/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>th13.5:_Mima_vs_Hijiri

!!!!

It's saturday evening. Get the streams going on already, damnit!

>>9982967

twitch.tv/adamar09

Let's do this thing. MoF hard again, and no doubt others.

>>9983056
For some odd reason, Twitch is being laggy as HELL

Justin.tv/mozea
Doing some PCB extra stage attempts again

MiiiiMMMMMMAaaaaaaaaa

So, what #pofv tourneyGODs are going to be playing 13.5 when it comes out? I'm looking forward to playable Orin, or Miko if Orin isn't available.

>>9983773
You should try from the Hiso thread. We're playing STG's over here.

Streaming: http://www.twitch.tv/rizth

Why is ReimuC such a shitty shot type?

>>9984282
ReimuC's in MoF and SA are great. I have no idea of SoEW, though.

>>9984282
Don't diss, ReimuC with no focus or shooting is the best shot type if you like to have fun.

>>9984628
You have a skewed notion of fun.

>>9984643
Going really fast all over the place and trying to survive is a nice change of pace from getting angry at failed score-run after failed score-run.

>>9981863
>Mima_vs_Hijiri
You lost me

I thought it was a hyperbole when people said TD is pathetically easy. That was on my fourth attempt - I got to Miko on my first attempt (I thought for a moment I could do it), wasted the second fucking around with Youmu and the third got interrupted when the game crashed after Yuyuko.

>>9986047
It gets harder on the higher difficulties.

Goddamnit. At least I feel like I'm progressing. Shou and Byakuren don't feel that difficult to me anymore.

>>9987026
It gets harder on the harder difficulties? Shocking.

>>9987026
How so? I assume you have played TD enough to make such a broad statement.

>>9987026
Things get harder on harder difficulties? I-Impossible! Absolute blasphemy!

And Ran beaten. My second extra boss after Mokou. Lost one life on Chen, two on Charming Siege then one on her last two cards.
Also, after Murasa's last card, Princess Tenko felt kinda cheap.

>>9987026
Lunatic on TD is comparable to Hard on a lot of the other games.

I always found TD to be one of the harder ones from lack of resources.

>>9987967
TD lacks in resources if you don't trance and bomb at the right spots.

It recently occurred to me this might be phallic symbolism.

I guess it makes sense why they're called the apostles of the seed.

>>9981922
do want!

>>9983056

IN extra practice and whatnot.

Exxelent, it's been too long, you have to stream tonight.

What bullshit.
I just played IN after about a month of not playing any Touhou at all, and I did better than I've ever done before. I got to stage 4 with only two deathbombs during Keine, but no actual deaths (a major first for me), and made it to stage five (also a first), albeit, I had no lives or bombs left, so I died hard at Tewi.

That run was filled with moments where I said out loud "holy shit, that didn't hit me?"

http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=25004

Any criticism, other than practicing stage four more? I already know that Marisa fucks up my shit. I think it's because of all the pretty colors.

>>9989817
>died hard at tewi

I don't even want to watch

>>9989817
>dying to Tewi
>ever

Wow, stay free scrub.

>>9989911
>>9989956

no bullying in /jp/ please

>>9989817
>died at Tewi

How...?

Boooo.

I haven't played Touhou in a while and was hoping a new game would revitalise my interest in the series.

Then it turns out to be one of those fighter games I've never been able to play for shit.

I'll see you fuckers when Touhou 14 comes out then I guess.

>>9989967
by running into bullets

obviously

>>9989977
See you in Gensokyo.

>>9989911
>>9989956
>>9989967
Having never, ever seen her bullet patterns before might possibly have been a contributing factor.
Just maybe.
I didn't get any chances to learn it, since I had no lives, no bombs left after Marisa.

>>9990027
>I had no lives, no bombs left after Marisa

Well then it's your own fault for playing so horribly.
Did you at least use default lives?

>>9989817
Practice stage four more and watch replays.

Streaming in a minute: twitch.tv/rizth

I think that I am feeling better than yesterday.
>>9989817
You can focus at the POC to collect items below full power. Also, you should totally focus more. Are you trying to score?

For Wiggle's nonspells, you should try to shoot the familiars by unfocusing. For her first spell, keep in mind that the blue bullets are aimed. They are best dealt with by streaming. Your stages 2 & 3 were good. I think that you panicked on stage 4. I would watch a few replays for that. IN has a hard stages 4 & 6. Tewi's attack is oriented in such a way that it's best to be on the left side of the screen to dodge it.

>>9989817
>I said out loud "holy shit, that didn't hit me?"

I hate dweebs like you

>>9990282
>dweebs
please go back to middle school and bully the kids there ``please''

>>9990289

Go cry more about clip deaths, poindexter

>>9990398
You seem like underage. Let me guess, #pofv/MotK hotshot? Stay bad and outclassed, kid.

>>9990238
>You can focus at the POC to collect items below full power.
Fucking hell. I've heard this before, too.

That was also the first time I captured Wriggle's... Wriggle's... that special final spellcard that you get for reaching the Time threshold, and the first time I ever even saw Keine's, which was surprisingly easy. I honestly did way, way better than I usually do on that run.

I usually do much better about grazing during Wriggle's regular section, too, though. I had forgotten a lot of my patterns.

Up and running in five minutes, returning to my roots with some PCB hard.

twitch.tv/exxelent

Help guys. I'm just getting into Touhou and I can't beat this boss. What do I do?

>>9991652
Play a good game.

>>9991658
But it is a good game.

>>9991658
But I'm enjoying it.

>>9991658
That game is better than any of your windows Touhou, dude.

>>9991658
Why is Sephiroth wearing a dress?

>>9991732
This was before he lost five of his wings in a tragic boating accident. He was even more flamboyant then.

>>9991601
Some random newfag showed up searching for Rock Band streams, who doesn't know shit about anything or what Touhou even is and these idiots link him to the fucking board and start explaining everything instead of telling him to fuck off.
Holy fuck what happened to you /jp/?
You used to be so hostile towards newfag scum and now this?
Don't we have enough secondaries as it is?

>>9991874
>these idiots
Start dropping names instead to get the message across, anon.

>>9991652
Hardest 2hu game.
Although a nice game overall the gameplay on this one is too much bullshit. I couldn't 1cc it on easy before, so I moved on to 2 and so on. Now I can 1cc EoSD and some others on lunatic, but still I can't easy 1cc it. ;_;

>>9991874
I highly doubt most of the people in that stream are even from /jp/.

Probably all IRC tourneyfags.

>>9991874
Being unreasonably aggressive isn't a good thing.

>>9991874
That's what you should expect when Facebook logins, streams and words like "tourneyfag" become normative.

>>9991874
>newfag
You're worse than him.

>>9992016
>>9992010
I thought appending the word "fag" to the end of any noun or adjective to describe a person was perfectly standard practice.

>>9991968
Better he/she gets into the series through watching the games rather than the fanon.

>>9992021
Yeah, that's one of my favorite meemees, too. What's his problem?

>>9992085
>Yeah, that's one of my favorite memes.
Please don't lie. It's very rude.

>>9991874
I think that's because most people discussing STGs or Touhou games in this thread don't really care about /jp/ itself and only want a place to discuss STGs and Touhou games anonymously. Normally, they (at least all of the non-casuals) are from some IRCs, pooshlmer or MotK. There was even that time where these threads were moved to /vg/ for a short time in hopes of getting better players. People play this game for themselves, not for /jp/, so they're willing to help and invite anyone they want to this place.

Oh no, I stopped playing for two days, and now I can't beat any Stage 1 Lunatic without dying or bombing.

I just love being a worthless piece of garbage with no talent whatsoever. I've heard the first three notes of, "The Dark Blowhole" for about three hours now.

>>9992217
Yamame's opener is an auto-bomb if she moves down. I use one bomb almost every time if the bomb of the shottype I'm using is strong enough to kill it. Just bomb it.

My reward for beating hard mode
time to fap

>>9992446
ZUN should start doing that again

>>9992446
What's the picture when you get a lunatic clear?

>>9992472
Yeah, It's a very nice reward.

Is anyone streaming? Do mind if I stream?

>>9992535
Just in time, go ahead.

>>9992535
Go for it

>>9991874
I like to be friendly.
>>9992010
It was always like this. We are not a big community, so it's normal that we are going to have a hard time staying anonymous. It's very easy for us to recognize each other, even if we post as Anonymous
>>9992132
If we didn't care about /jp/, then we would find somewhere else to talk. There's no place on the Internet quite like /jp/. I don't think that external sites are very important to us. We won't specifically go out to advertise ourselves, but we won't hide it either. Most of us knew that moving to /vg/ would be a disaster, so these threads were still around but with slightly less traffic. We have these threads so that we can help each other. We have a community here which is somewhat separated from the rest of the board.
>>9992217
Two days isn't a lot. It happens to everyone.
>>9992535
Link for those that are confused: http://www.livestream.com/notapirate

>>9992236
This is what killed me the most, actually. A few shit deaths by Kisume as well, one even after she was long dead, and the bullets were gone. They feel like they have thousands of active frames, even after they disappear. But those deaths were mainly because of me rage-PoCing.

>>9992691
Yeah, I suppose I was over-reacting just a bit. Should have grinded my execution back up with some practice mode before plunging straight into SA Lunatic.

>>9992729
I know that feeling. I still spend hours being stuck on the first few stages sometimes. It's just part of the game.

>>9992446
And if you beat it with Marisa...

And PCB done, with Marisa A. My 2nd 1cc on Hard after IN.
As always, when I saw I was starting stage 5 with 9 lives, I panicked, played like shit and lost 5 lives and threw I don't know how many bombs against Youmu; even though stage 4 is my main problem. How I hate that stage, it's way too long and annoying.
Well, at least I ended on a good note, I managed to capture reflowering 50% for the first time.

>>9992446
What game is this!

>>9992911
Sherlock Holmes Marisa is better.

Are there any drugs I can take to get better at Touhou?

>>9993501
Alcohol and tea work wonders for me.

>>9993501
Speed.

>>9983626
Just done one, died at the card she traps you in some laser circle and you have to wait for timeout.

Also, don't you just HATE charming siege? I have to bomb twice there no matter what...

>>9993530
Charmingshit.jpg

>>9992492
She's wearing one of those little white dress things. I don't know what they're called.

>>9992446
>>9992911
Spoiler please if you must post the ending pictures.

>>9993269
Lotus Land Story.

>>9992691
>It was always like this.
You've been here since the beginning? Nice.

Also, I doubt people would have a hard time staying anonymous if they so wished. You should try it sometimes.

>>9993752
>You've been here since the beginning? Nice.
He hasn't. A little over year at most. He likes to talk like he has though, since big ego and whatnot.

I have a challenge for you, /jp/.

Gain as much score from SA easy stage 4 as you can. You have 24 hours.

Meant to try TD hard. Even if it's supposedly easier than other games hard is still too much for me. So I tried MoF instead.

Beating Kanako took forever. Where did I do wrong? http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=25018

>>9994000
Overly simplistic playing by an overly simplistic person.

Someone, please stream!

>>9992691
The /vg/ thread's better for general STG chat, /jp/ is just 2hu now.

>>9994433
>>9983056

Let's try this challenge. Need to unlock the stage first, though.

>>9994108

I got 29M. Dropped the second last spellcard though, how shameful.

what do people generally play those on? I've always selected lunatic but I have friends who literally cannot get past the first stage on easy/normal. is it really that hard for some people?

>>9994709
Different people, different talents, different skill levels, different skill caps. It all depends on the individual. Isn't reality dull?

>>9994722
unjust

>>9991652
Name/download link?

>>9994709
You're one of the many who are naturally talented. I have a lot of friends like you, and it makes me feel like a useless shitheap. 30 hours in training mode to perfect a stage/learn a character, where as they learn it all on their first few tries.

God damn, it pisses me off watching them play any video game. When somebody can pick up and play every character in a fighter within their first few days of playing, when I'm still at the peak of mediocrity with one character in six months of playing, it really makes me upset.

>>9994763
You're not alone. *gently pats shoulder*

>>9994754
Google it.

Also, stop misusing the spoiler function.

where should I put my focus on a lunatic run?

looking at my hitbox dot doesn't work because I gotta keep track of the bullets, should I look at the middle of the screen? a bit lower?

i'm having trouble finding the sweetspot

>>9994798
It depends on the pattern. Don't sweat the small stuff, you'll learn it as you go along.

>>9994790
I'm a retard, thank you.

>>9994798

It really depends. Focusing at your character allows you to spot more gaps. The further away your focus from your character, the more bullets you can keep track of and anticipate their movement, but the harder it is to spot and dodge through gaps.

Orin's starting move in SA stage 4 is a good example. In lunatic the bullets are incredibly fast, so you have to focus more on the top middle of the screen. While you can anticipate many of those bullets, you have to treat clusters of bullets as a whole and dodge them, so you definitely won't be able to make any efficient dodges. Wayward bullets will also get you.

>>9995075
If you're gonna use a name, use a trip as well.

>>9995084
fixed spelling for you

>>9995084
Most of the time I look the yellow zone, but I don't play on lunatic.

>>9995084
>Red = Never look at this region, unless you know what you are doing

u wot m8

>>9995110
Sanae's Ms Claustrophobia. You should know what you are doing.

As you can see from my history on that spellcard I have no clue what I'm doing, but the point is that lots of patterns on Lunatic require you to hone in on your sprite regardless of how good you are.

>>9995126
>>9994800

>>9994000
I already did this once and don't feel like doing it again.

http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=18521

>>9994709
>fuggen shitty players why can't they all be naturally talented savants like me fugg

It was a poor attempt to copy someone's where-to-look guide. The context was a manic shooter, so it isn't very applicable in Touhou.

Generally, the faster the pattern is, the more I tend to look further away from character. In dense, claustrophobic attacks, I'd even try to squeeze hitbox inside the bullets and hitbox inside the characters' hitbox.

>>9995081
trip?

>>9995289
Type ##foo after your name in the name field, where foo is your password.

>>9995289
http://www.4chan.org/faq

>>9995299
I read it as /fag

>>9994000
I'll look into it when I get home.
>>9994709
It depends on the person and these games take practice.
>>9994763
>30 hours in training mode to perfect a stage/learn a character, where as they learn it all on their first few tries.
That's a phenomenon that often happens that makes you play better after you have left something for a while, or it is your first try. It happens to everyone. Don't be upset that someone can beat you to a perfect run, because that doesn't mean that they are better than you.
>God damn, it pisses me off watching them play any video game. When somebody can pick up and play every character in a fighter within their first few days of playing, when I'm still at the peak of mediocrity with one character in six months of playing, it really makes me upset.
I don't believe this, or you are doing something very wrong. I don't believe in natural talent. There are far too many factors to consider in what can make someone better at a game than "they were born with it".
>>9994798
You will generally be looking a little above your character's sprite while playing in any game, but it depends. Knowing where to look comes with practice. Generally, faster bullets will have you looking farther away and denser ones will have you looking closer.
>>9995102
I agree with this image.

>>9995489
How do you deal with all of the bullying and scolding you get over here?

twitch.tv/eldestructoe
Playing some sort of Hard mode I guess.
I'm only posting this because someone complained.

>>9994000
death fairy ate my faith

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41394
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41427

>>9996827
Stay free scrub.

>>9995544
by thinking the problem lies with everyone else and not with him

although "thinking" is being generous

It's time
twitch.tv/exxelent

>>9998776

>tfw play on lunatic but only stream touhou for friends or vg

maybe I could drop the link here now and then

I finally reached The Mountain Fortress without continuing.

>>9998810
>only stream touhou for vg

What a waste.

Just got a Corsair K60 Cherry Red. Feels so much better than my old keyboard.
Mechanical keyboards are the best.

>>9998925
I hope that keyboard explodes into tiny little pieces.

>>9995102

>>9999328
As good as >>9995925

>>9999328
And don't forget black.

Black = Close your eyes, pray and hope for the best.

Any non-Touhou shmup players on /jp/?
Still trying to 1cc Soldier Blade.

>>9999328
Cute Normal mode, T.

>>9999897
Truxton is also quite nice.

>>9999328
>Normal
>06/99+

And I thought I was bad.

>>10000044
>>10000227
http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=23323

>>10000399

>>9999897
I've been playing Twinkle Star Sprites. Bought a copy of Detana! Twinbee Yahho! off of ebay for Saturn, looking forward to getting it.

>>9995544
It's 4chan, I'm well-known, and I'm using a trip, so it's only to be expected. There's nothing to take seriously. To be honest, I find it kind of funny what the trolls come up with. I would like them to stop, though. It would make the board nicer to look at and I'm sure that not everyone cares for the drama. I doubt that much will change unless they get bored or some kind of moderation is added.

The biggest problem is that they refuse any kind of dialogue or compromise. They refuse to do anything to solve their problems and resort to insipid trolling. It makes me think that they only want to complain, and that they really have no quarrel with me. I'm only a target because of what I mentioned earlier. I'm not the only one in the board that gets it.
>>9998810
Please do. We like to see new skill and it would take stress away from us.
>>9998925
I wasn't this sure about my keyboard the day I got it. It took weeks to get used to it. I still wonder what it would be like to use Blacks.
>>9999022
The way I use mine, I'm surprised it hasn't. These things are durable.
>>10000399
Ten Desires. ;_;

How do I get over my fear of bombing.

>>10000560
Plan them.

>>10000560
Use them when you don't need to.

>>10000560
Don't.

Dodge everything, or at least try to.
If you get hit, too bad, take it like a man.
Bombing is for pussies.

>>10000544
I'm sorry, but trolling? Is that really your reasoning? You can't possibly be this close-minded and self-centered. There are many reasons why people don't like you, like, for example, you being so damn two-faced, egoistical, pretentious with the need to respond to everything, acting like you've been here and on #pofv since the beginning, thinking you're the end-all-be-all of Touhou dedication, or your constant need for attention by the number of viewers on the streams, etc. And you're probably going to deny all of that. You really need to open your eyes and stop constantly forcing yourself to believe that the problem lies only in the people around you, and that you're simply perfect. The problem, in reality, lies in both parties. Of course, that won't ever get too far through your thick skull and the ego inside it, so you'll just resort to closing your ears and eyes and just shouting like a child "LALALA THEY ARE TROLLING." Kinda like you did just now.

And what kind of compromise do you suggest to solve "their" problems? For everyone that doesn't like the way you act to stop not liking it? Seriously, what kind of one-sided, Riz-friendly "compromise" is that. I could understand if you actually took note of what people complain about and cooperated to alleviate the problem, but I somehow doubt you would ever do that. Hell, you haven't even made an attempt at that at all. All you seem to have done is told yourself that everyone should deal with the way you are, at which point you're in no position to tell others to compromise or understand. You could beg for moderation, and it will turn in to a forum like MotK. At which point you might as well as be posting there.

I really don't like drama as much as you do, but seriously, don't act like you're not a major cause of it.

>>9997628
>by thinking the problem lies with everyone else and not with him
Yep, just as you said.
>>10000544 >everyone's trolling hurr

>>10000680
Bombing is for scoring. Learn to play touhou properly.

Ibara scares me.

>>10000747
Yeah and he's not scoring.

>>9994000
I managed 43,686,300 but fullscreen mode didn't let me take a screenshot. Thanks to >>9995135
for motivation.

>>10000560
I have the same problem, I would last a lot longer than I usually do if I would just bomb.

>>10000560
Just practice. There is nothing to be afraid of if you are playing survival.
>>10000681
I am very impressed with this post.

Yes, trolling. It's not the first time I've used that term. If I was close-minded and self-centered, then I wouldn't bother to respond to all of this criticism. I have no reason to deny any of that. I don't care what you think of me, who you are, or how long you've been here. I have no reason to lecture you on how I would like you to act. No, I don't think I'm perfect. I'm not always satisfied with the way I act and I'm far from the best Touhou player in the world. I am sometimes a major cause of drama, but I'm not alone on this.

So tell me, just what do you expect me to do? Would would make you happy? How would you like me to act?

>>10000881
>If I was... self-centered, then I wouldn't bother to respond to all of this criticism.
you what, mate

>>10000680

I used to think that. But then I was told that my weakness was in not pressing the X button. I got my first UFO 1cc once I actually started bombing more.

>>10000544
Stop using "us", "we", or things like that. Your opinion is your own, and most likely don't respresent others' in here.

Stop responding things that has been responded without adding anything. Stamping Riz's seal of approval?

Delusional images of yourself need to stop. /jp/ and its shooting thread has longer history than you, so does the now-dead #pofv. Thinking yourself as a great player doesn't work either because you've only been playing for one and half year. People've been playing these things since R-Type, Gradius, etc.

This is my solution. You finish creating your own message board That would solve the problem of you being an annoyance here and you could go to your own fantasy land and be happy.

>>10000881
Do you know what "trolling" means? You still think people don't like you because they just want to make you unsatisfied for no sufficient reason, rather than for all the reasons that I mentioned above? Don't be so ignorant. But now you throw the "I don't give a fuck" response, and, once again, suggest nothing towards any compromise.

While we're on that topic of a compromise, you ask what I expect you to do? Let's not make my small earlier lecture sound like a command that I expected you to fulfill. Never did I ask you to do anything other than to help be part of the compromise that you want. But since you asked so kindly, stop:
>being so damn two-faced, egoistical
>acting like you've been here and on #pofv since the beginning
>thinking you're the end-all-be-all of Touhou dedication

>>10000926
>Thinking yourself as a great player doesn't work either because you've only been playing for one and half year. People've been playing these things since R-Type, Gradius, etc

It doesn't matter how long he's been playing. If he has greater accomplishments than the people who have been playing for 20 years, then a.) that makes him a better player, and b.) those other people must be the casualest casuals.

>>10000818
You can press the button "home" and the game saves a .bmp screenshot for you.

Or at least offer a replay so people would know what they're against.

>>10001072
Riz doesn't really hold the greatest achievements of /jp/, though. He's barely in the top 5.

>>10001104
Top five is pretty good, really. The vast majority of people in /jp/ don't even post in these threads because nobody wants to hear about their PCB hard survival runs or whatever non-difficult shit it is they're bashing their head against.

>>10001104
And he's closer to the bottom when it comes to ranking against Japanese players, yet he still thinks he's on their level.

>>10001101
Doesn't work half the time on my laptop.

>>10001104
Who are the other four?

>>10001150
I'm against namedropping. If you really needed to know, you would.

>>10001121
Saving a replay doesn't work? Must be pretty fucked up for you.

>>10001101
Thanks man, I didn't know that.

>>10000926
>Stop using "us", "we", or things like that. Your opinion is your own, and most likely don't respresent others' in here.
I'll keep that in mind.
>Stop responding things that has been responded without adding anything. Stamping Riz's seal of approval?
I like to contribute. Yes, it is like a seal of approval. The more people give you a similar advice, the more legitimate is seems. If only one person tells you something, you might not believe it. It depends on the recipient to value my opinion for what it is.
>Delusional images of yourself need to stop. /jp/ and its shooting thread has longer history than you, so does the now-dead #pofv. Thinking yourself as a great player doesn't work either because you've only been playing for one and half year.
How does one stop being delusional? I like to think that I'm good for someone that has been playing that long. I don't consider myself to be among the best in the world. I like to think about what I can accomplish if I play for as long as some Japanese players.
>/jp/ and its shooting thread has longer history than you, so does the now-dead #pofv.
Okay.
>This is my solution. You finish creating your own message board That would solve the problem of you being an annoyance here and you could go to your own fantasy land and be happy.
My board isn't meant as a replacement for /jp/. Actually, I've already said too much. I'd rather not have it mentioned here.
>>10000996
I never thought I did that in the first place. It looks like I have some work to do.
>>10001072
You are very kind, but I think he's right. It's only been a year and a half since I started playing. I have not come close to reaching to peak of my skill or matching some of the best players in these games. That is a work in progress.
>>10001104
I thought the top 5 was good.

>>10001199
>I thought the top 5 was good.
And I thought /jp/ only has about 5 people who actively play or used to do so. You're still on the lower side of the spectrum of whatever "skill" there is. At least from my point of view, you were always one of the worse players of #pofv. I used to like you and hope for your improvement, I was interested in what you could become. Obviously, when you started saying you are good due to having played one game on one difficulty, you let me and many others down.

You should never be good enough, you can always be better.

>>10001251
I can think of more than 5. Still, we are a small community, so the smallest achievements can go far. I don't like to change my goals around until I am done with them, and 6/6 LNBNV is still my goal. It bugs me too that I am stuck with it, but I'm not going to stop until it is done. I will change it around after that. It is my playing style to focus on a narrow set of challenges and only change them when I am done. It's just a different skillset. I can clear any Touhou on Lunatic or Extra easily, and I've done other challenges such as LNB on the other games, but yes, I can still be a lot better at them. I'm good in that sense, but I'm bad in another. Those achievements wouldn't mean a thing to someone who is really good at those games. I don't claim to be as good at the other games as some other players, and I'm not trying to be, but I do think that I'm good at UFO Lunatic.

>>10001322
>I do think that I'm good at UFO Lunatic.
I don't, and that's where we disagree. You should never be good enough. It's a different mindset, alright.

Any streams? I wouldn't mind watching one.

>>9994000
Got a 47 million run, but I'm too slow I guess.

So far I only 1cc'd PCB with Sakuya A and MoF with Reimu A.
I guess character with a lot of bomb and a lazy autoaim are what I need. To think I used to play Marisa only because of her high damage, but I died with bombs remaining, but now I can deathbomb 80% of the time.

Any advices ?

Yeah the bullets won't hit me, I'll go graze the final blue/violet wave on Reflowering without any need to do so.

Fucking idiot.

>>10001732

http://www.livestream.com/andradiffxi

Back to this because flippy floppy and more smooth play, I guess.

>>10001917
Keep playing and practising. Keep in mind Reimu often has a longer deathbomb window. Do try the high powered shots. They can be a little more difficult in places, but often make short work of spellcards.

>>10001150
A filthy /jp/ scrub doesn't deserve to know. Call us back when you can manage 1cc IN on Easy, scrub.

>>10001834
Please share the replay.

>>10002607
http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=25055

>>10002748
Thanks. That was very lovely. I never considered ReimuC.

Love the new keyboard

>>10002837

Which keyboard?

>>10002837
I wish I had MX-reds instead of browns. But then again, I'm a really shitty player so I doubt it would make much of a difference in my case.

>>10002857
see >>9998925

>>10002998
You can be good with any type of control setup.

If I remember correctly, some of the top Futari players use a 360 pad, and that is what I call a terrible controller. Some people say you need a stick or mechanical keyboard to get good, but screw that. Personally, I use Saturn pad and stick. I only use stick because I love that arcade feel in MAME shmoops.

Does the keyboard you use really make that much difference, playing on Lunatic? I'm using a regular Microsoft dome keyboard, how much would I improve by using a decent mechanical one.

>>10003684
You will definitely improve once you get used to it.

>>10003684
It's not a huge difference skill-wise, but you will definitely feel a lot more comfortable. I think that it would be worth it to get a mechanical for that reason alone.

>>10003684
Not in the slightest. You'll improve by practicing, not by spending money on a new keyboard.

So does anyone else have days where they play like complete shit? I must've died to Yuyuko's first non-spell about twenty times today, and it seemed like whatever stage from whatever game I tried I just did horribly.

>>10004050
Yes.

>>10004050
Yeah, everyday.

Rolling out in less than five
twitch.tv/exxelent

>>10004050
I have those days and they make me pretty frustrated.

MOTHERFUCKER

>>10000544
>It's 4chan, I'm well-known, and I'm using a trip, so it's only to be expected. [...] I would like them to stop, though. It would make the board nicer to look at and I'm sure that not everyone cares for the drama. I doubt that much will change unless they get bored or some kind of moderation is added.

>The biggest problem is that they refuse any kind of dialogue or compromise. They refuse to do anything to solve their problems and resort to insipid trolling. It makes me think that they only want to complain, and that they really have no quarrel with me. I'm only a target because of what I mentioned earlier. I'm not the only one in the board that gets it.

A blast from the past, or a dark shadow from the registration forums of the old? If only you had listened, /jp/!

why is this thread 20% shooter discussion and 80% stream posting. It's like I'm really on /vg/

>>10004891
Because exxelent is shit at 2hu and got some semblance of popularity and other people want to cash in on that.

>>10004891
Because not enough people discuss shooters except in streams. The thread is half-dead because there aren't enough players. The genre is niche.

>>10004898
And the reason streams are made and watched is for the company, not for any sort of fame.

>>10004924
You know, I'm sure there would be more players if people would actually give non-shit advice. "STAY FREE FOREVER." What wonderful advice. Even funnier due to the fact that they'll also complain about there being no competition five minutes later.

There's a reason why these games work in Japan, it's because the players over there aren't complete bastards.

>>10005240
That's a fair point, but it's nothing I can do anything about. We need moderation.

>>10005240
>I'm sure there would be more players if people would actually give non-shit advice.

Aside from specific tricks to spellcards (which usually seems to be given) there's not much advice you can give aside from "keep practising" and "bomb more"..

>>10005240
Just in case you were confused, the people that say shit like that aren't the good players.

>>10005319
Don't call anybody good. They wouldn't want that. If you say you're good you won't improve.

>>10005364
Then let's be quantitative about it.

I can guarantee that none of the people that post shit like "STAY FREE" are among the best 5 Touhou players on /jp/. I would say 10, but a number that high risks encompassing the entire population of /jp/ that plays these games at all.

>>10005240
Honestly, I always thought that the one guy spamming that stay free forever crap was Naut, or one of his smurfs from #pofv.

>>10005488
Naut seems like a fair guy to me based on how I've seen him act, and the dudes over at #pofv don't seem like the type to be assholes for no reason at all. Well, they don't seem like the type to do anything, since the channel is dead and I wasn't there back when it wasn't dead.

Could someone stream?

>>10007677
No.

>>10007677
Fine. >>9995678
PCB Extra I think.

>900M entering midboss Youmu
>1,35M final score

I've lost count of the runs I've trashed to Yuyuko like this. Horrifying.

>>10008069
>1,35B final score.I'm an idiot.

Nothing good came out of it. Yuyuko beat my ass once again.

>>10005488
Naut is a friendly guy, he just doesn't like helping out new players. He isn't the type who would actively bash newer players unless they really deserve it. I think the only advice I've seen him give to a beginner was, "practice makes perfect." Which isn't bad advice, but coming from him, it probably makes them feel terrible.

As for the other people on #PoFV, I really have no idea. But if it's anything like the other STG IRC channels I've been on, it's probably filled with bullies.

>>10008396
>practice makes perfect
That's about as useful as saying ``the sky is blue''.
Ignoring people would be more respectful than spweing this.

>>9995678
And we're back. A different Extra this time, you can pick.

>>10008096
I know that feeling.

>>10008449
Well, it's kind of soul crushing when somebody aeons better than you tells you that practice makes perfect. Especially so when they've achieved much more than you have in a much shorter period of time.

Well, I just started playing on Lunatic after my first Normal 1cc.

It's a pretty depressing difficulty, and I'm stuck in Stage 1 Hell with restartitis. It's painful not having nautral talent, but I guess I'll get there eventually. Hearing the first few notes of The Dark Blowhole is making me feel even more incompetent. I wish I could be like IRC players and get to ST5 or 6 on my very first try.

>>10009530
Practice makes perfect. :V

>>10008449
The truth is never disrespectful unless you disrespect it
- abobymous, 2012

>>10009530
I highly doubt anyone has ever gotten to stage 5 or 6 of any touhou game on lunatic without continuing on their first run of the game ever. The only way I can see that being remotely possible is if they've played a ton of shmups in the past and have watched replays beforehand.

Well, I just started playing UFO on Lunatic.

It's depressingly easy, and I'm sure I beat the WR on my very first try. It's painful though, because for some silly reason the score didn't work properly and just stopped at some point. Oh well, since I never play games twice that's that I guess. I wish I could be like IRC players and be autistic enough to play the same game every day for months on end.

>>10009616
>I highly doubt anyone has ever gotten to stage 5 or 6 of any touhou game on lunatic without continuing on their first run of the game ever.

You'd be surprised.

>>10009590
You are shit at Touhou, and I kicked your ass in IaMP. Please, go back to training mode for another hundred years before facing me again.
- Naut, 2008

>>10009616
You have got to be fucking kidding me.

>>10009530
The first two stages lunatic aren't harder than the last stages normal, so if you didn't just bomb through everything you should be more than fine.

good times

>>10009677
>>10009625
Congratulations.

>>10009625
yeah UFO is the easiest touhou :V I nmnbnfuo'd that shit at 120fps on my first try cause I got me some nautral talent, you commoners don't have nothing on us IRC playas

>>10009616
There's a handful of players who have actually beaten them on their first tries. But the only ones that really stick out are T and Nindella.

Doing SA Lunatic on your first try is one thing, but being able to tackle SA Ultra on your third try, and making it all the way to the end of Stage 4 just isn't right. It's downright disgusting.

>>10009736
They played shmups before attempting lunatic.

>>10008396
>>10009046
sometimes, for beginners, the best advice is that you need to play more. if someone is struggling on normal, it's more important for him to get a handle on shmup basics and resource management than it is to hear specific tactics for certain attacks. especially if the question is something like "how do i into sakuya", since it indicates that the guy either doesn't know how to stream and misdirect or that he hasn't bothered to practice and try various things. and he certainly hasn't bothered to watch a replay. if he doesn't care enough, why should anyone else? just give the default advice: play more, memo harder, watch a replay

also, while i'm only speaking for myself, i find it difficult to relate to folks who are struggling with normal (or even hard for most games). not just because that was several hundred hours of playtime ago for me, but because basically all i did in that initial phase was play more. it's a diy mindset. so, from my perspective, "practice makes perfect" isn't intentionally brusque or mean: it's all that needs to be said. especially if the guy giving the advice is busy losing his life to wow

again, that's just sometimes. there are a lot of good questions that deserve good answers. and sometimes good questions get seen as bad ones just because there are so many bad ones, so it's easy to give an off-the-cuff, default response. try to not get hung up over one quick reply... or try to not assume the worst in people

[btw, i'm nowhere near as good as people like naut, so i wasn't trying to pretend that i was in what i just wrote. but i would be so be a nautsmurf if i could]

>>10009652
except he doesn't play fighters and that's a different "naut", as we established earlier

>>10009616
does td count?

A stream would be nice.

>>10010433
Would it, now?

>>10010452
Yes!

Has anyone done a MoF no death no bomb clear on Lunatic yet?

bumpu

>>10012718
yes all of the main games have been perfected, unless you meant anyone from /jp/.

>>10013442
>yes all of the main games have been perfected

Even EoSD? Thought that one was impossible due to rank bs.

A stream would be nice <3

>>10013718
http://www.livestream.com/arf2hu

Playing Double Spoiler and I'll take requests, not sure how well the stream will run though.

>>10013522
Nothing is impossible when you have enough talent. EoSD perfect is possible, even for really shitty players like me. I've gotten to Remilia no miss no bomb, only to die retardedly to Scarlet Meister.

>>10014501
Is that you, Phar?

Time to give up and swap shots, or something. And I guess I'll stop using this thread as my personal blog.

Running away like a little girl again, but I'll be satisfied with this.

>>10014295

hey, that stream was short... And I couldn't watch it D:

anyone up for another one?

>>10014577
>I'll stop using this thread as my personal blog.

Isn't that what this thread is basically for?
As long as it's Touhou related of course.

>>10014714
Since I have nothing serious to contribute into this thread. It'd be different if I could open lots of kinds of discussion with my images and screenshots and stuff, but for now they just seem like some dull selfish announcements which hardly have appeal for most of the people browsing these boards. Would be much different if I started to talk about, say, CherryMAX and border optimisation over here, and asking guestions or throwing suggestions. For now my blogging has really been just self-centered, and I'd rather not do that.

Also, I'd prefer staying anonymous for most of the time. I dislike many kinds of attention, so already posting things like this post or the earlier screenshot feel like scary things to do. Not everyone is willing to stand out like Riz, really.

-

Well, lets not make this a completely useless contribution to thread. Any anon willing to wonder how much can we graze of the border on Letty's first nonspell. Obviously normal, since I hardly have knowledge on the others. Personal best is shown in the image, but I do believe that you could go ways beyond it. Haven't really watched many replays, though.

>>10014714
>>10014714
Since I have nothing serious to contribute into this thread. It'd be different if I could open lots of kinds of discussion with my images and screenshots and stuff, but for now they just seem like some dull selfish announcements which hardly have appeal for most of the people browsing these boards. Would be much different if I started to talk about, say, CherryMAX and border optimisation over here, and asking guestions or throwing suggestions. For now my blogging has really been just self-centered, and I'd rather not do that.

Also, I'd prefer staying anonymous for most of the time. I dislike many kinds of attention, so already posting things like this post or the earlier screenshot feel like scary things to do. Not everyone is willing to stand out like Riz, really.

-

Well, lets not make this a completely useless contribution to thread. Any anon willing to wonder how much can we graze of the border on Letty's first nonspell. Obviously normal, since I hardly have knowledge on the others. Personal best is shown in the image, but I do believe that you could go ways beyond it. Haven't really watched many replays, though.

>>10013442
Replay please.

>>10014987
I stopped posting my accomplishments at another board for the same reasons. I didn't want to make the thread look like my blog, since only a few of us take the games seriously and I'm the most active.

There aren't many people asking for advice either, so there isn't much else I can post besides 'hey, I did this'. Oh well.

>>10015166
http://score.royalflare.net/th10/replay10/th10_ud14f6.rpy
http://score.royalflare.net/th10/replay10/th10_ud16e1.rpy
http://score.royalflare.net/th10/replay10/th10_ud1644.rpy
http://score.royalflare.net/th10/replay10/th10_ud161a.rpy
http://score.royalflare.net/th10/replay10/th10_ud161b.rpy
http://score.royalflare.net/th10/replay10/th10_ud14f5.rpy
http://score.royalflare.net/th10/replay10/th10_ud1643.rpy

>>10013522
http://twitpic.com/acpw6k

>>10014501
I don't think there's anyone in this world can get all gold medals in GFW lunatic. Someone from Gensokyo might be possible though.

>>10015657
Yeah, I bet Cirno could do it

I 1cc'd MoF in eazy with ReimuA

I would 1cc in normal if there wasn't that fucking kanako.

>>10015737
marisa C, focus option under kanako, gg no re.

>>10015737
>>10015745
forgot my pic ಠ_ಠ, kanakos face when!

twitch.tv/chirpy13

90fps DOJBL kusoplay, maybe some other stuff after. Feel free to request stuff.

1st run in like a year, how hard is it to break 170m?
Do you need to supergraze a lot or, would good survival & capturing cards do it?

>>10015771
What is your upload speed?

>>10015777
easy to break 170m, practice makes perfect and watch replays ^_^

>>10015777
Good survival will get you 170M+. Getting anything over 250-300M will require you to actually score.

>>10015644
>http://twitpic.com/acpw6k
What's the story behind this.

>>10015910
Just a naturally talented savant.

>>10015745
>marisa
2fast4me

>>10015952
press down shift for concentrated displacement.

>>10015959
fuck off
it's impossible to deathbomb with marisa

>>10016020
Huh ? you're playing Mountain of Bombs dude, you don't need to deathbomb.

That moment when you clench your buttcheeks because the pattern you're facing is tough as HELL and you might die? Press X before dying and stay alive.

>>10016050
But I don't have infinite bombs

>>9981863
So I want to start playing the games, which ones should I try first? I guess the first one, but maybe it is like 2hardcore4me, which one is the most entry level?

>>10016096
Play IN first, it's the easiest game on easy mode

>>10016062
>mountain of faith
>I don't have infinite bombs
Yes you do.

Unless you're completely horrible at dodging.

>>10016101
I 1cc'd EoSD, PCB and MoF but can't get past stage 4 of IN.

Worst gimmick of all games, and worst choice of shot types.

>>10016101
I will, thanks

>>10016096
UFO or SA, start with Hard Mode. I expect a clear within two weeks. Good luck.

>>10016111
I thought Border team was broken

>>10016096
PCB because the cherry.

Maybe EoSD because no gimmick.

>>10016096
LLS if you don't mind PC98, EoSD if you do.

>>10016111
>gimmick
IN is for autists who get boners from large numbers and like grazing for immediate reward. That's why I love it. And it has the best shot type of any Touhou game in it.

>>10016125
>EoSD
>no gimmick

dude, what
EoSD has possibly the worst gimmick of all the games.

>>10016284
Which is almost irrelevant for normal mode when trying to 1cc

>>10016357
Irrelevant? Have you actually tried playing it?

It's relevant as hell.

>>10016391
I actually 1cc'd EoSD on my first try today.

rank system goes down when you bomb or don't pick up point items, which are two things you do when you have a hard time dodging. Self regulating.

>>10016416
It goes down the most when you get hit.

I can almost taste the 2-ALL, but I keep fucking up the 2-5 boss. It's so frustrating going through the first loop so many times, only to fail stupid shit I've practiced millions of times using save states.

It feels like I'm at a wall, everything is either too easy or too fucking hard. I've been practicing 2-5 and 2-6 both for the past six months, and it seems like I've hit the point to where I'm no longer progressing. This feels like such a chore, but I absolutely cannot give up now.

>>10015806
Pretty shitty. 512kbps

>>10016391
i agree

i hate it when i fuck up and my favorite patterns slow down

I have never successfully 1CC any touhou game on normal. Even the games were you can changed the default lives. I really fucking blow at this game. I have played every game from 6 and up.

>>10016854

>>10016854
It's gonna take more than 1 try to clear one of these games. Unless you've got some nautural talent.

>>10016982
Been playing this on and off for about a year. Best I have ever done was getting to the final stage on TD
Getting to Sakuya on normal

I always want to say UFO and MOF are probably my two favorite games, but I can not beat them on normal. I doubt I can on easy.

Anyone streaming?

>>10016854
Try playing Lotus Land Story, it was my first 1cc.

>>10017024
Just keep playing. Be consistent, and play at least one run each day.

>>10016284
What gimmick does EoSD could have when most of its patterns are just fast bullets raining down from above to below.

>>10017024
Focus on clearing a single game first, don't try doing all of them at once or switching around all the time.
1. Pick a shot type you're most comfortable with (I'd recommend Reimu for beginners) and always play with default lives.
2. Use continues just to clear the stages and unlock them all in Practice first.
3. Abuse Practice mode with each stage seperately and stuff you're having problems with.
4. Watch replays of others that are better than you, to get an idea how you're supposed to play.
4. When you're finally confident you can do it go for it and remember to bomb a lot if all you want is a 1cc.

>>10017124
The rank system.

>>10017124
I think they're referring to rank.

>>10017124
EoSD has the rank system dude.
It makes a huge difference if the "fast bullets raining down from above to below" are three times as dense or two times faster then they were before.

>>10017131
>>10017148
Why don't treat max rank as a normal thing? EoSD's rank has a cap unlike certain Yagawa games, and it reaches the cap quite fast.

>>10017128
Thanks guess I will try to work of EoSD. It seems to be the easiest of the games, next to TD.

>>10004668
Going at it again tonight with some PCB.

I give up
Kanako is invencible

>>10017184
I do treat it like it's a normal thing but some patterns are actually harder/more annoying to dodge when the rank is lower, although there aren't many like that.
And like >>10016828 said
It really sucks when that happens.

>>10017239
I tried over a hundred times against her myself, never beat her. ;_;

2 lives isn't enough.

Do 1cc with abuse of bug and bombs still counts?

>>10017468
Decide for yourself if it counts. It's pretty lame if you actively try to abuse that bug though.

>>10017468
Fuck, warn us that the spoiler is an ending.

>>10017131
>>10017132
>>10017148
Rank is not a gimmick it's been in nearly every STG since forever, also EoSD's rank is pretty minimalistic.

>>10017492
Warning you that the spoiler image contain spoilers?

>>10017509
Spoilers are often just NSFW images.

>>10017468
yes it counts, the bug, while cheap, is a legit part of the game and so are bombs (obviously).

>>10017468
Abuse of bombs, yes. The bug? No, not really. ZUN didn't intend for Marisa to do that much damage, so I don't believe it should count as a 1cc.

But there isn't any direct competition unless you actively post on scoring boards, so play however you please. It's really hollow playing like that though.

>>10017506
>minimalistic
which translates to annoying. you can't control it to any meaningful degree; all you can do is watch as it adds insult to injury. post-death flower dream vine is depressing as hell, for example

it's shit. everything else is moot

EoSD's rank is nothing when compared to how obnoxious and unintuitive its scoring system is.

>>10017600
>ZUN didn't intend for Marisa to do that much damage

>>10019154
It's true though.

Any Marisa should NEVER deal as much damage as Reimu needle, golden rule of touhou.

>>10019646
This bothers me, since Marisa's motto is "Danmaku's all about firepower".

I guess the masterspark makes up for it, even if that's been kind of dodgy lately.

>>10019646
>>10019658
Yeah, it's funny. Marisa should totally be a bit stronger than Reimu needle, because if she isn't she has no redeeming qualitites. Master Spark is a dud and cripples her.

>>10019658
>>10019668
Master spark makes marisa the slowest character in the game.

Just bombed, it doesn't collect items (for whatever reason), and you can't poc.
How nice for the fastest playable character who's all about item collection.

>>10019684

I think it depends what game you're playing. But in UFO and TD where you really want to be mobile during a bomb it's a tragedy.

>>10019695
Also, you have to time your laser correctly if you want them to be active during the bomb, because that's the only way to shoot during it.

At least Marisa tree have a less hindering bomb, though it doesn't clear all the screen, doesn't last long, and need to be used as a shotgun to deal any damage.

At least it's not as bad as her bombs in SA.

>>10019719
Personally, Master Spark is worse than any of the bombs in SA. A/B's can be used point blank repeatedly to skip spellcards (rewarding the player with a life piece at the cost of power). MarisaC's does the same if the player doesn't take too many hits. Master Spark in SA would have fulfilled more or less the same purpose as Marisa A or B's bomb, but with better screenclearing and longer duration.

If SA bombs were useable in UFO or TD, I would definitely take MarisaA/B's bomb over Master Spark though.

I still only play normal, is there anny appeal to Marisa on higher difficulties?

Because as far as extra goes, only Marisa tree would be viable, and that's only because her shot type is larger than Reimu needles in some games.
Also because her bomb doesn't slow her down.

Maybe once you controll her speed well and can dash through danmaku instead of dodging all of it she becomes good? Marisa can get out of situation like this more easily than Reimu, but her shot type are just so useless against spellcards where the boss moves around a lot. Patchouli's last spell card end up during ages because she's on the other side of the screen and doesn't want to move from here.

>>10019966
Better for item collection and aggressive dodging. If you are talking about EoSD, Reimu doesn't have an advantage since both characters have the same hitbox size. You can always move as slow as Reimu with Marisa by microtapping, after all. At that point, it all comes down to which shottype you like.

>>10019966
>Maybe once you controll her speed well and can dash through danmaku instead of dodging all of it she becomes good?

Someone post that picture. You know the one.

>>10019966
>but her shot type are just so useless against spellcards where the boss moves around a lot.

So are the best Reimu ones. Needles for life.

Certain Marisa shots are good, combining decent power with utility. MarisaB from PCB is one of my favourites, piercing lasers with reasonable spread with UF and good damage when F. Nice bomb, too. Only reason I didn't get the first 1cc with her is (theoretically) due to not enough bombs, but it's a very fun shot to use. Marisa C in MoF has great utility and monstrous power if you get 3 of the launchers on a boss.

>>10020011
>You know the one.
?

>>10020011
> Marisa C in MoF has great utility and monstrous power if you get 3 of the launchers on a boss.

Yeah, no kidding. Her stage performance are a bit under average, though.

> MarisaB from PCB is one of my favourites

Really? I enjoy marisa B, but her PCB one is my least favorite.
>not enough bombs
Well, it's PCB dude, you get all those free screen clear with the cherry border, and Marisa collects them faster than others. Also she gets life easier.
Master spark will get rid of any spellcard you don't like in an instant, the duration and power makes up for it in PCB imo.
The huge downside is the speed limit that prevents you from collecting stuff because the bomb doesn't, and it makes me sad.

>>10020063
MarisaB is actually quite bad at cherry collecting.

Btw guys, we're 22 posts past the post-number for autosaging.

>>10020036
You bet. Now I have it too, for future use.

>>10020063
>Her stage performance are a bit under average, though.

Really? The ability to set the options on one side and Marisa on the other trivialises several sections in a way none of the other shottypes can.

>>10020063
>Master spark will get rid of any spellcard you don't like in an instant

So will a well placed ReimuB focus-bomb, and you get more of them. I did go back and get the 1cc with MariB as well, but it was a close thing.

>>10020068
It didn't feel like it to me, though I guess you're right, I remember reading something about number comparison and shit.

>>10020086
>The ability to set the options on one side and Marisa on the other trivialises several sections in a way none of the other shottypes can.
Too slow. I don't like tapping shift just to get a decent speed.

>So will a well placed ReimuB focus-bomb, and you get more of them
That was not my point, though.
Marisa B bomb deals more damage, clears the screen better, and lasts longer than Marisa A bomb.

And Marisa B have an easier stage performance. due to piercing.

>>10020129
>Too slow. I don't like tapping shift just to get a decent speed.
Then you are crippling yourself and MarisaC is not for you. MarisaC is all about tapping shift, it has a malice cannon like effect too.