/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Where are you on the triangle?

[Anonymous No.]

What's the difference between simulationist and the other two? Someone who looks for immersion/self-projection over gameplay or story?

[Anonymous No.]

behind simulationist fucking your mom mouthpussy

[Anonymous No.]

games are for children

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174826
I think, loosely, a narrativist wants the story to be dramatic and character-driven. A simulationist would focus on whether the game is "realistic."

[Anonymous No.]

I don't know what any of those mean.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174826
>>10174839
Then gamist is someone looking for fun?

[Anonymous No.]

retarded and useless model is retarded and useless. pls leave /jp/ and possibly /tg/ too.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174842
A gamist doesn't really care about the story. He just focuses on the gameplay. These terms are in the context of looking at RPG players.

All the players are looking for fun in their own way.

[Anonymous No.]

Simulationist is best. I loved all the geography/population/economy rules in D&D3, but I was the only person who cared about them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174847
Ah, so it is like:
- gamist likes to roll the dice and see the result
- simulationist likes the tech behind the dice rolls
- narrativist likes the story that goes with rolling of the dice

I see, I see.

[Anonymous No.]

Gameplay can make up for anything wrong with a video-game. I'd rather play a game with great gameplay and a shitty story than one with a great story and shitty gameplay.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

/jp/ - Games

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174855
This. It's not that I don't care about the story, it's that it should be part of the game. If you first describe a game as "having a good story", then it has failed as a video game. You're in the unique position of being able to show things to the player and have them interact with it. Long exposition should be kept to a minimum unless you're making a visual novel or in-depth role playing game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174858
Blew my mind
Wake up sheeple

[Anonymous No.]

between gamist and narrativist, but closer to gamist and narrativist.

[Anonymous No.]

Smack dab in the middle, because anyone who thinks that games need to skew towards any of those points instead different games having different priorities needs to get the fuck out to /v/.

If you care about gameplay, play gameplay-focused games, if you care about the story more play story-focused games, and if you're autistic play sandboxes.

Trying to force your preferences on others is fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.]

I like the Princesss Maker series.

Simulation adventure with RPG and a plot. A game that is hard to play or confusing is no good. A game with a stupid or no plot is boring. If the game gives no immersion then you can't really get into it. A game like Super Metroid is good, but it lacked a bit of plot which was left for the player to assume bits and pieces.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

Casuals, leave.

[Anonymous No.]

>Full gamist master race
What's the matter scrubs? Can't into competitive gaming?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174882
Chill out brah, nobody's forcing opinions on anybody.
You need to stop playing those online games with american teenagers that are constantly hostile.

[Anonymous No.]

What the fuck is this? I haven't heard of no triangles and shit.
I'm just on /jp/ because I want to sniff little girl butts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>>/q/318432

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174890
Really? Just see:
>>10174863
>If you first describe a game as "having a good story", then it has failed as a video game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174895
Oh boy. I am so mad and frustrated, you got me good.

[Anonymous No.]

The only correct answer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174897
You should argue back then.
If you win, you will be awarded +5 internets. Go for it, do it for the princess waiting in the next castle.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174831

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174902
according to this >>10174839, simulationist is about everything jp doesn't like in a video game

[Anonymous No.]

Simulation games are the best because they have unlimited replay value.

Games with a heavy focus on narrative can be fun when you first play them, but lose all worth after the first playthrough.

[Anonymous No.]

Narrative camp here. However, prioritizing that is something they get so very very WRONG. A computerized game should have a strong narrative, even if it's basically some kind of re-do of Ms Pac Man. But it should still be a game first, not some kind of a multimedia presentation or graphics demo that happens to have some shoddy shooter gameplay or whatever attached.

As for the simulation, that's off in its own little world of model airplanes and such. Accuracy simply does not exist in popular shooters.

[Anonymous No.]

Games are games. I don't play a video-game expecting a good plot just like I don't read a book expecting some challenging puzzles. I think we need to define interactive media more precisely. Those that focus on gameplay should be called "video-games," those that focus on plot should be called "interactive stories/movies," and those that focus on simulation should be called "virtual simulators." I'm tired that every year there seems to be more and more games that focus more on long cutscenes and super great plot than the game itself. A video-game is a game, nothing more, nothing less. Those who wish for something else out them need to be informed that what they are looking for is not a game but one of the other interactive medias stated.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174912
What if it simulate being the little girl?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174920
Right, but now you've switched over to talking about the "simulation"/strategy genre, which isn't what I think the OP was trying to refer to.

I could be wrong, I guess.

As for losing all worth or replay value, apparently not. Some people replay narrative-heavy games often enough that they wind up posting "speed runs" on youtube.

Plus then there's Touhou, which isn't a simulation of anything except perhaps a fireworks contest with floating yin-yang balls.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174929
Academia has apparently decided that the word "interactive" means "on the web." So be careful, they'll try to tell you you don't know what you're talking about if you say what you're saying in your post, to them, in a paper or something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174956
Academia is full of dumbshits.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174942

>Some people replay narrative-heavy games often enough that they wind up posting "speed runs" on youtube.

I've always wondered how people are capable of enjoying this. I get irritated if I have to hear even one cutscene twice. I can only replay a game after at least three years since anything shorter than that and I'll remember almost every thing word for word.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174963
No fucking arguments here.

It's kind of sad, really.

[Anonymous No.]

Touhou goes on top and VNs go on the bottom left, so what goes on the bottom right? Idolmaster?

>>10174965
Do you ever reread books?

[Anonymous No.]

I like all three aspects, but I guess lean pretty heavily towards simulationist.

I like to have a lot of customization and options in my games. My ideal RPG would be one where you spend days looking through spreadsheets, selecting characters and classes, changing how they look, tinkering with their equipment settings, and keeping track of a bunch of useless stats. And then maybe at the end you fight a battle or something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174978

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174976
bottom right could be Artificial Academy, if I understand this variable definition of simulationist correctly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174982
This seems like a compliment around here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174976

>Do you ever reread books?

Never. Sometimes I'll rewatch a movie after many years, but that's where I draw the line.

[Anonymous No.]

It depends on if we're talking about western or Japanese games.

Western developers are good at simulators, but Japanese developers are terrible at it. Either they don't even make that type of game at all or it's exclusively a sex thing and then they make a game that is very shallow. Look at most illusion games, they're simulations but they feel completely lifeless. Just characters superimposed over a completely dead open world setting.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174929
I don't think anything needs to be added.

[Anonymous No.]

If I wanted immersion I'd go outside.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174956
>Academia
You mean advertisers? I know it can be hard to tell them apart, since they both start with the same letter.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

This should be three dimensional, by the way.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm quite surprised to see that many people giving so little importance to narrative, and so much to gaming. For a moment I thought this was /v/.

Seriously, are you telling me that japanese games as so different in term of gameplay to western ones? I can't really see any reason to prefer one over the other if not for the "narrative", the "direction", the "atmosphere" or the "art". None of which has anything to do with gameplay at all.

I guess this thread is full of touhoufags, but even then that doesn't make sense. Touhou is FAR from being the shooter with the best gameplay.

To answer >>10174929 I really disagree with that. The narrative and the plot of a game drastically affects my enjoyment of it. For me, if you strip a video-game from its plot it becomes just something repetitive and inane, it's the narrative behind it that gives me the motivation to fight through the many challenges.

Your definition of video-game is very shallow and down to earth. You think that a video-game is just a game, to me video-games are art. And as artistic experiences I care about all the aspects of them, including story, music, art, and of course, gameplay.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10175169
No, I meant humanities profs. To be fair, I think they do realize their humanities jargon differs from how most computer types use the term. But they'll still mark you wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

60% narratist, 30% simulationist and 10% gamist is just right

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174998
Gran turismo

why is everyone talking out their ass in this thread and spouting their opinions as being facts?
Go to /v/
shit thread and I hope you all die

[Anonymous No.]

>>10175220
You don't praise music for the story.
You don't praise painting for the story.
You don't praise games for the story.

It's that simple.

That's not to say that multidisciplinary works of art cannot exist or excel in many categories (though the bar is much higher for them, as they need to be good at every form of art they employ AND make them work together). Just that it's necessary to separate them on the conceptual level to avoid misconceptions about what each of them ultimately are.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10175220
If you strip a game of its story, it ruins the replay and enjoyment for SOME people.
If you strip a game of gameplay content, then its a movie.
fuck you

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174978
I like they way you think, anon.

[Anonymous No.]

Your question is meaningless OP. Different games call for different criteria. I'm not asking for story when I play touhou or ikaruga. I'm not asking for gaming when I play ico or visual novels. And I can walk around in games like the witcher just to admire the landscape.

[Anonymous No.]

This is why I love Cave Story so much. There's dialogue and exposition, but it complements the game well and keeps it moving forward. A lot of events happen as you're still running about, or they're at least shown to the player instead of *told* to the player. The story isn't particularly deep or original, but it's engaging and fun.
Pixel struck a perfect balance, I think.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10175258
sucks to be you, I praise games for the story if the story is good and bitch if it's shit

and one of the reasons I listen to soundtracks almost exclusively is that they are connected to a certain story and scenes which makes them far more powerful then "raw", "empty" music

and if you think that story doesn't affect how you perceive a painting then lol, guess it's time to read Umineko

[Anonymous No.]

Even if the story is outstanding, if gameplay is good too, I tend to completely forget the story all together.

[Saegrimr !SHIELDM.mE No.]

If the game is fun and the story can at least acknowledge that the characters don't give a fuck about the laws of physics, I don't see the problem.

[Anonymous No.]

A game should be fun, not thought-provoking, deep or interesting. I realize this is a simpleton answer and there are exceptions, but this is how I feel about a lot of content. I listen to happy music like denpa song and synthpop because I think sounds that influence people's emotions should make everyone happy, not sad. People who write depressing music are worse than Hitler.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10175311
>I listen to happy music like denpa song and synthpop because I think sounds that influence people's emotions should make everyone happy, not sad. People who write depressing music are worse than Hitler.

Listening to depressing music when I'm upset makes me feel better.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10175311
Of course it's always about fun unless you're some kind of hipster, but thought-provoking, interesting things are more fun to some people. It's all a matter of taste.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10175311
HELL yeah, that's why AKB is great. It's a bunch of cute girls singing and dancing and having a good time, how can it not cheer you up?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10175291
You must have a shit taste in just about everything. So, even if you think the music is bad, if it was attached to some epic movie or story, it suddenly becomes good? Story in a video-game is like the sauce in a sandwich, and gameplay is like the meat. You can't have a sandwich without the meat just like you can't have a game without gameplay. Story can only add to the game itself; it is not a necessary factor. Sometimes, game developers get too distracted with the story and created shitty games with shitty gameplay.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10175291
I don't think you really understood what I'm trying to say. I also don't think I can really explain it any better, but it's worth trying, so...

No, you praise the story if it's good and bitch if it's shit. You don't praise the game. If you praise the game for the part that isn't a game, you are simply misguided.

If you're listening to music for the story they evoke, you don't really listen to music except for the most literal interpretation of the phrase. You're just using it as a tool to recall the feeling your mind associated it with. That's a valid thing to do, it's just different from enjoying music as music.

I'm not trying to take your enjoyment away from you. I just insist you stop labeling it as something it isn't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10175258
Invalid argument. You still go by the assumption that video-games are just games. They are not.

It's as if you said that you don't praise movies for the music, but you DO. And for the same reason you can praise a game for its music.

>>10175260
Nope it's not a movie, it's a kinetic VN, looks like you are in the wrong board.

Video-games ARE multidisciplinary works and should not be considered just for their game aspect.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10175391
Multidisciplinary works are multidisciplinary works. Things that "shouldn't be considered just for their game aspect" shouldn't be considered games.

[Saegrimr !SHIELDM.mE No.]

>>10175391
>>10175402
>Video-games ARE multidisciplinary works and should not be considered just for their game aspect.

Isn't that why we have "video games" and "visual novels" and "movies" as separate things.
When you take the game part out, you just have "video".

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174811
right in the middle

[Anonymous No.]

>>10175410
This. Films have music, and the soundtrack is an important part of most films. However, I still judge them as films.

Then again, there are terrible films with a great soundtrack, but all the depressing indie rock music in the world can't make Garden State enjoyable to watch.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

I don't care for story in games unless the main appeal of the game is its story. I can deal with a shitty story as long as it is fun to play, but it does not work vice versa; no matter how good the story is, if it's a bore to play I won't enjoy it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10175391
You are extremely 110% incorrect.
Videogames CAN be multidisciplinary or artful, that does not mean the entire videogame category is such.

Video GAME!!! GAME!!!
That means that above all else, it needs to have gameplay. That is the most important aspect of a videoGAME.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10175481

I agree. Simply because I install it and I can interact with it does not make it a game, there are "games" I would sooner consider an interactive art piece than a game. In the same way that a visual novel is not a game because I install it, it's more a graphic novel than a game.

[Anonymous No.]

Microsoft Word is my favourite game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10175561
Lotus Symphony Spreadsheets is my favorite game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10175367

yeah, your thought are soo deep that you can't even express them

[Anonymous No.]

>>10175565
Now I want Lotus Symphony Story, where Reimu battles against spreadsheets and graphs.

[Anonymous No.]

I can only enjoy a game when it excels in at least one of those areas. If it's just above average I can't enjoy it. It has to be good at what it does, that's all.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>10175190
N=100 G=0 S=0

Its about the story.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10174978
>My ideal RPG would be one where you spend days looking through spreadsheets, selecting characters and classes, changing how they look, tinkering with their equipment settings, and keeping track of a bunch of useless stats. And then maybe at the end you fight a battle or something.
>spreadsheets

http://www.eveonline.com/

As for myself, I agree with >>10175160. Games must be fun to play, but they're most interesting when they're also fun to experience. Realism is for faggots

[Anonymous No.]

I played Championship Manager a few years ago but I don't like football, so I named all the players after Touhous and pretended they were doing danmaku.

Spreadsheet games are fun.

[Anonymous No.]