/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Let's report Tokiko alias Unnamed Book-Reading Youkai !denX47.muQ!!XUU92Uht5OG

I've written many posts related to the spellcard system but personally I feel like ZUN should show us at least a few battles involving no spellcards at all. It was stated in PMiSS that battle between stronger youkai are completely different from usual battles, with rules being estabilished even before the conflict. One would imagine that when Yukari fought against Ran (at least it's implied that she fought, so she could dominate her), both of them have fought in that high level battle. Also, I'm pretty sure that the PC-98 battles aren't based on the spellcard rules, and honestly they don't look that interesting. But maybe that's because ZUN didn't really give a serious thought about how touhou characters really fight. Although with much more freedom at that time, the characters and the world surely looked much more interesting than what it is now (I feel like some may want to kill me because I think this, but really, PC-98 Makai, those old ruins where Yumemi showed up, Heaven in HrtP look much more interesting than a fucking devil mansion with vampire twins or a mountain filled with crow-women and three religious nutjobs.

I don't know that much about it.
But from what I understand, it prevents all the 2hus I shoot to death from actually dying. And if that's the case, how does it stop their various evil plans? Couldn't they just get back up and proceed as usual?

And can anybody create and use a spellcard or just select few?

>>9620025
You create your own spellcards. They have only one purpose, but like Marisa said, each one of them have their own beauty and uniqueness. Or else she wouldn't write a fucking book about it.

>>9620026
Right, but what I'm asking is if absolutely anyone create one?
Say you die and show up in gensokyo, can you just pull a spellcard out of your ass to make sure you don't become a youkai's snack?

>>9620025
According to PMiSS the Spellcard "Law" os that if all of your spellcards are defeated you lose the duel, regardless of how much strength you have remaining.
That still doesn't really explain why someone can't just say "screw the rules I have power" and fuck everyone's stuff up. Maybe if someone did, everyone else would gang up on them?
Maybe there's some very special spell placed all over Gensokyo that would somehow prevent anyone from breaking the rules.

>>9620037
Well, consider that Reimu has her own spellcards because she's the Hakurei shrine maiden, and it's implied that she's the one that created the spellcard system. Now, Marisa knows a lot about magic (although not a magician because she's not a youkai yet), so she can pull of and create a few spellcards too. Now for a human that has no magical experience or any kind of abnormal power, I do not know how would one create a spellcard. I can only imagine that firstly you need to channel your soul's power into a card, spell the name of it (it must be a beautiful name), and then evoke the crazy beams. Although from what I can guess from Marisa's book, it seems that those lazers on Touhou aren't actually what's attacking you. For example, I think that Kanako has a spellcard that actually throws some kind of rice against you, but they are depicted as just your usual lasers in the game.

>>9620037
Pretty much. You can write a spellcard where you just literally throw potatoes and it'd be all fine and dandy. (Minoriko Aki)

>>9620052
But again, if character X did not actually die when I shot them down, couldn't they just continue their plan.

>>9620086
Right. Just as I said. It's a bit of a plothole that either has already been covered up and hasn't reached the ears of the west, or it hasn't and really needs ZUN's explanation.

>>9620064
But what exactly is involved in making one. Do you need tools? Materials? Some kind of fucking cookbook?

I doubt the dead are instantly blessed with such knowledge the second they cross over.

>>9620086
Well, you consider that there would be plans to begin with. Gensokyo is pretty small, and it's currently living a state of peace. It'd take a big phenomenon and a character that truly has evil intentions in her heart for a serious incident to happen. So far, no incident was actually made with an evil purpose. Remillia wanted to have fun, Yuyuko wanted to gather spring and revive someone, Kaguya wanted to hide from the lunarians, Komachi was just slacking off, Kanako wanted to gather more faith, etc. The spell card system works exactly because Gensokyo just needs a few incidents to stay in balance, that meaning that human and youkai still must battle, since this was the essence of the world before that illusion boundary that yukari put up a long time ago. (not even talking about Hakurei Barrier)

>>9620100
Considering that fucking Okuu, that lived in hell for such a long time, knew about spellcards, I think that either Reimu explains to her how it works, and gives the oponent a few magical cards so her opponent can channel their magic, or they just... Magically know. Either this is a plothole or I'm lacking some knowledge that has been clarified in some medium that I have not yet read (maybe WaHH).

>>9620100
it just needs to be written on paper is all.
It's really just a formal declaration of what your attack is going to be. You're not allowed to attack someone unprovoked, and you can't attack at full power.

>>9620107
>>9620107
I kinda doubt that, since danmaku came together with paper, and since danmaku does vary from character to character, there must be some kind of magic channeling in it. Or I'm mistaken.

>>9620107
So I just need to write "i throw nukes at u" on paper or is it some cool-ass design that's needed?

>>9620123
Forgot to add that there is a relation between danmaku and lasers too, even if not all danmaku is related with it (assuming that GoM's illustrations are canon).

Ban evasion is a bannable offense, Tokiko.

>>9620147
shut up I'm not evading.

>>9620147
All post within this topic expect yours have been detailed discussion on aspects of lore.
If you consider that shitposting, I think you need to find another board.

>>9620151
I'm not Tokiko either.

>>9620157
>If you consider that shitposting, I think you need to find another board.
When did I ever say that? I'm just not very fond of Tokiko and his gang still posting on this board.

Hi
I am Tokiko and I like cocks

So instead of getting banned for ban evasion and constant flooding the board with shit, his thread gets cleaned up by the janitor.
RIP /jp/

Oh cool, a lore thread.
So if Gensokyo only existed for about 1000 years, where did the dead go before that?
And do only believers in shinto go to gensokyo, or is it every dead person, regardless of race, creed, etc?

>>9620187
gensokyo is not an underworld what are you talking about.

>>9620187
I can just guess that Gensokyo's hell works for both worlds.

>>9620187
You need look no further than the Scarlet Devil Mansion to hit your second question's answer.

Who's the most powerful being in the 2hu universe? I always thought it was the Dragon God, but another anon said that apparently wasn't true(that they only respected him).

To expand on that question, who is the Dragon God and what is his position in the series?

>>9620305
As far as I know he's pretty much the creator of Gensokyo and these things. I would likely assume that he lives in a palace, and since Iku can speak the language of dragons and she's the messenger of the palace, that implies that there are more dragons, because it wouldn't make sense to have a language that only the messengers and the dragon itself can speak. And I think I've heard an anon talking about that Tenshi and Iku live in the Moon. I don't remember exactly his logic but parting from that idea, it would make sense to imagine that the Dragon is one of the Gods of the moon, and the one that is responsible for Gensokyo. Although the possibility of heaven being completely separated from moon stands, as long as no one presents a concrete proof that denies the previous statement. But all I've said is pretty much speculation. Who knows what ZUN has in mind.

>>9620305
His position? Highest of all the gods in Gensokyo.
He's never made an appearance, he's only been talked about by some characters.
Ryuujin is like THE god of Gensokyo.

>>9620313
>>9620316
So getting back to the first question, is he the de-facto most powerful 2hu?

If he ever appears, what kind of dragon do you think Zun will design him as? Eastern or western?

>>9620327
Well, consider that Yorihime and Toyohime are extremely strong, and will unlikely ever show up in a game. Now consider that this Dragon God is even stronger, and has only appeared above Gensokio, soaring throughout the skies very few times (the last one being when the hakurei border was created). So, I can only imagine him appearing in a manga like WaHH or something like that. Also it will very probably be a girl, if it happens.

>>9620344
>Also it will very probably be a girl
I don't know why but I think I'd be disappointed if that happened.

>>9620344
>it will be a girl

I know it's Touhou, but wouldn't that remove any feeling of omnipotence and mysticism? I mean, this is more or less ZUN's version of Marvel's Living Tribunal.

>>9620344
>Also it will very probably be a girl, if it happens.
Nah. It'll only be a girl if it gets featured on the game.

>>9620373
>>9620367
Well, the reason to why I think it will be a girl is just because that the de facto leader of Gensokyo is a woman (Yukari), the yama of Gensokyo is a woman too, the leader of the taoist faction, the 2 princesses of the moon, the ex-princess of the moon, etc., etc. etc. So logically ZUN would make an intimidating and very mature-looking woman. Although I have this feeling that the dragon, if he does show up, will be a man.

>>9620385
>will be a girl
>will be a man

Here's an idea, what if it's a fucking dragon?

>>9620392
Hmm, but aren't all of the best youkai in their personified forms? Or maybe a dragon that transforms into a girl could work. Also, seeing how he did add information about Kappa and Oni later, based on the contents of PMiSS, the possibility of the Dragon God appearing on a game is still out there.

>>9620395
Oops, I mean, beast youkai.

>>9620395
But why would he need to personify? He's fucking god.
Honestly, I can see an eastern/chinese design happening as far as the body goes, but god fucking damnit I prefer western.

Also, isn't it genderless in the first place?

>>9620397
Considering that the only youkai that aren't personified are like...Unzan and Genji, and that tree, best works too.

>>9620397
Considering that the only youkai that aren't personified are like...Unzan and Genji, and that fucking tree, best works too.

>>9620409
I totally am seeing Rayquaza when I thing about Ryuujin.

>>9620187
Higan is separate from Gensokyo and is confirmed to exist pre-border, and is also confirmed to take the outside world's dead.

I don't think the spell card rules have a legitimate plothole just because all that may be needed is for the person to "keep going after they're beaten". Besides the reason that they will probably be busted the fuck out of if they break the duel terms and whatnot, the simple answer is that nobody powerful in Gensokyo has such unrefined malicious intentions and nobody will likely ever be written who will. There is no plothole if every character follows the rules by default. Utsuho's dialogue was the closest to actual destruction and that ended up not being the real intention. Tenshi actually did end up destroying things and later stopped when she lost. Seiga is currently one of the most malicious characters and she still stops when defeated. Toyohime accepted the nonlethal danmaku rules even when she was the one being invaded.

>>9620416
I'm thinking either this(from FYIAD: The game) or the final boss from Monster Hunter Portable 3rd.

>>9620434
>stops when defeated

But that's not how antagonists work.

>>9620440
Gensokyo doesn't have true antagonists thankfully.

The only actual evil entity in Gensokyo is the Saigyou Ayakashi.
Note how it's sealed up.

>>9620449
Antagonist don't have to be evil, though. Just have goals that oppose the protagonist's own.

I guess where I'm ultimately getting at is that almost every action in every game seems irrelevant due to the spellcard system.

>>9620440
>>9620416
His appearance will be a fierce dragon in an out-of-place frilly dress.

I'm fucking calling it right now.

>>9620462
that's just silly.

>>9620455
Nobody actually has any goals that are both harmful/annoying and unable to be solved any other way. Remilia's goal was trounced but it was silly and whimsical in the first place, Saigyou Ayakashi didn't bloom but Yuyuko didn't really care that much anyways, Suika succeeded, Eirin's plan somewhat succeeded but it was redundant to begin with, Komachi being lazy isn't even a thing, Kanako's appearance means squat and she's given up enveloping Hakurei Shrine, Tenshi had Reimu beat her up, Utsuho came to her senses, the evil spirit problem hasn't been completely dealt with, Byakuren's appearance means squat, Miko's appearance means squat.

currently gensokyo's incidents are a whole bunch of nothing

>>9620025
>Couldn't they just get back up and proceed as usual?

But they do. Only 1cc can stop them.

>>9620191
I'm guessing all those portal threads must have messed up with some people's minds. It wouldn't be strange to think Gensokyo is supposed to be some kind of an afterlife when so many people appear to believe just that.

>>9620313
>I don't remember exactly his logic

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Symposium_of_Post-mysticism/Interview

"ZUN said so". The strongest logic there is.

>>9620373
>wouldn't that remove any feeling of omnipotence

I think you're being sexist. Those things are not related to shape or gender.

>>9620395
>>9620397
Clarification was unnecessary. Beast youkai are best youkai.

>>9620449
>The only actual evil entity in Gensokyo is the Saigyou Ayakashi.

Technically, most youkai are evil by design and definition. They just don't act on it.

>>9620848
>Technically, most youkai are evil by design and definition. They just don't act on it.

That's why the extinction of youkai could be viewed as a boon for humanity, I suppose.

>>9620862
But they WERE being extinct, as science explained more and more of the phenomena that made them live. That's why the elders had Yukari (is she one of them? I don't fucking know) create the border.

I'd guess the humans who stayed in, the "youkai hunter's descendants" were just guys who knew magic and would rather live in a mystical bubble world than anything.

>>9624606
Nitori needs to be stopped.
She's going to be the death of all youkai possibly including herself.

Maybe that Hakutaku too. Youkai thrive on fear and ignorance. If the humans are learnéd, then that could be a problem unless she's feeding them misinformation.

>>9625259
The kappa just use pseudo-science. Like 40k orcs or something.

And don't you dare suggest such things about Keine.

>>9625275
What things? That she's misinforming her students for self-preservation of her kind?
I'm sorry if I touched a nerve Anonymous.

>>9625388
>her kind
You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?

>>9625401
I guess not.

>>9625275
I don't know much about w40k so I don't quite understand.
Could you give another example?

>>9628402
Their science may not be legit, but it works for them just because they believe it does. That's their magic - and they're not aware of it.

>>9620125
>>9620123
>>9620100
It is not clear, all that was ever mentioned about it was ''go ask reimu'' in PMiSS.

Probably something along the words of charms and shit.

>>9620776
Most incidents were potentially deadly, actually. Reading the books show you that, Remilia's mist blocked out the sun and would have destroyed plant-life eventually, Yuyuko literally sucked out Spring from existence, Kanako wanted to take over Reimu's shrine, Utsuho wanted to kill everything and everyone above-ground so she could make a new Hell, Tenshi was creating earthquakes for the sake of boredom.

Also Miko and Byakuren acted like religious nutbags when you face them so they would've done some crazy ass shit like human sacrifice should they hadn't been spanked.

>>9628486
The problem with Yuyuko's whim wasn't spring, since it would start again as soon as she was over with the resurrection. The problem was that if she resurrected the fucking murderer overpowered youkai tree shit wouldn't be just cold. And there's no way to know what would happen to her if she found out her own body, since Yukari makes such a big deal out of it.

But that's all averted just because Reimu wasn't happy with extra cold time. I guess that's kinda the charm.

>>9628486
>Also Miko and Byakuren acted like religious nutbags when you face them so they would've done some crazy ass shit like human sacrifice should they hadn't been spanked.
Yeah, no.