/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Is ZUN going to make a Jesuit Touhou, throwing Roman Catholicism into Gensokyo's growing religious conflict?

[Anonymous No.]

I still don't understand why ZUN made a Touhou based on a Buddhist saint, but decided that she was a Taoist.

Has Taoism ever even had much influence in Japan?

[Anonymous No.]

We need Norse and Hindu 2hus as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063732
It has in the Okinawa region and the places that are full of chinks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063737
Those are even less relevant to Japanese history than Taoism.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063743
>>10063732
Wow you're dumb.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063743
I just want touhou to become SMT with cute girls.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063737
Christianity is relevant to Japanese history, those two aren't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063748
>name calling

Great counter point but tell me, when have Nordic Paganism and Hinduism ever been especially popular with the Japanese?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063751
Norse and Hindu share similarities with Shinto, more so than Christianity.

Christianity is a pig disgusting monotheism worship by equally disgusting white pigs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063755
And who might you be quoting?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063759
It's not about "similarities," it's about what's relevant to the Japanese people and their history.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063711
Hopefully not.

[Anonymous No.]

ZUN doesn't like Christianity because it's fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063759
I don't even know how to respond to this idiotic post.

Whatever similarities you think Shinto shares with Hinduism and Nordic paganism, neither of those religions are at all relevant to Japanese history.

Also, Hinduism doesn't have a lot to do with Shinto. Shinto is an animistic religion, Hinduism isn't. In Hindu religious thought, only humans posses Atman (the soul).

As far as the Norse believed in elves and fairies as nature spirits then yeah, I guess they were somewhat animistic. But they didn't have much to do with ritual purification. Ancient Judaism and Shinto were actually pretty similar in that respect.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063776
What's wrong with Christianity as opposed to any other religion, exactly?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063776
jew pls go

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063787
Being the largest religion in the world it makes it cool and edgy to hate on it

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063787
It's just like every other western religion. Some guy comes, he preaches about heaven, and people use his teaching to write a book and control the people. Religion in the west is just one scam after another.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063797
get a load of this yellow fever suffering faggot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063787

Because hating on christians is the new edgy hobby for new age teens.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063797
>western religion
>guy preaching about heaven
>write a book
>control people

Yeah fuck those Druids, and thems American Injuns too!

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063797
>Religion in the west is just one scam after another.

So Eastern religions can't be used to control people? Do you literally have no knowledge of Asian history whatsoever?

If not, let me introduce to you the following concepts: the Tibetan Buddhist theocracy, the Sri Lankan civil war, the Hindu caste system, and the Japanese warlord monks.

[Anonymous No.]

Implying

Get back Buddha Babies and Tao Toddlers, Christianity is here to save Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063797
As opposed to religion in the East?

Hindu's castes system isn't control? Emperor descended from the sun god isn't used for control?

You sound like you were plucked right out of a redditors ass, you ignorant fucking faggot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063810
>>10063813
>>10063801
Why /jp/ full of goody little Catholic boys and girls. I bet you little guinea pigs go to Church every Sunday.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063823
that looks like remilia
yeah there's her demon wings back there.
I don't get it.+

[None !FIreFlyLqM No.]

>>10063823
Unholy abominations need not apply.

[Anonymous No.]

How about some Egyptian mythology?

I'd love to see a scenario where there is a conflict between Osiris and Shikieiki that Reimu has to sort out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063819
God Bless Nobunaga and Hideyoshi for suppressing those tyrannical Buddhists.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063828
Oh shut the fuck up.

You're like those kids on /lit/ who bitch about Bible threads. Sometimes people on /lit/ want to discuss the Bible as literature but then shit posters like you show up who think that only a religious fundamentalist would have any interest at all in reading a holy book.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063836
I think that a Jesuit would be much more relevant, because they have actually had something to do with Japan.

ZUN's weaving this whole religious shitstorm in Gensokyo, shouldn't it mirror the religious conflicts that actually happened in Japan?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063844
But only a religious fundamentalist would have any interest in reading a holy book, and the Bible doesn't belong on /lit/. It belongs in a furnace, along with the Tanakh and the Quran.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063836
Wouldn't Maat be more suited in such a situation? I know Osiris runs the underworld, but Maat is the Egyptian god of Truth and Justice and the souls of the dead are weighed against her feather. She seems like she would have more in similar with Shikieiki than Osiris

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063849
So should we expect Reimu to curbstomp Byakuren and the Christian 2hu and use the Moriya shrine and Miko to control the people of Gensokyo?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063849
It doesn't have anything to do with historical reference. It has only to do with whatever ZUN wants.

[Unnamed Book-Reading Youkai !denX47.muQ!!XUU92Uht5OG No.]

>>10063828
I go to Mass regularly, so what?
It's better than what protestants do.
Every homily I hear at a Mass in the Extraordinary Form is comparable to a college lecture. It's really great.

But what in the world does your post have to do with otaku culture?

It'd be pretty interesting to see them being immune to Utsuho's nuclear attacks, much like the German Jesuits who survived the atomic blast at Hiroshima, due to the protection of Our Lady.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063857
What about the Sutras and the Bhagavad Gita?

Are you the same pop orientalist faggot who thinks that Eastern religious are magically immune from corruption and misuse?

If so then let me redirect you to this post >>10063819

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063857
You must be awfully bored to play devil's advocate so halfheartedly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063871
Please don't. You'll convince them that people are genuinely trying to proselytize on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063819
Confucianism took it a step in the right direction, though.

[Anonymous No.]

I think this was pretty cool for a fanmade 2hu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063857
Now that's what I call EDGY.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063866

>Reimu curbstomping Byakuren

>>10063857

>belongs in a furnace

Oh man this thread.

[Anonymous No.]

No kike 2hus please.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063864

Osiris could be the stage 6 boss with Maat being the stage 5 boss if that makes sense.

[Unnamed Book-Reading Youkai !denX47.muQ!!XUU92Uht5OG No.]

>>10063876
Who is ``them''?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063870
It is, a bit, in a sense.

Eastern religions typically allowed for corruption and provided specific ways to deal with it (mostly: shut up, you are meaningless, it will fix itself in a few generations)*.

Western religions follow Plato's example and insist that everything be pure, which is why they make every attempt to purify things (for varying values of `pure').
__________
* Except Shinto, which is has hardly any standardized dogma, and varies greatly between shrines.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063870
I never said that Eastern religions are immune to the same pressures of any religion. They should be observed more that Western ones because Western religions are much more popular than Eastern ones. They don't need as much attention as Eastern ones do. People should be more open-minded to religion, and having only 3 or 4 is no good when we can have much more.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063880

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063879
Confucianism is not a religion!

Confucius made a point of not discussing spiritual matters, even when his disciples asked him to. It says that like three times in the Analects.

The closet Confucius got to ever mentioned religious matters is when he chastised people for neglecting their ancestor worship.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063732
Much of Buddhism, such as "Pure Land" buddhism is infected with Taoist mysticism

Much of Buddhism, such as "Cha'an" buddhism is infected with Taoist philosophy and pedagogy

[Anonymous No.]

I want a jinn/ifrit Touhou who tries to spread Sharia law throughout Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063911
Then at what point does something become a religion? Belief in deities?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063912
Why do you say "infected"?

Do you dislike people being open-minded

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063889
Yeah, that does make sense come to think of it. Though personally, I'd have Isis as the stage 6 boss, Horus as the ex boss and Osiris as a phantasm stage boss.

[Anonymous No.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBo7Z_abiLE

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063919
Uh that one German anthropologist gave what I think is the best definition of religion, which is "religion is the belief in spiritual things."

Not deities specifically. Actually a lot of Buddhists are non-theistic.

But don't believe the morons who say that such Buddhists are atheists, because, for the most part, they aren't actually rejecting the notion of the divine, they're just skipping over that question.

Buddha said that people shouldn't ponder over cosmological questions about the divine and the beginning and ending of the cosmos and whatnot see, he said those questions just create confusion. They fell into his "noble silence" category.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063966
Buddhism is what threw me off, actually.

What about humanists? Or hippie cults who believe nature is intrinsically important, but not supernaturally so?

[Unnamed Book-Reading Youkai !denX47.muQ!!XUU92Uht5OG No.]

>>10063966
Buddha was agnostic.
Some people equate agnosticism to atheism.
Now, people who are "buddhist"...well there's so many strains of buddhism, that's something I won't bother addressing.

[Anonymous No.]

There's already a Buddhist nun Touhou. Wouldn't you want a Catholic nun/Jesuit Touhou?

Technically there isn't a female version of the Jesuits like there is for the Benedictines, but hey, youkai aren't supposed to be little girls either.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063857
And Gateless Gate?
And Journey to the West?
And the Sutras?

Please don't burn bully Otakukun

[Anonymous No.]

I see. /jp/ only likes Christianity because their notion of edgy is rejecting it, so they'll be counteredgy by accepting so they can dissociate themselves from weeaboos. Why does /jp/ hate weeaboos so much?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063989
>Buddha was agnostic.

Buddha talked about gods and spirits all the time, so no.

He was a Hindu to begin with, remember.

One of his stories is about the time he hung out with, uh, this one god, who had been around so long that he mistakenly believed himself to be the creator of the cosmos.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063867
Zun is clearly following a metaplot arc

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063989
That reminds me:
I've seen a few people complain about the agnostic/atheist divide, and some handy pictures have explained it to me.
Can you be a gnostic atheist? Would that be someone who believes in a god or gods but doesn't worship them? And can you be an agnostic theist?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063999
I just want a catholic wife to fug and make lods of babiez with.

[Anonymous No.]

Speaking of cults, I want a VHEMT Touhou:
http://www.vhemt.org/

She could be all brooding and control plants that try to kill everyone, so that Gensokyo can be returned to the fairies or the outside world.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064007
"Gnostic" means belief, and in a certain context it can mean whether someone believes that theism/atheism can actually be proven.

So a gnostic atheist would say "God doesn't exist and I know that for certain" while an agnostic theist would say "God exists but I can't know so for certain."

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063926
Because Taoism is a negative mystagogy. Pure land is utter bullshit.

Once Cha'an started conducting itself in ritualised Taoist forms it defeated the purpose of mingling Taoism and Buddhism and became Japan's religious justification of fascism.

Taoism's disregard for right thought and right action merely tail ends the samsara of being.

MIKO IS FASCIST SCUM, MIKO IS WHY JAPAN CANNOT BE NICE

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064029
I see, so theism doesn't strictly imply worship?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064029
Gnostic means knowledge, not belief. An agnostic atheist would say, "I don't know any gods."

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064032
I've heard that Taoism moved pretty far away from what that ox riding guy actually taught, and that it became intermixed with all sorts of mysticism and bullshit.

What would you know about that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064039
>I see, so theism doesn't strictly imply worship?

No, it does. Someone can worship God without believing that they can prove God's existence.

>>10064045
>Gnostic means knowledge, not belief.

Oh yeah. That's what I meant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064046
Well, to a certain extent Taoism became corrupted in good ways, such as water and land management pre-sciences. That's pretty cool.

In other ways Taoism became rote learnt Koans in Cha'an/Zen.

In other ways Taoism became Pure Land's mystic summoning shit.

That's right Byakuren is really Taoist. Magic, please go.

Reimu is a better Buddhist than Byakuren.

[Anonymous No.]

There should be a Freedom Loving Touhou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064032
Come down, little white piggy. You are really overexaggerating what actually happened.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064056
Okay, so an agnostic theist would be, for example, a Christian who believes in God but isn't sure He exists?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064065
We're talking about Gensokyo where magic girls shoot bullets at each other over tea. So I think that to equip a number of posters here to properly appreciate the religious themes of Toho, they might want understand the three ways of China.

I mean shit, people don't realise that Moriya Shrine is founded on Great Yamato Cult rape and that Suwako is more of an abused loli in the closet than Flan. Maybe we might need to distinguish Great Yamato Cult from the syncretic folk animism.

Yes Japan did have two competing and syncretised animist traditions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064071
Well yeah I guess. Someone who plays the safe side of Pascal's gambit.

That's just the definition of gnostic/agnostic that E've heard some people throw around though.

Generally speaking a theist is someone who believes in God, whether they believe that the existence of the divine is a provable fact or not, an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in God, and an agnostic is someone who sort of sits on the fence.

[Unnamed Book-Reading Youkai !denX47.muQ!!XUU92Uht5OG No.]

>>10064019
>speaking of cults
but only *3986 mentioned cults, and that was only offhand. Plus you didn't make your post as a reply to *3986.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064060
So the Taoist is actually a Buddhist and the Buddhist is actually a Taoist?

GODDAMNIT ZUN

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064087
Tell me about this Great Yamato Cult.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064096
I just meant because it was brought up generally, even if it was only by one person. It wasn't a response to him in particular. I was also doing a little bit of a joke because SOME WOULD ARGUE THAT many of the religions ITT can be classed as cults (at least satirically).

Are you happy now?

[Anonymous No.]

What if Touhou was it's own religion.

Would you follow it, /jp/?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064123
>I was also doing a little bit of a joke because SOME WOULD ARGUE THAT many of the religions ITT can be classed as cults (at least satirically).

Before Jonestown cult didn't have any negative connotations attached to it. "Cult" used to be synonymous with religion, though more specifically it could refer to one aspect or sect of a particular religion.

The mainstream definition of cult is a modern evolution of the word, see.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064108
Would you like to use scare quotes with that near bald accusation of tom foolery? Because that's intellectual bullying through rhetoric. Or perhaps add, "so-called"?

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3023190?uid=3737536&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=
4&sid=21101442552597
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Shinto
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinto#Origins

In particular the Yamato courts' displacement of multi-ethnic post-Jomon cultures; and, most significantly for Zun, the Yamato structuring of Shinto into a fascistic state religion.

Suwako broadly represents three religious traditions:
* Jomon religion
* non-Yamato Shinto
* Japanese peasant folk animism

By claiming Suwako is "impure" (see Sanae's very existence), Zun is riffing a pun off State Shinto's repression of other religious traditions in Japan—particularly Shinto's claim to be the one and only animism.

[Unnamed Book-Reading Youkai !denX47.muQ!!XUU92Uht5OG No.]

>>10064123
No, that made me feel worse.
I think we should delete all of these posts. Starting with 10064019 and ending with this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064139
If you take an classical studies courses in university, cult still means exactly that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064128
If I start a temple of touhou can I can tax exempt status from the federal government and NEET it up there?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064139
Guess what sense people are using it in here in 2012, chucklefuck.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064133
Isn't Moriya Shrine based on the Shrine in Nagasaki and the three gods there and traditions there?

[Anonymous No.]

Speaking of organized groups with a common belief, I want a VHEMT Touhou:
http://www.vhemt.org/

She could be all brooding and control plants that try to kill everyone, so that Gensokyo can be returned to the fairies or the outside world.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064141
Can we worship youkai?

I'd worship Shikieiki in order to receive her blessings of good judgement and because she's super cute.

[Anonymous No.]

Why are there so many cock-sucking nerds with degrees in religious studies on this board?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064176
My degree was in history, I just study religions as a hobby.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064176
I majored in biochemistry, I just took a minor's worth of credits in classics.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064169
>Shikieiki
>youkai

She's the Hindu/Buddhist god of judgement you moron.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064182
>history

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064176
I am a college dropout, I just happen to know a decent amount about religion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064176
Religious studies was one of the best classes I ever had.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064196
trold softly

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064148

Do I need to read behind the lines for you? :

>Like others among Japan's oldest shrines, Suwa Taisha does not have a honden, the building that normally enshrines a shrine's kami. This is because its objects of worship (shintai) are the mountain the shrine stands on (at the Kamisha) and a shinboku (神木 divine tree?) (at the Shimosha).[2]

Most shrines are built where previous religious activity occurred. Suwa shrine is 1200 years old, and is based on earth worship. The worship probably goes back to Jomon culture (such sites are often inherited, see the transmission of religion in Britain).

>From 1871 through 1946, Suwa was officially designated one of the Kanpei-taisha (官幣大社?), meaning that it stood in the highest range of ranked, nationally significant shrines.

Oh, what's that? Reduction to a nationalist and later fascistic cult and Yamato-cult centre?

Kanako and Suwako represent two differing visions of animism in Japan. One for and by the masses, one for and by the aristocrats. Which side are you on?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064190
don't bully pls

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064190
Yes, history.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064207
I'm for Sumiyoshi because sailing is fun and I don't want to drown!

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063828
We are pure and chaste little religious boys and girls.
Why can't the rest of 4chan be like us?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064207
Are you sure that you're not just reading too much into this? Can we be sure that ZUN knows his Japanese history and mythology this well?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064243
I wouldn't go as far as that anon, but ZUN seems to be well read and presents classic arguments for religions in Symposium.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064243
>that you're not just reading too much into this?

Look at Miyazaki's environmental-feminist-socialism which clearly draws the distinction between Central Cultism and peasant animist forest traditions. In particular the treatment of State Religion, forest religion, worker and environment in Princess Mononoke.

Everyone knows this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064255
>but ZUN seems to be well read and presents classic arguments for religions in Symposium

So he's like the modern Japanese equivalent of Aquinas or Descartes?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064259
I await your eventual dissertation on the subject.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064265
As I've said before, ZUN is the reincarnation of Da Vinci.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064265
Truly, he is one of the great minds of our time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064286
Indeed.

ZUN: programmer, composer, artist, author, historian, philosopher, theologian, and social critic

A true Renaissance man.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064301
Also, a thief.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064286
Resemblance?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064259
Tell me more about how Japan used Shintoism as a tool for fascist oppression, anonymous.

Oh and who represents the animistic traditions of the Japanese peasants, Kanako or Suwako?

[Anonymous No.]

You touhou faggots are worse than bronies.
Stop sucking ZUN's cock.

Ryu07 > ZUN.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064396

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064382
I'm really disappointed in you anonymous. You need to read more rape doijinshi.

Suwako represents authentic peasant culture.
Kanako represents Yamato-cultism.

Ex-Bosses have had a special affinity for mass politics ever since Mokou.

[Unnamed Book-Reading Youkai !denX47.muQ!!XUU92Uht5OG No.]

>>10064396
>faggots
>Ryuukishi07
>boyfriend died

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064429
>Suwako represents authentic peasant culture. Kanako represents Yamato-cultism.

Oh. I had assumed you meant the other way around.

>You need to read more rape doijinshi.

Is that what your research is based off of?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064382
I apologise for my harshness, I was upset at your lack of culture. Please watch some Akira Kurosawa films—most obviously Seven Samurai.

Regarding Shinto's oppressive use in the Showa, please read this first: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statism_in_Sh%C5%8Dwa_Japan

I guess that vidya about the cute white puppy is actually a class-a fucking war criminal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064435
Hilarious image.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064446
>Please watch some Akira Kurosawa films—most obviously Seven Samurai.

I've seen plenty of black and white Japanese cinema, man!

I had one of the movies based on the story of that samurai and his murdered wife's ghost recorded but someone deleted it.

[Anonymous No.]

HEY HISTORY ANON IS IT TRUE THAT THE LUNARIANS ARE A THINLY-VEILED REFERENCE TO ISOLATION-ERA JAPAN?????

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064442
>>Rape doijinshi
>Is that what your research is based off?

There are a number of excellent Suwako rape doijins that discuss the difference between Jomon and Yamato culture, and this discussion is phrased in terms of the difference between Peasant and Aristocratic culture.

The difference between peasant cultures and aristocratic cultures are very clear in feudal societies; and, in particular as the "defeated" party, Suwako is on the side of the peasants, the mass; whereas as the ascendant party Kanako is on the side of Shinto Purity and Yamato Blood Purity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064464
Who would have thought that Touhou rape doujins possessed such subtly and depth?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064460
Consider that Eirin, Udonge and Teruyo are all class-a war criminals. I think they refer to the Showa Era's "excesses" in China. It is no coincidence that Mokou is the phoenix. More disturbing is that Japanese Showa fascism is eternal, no matter how many times 20th Airforce drops Mokou on Tokio.

Consider also that the Battle of 1969 is a well accepted trope. Fucking Moon Bitches man, controlling the Diet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064472

[Anonymous No.]

never.

[Anonymous No.]

calling it right now, St. Francis Xavier loli

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Xavier#Japan

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064480
Are they ever referenced as Class-A war criminals?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064480
>You will never be a samurai, slaughtering the filthy Chinese with your superior Japanese technology ;_;

[Anonymous No.]

>>10067956
who are you quoting?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10067956
This is a statement. No need to quote it.

[Anonymous No.]

Yumemi and remilia's cross shaped danmaku are enough to represent christianity

[Anonymous No.]

>>10067918
Alice and Marisa vs Kaguya?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10063776
le edgy post, ZUN never stated such thing dumbass, fuck off

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064176
culture

[Anonymous No.]

>>10068031
Just read the script.

Nothing mentioned about that at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10068059
>>Aforementioned Script:
>A: You will be punished by God for foolish actions like this.
>K: That sounds unpleasant...
>K: However, my stay on Earth is already a godly punishment as well...

combine it with SDM and PCB scripts and it is a not unreasonable interpretation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10068263
She was exiled to Earth, doesn't make her a war criminal.

The same goes for Eirin and Udonge.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10068449
No, but it does make it a viable interpretation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10068526
For Udonge, I could see that more since ZUN never iterates on just why she ran away in the first place.

I will agree with your interpretation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10068640
Under Black Tewi rules of course.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10068661
Again, agreed.

But that's what I like about Touhou. It's open to interpretation which allows the fans to come up with some nifty theories and what-not.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10068669
So under Black Tewi—

If Eintei is full of former class-a war criminals (which riffs off the Lunar wars, and particularly off Eirin's illegal experiments), then it make Eintei closely associated with Japan's rule over Korea during the Showa period.

Which probably makes Mokou Korean—remember how many Koreans were living in Japan during early and mid Showa?

And it all turns beautiful because Keine is a bad historian who falsifies the past.

Zun doesn't like nationalism much.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10064045
I thought Gnosticism was a sect that broke off from mainstream Christianity. It got shat on by Augustine and co.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10070466
Gnostics, in the atheism debate, believe that Knowledge of the issue of God's existence can be known.

Gnostics, the ancient Christian cult, believed they could actually _know the mind of God_

[Anonymous No.]

>>10070466
Gnosticism is waaay older than Christianity. It has roots that go back to Zoroastrianism.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10070539
Yeah... and Christianity's roots go back to Babylonian and Egyptian myth reinterpreted.

Big deal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10070531
>Gnostics, the ancient Christian cult, believed they could actually _know the mind of God_

Gnostics believed that they were privy to secret knowledge (gnosis) which God revealed to them, and that the physical world was evil and created by the demiurge, an evil being that was lesser than the real god. Their goal was to alleviate themselves from the physical world and matter, because the spiritual was good and matter was evil. It's a bunch of nonsense, really.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10070552
Not really, it's all based on a single man who lived and died. It's considered an addendum to Judaism but it's still based only after Jesus.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10070570
That's not correct. The Old Testament is extremely important in Christianity, and Christianity is seen as the same religion as Judaism, albeit a new covenant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10070577
I know, that's why I said it's considered an addendum to Judaism. But it's still based in its entirety on Jesus. If you remove everything about Jesus from Christianity you just have Judaism.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10070590
But it's not entirely based on Jesus. (According to Christians) Jesus is the Jewish messiah. He is the messiah promised to the Jews, who would bring a new covenant and bring in the Gentiles. To say it's "based in its entirety" on Jesus is silly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10070602
Call it silly if you want but that's Christianity. Jesus had a habit of retconning Judaism and condemning legalism. Christianity uses his teachings and rewrites of reinterpretations of alternate takes on everything Jesus said and churn that into all of their theology. Then they take that as a lens to look through all of the Torah and say "oh this says Jesus was coming" or "see this means the trinity" or "..and that person was one of Jesus' ancestors."

[Anonymous No.]

>>10070552
christianity is pretty much a frankenstien of religions it takes many legends and stories

revelations is pretty much one guys wish that the roman empire would fuck off its SAO-tier writing

[Anonymous No.]

>>10070641
>christianity is pretty much a frankenstien of religions it takes many legends and stories

Not really. It is a direct extension of judaism. You can argue about the influence of Greek philosophical thought if you want, but the connections drawn between eastern religions, greek mystery cults, etc. are overblown and stem from 19th century anti-semitism.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10070570
>but it's still based only after Jesus.
Get out shit face. The OT was accepted as canonical.

Fucking secondaries.

[Anonymous No.]

there's already a sun deity, two would be just silly. also, christian saints are lame.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10070689
He's advocating a very old Christian heresy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism

[Anonymous No.]

>Jesus had a habit of retconning Judaism and condemning legalism.

No, this is Essenes + Pharisees. Jesus is a Pharasetical Essene teacher.

Christianity is what happens when Greeks demand a person to worship and a right to not cut off their foreskin.

Read Acts and Letters you secondary.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10070704
I know. Were I Christian, I would be "heretical" to the extent that the Pauline "Jesus actually meant he was God" thing sounds appalling to me. Also because Gospel of Thomas > Synoptics > Paul

But to deny the OT is just stupid—Marcionism is a recurrent heresy in the contemporary United States by the way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10070700
Been there, read that. Those Greeks certainly didn't want to be circumcised but that has nothing to do with the creation of Christianity so much as the evolution of Christian evangelism.

>>10070689
Remove the new testament and you have the old testament. Basing your religion entirely on the Torah is Judaism. The new testament contains the good news of what Jesus had to say, and books about Jesus' disciples spreading the news about Jesus and then a book at the end talking about how Jesus will rule the world. Remove all that and it's just Judaism.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10070731
Are you familiar with Robert Eisenman? You might find his book "James the Brother of Jesus" to be very interesting, given his theories on the role of Paul in early Christianity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10070749
>[Greek circumcision]
The central point here is that Jesus prior to Pauline Q was a teacher within a Pharisee-Essene cross-over sect that had a major appeal to Righteous Gentiles and samaratans. Post Paul it turns into a non-monotheistic religion aimed at fucking Greeks. Fuck them stupid greeks.

>>10070749
>NT is Christ
Nope. Jesus' message is a standard Pharisee recapitulation of an Essene message. I don't see how difficult you find this. The only unique contexts are in Acts as retransmitted after 100, and in Paul's letters. If you can't see that this change in the cult surrounding the message of a reinterpretation of the immanence of the Father's relationship, then I don't see how you should be reading these texts at all. Do you even interpret R07?

>>10070751
No, but I did Pre-100 Christianity in Theology 2. The discussions on Judaism's liminal moments in this era was great. I find the imposition of later (just) traditions onto the texts in this period to be peverse. Especially when you read non-canonical gospels as evidence of non-Pauline and non-Greco-Roman traditions. (and obviously alternate ones.)

Comparing Q to Thomas in this instance reflects remarkably on, say, Luke.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10070782
Can I interpret your posts as being less condescending than they sound? I'm rusty on jargon so I guess I'll have to touch on this myself later. If I can move the goal line a bit the issue I have with historiography and whatever the equivalent of that for theology is, is that the people working on such things have to force constant reinterpretations and "rediscoveries" so they can write books and stay in business. I'm not a terribly competitive person so I always have to wonder how much reinterpretations are biased by the basic need for the people reinterpreting to reinterpret simply to stay relevant and make a damned living.

At the very least this seems to have gotten some more people interested in the subject, cheers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10070832
Mostly these people actually believe in what they're doing. Regarding developments in Theology, it is mostly due to changes in the theory of interpretation, and the availability of new archaeological and textual evidence—and the deeper analysis of past textual evidence to produce better hypotheses.

The story hasn't really changed much in a hundred years, except that eisegesis*1 has come back into style in some areas of religiously motivated theology.

*1 Eisegesis is a technical word for "making shit up in faith." most documentary readers deny the value of eisegesis. However there are some Greek Orthodox who use it legitimately (they're kind of like Saints of Orthodoxy almost, Lama grade thinkers); and, of course, a shitload of US protestdumb thinkers.

As a living text for man, the text changes as man changes. As a living hypertext, the text changes as we reinterpret old texts and use more powerful linguistic analysis on them. But mostly the "hypertext" remains static. Gospel of Thomas' importance is in the last hundred years.

Overall Jesus starts looking more, and yet more Jewish. And the idea of a unique "Pauline" break becomes more and more acceptable.