/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Stockholm's

By choice. It's assumed it's out of respect for Remilia, but it's also possible she's manipulated by Remilia's powers.

Remilia made it her fate to stay in the basement forever.

She holds no animosity towards the residence of SDM and really she couldn't be made to be there against her will so I'd say she's just a shut-in. They've made use of her when she was needed to crush the meteor just like they made use of Patchy when they needed to go to the moon.

Also it's worth noting that in the Inaba comic Flandre didn't go to the party Remi thew but hid in the back halls and bullied the bunnies when they wandered over there.

if remilia is so powerful and smart why cant she manipulate fate to make her win at everything forever

Remilia is austrian

>>9376236

Ever since Reimu interacted with Remi her fate was forever changed. Everything that has transpired is a part of Remilia's grand scheme.

>>9375570
>it's also possible she's manipulated by Remilia's powers.
Flandre is stronger than Remilia.

>>9376236
Flandre pretty much says that Remilia either is just making shit up or is not nearly so in control as she implies. Remember, if Remilia had the power she says she does she would never have needed Flandre to save their house.

>>9376236
Spell card rules. All Gensokyo residents follow them to maintain it's tranquility. Yes, we all know realistically this would never be feasible, but that's why it's a fantasy land.

>>9376279
That article makes it seem like Flandre is either autistically unfiltered in what she says or she's just a smartass. I'd like to think it's the latter.

>>9376304
Either way, it's clear she is not actually prevented from the leaving the house, which means she chooses not to, even if it is not quite clear why.

ZUN needs to touch on SDM again. There's too much left unexplained about the characters and I know he wanted to say more about Sakuya.

>>9376334
As it stands, there is little need for them to be directly involved unless he plays off some child-like whims of the vampires to get involved in some large event or another.

>>9376334
Sakuya is one of the more fleshed out touhous, I think she's fine.

>>9376287
As I recall, spell card rules are only applicable as a means of formal conflict resolution between two or more powers, be they human, youkai, or whatever else you care name. So, within the context of a spell-card duel, Remilia's manipulation of fate would be barred by the mechanics of the system itself rather than any greater power or enforcer, but when not constrained by the system is free to use her power as she sees fit. Of course, given that fate is a rather tricky concept, and given that I suspect that Remilia is mostly full of shit, I'd say it isn't all that big of a deal, and if she too greatly upsets the balance of power with fate-tinkering then someone-or-other will stop along to defeat her in a duel.

>>9376365
The incident in which Flandre denies Remilia's power happens outside of the bounds of spellcard rules; they confirm to Aya that it was an explicit assault on the SDM from people who were in Japan a very long time ago, which would be before the spellcard rules were in place.

>>9376318
>>9376304
>>9376318

Actually from that article I got the impression that Remilia manipulated the meteor to crash in the mansion so Flandre would have something to destroy, so in a sense SDM was never in any danger at all.

>>9376380
Yeah but that was just Remi trying to make it look like she wasn't depending on Flan to save herself and her property. It's a pride thing and Flan called her out on it.

>>9376374
Oh, no, I realize that. I was expanding upon the post I was responding to rather than arguing against it. So, yes, given that a meteor exists beyond the bounds of spell-card rules, she could attempt to manipulate its fate.

>>9376241
French most likely.

>>9376469
But they clearly did very little to help, because it was coming straight at her house regardless until her little sister went out and broke it. Of course she would claim she wanted that to happen, just imagine what a blow to your pride that would be.

Why would Patchouli have to summon rain around the mansion to keep Flandre from visiting the shrine if Flandre chose to be a shut-in?

Maybe Remilia actually has no control over fate at all and just claims to have it.

>>9377254
IIRC in CiLR someone says that the rocket wouldn't have made it without Remilia's power.

>>9376259
You don't need to be stronger than someone to manipulate them.

Maybe just Flandre fears her sister and thinks she is stronger than her when she isn't.

>>9377276
Well, that shows us that she is such a good liar that she even manages to convince other people of her "ability" without even bringing it up herself

>>9377297
Unless it was in the last chapter which was narrated directly by ZUN. That may or may not be the case, though. Someone would have to check.

>>9377289
It seems to me that Flandre has some deal of respect for her sister, but likes to mock her anyway, and you don't usually mock people you fear.

>>9376318
Isn't it canon that she was kept as a dirty little secret because she was too strong and dangerous?
She probally simply got used to a life in solitude and is emotionally and sociably underdeveloped

>>9377414
Patchy was flipping her shit in EoSD's Extra stage because Flandre wanted to go out, so maybe.

>>9377412
Then, maybe she really loves Remilia and thinks she does what she does on her behalf. (Yeah, there may be other selfish reasons that Flan ignores).

>>9377441
It's just conjecture, and I feel uncomfortable discussing it too thoroughly because I'm working off of a translation of the text and not the source material directly.

Her profile implies its both.
>She's kind of nuts so she isn't usually taken out of the mansion. She also doesn't try going out.

>>9377478
Looking at the source in Japanese we can see some details like her calling Remilia お姉さま when she isn't around but あいつ when she is.

>>9376259
Flandre is more destructive and dangerous than Remilia, not necessarily stronger. Even if she was, that has nothing to do with "fate manipulation".

>>9376279
Even if Remilia doesn't have nearly the amount of control over her ability as she implies, Flan saying she doesn't means absolute squat. It's implied that Remilia fated the meteor to launch at the SDM "coincidentally" when Flan was the only one outside and available at the time.

>>9376394
Again, Flan "calling her out" doesn't mean anything if she's oblivious to how much influence Remilia actually holds. While I agree that Remilia would do that sort of thing, the existence of that story itself is enough to question how much Flan actually realizes.

>>9377414
Not really. Flan comes out pretty often and is stated to show up at parties, which alludes to her not being some SDM secret closet thing.

>>9377188
>Why would Patchouli have to summon rain around the mansion to keep Flandre from visiting the shrine if Flandre chose to be a shut-in?
First of all, if Flandre doesn't often leave the mansion in the first place, her attempting to leave is fairly unprecedented and worth alarm considering how dangerous she can be. The reason Flandre wanted to leave was so she could meet the people her sister fought, since they were supposed to be interesting. "Coincidentally", Remilia wasn't at the mansion to calm her down, she was at the Hakurei Shrine to get Reimu/Marisa to go over, and Patchy making it rain means Remilia couldn't go back. It's a bit complicated, but you could easily argue that it was fated so that Flandre could play with the people who were actually able to play with Remilia. Or it's just coincidence.

>>9377742
>Not really. Flan comes out pretty often and is stated to show up at parties, which alludes to her not being some SDM secret closet thing.
It's stated that there are many parties at the SDM and that Flandre usually avoids them

>>9377742
>Not really. Flan comes out pretty often and is stated to show up at parties, which alludes to her not being some SDM secret closet thing.
These statements conflict with both her EoSD profile and PMiSS. She also didn't even go to her own sister's part in SSiB.

EoSD profile
>She's kind of nuts so she isn't usually taken out of the mansion. She also doesn't try going out.

PMiSS
>She has few friends even among the youkai of the Scarlet Devil Mansion, and spends most of her time in isolation.
>Even her older sister Remilia is seldom seen together with her.
>As a result, much about her is shrouded in mystery.

>>9377742
Flandre can destroy everything.

She's stronger than Remilia.

>>9377810

I don't expect Akyuu to know anything about Flandre's relationship with SDM.

>>9377826
I would trust ZUN, though.
Also Akyuu interviewed Reimu and Marisa who are pretty familiar with the residents as well as an anonymous partygoer (I can't figure out who it is yet, though).

>>9377810
I didn't mean she leaves the mansion or is an active presence in the mansion, she just doesn't stay in her room constantly like most people think. Even though people don't come into contact with her often, I doubt she's kept a secret or anything like that.

>>9377919
Yes, this is accurate. Flandre is occasionally spotted wandering around inside the mansion, especially by people straying from the party. Flandre's dialogue and her behavior during parties also indicates that she likes to spy on people when they visit the mansion.

It always seemed to me that Flandre was just okay with staying inside. Maybe out of respect for her sisters wishes, maybe she knows how dangerous she can be, or maybe she's just naturally a shut-in.

The Ex-stage generally comes off as an unusual circumstance. They're not used to the idea of Flandre wanting to go out and play, and they go into a panic trying to stop her out of fear of what might happen.

I seriously doubt any of them have the means to keep Flandre actually imprisoned in the Mansion.

>>9376334

Problem is that they're so exposed already that people would just bitch endlessly about ZUN expanding on them even more, despite the fact that half the household members are little more than background characters.

What I would personally like to see is just something along the lines of the gathering in SoPM. Just the characters talking and interacting with one another.

>>9378079
>I seriously doubt any of them have the means to keep Flandre actually imprisoned in the Mansion.
Patchouli is capable of doing so. She is an elemental magician and since vampires have many weaknesses she can easily defeat them. At least this is what she claims.

>>9378218
I think a lot of people want ZUN to explain Sakuya's back-story, since he said that he had meant to do so a really long time ago.

>>9378278

>Patchouli is capable of doing so. She is an elemental magician and since vampires have many weaknesses she can easily defeat them. At least this is what she claims.

Eh, I wonder about that, she seemed really off her game in EoSD's extra, the only event we know of that Flandre actually wanted to go out. She wouldn't be able to hold herself in a Danmaku duel either, I don't see why Flandre couldn't simply challenge her and demand her to stop rain/etc, much alike Reimu defeating Remilia to force her to stop the red mist.

In the end of things I don't think that Flandre could be kept locked away even if SDM members wanted that, which is why I think fannon representations of Flandre being imprisoned are really off.

About exposition, ZUN seems to like to let Touhou be explored in other ways, hence the various manga, books and the fighters. It's possible that one day we'll get a game that will be able to explore the characters better than shooters and fighters can, something like an adventure game or an RPG.

>>9378353
Yeah, Touhou seems to favor a more personal experience. At least that's how it looks to me.

All I ever knew in as canon in regards to Flandre is that she's a 495 year old vampire kept inside the Scarlet Devil Mansion due to her bouts of insanity. Remilia, Patchouli, Sakuya, and the protagonists of Mist of Scarlet Devil are the only ones who know of her existence to the full extent, though I think it fair to assume that Yukarin does also. It is said she knows absolutely nothing about the outside, yet has expressed interest in finding out. I also believe that at one point Patchouli called a rainstorm to occur which successfully diverted Flandre from leaving the mansion. Although she has the express weakness of vampires, I do believe she can touch holy symbols without pain.

Pretty much all I know about her. Touhou is perhaps not the most elaborate when it comes to explaining characters, but it thankfully gives you a good template so that fans can develop upon them as they see fit.

>>9378513
>495 year old vampire kept inside the Scarlet Devil Mansion due to her bouts of insanity

But that's not confirmed anywhere.
She's not exactly normal, but also not a unpredictable killer machine

>>9378562
Fair enough it was an overexaggeration. I think the more accurate way of explaining it is that she's overly emotional, ignorant, and incredibly strong. Which combines to make her unintentionally deadly.

In other words she's no insane. In a lot of ways she's only dangerous as she is largely due to lack of information in regards to herself and everything around her.

Mind you, due to the lack of information on Flandre in general, we are more or less left to our own devisings. Which is to say, this is just as likely as the next guy's theory.

>>9378513
>Pretty much all I know about her. Touhou is perhaps not the most elaborate when it comes to explaining characters
That's all you know about her because you probably haven't read all there is to offer, though. The stories and such are sometimes quite elaborate, but it doesn't seem as if you knew about the other things presented in this thread.

Also, here's another thing I like to bring up in Flandre discussion. There's probably some wish-washy things said, but this is a condensed version of how I see Flandre through canon elements.
pastebin.com/332KySY4

>>9378763
>Of course, this would break the spell card rules

I'm not sure how much she actually cares. Marisa said something about this.

>A super high-density spell card. At this level, it isn't a game at all.
>Now, it's a forbidden move. Just like forbidden fruit.

>>9378562
She is a psychotic killing machine, but not in the grimdark edgy sense.
More along the lines of a child getting too carried away with things.

>>9378802
She is excitable, powerful and childish. It means she does fun things if given the oppurtunity.

>>9378808
Right, but her social retardation doesn't exactly filter what things are okay to have fun with and what's not okay.

You could call it autism.

>>9378824
Does it really matter? As long as it is fun, it is good.

>>9378831
That kind of logic is going to get you locked up in the basement, son.

>>9378839
That explains nothing, so I think I should just assume you have no reasonable counter-argument.

>>9378846
She would destroy everything in sight, you delusional twat. Or worse.

>>9378877
But if it's fun, that's what's important.

>>9378792

StB and DS spellcards are said to be used in festivals and not real duels since they are unfair. Even Flandre must abide to those rules.

>>9380484
Sorry for the late reply. Remember that Flandre uses that in a proper spellcard match. She was just cheating with that, if you take Marisa's word for it.

>>9382413

I'm not sure if I'd consider the cards in GoM to have been used in valid occasions. IIRC there were other cards from StB and DS there, such as the notorious 9-6.

I could be wrong though, it's been a while since I read it.

>>9382502
It was used in Shoot the Bullet, where Aya was trying to take pictures of Danmaku. Though, it could be argued that if she was really trying to break the rules it would be much harder to avoid. The rules of Danmaku, according to GoM, are to avoid getting hit. A fun person might instead say it's to survive.

So let's say Remilia is fated to stay alive as long as she pleases. How can Flandre destroy her?

>>9382557
I would argue it less ``how'' and more ``why.'' But, she has the power to destroy anything, and since you can define the concept of fate, it is a thing, and thus unable to stop her from destroying Remilia, and since you can define the concept of Remilia, she is a valid target. That aside, that is the entire point of the spellcard rules; avoiding such situations.