/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Laziness?

Are you retarded?

>>9361793
Yeah I think so but that still doesn't answer my question.
>>9361787
I don't know.

I've always found it funny that /jp/ picks up studying a language in their 20s.
I would wager that barely anyone who starts learning a language after the age of 15 ever becomes entirely proficient in that language.

Stop posting on /jp/ and jump on it jump on it

I have 500 kanji that need review but I keep putting it off.

>>9361824
I say you're wrong

>>9361824
You are wrong.

How does it feel that I know 1300 kanji along with onyomi and kunyomi meanings in which I've learned in the matter of 3 months?

I've been studying Kanji for over three years and I only know roughly 950 Japanese. What the fuck happened guys?

>>9361824

I would wager that the grapes were sour anyway

Of course, if you were basing your study off the experience of /jp/ users then what would you expect from these failures, really

>>9361857
I got 1500 kanji done in a week in a half, but I didn't do readings with them. Really, anyone can if they're up to the task.

>>9361857

that's not bad OP. It depends on how proficient you are at other areas in the language.

>>9361874
>1500 kanji
>in a week in a half

ur mum might have that kind of kanji retention

>>9361874
Yeah, like you still remember them in a few months.

>>9361863

Further postulate: general society is no better at learning a language than /jp/, perhaps /jp/ is above average.

If you can direct me to someone speaking a language fluently that they learned after the age of 15 I would like that and I would think they were exceptional.
I know non English speakers who have moved to this country in adulthood and lived here for decades without becoming equally proficient as a native speaker.

>>9361893
70% retention first time around, 90% second time, so it wasn't that bad, so long as you devote every waking hour to adding new characters and review. If you have time and energy, it may be worth a try.

I stopped after about 50 kanji because I'm lazy and dumb.

>>9361908
I have known other native speakers who couldn't speak worth a shit. Some people are just fucking retarded and can't learn languages.

>>9361824

w r o n g g u

there is no 'teenage learning phase'

the only thing relevant to learning which happens in the teenage years is learning that you can put your dick in people

>>9361994

No, what I was saying was that your ability to learn diminishes with age and that few adults who begin learning a language will ever succeed to any great degree.
15 was somewhat arbitrary, of course there is no 'teenage learning phase', I have never heard of that before.

>>9361908
I'm 16 though.

>>9362016

pretty much every linguist is 100% fluent without accent in 5+ languages

did they learn all those before they were 15

>>9362050

Are they a small (and dedicated) minority of those who pick up a language in adulthood?
Could they not be characterised as some of my 'few'?

>>9362063

your 'few' is an arbitrary designation for the sake of your argument

you are arguing that humans are for some reason incapable of learning languages with fluency once they're past the age of 15, and your evidence is that there is a low pool of fluent speakers.
the fluent speakers are fluent because they have put substantial work into fluency, not because they have some magical immunity to your 15-year rule, and in the same way nonfluent speakers aren't fluent because they haven't put substantial work into fluency

yes, it is easier to become fluent in a language if you were born in its environment - no, it's not impossible or even difficult enough to warrant a 'rule' like yours

>>9362112

Of course it isn't a hard 'rule'.
The fact remains that the brain becomes less plastic with age and achieving fluency in a language is very difficult at our age, let alone older.
It requires far more effort to become fluent at this age and for this reason few people do, because few put in the greater effort required.
That is an observation, not a rule. I'm sorry if I characterised it as something so rigid.

>>9362145

no it's not 'very difficult'

you're just lazy and projecting your laziness because you want to confer normality onto it

>>9362152

Whatever.

>>9361908

A JP user with opinions and who knows people apparently

The idea of jp users being above average in anything except suicide rates, mental illness and unemployment figures is so ridiculous it doesn't even deserve to be countenanced

>>9362192

I disagree, I think /jp/ would be more intelligent on average than the general public, they are certainly more literate.
Feel free to berate me over that assumption.

>>9362192
We're better at more feats than that, nigger. I bet we rank pretty high on drug use and number of yearly masturbation sessions.

>>9362209

i don't know if i'm here because of `intelligence' or just circumstance

>>9362213

Not to mention hours spent at a computer per day.

Do you take it at a school? Cause I do and thats why I only know that many after that many years.

>>9362209
I am actually an amazing individual. I am great at everything I do. I do not like doing a damn thing though.

>>9362209

I would not under any circumstance classify a familiarity with the ins and outs of the wacky world of poorly-written books with pictures and bad music as anything approaching the status of 'literate'

Unless we were using that term in its strictest meaning i.e. you can read and even then I'd be highly doubtful

>>9362213

Good catch

>>9362218

>I am great at everything I do, which is nothing

>>9362242
I don't even need to say it

>>9362234

No, I was referring to /jp/'s ability to string two words together.
That's quite something in modern Western society.

>>9362253

I would argue more that you're just caught up in various media perceptions and whatever helpful nostrum convinces you this week that you are really a mental lord of humanity rather than face the fact that you are significantly below average in all fields

>>9362260

Don't you talk to a mental lord of humanity like that, peasant.

>>9362209
Based on the content in /jp/, I'd think /jp/ had some of the most stupid computer literate folk on the planet.

A lot of people on 4chan seem to think they're above average, but it rarely seems like anyone with intelligence is on this site at all.

>>9362260

again with that projection thing

>>9362268

how the hell do you know that based on their internet board posts

it's hard to tell intelligence based on real-life impressions, let alone this fucking hellhole of irony and mislead souls and shit

>>9362268
>Based on the content in /jp/, I'd think /jp/ had some of the most stupid computer literate folk on the planet.
I don't know how often you visit other boards, if at all, but just look at the posts in this thread for example. Almost every single one uses good grammar, spelling, and punctuation. Comparing that to other boards on 4chan you can easily see that /jp/ is well above average.

>>9362268

4chan is mostly libertarians and cowardly sociopaths, people who are not known for good assessments of their own character

Unless you pop over to /pol/ in which case you find that the Nazis these days might want to consider adding a couple of caveats to their membership applications

>>9362269

"You're just projecting" is the panacea of the called-out internet failure

>>9362271
What am I supposed to assume when so many people claim to be smart but sound like morons?

>>9362275
I'm talking about shit posting. That's what most of this board is. It's hard to believe that this board is filled with hundreds of above average folk who just happen to pretend to be idiots most of the time.

>>9362260
According to all the standardized tests I've taken, I am a mental lord of humanity. Do those not count?

>>9362281
>"You're just projecting" is the panacea of the called-out internet failure
It's a catch-all answer to baseless accusations.

>>9361857
Doesn't seem impressive since I know Sumerian and Ancient Egyptian

/jp/ is pretty smart.

You're here after all.

950 kanji been roughly only I three years over for Japanese I've studying. fuck the happened guys What?

>>9362302

Aren't you supposed to be fighting a grail war

Remember, it's not a race. You don't have to master the language in a few months, or even a year. If you can learn quickly, good for you. If you can't, don't worry about it. Learn at your own pace. If you only learned 5 kanji a day, taking sundays off, you'd have around 1560 kanji in a year. 10 a day and you'd have over 3000. Just find a number you're comfortable with and enjoy the ride.

>>9361840
Me too.

>>9362304

I've been doing about 30 or so per day just learning the meanings, plus grammar on the side.

Every time I open up Anki it stops responding. Maybe this is a sign that I should give up.

I know this gets asked every other minute but what do you guys use to learn Japanese?

I don't know. I've been learning for three years and I'm fluent.

>>9361824
I managed it.

Though it does seem like most of you guys never progress past the RTK stage. RTK represents about 4% of the time it took me to get to effective fluency (my speaking sucks but that's to be expected since I live on the internet).

>>9366231
Listening will help you with speaking. Get those jperovoice mp3s and listen to them a lot. A possible side effect might be that you'll sound like a girl, but that's not really a problem, right?

>>9366262
My speaking isn't THAT bad. I'm just outside of Japan right now so I don't feel very eloquent right now.

I'm moving there hopefully permanently in October, so I think I can get fluent in that area by the end of the year.

>>9366148
tae kim
anki
jlpt decks

I've been studying Japanese for a year and I don't think I know 100 yet. You're doing great.

That language debate is silly.
The reason older people don't learn language(or anything, for the matter) is that they are lazy due to the fact they are bored with life and so so. They don't even try, and if they do they quickly give up.

I started learning 6 months ago and I'm already fluent.
Btw I'm a 45-years old girl

Help pls

I have the hiragana and katakana down and just started learning the kanji via kanji damage. I have a question though, even though I can read kana I still have no fucking clue what the words I'm reading mean, will it all fall into place when I learn a considerable amount of kanji? Also, how many kanji do you recommend learning per week? I have extremely good memory (I can read the post number of the first ten posts in this thread twice and recite them in order)

>>9361778
>I've been studying Japanese for over three years and I only know roughly 950 kanji. What the fuck happened guys?
Shit, you're doing a hell of a lot better than me. I've been studying English for 24 years and have only know 26 letter.

>>9366367
Should have paid attention to the vocabulary in all your anime and VNs, anon.

>>9366367
As long as you learn the meanings of the kanji you can guess at a word's meaning, but it's not very reliable. I always suggest learning vocab at the same time as kanji for this reason.

>>9366376
I mean I'm not completely clueless I do recognize some words occasionally. But if I'm reading a sentence, I'm basically just reading it in Japanese without knowing what it means.

>>9366380

Sauce on the best resources for doing so?

I'm using Tae Kim (learned kana and stroke orders from it, moving on to grammar once I know a considerable amount of kanji, or is that a bad idea?)
KanjiDamage
And isokki

>>9366367
>will it all fall into place
as soon as you're strapped

>>9366403
What I did was grind every vocab word in Tae Kim with Anki, then moved on to Core2K and vocab I picked up from VNs.

I suggest learning grammar as quickly as possible so you can start reading, because actually reading real text is what helps the most, at least for me.

>I've been studying Japanese for over three years and I only know roughly 950 kanji. What the fuck happened guys?

Because like 90% of this board you are studying a language in a vacuum. I bet you do all these useless out of context kanji drills and whatnot, and then you go back to playing some translated VN/touhou/whatever.

DON'T YOU SEE WHAT'S WRONG HERE?

You have an interest in Japanese entertainment. You have the perfect opportunity to LEARN IN CONTEXT. And yet you don't. You are for some reason too afraid to actually start reading real Japanese. And that is why you fail. A language will NEVER stick in your brain unless you actively use it.

>>9366413
Thanks for the advice.

>>9366418

Fo 'sho

>>9362281
BUt you are.

Your opinion is worth less than shit. What happened to the says when /jp/ would simply ignore blatant shitposters?

>>9366135
>it stops responding
plz respond ;_;

>using anki decks made by other people

>>9362275
i use bad grammar spelling and punctuaction but i do it ironically
i am smart

>>9361824

This is the typical excuse of lazy people.

>>9366415

Basically this. You can grind kanji and grammar for 10 years and still not being able to understand anything if you don't pratice with actual texts.

>>9366415
Not the guy you were replying to, just someone who is going to start learning Japanese soon if I can motivate myself.

What you suggest never occurred to me either, but it makes perfect sense now I think about it.

The reason I'm replying is a question about LNs. As they are aimed at teenagers & young adults, will they typically consist of the ~2000 Kanji that a Japanese person learns in high school, or are they still a bit more complicated? I would be tempted to buy a physical copy of a non-translated series as an extra learning resource and for motivation if this is the case.

Thanks in advance for any replies, and sorry if this question is retarded and not worth anyone's time.

>>9366702
>grind grammar

What? How in the hell do you grind grammar?

>>9367484
Memorizing rules.

>>9367484
Keep getting into random encounters with lessons.

>>9367471
LNs definitely have less than 2000 kanji. Just looking at my copy of the Haruhi LN, it has furigana for words that I would consider "basic" as a VN reader. However, that doesn't mean that reading them is easy, since they are still targeted towards a native audience. Also, in most cases, if you can't read the word in kanji you probably don't know it without kanji either. Thus, the presence of furigana, or writing words in kana when they are usually in kanji, doesn't actually make anything that much easier.

>>9367514
That's good to know. Thanks for the quick and concise reply.

I feel like I'm in a slump. I'm not learning anything new, and I'm even mixing up things I've already learned.
Maybe I should read something more difficult like Subahibi or Muramasa. It's scary, though. ;_;