/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Why do you need to be religious if you are already in heaven? Silly Touhou.

Isn't needless violence against the teaching of Buddah?

Gee, what use is following a religion if you don't listen to the the guy who started it.

What exactly was Zun thinking when he decided to make a Touhou based on a Buddhist saint, but decided that she would be a Taoist?

>>9924515
>Isn't needless violence against the teaching of Buddah?

Violent Buddhists rationalize their actions as self-defense. There's a self-defense clause to "do no harm" see, which is subject to certain abuses.

>>9924516
>ZUN
>thinking
I laughed.

When is ZUN going to make a Jesuit Touhou so that Roman Catholicism can be thrown into the mix?

>>9924515

Japanese aren't truBUDDHIST.

They're the least tru out of every country that practices Buddhism. For fuck's sake, their monks drive cars, have jobs, and are allowed to marry.

Even fucking /jp/ is more monk than Japanese monks.

>>9924521
Once again humanity proves that it is not the subject, but the fucking fan club/secondaries that ruin it for everybody else.

You may think I am joking, but it is always the people who don't know what they are talking about that screw things up.

>>9924534
Only dead religions enter Gensokyo because they can't sustain their faith in the outside world.

>>9924534
a southern baptist touhou would be more entertaining

>>9924544
deep :O

>>9924544
Buddhism, Toaism, and Shinto are not dead religions. Especially not Buddhism, it's one of the five major world religions.

>>9924554
Sure, she could go on about Creationism and whatnot, but Baptists have had nothing to do with Japan historically.

>>9924563
he trolled you hard, dood.

What about that Nipp guy that said he was God and did those mass marriages but died recently. Why isn't there 2hu for his people

I'm more interested in muslims kicking christians ass so to keep them away from my motherfucking door.

>>9924508
Heaven isn't the annihilation of self and suffering.

>>9924515
Zen supported the fascistic Syndicats that controlled Japan during its period of horrific war-crimes. So Buddhism is fully compatible with treating China like it was an 8 year old girl in a Yakuza back room.

>>9924516
See Journey to the West, Dao and Buddhism have a close and complex relationship, which involves ex Daoists beating up Daoists with sticks.

>>9924534
As soon as he discovers Sexy Western Nun fetish.

>>9924539
DIRTY DUMB TIBETAN SCUM GO BACK TO FEUDAL OVERLORD YOU SHIT BREAK WATCHES BAD BUDDHIST

>>9924540
Humanity has never been the subject of its own existence, language is a virus that comes from outerspace.

>>9924544
Luther wants a word with you about the vitality of Catholicism as a christianity.

>>9924587
>Heaven isn't the annihilation of self and suffering.

Not the Buddhist Heavens at least. Heaven to Christians, Jews, and Muslims is certainly free from suffering.

>Luther wants a word with you about the vitality of Catholicism as a christianity.

Who gives a shit about Luther?

>>9924563

>it's one of the five major world religions

Five major world religions isn't really accurate though. It's like if you're watching a race and there's two olympic level runners and the three other guys are crippled and retarded.

Christianity and Islam just dominate the whole world, everyone else is so far behind in numbers that even making a top five list is a little silly. They just get in by default.

>>9924598
About a third of the christian confession give a shit about Luther directly, and all contemporary Catholics have effective bent to the will of his theological critique over time while retaining the funny pants.

Regarding "Heaven", Christians wish to maintain a sense that their cogito remains intact under the harsh gaze of the subjectivity of GOD. This isn't an issue for Buddhists, Buddhists would like it to please stop.

>>9924572
sux 2 b me d00d

>>9924602
>Christianity and Islam just dominate the whole world
Hah.

>>9924534
Never. ZUN hates the west.

>>9924613
the huge slice of the pie that isn't muslim or christian is just three billion indians and chinese, though, and nobody cares about them, not even other indians and chinese

>>9924622
So why has he already inserted Indo-European touhou?

>>9924613

>Splitting up different different denominations of Christianity but not splitting Islam into Sunni and Shiite.
>Putting Non-Religious and Atheist into a chart of World Religions

>>9924626
To be the constant villain.

Look at Remi. All she does is find ways to fuck over everyone else's fun.

>>9924613
Why don't they chop up the different sects of Islam and Hindus as well?

>>9924628
It's a chart of the total population of current religious individuals out of the total global population silly goose. That information is relevant.

You wish. Byakuren's days of darkness are numbered. She better be prepared to meet the light.

>>9924624
By nobody you mean yourself, right? In years time, Western civilization will be just a staple of human history, and soon China and India will both catch up influentially when everyone in there countries expand across. As each of them move out, they take their culture with them. Soon, the world will be celebrating Hiddhuist and Taoist holidays and visiting their temples.

>>9924642
Like Shintoism and Buddhism haven't been one and the same for a long time anyway. What is there for Buddhist nuns and Mikos to fight about?

>>9924645
are there even chinese taoists left

>>9924651
Yes some still follow Taoist teachings. The thing with most Asian religions though is that they're fairly fluid, so someone could identify as both a Taoist and a Buddhist. There's some degree of overlap see.

>>9924651
Yes, in many of the colonies (Chinatowns) outside of China. The People's Republic hasn't completely destroyed China's culture.

>>9924613

Christianity: 2,000,000,000
Islam: 1,600,000,000
Hinduism: 900,000,000
Buddhism: 500,000,000

All of the other religions aren't worth mentioning because they're below the 100 million mark.

You could combine Buddhism and Hinduism and it still isn't even as big as just Islam or Christianity.

>>9924666
Judaism is considered a major religion because Christianity and Islam wouldn't exist without it. They're extensions of Judaism.

>>9924666
Christianity and Islam are only huge in third-world countries. They are dieing out everywhere else. The same could be said about Hinduism as well, but Buddhism is still popular in many first-world countries. It also very flexible, and unlike other religions, many of it's teachings relate to science. In a couple generations or so, Buddhism will definitely outnumber most other religions.

>>9924650
shinto is disgusting crap
—zazen

I'm pretty sure Chinese beliefs are a bizarre hodgepodge of indigenous gods, Taoism, and Buddhism all at once.

They even have a heavenly government that also somehow answers to Buddha.

>>9924669
There are some jewish-christians though. not many, but they exist.

>>9924669

Judaism is dead though. It has less than 14 million followers and it has become so secular that most Jews don't even practice the religion and they only think of themselves as Jewish because they were born into it.

Judaism has historical relevance, but it's essentially a dead religion.

>>9924682
America is a third world country?

>>9924682
>many of it's teachings relate to science

How are other religions anti-science? You realize that not all Muslims or Christians are creationists. With Christians they're a minority, I'm not certain about Islam though.

>>9924687
> It has less than 14 million followers

That's because it's a religion for Jews and there are less than 14 million Jews, fuckstick. They don't seek converts.

>>9924666
Remember when 100% of the world was animistic?

>>9924704
Jews are the master race.

>>9924682
Then why have Christians and Muslims contributed more to science than Buddhists ever have? We could even throw Jews into that as well.

>>9924689
You jelly of our massive income gap?

>>9924704
You don't consider ontology to be science? You're not even caught up after Heidegger.

>>9924706
I don't really see why that's an issue. Over time successful people will make money and failures will continue to be poor.

>>9924690

Christianity and Islam are completely anti-science, but at this point most people have decide to just start cherry-picking the parts that they like and completely ignoring all of the huge portions of the Bible/Quran that make absolutely no sense.

>>9924712
Islam anti-science? DAAAH! Do you know how much they love Archimedes?

>>9924690
Most Western religions have to constantly change it's teaching every time some new scientific breakthrough comes out. Buddhism, however, has remained fundamentally the same since it's creation. Some people may have interpreted it differently, but the fundamentals remain the same throughout. Years from now, people will realize how much bullshit is in Western religions and either be atheist or a part of an Eastern religion.

>>9924718
If you're white and a buddhist you should probably kill yourself.

This thread is fine example. That we are nothing but ants that meido likes to chase and torture with magnifying glass.

>>9924712
>Christianity and Islam are completely anti-science

Tell me more about how you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Seriously though, in what way are either of those religions anti-science, apart from the minority of practitioners who think that the world is 6,000 years old?

>>9924723
I'm a second generation Western buddhist

>God tier
Atheistic Agnostic

>High tier
Atheist

>Mid tier
Buddhism

>Meh tier
"Don't care" people

>Low tier
Other religions

>Shit tier
Jews

>>9924690
>You realize that not all Muslims or Christians are creationists. With Christians they're a minority,
I'm assuming you don't live in the United States?

>>9924704

Christians and Muslims have contributed to science, but what have Christianity and Islam contributed to science? The religions, not the people who follow them.

I can't think of a single major intellectual activity that the church didn't try to suppress at some point. Yeah, the scientists happened to be Christians, but when modern day Christians go on about the contributions of Christian scientists they conveniently leave out the part where these same scientists were hounded by the church for doing these things.

>>9924730

>>9924690
>Religion where it is specifically stated that the deity created the world
>not all creationists
4/10
You did get me to respond, so there is that.

Remilia will decide she wants faith and to be worshiped too and show up in the new game

Would you worship Remi /jp/?

>>9924728
Who you quot?

>>9924718
>Most Western religions have to constantly change it's teaching every time some new scientific breakthrough comes out.

When has anything like that ever happened?

Now, before you start talking about Galileo, you should realize a few things. First of all, Catholics have never ascribed to a literal interpretation of the Bible. Never. Augustine is the primal Christian theologian and he mocked the idea of doing so.

Secondly, the issue around Galileo was fairly divisive in the church at the time. A few people opposed his research because they were holding to a literal interpretation of Scripture, but others embraced his findings. Galileo lived out his house arrest on the estate of one of his biggest supporters, an arch-Bishop for fuck's sake.

>>9924727
Oh and that priest in that picture there is the guy who discovered the expansion of the universe and first formulated the big bang theory which he referred to as his "hypothesis of the primeval atom."

>>9924737
WITH CHYMICAL FIRE

>>9924727
Oh yea. Though Christians were not really welcoming science since it threatened their political power. Popes. You know /jp/? Fuck this.

>>9924740
Welcome my child to the machine.

Yo, anti-Buddhists, watch dis:
http://youtu.be/ANS7Nc2B2ec

>>9924735
>but what have Christianity and Islam contributed to science? The religions, not the people who follow them.

As far as Christianity is concerned, every university in Europe was founded and maintained by the Church. All of them.

All of the original ones at least, which go back a few hundred years.

>>9924707

>>9924736
Creationists believe that God created the world in six twenty-four hour days. Other Christians and Jews and Muslims believe that God created the universe via the big bang and evolution and whatnot. Obviously there's a big fucking difference.

>>9924728
What makes Buddhism better than other religions?

Don't tell me, you know fucking nothing about Asian history and honestly think that Buddhism has never caused religious violence or been misused as a tool of oppression?

>>9924727

>Seriously though, in what way are either of those religions anti-science, apart from the minority of practitioners who think that the world is 6,000 years old?

Take your pick of any part of Genesis. People are always going on about how creationists are nutjobs, and this is true, but they're the only ones who are actually reading what is in the fucking book and not just trying to sweep it under the rug.

The bible completely throws evolution out the window, says that god pulled a rib out of Adam and used that to create the first woman, it says that humans and all animals existed at the same time, and god is just magically popping stars, animals, and plants around like he's a fucking genie.

Then eventually you get to the global flood that never actually happened. The Bible is littered with stories of impossible events that never happened and ideas that are completely absurd, but modern Christians have developed this cognitive dissonance that allows them to ignore everything that conflicts with science.

>>9924769
Buddhism is all about finding the truth. Other religions think they have found the truth, but Buddhism is different. It's essentially science in a religious and philosophical form.

>>9924769
Buddhists are currently genociding Muslims in Thailand.

Buddhism is a better religion because quite often it isn't a religion.

>>9924769
>misused as a tool of oppression
Now who would do a thing like that?

>>9924771
You need to understand that most Christians do not hold to a literal interpretation of scripture. That's actually a fairly recent development in the history of Christianity, it's tied most with the new world evangelical sects.

Catholics and the older Protestant groups have no problem treating the Genesis account of creation as an allegory or a fairy tale or something.

>>9924776
>Buddhists are currently genociding Muslims in Thailand
This makes Buddhism the best religion in my book. Killing Muslims can only be a good thing.
>>9924771
>global flood that never actually happened
You mean the one that pretty much every significant religion has a story about?

>>9924779
No, literalism GOES ALL THE WAY BACK

Literalism is one of the four obligatory interpretive modes in the standard hermeneutics.

It is you Lutherian-Calvanists that are unacceptable with your purely symbolic readings.

Catholics know Genesis is an allegory AND ALSO KNOW IT TO BE LITERAL TRUTH.

Can't you get your mind around how multiple truths coexist?

Fuck off post-cogito scum.

>>9924775
>It's essentially science in a religious and philosophical form.

If I were drinking anything I would have spit it all over my computer. Please explain to me how reincarnation and karma and all of Buddhism's various other doctrines and rituals are based on science.

>>9924776
>Buddhism is a better religion because quite often it isn't a religion.

The fact that most Buddhists are generally non-theistic does NOT mean that it isn't a religion. Non-theistic Buddhists don't straight up reject the notion of the divine, they skip over it. It's not something they want to think about because Buddha said that those kinds of questions only create confusion.

Furthermore, non-theistic Buddhists still accept things by faith.

>>9924771
Welcome to archaic languages:

The word for day and "long period of time" is the same, and can be used interchangingly.

"In the first aeon, YHWH created blah blah blah".

>>9924779
>That's actually a fairly recent development in the history of Christianity
What are the Dark Ages? What is the fall of the Roman Empire? The scriptures were only invented so that Peter and the Western disciples could oppress the Western world, and it did until the Renaissance when people stopped taking Christianity seriously and became more agnostic.

Why don't you convert to the Baha'i faith? They believe in world peace and unity among all humans and they enforce scientific progress.

>>9924797
>Catholics know Genesis is an allegory AND ALSO KNOW IT TO BE LITERAL TRUTH.

Uh, that's not what Augustine taught, and it's not what Catholics believe.

>>9924728
What necessarily makes Judaism lower than other Abrahamic religions?
Or are you just an edgy /pol/lutant that brings his bile to other boards and believes Jews secretly rule the world?

>>9924803
>They believe in world peace and unity among all humans

Disgusting.

I don't like Atheists. They're pretentious, angry, arrogant, and believe they're smarter than everyone else.They ruin words like "science", "logic", and "reason" for me, believing they're the best, the only "intelligent" group.
They don't seem like nice people.
Please don't be like that, /jp/

>>9924807
Jew Misinformant detected

>>9924797
>Can't you get your mind around how multiple truths coexist?
>multiple truths

Relativist spotted. Roman catholics gonna love you.

>>9924807
Judaism is actually the best of the Abrahamic religions, /pol/ is just asshurt.

>>9924801
No such thing as the dark ages, but a strong adherence to the teachings of the greek masters. Rather than "Enlightenment" it should have been called the "Denial". The denial of the greek teachers' ideas and philosophies.

Science does not stop for no one. Advancement continued. Any medievalist can tell you that. Zeitgeist ain't exactly a trustworthy source of information.

>>9924813
>They're pretentious, angry, arrogant, and believe they're smarter than everyone else
Sounds like every religion.

>>9924801
>What are the Dark Ages? What is the fall of the Roman Empire?

Both of those are the result of Christianity huh. In what fucking way I don't know but it makes sense to history plebs I guess because I've heard that a lot.

For your information, it was Christianity that preserved knowledge throughout the early Medieval period (which isn't called the "dark ages" anymore by real historians because of the negative connotations it implies relating to ignorance and superstition which never had anything to do with the term originally).

And during the late Medieval period the Church founded all of Europe's Universities, thereby established the modern academic system.

Oh and I'm not even going to address your claim that Christianity caused the fall of Rome because that is fucking retarded and you know it.

>>9924819
Romanticism > Enlightenment

>>9924813
There's a dictomoy between "atheists" and "angst ridden anti-theist Hitchens reading /ratheism posting edgy teenagers" anon.

>>9924820
That's what religious people think. They just can't think a human can live without religion, so of course atheism must be a religion.

Shinto is the only good belief system. They don't require you to do shit if you don't want to and there are no disadvantages to following it. Shinto > all

>>9924820
You're making it worse.

>>9924815
Did I suggest that multiple simultaneous truths were relative? The Catholic hermeneutic posits that they are each and all absolute despite contradictions.

Are you new to Theology?

>>9924833
They are the loudest of the lot though.

>>9924735
They contributed a lot to the arts, which definitely helped spur important cultural and thinking eras.
There are other things that people have done in order to spread or display Christianity. Like how much religion has spurred on and contributed to architecture. And the printing press; the first thing ever printed out of a printing press was the Bible.

>>9924815
Roman Catholics aren't all that relativist. Or is that what you're saying?

If you're not, claiming to posses "the fullness of revelation" is not a relativistic stance.

>>9924833
Hitchens was a good person, even though he was a dirty marxist.

>>9924779

>That's actually a fairly recent development in the history of Christianity

It's more of a redevelopment though. These stories were written to be taken literally and for a long time they were, eventually it got to the point where people had no choice but to see reason and justify its presence in the Bible as a story that isn't literal, but that's just an excuse.

Creationists are abnormal, most of them are just uneducated Americans from very rural areas, but what they believe isn't new. It's just strange to see people believing in such an accurate and literal interpretation of the bible in the modern world. By accurate and literal I mean completely backwards nonsense, but these stories are only fairy tales because there's no way to reconcile those stories with the knowledge we have today. Originally they were written to be taken literally because they just didn't know any better.

>>9924844
The more bigoted someone is the louder they tend to be.

TOO MUCH BIAS IN THIS THREAD!

>>9924833
They still identify as atheist. And they're still terrible people.

>>9924826
Yeah they "preserved it" from themselves. Except a lot of books were burned and lost in those ages, who knows why.

Basically they decided which knowledge should be preserved and which didn't.

Meanwhile in the arabian world they experience a golden age by taken full advantage of the ptolemaic (ie: hellenistic) knowledge they acquired by inviding egypt.

>>9924857
Humanism is Christianity with no God. Atheists once again proving they are sheep incapable of critical thinking.

>>9924814
Calling people names isn't a proper retort or answer.

This thread's moving so fast I thought I was on /b/ for a second!

>>9924855
Hitchens was no marxist, comrade.

>>9924855
>Hitchens was a good person

I've not read any of his stuff but /lit/ sure as hell doesn't think so. From what I've seen in philosophy and religion threads most every poster on /lit/ identifies as an atheist or agnostic but they fucking hate Hitchens. Apparently he's pretty arrogant.

I suppose that they mostly hate him because he's a pleb tier secular author though.

>>9924872
>In 2006, in a town hall meeting in Pennsylvania debating the Jewish Tradition with Martin Amis, Hitchens commented on his political philosophy by stating, "I am no longer a socialist, but I still am a Marxist".[65] In a June 2010 interview with The New York Times, he stated that "I still think like a Marxist in many ways. I think the materialist conception of history is valid. I consider myself a very conservative Marxist".

>>9924836
It is. Atheists believe that there is no deity of any sort. This cannot be known, thus, it requires faith.
Just as much faith as it takes to believe the opposite.
This doesn't make atheism any worse. It is simply fact.
When there is no proof or way to know positively either way, the only logical conclusion is that it could be true or it could not be, but it is beyond your capability to know: agnosticism.
Atheists who cite "pure reason" or "logic" are more disgusting to me than any sort of theist.
At least they're honest.

>>9924874
For one, Hitchens couldn't argue his way out of a shower, even if you game him a cigarette and a whiskey.

For two, Hitchens arguments are specious shit.

For three, Hitchens betrayed the project of proletarian self-emancipation.

For four, Hitchens was always a greasy snob.

>>9924871
Why would you change from Yotsuba B? Its do cozy

>>9924874
>Apparently he's pretty arrogant.

That's why I like him.

>>9924885
>proletarian self-emancipation

>>9924874
Also there's something to be said for reaching out to people with opposing viewpoints, like Jürgen Habermas here. Hitchens certainly had no intention of ever doing that. He never wanted meaningful dialogue with theists, he wanted to push over his strawmen interpretation of them.

>>9924880
qed. Thank you for demonstrating my case. Hitchens may have claimed to have used historical materialist methods; but, he lacked praxis. The simplest analogy is the "secondary". Hitchens _never held shift_.

How can anyone fall for these SCAMS if they KNOW that they are?

>>9924889
Arrogance isn't really a positive personality trait.

>>9924897
That's something a beta would say.

On Hitchens, he was in favor of invading Irak and surrounding areas because he was pro Israel (mainly because he was told he was a jew). He didn't seem to have any issue with the slaughter it caused.

I do not about you, but this does not tell me that he is a good person. I cannot rationalize genocide.

i cant wait to abuse gimmicks with whoever is the most broken character and swim in the tears of “waifu” players look forward to it op

You guys need to calm down. You're making yourselves look bad.

>>9924894
You can't be a Marxist without avowing this.

>>9924901
Am I supposed to care about a bunch of dead muslims in a desert? You liberals are such whiny faggots.

>>9924897
It is when you're intelligent enough to realize that self-confidence is only ever a good thing to project.

>>9924899
See? They even have their own little religious meetings to unify their belief system.

How do atheists solve existential crises? The resolution of which is basically what religion boils down to.

Theists believe that there is an external significance to their existence. They wouldn't think that a significance they invented for themselves is all that significant, see.

And life after death is a big issue, as is final justice. People want answers to those problems even if they have to accept them by faith rather than fact.

>>9924913
You need to suck some dick, maybe it will remind your of your mom's tits.

The problem with Buddhism is that it has become so watered down that it's not really even Buddhism anymore. The Buddhism that westerners talk about and love so much is new age Buddhism that is filtered to be easy to digest for a very secular audience.

It's easy to say that Buddhism doesn't contradict science when what you're reading doesn't really say anything about it at all. It remains as vague as possible about those things and it promotes very general and positive values like kindness and selflessness which everyone already agrees are pretty good things.

There's nothing unique about Buddhism.

>>9924882
No idiot. Faith doesn't automatically means religions. If that was true a deits would be religious too, well, that's not so, because the very definition of a deist is that they do not adhere to any religion.

On the other issue. The logic that "it can't be proved that doesn't exist, therefore you can't know if doesn't" is an incredibly retarded stance. It basically denies the relevance of reason, logic an probabilities.

I could name the russel pot, the invisible unicorn or the flying spaghetti monster. The point is the same, you cannot demonstrate in any way that they do not exist, but if you think that the probability of their existence is even remotely plausible then there's something wrong in your mind.

God can be safely assumed to be inexistent because its existence is so improbable that it isn't even worth of being considered.

>>9924916
Heavy amount of drugs, legal or otherwise.

On a more serious note, buddhism has an open door to atheists on this regard. Hell, the christian Ars Morendi can provide some answers for the not theist.

>>9924919
>See? They even have their own little religious meetings to unify their belief system.

Atheism isn't a religion but it's certainly a belief system.

>>9924916
>How do atheists solve existential crises?

I don't understand people who ask this. Why would it upset me knowing that life is meaningless? We evolved into what we are today and we wonder this earth purely by accident, but so what? You make your own meaning.

But the average person isn't capable of coming to terms with this or creating their own belief system so they cling to religion.

>>9924926
>On a more serious note, buddhism has an open door to atheists on this regard

Well neither Buddhism nor Hinduism for that matter teach that people's karma is dependent on their religious beliefs or lack thereof.

And to some Christian thinkers, atheists could have their asses covered by "invincible ignorance" and "anonymous Christianity."

>>9924931
>The logic that "it can't be proved that doesn't exist, therefore you can't know if doesn't" is an incredibly retarded stance.

That's not something actual religious thinkers cling to you realize. It's a justification for pleb theists but not people who understand their philosophy and theology.

>>9924921
Every time I suck dick it reminds me of my father's cock. What am I doing wrong?

Buddhism is just simplified Hinduism.

Why does everyone act like it's the best thing ever?

>>9924931
Right. It should also be impossible for order to originate from chaos, right?

Unless you are claiming omniscience, in which case we would have to start worshipping you.

>>9924933
>Why would it upset me knowing that life is meaningless?

Because the idea that your life is very important and that you posses an immortal soul might cheer you up some?

>>9924955
But it's delusional. At one point in my life I actually wanted to believe in God but I couldn't convince myself.

>>9924916
Humans always try to find a meaning in every thing. But the truth is that there's absolutely no meaning.

>>9924923
I like it, so fuck you

>>9924970
Immortality is the nightmare of samsara.

>>9924948
Chaos is just the name humans gave to a kind of order they do not understand.

>>9924958
And I'm absolutely about sure that.

>>9924957
Because Hinduism is the best religion if it didn't have any deities, and that's what Buddhism is.

>>9924957
Hinduism is just complexified mushroom hallucination.

>>9924958
Fuck you nihilists with a dragon dildo. You are the scum of the earth.

>>9924955
Immortality doesn't sound like a pleasant concept to me at all.

>>9924968
People who call others the scum of the earth are the scum of the earth.

>>9924948
>Right. It should also be impossible for order to originate from chaos, right?

The idea of the "unmoved mover" has really been the best evidence for God for a long time but apparently Hawking now thinks that the universe exists because it has to, because the math says so.

Other physicists disagree though, and of course Hawking hasn't proved anything related to that idea.

>>9924965
Buddhism has deities. Not all Buddhists are completely non-theistic.

And some Hindus don't treat the gods as actual beings but as archetypes.

>>9924968
I don't think there's anybody aside from religious zealots that believe in objective morality or a universal meaning of life these days. It's illogical.

>>9924931
>Faith doesn't automatically mean religo[u]s
Faith+unified belief system does.

Probability doesn't enter into it. Everything on this planet consists of an astronomical improbability on a scale you cannot even begin to comprehend.

I know I'm not a pinnacle of socially accepted sanity, but I believe nothing. The things I am sure of consist of what I am currently observing at any given moment, and even then there is room for doubt.

>>9924976
I acknowledge his truth, but I still do not believe it is possible for anything greater than our universe to NOT exist.

So you claim that it possible for life to happen by random chance, but a greater, ultimate lifeform to not be possible? How does that even work?

>>9924943
Never said otherwise, that's more an agnostic thing. I probably respect them even less than religious people.

At least religious people claim that they believe in X because they have faith.

Agnostics on the other hand believe their position is perfectly logical.
A bunch of hypocrite they are. If they're logic had any worth they should be "agnostic" about everything, instead they're making a special treatment for God, because they're simply too coward to deny what billions of people believe in.

The big problem with religion today is that you guys stopped using drugs.

What's with that? The core of religion is drug use. Spiritual beliefs can all be traced back to people that were taking drugs, starving in a desert, or in some state of mind that's going to make you start tripping.

Why do you think that Christians fasted and why many religious people will meditate in darkness for hours or beat themselves into a trance state?

You can't have religion without drugs or something that will induce a similar state of mind. You need to be in a really messed up state of mind to "connect with god" in what feels like a literal way. If you don't do that then how can you ever be extremely devout?

Believing in something that you can't see or prove becomes a lot easier once you experience a religious vision, which is just tripping.

My dad's a Jew, but you're only Jewish if your mom was a Jew. He's not religious though.

>>9925009
>So you claim that it possible for life to happen by random chance

Think of how huge the universe is. All of a sudden the chances that one planet has conditions suitable to sustain life aren't so slim.

>>9925012
>The core of religion is drug use.

The core of religion is the resolution of existential crises.

>>9925021
Drunken enraged monkeys beating on keyboards trying to write the unabridged works of Shakespeare with groups of angry gorillas running around beating some of them into a bloody pulp.

Protip: Infinity does not exist.

>>9925010
See:
>>9924988
Specifically, about not taking anything at all on faith.

>>9925036
Cool.

What I said still stands.

>+ 163 posts and 22 image replies omitted. Click here to view.
I hate all of you.

>>9924966
I love looking a picture of Hindu gods and goddesses. Its so tripy, its fucking amazing and scary at the same time. love it

>>9925045
The random chance that gave life in this planet is also the same chance that turned Venus into a boiling acid storm, Mars into a desolate wasteland, or the whatever was there into the asteroid belt. It's all I'm saying.

Chances for massive screw ups are also high. We are probably the luckiest sonsabitches in the entire galaxy.

>>9925055
/jp/ is the only place where you'd start a thread about flying little girls beating the shit out of each other and get back a complete and extensive discussion on religion and history.

>>9925055
WHERE IS YOUR FAITH IN GENSOKYO NOW YOUKAI SCUM?

>>9925071
>complete and extensive discussion on religion and history
>Thread mostly consists of thinly veiled "NO U"

>>9925080
Nope, the tu quoques are low in this thread. It is mostly strawmen and ad hominem.

>>9925022

You can't resolve an existential crisis by just intentionally tricking yourself into believing something. It doesn't work like that, you need evidence of something spiritual in order to feel confident in your belief, otherwise you will know that it's a load of bullshit. It's like telling yourself that you have six fingers, you can tell yourself that as much as you want, but you won't believe it until you see six fingers on your hand.

Drugs or any way of inducing that state of mind were always the easiest way to accomplish this. It was as much evidence as they needed. For example, I used to be a complete atheist, didn't think there was a God at all, and then I took a pretty big dose of mushrooms and that overwhelming experience of feeling like I was in the presence of God just instantly started to override everything I believed.

Feeling something is far more profound than hearing about it. It's very difficult to be religious if you haven't felt God. I've heard about religion my whole life and the idea of God never worked for me, his existence just didn't make sense to me even though I wanted it to, but then I felt God and that was all it took.

>>9925080
HO QUOT??

>>9925086
>You can't resolve an existential crisis by just intentionally tricking yourself into believing something. It doesn't work like that, you need evidence of something spiritual in order to feel confident in your belief, otherwise you will know that it's a load of bullshit. It's like telling yourself that you have six fingers, you can tell yourself that as much as you want, but you won't believe it until you see six fingers on your hand.

I guess you haven't met any American Christians.

Nothing proves to me the existence of the gods than the passionate arguments of people either in favor or against their existence.

We just can't help ourselves.

Unless "Faith" is a natural advantage for human beings. I seriously don't see a need for it, from an evolutionary POV.

>>9925086
You are discounting the common philosophical revelation that leads to unsubstantiated faith.
Why is that?

>>9925110
>Unless "Faith" is a natural advantage for human beings. I seriously don't see a need for it, from an evolutionary POV.

Some anthropologists believe that religion was the foundation of group cohesiveness and that without it we'd still be living in the caves. I think that it was Geertz or maybe someone else who said that "religion is society." Geetrz was secular by the way.

>>9925110
Evolutionarily, religion is a factor that prevents societies from breaking down by having an axiomatic set of morals to hold it together.

Fuck you meido.

>>9925099

Many of them do this same thing though. You won't see them taking drugs in church, but the music, the practices they do in church, etc. It's all identical to practices in early tribal religions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPpjURtM5OI

Just look at this. The music, the chanting, the dancing, the crazy displays of people falling around and talking in gibberish. All of this works to incite the entire crowd into a wild religious frenzy and they are in an ecstatic trance state of mind.

>>9925121
See, the idea is that religion is the ideological glue that made humans stop acting like pack animals and start forming actual societies.

Other Anthropologists (like uh, what's his name, D-something) have argued that religion came about because humans formed complex societies but Geertz says that would be impossible without religion in the first place.

>>9925128
The OP has a Touhou in it. It's /jp/-related.

>>9925124
Aren't norms of behavior, manners and morals common sense?

As a theist, I do believe that people can be good without God. If religion is needed, then you are telling me you are blind children needing to be guided.

>>9925121
>>9925124
>>9925136

Does Dawkins ever even address this notion? Certainly religions isn't merely an ideological cancer if it's the foundation of, or at least is important to the foundation of, human civilization.

Like with Hitchens /lit/ usually says that Dawkins is full of shit, even though they're mostly atheists, as I said.

The Bible is a lot like Touhou.
All those people painting biblical events and figures are just some of the first fan artists and doujin artists. Religious work in Museums are essentially elaborate doujin work and fanart on display. All the different saints and important figures are just different Touhous, some artists just had a certain Saint or Apostle as their favorite Touhou.
All those orchestras and music pieces inspired by religion are like Touhou arranges.
All the spin-off biblical literature and books and other such like the Genesis are like the spin-off mangas and fan books.
And most of all, most followers are secondaries and don't even read the source materials.

>>9925145
>If religion is needed, then you are telling me you are blind children needing to be guided

Pretty much. The average person is pretty fucking stupid.

>>9925145
I'm not saying religion isn't necessary.
But that doesn't make it true.
But not being true doesn't make it any less important for people to believe in.

The idea that people naturally know right from wrong being what most theists believe seems to be counter-intuitive to me.
If people are inherently moral, then there is no need for religion to guide them.

>>9925145
> I do believe that people can be good without God.

Me too but religion offers a real incentive to be good. God's indignation and karma and whatnot.

I don't understand how some atheists can believe that people can be more moral without religion. What's the incentive to be good? The knowledge that society will prosper if all the pieces work well together? That's all well and good I suppose but there's going to be some conflict between what's best for me and what's best for everyone eventually. If I don't believe that I'm going to be punished by God or the divine reality at the heart of the cosmos then I'm probably going to choose what's best for me.

>>9925150
Fucking secondaries, won't leave even my religion alone.

>>9925173
And you are the type of person that needs religion.
Society is built on an elaborate illusion that requires belief to function.
Whether the illusion is the society, the belief, or the religion depends on your opinion.

>>9925164
All civilizations reached the consensus for common decency (through religion, but still). There might be some truth behind that.

>>9925173
> If I don't believe that I'm going to be punished by God or the divine reality at the heart of the cosmos then I'm probably going to choose what's best for me.

Just because there is no religion doesn't mean there aren't laws. But I tend to agree that most people need some sort of belief system handed to them in order to keep them in check.

>>9925206
>Just because there is no religion doesn't mean there aren't laws.

Yeah but when one knows that they can get around those laws they have no reason to behave morally. The idea with God's righteous anger and karma is that you can't get around it.

>>9925206
But religion provides a moral structure for these laws. Laws reflect the moral code of a society. The morals are a result of religion.
Without religion, there is nothing to base the laws on.

You start out with a perfect chance of being reborn in Gensokyo.
Every impure thing you do lowers your chance.
Being nice increases your chances.
This is the way.

>>9925217
>But I tend to agree that most people need some sort of belief system handed to them in order to keep them in check.
>But I tend to agree that most people need some sort of belief system handed to them in order to keep them in check.

>>9925223
Religion isn't just a tool for controlling people. Although obviously all religions have been used for that purpose.

>>9925221
We have a perfectly valid religion right here.

>>9925230
Yes it is. It's a tool used to keep people in line by giving them an objective morality to adhere to.

>>9925221
More like:
You start out with a perfect chance of being reborn in Gensokyou.
Every time you stress out your chances lower.
Every time you take it easy your chanses raise.
Yukkuri Shiteitte ne

>>9925236
This is the truth.

>>9924682
But first world countries are reproducing less and less, while the third world continues to multiply faster than rabbits.

Buddhism isnt even a religion

>>9925533
You're right. It's even better than one.

>>9924666

Christianity and Islam are split into many sub-groups though. That often hate each other with passion.

Besides, numbers like those are not the true sign of influence over the world.

Who gives a crap about all those overpopulated muslim shitholes where people breed like rats?

Parts of the world that matter are USA, EU, Japan, China, Russia and soon Brazil.

While Isalm worshipers are numerous they have no real influence over the world as a whole. Except few oil princes. And being the pretext for western invasions.

>>9924776
>Buddhists are currently genociding Muslims in Thailand

Shame whole world isn't.

Muslims are the scourge of the modern world.