/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

What do y'all think about the Akihabara@deep series? For me it feels like a very well done depiction of the early 2000's otaku culture

[Anonymous No.]

I guess jaypee didn't like @DEEP. That sucks, but I thought it was a pretty good show. The entire cast's hyper autism was pretty fun to watch, and I thought it had a lot of genuinely funny moments. It didn't haven as many super obscure references as you'd think would come from a show of this nature (unless you count Darma's bullshit), but it was still pretty cool, and I especially loved the set design of the heroes' office. But can you really call it a depiction of the early 2000s? I think it'd be better to call it a depiction of pre-Haruhui, pre-Akihabara massacre otaku culture. But I guess at the point, I'm just being pedantic.

I remember reading somewhere that the first episode of the show was based on the post-Koaru Kobayashi murder. That's how I initially found out about the show. I can't find that information at all now, can someone confirm?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20437736
>I guess jaypee didn't watch @DEEP.
ftfy

[Anonymous No.]

>>20437736
>I guess jaypee didn't like @DEEP

because it's a touhou board, better to post in the drama thread. anyway I liked it but too tired to really say much

[Anonymous No.]

>>20437736

Looks interesting, I'll watch ep1 when I wake up and eat breakfast

[Anonymous No.]

where can i watch with subs?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20439010
The whole series is up on YouTube.
>>20438189
Yeah that's fair. It didn't have anything resembling a cultural impact like what Haruhi did to otaku culture or how Densha Otoko affected Japan's public perception. It doesn't really seem to have much of a cult following either. I only stumbled upon it randomly myself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20439174
thanks. saw a bit and I like it, dont watched any jap drama before

[Anonymous No.]

I liked it a lot when I watched it in 2008. I even purchased the VAIO PCG C1, fuck.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20439174
>Densha Otoko
Now THAT was a dorama... They don't make 'em like that no more *zips strong*

[Anonymous No.]

I have heard of it but haven't watched it. I wonder if it can pass on the same spirit as Densha Otoko. Certainly nothing as grim as Otaku no Video, though. Are there any well-known documentaries about otaku culture?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20442536
There's not really any "famous" ones, unless you count OnV, which isn't really that famous. The one I always point people to is Akihabara Geeks from 2005 (also availible on YouTube). It's more about all of the different cultures that were centered in Akiba at that time, than about otaku specifically, because at that time it wasn't just for otaku. Another good one is The Secret World of Comiket by NHK (again, on YT). The name is pretty kitschy, but it's actually a pretty interesting look into the various happenings at the event.
>>20442153
You have your voice synthesis program installed, I'm sure?
>>20442172
Aside from @DEEP and DO, I actually haven't watched any other dramas. I wouldn't assume that there's a lot of dramas about/for otaku, considering most don't seem to watch them. At least, there's not a shit ton of doujin about dramas to challenge that idea.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20444245
Thank you for the suggestions.
Densha Otoko portrays a relatively open Akihabara, of a Japan less prejudiced against otaku as it was in the late 80's and throughout the 90's. Densha Otoko, as far as I read, actually normalized otaku in Japan to the point of the word "moe" being phased out of use, as it stopped being exclusive in use by otaku.
Otaku no Video was created at a time of great suspicion and worry from otaku-incited violence, and it paints an image of the old-world. The production scrutinized otaku so harshly, it's safe to assume it too, was slanted against them, at least in part.

With this in mind, I watched the first episode of Akihabara@Deep. The plot is nuts and the humor shifts between cracking and embarrassing, but I'll continue watching it. It's ultimately pretty cute, but won't reach the extent of Densha Otoko.

>>20437736
Could you tell me of the influence of Haruhi and the Akihabara massacre in the mid-2000's?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20445051
Otaku no Video is honestly one of my favorite pieces of media that exists, not just because of the content (which is great, don't get me wrong), but also because of the concept. You'd have to be pretty ballsy to release something like OnV right in the wake of the "Otaku Murderer" incident. But at the same time, it's tasteful, and it comes clean. It says, yeah, we're a bunch of weirdos, and we have our problem children, but at the end of the day we're just a group of people brought together by the passion we have for our hobbies. I really have to wonder what the otaku community of 1991 thought about it. I would do unspeakable things to know the discussions they had about it.

I also really like Densha Otoko, but I do wish that there was more focus on the actual threads that inspired the uber successful media adaptations. S still, those adaptations really improved Japan's cultural view of otaku, which I think is a good thing in the long run, so I can't complain too much.

>Could you tell me of the influence of Haruhi and the Akihabara massacre in the mid-2000's?
>>20437736 is me as well. Haruhi's success is extremely well documented, but I think it's still pretty understated. Hero Academia, Sword Art Online, and Attack on Titan have extremely wide appeal across languages and cultures, but Haruhi is pretty much one of the most otaku-centric things you could possibly make. But the light novel still moved 4 million units in its first two months, everyone and their yaoi paddle holding grandma knew the Hare Hare Yukai, and it paved the way for Sword Art Online to exist, for better or for worse. Haruhi was the first true massive otaku cultural phenomena to happen in a long time (probably since Tokimeki Memorial honestly), and because of how the anime/otaku community works now, it could be the last one for a good while.

On the other hand, the effects of the Akihabara massacre are a lot harder to define. There was definitely a huge sense of unrest in Akihabara right after that time, as can be seen from the massive lists of copycat threats and arrests made right after the massacre. But events like this have a much more subtle effect on a community. Maybe someday someone will gather up a bunch of experts on Japan, otaku culture, sociology, and psychology, and then we'll get a more solid answer, but until then, all I can tell you is to watch a video of Akiba from the 2000s, and a video of Akiba today (preferably one without some random gaijin screaming into the camera about how much hentai they're gonna buy), and you might be able to feel that something is just... different. Aside from the obvious shit like certain works rising and falling in popularity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20447301
Otaku no Video was a strange piece of media, two full-length episdoes, half-anime, half-documentary, both explaining and parodying otaku culture, which was at the time almost sinful. It scrutinized otaku for the extent of their hobbies, but also showed that these hobbies are also a part of otherwise normative office workers. I'm astonished by how openly some of them would speak of their hobbies, like it was a taboo breach of privacy. I don't think any non-otaku who watched it would think much better of otaku afterwards, but at the very least, it provided a glimpse into their world.

Densha Otoko swept Japan over. It was immensely popular with prime time viewing rates skyrocketing. I don't blame the production for being a little creative, because the original material was basically a collection of dubious threads, which cannot completely be trusted to come from the same person. It brought internet culture to the mainstream, and gave heartfelt representations of various forms of otaku activities, not only anime and manga but baseball, trains and shoes. The original forum threads were perhaps the first internet event to stir the physical Japan to that extent, and I am grateful for the adaptation, to have remained culturally relevant to this day.
I actually heard a funny story from a Japanese person around two years back, about how Densha Otoko caused Electric Light Orchestra's "Twilight" and the theme album it originated from, "Time", to be registered in the Japanese mindset as "otaku music". Even today, some, upon seeing the name Electric Light Orchestra, think back to those times, as this same song was used for Densha Otoko's opening sequence. Though this is only half-truth, because the production of Densha Otoko based the opening sequence on DAICON IV's opening animation, which used(plagiarized) the same song more than 20 years earlier - made by the same people to produce Otaku no Video in the middle point between these two occurrences.

I know that Haruhi's success within Japan was phenomenal. In memory, it is also caused the largest cultural explosion in Western anime scenes. I wonder if it also caused anime streaming(the most accessible method of watching anime at the time) to become more common. I remember watching Haruhi in 2006-2007, but I wasn't yet exposed to it influence on anime communities around me. It's a good question how other Western otaku traditions developed over the two, three years following Haruhi. Take for example Azumanga Daioh's popularity in the west before and after Haruhi. Anime like Lucky Star, which were a hit in Japan, translated immediately to a massive fan following among Western anime fans. It's like Haruhi was the uplink to global anime culturalism.

I linked an image of catalogs I recently purchased for research on changes within doujin culture in the late 90's. As can be seen, the Comiket committee update the covers of the catalogs to reflect a scrolling change in Japanese otaku culture. What's peculiar is that Shiori Fujisaki, the lead bishoujo of Tokimeki Memorial, makes an appearance on the cover of Comic Market 61 of 2001! The echoes of Tokimeki Memorial were still felt several years later, and indeed, there were also doujin arrangement CDs of Tokimeki Memorial, and likely plenty of doujinshi as well.


I'll be sure to keep note of different perspectives of Japan in those two periods. Before and after 2008... I'd also like to ask, fearing the longevity of this thread, for a method of contacting you for more information. I'd certainly like to discuss this more in depth over a less transient medium.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20447301
>all I can tell you is to watch a video of Akiba from the 2000s, and a video of Akiba today (preferably one without some random gaijin screaming into the camera about how much hentai they're gonna buy), and you might be able to feel that something is just... different
I don't know about the Akihabara itself but 2000's and before otaku culture are REALLY different compared to the post 2010's ones man

With the rise of social media and post 2010's popular mainstream anime, I don't know the exact reasons myself but I'm very sad that most otaku cultures are about attention whoring and post 2010's popular titles attract a bad kind of nerd demographics and ironic weebs. I don't think cringelords/weirdos/attention whores at cons are different in the past compared to now but their main motivations are clearly different. Now the ironic weebs and people who clearly take participation in otaku cultures just for fame/money are the majority. I'm not elitist in the sense that the beginner ones in the hobby is a pleb but I'm an elitist that people who aren't interested in the slightest about the hobby shouldn't fish for fame and worship from loser otaku nerds just because they can't and don't have the capacity to fish fame in real normalfags world.

tl;dr, one of the reasons that makes otaku cultures different now is that failed chad/stacey-wannabe normalfags who fail at fishing for fame/worship in normalfags world turn to otaku hobbies because otaku hobbies is pretty mainstream now. they seek attention and approval from us losers because they can'tdon't have the capacity to fish attention from normalfags. It's this reason that I honestly think that more otaku should be more socially well-versed and successful in life, because those kind of people are disliked by common normalfags so they turn their target to lowest losers/common denominators like otaku

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449066
Also, I actually love and enthusiastic to attend my country cons until ironic weebs and failed chad/stacey-wannabe normalfags become the majority and the nerds/real weirdos become the minority. Me and my school friends at the time are attention whores too but our main motivation are having fun and nerding out with each other, we aren't seriously competing for attention like the majority of demographics today. Combine that with the advent of social media and narcisstic tendencies of today's people, and everything start to goes down the shitter

I don't know if it's the same case in Japan or Akihabara but it's clearly the case in other countries for otaku hobbies. And seeing that Akihabara is the central for otaku hobbies, this may explain why

[Anonymous No.]

>>20448419
>Even today, some, upon seeing the name Electric Light Orchestra, think back to those times, as this same song was used for Densha Otoko's opening sequence.
Not only was the song used in two of the most important and recognizable pieces of media in otaku culture, but since DO aired, pretty much whenever traditional Japanese media does a piece about otaku/comiket/akiba/etc, they almost always use it. I'm sure modern Japanese people know the song better than 70's British kids.

Hopefully this isn't overstepping too much, but are those Comiket catalogs the collection that was Amazon for a while? If so... small world, but I'm glad another person who really cares about this stuff acquired them.

>I'd certainly like to discuss this more in depth over a less transient medium.
I'm gonna do my best to keep this thread alive as long as possible. Even though we've kind of derailed it talking about other otaku metamedia instead of just @DEEP (sorry op), these are my favorite threads to have. There's only so many meta threads about otaku culture that happen here in a given year. If anyone remembers the "New Otaku vs Old Otaku" thread we had waaaaay back, that was one of my favorites. But outside of here, I'm pretty much in the same places as everyone else; Twitter, Discord, etc. I know some users on here have some withholdings about certain social media sites, so whichever is good for you, I can link you to.

>>20449066
>>20449114
I want to get back to you on this, because I have a lot to say about this topic.

[Anonymous No.]

As I keep watching AKIHABARA@DEEP I'll post my thoughts.

>>20449202
This time I spent watching 'Akihabara Geeks' though. It shows how important the mid-2000's were as transition periods of Akihabara. It's before bishoujo artwork covered every skyscraper there was in there.
The image of otaku in there is the same one conveyed through Densha Otoko and the first episode of @DEEP - it seems in reality, too, otaku was relatively free-spirited at the time. People felt relatively comfortable doing what they liked - it was a paradise compared to how it was a decade back.

The TV drama of @DEEP aired only about a year following the documentary, and Densha Otoko's success. Though the main characters themselves are exaggerated, they still portray a happy-go-lucky, stepping-out-of-bounds sort of otaku, which are excited and delighted not only to partake in their hobbies, but do so with others, in daylight, out in the open - so very unlike the hidden, reclusive geeks of Otaku no Video.

I'd also like to speak of Ajita's role in the first episode - it's not something I felt from the documentary nor from Densha Otoko or Otaku no Video, though it's not something I'm seeing for the first time. In the 90's many people from my country would run carts in Japan, selling souvenirs - one of them selling counterfeit jewelry for so long, he saved up enough to start his own brand of jewelry, now very successful within Japan("Bless"). I can only assume there were many more of Indian and South Asian descent, swarming Tokyo with their carts and stands, selling all that came to hand. As episode 1 of @DEEP puts it, from electronics to pornographic magazines and even fireworks. I think this inclusion gives the Akihabara portrayed in @DEEP a very true feel of what basically amounts to any big city. It lightheartedly portrays their own share in the traffic of Akihabara, for good or bad. It's really cool.

Either of the two given options, Discord or Twitter, will do. I'll also be staying here for as long as possible. The catalogs were not on Amazon, but on Mercari, the hellish second-hand marketplace. I'll be receiving the catalog for C63 soon, and perhaps more in the future. The DVDs for Akihabara Geeks and Otaku no Video also deserve space on my shelves, so I'll look into getting them.


>>20449066
If you want to change how the otaku community is, you have to begin from inside, in the local sector.Give to your community by volunteering for conventions, giving out presentations about otaku topics, and write articles in your local language about various fields that would otherwise not be accessible. Not all of us have the creative spirit of doujin that fuels Japanese fans, but as long as we're energetic and enthusiastic, we can do to enrich our communities. We don't have to watch them sink. Slowly but surely you'll find more and more quality fans surrounding you.

We have a local fan magazine dedicated to this purpose. It's not very popular, but we bring in-depth surveys of various otaku fields in the local language. I'm working hard on my own to set up a beginning for a domestic Touhou community to gather all of those who were curious but didn't take the first step in.
I don't think you can fight it by "purging" those who wish to make quick buck or fame off the otaku community. Only by showing dedication exemplary of a true otaku, you can forge the basis for a refined community.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449066
>>20449114
The western otaku community has always been tiny, fragmented, and way oversized by normalfriends who watch DBZ and Naruto. the fact that /jp/ doesn't have all of /m/, /a/, and /c/'s content is (despite the circumstances of why they're actually all split) proof of that. The big change that happened when Attack on Titan came out and anime got super popular again, pretty much dwarfing the size of the community from the heyday of The Big 3, was that western anime culture by and large got swallowed up by the nerd culture conglomerate. There's still a lot of small units holding out and "staying true to the path" or whatever, but the majority of anime fans now are really just your standard western nerds who happen to have anime in their toolbelt of things they're into. If you look at the profile of an western anime artist and a western video game artist, they tend to be more similar than a western anime artist and a Japanese touhou artist, even though their source material is cut from the same cloth. And when I say the nerd conglomerate, I'm essentially just talking about the type of people who use(d) tumblr and write things like
>oml i fucking cant [insert random character] is a precious cinnamonrolll asidibefbiwee
>we literally stan a YAS SLAY queen
And other "zoomer speak". I'd assume that that's why you find conventions and the like unbearable now, because I think it's safe to say that considering we're discussing this on a board full of idolfriends, Touhou cultists, and other random niche groups, western nerd culture probably didn't click with us, so having their customs and ways seemingly completely replace all of the stuff we fell in love with is a massive pain in the ass. But it's not all bad. We're here, and despite the fact that there's a huge contention against the idolfriends, at least they're not the absolute menace that is K-pop fans. /m/ and /c/ may be separate from us, but at least we're all on the same site, so we're closish. There's other organizations scattered about as well. There's a whole group of people on the US east coast that do wotagei and chikage events pretty regularly both at conventions and at their own events that they host. The communities for the Bushiroad card games are all extremely otaku-esque, and despite their communities being way smaller then stuff like Pokemon, YuGiOh, and Magic, they're still doing their thing. Same with anime fighting games, retro anime fans, and tokusatsu. Of course, we all know the Touhou community is going strong, no matter how many people say it's reclining.

I guess my point is that yeah, things kind of suck right now for those of us who identify with the old ways of otaku, but if you look around, you can find remnants of it scattered around, so it's not all bad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20450827
>the majority of anime fans now are really just your standard western nerds who happen to have anime in their toolbelt of things they're into
Isn't that what otaku were though? When you look at old Japanese otaku stuff, you get all kinds of western sci fi and tabletop games mixed in.

>normalfriends who watch DBZ and Naruto.
What's /a/'s problem with long running fighting shows anyway? Dragonball, JJBA, and HnK are extremely important to otaku culture.

Western anime fans are unnecessarily elitist in a weird way. I don't think they'd get along with older Japanese anime otaku.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449522
>write articles in your local language about various fields that would otherwise not be accessible
Like how the fuck do you even publish this? Through your diy local fan magazine? I personally prefer actually good "alternative" medias/news so I respect people like you man

I do give to my community by keep practicing drawing and music playing everyday, personally I plan to make an active circle that create doujin music and art when the time's right (still saving money to buy the equipments though, all the gear needed are expensive as fuck lol)

But as an older fan, honestly that's pretty much the extent of my ability to participate other than consuming. For older folks, once jobs and families/friends come up, the little spare time we have either goes to hobbies or other socializations. I still engaged with otaku hobbies but I can't participate in local weeb communities hangout much because life comes up and (for me, dunno for others) it's much easier, better, and there are bigger chances to find decent/great people to hangout/socialize/expand my circles outside of otaku communities (in my case its local neighborhood associations and social volunteering). I still meet up with my old otaku friends though even if it's a very rare occasion

All in all I agree that not everything's bad, it's just that the bad ones almost completely outnumber the good ones so I'm just a little bit annoyed. Hopefully the number of people with real passion that replace the older ones balance out. It's not exactly limited to otaku hobbies but for any culture (and to some extent languages), once the people with real passion/interest lost and the culture is dying, to make that culture alive again is much more harder and it will rarely be the same like before

>>20450952
>What's /a/'s problem with long running fighting shows anyway?
The shows and even people's taste aren't the problem you know, just that popular shows tend to attract many people including the bad kind of nerds, and people often just blame the shows for it cause it's much easier that way

[Anonymous No.]

>>20450952
>Western anime fans are unnecessarily elitist in a weird way. I don't think they'd get along with older Japanese anime otaku.
Should add that western anime fans clearly won't get along with modern Japanese anime otaku either in the case of ironic weebs and failed attention whore normalfags. Beginners who have shit/pleb taste or only know beginners stuffs but still actually interested with it are usually okay in person despite being weirdos but the ironic weebs and failed attention whore normalfags are rarely okay

[Anonymous No.]

>>20439174
>The whole series is up on YouTube.
Thanks for the heads up. Going to check it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449066
>Now the ironic weebs and people who clearly take participation in otaku cultures just for fame/money are the majority.
It makes sense. They are our MOPs and our sociopaths.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20450952
>Isn't that what otaku were though? When you look at old Japanese otaku stuff, you get all kinds of western sci fi and tabletop games mixed in.
When you're specifically talking about the types of media that was consumed, then yes, old school otaku and old/new school western nerds were geeking out about the same content. My dad was a big fan of Tranzor Z and Battle for the Planets, dubs of Mazinger Z and Gatchaman. However, over time, the two cultures grew farther and farther apart, with the each preferring their own homegrown media. Western nerd culture ended up still using some anime as it's base, while otaku culture pretty much stopped using western media as a core base by the time we get to the 90's. Which brings us to your next point...

>What's /a/'s problem with long running fighting shows anyway? Dragonball, JJBA, and HnK are extremely important to otaku culture.
And this is where we start running into the age old questions of "what exactly is otaku culture?" and "where does anime fandom end and otaku culture start?". Obviously stuff like visual novels, maid cafes, and the concept of moe can be specifically linked to otaku culture, but some topics are more dubious. What anime are important to anime fandom, versus anime that are important to otaku culture? To what extent are cosplayers a part of otaku culture, versus being their own thing separate from the rest of the meta-community? Obviously there are otaku who like Dragon Ball, HnK, and JJBA (just look at the otaku idol Shokotan), but are those shows really that important when we're talking specifically about otaku culture? The thing is, despite everything, we're not really a cult yet. There's no rules or guidelines to being otaku, so the only thing we have to go off of to define otaku is cultural codifiers and what the people who call themselves otaku say, but when the cultural codifiers cross over with other cultures, that's where things get muddled. This becomes especially true in the west, because here, in addition to (just like in Japan) some anime being well known among people outside of any communities having to do with the topic (the Big 3, DBZ, and Pokemon), anime is essentially a part of two conglomerates: otaku culture and nerd culture. So trying to figure how the 4D Venn Diagram of all these different groups fits together is kind of a nightmare, which is part of why I think hardcore anime groups tend to keep those more "troublesome" anime out of their midst entirely; it just makes things easier to codify as "belonging".

>Western anime fans are unnecessarily elitist in a weird way. I don't think they'd get along with older Japanese anime otaku.
Western fandom is kind of weird in general, because instead of being separated by the type of content we like (like how otaku are divided by their type), here we're divided by the type of person we are (people who write long winded bullshit like me, vs people who write the YAS SLAY QUEEN type stuff, for example). That makes the idea of someone not being a "real fan" an actual issue when it comes to maintaining community, which unsurprisingly is something that some members of communities care very strongly about. It's hard to legitimately call someone a "fake nerd" because they don't act the same way as people in your specific community.

>>20454558
This theory about MOPs and sociopaths is interesting, but I feel like it really waters down some concepts of sociology. Diving all of a subculture into Group A and Group B and then saying that Group B is the cause of Group A's downfall means that you're not accounting for a bunch of other important variables. Especially when we're talking about otaku culture, which is essentially a bunch of "weird hobbies" (as your source puts it) combined into one subculture with the main connecting threads being crossover between the various media (the crossover between anime, visual novels, games, seiyuu, idols, and tokusatsu is humongous) and our fanaticism for those media. The big thing that the theory fails to recognize is that unless you're a literal cult with a literal Bible, no one group owns a type of media, even if they're the original fans. Otaku don't own anime. Potterheads don't own the Harry Potter series. Other people are free to enjoy those media without having to participate in hyper autistic gatherings about them. If a piece of media has enough broad appeal, then it's only natural that a lot more "normal" people are gonna make up the community then people who are SUPER into it. This isn't because sociopaths will it, and I feel like the theory puts a lot of emphasis on the idea that the people are willed into fandom by a third party. This really isn't the case, and if you knew more normalfriends, that would be self-evident. So yeah, I'm not entirely convinced.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449522
The point about Aijita and the foreign cart vendors of early(er-ish) Japan were really insightful, and I never really thought about him that way. I always just considered him to be a goofy side character, but it seems there's more to his inclusion than meets the eye. I still haven't read the original novel, manga, or seen the movie, but I need to see if his inclusion is only in the drama, or was always apart of the story (considering how integral he is in the entire plot, you might think the answer is obvious, but a lot was changed between the original novel and the drama). By the way, I'm on Twitter as "otastorian", so hit me up sometime so we can talk more about this stuff.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20454849
I don't think >>20454558 is implying that the original fanatical fans own what they are fans of. It simply describes the process of how communities die from dilution. The original fans are outnumbered in their communities, which leads to the conversations in these communities becoming less interesting. Eventually the original fans get fed up with surface-level discussion and leave for greener pastures. Since they were the ones producing the most interesting fan content, quality fan content disappears as they leave and the quality of the community drops even further. The process lasts until eventually pretty much the only fans left in the old fan communities are those who contribute only lowest common denominator content. The communities stabilize at a constant low level of quality. The implication is that while these lesser fans are free to enjoy the same things, them becoming active participants in whatever the original fans did will hurt the original fans' enjoyment.

This is the reason why online communities develop methods for excluding or quarantining newcomers. On imageboards where there are no persistent identities (except for those of tripfags) these methods take the form of shibboleths. The standard reaction to a failed a shibboleth is meant is to force the newcomer to either adapt and learn or leave. Hence, "reddit spacing", "whom are you quoting?", "based on what?", etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20455089
>"reddit spacing", "whom are you quoting?", "based on what?"
Those are all literally just shitposting. Wayq was originally just about being against (what was then mostly) /v/'s dumb greentext stories but shitposters ran with it because it was an easy way to annoy people, similar with "surprise boxes". If you check, it only appeared in the shitposting era of /jp/ too. "Reddit" anything is just /v/'s way to attack something they don't like. The last thing is more like an anti-shitpost shitpost but saying "based" became an ironic statement so that one died.
"Get out of /jp/" is more along what you were saying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20455458
WAYQ discourages paraphrasing greentext to this day. All three have mutated and are used to shitpost, but my point is that they started out as responses to the violation of some specific unwritten rule. (In the case of "reddit spacing", a dubious one probably invented by users who themselves spent too much time on Reddit.)
>Get out of /jp/
Although that is a canned reaction meant to point out an out-of-place post, it is a general one. It is not a response to a poster not knowing a specific shibboleth like the others.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20450827
I think /m/ and /jp/ are similar in spirit, but /m/ can resists better the normalfags-mops etc. What I feel is being lost in the forum is /a/ the anime-core, it's incredible how toxic ironic weeb culture is, they not leave room for the "retro-anime" (everything that is not this season) and Manga; literally there is no place in 4channel to talk about manga, good or bad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20454849
>My dad was a big fan of Tranzor Z and Battle for the Planets, dubs of Mazinger Z and Gatchaman.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that your father is at least in his mid 50's right lol. Other than those, Pygmalio manga, Candy Candy, Doraemon, Adventures of Hatch the Honeybee, Astro Boy, Gegege no Kitarou, and various obscure shoujo manga are big too at the time

>However, over time, the two cultures grew farther and farther apart, with the each preferring their own homegrown media.
Not really, some of modern titles have mass appeal even for older people. I can attest this with my mother because she's one of the main reasons I become a full blown weeb (she's in her early 50's now). She can still enjoy modern for-girl titles like Kamisama Hajimemashita, La Corda, Vampire Knight, Kaichou wa Maid Sama, Diabolik Lovers, Itazura no Kiss etc

>What anime are important to anime fandom, versus anime that are important to otaku culture?
Anime fandom IS not a separate thing with otaku culture. Anime fandom is just one interest between so many mixed interests that makes otaku culture in general

Anyway, the important anime in SEA in my opinion are (based on the eras) :
- Astro Boy, Adventures of Honeybee Hutch, Gegege no Kitarou, various Gundam series, Candy Candy (in the 70's - 90's)
- Slam Dunk, GTO, Ironfist Chinmi, Samurai X, Captain Tsubasa (early 90's)
- Let's & Go, Medabots, Beyblade, Clannad, Digi Charat, Ragnarok the Animation, hack GU, Dragon Ball, Captain Tsubasa, Samurai X, Card Captor Sakura, Sailor Moon, Eva (90's-early 00's)
- Haruhi, Lucky Star, K-ON, Clannad, Love Hina, Midori's Days, Dragon Ball, One Piece, Bleach, Naruto, Madoka Magica (early 00's up until SAO era)

Doraemon is the exception from those above in SEA because it's fucking legendary and in SEA it airs since at least the 80's up to today

>To what extent are cosplayers a part of otaku culture, versus being their own thing separate from the rest of the meta-community
Cosplay and weeb performances are a big and important part of otaku culture which (unfortunately) tend to be used as a gateway for MOPs and Sociopaths cause it's one of the easiest to get into from normalfag viewpoint, the ones which easily attract the most attention from betas/orbiter/normalfags, and can still be considered "cool" by other normalfags and not just nerd things stereotypical normalfags think geeks/losers do

>>20454558
>The death of cool-unless... section
This is the best thing with Comiket/similar type cons. Despite my annoyance with generic anime/geek cons, Comiket and its derivatives/similar type events generally attracts better kind of people in my opinion

[Anonymous No.]

>>20455665
>there is no place in 4channel to talk about manga, good or bad.
This is so true. Also don't forget that you can skim through at least 70% of /a/ catalog if you use even a little bit of your brain because the ones who actually have discussions are rare and will always "feel" different if anyone understand what I mean

[Anonymous No.]

>>20455735
anytime I go to /a/, I just go to the archive instead and search up what I want to find.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20456083
I thought it was unusual that I did it. Give it 20 more years and you will just be able to retrieve all common responses to your OP from an archive. The only remaining reason to post will be if it's about something new or in hope an unusually creative person notices your thread and says something original and insightful.

[Anonymous No.]

where can I read or watch more about the 2000s otaku culture/scene (especially the early 2000s)? any cool specific videos of akiba around that time you can share? hard to search for specific stuff like that, would be cool if there was just walking/city videos from that time

[Anonymous No.]

What I remember from early 2000's otaku culture was the rise of overall pessimism for anime/manga in general. People started to say, "anime is shit etc. etc."

To play devil's advocate though, this was a time when the "crap" of the time were VN adaptations, not LN Isekais.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20460021
Does the shift from VNs to LNs say something about otaku culture? Has it become more shallow?

Two major differences between LNs and VNs are in pacing and the main character's vulnerability. VNs are usually paced much slower. As a result the narrative is more detail oriented. LNs paint everything in broader strokes. A VN protagonist feels more vulnerable because you know he is one wrong choice away from death or failure. When you choose correctly and he succeeds it has more weight because you've seen him fail.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20447301
>you might be able to feel that something is just... different.
Akihabara 2003 was a shopping district centered around electronics and otaku merchandise
Akihabara 2018 is a theme park/tourist district based on its predecessor of 2003

[Anonymous No.]

>>20461248
they also killed off Tsukiji market. Hate how they just build build build new shit on top of already great stuff, I suspect its yakuza and their construction frauds.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20459858
Akihabara Geeks - Full Documentary (2005)

[Anonymous No.]

>>20450827
>I'm essentially just talking about the type of people who use(d) tumblr and write things like (etc.)
And these are distinct from the older twitter types who cherry pick select pieces of otaku culture to add to their personal brands, so that potential brands/clients know that they're interacting with a real human and not a convincing android.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20461248

And what is the true successor of 2003 Akiba if not Akiba in 2018

[Anonymous No.]

>>20461422
There is nothing like it.
Akiba back then was the epitome of humanity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20461331
>Tsukiji
I think the merchants were asking for new facilities because the fish market had outgrown existing (and aging) infrastructure. Could be wrong.
>Hate how they just build build build new shit on top of already great stuff,
It's one of the most densely-populated cities in the developed world; there's not much you can do but build higher.
>yakuza
Doubt it. In general, the government has pushed construction as a form of stimulus since the early 1990s, and many government members own or are connected to construction companies. For Akiba in particular, the market has been hemorrhaging revenue since the early 2000s, and so studios need to find streams outside of blu-ray sales to keep themselves above water. Overpriced merchandise like what they sell to tourists in Akiba has been one of those revenue sources.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20461422
For anime and manga otaku: Regional and genre-specific conventions for physical spheres, T*itter, Pawoo and Patreon for the digital sphere.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20461220
The only thing it says is that VNs are dead.
Joking aside, there's still plenty of adaptations from VNs, it's just that a lot of the time VNs are ero, so it's better to make an ero anime than a normal anime and remove the ero.
I'm not sure that many LNs even get adapted besides isekai which was always popular and romcoms which were also always popular. I do think it's Haruhi's fault that people started looking to LNs for anime more though. It's better than the 4koma&girls-go-to-school rut anime was falling into around then anyway.

>>20460021
>the rise of overall pessimism for anime/manga in general.
From the otaku or in general? Western animation fags seemed angry that anime was getting popular while western animation declined. For otaku, it seems more like a golden era. Most of the stuff people liked, east and west, throughout the 00s and 10s were from like 2000-2004

[Anonymous No.]

>>20455089
What communities have actually died from dilution though? It seems that the idea being presented is that when a bunch of new kids come in, the older fans get pushed out, but I've never seen that be the case. The only time I've sen high level fan interaction die is when people stop engaging in it entirely. The normal way things go is that when a bunch of new fans come in, most stay on the surface, but a few choose to go deeper. Even if you only pay attention to surface level community spaces, you'll still find the older and more invested fans there, meeting up with others like them and trying to turn new fans to the "dark side". Now, if you think that fan community spaces should belong entirely to those type of fans, that's a perfectly fine opinion to have. There are definitely some communities that are small and everyone there is just really invested in the topic. But to say that those communities are in peak form, while other broader communities are dead and corrupted seems kind of ludicrous to me.

>>20455665
Sadly, it's not really surprising to me that discussion and engagement with older anime feels like such a tiny niche these days. Besides the fact there's a shit ton of anime that comes out every season, and people want to be watching all the latest stuff, there's also the fact that the internet in general just moves so fast. It seems like new fads and maymays live in die with the lifespan of days. Add to that the fact that none of the community figureheads (streaming sites, anitubers, etc.) promote older shows in any way, so a lot of new fans don't even know that there's good older stuff out there. Most of the oldschool anime talk is tends to be wherever mecha anime is, since the majority of the shows in that genre come from the 80's and 90's. However, I feel like manga is much less of a niche, even if there's nowhere to discuss it on this site. In fact, because of the recent change to SJ's sub model, there might be a big upswing in manga readership.

>>20455701
>Anime fandom IS not a separate thing with otaku culture. Anime fandom is just one interest between so many mixed interests that makes otaku culture in general
This is something that I don't think I entirely agree with, specifically not when it comes to anime fandom in the US. I can't really speak for anime fandom in the SEA countries, since my interaction with them doesn't really go farther than seeing Tagalog comments on Kamen Rider posts. In the US, there's a really distinct difference between the way that someone who'd I consider an otaku would act, and someone who's a modern western nerd would act. It's the way they talk, write, act, and express their fan culture. Part of it too is that most anime fans just know anime itself, and maybe the fact that manga exists. So for me, part of what makes someone an otaku is knowing and appreciating all the other stuff that's not just anime.

>Cosplay and weeb performances are a big and important part of otaku culture which (unfortunately) tend to be used as a gateway for MOPs and Sociopaths cause it's one of the easiest to get into from normalfag viewpoint, the ones which easily attract the most attention from betas/orbiter/normalfags, and can still be considered "cool" by other normalfags and not just nerd things stereotypical normalfags think geeks/losers do
Maybe I'm generalizing a bit too hard, but (again, I can only speak for my experience in the US side of things) the vast majority of cosplayers I would say are not a part of otaku culture. Again, the whole modern nerd vs otaku thing. Maybe in Japan and SEA it's different, but cosplayers here are more like a bunch of highschool girls weilding their daddies' credit cards than otaku passionate about their hobby; they're always bickering and bitching about everything and everyone in the community. A lot of the western idol community is like this too (/jp/'s idol threads are, ironically, some of the best places to discuss idols in English). That's why I haven't included /cgl/ when I've discussed the otaku-centric boards. Not all cosplayers are like this though, since I personally know a couple of pretty hardcore otaku who cosplay. Same with idolfriends, there are some real ones mixed in their with all the bratty 30 year old women. But for the most part, that's how it is over here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20459858
This is everything I've found, as well as other videos that have been recommended from previous threads like this: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKjBR1shE8DxF0r2mw-9nJ3q5YXjmrnFo

>>20461220
LNs are VNs without the work. But in all seriousness, it seems like a lot less VNs come out now, and they definitely don't have the high profile anime adaptations they once did. The reality seems to be that VNs fell out of favor with otaku (and probably creators too), and were replaced by LNs. LNs have always had a place in otaku culture though (see stuff like The Slayers and Boogiepop), so it's not like VNs died to a foreign invader or something. They're definitely a lot easier and cheaper to make, and take less time consume. Though, outside of maymay VNs like the bird one, the dad one and the cat girl one, the west pretty much doesn't care about VNs at all, and outside of the small dedicated community, never really cared. I haven't looked into this much, but most otome games are still VNs, aren't they?

>>20461420
I feel like this is referring to something super specific, but I don't know what it is.

>>20461626
I personally think that the biggest pain about Twitter is that almost everyone uses the same account for all of their posts. I don't really care to see anything besides otaku bullshit, so it's a pain having to see all this other garbage. It's stupidly hard to find accounts that are just dedicated to hobbies. That's why I like the boards and forums a lot more.

[Anonymous No.]

Sorry for the delay. I am back after watching episode 2 and 3. Tomorrow I'll get to 4 and 5.

It's hard talking in specific of how it relates to the true Akihabara, but they aren't cutting short on the many references. They included the top of the top of the beloved moe girls of the era, including of course 'To Heart''s fabolous Akari.

The humor, as per the first episode, ranges from incredible to mildly disturbing, and yet this is a fine representation of otakku concepts. The exaggeration makes it ultimately enjoyable, and gives each character, including the wonderful two to join the cast, a wonderful flavor.

There isn't much to expand about Ajita and Sati for now as well, besides that their presence is hilarious. Had they not be included, or had the conceptions and misconceptions of Indians not been portrayed through the @deep's main cast, it wouldn't be as good as it was.

>>20460021
Visual novels couldn't realistically be adapted into TV anime without breaking the flow of the content. The charm of visual novels is the option to save and load - you have control of when to go forwards and when to go backwards, and the type of path you wish to pursue(up to a certain extent). This was compromised in adaptation because it was essentially impossible to include all possible routes. There were adaptations that chose a singular, "true" path, including other routes as side deviations, and there were also those that tried to jam in as many routes as they could. Naturally, both approaches were flimsy and derogated from the original, intended appeal. The most striking examples I have are the adaptations for 'Chaos;HEAd' and 'Maji de Watashi ni Koi Shinasai': the former tried to include the nitroplus-developed visual novel's delicate plot and experience into mere twelve episodes, and the latter... I don't know what they did, but they turned what would had otherwise been a pretty funny and enjoyable visual novel into an inferior product. I'm sure there are more, these are simply ones which I both completed and watched.

I tend to believe the culprit behind the reduction in general quality of adaptation today is not that light novels are adapted instead of manga and visual novels, but because it became easier for web authors to momentarily turn professional.
Websites like "Shousetsuka ni narou" have allowed people to post web novels for a long while, but the adaptation from web novel status to light novel was still subjected to much suspicion. As far as I know, the original web draft for 'Sword Art Online' from 2002 was rejected because of its quality, and the author only managed to put it back on later in 2009, after winning a national light novel competition with 'Accel World'. Such success stories gave rise to more isekai writing, which very quickly became stale with cut & paste concepts and ideas - but so long these light novels continue to sell, publishers will keep up with adaptations.

It's a good question, the market share of visual novels out of the entirety of otaku consumption. My guess? A tiny fraction of what it was ten years ago, and even less of what it was twenty years ago. Then again you get countless of them on Steam, and I am puzzled as to who actually consumes them. I have my doubts they are able to properly portray even a glimpse of the height of late-90's and early-2000's visual novels. Truly the end of the age.

>>20461220
The average bishoujo game of the late-90's and early-2000's pondered to specific individuals who made up the core of the Japanese otaku community. They gave the birth to the image of the person with walls covered up with posters and tapestries, receiving allowance from parents and giving up food to spend more on otaku merchandise. They were very loyal, and the repercussions of their trends echo today in the west as well. It didn't matter how slow VNs were, because the fans were fast and thorough.
However, I don't really think I can tell what makes up the core of the otaku community of today. These sort of people haven't stopped existing, but they're definitely past their golden age.

>>20462156
Costume making and cosplaying are in their essence otaku activities, in that they require dedication and work that is rarely seen among other consumers of otaku products. I think however there is a process of distancing in Western otaku communities, in that cosplayers are focusing more on cosplaying and less on other deep fields within otaku. Perhaps cosplay has grown so much that some cannot escape its pull.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20462227
>I personally think that the biggest pain about Twitter is that almost everyone uses the same account for all of their posts
True. Modern social media encourage building accounts around identities instead of topics. In this they are inferior to blogs. You rarely see accounts with what they now call "a strong brand": dedication to a certain topic and style. Identity-based accounts might help you expand your horizons, but it is mostly an unfortunate development.

I dream of a time when every piece of digital media has Danbooru-level tagging, even tweets. It will probably take AI to get there, because at least 98% of people simply won't tag correctly and consistently on their own and will try to sabotage the system to promote something. If this tagging somehow becomes reality, though, you'll be able to filter everything. You can even follow tags or combinations of tags instead of accounts. In a way, it will bring social media closer to anonymity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20461422
Nakano Broadway. Check it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBtORTeT1co

[Anonymous No.]

>>20461248
This is just a meme by people who've never been there desu. Akiba is still a shopping district with mostly otaku stuff and some electronics. There's some theme parkey stuff like the maid cafés but for the most part it's tons of buildings with 5-10 floors of stores.

>>20462835
Nakano Broadway is literally just 30 mandarakes on top of a mall. It's good if you really like mandarake and you can find some rarer cool stuff there, but it's overall less fun than akiba IMHO, since akiba is bustling at all times and has more stuff going on visually. Some stuff is cheaper in Nakano Broadway but not everything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20463480
Someone asked for an atmosphere that was prior to all the glitzy new otaku image Akiba has these days so Nakano fit the bill.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20463506
Well that might be true I guess, I don't know how akiba was more than a decade ago.

Just wanted to rant against all those people trying to seem smart by making Nakano seem like this hidden True Original Otaku(tm) place when it's just a big complex consisting of mostly specialized mandarakes. Don't get me wrong, I love Nakano too, but Akiba is also amazing and I don't like hipsters and people who've never been there bashing it for no reason.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20463549
Same here. I enjoy both Akiba and Nakano, but I feel like the former attracts a lot of the cringey gaijins more because of its "otaku mecca" status. Nakano's foreigners are a lot chiller and are mainly there to shop, not to act like dumbass tourists.

Akihabara had more of a flea market feeling going on with open air vendors showing their wares openly amidst tight alleys. There's still a segment of the district that's still like that. I believe it's a few distances away from the Sofmap main building.

I do acknowledge that Akiba has more to do other than shopping like arcades, karaoke and maid cafes. Outside the Nakano Broadway Shopping Arcade, the place is sparse.

It really boils down to what you're end goal is. If it's shopping for rarities, I'd say Nakano. For general otaku stuff, Akihabara will be the place to go.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20463630
Might depend on the time of year, I'm here right now and honestly there's barely any foreigners here. Saw a few Muslim girls coming down from the upper floors of mandarake, that was funny.

To me akiba feels much more alive. Nakano is mostly a place to buy second hand goods and not much else, so all the appeal is whatever gems you might discover there. Akiba has a great atmosphere. (also, there's still a lot of cool stuff to be found in akiba as well)

[Anonymous No.]

My biggest gripe with Akiba (apart from the many tourists obviously), are the shops, selling dragonball z and one piece figures to dumb gaijin.
Annoys the shit out of me.
So much wasted fucking space.

Apart from that I don't know what to think about Akiba nowadays.
I don't have any money to spend, so the place doesn't seem as interesting as it did in the past.
In the past I didn't have money either, but believed that there was something to do there except spend money.

[Anonymous No.]

Why do people describe Akihabara as this former place that sold electronics and by extension had otaku friendly stuff like games and anime, but when they complain that it's become too mainstream and touristy, they talk about places that have otaku vibes instead of electronics districts? From an ignorant POV, it seems more like they want an unknown otaku-centric place than what they describe Akiba as having been. The electronics part is usually emphasized like otaku weren't the main point so it seems a bit... hypocritical maybe? Maybe not the right word, but like their nostalgia is for something the place was never meant to be to begin with.

[Anonymous No.]

I don't take the time to look at the Akihabara that existed in the past because as someone who fits in much better in the Akihabara of now (corporate, touristic, and overflowing with moe), it would only give me both a false sense of nostalgia or a sense of depression that I contributed in my own small way to the transformation of Akihabara by being one of the gaijins in the figure stores that everyone hates. Also, probably some sort of well-deserved otaku inferiority complex.

I'm glad that other people take the time to venerate and respect the history of the place as it once was, but it's not for me.

[Anonymous No.]

Itasha at Akihabara UDX Parking and Anisong DJ remixes club scene at Mogra Akihabara and the likes are pretty original recent subcultures that spring from Akihabara though so I honestly think that people can still find non corporatized scenes there. Also in my country those two scenes don't seem to be filled with MOPs and Sociopaths (yet)

Not really into the electronic anisong DJ music and the club scenes but the Itasha ones are cool as fuck especially if the owner don't make the cars look too tacky

https://youtu.be/N3nmuP2j6wY

[Anonymous No.]

>>20465235
I wonder if itasha would ever be mainstream. Like people started advertising or getting paid to advertise products all over their cars and others painted it up to show off their likes and associations

[Anonymous No.]

It was alright. I hate the circlejerk of le epic otaku subculture, aa though if you don't spend every waking moment in the community then you aren't really otaku. Same problem arcadefags have

[Anonymous No.]

>>20470535
Well you aren't a nerd if you aren't a nerd. You can like anime and scifi and games without being a nerd.

[Anonymous No.]

This thread was a damn good read.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20475436
Too bad shitposters are threatening to bump it off with their dumb threads

[Anonymous No.]

Was cosplay a huge thing back in the day? From what I can tell, people were more secretive about their hobbies. When I look at Comiket now, I see hundreds of ridiculous lewd female cosplayers and dumb wacky male cosplayers fishing for attention. Was it always like that or am I just a salty bitter virgin?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20475470
Well, that's just something I've come to accept as someone who mostly lurks. I can do nothing but watch as the world around me burns.

>>20475618
I remember watching some video or reading some magazine article back in the early 2000s that on days like Halloween, people went out and about and cosplayed on the streets. Can't remember if it mentioned a particular city. I just remember the outfits were more goth than actual cosplay though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20475618
Unfortunately, cosplayers as a community didn't really make any effort at all to document their history, and most of that documentation is buried under layers and layers of pop news trash, so take all of this with a grain of salt. As far as we can tell, yeah, cosplay has always been a pretty big thing, but its relevance was pretty firmly attached to fan meet ups. In early Comiket videos and photos, you'll see people in cosplay running all over the place, a lot of them as Lum from Urusei Yatsura, who's design is pretty "lewd", I'd say. I'd have to assume that once the internet became a thing (and especially once social media took off in a serious way), cosplay became the "kiddie pool section" for normalfriends in otaku culture. The main catalyst for this (again, making assumptions here) was probably Jessica Nigri. When her sexy Pikachu cosplay took off online and she became one of the first "big name" professional cosplayers, she inspired conventionally attractive female fans the world over. Most will say that they do it for the passion of their craft and fandom, but the amount of Amazon wishlists and Patreons I've seen among them really forces me to question that. Something about the hyper-commercialization of the hobby for horny men who want/need a surrogate girlfriend (in the same way as idols, really) seems kind of disingenuous to the idea of fandom, and otaku culture specifically. Not to say that all female cosplayers are like this though. The amount of cosplayers who are just fans dressing up first still massively outweighs the commercialized sexy cosplayers, but when we're talking about the cosplay community, those types tend not to be involved with it.

So to answer your question, no it hasn't always been like this. The cosplaying because you're hot and you know you can profit off of it thing is a relatively recent development, as far as I can tell.

>>20469097
I can't see itasha as ever being anywhere close to mainstream. It seems like it's one of those otaku hobbies that asks so much of you to even be a base level fan (as opposed to how easy it is to be a base level fan of anime or manga). Also, most people find even just having to many bumper stickers to be gaudy and painful to look at, let alone covering your entire car with otaku bullshit. Itasha have been around for a really long time too, and it never really picked up. So all of those factors combined make me pretty sure that itasha will stay the niche it is.

>>20464707
>From an ignorant POV, it seems more like they want an unknown otaku-centric place than what they describe Akiba as having been.
This is basically the ground zero of every "Akiba has changed..." monolouge you'll ever see or hear. In almost all the media on it, Akihabara is portrayed as this secret otaku sanctuary known only to the hardcore fans. In stuff like the documentary that's been posted a few times, as well as in the Genshiken series, it's shown that Akiba hosted all kinds of people, and that otaku had their own space in the city. In shows like Densha Otoko and Akihabara@DEEP, it's shown that these otaku spaces were "pure" from the influence of the outside world, and were a sanctuary for otaku. The monologue in @DEEP's opening is this idea concentrated into a minute and a half. A lot of people in the west who consider themselves to be "hardcore otaku" take all this to heart as gospel, so when they see all these "gaijin attractions" like the aforementioned Dragon Ball figures in shop windows, they feel like the space has been compromised. What usually is the case is that they either haven't been to Akiba before, and are basing everything off of what they've seen online, or if they have been, then they typically haven't really explored the city in full depth. If they had, then they'd realize that otaku culture in its "pure form" still very much lives in Akiba.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20470535
>if you don't spend every waking moment in the community
What people usually complain about isn't how much time people spent in the community, it's the quality of the community and the mindset/motivations around it which are the main problems

>>20469097
>advertising or getting paid to advertise products all over their cars
>others painted it up to show off their likes and associations
These already happen though, just not on average citizen cars and probably not to big extent like Japan or China cause weeb stuffs don't have big enough market shares in other countries to make it justifiable

>>20475618
Yes it's huge, just that the amount of people who do it solely out of attention whoring like the ridiculously lewd or dumb wacky ones you mentioned above are very small. Attention whoring does play the part but it's still combined with genuine interest (regardless of whether the cosplayer is beginner or seasoned veteran), autistic obsession for whatever they like, and various spectrum of weirdos/autists

I dunno about pre 2000's ones but early 2000's in SEA are filled with Tidus/Cloud/Yuna/Tifa/Auron/Lulu (Final Fantasy), Ky/Jam/Bridget (Guilty Gear), Chun Li/Ryu (Street Fighter), various Dynasty Warriors, various Suikoden, various Ragnarok jobs, various angels (I can only remember one which is Chise from Saikano)/demons/deity/king/fantasy wizard-ish characters with elaborate outfits which I don't know what fucking series they come from

[Anonymous No.]

>>20475816
>>20475936
>>20476052
Thanks for the indepth responses. Cosplaying was one of those parts of otaku culture that I always had a bias towards because it struck me as casual and overly fishing for attention, but I suppose it always had it roots. I've never really seen cosplay from before the 2010s, I wish 80s-90s were more well documented, I would've loved to learn more about their mindset compared to today.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20477704
Minus the ones who do it solely for attention whoring, I'd like to imagine that the mindset is still similar, people just want to dress up as their favorite characters.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20477704
>I wish 80s-90s were more well documented
I do too. Back before I was a snob, I used to like looking at fan art of games that would sometimes be published in some video game magazines. Nowadays I can go search some art site for that, but who knows what nice things I may have missed since I didn't read a particular issue of a magazine or because it was hosted on some site that is now defunct. Although the magazines themselves are probably decently archived somewhere, since I remember seeing collections of them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20481248
Maybe you're thinking of retromags. They got a big torrent collection of old gaming magazines.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20435866
I loved that show and wish there was a seeded torrent so I could watch it again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20477704
>casual and overly fishing for attention
You aren't wrong, like>>20475936 said, genuine cosplay scenes are still exist and alive, just that commercialized sexy cosplayers/attention whores/hot girls profiting off their good looks are relatively recent phenomenon and they're fuckhuge now so you just gotta filter them out yourself

>I wish 80s-90s were more well documented, I would've loved to learn more about their mindset compared to today
Genshiken First Generation Manga (9 volumes with Saki, Madarame, and Sasahara on the spotlights, not the second season/Nidaime ones) captures those stuff (community, relationships, mindsets, certain stereotypes of people you will always find in the community, etc) very well and it's great in A LOT of aspects even if the theme is changed from "90s otaku hobbies" to another hobby. It resonates with a lot of people (especially older 20s and up audiences) because the character interactions and dynamics portray realistic and fun (albeit probably a little bit too idealistic) college life, and it shows how fun and worth good community and good relationships are. Honestly even without the otaku hobbies theme, anyone who've ever been involved in any hobby-based communities with actually good communities will probably understand the appeal of Genshiken. At the very least older audiences surely understand that a cute girl with strong personalities like Saki are fucking great lol, not even in the same class as shallow girls/waifubait/thots you will find both in 3D or 2D

[Anonymous No.]

I return with episode 4 in hand.
The production quality is becoming more and more apparent, especially in comparison to Densha Otoko. Simply put, it's a difficult watch(not that I don't enjoy it). I love how each of the members fit into a distinguishable role, further emphasized by their exterior appearance.

I love how Ajita and Sati jest about Densha Otoko, then crack up with the black bodyguards later. Akada of the Shuuyuu party is also incredible - so enthusiastic, sickeningly so.
Ajita and Sati are quick to catch on trends, perhaps even quicker than the otaku themselves. Is this survival?

On the topic of the band of episode four: I can only assume "Jigyaku Shoujo Tai" is a parody of "Kinniku Shoujo Tai". The latter, abbreviated "KING-SHOW", is at least according to the denpa.omaera website linked to the development of the denpa subculture. While I cannot reliably say anything about that, I can definitely tell they were a prominent band with dark themes active in the days when otaku was at its shallowest point, and that their creations had an influence on the anime-manga industry. They are exemplary in their eerie lyrics. For me this world of akiba-rock is completely unexplored. I wonder if there is any recorded history of this scene.

The cloaked fans chant "itteyoshi" - a 2ch based slang literally meaning "it would be good if you died", though normally used to mean "go away". I originally learned about it from the IOSYS famous MV of "Itteyoshi 2005", loosely based on the earlier "Itteyoshi 2003".

All in all, an episode as wacky as it should be.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20481489
Boob girl's boobs were the only thing about any of the girls that left an impression on me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20483279
Spotted the underage, only mature reader can understand the appeal of Saki son

[Anonymous No.]

>>20484713
"I like this guy because he's hot and I can overlook that I fucking hate his hobbies and friends because I only care that he is hot"
so deep.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20484713
I recently rewatched the first few episodes of Genshiken, and to be honest, maybe I really am still too immature, because I constantly found Saki to be the most unbearable part of the show. This is probably bad to say, but I unironically agree with Madarame's sentiment about how you shouldn't mix hardcore hobbyists with normal people. Her constant moaning about how much time they (specifically Kosaka) spend on their hobbies, her constant questioning of everything they were doing, and her goals to "un-otaku" Kosaka all just reminded me of the worst traits of normalfriends I knew in highschool rolled into one character. To me, she's just an unlikable asshole, but then again, it's not logical to expect everyone to hugbox your hobbies in the same way that your fellow hobbyists would. Some people define themselves by how into their hobbies they are. This (seems to be) pretty normal, but if you run to hard with it for to long, it can be hard to accept people from outside your circles of interest. It can even be hard to accept people who are just on the outskirts of/in the outer rings of your circles of interest. This, I feel, is the core behind the idea of "elitism", though I feel this is something of a surface level analysis. At least, this is how I feel about Saki and characters like her.

>>20477704
>I wish 80s-90s were more well documented, I would've loved to learn more about their mindset compared to today.
I feel like this time period was actually pretty well documented, but because we can't just punch "otaku magazine 2008" into Google, it requires a lot more sleuthing to find. Stuff like fan magazines and newsletters are what you need to look for, and figuring out where those documents are without a name or publisher is a huge pain in the ass. Old issues of Newtype and Animage would be a good start, but seeing as raw old issues (not filtered through "curators") are hard to come by, plus the fact that they are more news magazines than fan magazines makes them a shaky first step. But I do sincerely believe that the stuff is out there, and if I can find enough of it, I'd love to start an online archive for them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20485088
I don't know how I fucked that up, but I meant "otaku magazine 1988".

[Anonymous No.]

>>20485066
Great job proving that guy's point. Imagine being too stupid to understand genshiken

[Anonymous No.]

>>20486667
Call me stupid, but is the point of Saki not to be the absolute foil to Madarame, who is portrayed as the otaku above all others? Is the point of Genshiken not to document and celebrate the Otaku culture of the late 90s/early 2000s? The only other theme that I can see it covering is the ones of comradarie and growing up, but that's par for the course of a story set in school, right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20487604
>>20485088
>Is the point of Genshiken not to document and celebrate the Otaku culture of the late 90s/early 2000s?
Yes
>The only other theme that I can see it covering is the ones of comradarie and growing up, but that's par for the course of a story set in school, right?
Also true
>is the point of Saki not to be the absolute foil to Madarame, who is portrayed as the otaku above all others?
>because I constantly found Saki to be the most unbearable part of the show
No, Saki is strong enough to stand out on her own as a character. I'm willing to bet that without Saki, Genshiken won't be rated too highly by so many people and will just become a story about average socially incompetent nerds without unique, fun, and most importantly (what so many manga can't pull off) REALISTIC social dynamics and friendships. Madarame and the others stand out as a character too but Saki almost singlehandedly affects the whole members growth and social dynamics it's amazing. Saki is the good kind of normalfag

I'm not that old (only in mid 20s) but when you're a little bit older you won't particularly care about waifubait such as those in Rezero, Eromanga Sensei etc. But older audiences will really appreciate and get wet to a realistic socially competent cute character like Saki who isn't a fucking passive aggressive backstabber, saying almost everything and showing her feelings directly, considerate and caring (pretending to don't know about Madarame's crush while still being his close friend require very big tolerances in her part, just to mention one of the example), mentally strong, and a best bro while still very feminine, especially considering that Genshiken is very realistic in its tone. She's very kind at heart while still being realistic. Genshiken is very idealistic in the sense of portraying realistic friendships and people, hell you can read the 54th chapter and feel warm inside despite not having any fucking texts throughout the entire chapter. Why do you think that none of the Genshiken members don't seriously hate her despite their constant annoyances? Why did Ohno is a very close friend of Saki and vice versa, despite not having same common grounds in cosplay and otaku stuffs? Why did Madarame has a huge crush on her despite also not having same common grounds in otaku stuffs? Saki is the embodiment of idealistic and realistic normalfag best bro, a great girl with real personalities you will rarely find both in 2D and 3D and pull off the show's quality and dynamics a lot

tl;dr, First Genshiken is a must read manga about 90s ish otaku culture and great friendships. Akihabara and Comiket are also shown a lot there for anyone wondering how does 90s otaku culture looks like

[Anonymous No.]

>>20488953
Like this page where it seems like just average nerdy girls otaku talk, but if you actually read the whole manga, it's actually filled with a lot of subtleties that I won't mention. Sorry I just can't keep my autism down everytime I talk about Saki

[Anonymous No.]

>>20488953
The gist of Genshiken is that there is interaction between the worlds of normal and otaku. For this Saki is included. It would had ended short if there were solely male or otherwise solely otaku members in the club. All of this is bound together by something almost unique to this manga: a sense of time. That the members spend their last years job hunting, move on to graduate then disappear from the scene for the most part portrays a realistic expectation of the changes in hobby clubs like these. It also allowed for an easier time blending into the second Genshiken. As far as character interaction goes, Genshiken is exemplary.

However, I wonder how much can be said about its depiction of otaku culture. There are many things that they show about it that may not be automatically realized: that many university clubs form circles of their own(ZUN of Touhou originally appeared as "Tokyo Denki University Department of Science and Engineering" in C52 of 1996), that entry as a vendor in Comiket is a lottery, and above all, that otaku consumerism doesn't center anime. It's also peculiar that the use of computers in first Genshiken is only becoming relevant with time, which goes according to how the PC market in Japan was: the PC-98 and its derivatives conquered Japan in the early-mid 90's, but it didn't mean that many people used computers, only that of the ones who did use them, it was most prevalent. The fact that it was mostly a DOS-based system deterred many people, including otaku, from purchasing it. Only with the advent of the IBM Windows computers of the late 90's did computer use become common - enough to revitalize the doujin software scene, and later give the resurrected Touhou franchise a boost. This is important because it influences the manner in which people consumed the very popular bishoujo games of the mid-late 90's and early 2000's. It's noteworthy that Genshiken didn't push in the Internet, BBS or not, where it didn't belong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20488953
When you get even older, you get over that "mature anime for mature people such as myself" phase.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449114
from Comiket documentary

[Anonymous No.]

>>20490519
That's not really what they are saying. Not that I entirely agree with it though. Most people when they get older just have been around the block enough times to not get excited about Isekai Series #2897. However people can still fall hard for characters at first sight. Its either their own curiosity surrounding the hype over a series or the character designs that draw people when they get older when it comes to these "dime a dozen"-type series. Though its not like they aren't self aware about the situation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20490519
It's just that in weeb media, characters that have real personalities are rare, rarer when they act according to their age, and even more rarer that the characters depicted are young adults or even older adults so I just can't contain my autism man

>>20490371
I agree, much of Genshiken's late 90s-early 2000s otaku cultures depictions often aren't shown at face values, but honestly it's still pretty accurate

For example, college students usually graduate around 23 years old (aside from the ones who work first before going to college/a lot of gap years/special circumstances). The first Genshiken generation graduated at 2006 and they were 23 years old at that time. So in 2018, Genshiken depict the now 35 years old ish otaku genertion when they were young.

I said this makes perfect sense. Why? In my own experiences (dunno for others), older (30 years old and up) otaku I know usually are the ones who know and actually play VN in depth, while many stopped because of various circumstances (life/not having enough time/whatever), back in their days they clearly play VN a lot (especially for the hardcore ones), and compared to their below generation like me (early 20s up to late 20s) the average amount of interest to VN was probably bigger

For example in my case (now 25 years old), my first exposure to VN is watching my normalfag uncle (now 38 years old) borrow Sentimental Graffiti from my local game store. I didn't know whether it was intentional or not cause my uncle is fully normalfag but if that kind of game exists in the store, surely there must be a market for that game. This was in early 2000s when original Ragnarok is BIG everywhere and WoE/Lutie is still relatively new. Fast forward to when I become a teenager and older generation expose the younger generation about Never7/Ever17 and Kanon/Air (which to this day I still don't understand the appeal of those and the appeal of VN in general lol)

Genshiken honestly makes perfect sense in their depiction of timeline and otaku culture. Anyway, this is a very good thread

[Anonymous No.]

bump

[Anonymous No.]

I can't find the @DEEP movie anywhere with English subs. I think I'll order the DVD, try to sub it, and then we should have a movie night. At least, I'll try to sub it, since I've never done anything like it before. Even if nobody is interested in watching it with me, I want to see what the differences are between the film and the drama. Just based on images alone, I think I prefer that drama's costume design, but that's not the say that film's looks bad. I've been rewatching the drama along side >>20482142's commentary, it's a really interesting time. I still need to read the novel and manga too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20498366
I found it with french subs on YouTube. I could try to translate it. It would be on a shitty raw txt though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449066
THIS
My first con was five years ago and it still had some lame stuff like underage drinking at the lines outside, but was actually really comfy. It was held at a school and they really went all out with the decoration and it felt like a school festival.
The last one I attended had way more budget and attractions but it felt so empty. Gone was the atmosphere. I'm pretty timid but I always made small chat with fellow enthusiasts here and there, but it was impossible with so many normies. And to make things worse, they made fun of the /true/ otaku pretty often and acted like jocks from teen movies. Before, it was entitled otaku x plebs, now is chads x scattered otaku.
Attention seeking whores are hit or miss for me - sex sells, and unfortunately sometimes I'm inclined to buy that shit.
I long for Comiket but will probably die without making to the promised land.

(Sorry for the rant. This is one of the best threads I've seen in a good while!)

[Anonymous No.]

>>20498366
It's been released with English subs in the past, I guess if needed I could throw it up somewhere, the release I have is named: Akihabara.Deep.DVDRip.XViD-DiDaKe

[Anonymous No.]

>>20490733
saved

[Anonymous No.]

>>20502574
why?

[Anonymous No.]

Bumping, but I'll be back in a bit with an actual post.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20505414
For posting on brohus threads

[Anonymous No.]

>>20508700
when?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20512150
Sorry, fell asleep.

What I wanted to talk about a bit was >>20490733's image. Like they said, it's from the Comiket 2015 documentary by NHK, so it's the most recent production we've discussed so far (@DEEP, Densha Otoko, and the Akiba doc are all from the early 2000s). The main story features a few different vendors before and during the event, but it includes quite a lot of excerpts of interviews from other people there. This quote from the section of the doc on cosplay. The whole part is weird compared to the rest of the documentary. There's talk about only being there to be photographed, Comiket being a show, and pleasing their "customers". The difference between how these people (especially the cosplayers there to sell DVDs) talk and act compared to the other vendors and attendees is not particularly huge or crazy, but it's noticeable. This quote right here is definitely the most shallow of all of them. Since I'm not a cosplayer myself, I kind of have to take what they're saying at face value. Compared to how everyone else had been talking about how Comiket is a place for everyone to come together and bond over their hobbies, the cosplayers just seem so alien. There's even a part where one said that she only came to cosplay, which obviously could mean that she could come to buy stuff another day, but still. Now again, I don't want to make it seem like cosplayers are this tumor on the side of otaku culture. There's an interview from this old man cosplaying as Juzo from Space Battleship Yamato, and another from an old man dressed in Germany's WWI attire, and those feel more in line with what everyone else is saying. There's a very interesting quote from teh Juzo cosplayer about otaku culture that I'd love to discuss more at some point, but aside from those two, everything about the cosplay section feels alien to the rest of the event, and it really seems like there's a completely different event happening in the same convention center. This is kind of what I meant when in >>20475936 when I was talking about otaku/anime fans who cosplay vs "cosplayers." When I think about all the interactions I've had with the latter group seem to match up with the doc's ratio of "people who only care about cosplay" vs "people who are otaku and cosplayers". There was even once an interview where a convention vendor complained about cosplayers never buying comics from the booths and just taking up space in their area posing for pictures. The thing about the west is that in addition to that, you also have that layer of "lul irony amirite gaiz" that permeates a lot of surface level otaku culture that doesn't seem to exists in the Japanese circles (I can't speak Nihongo though, so maybe I'm wrong.). It seems like it the most thick with the cosplayer crowd. For someone like me, who participates in otaku culture with 100% sincerity and optimism, that just makes me see them as even bigger egotistical assholes.

On a side note, one of my favorite things in the documentary is a bit about this vendor who wrote a book titled "Anime Needs More Subtitles!", and it's about how most anime in Japan don't have any subs, so deaf fans have a hard time. That strikes me as pretty humorous considering that arguing for subs in the west is considered "weeaboo" and "elitist". Not the same grounds obviously, but still.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20481284
Try TV-Nihon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20463506
>the glitzy new otaku image Akiba has
What do you mean? Last time I checked they were regarded as unfunctional (not)members of the society.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20481284
https://www1.ondramanice.tv/drama/akihabara-deep-detail
Cheers from the Jap tv / film general

[Anonymous No.]

>>20522936
>>20518563
Thanks a lot anons

[Anonymous No.]

>>20514945
Imagine anime DVD/BRs with Japanese subs that media players automatically text hooked and translated and everyone began watching subs based on those instead of fansubbing anymore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20514945
Closed captions aren't a standard thing?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20435866
I'm actually going to check this out now, thanks anon. Sounds fun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20461605
>Tsukiji
I think the merchants were asking for new facilities because the fish market had outgrown existing (and aging) infrastructure. Could be wrong.

They are now complaining about same stuff I thought when looking at building
>but something the old market had was that all the merchants were huddled up close and it encouraged tighter relationships between the merchants. some of the complaints ive been reading from the pros is that the new building is too big and inpersonal, and its designed to separate the diff merchants, so its missing that community feeling

but at least this survived
>All the Tsuji street food vendors are still there

Shame it will be parking spots there instead

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449202
>>20448419
>Electric Light Orchestra's "Twilight

is this the most nostalgic song ever created? I cant even describe it how it feels listening to it

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449202
>"New Otaku vs Old Otaku"
oh is there an archive of it?
btw you can still make a whole board not only thread somewhere else. Iam one of these who hate both discord and twitter

[Anonymous No.]

>>20448419
whats in catalogs

[Anonymous No.]

>>20462227
>This is everything I've found

where is it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20463819
>Saw a few Muslim girls coming down from the upper floors of mandarake, that was funny.

[Anonymous No.]

There are two korean movies about guy meeting girl on train is that adaptation of Densha Otoko or is it just same thing only to happen in different country?

[Anonymous No.]

I appreciate this thread and jp as a board. I feel that generally we are gradually being drowned out by people who have no interest in understanding the cornerstones of the culture. Most people are dismissive of VNs, doujin media or older anime and it seems to be getting harder to rekindle that in a lot of regards. I don't necessarily see issues with there being a larger group interested in anime, however, people in that group who consider themselves fanatics in the same regard as the more dedicated are frustrating, especially when they feel some sort of ownership over the same discussion spaces.

In regards to Akiba, while yes, there are many concessions for foreigners or more surface-level interests, it still doesn't seem to fail at catering to the core otaku for the most part and as long as it can fulfill that role it will still play a significant role in the core culture. If you know where you're going, you can mostly spend the day without seeing gaijin who showed up to cross an attraction off their list.

That said, the way Akiba is today did give me a unique appreciation of Denden Town and it's moderately more niche appeal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20541183
Where does the idea that "most people are dismissive of VNs, doujin media or older anime" come from? VNs, at least in the west, are by far the most popular they've ever been, to the point where they get successful Steam releases. "doujin media" is the same I think, though I'm not completely sure what you mean by that. As for older anime, you have to realize that anime history is quite short, so what you consider "older anime" right now is probably older than anything that existed was in the time period you're taking about.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20526144
The translation software would have to advance quite a bit before something like that would happen, and I think I'd be sad that that part of fan culture would probably be lost forever. Fansubs are already much smaller than "back in the day" now that a lot of shows are getting picked up by licensors for simulcasts and such.

>>20534136
I'd imagine that if someone felt the need to write a book explaining why anime needs subtitles, then probably not. I can't say for sure though, since I don't live in Japan now, and I didn't live in Japan when that book was being written. It could possibly be a problem with late night anime specifically.

>>20539459
It was actually called "Generational gap in Otaku Culture", sorry if that threw of your search. >>/jp/thread/S19168598
I'm not really sure what you mean by "make a whole board", but I'm pretty bad at making OPs, so I generally just wait for someone else to make a new "meta thread about general otaku culture". It's funny, but now that I'm re-reading that thread, I'm pretty sure I recognize a couple of the posters in this thread, so I guess I'm not the only one doing that.

>>20542105
I think that idea comes from personal perceptions. I spend a lot of time in both "normie tier" spaces, and spaces that are about as close as you can get to just being on 2ch, such as here. In those "normie spaces", otaku culture is pretty much seen as a tumor on the side of both anime and Japanese culture in general. You'll see a lot of talk from people about how otaku are stagnating the industry, and stuff like "Japanese people hate otaku" from people who have never set foot in the country. On different sites, pretty much everyone on this thread (and definitely the majority of posters on this board) would be regarded as "weeaboos". A lot of the positive reception to more otaku-centric things like VNs and doujin media is super saturated in irony about how weeby or "lol japan" it is. An example I'll use is that if you look up "doujinshi" on YouTube, pretty much all of the entries you'll get are "WOW I WENT TO JAPAN AND BOUGHT SOOOOOO MUCH PORN LMFAO HOW WACKY". In addition, while there's definitely plenty of fans of every time period, the types of fans who stick to streaming through platforms like Crunchyroll, Funimation, and especially Netflix are extremely difficult about watching anything that's not on their platform of choice, let alone something that looks "old", let alone something otaku centric. I can't tell you how many people I've tried to trick into watching Gunbuster, only for it to fall through for those reasons. But all in all, I think you're right that we're not really getting drowned out by the more surface level fans. Otaku culture is as prominent in the west as its ever been. Even though in the grand scheme of this, not that many people know or care about otaku centric things, there's still a lot more people who do then before. That's obvious enough just by how long this thread has gone on.

>>20540702
What were the movies?

>>20540374
The playlist?

>>20541183
>I appreciate this thread and jp as a board.
It's pretty funny, but when the thread first started, I thought everyone was making fun of me for name dropping Densha Otoko, but it turned out to be a pretty good thread. I think it's better than the last one we had.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20543186
You're not wrong about how normies are but normies existing doesn't really impact the real otaku culture. Otaku are on the periphery of culture by definition.

If you just learn to stop going to those places you'll see that otaku culture is essentially doing as well as it always was.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20543186
>The translation software would have to advance quite a bit
No it wouldn't. People already don't care about text hooking and google translated games nor meme subs nor rewritten localizations.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20444245
At The Secret World of Comiket they showed how all artists must follow some regulations, otherwise preparation committee would not allow them to sell their goods.

What regulations are those? I find it interesting we all know what kind of weird doujinshis we get from each comiket lol

[Anonymous No.]

>>20543587
Probably proper censorship regulations.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20543602
To comply with japanese censorship laws?

[Anonymous No.]

Just want to say that in my very subjective opinion, regardless of their tastes, age, and how long/experienced someone in weeb stuffs, the easiest filter to differentiate weebs who aren't cancer (usually) is how often they read Manga or not (especially outside the big shounen titles) or whether they consider/at least acknowledges that Manga is actually a very big media

I define cancer as the majority of FGOfags, sexy/commercial/attention minded cosplayers that does it solely for at least one of those reasons without having any interest in the character, ironic weeb, and people who unironically enjoy those anime crack videos

There are a lot of things I'm also not into like VN, Idols, Touhou, Vocaloid, Super Sentai, Gundam/Mecha etc but for some unknown reasons they still managed to have the ratio of half good crowd and half bad crowd. Yeah I'm biased as fuck but I'm in the camp that certain media and fandom attract bad crowd more than the others because of the nature of its content

[Anonymous No.]

>>20543186
My sassy girl are the movies


>make a whole board
different place/chan lets you make a board
I guess it would be stupid to make a board just for otaku discussion though

[Anonymous No.]

>>20435866
I watched it years ago so I don't remember all the details but it felt comfy and nostalgic. I liked it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20543186
>types of fans who stick to streaming through platforms like Crunchyroll, Funimation, and especially Netflix are extremely difficult about watching anything that's not on their platform of choice, let alone something that looks "old", let alone something otaku centric

I know what you mean. usually they watch FOTM and complain older anime is "too anime" like what does it even mean for them?

Do you think those sites can change Anime industry? since they control western part and maybe studious would want to make more money and would cater to those fans instead

[Anonymous No.]

>>20539452
Anime became a full-on obsession for me in 2007, when it was my first year in college and first time away from my controlling parents

Anyway, I also flunked out that year due to shutting myself off from the outside world. So it reminds me of surrendering my mind to digital mana while watching the world and future collapse around me. It played in my head during the exams that I stopped studying for. Despite losing ivy league scholarships I was still happy for the first time in my life. I think?

[Anonymous No.]

Right, otaku culture and public perception. I'm reminded of this video of a 2004 anime con posted on some kung-fu indie website pre-youtube. Mainstream culture was interested in anime only for easy punchlines, and this was true for Pokemon back in the day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiPkkK4ZsFk

[Anonymous No.]

>>20544036
on that note just read netflix is paying for new GitS anime

[Anonymous No.]

>>20544036
>complain older anime is "too anime" like what does it even mean for them?
It's probably somewhat related to my own personal feelings that anime today "isn't anime enough". Pre-mid-2000s anime has this completely different feel.
On the other hand there are things I do dislike, like over-reliance on distorted faces and emotional symbols(giant sweatdrops, etc) that I image bothers them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20543498
I care a lot about all of those things, but I'm definitely a minority opinion there.

>>20543674
I remember being 12 and thinking anime crack videos were God's gift to humanity. Loved that shit man. Anyways, when I really think about it, all of the people who I really like and actually enjoy hanging out with who are into otaku media are big manga readers. That could have something to do with the fact that a while back, manga was the only way I could consume otaku media, so maybe I relate more with their taste and tendencies as manga readers. Still, I think its telling that someone else had this thought as well. Part of it might be because a lot of people don't like reading, even beyond reading manga being seen as too nerdy. When you're reading manga (or also playing VNs), you're taking a much more active part in consuming it, versus the much more passive role of consuming in anime. When you look at it that way, you can start to see a line form between what we might consider "non-otaku" and hardcore otaku. Otaku hobbies like gunpla, VNs, manga, and watching unlicensed anime require a much more active role in consumption, while things like watching anime on Netflix and playing mobage are much less involved.

>>20544029
I'll definitely check them out, but I think its best that we have these type of discussions in a place like this. I think it would be weird to divorce meta discussion of otaku culture from a place that's sole purpose is the discussion of otaku culture and media.

>>20543385
Just not going to places with only hardcore otaku is really hard, because those spaces exist in tiny numbers in the west. Unless you're into Love Live or something else with meet ups like gunpla, the only way you can participate in otaku culture here is by going to cons, and we all now that cons are definitely not otaku-only spaces. Even on social media, it's hard to separate out who's "trueotaku", who's just some guy who likes some anime, and who's in it ironically. If there was a /jp/ spin off that was actually all about otaku culture and wasn't just endless "twf no gf"/neet/depression threads, I'd go there in a heartbeat. For now, this is fine I guess.

>>20544036
It may be possible that Netflix and Crunchyroll can change anime as we now it, but somehow I don't think Japanese animation studios will be so easily turned from the hordes of cash the otaku dump on figures, merch, and BDs. If anything, the change will be as painless as when the otaku industry changed from OVAs to late night television.

[Anonymous No.]

I have to wonder just how widespread anime fandom and otaku culture are. If there was a poll of everyone in all of the 1st world societies (and I guess India because they also have high speed internet now), how many of them would be able to follow this conversation at all? How many of them would even know what anime is? I ask this because while it sometimes seems like everyone knows about anime and has an opinion on it, I've run into some people who had no idea what I meant when I used the term "anime", and at least one person who didn't even know what Pokemon was. Online, I see nothing but otaku media non-stop, but in real life, most people I know only now Dragon Ball Z, Naruto, Pokemon, and maybe Sailor Moon. All cases were as recent as 2018, too. I think if such a poll were ever made, we'd have a perfectly accurate picture how mainstream anime is, and how mainstream otaku culture is. What percentage of people who only consume things through their Facebook feed and what's on television know about anime and anime culture? When we're talking about mainstream culture, what's the difference between mainstream culture in the "real world" and mainstream culture just as it pertains to internet culture?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20547461
india has had weebs since time immemorial, helped by the fact they kept recieving niche japanese media through the late millenium.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20435866
giving this a bump because I appreciated this show. And I enjoyed all of this director's other dramas. fun fact: Page is the VA for Yugi in YuGiOh

[Anonymous No.]

Excellent thread, a great start to 2019.

As a small contribution, here's a video of an interview with mangaka Hisashi Eguchi:
https://youtu.be/2a6Wqq4zifw

[Anonymous No.]

>>20550082
And here's a documentary about Virtual Youtubers and their fans:
https://youtu.be/7zZwjRmMWcY

[Anonymous No.]

>>20547408
This is a very stereotyping but good answer from Kaguya thread about reading lol. In short, usually any media/hobby who need active thinking or active participations are more often than not great at repelling bad crowds, much more if the media isn't seen as something "cool"

>>>/a/182775523

>>20547461
SEA is big into animu and manga, probably because we're used to being dirt poor (even now we're still relatively poor compared to other countries, just that things slowly begin to change) and animu/manga isn't as expensive as western cartoon both for media companies and its consumers at the time so that's probably why the amount of animu manga is much bigger than western cartoons here. Bigger genre choices and better art quality (in average) for manga/animu helps too. Also, like the waitress in Akihabara Geeks said, in my opinion japanese media is one of the early modern (1900s and up) visual media to exploit human relationships and audiences-role-playing-as-the-story's-character A LOT compared to other media

Why did people into Suikoden/Final Fantasy/Ragnarok/Chrono Trigger/other JRPGs games etc at the time? Why did people into anime/manga and why (for example) GTO is the self insert manga for 90s generation? I can only speak for the early 20s up to late 30s generation but it's one or a combination of
>it looks good/cute/lewd
>you can role play as the characters both in action and its human relationships (not many will admit this one though)
>the narrative/story is great
>the theme and genre choices are fucking big so there's something for everyone

[Anonymous No.]

>>20547041
>Pre-mid-2000s anime has this completely different feel.

it was less moe theme right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20551390
>it was less moe theme right?
That's not the feel I'm feeling, no. More like it was more cutesy. More cartoony. Less copying of real life with some minor changes or pure mmo style fantasy with a bland real life protagonist. Anime was more dark and gritty at times then too than they're willing to be nowadays, but what I meant I thought people mean when they say something is too anime vs me thinking modern anime is not anime enough is like... a lot of older anime is almost incomprehensibly weird. Weird little critters as mascot characters, characters shrinking into SD mode, girls acting super childish for the sake of being cute, people falling over on their faces as a punchline, girls smacking things with giant hammers they pulled out of thin air and stuff like that. Stuff that was intended to be cute had a like really sparkly, candy-like look. Some older 80/70s stuff had a certain chubbiness to it too. The late 90s seemed to be more about thinness.

It's hard to explain but nowadays characters tend to be more grounded, realistic in terms of personality, abilities, porportions, etc, so when they do weird anime stuff it seems awkward.

I think anime is less moe themed nowadays since it's moving out of the bishoujo games mindset. It's more ero than moe lately.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20551971
I could be wrong here, but maybe it's because a lot of anime nowadays are adapted from LNs, a format where having a girl pull out a giant hammer out of thin air doesn't really work? Perhaps?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20544029
I mean this is the Otaku Culture board. There's a lot 2hu threads above a lot of interesting threads sure, but there's a lot of knowledgable idol wota, denpa fans, etc. here that create discussions like these, so I wouldn't put it past /jp/ to have decent discussions yet.

[Anonymous No.]

This is an amazing thread. Really appreciate all the anons making interesting and insightful posts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20448419
> I wonder if it also caused anime streaming(the most accessible method of watching anime at the time) to become more common. I remember watching Haruhi in 2006-2007
I saw Haruhi during that time too and I would not say streaming was the most common way of watching anime. Internet speeds were not good enough, generally, to stream video. I used to download anime episodes via direct download, one at a time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20552468
Funny you mention that with another City Hunter adaptation on the horizon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20544372
>Quina cosplay
>Fighter from 8-bit Theater
>Xellos
>Etna in what seems early 2000s/pre-PSP re-releases
That looked like a pretty cool group.

>>20547461
People who spend the majority of their online lives on Facebook, I imagine, would not be likely to learn about anime if they weren't already into it. Facebook is an echo chamber that caters to the things you already find interesting and little else (which was a big part of the problem with fake news during the 2016 election cycle, but that's another topic.) You're right, though, it does seem like almost everyone online is at least aware of anime's existence, whether they like anime or not. In more normie-oriented areas, anime is lately associated with "incels" and "neckbeards", and in nerdier parts of the net, it's just another pillar of geekdom, alongside the Marvel movies and Harry Potter. Out in meatspace, though, I think awareness might be less common and more clumped together in specific groups (I work in IT and my coworkers either watch or at least know about anime, but I don't imagine this is as common in, say, the automobile repair industry). Having a poll of all online users would not really give us a good metric for how mainstream anime might really be.

I just wanted to echo the sentiment that this thread is pretty top tier. If this conversation moves off this board, as >>20448419 suggested, I'd like to continue to lurk (maybe even contribute?) if that's okay. If that's the direction things go, I can post a burner email address.

[Anonymous No.]

These are the only threads worth reading on /jp/ anymore. Ill contribute tomorrow when I'm not in bed. Just wanted to say I'm happpy to see a thread like this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20442153
>The Year 2000
>Oni
>Daemon Tools
Was going to point out that daemon tools was not around, but apparently it just come out and this thing also doesn't have CD drive.
10/10 attention to detail

[Anonymous No.]

>>20557230
>I used to download anime episodes via direct download, one at a time.
Yeah, this.
Me and a similarly interested friend of mine whould agree on who gonna donwload what episodes to combine our efforts, because it was pretty much one episode a night kind of deal, could not even watch five minutes video without buffering for half an hour.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20559465
Not to mention the websites I visited limited how many episodes you could download within a short period. I used to be a member of some now long gone anime forums where being active granted you access to their collection. I made a lot of friends there that I kept in contact for years with. I miss the place, but sadly the forums don't even exist in archive.org anymore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20558564
me too anon, this is what an otaku board is about

>>20559465
>>20557230
we would pass around dvds with the fansubs from irc burned onto them, mostly because our area had very few people with the internet speed to download and we had to rely on those people

[Anonymous No.]

>>20555253
see
>>20558564
some guys hate anything non 2hu and will sabotage out of spite. otherwise there would be lot more

[Anonymous No.]

>>20552468
>>20551971
While we definitely still get our fair shake of classic batshit insane anime these days ( 2018's Shinkalion and 2016's Concrete Revolutio instantly come to mind), it seems like most anime fans don't care for that style of storytelling these days. This is obviously a terrible metric to go off of, but if you Google "the most popular anime of the 2010s" and compare the shows that come up against a search for "the most popular anime of the 2000s", you can kind of see that a lot more of the shows that are popular nowadays are much more heavily grounded in a sense of realism. There's a real whimsical tone to most of the shows and films that were popular in that time period, and regardless of whether it was a kids show, something for otaku, or something "serious, most projects presented themselves in a very stylized fashion. It also seems like a lot more of the shows of that time period drew on what came before. You had shows like Gurren Lagann, which paid massive tribute to all super robots that came before it. You had stuff like Genshiken and Lucky Star, which were all about the community. You had a lot of parodies and spin offs at that time too, stuff like SunRed, Sasami, and a metric shit ton of OVAs for shows. I think visual novels lend themselves a lot better to this felling of whimsy too, since a lot of those games tend to have the bizarre/weird alternate endings, such as the magical girl one for School Days. But nowadays, anime really isn't like this anymore. The last big burst of this era was probably 2013/2014. Since then, we've been getting less and less original projects, and more and more adaptations of things like mobage, light novels, and manga. Now, don't get it twisted, we've always been getting a lot of adaptations, but I think one of the main differences from "then" and "now" is that when you adapt a visual novel, you're adapting a complete, finished story. It seems like a lot more completed manga got adapted then too, or at least, if it wasn't finished, then they'd just make up an ending for it. However, the true core reason why anime is getting a lot less crazy with its presentation and stories is because light novels are basically Japan's YA novels. The stories of that genre that are the most popular are the ones that have the broadest appeal, which generally means that they don't have any deep rooted identity. So unlike what most people say, I don't think it's a problem with otaku in the industry.

>>20550221
Shonen Jump's recent revamp of their manga app caused it to have a huge spike in popularity. I'm kind of worried that now all discussion of manga from SJ will be full of surface level bandwagon fans spouting memes and such, but another part of me assumes that those people will eventually fall off pretty quickly due to how long manga in that magazine tend to be. People who were still reading the Naruto manga in 2013 tend to be what I would consider "peak level fans". But I guess time can only tell on that front.

>>20561373
Honestly, as much as I love the Touhou series, it causes a huge problem on here in that it takes such a huge portion of space on the board. I'd love to see more threads on a more diverse array of interesting topics, but as long as we have our little "let's have 10 threads for one character because fuck everyone else" event multiple times a year, it's not so easy. I'd make more threads about various topics that I consider to be very much related to otaku culture (anime fighters like Guilty Gear and BlazBlue, and TCGs like Buddyfight, to be specific), but unfortunately I'm pretty sure they wouldn't fall under the board rules, and even if they did on a technicality, I'm afraid that the mods would remove them regardless.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20562695
You seem to understand in your last paragraph that Touhou, being a doujin series, is a /jp/ topic while generally talking about Japanese things like Guilty Gear* is not. I don't see why one would complain except that they wanted more non-/jp/ topics. The problem with the touhou threads, especially recently, is that a bunch of /v/tards came in and saw people don't like idols and don't like "secondaries", so they spam lots of threads and act stupid to cause trouble. The other problem is they fill the void left by /vg/ taking talk of most other content like erogames, idolmaster, and anime style mmos away. The solution is only to make (on topic) threads that you want to see and make an effort to keep them alive.
Actually that's another big problem, especially with the /v/tards who come here and make template threads. You can't just put down some shitty, non-committal sounding OP and expect discussion.

*Vanguard Princess used to be talked about here and GG and probably Arcana Heart moreso could have found their way in in those times, but if you want to talk about fighting games, you're going to have to talk about doujin ones if you want anything but to be reported.

>>20561141
>this is what an otaku board is about
I think the intention was more than this was a board to discuss figurines, VNs, LNs, and other things related to anime that weren't anime as well as otaku created doujin works, rather than constant meta threads, but I don't dislike this thread. I do feel the people here like to spend more time talking about what they don't like about this board and talking about otaku culture from an outside viewpoint rather than experiencing otaku culture themselves. Even this thread is more "why is otaku culture different nowadays" than "I watched Akihabara@deep now and here's my opinion on it."

[Anonymous No.]

>>20563241
Just a nitpick: I don't think that threads about otaku culture can really be classified as meta threads, as these threads are mostly not focused on /jp/ itself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20564167
Not that guy you're replying to but yeah this thread isn't focused on /jp/ as a board, but the discussions are clearly still in the scope of "/jp/ - Otaku Culture"

>>20563241
>Even this thread is more "why is otaku culture different nowadays" than "I watched Akihabara@deep now and here's my opinion on it."
The discussions are very off topic I agree but this is very rare case of off topic thread that develops into nice "Otaku Culture in General" discussions so I personally don't mind about being off topic lol, besides people often get lost about where to discuss certain things anyway

[Anonymous No.]

>>20564191
I think what I was really getting at is that I don't think discussions about otaku culture are off topic on this board. I think that otaku otakudom falls squarely under ``diverse niche Japanese interests'' as indicated in the board rules. It's not really an important point (hence why I sage) because these threads are rare and don't get deleted, but I felt I had to say it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20558564
You're cute anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20563241
What do you mean Guilty Gear doesn't count as "niche Japanese interest"?! But I kid, it definitely wouldn't fit with the rest of the board's content.

> Even this thread is more "why is otaku culture different nowadays" than "I watched Akihabara@deep now and here's my opinion on it."
I mean, it's kind of hard to have a really in depth discussion on this show alone, considering that it's a pretty straightforward show. On it's own, the best discussion we could probably have is arguing about whether Akira, Ism, or Yui is best girl, and maybe talking about the various references, but the only one who really seemed to have any serious level of knowledge about what the show has going on was >>20482142, and they've been gone for a good while. I guess we could talk about the differences between the novel, manga, show, and film, but I'm pretty sure no one here has consumed everything from the series yet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20543674
Do you think once a manga gets animated, it pretty much opens the floodgates to cancer? Making things more accessible should be a good thing, yet inevitably, it seems to bring ruin as well. Or is that just me being jaded and pessimistic?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20476052
>various angels (I can only remember one which is Chise from Saikano)/demons/deity/king/fantasy wizard-ish characters with elaborate outfits which I don't know what fucking series they come from
>SEA
The Ramayana maybe? I mean, Sompote Sands put Hanuman in one of his Kamen Rider movies.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20543674
>anime crack videos
what the fuck

[Anonymous No.]

My dream is to organize a doujin convention by myself or with some friends in my shithole country, I want a place that allows people with passion for the medium to actively participate and contribute to what they love.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20572193

[Anonymous No.]

>>20572214
This is the lamest shit I have ever seen in my life.
Is this a joke?
???
?
I hope you can understand how confused I am right now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20572275
Have you been living under a rock?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20572385
Luckily, yes.
I'm never getting out of my rock again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20572275
Now you know what an "ironic weeb" is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20572385
>>20572214
Why would you willingly look up or go to any of this stuff to even know about it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20570432
It's just you that's being too jaded and pessimistic. Sure anime adaptations most of the time don't hold up with the source materials quality wise but the rare ones who do are always great to see. Also even if they don't hold up, at the very least it's exciting to see characters move, talk, and act in full color with music. Anime and OVA are great and this despite my very biased preferences to reading-based media most of the time

>>20572275
That kind of things cater to cancer man, there's a reason why media choices depict the people who enjoy them

[Anonymous No.]

>>20570432
>>20573183
I think what they were getting at is that when a manga gets adapted, it opens the doors to a much wider audience then just the type of people who read manga, aka normalfiends, not so much that the adaptations themselves are "cancer". On that idea, they're definitely not wrong. Most narutards became narutards because of the anime, not the manga. Hero Aacdemia fans didn't start spamming every single comment section of Yuki Hayashi songs with references to Hero Academia until the anime took off. The more accessible something is, the bigger pool of people will be fans of it, and the bigger the pool, the more likely that jackasses will be involved. Jackasses attract more jackasses (because the idea of "opposites attract" is more of a storytelling trope than a reality), and said jackasses always end up being the loudest voice, so the whole community ends up being viewed as those jackasses, with the fans who just want to enjoy their thing have to either constantly defend themselves and the thing they like in the regular spaces, or get forced into smaller spaces. A great case in point of this outside of otakuism is Undertale. A great case of this in otakuism is VN fans.

>>20572699
Personally I think the term "ironic weebs" is a weak term to use, because generally it's less about them only liking anime and otakuism ironically, and more that they only engage with anime and otakuism on the most basic and accessible level possible. In the beginning (at least for US fans), the most accessible way to watch anime was going to a club and watching the imported tapes with everyone else, so even the most basic fans were still pretty invested. Fast forward to a little after that, and the most basic level became watching what was on TV. Nowadays, the level of accessibility has dropped even lower, to where you don't even need to watch the shows to be a fan. All you have to do is follow the memes and keep up with what the most popular currently airing shows are, and you're good to go. I think it's inaccurate to call them "ironic" because they legitimately do enjoy what they're seeing, but it's even more inaccurate to group them with the people who are heavily into otaku culture. If you've read that thread (not sure if it's still up) about "What do you hate about the touhou fandom", most of it really just boils down to "people who I perceive to be not as much of a real fan as me". For people who are really invested in something, its a real fight to maintain that they are a real fan, and anyone who also claims to be a real fan who isn't on the same level as them is a threat to their identity. I think is what makes conventions a real pain in the ass for people who are really into otaku culture (like people in this thread for instance). At a big con, you're surrounded by shallow water fans probably 95% of the time. Add onto that the whole ordeal of cosplayers only there to take pictures, take up space, get drunk afterwards and do nothing else, and actually finding people who are into this whole thing as much as you is pretty much relegated to a handful of panels (and maybe the game room, if you're really into fighters or rhythm games and they have them there). Smaller cons are even worse, because you're lucky if there's even one panel that you'd like.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20573608
Are panels a western thing or do Japanese cons sometimes have voice actors meeting fans and stuff like that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20573673
Take all of this with a massive grain of salt, because I don't live in Japan. As far as I know, most (if not all) of the meet and greet and QnA panels happen at solo events specifically for those purposes. For example, every year, Super Sentai has an event where it introduces the new actors for the next show, and that's the whole event. There's many different VA events that are like that. I'm not even sure if Japan really has "anime conventions" in the same way we do over here. And why would they? There's nothing that happens at a convention that doesn't happen in Akihabara anyways (events to meet people who work in anime, music events, shopping, places to meet fellow fans). As far as I can tell, most Japanese "anime events" are doujin and/or cosplay events.

[Anonymous No.]

Some time since I last posted here! Spent a week in Athens and almost forgot about my A@D watching duties. I'll return later today with episodes... five and six, as it seems.


>>20539452
I'm more of a "The Diary of Horace Wimp" person. It's not as good as an opening theme, but it could very well be adapted into a romance manga. "Horace met a girl, she was small and she was very pretty" - can you get better source material than that? The potential is overflowing.

>>20539510
The catalogs contain several dozen guideline pages, then alphabetically ordered circle list followed by grids of circles(including icons) and a map of their placement - aside from the guidelines,this appears once per day of the event(so three times). Each of them is around 1300 pages long, and though they're a bit worn out, the majority of them are in good condition. Only one of them has a page slightly falling off.
They're also extremely heavy and bulky.

>>20557731
>>20566678
No worries! If the thread finds its end, I'll be sure to get it back running again. Or shift it to another, more collected place. We'll find a way.



On another note, I want to say that though I am relatively knowledgeable of otaku culture, I haven't even once heard of "anime crack video" until today. Of course, I took a look at a few, and I must say, this content is so shallow that a bot could come up with such videos. I hoped they would at least be "Green Day AMV" quality...

[Anonymous No.]

>>20573897
>I hoped they would at least be "Green Day AMV" quality...
I'm impressed every day by things that were obliviously made with less presence of mind than Morestar.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20463819
>>20540454
The manga version of gaikotsu shotenin honda san mentions that many foreign yaoi fans are muslims who use their time in Japan as an opportunity to go all fucking out and carry around bags plastered with yaoi illustrations
(Sorry for the small size - it's all I could find that was translated)

[Anonymous No.]

>>20573897
>I haven't even once heard of "anime crack video" until today. Of course, I took a look at a few, and I must say, this content is so shallow that a bot could come up with such videos. I hoped they would at least be "Green Day AMV" quality...
It's worse on other social media. Don't ask me how I know.

Just as the Spice must flow, the people must have their Content...

[Anonymous No.]

>>20572895
No need to look anything up, since this kind of content has been all over youtube for several years now. Even simply searching for "anime" won't give you particularly better results.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20574937
No need to look anything up, since this kind of content has been all over youtube for several years now. Even simply searching "anime" won't give you particularly better results.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20572895
No need to look anything up, since this kind of content has been all over youtube for several years now. Even simply searching "anime" won't give you particularly better results.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20574962
Why would you be searching "anime" on youtube? I don't get it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20572895
>>20572193
I'm pretty sure anime crack videos have been around as long as crack videos have been a thing on Youtube since I remember watching them back when I was in high school.

[Anonymous No.]

I have nothing to add to this conversation. I just wanted to say I've spent the last half hour reading it and I think it's amazing. Though I wanted to respond to this

>>20562695
So would you say if the 80s anime were considered the formative definitive times of otaku culture, the 90s anime as a sort of golden otaku age and the 00s anime as a celebration of what came before, then would the 10s anime be like "okay how can we profit off of the previous celebration"?

[Anonymous No.]

I also have nothing to add to this conversation.

But now after rewatching it because of this thread, must say, first time I watched it I didnt got as much references, jokes or just cultural things as now.
But my god its low budget, production quality and acting is so over the place that its even made it more intersting, ad libs, and just wierd reaction shots, they covered it somehow in behind the scenes, but still, so many times I just couldn't tell if its characters reacting or actors themselves, or if something was scripted or they just did it randomly, creates that feel of fun self awareness to it, like that "five takes of Wildo-Wido" sequence.

My theory is that otaku centric show like this was only possible at this budget back then, because movie with much more money, better actors and better everything, fails completly at otaku side of things, as if producers were afraid to put it in, or even gainst it.
If done today on the other hand, it whould be better produced than Akibaranger, otaku autentic, full of references, with popular idols, quality music and all that, but I doubt they include rape, drugs and suicide in it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20575483
You must be quite young then. They've been around since about 2015ish, I think. Basically when "ironic weebs" became a thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20577944
Weren't AMV Hell and those types basically crack videos though? That's pretty old

[Anonymous No.]

What a grisly fifth episode! Suicide, drugs and murder join hands to bring terror to Akihabara. Though I'd expect the real Akihabara to have a much more apparent police presence, I'm fine with the eeriness of these few having to work together to deliver justice - to the point of joining up with Digital Capital. The actor behind Shimoyanagi delivers wonderful performance here as well, and it's hilarious that Sati could tell what the drug was so easily. I'm actually not too sure how much of an epidemic it is in Japan, and beyond that, how much there is to it behind Akiba culture. I feel like a lot about substance abuse in Japan is hushed down as far as external reporting goes, maybe local Japanese news reflect it better.

The included image is CEO Nakagomi with a 2channel-based Mona cup. I previously spoke of "itteyoshi" - a phrase accompanied by a cat mascot called "Giko". This its counterpart, with the writing 'omae mo na' meaning "You too, huh?"(that is where the name is from, as well). I ought to look up more about 2channel, I really do not know enough about it. If anybody can tell me about it, or otherwise share material in English about it, please do. I'll return with my thoughts of episode six tomorrow.

>>20579729
Now that I think about it, these crack videos are somewhat reminiscent of AMV Hell. I guess they're not too far apart. Or are Anime Crack videos worse than what AMV Hell was at the time?

>>20577734
Considering Densha Otoko that aired before it and had higher production quality, I wouldn't necessarily say higher budget would make it better. But I definitely think an amateurish vibe is necessary to convey the Akihabara spirit of the time. At the very least, watching in 2019, it makes the dated atmosphere linger for longer.

>>20572211
I wish you good luck on creating even a small circle of people who can enjoy doujin content and otherwise peer deeper into otaku. It's a wide, wonderful world. I'm lucky to be in the presence of fellow writers for the local otaku magazine, who are each experts in a separate field. You can definitely do it.

[Anonymous No.]

This thread is VIP quality.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20572211
Now that I think about it I don't know from where to start.
Around here artists rarely participate in cons, and in these rare cases, it's usually just a few illustrations and comissions. Cosplay, FG and Corporate bullshit always take the spotlight.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20583350
FG?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20583357
Fighting Games, cons prefer to diversify than to specialize.
And don't forget bootleg merchandise too, drives me nuts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20583385
Do they ever play Arcana Heart at these cons?

I think a couple of problem with starting up a doujin culture is
A: getting past the "if it's not draw by a Japanese, it's shit" mentality and
B: that most popular things are what gets broadcast outside of Japan, meaning people can come down with copyright violations on doujin works

[Anonymous No.]

>>20583397
>Arcana Heart
Haven't really seen anything outside of Smash Bros., Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, King of Fighters, Marvel vs Capcom or Injustice. One time I got a glimpse of Skullgirls but that wasn't at a con.

>"if it's not draw by a Japanese, it's shit" mentality
I think that's exclusive to 4chan as far as I have seen.

>copyright violations
I'm aiming for original content rather than fanworks, but I'm in a 3rd world country anyways so as long as things stay small everything should run smooth.

[Anonymous No.]

Remember watching it after Ikebukuro West Gate Park because it had the same author that wrote the novels for those two before they got adapted. I remember not liking @deep because it had a lower budget feel, might give it a second go at it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20557230
I use to stream anime on Manga Entertainment website I think that's what it was. The stream vid was around 240p and the audio would have that annoying crackling sound, but it was "good enough" in the early 2000's. Quality did improved on streaming sites by mid 2000's with better streaming encodes, plus the help of DSL/Cable becoming more common by then.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20583491
In my country (also 3rd world), the only doujin event that works and keep increasing in its size/participants has several key differences with other "generic weeb" cons from my observations. The main differences are :
- No bootleg booths in any kind of form other than official corporate booths, but give the creators freedom to sell what kind of original things they want to sell (I don't know the culture of your country but here people are much more willing to pay both for bootlegged or original content if it's in the form of something that can be used. Examples are keychains, girly accessories/earrings/necklaces etc, shirts, jackets, figures and so on. Basically free for all event who combine both artist alley-ish type of stuffs with comics/novels/illustrations/music CDs type of stuffs)
- Adjust the ratio of "generic-con type weeb stars/communities" and "weeb stars/communities who actually create stuffs/have the doujin spirit" evenly
- Selling lewds is a must, but adjust the level of lewds according to your country's law, culture, and how far you can get away with it
- Make sure there are enough content creators first. Only if the amount is viable enough that you can continue to plan the event like you plan any other event (financially viable or not, taking care of manpower/security/equipment/the amount of interest etc)
- Big enough populations to make finding those content creators/stars/communities/circles actually possible

I don't bother to try to do this in my city because I don't have the time and my city don't have enough content creators to make it work. The biggest city in my country (which is fucking tiring to travel to from where I live) make it possible though. If it's impossible like in my case, just delve yourself to whatever you like and actually create contents already puts you above 90% weeb in my opinion.

I draw, sculpt, and compose music in my free time because of my personal interests and to participate at least as the content creator in my area someday if actually initiating the event is impossible for now. Just my 2 cents

[Anonymous No.]

>>20584224
>- Adjust the ratio of "generic-con type weeb stars/communities" and "weeb stars/communities who actually create stuffs/have the doujin spirit" evenly
What do you mean by weeb stars/communities?

Also, may I ask from which country are you from? I'm hopeful that I'm just out of touch of my country's cons and haven't heard of the one you mentioned.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20582231
>The included image is CEO Nakagomi with a 2channel-based Mona cup. I previously spoke of "itteyoshi" - a phrase accompanied by a cat mascot called "Giko". This its counterpart, with the writing 'omae mo na' meaning "You too, huh?"(that is where the name is from, as well).

I might be a little out of the subject here but I'm actually playing steins gate 0 and it's funny that Giko mascot appears in it as well.
Kurisu is an @channeler, direct reference to 2 chan, and she owns a plush of this mascot.
Pic related is Maho, from the anime I guess (I didn't watch it).

Nothing really interesting but I thought I'd share. /blog

[Anonymous No.]

>>20583397
>>20583491
>"if it's not draw by a Japanese, it's shit" mentality
I have to admit that is my mentality to some degree. Specifically, when westerners try to draw something "anime-style" it is always recognizable as being drawn by a westerner, and I never really like it. Western style art/cartoons can look good, but that weird halfway point where they draw a pseudo-anime style just angers me. Might be a slightly irrational anger. There has been western art that has managed to look authentic, but it is just rare. I think the reason for this might have to do with conditioning and being surrounded by certain ideas and art styles when growing up, so these artists do it subconsciously or something. I mean, someone who grows up in Japan grows up reading manga from elementary school, seeing anime characters in their commercials for everything from department stores to city mascots, and if they get into anime enough to want to draw it, obviously they surround themselves even more. It would be hard to replicate that level of immersion somewhere else. On top of that, the whole thing about individuality in the west, I believe, causes people to want to differentiate their art much more. If their art were to look too much like anime, it would be too generic, so they always try to put their own twist to things. In short, I don't really enjoy walking through the artist gallery at conventions. The art on display completely misses its mark with me.

Anyway, those are my thoughts in a nutshell. Sorry for the rant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20583397
>"if it's not draw by a Japanese, it's shit"
But this is true 99.99% of the time. There are a few western indie projects I follow occasionally. Without fail, every single one of them starts a patreon and then gets lazy.

The difference between Japan and the west is purely one of work ethic. The Japs have it drilled into them from an early age, the more time you invest, the better. The west seems more focused on the result over the execution, which is great from a societal standpoint, but terrible for art. This is why there are thousands of Japanese artists pumping out really, really high quality stuff every day or two on Pixiv and Twitter, and absolutely nobody in the western scene that even comes close. You can use excuses like "money" or whatever, but these days most Patreon whores are making 10 to 100 times what their equivalent Japanese creators are making, and they're producing 1/10th to 1/100th of the actual content.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20585372
>Specifically, when westerners try to draw something "anime-style" it is always recognizable as being drawn by a westerner, and I never really like it. Western style art/cartoons can look good, but that weird halfway point where they draw a pseudo-anime style just angers me. Might be a slightly irrational anger.
You can really alleviate this by spending a lot of time on pixiv. There are a lot of Japanese that draw in the same way as westerners who are equally poor at anime style and it makes you realize that people who can't draw just cannot draw rather than there's something preventing them from emulating "anime style". Reading manga helps too, especially reading the first few chapters of long running ones that only have acceptable art at the latest point.

I think the problem is in emulating the actual style of an anime to begin with instead of manga.
You may also be being picky about what you consider "anime style"(e.g. do you consider Sonic or Princess Peach anime style? Plenty of westerns can draw them fine.), in which case just looking up a bunch of kids anime will fix that.

>>20585419
Most high quality western artists are either drawing "western style" or "furries", which I would call western, but it seems to be somehow merged into "anime style" as the standard from what I've seen.
Westerners do have a few specific issues though. One big one is the way they interpret and thus render "loli", which seems to be invariably as either "midget" or "5 year old". Another is how there's some idea that porn needs to be artistic or humorous.

>one of work ethic.
Nah, people like Yassy wouldn't exist in such an environment.

>The west seems more focused on the result over the execution, which is great from a societal standpoint, but terrible for art.
Maybe, but it seems good from a full on comic standpoint. The question is why there's a big commission market but so few comics.
I also don't really think generic portraits of anime girls is particularly artistic either.

>>20583491
>I think that's exclusive to 4chan as far as I have seen.
It may be exclusive to the western internet otaku network(including boorus, etc)

>>20584224
>Make sure there are enough content creators first. Only if the amount is viable enough that you can continue to plan the event like you plan any other event
>Big enough populations to make finding those content creators/stars/communities/circles actually possible
A huge problem with America. Small countries can gather people up in places but no one's going from Maine to Oregon to sell 200 copies of their tentacle rape flipbooks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20585372
>>20585419

You guys should take a look at ankama's publications, and most particularly wakfu, that is if you haven't already. Maybe you could change your mind about the subject.
I think that wakfu was a wonderful western anime, with great design, mostly anime-like themes, lots of jokes intended at gamers and weebs and good animations because of flash.


Ankama started as a group of real enthusiastics and I think they still attract this kind of people even though they pushed some bad economic models into their games and grew up as a corporation.


It's only my opinion and yours might differ, but I'm pretty sure you should at least check the first few episodes of wakfu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20585663
There's plenty of decent western animation, what I'm talking about are indie markets where there's no actual deadlines to meet and no producers breathing down your neck.

If anyone can do a reasonable facsimile of Japanese subculture it's the French, but at the end of the day it's very much an isolated work aimed purely at children. It also has nothing to do with doujin culture, because by the time they were making things like Wakfu they had hundreds of employees and probably 10 times the funding most professional anime studios have.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20585663
I've never heard of Wakfu before, but is this an accurate screenshot of what you are talking about? Because if so, this is exactly what I was talking about, it just screams "west" at me. The way the noses and freckles and arms, just everything about it, is drawn. It looks like a cheap knockoff. I could spot this as western from a mile away and it looks awful. Sorry, but in my mind, this just proves my point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20585419
this is very true, i can see people arguing against it for the solely reason of no "sucking japan's dick" but objectively it is correct, especially the part where you mention pixiv artists and put them in comparison to western "artists", which nowadays are more attention whores.
part of the problem of online artists in general i believe is patreon itself, you see all these people making such good easy money off of their art/work which can range from cosplaying to digital art, and the average western artist strives for that, it's almost like once he accepts that he loses the original passion that should fuel his work, en contre most japanese artists dont even know of patreon and the succesfull ones make money by selling you their booklets firsthand, and that's what satisfies them. (which i think is really cool considering you have the art you admire in physical form and you know you're funding the artist directly).

[Anonymous No.]

>>20585663
I miss 90s semi-anime western cartoons back when cartoons were outsourced to Japan instead of even Japan outsourcing to Korea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqrp3cx4ngw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOI_f8CYD1M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27p1TBLhjDI

>mostly anime-like themes, lots of jokes intended at gamers and weebs
I don't like when anime-like things do this. Or when actual anime do this. Feels like either pandering or ignorant parody usually.

>good animations because of flash.
Can't help but have a giggle at this line.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20586308
>en contre most japanese artists dont even know of patreon and the succesfull ones make money by selling you their booklets firsthand
Unhuh. And what is enty, fanbox, etc?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20586352
you are correct, i dont know why i wrote it as if that's their only source of income which is retarded, my point was that even with all that income they get it's nowhere near what they'd make on patreon with the quality of content that they put out, and frankly i dont know if that's ok with them, that's one question i have, i wonder if most real artists prefer just making money off of their work and are satisfied living off that fact or if people would prefer going the extra mile and sell them out any way they can if that makes them more money. i dont know if most japanese artists are just blind to the fact that patreon exist or if they just reject it, patreon is really good because it's basically a salary for you to live off, i know some people who wouldn't accept it on the fact that's accepting donations, kind of like how in some countries like N.A. you're expected to give the deliveryman something and in most others you're not.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20586387
The japanese have multiple japanese equivalents of patreon. And some are doing really well. I follow a lot of doujin artists who use ci-en/enty/pixiv fan box and then also sell their stuff on booth/melonbooks/toranoana/Alice books for those who can't attend doujin events. Patreon isnt the end-all, and I'm pretty sure the language barrier is the reason why japanese artists dont flock to it quickly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20557230
Around '98/'99, I had already discovered p2p programs like Napster/Kazaa/Morpheus. Love Hina was the first series I downloaded in 64MB realmedia format and this was with dial-up. A few years later, at college, I got a taste of high speed internet and found out bit torrent (the original program) where I really started revving up the anime downloads. And I also learned to limit download/upload speeds because that clogs up the lines and they confiscated the HDD from the PC I was using in class. That was also the same place a guy was showing off 1st version of Melty Blood in the computer lab. That was my first foray into the doujin scene and into Type-Moon. Good times.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20582231
>Now that I think about it, these crack videos are somewhat reminiscent of AMV Hell. I guess they're not too far apart. Or are Anime Crack videos worse than what AMV Hell was at the time?
This is just from my own experiences, but back when I was in high school most AMVs were made by kids and hobbyists to upload to Newgrounds for fun. These Anime Crack videos seem to me like they're made or even machine generated to game Youtube's ad revenue system.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20587421
The first series I downloaded was Excel Saga after we watched some of it in my school's anime club. I downloaded the episodes individually via DDL. This must have been around 2005. The first series I remember really watching as it aired was Gundam Seed Destiny, though I started keeping up with it halfway through its run (I caught up and then kept up). I wish I knew people who liked Type-Moon stuff back then, but my first introduction to it was the Deen FSN adaptation which I saw all at once shortly after it aired, and then the Tsukihime VN in December of 2007. Those were good times, its crazy to think how much has happened in only about a decade and a half.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20586205
>the noses
Flat anime noses aren't a style. They represent a racial characteristic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20587421
That's exactly how I got into it, right down to Melty Blood in the computer lab
I managed to keep most of the videos I downloaded off the old p2p programs around, yellow-subbed camrips and all. They survived by a bit of a fluke, since HDs in 2000 filled up fast, so you'd keep your backlog on cheap CDrs. That meant they stayed safe through multiple HD failures throughout the years, of course I consciously back up these days.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20586205
just watch the goultard pilot and then decide.

[Anonymous No.]

How do you guys feel about Begin Japanology?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20562695
>The last big burst of this era was probably 2013/2014
can you elaborate on this a little more?
there's definitely a subtle shift in terms of feel and art style from early 2000s to mid/late 2000s and then to early 2010s

[Anonymous No.]

>>20591214
I think the shift you're talking about can be contributed to two things. First, artists and studios became much more comfortable and proficient with digital tools over this time period. This meant that the much more organic feel of the 80s/90s gave way to the much cleaner style of the 2000s/2010s. Secondly, by the time the 2000s came about, we'd already gone through several generations of otaku, so the codifiers of the culture had become much more blatant. The concept of "moe anime" really reached a fever pitch in this era. I think there's a lot more too it then that (the general feelings of the Japanese people over time, the economy, etc), but I thikn those are the main pillars.

As for 2013/2014 being an "end of an era" of sorts, it's pretty subjective on my part honestly. I'm sure that plenty of people consider Attack on Titan's entry to the scene to be the end of the era, but for me, when I look at those two years, I see a lot of swan songs to otaku staples up to that point: the final Madoka movie, the last season of The World God Only Knows, Little Busters EX, BTB and Tamako being the last "classic" KyoAni shows, the Magical Index film, White Album 2, Naruto The Last, the revivals of the classics in the forms of Gatchaman Crowds and Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods, and the plethora of really bizarre shows that came out in that time like The Eccentric Family, Kyousougiga, Yozakura Quartet, Space Dandy, and Tonari no Seki-kun. All of these (with the exception of the Naruto and DBZ movies, and even then, at the time, Naruto's movie was seen to be the finale, and DBZ's film was seen as a one off thing) were pretty much the last of their type of shows, which had been absolutely dominant for the entire decade up until that point. It was really the last big wave of whimsical, crazy, and pure otaku shows we had.

>>20575497
>would the 10s anime be like "okay how can we profit off of the previous celebration"?
I don't think I'd say anime has been maximized for profit. I think if it were, every series would be aimed at PreCure's demographic and be raking in those toy sales. I think the only thing you can point to that has been optimized for profit is mobage, aka the modern day capsule machine. Japanese prize machines are much less rigged then the ones in the west, where as mobile games with microtransaction systems are rigged no matter where you live. I think the main difference between otaku in any period of time has been in the influence of the internet, and how much otaku culture was integrated into the "mainstream" websites at that time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20590263
I've only ever seen the arcades episode, but just from that, it seemed like a really cool show. The information was thorough without being overbearing, and the host was really cool. I might watch more episodes in the future.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20590263
I forgot I had downloaded it. 400+ episodes is a bit much to marathon. I picked one at random and it was about a guy who does localization work. Pretty cool since I found out he was responsible for one of my favorite games which I wasn't expecting.

[Anonymous No.]

I think sincerity is the real issue here. Particularly with the pop-culture conglomerate thing you brought up.
Many of those normalfriends are interested insofar as something gives them social capital when they show off the interest. That's not why we're in it.
It's frustrating when you grow up being wary of how people would see what you're passionate about, and then see someone who is only half-interested in that topic wearing it like a brand name shirt, semi-ironically. Or "shipping" characters while squeeing on twitter, yet being uninterested in discussing anything other than that aspect of the media in question.
I'm into a mix of stuff, I won't deny it. Gaming, grognardy historical miniatures, anime/manga, idols. But I don't advertise this shit, because I don't see why I have any reason to do so. I'm not interested in niche stuff just to go
>LEL SO FUNNAY JAPAN WEIRD
on Twitter.
In fact, I couldn't do that, because I really love this stuff, and I don't see it as a fucking joke.
Hell, I don't even know how I'd do that with some of my interests. How would I get people to RT me making jokes about how hard it is to paint 28mm French Indochinese Paratroopers? I'd just look like an autist.
But normalfags are defined by their desire to gain social capital over everything else. If I was rich, I would just spend it on doing the stuff I want to do. If many normalfags became rich, they'd spend their money on doing things to get them noticed. Because even money is less valuable to them than social capital. Look at Instagram and Twitter. Top things people post about are fitness, food, travel. But these people don't care about fitness, food, or travel. Those are just the most easily marketed for gain of social capital. So even the /fit/izens bitch about normies, and /ck/, and /trv/.

Sorry, this whole thread has me a bit emotional. I hope it made sense. Basically, western otaku stuff has been publicly dominated by people who want to use it for social capital, rather than personal interest. They'd rather tweet about how much they
>omg stan this new character they've never heard of before this episode of trending anime X
Than actually discuss something about it with a friend because they both love it genuinely.

It gets to the point where being actually dedicated and passionate is seen as creepy. And that's the line. Real passion is creepy and weird. Interest for social capital is acceptable.

[Anonymous No.]

Sorry, forgot to quote. This >>20595441
Is for you anon >>20450827

[Anonymous No.]

>>20595216
>Space Dandy
As someone who grew up on a steady diet of golden age science fiction novels and English comedy, Space Dandy was fucking brilliance. Probably one of my favourite anime. When I mention it to even most otaku, they look at me all confused. I suspect it didn't do very well popularity wise.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20463819
They were probably Indonesian Muslims, so keep in mind they don't have the Arabic culture thing going on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20539452
It was the right song, in the right place, and the right time.
It carries the themes of science-fiction and wonder, while having a story about how the future is not always better, thus adding an inherent nostalgia element separate from context. At the same time, it holds fascinating relevance for both western nerds and eastern otaku, as it was used for an event that was really about both worlds (dai-kon), by animators who helped those eastern nerd things reach a point where they could touch our lives in the west.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20462341
>identities instead of topics.
Individualism is one hell of a drug.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20595441
>If I was rich, I would just spend it on doing the stuff I want to do. If many normalfags became rich, they'd spend their money on doing things to get them noticed.
Are you sure? I'd figure they would spend it on stupid shit they fantasized about, not just stuff to show off but just the typical stuff like expensive cars, boats, trips, and houses. You sort of make it sound like they'd blow some of it buying 500 laserdisc copies of Urotsukidouji (if it even had any) just to post about it on twitter.

>How would I get people to RT me making jokes about how hard it is to paint 28mm French Indochinese Paratroopers? I'd just look like an autist.
I don't think miniature wargames are that unpopular, at least not 40k and similar ones. You probably wouldn't like being part of those groups though if you only like historical minis.

>I would just spend it on doing the stuff I want to do.
Are you implying that the normalfags don't really want to be noticed? If it's what they wish to spend their time doing, it's not really that different from what you'd do.

>It gets to the point where being actually dedicated and passionate is seen as creepy
It's always been that way. Your problem is just slightly the older "being a (superficial) nerd is cool now" problem. Prior to that, all nerds were creepy without exception.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20595441
>If I was rich, I would just spend it on doing the stuff I want to do. If many normalfags became rich, they'd spend their money on doing things to get them noticed.
Are you sure? I'd figure they would spend it on stupid shit they fantasized about, not just stuff to show off but just the typical stuff like expensive cars, boats, trips, and houses. You sort of make it sound like they'd blow some of it buying 500 laserdisc copies of Urotsukidouji (if it even had any) just to post about it on twitter.

>How would I get people to RT me making jokes about how hard it is to paint 28mm French Indochinese Paratroopers? I'd just look like an autist.
I don't think miniature wargames are that unpopular, at least not 40k and similar ones. You probably wouldn't like being part of those groups though if you only like historical minis.

>I would just spend it on doing the stuff I want to do.
Are you implying that the normalfags don't really want to be noticed? If it's what they wish to spend their time doing, it's not really that different from what you'd do.

>It gets to the point where being actually dedicated and passionate is seen as creepy
It's always been that way. Your problem is just the slightly older "being a (superficial) nerd is cool now" problem. Prior to that, all nerds were creepy without exception

[Anonymous No.]

>>20595784
I'm going to reply point by point to avoid confusion.

1. Unless they really like those things specifically, cars, boats and houses will be used to show off. Their trips will be plastered all over social media to show how they went to all the places you're supposed to go when you go travelling. I'm saying they'd spend money doing things to impress others.
And you know what? Maybe they will blow their money on some bullshit. There are rich people who buy things from subcultures just to tweet about it, when they don't even really care much. But I don't mean they'd do that with subculture specifically, just anything. Typically the mainstream stuff.

2.
Miniature wargames have a high bar to entry. Historical gaming is does not offer any social capital, since no-one cares about it. True, you can become a Warhammer vlogger or batrep person or something, but even that's limited in it's normie appeal. In general it's a difficult enough thing to get into that it holds little potential for social capital.

3.
My god no. The opposite. I think they absolutely WANT to be noticed above anything else. The difference is, one person might but an old nice house because it holds some relevance to them architecturally, historically, or the like, something that satisfies them personally apart from just showing it off. Whereas the normie will buy the old nice house because it's big and they can show it off as a piece of social capital.

4.
Ah I know that's true. Of course I grew up among that feeling. But now it makes things feel less secure. As people mentioned about conventions. You used to be among people who were mostly there because they just really liked the stuff, regardless of how cool it made them. Now you get people who are there for social capital first, and the topic second, if even that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20595866
>3
Nonetheless you're still sort of implying being an attention whore isn't a hobby or interest. Both the people buy the house because it's relevant to their interests. You're trying to portray them as soulless beings who don't really care about anything when they could get just as much fulfillment out of being noticed as you do about finishing a new miniature. I know your point is that they aren't passionate about your hobbies, but are they not passionate about their hobby of seeking social capital? With the ultimate point being wouldn't they still be spending their money on something they wanted to do?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20596039
I don't think they're any lesser for it. They have their own interest. And hell, it probably does more for their life and social standing than anything I'm into. But that's why I said sincerity is what bothers people. Because they're not being entirely honest about being "attention whores" (I don't really like the term but I get it) as a hobby. Why would they? No self-respecting attention whore admits that they are one.
Sorry if I come off as belligerent against these people. I don't mean to be. I'm just trying to express why people find themselves frustrated with them, beyond the whole "fake nerd/ironic weeaboo" simplification.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20595459
I too wonder why it was forgotten so quickly, despite all the hype... or maybe because of it? I think that a partial reason would be all the people being unjustly disappointed that it wasn't the "new Cowboy Bepop", but for the rest I only have some guesses. Maybe it was the ever-changing art direction? The fact that it was "too Westernized" and cartoony in style and structure? (then again it worked with PS&G) Dandy being seen as "sexist"? Not enough waifus? It surprises me how little anime fans and writers talked about it after it finished.

As for me I admit being a little disappointed in the first cour (with some shitty episodes like the one with the two warring aliens), but then I saw the second cour and loved it, with some brilliant stories.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20596769
Just as Bebop was very western in inspiration, Dandy was as well. Just more in the realm of Sci-fi comedy and the more speculative realms of western sci-fi. There were even quite direct nods to works like the Hitchhikers Guide, some stuff by Asimov, (as well as lighter content like a few spoofs of Star Trek/Wars) that would have gone almost entirely unnoticed in many Japanese media circles. So I think it was a mix of virtually no eligible waifus, eccentric art, boomer-era inspiration, and demographically distant themes, released for a very millennial demographic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20596922
>There were even quite direct nods to works like the Hitchhikers Guide, some stuff by Asimov, (as well as lighter content like a few spoofs of Star Trek/Wars) that would have gone almost entirely unnoticed in many Japanese media circles.
Are you sure? I don't think Japanese otaku are as focused on Japan only media as western otaku are.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20597136
Oh I'm sure critics would get it.
I meant more your young, millennial, majority Otaku who are more into Marvel than Asimov. The ones who buy blu-ray and merch.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20595441
>It gets to the point where being actually dedicated and passionate is seen as creepy. And that's the line. Real passion is creepy and weird. Interest for social capital is acceptable.
I have a lot of thoughts on this subject stemming from my old job working with these people, but I'll try to summarize to avoid sending the thread off-topic.

The problem is that, with the rise of social media, people who work in many of the knowledge-based professions face dual pressures of a) constantly having to check their words and actions in public to make sure nothing could be taken out of context online and b) having to constantly market one's self in order to stay employable, as most work in many of the professional and managerial classes has shifted from long-term, full-time positions with job stability to independent contracts and temporary jobs where you can be fired for anything.

Many of these people turn to traditionally geeky interests such as capeshit, sci-fi, acceptable anime and vidya, and a grab bag of other hobbies. They're passive and don't require much of a time investment, are easily purchased, and can be used as colourful props or conversation starters for social media in networking with other professionals that are "performatively" geeky. And they are suitable stand-ins for genuine human emotions and behaviours without any of the risk of saying something off-colour and having your reputation trashed by your peers.

I don't actually get mad at these people for effectively gentrifying these interests; they're only reacting to the incentives created by a relatively free market. Many of these professional types actually had a genuine interest in the hobbies they use to generate social capital and the pressures of their career have drained a lot of their enjoyment of, say, My Little Pony or N64 games. The hyper-competitive nature of these careers has a tendency to take over your whole life - everything must be made marketable if it can give you an edge against your fifty competitors for one or two jobs. Of course, I don't get mad at them because there's little danger of them going after my degenerate H dojinshi.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20596039
I'm not very good at writing, so I'll try to keep my post short. I agree that ``seeking social capital'' can be seen as a hobby. However, I think this is in some sense irrelevant to the discussion at hand. If group B's hobby is to perform actions which have a negative side effect on group A's hobby, and moreover group B does not care about its effects on group A, then certainly group A is going to dislike group B. This is amplified in this case where group B, the ``fauxtaku'', pretend to be part of group A, the ``otaku''.

(On a more personal note, I empathize towards those ``fauxtaku'' who are so for career purposes, as >>20597621 describes. Even if hobby and career might be in the same abstract folder, I guess I'm more lenient towards the latter. However, I do not think this phenomenon is more superficial, and so does not have as negative of effects.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>20599324
I don't think it's always a negative effect, but I think social aptitude has something to do with it. The people who wear the interest for purposes of accruing social capital are likely to be more socially adept than the "Core" geeks. They will likely have actively developed charisma, utilize sex appeal, and socially maneuver. This leads the subject focused geeks feeling like they've been "taken over". Whereas, the new geeks will not have noticed a difference, and will assume they are welcome. Failing to realize that they've simply built a new commuity, rather than joined one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20599324
Oops,
>I do not think this phenomenon ...
should be
>I think this phenomenon ...
Sorry.

>>20599394
In cases where content is not made solely as labors of love by geeks (anime is the obvious example, but I think most things fall under this), just the presence of non-core geeks can negatively effect the core geeks.

Put differently, I would agree with you if the communities were self-sustainable, but I think most communities aren't.

[Anonymous No.]

You know, this entire discussion about otaku is kinda retarded when you realize it's just a word for geek basically and there are many different kinds: あにおた、　せいおた、電車ヲタ、　etc. with サバヲタ probably being the most recent.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20600890
No one cares about otaku outside of anime oriented otaku and the cross over between them and military otaku and gaming otaku.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20601240
Yes it's clearly no one cares (outside of actual Japanese otakus) that's why you have retarded discussions based on a faulty premise.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20601303
No you're just a retard

[Anonymous No.]

On the origin of the word "otaku":
The word otaku was adapted from science fiction conventions in the 70's, in which fans referred to one another by the honorific "o-taku"(you). After seeing use within the anime and manga fan subculture, it began entering common usage, referring to "maniacs" who are deeply invested into a hobby, but in the West its usage to refer to one another within the anime/manga fandom was retained.

The word's etymology and change in usage is imperative to the development of the anime/manga fan identity, and in turn, to the characterization of the A@D characters, who are each into different fields. The anime/manga subculture characters are Page, who is a generic anime/manga otaku, and Daruma, who is into cosplay. Box, Taiko and Izm are each into professional fields, though without official training or education. Akira found herself working in a maid cafe and loves Akihabara, but I wouldn't necessarily call her otaku. The show is laced with other appearances of otaku content and mediums, such as Gundam and 2channel, though they aren't given direct manifestations as far as I can tell. Ultimately, the respect among distant fans meeting one another face to face of decades past has remained.

This is to show the importance a single word carries for this subculture. In order not to give up its history, it must not be merely translated into "geek" or "maniac".

[Anonymous No.]

>>20601600
>it must not be merely translated into "geek" or "maniac".
When did Japan start and stop using the term "maniac" anyway?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20601558
No you clearly are. The mere fact that you think the only overlaps are within military, game and anime otaku is proof of that. No one here even discussed the culture's roots and connection to the development of modern literature in Japan.

You're just as retarded as the people calling themselves otakus just because they're into anime. Fucking disgusting. Go and stay go.

>>20601666
They haven't.

>>20601600
>This is to show the importance a single word carries for this subculture. In order not to give up its history, it must not be merely translated into "geek" or "maniac".

If you're referring to overseas usage, as a linguist I'm telling you that's the wrong hill to die on. There's no helping that. Besides that's more accurate than the even more common (and dumb) "likes manga and anime" meaning.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20602417
I guess "translate" wasn't a good word for it, then. I meant that we here, otaku-culture-otaku, are to look at "otaku" beyond simply "geek" or "maniac". For external usage like in books or documentaries the English words or any other equivalent translation would be much better than sticking to the Japanese word.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20601666
>>20602417
>>20601600
I think (subject specific)-geek or maniac isn't that bad of a translation. Once again it isolates the
>you're a person who is passionately interested in the topic at hand, rather than just the appearance or social utility of the topic
Obviously we're talking about certain realms, but I think it doesn't work too badly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20590263
Im big fan of most of NHK world stuff except the political stuff that leans heavily into globalism fandom. Their stuff like 72 hours and hometown stories is top notch. But I feel its not welcomed on jp at all and gets reported most the time
>>20595273
there was some controversial statement from him about japanese but dont really know the details

[Anonymous No.]

>>20599394
I've seen this process referred to as the "gentrification" of geek/otaku hobbies, and I find that the metaphor is very suitable. It's often the same people buying funko pops for Instagram that are also moving into working class neighbourhoods and driving up the rent while turning every diner and corner store into a kombucha quinoa juice bistro

[Anonymous No.]

>>20604559
>except the political stuff that leans heavily into globalism fandom
It's more normal when understood within Japan's domestic political context. Globalist advocacy in Japan is in large part a product of its longstanding pacifist movement, and the pacifists are politically stronger in Japan than elsewhere in the developed world, in part due to the legacy of WWII and in part because much of the pacifist movement is religious (buddhist, specifically).

Of course, I'm not agreeing (or disagreeing!) with the actual content of those mini-docs but I'm just pointing out that it comes off as preachy to our western ears, since it's mostly a byproduct of decades of entrenched domestic politics, rather than a foreign agenda imposed on the Japanese. I personally just skip over it.

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605276
>pacifist movement is religious (buddhist, specifically).
>Of course, I'm not agreeing (or disagreeing!) with the actual content of those mini-docs but I'm just pointing out that it comes off as preachy to our western ears, since it's mostly a byproduct of decades of entrenched domestic politics, rather than a foreign agenda imposed on the Japanese. I personally just skip over it.

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605283

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605209
To

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605276

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605305

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605318

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605318
Fuck Joha

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605339
So I meant fuck Johannesburg, South Africa!

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605276

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605276
>>20605283

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605362

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605276>>20604559

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605276
>>20603558
>>20602579

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605362
>>20605276

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605276
>>20604559
>>20601600
>>20600890
>>20599394
>>20599324
To fucking nigger's ass shits

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605276
>>20603558
>>20604559

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605415
>>20605294
>>20605276

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605425
>>20605276
>>20605209
Www, look at her tounge!

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605276
Toronto Onta

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605276
>>20602417
>>20601600

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605441
Tjjtjtjtjtjtjtjtjtjtjtjt

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605449

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605455
>>20605276

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605276
>>20602579
>>20605351

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605475

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605485
>>20605276
>>20605209

[Anonymous Güddle's Geoff Tong'(...) No.]

>>20605276
>>20604559
>>20603558
>>20602579
>>20602417
>>20601666
>>20601600

[Anonymous No.]

>>20521414
Densha otoko and the slew of "good looking" normies coming out as otaku and relative mainstream acceptance changed all that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20605544
Was densha otoko really the start of it all?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20605654
Well, it could've been a little bit more than it was before for more,

[Anonymous No.]

>>20605654
Well, it could've been a little bit more than it was for before more,

[Anonymous No.]

>>20605276
Will it change since japan is building/modifiying their air carrier?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20609944
Not really? Japan's stick depends upon global interplay, and despite what the LDP hardliners say (or what their opponents fear) it'll remain that way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20609944
I imagine resistance to remilitarization will fade - the pacifist movement's base has always been baby boomers, and as they die off younger generations who grew up with North Korean rockets flying over Hokkaido will be less averse to a more (defensively) assertive Japan. Religious movements like the Soka Gakkai will probably keep a leash on the nationalists in the LDP, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20614059
I don't think that the Japanese are actually going to return to an imperialist foreign policy, or even one that's openly aggressive in its long-running disputes with its neighbours. This isn't the 1930s, and even the most harebrained nationalist knows that war with China would be a bloodbath.

What you are more likely to see is the Japanese much more accepting of a strong military built purely for defense of Japan's borders. The problem is in where those borders lie, and pacifists fear slipping into a hot conflict with Russian, China or Korea over disputed islands

[Anonymous No.]

>>20605276
really sad that it will end japan as we know it. not immediately but maybe in our lifetime

[Anonymous No.]

I guess this thread is going down the rabbit hole just like the other one.

Good job, retards.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20445051
I started watching Otaku no Video because of your post. Pretty interesting, so thanks for the indirect reccomendation.

Was it just ritual for nerdy girls to cosplay as Lum back then or what? I remember seeing a video of a Shouwa era Comiket and there were cute nerdy girls cosplaying and very obviously embarassed because of the skimpy outfit. Really cute.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20587509
Duh, just look at the thumbnails, exact same as any other dumb lazy clickbait top 10 video or whatever other garbage that some people actually willingly choose to numb their brains with.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20617273
other one?

[Anonymous No.]

I return having watched episodes 6 and 7.
Let's begin with 6.

This episode feels to me like it's based on the bad public image of otaku in documentation for the duration of the 20 years leading up to Akihabara @Deep. Numerous criminal incidents, of them notorious are ones of kidnapping, rape and murder of young girls, lead to a growing suspicion and eventual fear of otaku activity, shutting off akiba culture from the rest of Japan during the late 80's and early 90's. Though the episode ends with a non-otaku being the culprit, it admits that perversion and malice exists within the otaku community, surfacing online to dangerous levels. During the airing of Akihabara@Deep, it was more understood that the background for these incidents is not the deep investment into hobbies, but an existing mental condition. An incident in recent years is the stabbing of singer Mayu Tomiya, who was attacked by a fan whose present to her was returned. I wonder if the production of Akihabara@Deep consciously avoided the recreation of rape, kidnap and murder incidents following backlash from the cult suicide episode.

There is not much for me to tell about the seventh episode. It is a common trope wearing otaku hues, and there's otherwise not a particular story to tell about it. Pretty funny, though.

>>20617353
Glad you liked it! I actually mail ordered a copy of it. Truly remarkable. Being aware that the interviewees are not real people doesn't put me at ease, however.
Urusei Yatsura was immensely popular, so it received a lot of attention in the various doujin fields, including cosplay. Though skimpy outfits existed before, none were as much as Lum's outfit. At the time, it probably felt more like gravure photography than cosplay.
I'd like you to look for the video, if you can, and link it here, or otherwise point to where it can be watched. I wish to see more of otaku during the Showa era.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20622992
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqtzepfEt-I

Here's the video. There are two girls cosplaying as Lum, one at 8:50 and another at 1:30. Everything seems so natural.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20617353
>here were cute nerdy girls cosplaying and very obviously embarassed because of the skimpy outfit.
>>20622992
>At the time, it probably felt more like gravure photography than cosplay.
Meanwhile, merely days ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOJgjjsVwCw

>>20624638
>>20622992
>Though skimpy outfits existed before, none were as much as Lum's outfit
Dirty Pair (1:43) is about as skimpy, and I saw a Genmu Senki Leda cosplay at 1:53 than cannot have possibly been any better if she did it properly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20617353
>there were cute nerdy girls cosplaying and very obviously embarassed because of the skimpy outfit.
>>20622992
>At the time, it probably felt more like gravure photography than cosplay.
Meanwhile, merely days ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOJgjjsVwCw

>>20624638
>>20622992
>Though skimpy outfits existed before, none were as much as Lum's outfit
Dirty Pair (1:43) is about as skimpy, and I saw a Genmu Senki Leda cosplay at 1:53 that cannot have possibly been any better if she did it properly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20544329
How are you doing now, anon?

[Anonymous No.]

bump

[Anonymous No.]

>>20622205
yeah

[Anonymous No.]

>>20551971
>Stuff that was intended to be cute had a like really sparkly, candy-like look
This has at least persisted in magical girl media and ultra short episode anime series that are the contemporary equivalent of Di Gi Charat.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20633809
What series are there that aren't 100% otaku oriented besides Pretty Cure nowadays?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20573608
>because the idea of "opposites attract" is more of a storytelling trope than a reality
A true and underappreciated observation. "Opposites attract" is one of the most misleading pieces of conventional wisdom. "Opposites attract" only applies in some specific cases, like how wannabe cultists tend to flock to a person cut out to be a cult leader.
>A great case of this in otakuism is VN fans.
Do VN fans have a reputation for being jackasses? That's a surprise, if you're talking about the West.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20636884
Other series for children, like Pokemon. Very popular movies by Miyazaki or Shinkai like Your Name. Maybe even old-school stuff like Lupin since they are probably trying to appeal to new fans and older people who grew up watching them. I'm not sure about that last one, though. Those come to mind, but I'm sure there are others.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20637157
Please read better.
>>20633809
>This has at least persisted in magical girl media
>>20636884
>What series are there that aren't 100% otaku oriented besides Pretty Cure
I'm referring to mahou shoujo series in particular.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20637189
I feel like I should point out the
>nowadays
again too, in case that part is missed this time.

[Anonymous No.]

I still can't find the @DEEP film. As far as I can see, it's not being seeded anymore. Can that one anon who has it throw it up somewhere? Also, I'm ordering the manga and LN sometime this week, so I'll try to have some posts about the differences between all the adaptations sometime soon.

>>20637016
You're right, VNs probably aren't a good example. When I was writing that, I was specifically thinking about the effects of the popularity of Nekopara, Dream Daddy (and its ilk), and Doki Doki Literature Club on spaces for discussion of VNs, but as someone who's knowledge of VNs stops at 2007, I don't have enough authority to make a claim like that.

>>20595441
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you're insinuating that it's only extremely dedicated fans of "nerdy" hobbies that are seen as weird, when in fact, it's all extremely dedicated fans. The only difference between them is the level of social acceptance that the hobby had in the first place. People who are extremely into baseball or Justin Bieber aren't seen as social pariah like someone who's extremely into collecting doujins of 80s anime characters, but that's because anime isn't as socially accepted as baseball or Justin Bieber. Those guys are still seen as weirdos and losers to the general public. You're not "allowed" to be an otaku of anything, and I think it's arguable if any society has ever been okay with otaku. Also, I don't really think tht the idea of chasing social capital is that common within western otaku culture outside of cosplayers. Personally, I think the bigger problem with normalfriends in "nerdy" hobbies is more the general lack of respect they have for their hobbies. I don't dislike the fujos squeeing about their husbandos or even the people arguing about whether Naruto or Goku would win in a fight anywhere near as much as the plethora of comments showing ironic disdain for anime and anime fans. The whole "anime is trash and so am I" bit can be found in all manner of "normalfriendly spaces" like anime cons, clubs, and social media platforms. The idea of
> LEL SO FUNNAY JAPAN WEIRD
and
> only gross weeaboos like jap shit
is so ingrained into the minds of normalfriends that even the ones that "like" otaku media feel so socially guilty about it that they have to paint everything with six layers of ironic disdain and self-awareness of how "cringey" it is to make up for it. Then that people attract the types of people who only care about memes and irony, and then from there it just all goes downhill. So in the end, we do definitely both agree that sincerity is the big issue at hand.

>>20595459
Space Dandy did pretty well when it was airing, but it aired in Winter 2014, which was a super otaku centric season. Pretty much the only people that remember shows from that season were people who were really getting into anime at that time (which really wasn't that many people honestly) or people who had a show/shows that they really liked at that time.

>>20462341
I have to wonder what killed the idea of building a strong brand on your platform of choice among media creators. I remember being really into the whole "anituber" thing a few years before it became the "anituber" thing, and every YouTube advice video I watched talked about having a strong recognizable brand.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449066
>one of the reasons that makes otaku cultures different now is that failed chad/stacey-wannabe normalfags who fail at fishing for fame/worship in normalfags world turn to otaku hobbies because otaku hobbies is pretty mainstream now
>>20500153
>Before, it was entitled otaku x plebs, now is chads x scattered otaku
Cut the bullshit. There are those kind of people for sure, but take off the /r9k/ist cynical goggles off for a moment and understand that there are others out there who are, by and large, normal people who have the same interests as you. I/m not talking about the ironic weebs. I'm talking about everyday people who might have one or two interests that fall into the otaku realm, but aren't so obsessed or debilitated by it to consider themselves otakus. They simply have the interest in perhaps, mecha, on the side without letting that one interest consume their lives and letting it become their identity and personality. At the end of the day you're just a consumer taking in entertainment and products made by others for enjoyment. These goods are available to anyone and everyone, but because you and your band of misfits came along to enjoy it on an even higher level, doesn't make you any better than the ironic ones you talk bad about. No matter how annoying and fake they are.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20596039
To some extent everyone wants attention. Very few artists are content with nobody seeing their work. Even those who despise the general public and its taste at least want criticism and recognition from fellow artists. Attention whoring is the same thing without the work. To be more precise, there is a spectrum that runs from making something for yourself alone through making and sharing it to pure attention whoring.

The reason people with other interests look down upon activities closer to pure attention whoring is that it is subhuman, literally. It is a primate behavior older than Homo sapiens sapiens. Some say that all artistic types of activity came from it. It seems plausible. Regardless, the good thing is that it means you need to attach a somewhat worthwhile product to your self-promotion or you will get this reaction in full force. It helps keep talentless attention whores somewhat removed from talented artists.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20597621
>I don't actually get mad at these people for effectively gentrifying these interests;
>Of course, I don't get mad at them because there's little danger of them going after my degenerate H dojinshi.
You would think so, but I've noticed an apparent escalation in how degenerate the interests they keep gentrifying are. For example, what is going with ironic lolicons?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20638613
>For example, what is going with ironic lolicons?
Loli is not degenerate and those lolicons are just being "ironic" as a facade.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20595441
>>20597621
>>20599324
>>20599394
If you go by >>20454558, otaku and what you call "core geeks", "primaries", etc. are the "fanatics" and "fauxtaku", "ironic weebs", "secondaries", etc. are the "mops" and the "sociopaths".

[Anonymous No.]

>>20638213
Could you be clearer?

>>20638613
Haven't really seen an "ironic lolicon" in real life ever, all the ones I know tend to keep their tastes to themselves.
If you're refering to some e-celeb or some attention whore, they probably aren't a lolicon at all for starters.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20637630
> People who are extremely into baseball or Justin Bieber aren't seen as social pariah like someone who's extremely into collecting doujins of 80s anime characters, but that's because anime isn't as socially accepted as baseball or Justin Bieber. Those guys are still seen as weirdos and losers to the general public.
I don't know about Justin Bieber, but Baseball and Football otaku are really just your typical sports megafans. You know, the ones that paint their skin the color of their teams and host superbowl parties, etc. They are not portrayed in any sort of negative light judging by all the superbowl advertisements I see every year, plus what my coworkers always talk about during those seasons. So there are some hobbies that are tolerated much more than others.

>>20637189
>Please read better.
Your post did not specify that you wanted only magical girl examples. I understand what you mean now, but it really wasn't clear.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20640453
I think those are simply easier to be sincere about because mainstream media gives (or gave) them some value socially.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20641361
More like they have value because of the inane advertising potential loaded behind them. Baseball and American Football are All-American pastimes instead of hobbies with their own otaku because of advertising pressure. Televised casting dictates the first and second levels of engagement for its audience and participants, and our cross interest bretheren get shoved to the wayside instead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20637630
>I still can't find the @DEEP film. As far as I can see, it's not being seeded anymore. Can that one anon who has it throw it up somewhere?
Here you go, hopefully it's alright to post magnets on this board
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:1013e16e3f7b9a0be8b21e7023a602cc35a95088&dn=Akihabara%40Deep&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.dler.org%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fretracker.lanta-net.ru%3A2710%2Fannounce&tr=http%3A%2F%2Ftorrent.nwps.ws%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fretracker.hotplug.ru%3A2710%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.port443.xyz%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.filemail.com%3A6969%2Fannounce

[Anonymous No.]

>>20646491
Thanks anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20638855
>"fanatics" and "fauxtaku", "ironic weebs", "secondaries",
I hate the whole "lol I'm weeaboo trash because I watched anime once xDDDDD" shit. It feels almost really mean.
>yeah I'm going to enjoy that but fuck anyone who enjoys it unironically is a loser
I guess this happened to a lot of nerd pastimes. But somehow it seems so much more pronounced in the context of otaku hobbies. That could just be my perspective though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20651586
>It feels almost really mean.
Rightly so, since the underlying message is "I am trash because I watched anime once, therefore more dedicated otaku are worse than I." I've noticed that "I am bad for liking this, but they are worse" is a status grab strategy. People who use it think society looks down on their interests, but lack the pride and the confidence to just say "I am pretty damn good, so what I like can't be bad."

[Anonymous No.]

ITT: Westerners who have never visited Japan completely forget about the influence of SEA/Chinese tourism on Japanese culture.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20653812
I think you missed the point.

[Anonymous No.]

bump

[Anonymous No.]

>>20653812
Do tell

[Anonymous No.]

>>20651772
>lack the pride and the confidence to just say "I am pretty damn good, so what I like can't be bad."
I'm trying to imagine a lolicon type saying this and laughing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20653812
from what I read chink tourists are turning japan into shithole slowly but surely. and SEA/CH are replacing japs on population level

[Anonymous No.]

>>20666006
I've already run into something along those lines when a karate instructor was extolling the values of nekopara.
>>20669848
No they aren't. God, I hope this yamato genocide drivel doesn't jump ship to the western conciousness. That ass backwards unfounded mindset is the reason why the brazillians are getting shafted so hard, among other things.

Chink tourists are a huge problem (I mean where are they not?) but since the boom has been cooinciding with 2020 prep, I'm sure the appropriate countermeasures will kick in within the next two years. Kyoto has already seen (marginal) improvement from incorperating planned changes from tokyo in the past year, so I'm remaining optimistic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20670376
>God, I hope this yamato genocide drivel doesn't jump ship to the western conciousness.
"Foreigners are replacing us" has been a rallying cry of white supremacists for years, so its too late. I just hope that stupid ideology remains fringe. Unless you meant that you hope the Japanese don't see westerners in the same way as they might the Chinese?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20671103

[Anonymous No.]

>>20670376
lol its the westerners expat saying those things they are jaded by japan approach of not accepting them even if they are in japan 10+ years and cheer for how they can barely japs in cities

[Anonymous No.]

Wow this thread is still up, I'm impressed

>>20584613
By stars/communities, I mean most locally famous cover bands/cover dance groups/cosplayers/communities. Some are decent of course but many of them are in it for the wrong reasons

I'm from Indonesia. If you're an Indonesian and want to differentiate those two kind of
>"generic-con type weeb stars/communities" and "weeb stars/communities who actually create stuffs/have the doujin spirit"
Just compare the majority attendees/booth participants of Comifuro and the majority attendees/booth participants of other weeb cons (especially non super niche cons). Comifuro is in my opinion, the only cons in Indonesia closest to Japan in regards to its fandom spirit. Dunno what's the equivalent of that in burgerland though

[Anonymous No.]

>>20670376
>when a karate instructor was extolling the values of nekopara
What did your karate instructor like about Nekopara?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20671103
I meant more not wanting the two to merge. I've already seen too much nettouyoku tripe directly reference western corruptions of existing japanese issues, though its hard to explain without digging out examples. The only thing worse than playing internet telephone is crossing language barrier several times along the way.
>>20674857
Not my instructor, just some bloke I talked to years ago. I don't remember what he liked about it aside from 'legal loli' and chocolat, but he was unabashadly proud of his taste and the game by proxy. As misguided as it was, it gave me the confidence to be just as forward with my far less contreversial all encompassing love for floof.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20675406
I have this strange impression, certainly distorted by the internet game of telephone, that Japan is more anti-Korea than it is anti-China but mainland China is more anti-Japan than Korea is.

That karate instructor sounds all right. It isn't wise to profess your love for "legal loli" characters, but I'd rather talk to someone who does that than to a person who has to put up 10 disclaimers before they say something nice about any otaku media with anything remotely perverted.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20678274
Vocally, japan is vehemently anti-korean still, but the sentiment acts in function more like an electrolytic gradient depending on one's adversity to %minority% that they *really* have a manufactured gripe about. Part of the reason why I mentioned the brazillians earlier: its one of those groups nobody fucking sees and few people can even identify on sight (they're even actively leaving the country as shortsighted legislation and urban migration fuck over whatever societal cohesion they previously enjoyed), yet just keeps cropping up when you drink the koolaid just to see colour of stick is really up their ass. Completely anecdotal conclusion I know, but its the best I can figure atm.

Oh yeah once you start talking to the middle/upper management of multinationals you find more direct racists, since they occasionally find solace in their american counterparts. Looking squarely at you Nissan. As much as I complain about it though, it pales in comparison to both America and my home country, so I'll take it any day.

I have to agree with you about karate instructor, though the optimism is probably coloured more by /ourguy/ than I'd like to admit. After all, Thad and thousands of other people technically fit that qualifier, and we know how well that turned out.

[Anonymous No.]

Why do extremely niche cons thrive only in Japan? look at this, there is even one for Madoka x Homura:
http://www.sdf-event.jp/
I really want to attend the Puyo and K-ON ones.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20681182
Easier to gather lots of fans of something in one place.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20674147
As a Canuck, I can't speak for all of burgerland.
But in general, there's a bit more of an issue here. Just getting a con organized, finding the funds for things, managing the many individualist demands of the attendees and volunteers, is an enormous challenge. There's also the siren call of corporate money that undermines the doujin spirit as we might call it.
Cons here tend to have a few areas universal to them all, a cosplay hall/green, a dealers hall, and an "artists alley". The only thing really doujin apart from a few niche things in the dealers hall would be the artists alley, which tends to be prints and small goods of characters rather than doujin comics, LN's or games (and those tend to be originals when they do pop up). This is a pretty common theme across North America.
We have some really talented artists at these conventions, but they seem uncomfortable producing actual stories with their work. Additionally, you don't get "circles" as often here as you would in Japan and parts of Asia. It tends to be individual artists working alone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20681182
Public transit, narrow nation, big metro areas.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20685570
Geography is also a big challenge. I live on the east coast and it's going to be very difficult to justify spending $600 minimum for airfare and accommodations alone to go to a con in Toronto.

Remember that year where the big Toronto con shared a convention centre with the federal Conservative party? Politicians would sometimes come over to get pictures with the cosplayers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20685768
lol really? I'm from Murica, but if a conservative politician came up to a cosplayer here, it'd be to call them a pedophile or evil or some other such thing. They just wanted pictures?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20685892

[Anonymous No.]

>>20685892
It's a popular convention
https://twitter.com/anime_north/status/1085604079479476225

[Anonymous No.]

>>20686626
>>20686746
That's pretty great. Maybe one day I'll try to attend.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20685570
>Cons here tend to have a few areas universal to them all, a cosplay hall/green, a dealers hall, and an "artists alley".
Actually 99% of cons here are like you mentioned above too, but what's really troubling is the "artist alley" ones consist of 90% bootleg stuffs (prints or small good of characters stolen from official art/famous artists/semi pro tier illustrations and the likes) and 10% original shit (if that even exists)

Say if you're a good artist and you try to sell non bootlegged prints/small goods of characters/accessories or whatever fanart in "generic cons", you don't face competition against other producers, you face competition against high quality bootlegged stuffs that people sell, even if your quality itself is actually not that bad. But that kind of con format is what sells cause people don't care where the source of their stuffs is, they just want high quality stuffs for their money and because majority of weeb here is ignorant enough to consider the word "fan illustrations/doujin" in their web browser making this kind of con format does well. Also the majority demographic for this hobby is often a big loser in life, they don't care that "generic con stars" consist of local stars/communities/fandom that only do the subcultures because of the money/fame at the committees request (not all of them are like that of course, but many of them are like that) to sell 3D version of anime purity waifubait/dance/performance or whatever

What if your purpose is only to get exposure at "generic cons" as an artist? More power to you but the cost of getting that "exposure" from "generic cons" booths will often be high enough (especially if you do it more than once or twice) to make you feel like shit

That's why the Comifuro ones I mentioned before is great, it's a mix of some universal areas like in generic cons with a mix of "corporatized weeb" performers and "doujinka type weeb" performers combined with a big "artist alley" where people sell non-bootlegged comics, LNs, games, prints, small goods of characters, accessories etc.

If even just half of the "artist alley" aren't bootlegged stuffs and half of the "star performers" aren't corporatized weeb performers, I'm sure that's more than enough to spark a lot of people's enthusiasm to regularly visit cons again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20688749
I just hope this kind of shit won't start to spread in other countries, this is a surprising new form of excessively corporatized weeb culture

[Anonymous No.]

What do Japanese that have participated in western conventions think of them? Performers, artists, the people who would be on the guest side instead of the visitor side I mean. Although, I am kind of interested if any random japanese otaku that happened to be around one just visited a western con and what their opinions were.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20544372
Nice Di Gi Charat cosplay there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20685570
>but they seem uncomfortable producing actual stories with their work
This is a thing that I've also noticed. In the West stories seem to be... I don't know, taken more seriously?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20691786
More like, every two-bit artist thinks they're penning their magnum opus OC donut steel webcomic. It's part of the whole "individualistic" thing in the west. Producing fan art is somehow lesser than producing something original, even if your original thing is shitty.

[Anonymous No.]

Good thread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20692020
It was the best of threads.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20688784
Producing bootlegged stuff is way cheaper in SEA than NA, so don't worry about it spreading here. We may have Chinese import bootleg figs at our cons, but at least they're ripping off people in the artists alley.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20691786
I think >>20691958 has a point. I also think the individualist psychology of the west means less people collaborate in circles on a single work. So people don't make Art+Writing+Game etc etc. Since that requires multiple people working together.
I think we also just have a puritanical insecurity thing going on, where producing lewd content isn't seen as okay. Many JP doujin artists who produce serious stuff even got their start doing porn. But outside of people who already do deviant shit (furries, I'm looking at you), North American culture doesn't really look well upon loosing your fetishes upon the community.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20688784
Most cons in NA are too grassroots (and too small) for any sort of large scale corporatization to take place. I'm not even sure what "corporatized weeb performers" means in the context of anime conventions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20685768
>Toronto con shared a convention centre with the federal Conservative party?
The fucking "Rebel Media" retards got all up in my face.
I got interviewed by Faith Goldy (wearing a Make Canada Great Again hat) asking/telling me
>are you part of the Anime Right?
>what's a waifu?
>lets be honest the Japanese are still fighting the war by corrupting our youth through anime
>join the anime right and MAGA!
I wanted to slap the dumb smile off her plastic face.