sending his animal goons into the joint? It was a very tense scenario. Very suspenseful

The fact that there *was* a bad end enhanced the atmosphere because suddenly you *could* fail, you *could* die, and there *wouldn't* be a happy ending. While it could be argued that this was ineffective due to the nature of simply reloading, or that good stories can be suspenseful despite a linear nature, it needs to be said that ability to fail is what makes the ability to succeed more gripping

Put simply, if one knows the protagonist cannot fail to survive through a building infested with horrible creatures, as the show must indeed go on, is there really much intrigue in watching him do so?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323863
Yes, yes.
Fuck... You are a rare one, even over at /lit/ most of them would say a VN or a comic book are lit. I'm glad someone agreed with me.... I'm so happy....

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323972

It's a thread about writing styles, not specifically VNs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324016
If you've never read a VN, why are you even on /jp/

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324021

Not that guy, but a lot of newfriends come to /jp/ during Comiket for the uploads

It's rather bothersome that they don't know their place well enough to keep their uninformed opinions to themselves, but, in fairness, *most* idiots are eager to share their ignorant thoughts on matters they have no understanding or experience of, so it's not like it's specific to newfriends or anything

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323994
His name is 'Nrvnqsr', from 'Neron Kaiser' (emperor Nero), written in a way that in gematria his name has a numerical value of '666'. An argument could be made that his name is retarded, but it definitely isn't random.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324021

I don't like to blogpost, but you can view this pastebin file for an actual response if you desire. http://pastebin.com/ChaZ0R3T

>>10324046

I've been visiting this board for years in fact.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324051
Relevant Wikipedia excerpt:
>Many researchers connect the "Number of the Beast", referred to in the Book of Revelation of the New Testament, with either Greek or Hebrew gematria as used by the early Christians. According to such interpretations, the number in question, 666, was originally derived via gematria from the name of the Roman emperor of the time, Nero Caesar (נרונקסר Nero Qasr).[20]

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324051

Okay, fair enough. I forgot that detail

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324056
>http://pastebin.com/ChaZ0R3T

What the fuck.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324056

That's cool

>but, in fairness, *most* idiots are eager to share their ignorant thoughts on matters they have no understanding or experience of, so it's not like it's specific to newfriends or anything

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324066

It wasn't really an ignorant thought, it was a somewhat educated guess based on what was said & my experience with Japanese pop-culture having a fetish for philosophically saying nothing on the level of postmodernism.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323770
That's because they only require thinking about the story itself, not anything outside of it, e.g. life, and therefore there is no real value in the "thought" it inspires.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323996
>even over at /lit/ most of them would say a VN or a comic book are lit
As someone who regularly browses /lit/: no, no they wouldn't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323994
Good point. I haven't thought of that.

I was referring to end of the story endings that branch off at the epilogue though. "Dead Ends" are a separate matter, at least in my opinion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324076
Umineko (especially the later episodes) in particular has a lot of meaning outside of its own story, mainly regarding knowledge of 'truth' and acceptance of ignorance, fantasy and delusions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324074

Which just goes to further demonstrate that you not only have no experience with the subject matter you're speaking of, but have acquired your opinions from second-hand sources rather than actually studying the material yourself. This is especially evident in your belief that Evangelion is "philosophically saying nothing," which is often the prattle spouted by people who have not actually watched it

I will spare you a detailed explanation, but suffice it to say that it is at its heart a fairly simple story painted with Christian themes that are ultimately just there for flavor. Unless you honestly consider The Porcupine's Dilemma, basic Freud, and commentary on otaku culture to be some sort of abstract concept beyond the kin of mortal man

Put simply; keep your uninformed opinions to yourself. No, I don't care if you have experience in "literature." You haven't watched most of the things you're criticizing and are flaunting about as if your opinions are still worth anything

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324111
Not that guy, but Umineko isn't exactly a good example of an intelligent work.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324115
Just don't waste your time. He's already shown he's one of the "well I have a right to be here and do whatever I want" / "sorry but I don't need to meet your standards, anonymous" type of shitheads. Just ignore him and maybe he'll leave.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324076

So you believe that the merit of a story is not in the simple intellectual stimulation it gives but in the thoughts it gives on "life"?

Boy, you must be real fun at parties

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324115
>Porcupine's Dilemma

It's Hedgehog's Dilemma.
Please stop spreading your propaganda saturated ideas about how both are interchangeable.

[Anonymous No.]

bluh bluh bluh bluh post-modernism bluh bluh bluh it's bad on purpose

The only philosophy out there you can safely disregard. You'd get more out of looking at a trashcan for a few hours

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324131

Thanks for the correction, Captain Autism. This conversation has definitely been enriched by your input

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324115

I have watched Evangelion, and you seem to contradict yourself quite a bit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324085
Not him, but I'd say even there the same thing counts. In Remember11's Kokoro chapter, depending on your choices at the end you get a bad ending where everybody dies, or you get the good end; the bad endings directly relate to difficult decisions you've had to make before, making those decisions actually feel heavy. In particular a great bad ending is if you choose to go to the area where the avalanche will strike in several hours, assuming you will get away before the avalanche strikes; you will instead mess up and lose consciousness at the avalanche site, only waking up right before avalanche when everybody's come out to search for you, causing everybody to die in the exact way the newspaper from the future predicted. Having things play out that way is essential to the story (confirming that the danger you've been told about at the very start is completely possible) but it can't be combined with the main story, so it's an alternate ending.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324131
Either term is acceptable you fucking mong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324140
>acceptable

It's adequate.
Please stop spreading your propaganda saturated ideas about how both are interchangeable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324140
>>10324133
You people are the worst.

I bet you refer to chimpanzees as apes too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324149
No, it is "acceptable."

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324150
Yeah, they're MONKEYS. Get it through your skull already, idiots.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324128
No, I was simply explaining to the guy why those VNs would not be considered literature.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324153
>No

It's wrong.
Please stop spreading your propaganda saturated ideas about how both are interchangeable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324150
Yes I do.

>>10324156
I'm sorry but it is correct. You are wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324137
>I have watched Evangelion

I don't believe you actually have and are in fact lying on the internet, so I suppose we are at an impasse

Good day, sir

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324161
I'll take that as your admission of defeat. Nice playing with you, fake autist-kun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324159
Oh yeah, a dictionary, great. REAL fucking reliable source there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324159
Even dictionaries have fallen to the corporate lies.

This is a sad day, /jp/

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324159
Well, the dictionary is wrong in this case.

Any respectable high school graduate can tell you that chimps aren't apes.

[Anonymous No.]

What is happening right now.

[Anonymous No.]

Not only does OP's article mix up plot and story but it goes so far as to jerk off Derrida.

I can't take it easy like this.
This thread's a shit.
MEIDO!

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324167
I have a doctorate in anthropology and yeah, I can back you up on this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10323649
>Please stop wasting my fucking time.
I just saw your post on the front page and came here to say that if you don't want your time wasted then why don't you close your fucking browser and go do something worthy of your precious and productive time, you poor self-centered, arrogant, worthless, sad and pathetic excuse of animal waste?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324169

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324177
An "ape" is a member of the biological superfamily Hominoidea. Chimpanzees are part of the family Hominidae, which is part of the superfamily Hominoidea; ergo chimpanzees are "apes." Try not to lie about your credentials next time, please.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324177
if you're a doctor you're a bad one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324183
Sounds like I really touched a nerve there. I'm sorry that you don't know Japanese and don't have anything worthwhile to say about VNs. Maybe you will be able to learn someday, though I doubt it. You people always get so offended when called out on your bullshit. It's really quite funny.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324182
Don't believe everything you read on Wikipedia, kiddo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324191
I'll take that as your admission of defeat. Nice playing you with, fake anthropologist-kun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324193
>Nice playing you with

It would be more natural to say "Nice playing with you"

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324190
I don't even care, I didn't even read the thread, just know that you sound like a whiny and arrogant piece of shit. I hope you get killed by a train because nobody needs you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324196
That's not an unnatural way to say it, it's just plain wrong.
How the hell does someone who can't even speak English expect me to believe him when he claims something as stupid as chimpanzees being apes?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324198
Damn, do you usually jump into the middle of people's arguments you know nothing about and start puffing your chest out like a big cocksucker?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324206
It's common among the "English VN translation" crowd. Whenever you put them down they start to cry and whine and throw around insults. I'm surprised he isn't talking about how "shitty" VNs are and why it's a waste of time to learn Japanese to read them. Just par for the course.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324206
No, because I never had the bad luck of meeting such a piece of shit until today.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324213
Do they not have mirrors where you come from?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324210
>"English VN translation" crowd

He's not even that. He's a totally unrelated bystander. For all we know, he's some turbonormie from /soc/ or something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324216
I don't think so. His reaction is too stereotypical of that group. He's lying about not having read the thread. He couldn't have seen my post on the front page anyway unless he opened his browser two hours ago and just now checked it.

[Anonymous No.]

It feels like I've walked into /v/. What is wrong with all of you?

[Anonymous No.]

It goes a long way to explaining it but it still doesn't make it any less shitty, OP.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324220
There are more than 3 people browsing /jp/.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324224
>/jp/ not in charge of being /v/

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324235
No, there are exactly three people browsing /jp/: you, me, and that one guy with shit taste.

[Anonymous No.]

Is this the arguing general or something?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324243
But you're the guy with shit taste

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324309
And then John was a zombie.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324304
shitposters derailed the thread and scared away all actual discussion and now are arguing among themselves, just hide this thread.

[Anonymous No.]

It's interesting to see how the development of this thread mirrors the development of /jp/ over the years.

[Anonymous No.]

Bump for meta.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324381
>>10324325
Just one faggot with a cocky attitude is enough to derail the entire thread >>10323580

That has happened since the beginning of time in every thread on earth.

[Anonymous No.]

The discussion was shit anyways guys. That blog post is fucking dumb.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324381,1

Nothing to discuss.

[ZUN !barYV1VtIA No.]

For some reason gaijin always make this huge mistake where they think VNs are different than any other type of video games the Japanese produce. This is also why a lot of OELVN devs fuck themselves over before they even begin.

Also the whole Japanese obsession with chill/relaxing stuff where nothing happens (SoL segments, healing type things like Aria) is merely a product of an overstressed society. Because of this cultural difference the Japanese get a lot more of out of this stuff than us gaijin (who mostly tend to be baffled by scenes where characters just talk about food for a half-hour with relaxing BGM playing in the background).

Crazy ass tumbler nerds and this nerd >>10323485

[Anonymous No.]

Holy crap were these retards really arguing about apes?

[Anonymous No.]

I like how the posters who can read Japanese automatically assume the persons they're talking to do not.

[Anonymous No.]

The thing I hate about SoL isn't the lack of conflict. 90% of the time it's literally everything else. The perfect, handsome, faceless, voiceless MC I can't identify with, the one-dimensional, predictable girls I can't care about, the "I'm so bad at cooking uguu" scene, the "we're living together now kyaa" scene I've seen a million times.

You tell me this shit is inseparable with having "no conflict," and I simply just won't believe you. I know interesting SoL exists, I've read it. I fucking love shit like Minami-ke, Working!!, and Ika Musume.

On the other hand, not being a 2hu fan, most 2hu doujin 4komas bore me to death, because most of them rely on your attachment to characters to entertain you, rather than being entertaining themselves.

"ah you just don't get it desu ne its kishochingchongketsu" does not excuse shitty SoL, a shitty 4koma about some broad getting a shithead a fucking soda, or shitty SoL scenes used to pad out a shitty VN. Also chimpanzees are apes, QUALITY THREAD, /jp/ - my blog general

[Anonymous No.]

epic thread

[Anonymous No.]

sticky this shit mootles

[Anonymous No.]

VN readers are the worst and lowest humans on the planet

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324405,8
hey what's up delusional-kun

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324405,9
>delusional-kun calling others delusional-kun so he act like he's relevant
nice try, delusional-kun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324405,10
if i was delusional-kun i'd be sperging out about VNs with anime adaptations!

[Anonymous No.]

I was thinking about reposting this article today. Now I can't without you faggots accusing me of having gotten the idea from the ghost board.

Fuck you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10324405,12
what a fag