/jp/ - Otaku Culture

I do. I made a thread earlier and it got deleted. NSJ should try it.

useless newage bullshit

lol Original Poster you are quite the faggot aren't you

My old therapist told me to meditate to deal with my anxiety issues instead of taking pills.

I don't meditate, but I get that feel.

Sometimes I stare off into space. Not sure if that counts.

>>9134869
meditation isn't a new age thing dude

it's part of every religion

and before someone says that it's not, meditation is basically synonymous with prayer

/jp/ is insecure and too scared of being branded a weaboo to openly like things associated with asia.

Studies keep showing that meditation over time has positive physical effects on the brain so there's no reason not to.

>>9134896
So it's equally useless? Good to know.

>>9134915
What's useless about disciplining the mind?

>>9134899
So it's cool if i am indian?

>>9134915
Meditation actually affects the way the brain works. Something to do with people that regularly practice meditation are more capable of entering trances... You know how people have levels of sleep- something like 3 stages and then REM? Apparently when they meditate, they can enter one or two of those stages.

or SOMETHING like that. You can probably google it.

What this means is anybody's guess. Could still be useless, but it physically alters the brain.

Prayer is totally fucking useless though.

>>9134933
So they can sleep with their eyes open?

>>9134933
>Prayer is totally fucking useless though
It's also self-discipline.

>>9134933
>Prayer is totally fucking useless though.

Prayer is meditation.

Seriously what's the difference between a Catholic monk going over his rosary for four straight hours and a Buddhist monk doing the same thing with his prayer beads?

>>9134943
The reason behind their actions. Which does nothing to change the actions themselves.

>>9134933
>Meditation actually affects the way the brain works. Something to do with people that regularly practice meditation are more capable of entering trances... You know how people have levels of sleep- something like 3 stages and then REM? Apparently when they meditate, they can enter one or two of those stages.
[citation needed]

>>9134938
If I'm not mistaken according to the article, they can't enter REM sleep in this meditative state (so they're not technically "sleeping" persay.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc1361002/
"...Within the search territory, a large region of right anterior insula and right middle and superior frontal sulci corresponding approximately to Brodmann areas... were significantly thicker in meditators than in controls"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3328970/
" senior meditators spent more time in the slow wave sleep (SWS) with higher theta–alpha power with background delta activity, together with reduced electromyogram (EMG). The rapid eye movement (REM) sleep was also found to be enhanced. "

Keep in mind, Correlation != Causation.

>>9134945
>The reason behind their actions.

They're both doing it to discipline their minds.

No, its a waste of time.

>>9134943
When you pray, you ask god to perform a miracle and solve all your problems.

Which never happens. meditation? I'm not sure because I'm not a practitioner, but don't they reflect / clear their mind, or something like that?

>>9134946
Meditation also brings a sustained hypometabolic state termed as relaxation response by Herbert Benson and helps in sleep initiation (Wallace et al., 1971). Similarly, meditation techniques help to regulate the blood flow to the executive regions of the brain during sleep (Lou et al., 1999). Meditation practices down regulate HPA axis reducing the stress, prolactin, TSH levels (Jevning et al., 1978a); bring about alterations in the intermediary metabolism favoring an anabolic state. Thus, meditation helps to maintain a wakeful hypometabolic state with parasympathetic predominance (Young and Taylor, 1998).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3328970/

Sometimes. I was really surprised how easy it is to slip into meditation for 5 - 10 minutes and how good I'm feeling afterwards.

>>9134956
>When you pray, you ask god to perform a miracle and solve all your problems.

That's not actually true. I heard a Catholic priest describe it like this: you pray to discipline yourself. If you pray to God to overcome some kind of personal issue like illness you may not do so but through prayer you'll have the mental fortitude to deal with whatever the problem is.

Like I've been trying to say, prayer is synonymous with meditation. Whether or not you're praying for something is irrelevant.

>When you pray, you ask god to perform a miracle and solve all your problems.

lol no

God isnt some Genie in the lamp

>>9134967
You have to also consider that your catholic priest is an outlier, and knows much more about praying than normal Christians.

When I was a Christian, praying meant two things. One- at the dinner table, you pray to thank god for your food. At your bed, you pray and tell him thanks for the day, letting you live, and to hope for good dreams and whatnot.

It's kind of like the amount of Christians that read the bible. A vast majority never touch the thing, yet claim they are Christians.

I'm willing to bet a vast majority of Christians also don't pray correctly, or that your Catholic priest friend doesn't pray correctly. When I'm dragged to church, I don't see any praying for mental fortitude, rather I always see people praying to get their shit solved.

>>9134973
Hey Frez! God hates you!

Being Christian isnt all about praying 70% of the day or reading everything in the bible.

It's all about living morally without casuing anyone else trouble or mischief

>>9134974
>or that your Catholic priest friend doesn't pray correctly.

I think he knows what he's talking about, at least as far as Catholics are concerned.

The other thing some priests do is sleeping on the floor, taking cold showers, and fasting, also for self discipline, and I'll bet that not a lot of ordinary Christians do that either.

I meditate over literature and ideas, not chanting some bullshit with my eyes closed expecting to learn something from nothing.

I've always thought meditating was more or less just training to tame your mind, so you can control your thoughts, emotions and resulting actions better.

Am I wrong? Is it just pretentious bullshit?

>>9135016
I'd say that's part of it.

>>9134987
Bro. This might sound like a shocker to you, but you don't need Christianity to live morally. If anything, Christian dogma is filled with hate, misogyny, murder/violence, arbitrary laws, and things which actually are more immoral than they are moral.

>>9134988
What does the scripture say about praying? The only one I recall is that you should do it silently where there are no distractions, I don't think it's actually written anywhere on "how to pray"

I know Ryu Umemoto did ;_;

Why don't you become monks /jp/?

Buddhist monks or Trappists or whatever!

You can continue living in isolation and not having sex with anyone.

All you'll have to do is devote the time you used to spend masturbating and shitposting to prayer and meditation.

Don't you want to be enlightened/living in a state of grace?

>>9135033

How can you live morally without some sort of dogma? Without dogma, there is no "objective" morality.

>>9135033
>What does the scripture say about praying?

Dunno, but that's not necessarily all to important to Catholics anyway.

This same priest once referred to the Bible as a "book of nice stories," which to most Protestants is absolutely blasphemous, but Catholics, both Roman and Orthodox, aren't real sticklers about the Bible, that's why they have no problem with evolution and whatnot.

Though I think that some of the older Protestant sects are sort of the same way, even though one of the founding principles of Protestantism is "Sola Scriptora."

>>9135044
Why don't you ask the millions of people that lived before 0AD?

Or the millions of people that are currently living without Christianity now?

It's simple. We're hardwired to be "moral" people. Raping unmarried women is encouraged in the bible, yet I don't see any Christians running around raping people to get wives.

>>9135059
Fair enough.

>>9135041
If you become a Trappist, you could make the best beer in the world!

>>9135063
>Why don't you ask the millions of people that lived before 0AD?

>Or the millions of people that are currently living without Christianity now?

Christianity isn't the only dogmatic religion. They all are.

And before someone tries to tell me that Buddhism isn't dogmatic then explain to me what the Four Noble Truths are.

>>9135059
>all to

er, all too

>>9135071
So your argument is that without -some form- of religion, people cannot be moral?

What about athiests? People that just flat out don't believe in God?

>>9135063
>Raping unmarried women is encouraged in the bible

There's some fucked up stuff in the Old Testament but I don't remember anything like that.

In fact all I remember involving rape in the Old Testament is when this one guy raped one of Joseph's daughters (I think that it was Joseph) and two of Josephs 12 sons went and murdered the shit out of that guy and all of his family members and his entire village.

/jp/, go look for a 10-day Vipassana retreat near you.

http://www.dhamma.org/

IT'S ALL 100% FREE

Basically, you're not allowed to look at anyone or talk to anyone for 10 days straight. You follow a strict schedule based on the rules there. In exchange, you are given shelter and fed three times a day. If you want it to be a legitimately healing experience, don't bring ANYTHING except some clothes and toiletries.

You honestly have nothing to lose. Go sign up right now. It's a crazy experience. Usually, everyone wants to leave by day two, and this attitude continues all throughout the week. Very few end up actually following through with that strong desire though. I cried hard every single day. You will have no distractions to divert your attention from yourself. Expect to be battling your inner demons the whole way through. It's a nightmare in a way, but you will get a lot of clarity during and weeks after it's over.

Alternatively, start your journey with psychedelics. They can help a lot too.

>>9135063

dog·ma/ˈdôgmə/
Noun:
A principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.

It's not exclusive to Christianity, moron.

>>9135096
>So your argument is that without -some form- of religion, people cannot be moral?

I never said that.

I'm not >>9135044

Although I'll say that religion creates a very obvious incentive to be moral.

protip: you can be an apatheist and still treat everyone with kindness because you legitimately feel empathy and compassion for others

>>9135101
"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated (anah) her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives." Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NIV

>>9135103
My bad.

In any case:

Lawrence Kohlberg's stages of moral development
Stage four (authority and social order obedience driven), it is important to obey laws, dictums and social conventions because of their importance in maintaining a functioning society.

You can go a lot deeper than stage 4.

>moron
:(((((((((

>>9135102
You can also go and live with Trappists for a time. I'm not sure if they'll let you drink their beer though.

Although they don't all make beer, unfortunately. I think that the closet monastery to where I live had makes nice wooden coffins.

It's scary to think that a lot of people abstain from killing each other solely because it's illegal.

What a world.

>>9135120
That's not encouragement. The rapist is forced to pay the victim's family a lot of money and he's forbidden from ever divorcing her.

It sucks that the victim would have to marry her attacker but the attacker isn't being rewarded for it.

Also I remember reading that the ancient Hebrews sometimes executed rapists by burying them in shit and then setting them on fire.

>>9135131

some people just got brain problems

I wish I could meditate but it seems I have too much ADD for it.

>>9135120

>it is important to obey laws, dictums and social conventions because of their importance in maintaining a functioning society.

Then do you consider it moral to torture or kill people to ensure the safety of a society? Is it moral to kill dissenters and anarchists?

>>9135135
Also.

Deuteronomy 22:25
But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die.

Remember that people got arranged in marriage very early. Maybe death penalty was a lot more common.

>>9135142
If said anarchists and dissenters kill innocent people or endanger them? Yes.

Laws exist for a reason. "Anarchy" isn't as fun as you might believe.

>>9135150
>Remember that people got arranged in marriage very early.

Yeah both the rapist and the victim would have to be pretty young if neither were betrothed.

>>9135135
It's encouragement in the form that the "divine word of God" should be completely banning rape, but it treats women as an object, basically making rape tolerable in comparison to other sins listed in the commandments.

>>9135142
No, it is not moral. I try to abscribe to
In Stage five (social contract driven), the world is viewed as holding different opinions, rights and values. Such perspectives should be mutually respected as unique to each person or community

and Stage six... imagining what they would do in another’s shoes, if they believed what that other person imagines to be true.

>>9135153

I'm just using it as an example. My political views aren't even close to being vaguely anarchist in nature.

So, you're saying murder is acceptable if it prevents other murders? It's not immoral to kill people?

>>9135159
>It's encouragement in the form that the "divine word of God" should be completely banning rape, but it treats women as an object, basically making rape tolerable in comparison to other sins listed in the commandments.

Well first of all there aren't actually "10 commandments" anywhere in the Bible, there's more than 400 commandments.

Second, as we discussed here >>9135135
and here >>9135150
rape isn't exactly encouraged.

Third, yeah the Old Testament doesn't treat women as equal to men but, as I mentioned earlier, not all Christians and Jews take everything the Bible says literally.

See, they look at the Bible and say "that's not God saying this, that's the bronze age desert tribesmen who wrote this that are saying that."

That priest who called the Bible a "book of nice stories" said that what's really important about the Bible is the lessons that are taken from some of the stories.

whos still playin spirt tales hit me up lol

I meditate, helps me relax and focus my mind

>>9135155
For women, as soon as they were able to breed safely, around 15 or so years old.

For men, as soon as they knew some way to sustain themselves reliably and had a home of their own, which was around 30 years.

People back then died quickly. Reaching an old age was an accomplishment and extremely good luck.

>>9135174
What do you think? Should I let a serial killer run loose? Am I truly so naive and stupid to spare his life? Enforcing such laws discourage idiots from doing the same.

Draconic laws work. Hammurabi was legendarily known as one of the most fair and impartial judges, and his laws (Hammurabi code) was no laughing matter. Shit was very serious business.

>>9135135
It does mean that if you've got your eye on some bonnie lass you can just rape her into marriage.

>>9135206
>30

That was well past middle age back then. I read that girls were ready to wed around the time they had their first period, 15 or so, and men usually wed when they were about 19 or 20.

Maybe I'll dig around for some citations here...

>>9135209
Possibly. But it would probably be easier just to talk your parents into arranging a marriage with her.

>>9135206

So it's not only moral to kill people, but to impose upon them laws they don't necessarily agree with or support by force to ensure social stability?

Also, Draconian law is not the same as Babylonian law.

>>9135206
Some of Hammurabi's shit was quite unfair, what with punishing someone's son if they did something to someone else's son and whatnot.

Everything else was fairly just and even revolutionary. Who else in ancient times had building codes?

>>9135222

What's easier and faster than raping a woman? You honestly think it would easier to convince someone's parents to let them marry you then to hold a girl down and bone her for 4 or 5 minutes? You must weigh less than 90 lbs.

>>9135233
Your opinion would change if you had a guy near you who does not fear retaliation if he shoots you in the face.

>>9135236
Eye for and eye. You punch a pregnant woman and cause a miscarriage? You get your daughter killed and a good scourging., idiot.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8317-meditation-builds-up-the-brain.html

HERE /jp/. Also meditation turns you into a sociopath.

>>9135243
Sure it's fast but 1) you owe her family a lot of money and 2) you can never, ever divorce her.

>>9135243
Would you risk stoning for 5 minutes of humping?

And then we have the issue of non-virgins. Men, as they always have, want a "brand new" wife. A raped woman that might have had a kid from said rape does not sound like an acceptable candidate. So how do we solve this?

A woman didn't have much options back then. usually, women just recollected the harvest and tended to her home and kids, which was a tough job in itself. A lone woman was a very desperate situation back then.

How would you solve this? There is no such thing as welfare.

>>9135256

>Your opinion would change if you had a guy near you who does not fear retaliation if he shoots you in the face.

But I haven't expressed my opinion on such, I'm only asking you what you think is moral.

>Eye for and eye. You punch a pregnant woman and cause a miscarriage? You get your daughter killed and a good scourging., idiot.

So killing someone unrelated to a specific action is okay? A miscarriage is also the same as murdering a developed and birthed child?

>>9135280

But I thought all I needed to get married was to successfully rape a girl? I didn't know I was risking a stoning, goddammit.

>>9135280
>Would you risk stoning for 5 minutes of humping?

Or being buried in shit and set on fire.

I wonder if it was dry shit and that's what was set on fire. I remember reading that they were buried up to the waist... maybe they were buried in fresh, smelly shit and then their torsos were lit somehow.

Mmmm they were probably burned with dry shit. Maybe I'll look it up.

>>9135282
Is it moral to let those two cases go unpunished?

>>9135292
Did you miss >>9135135

And yeah if the girl was betrothed to anyone your ass would be grass.

>>9135102
This sounds pretty cool. I'd definitely try it, but the thought of what kind of people visit there frightens me.

>mfw /jp/ is having a civil discussion on religion

>>9135329
go back to /v/ you and your greentext.

>>9135306

I'm asking you what you personally consider moral.

To be fair I don't feel there is an absolute or objective moral system, despite having personal morals, largely influenced by judeo-christian thought, having been raised in a judeo-christian society. I support different political systems for different environments and situations.Granted, I don't think the state should ever be held above the individual, for obvious reasons. Look into John Rawl's theory of justice if you're interested-not entirely relevant to what I'm saying, but nonetheless an interesting take on justice and law.

Praise the Lord

>>9135339
ladies first
>>>/v/

>>9135343

But Void Shiki is the true God of the typemooniverse.

>>9135317
superior to the normalfags, that i'm sure about.
conquering the mind is not an easy task to do.

>>9135350
I meant me

>>9135341
Justice is not about (yours or mine) morals, but to prevent crimes. Is it moral to kill someone? No. Is it just to let said person live after he raped and killed a boy? No.

A rapist and a murderer have no place in a civilized society. We live together in order to survive and thrive, not to harm each other. You don't like it? Live somewhere else. You wronged someone in the community despite knowing what would happen to you? You deserve your punishment.

>>9135350
silly woman, that's no toothpick!

>>9135206
>People back then died quickly. Reaching an old age was an accomplishment and extremely good luck.
>>9135215
>30
>That was well past middle age back then.

I really do hope that you do not really believe that. If people managed to survive the first years they usually lived quite long.

>>9135376

How we define and punish a crime is entirely related to morality, and if they aren't defined by yours or mine, then they are defined by someone else's.

Also, your equating rape to murder is fallacious and naive.

>>9135374

But you're a cocksucking homofaggot tripnerd shitsniffer.

>>9135376
but what good can come from killing another after he has already raped and murder a little boy?

I feel that taking "an eye for an eye" will spark endless wars. Eventually someone has to forgive the other.

What I imagine in a "perfect society" is rehabilitation. The offender goes to jail, where they are educated and are able to express their feelings, and so forth. There are plenty of pedophiles out there who do not act out their urges (see: You guys). After the amount of time ascribed due to the law, they are released, presumably with empathy and understanding.

If I'm not mistaken, this is how they do jail time in some European countries.

Perhaps if they fuck up more than once, something more drastic should happen.

>>9135406
>but what good can come from killing another after he has already raped and murder a little boy?
If one believes that the virtuous should be rewarded and the guilty should be punished, then the punishment meted out to the criminal is good in its own right.

>I feel that taking "an eye for an eye" will spark endless wars.
That's why most societies institute a monopoly on force.

>>9135406
Yes, I am sure that letting them be and just giving them the neet life is the way to go.

>>9135422
Aside from something fun like torturing him to death, just letting him NEET away irrelevantly is something that would probably irritate him. What he wants is a big showy trial.

>>9135400
>I really do hope that you do not really believe that. If people managed to survive the first years they usually lived quite long.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy#Life_expectancy_variation_over_time

According to the citations the average life expectancy during the bronze age was 26. This comes from studying bones.

>>9135429
So yeah not only was it past middle age it was past when most people were already dead, apparently.

>>9135429
Average life expectancy is skewed downwards because of huge infant mortality rates. The average life expectancy of people who had survived to, say, age thirteen would be significantly higher.

>>9135406

>Rehabilitation

Oh please. There are people that simply cannot be rehabilitated, and plenty of people are imprisoned for victimless crimes (Smoking a joint or paying someone to have sex with you requires rehabilitation, right). What you're talking about is state-sponsored, politically-motivated brainwashing.

Not that our punitive caging of people is really any better, mind you. Being killed is likely far more merciful than subjecting someone to solitary confinement for life, for example.

>>9135413
What is "virtue"? What is being "guilty" or being "innocent"?

There was an isolated island where a tribe without any contact with the outer world lived. One day a boat landed there, and people on the island started taking things off of the boat. The ticked off boat owner killed the thieves, only to discover that the people did not have a sense of ownership.

People are not born into being evil. Everybody feels that they are doing what is necessary for them. What if the only reason why you thought something, say "murder", or "drug dealing", or "stealing from corporations", was wrong because you were brought up that way? Do you deserve death because society decided that was not okay but your parents decided it was okay?

We need to teach them more than we need to punish them.

>>9135448
State sponsored? What I feel is empathy for these "criminals".

please stop the religion/morality BDSM.
it has no connection to the meditation.

if you are in meditative conciousness, there is no need to do harm.

btw, the only real happiness can be achieved through mental discipline, external things like love or money won't get you there.

>>9135456
>
There was an isolated island where a tribe without any contact with the outer world lived. One day a boat landed there, and people on the island started taking things off of the boat. The ticked off boat owner killed the thieves, only to discover that the people did not have a sense of ownership.

That's a nice story but I'm not sure that any anthropologist has found any culture anywhere with no concept of "ownership."

Land ownership is another matter, because many native peoples never had livestock they never had to build fences, and because of that they didn't develop a real keen sense of "this area is mine that area is yours."

Even so they did have some idea of land ownership, what with tribal areas and whatnot.

Also issues of morality are pretty universal. There is no society on earth to have ever existed which praised soldiers who run away from battle or children who kill their parents or whatever.

>>9135456

>We need to teach them more than we need to punish them.

What if they still don't agree with you? Will you just continue to cage them?

You also assume that you will have absolute and complete control over all these things, when plenty of actors will play into this "rehabilitation" and containment of yours.

>State-sponsored

What other institution has the right to imprison and brainwash people? Your empathy is irrelevant, and if you did, by some odd alignment of the stars and the universe, have absolute control over a prison system and could control everything that happened in it, you would still owe your power to the backing of the state, or some equally powerful entity that should be called a state.

>>9135456
>There was an isolated island where a tribe without any contact with the outer world lived. One day a boat landed there, and people on the island started taking things off of the boat. The ticked off boat owner killed the thieves, only to discover that the people did not have a sense of ownership.

That's a nice story but I'm not sure that any anthropologist has found any culture anywhere with no concept of "ownership."

Land ownership is another matter, because many native peoples never had livestock they never had to build fences, and because of that they didn't develop a real keen sense of "this area is mine that area is yours."

Even so they did have some idea of land ownership, what with tribal areas and whatnot.

Also issues of morality are pretty universal. There is no society on earth to have ever existed which praised soldiers who run away from battle or children who kill their parents or whatever.

>>9135463

Define real happiness and tell me why you think you understand what it is for all people.

>>9134915
Edgy teen detected.

Get out.

>>9135477

>children who kill their parents

Romans worshiped Jupiter who murdered his father Saturn.

I agree with you, I'm just saying.

>>9135456
>What is "virtue"? What is being "guilty" or being "innocent"?
Most societies have come to a general common understanding of what constitutes virtue.

>What if the only reason why you thought something, say "murder", or "drug dealing", or "stealing from corporations", was wrong because you were brought up that way?
Who cares?

>Do you deserve death because society decided that was not okay but your parents decided it was okay?
If you grew up in a isolated bubble the justice statement should account for it and give you a chance at rehabilitation. Most people didn't.

I don't meditate.
Not enough time in the world to meditate.

>>9135485
He didn't kill Saturn he castrated him because he was a baby eating scumbag.

>>9135477
At various times in Soviet history, children who turned in their traitorous parents to be exiled (astronomical mortality rate) or killed outright were celebrated as national heroes.

I don't meditate but I do stretch 4 times a day for 15 minutes a piece.
I think it's just as relaxing as meditating and it's pretty good for you too.

>>9135494

Further proof that communism was invented by the devil.

>>9135494
Yes, and Russia turned out alright after the dust settled in. People are fucking lost there.

>>9135494
That's if they're parents were traitors.

I'm talking about kids who just straight up murder their parents.

Like, "waaah you won't let me do what I want I'm gonna kill you." The spoiled murderous brats you see in the news, you know?

>>9135508
>invented by the jews
ftfty

I meditate while masturbating.

You too can do it, become a discordianist today.

>>9135515
Yes, most cultures frown upon obvious self-destructive activities but saying that moral values are quite universal is just deluded. For example many native Americans viewed killing in war wrong, while it was ok for Europeans. Europeans on the other hand were disgusted by the practice of human sacrifice.

>>9135537
>For example many native Americans viewed killing in war wrong,

Bullshit.

>>9135537
>many native Americans viewed killing in war wrong

I seriously doubt they were the same ones who supported human sacrifice. Also, how the fuck do you have a war without killing? There were also plenty of very violent tribes.

>>9135548
>>9135546
>>9135537
Not the best source, but I googled it

Native Americans, on the other hand, knew little of all-out war... Both in scale and in duration, their skirmishes were minuscule compared to Europe.... Indians fought in small forays, with limited numbers of warriors. Their battles were often a game of ‘chicken’ where one side or the other backed down in the face of the fiercer opponent. They tried not to kill other Indians if it was not necessary and so had no need for guns or cannons.
http://robwrite.hubpages.com/hub/Why-the-Native-Americans-ultimately-lost-America

oh look some guy totally derailed the topic

>>9135557

That faggot doesn't even have any citations.

>and so had no need for guns or cannons

No, they just didn't have them. The indians used guns they took from the Europeans, you know that, right?

>>9135557
Yeah I've read about that too, the games of chicken and whatnot.

But they got down and dirty sometimes and when that happened they certainly did not look down on killing.

Lots of people have a highly romanticized notion of American Indians but from what I've heard from this archeologist I know here in Colorado they could get pretty nasty.

>>9135563

What an insightful contribution to this thread, Bern.

>>9135568
I said it was a shitty source, but the source was meant to provide proof that
>>9135546
wasn't talking out of his ass.

>>9135587

But they did occasionally kill people in their skirmishes if they got too heated, so clearly the OPs originally point is moot.

>>9135596
OP never said anything having to do with American Indians.

We're only discussing them now because of the notion of a universal morality.

>>9135546
>>9135548
For example Aztecs viewed humans as too important beings to be simply killed in war and tried to capture them for sacrifice. Warfare of the area was defined by this belief and for instance one theory about xōchiyāōyōtl is that it was fought mainly for prisoners.

>>9135604

So it's relevant that they thought you shouldn't kill people when you were playing chicken, but if shit got too real and they did, it's not?

How is that different from war? It's just a form of escalation culminating in violence.

>>9135608

Fact: Aztecs were fucking crazy

>>9135615
They were the first ones to implement universal education for both genders and other policies which would be hailed as "progressive" nowadays.

>>9135479
okay.
should i say, enlightenment?
that would be the highest peak, but you don't need to be an ultra monk to feel the lesser version of it.
it's not just 'relaxation', don't compare stretching. it's not a passive thing.

for me, there is two kinds of happiness, external one comes from meeting the conditions one set for himself.
The other one does not depend on the external conditions(this alone makes it superior) and is generated through mental discipline the point of which is to make you more aware.

the thing is, happiness is our natural state, but people with low awareness don't have access to it.

tldr;
attention/mindfulness/awareness directly correlates with happiness
meditation is a greatest way to acquire it

>>9135620
They were shitty mathematicians compared to the Mayans also, so there.

>>9135621

>happiness is our natural state

What evidence do you have for that? That's entirely anecdotal.

>>9135630
Source: His ass, feel/sound good garbage

>>9135630
bad choice of words, maybe. copypasted the phrase from some great meditator, though i bet the idea itself is >4000 years old.
but the meaning is that when you remove the internal noise/internal monologue, which is the result of being focused enough, the only thing which is left is joy.
mindfulness simply extinguishes negative emotions.

>>9135640

>when you remove the internal noise/internal monologue, which is the result of being focused enough, the only thing which is left is joy.
Again, there is no evidence for that-you are supplementing your own experience and philosophy and verifying it with the opinions of others who agree with you.
>mindfulness simply extinguishes negative emotions.
Same thing here.

I once did not meditate. Then I discovered that I was the Avatar. Now, I meditate constantly so I can hang out with my past lives. It's pretty much the best thing ever.

>>9135647
Oh shit. I love your wacky adventures. No spoilers, real talk.

>>9135644
heard of Shinzen Young?
he is a scientist and a meditator.

his Google Tech Talk lection is worth more than a week on 4chan(or a year, if you are on /jp/)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XCWP4pODbs

>>9135644
>mindfulness simply extinguishes negative emotions.
Same thing here.
what, never heard of "count to ten when you mad?

>>9135685

Sorry, but, psychologists are not scientists-they do not rely on objective data. This is nothing but philosophy.

>>9135688

Anger is the only negative emotion?

>>9135688

>count to ten when you mad?
>Objective, factual evidence of mindfulness expelling all "negative" emotions

Right.

We're talking about science now?

Before we start thinking that science and religion are like the opposite of each other, let's look up NOMA shall we?

>>9134933
prayer is about focusing your thoughts

>>9135700
Psychology is turning into science with clinical trials, double blind studies, etc.etc. though! Shifting from a freudian conjecture based into an empirical observation based science. Makes me happy.

I masturbate.

>>9135718

>clinical trials, double blind studies, etc.etc. though!

Yet these research methods still yield somewhat subjective data.

It is becoming more scientific, absolutely, and I believe it will continue, but it's not quite there yet. Also, this guy in>>9135685 isn't discussing anything genuinely scientific, he's talking about his philosophy. He's thoughtful and his ideas have some merit, but it's not objective, and it's not science.

>>9135463
please stop being ignorant

>>9135700
just a small example. if counting to ten was this much powerful , there would be no wars.

btw i count any practice, which focuses your mind as meditation.
even masturbation can befome a meditation, in before tantra
sitting cross legged or chanting mantras is not obligatory at all

>>9135608
aztec 2hus when

How about lying on your bed drunk and staring at the ceiling?

>>9135735
we cannot stop being ignorant. there is too much information.

discussing those things will get you nowhere near happiness.
it's either practice and progress, or argue and stay on the same level.

pic related

>>9135772
yes!
but to make it more effective, concentrate on the point halfway to the ceiling and when your eyes wander off, look again.

the goal is to keep your eyes from wandering off the longer time

thats what you get when you say "Prayer" is different from "Meditation"

>>9135779
You do realize the only reason why people post this on 4chan is because we all think it's ridiculously stupid, right? You're not supposed to agree with it.

>>9135848
not following you here.
to agree with what?

>>9135872
gotes.jpg

>>9135872
You know that quote, something like

If you pretend to be a fool, you'll find yourself in the midst of fools who believe themselves to be in good company?

You're 'that guy'. You need to back up your sources using empirical data. You need sources that use science and experimentation, not people that use feel good generalistic statements; this is literally how religions are created.

>>9135891
oh.
hm, but why?
blaming self for world bit may be too hardcore, but the rest seems pretty legit.

>>9135772

I find chatting to people on the internet when I'm so drunk I'm almost unable to type is so difficult and requires so much focus that it qualifies as meditation.

>>9135913
Other common complaints include "Obsessed with questioning and obsessed with facts need to switch places", "whether or not it's more important to listen or act really depends on the situation", "'built for climbing' doesn't make sense" and "it's immature to think you can break down maturity into a diagram like this".

I already site around and do nothing. What's the difference?

>>9135779

>we cannot stop being ignorant

Ignorance, like everything else, is relative.

>discussing those things will get you nowhere near happiness.

Rigidly define happiness in a manner that is conducive to objective research.

More informally, you are projecting what you believe to be true on others.

>it's either practice and progress, or argue and stay on the same level.

You're implying that practicing something leads to progress. To what end? To argue is a form of logical exploration and refinement-true argumentation does not keep people on the same level, it expands and clarifies their own ideas.

You're a pretentious asshole that needs to pull out the "maturity" card to avoid explaining yourself or critically reviewing your own ideas. The irony is thick.

>>9135779
If "focuses on differences" is a Red Goat, why does the chart divide all people into 3 distinct categories

>>9136000
That chart is really bad. That's why.

>>9135911
i've been introduced into "spiritual" world-view in teenage years, did not have very strong critical mind back then.
might be stupid expecting for people to believe me outright

>>9135938
obsession does not sound right, i would prefer "preference" or "priority"
but the idea is still legit, right?
same with everything else.
that pic might not be the absolutely precise representation of maturity, yet it shows enough of what should be dropped for good. and to think that people live and die while being on the lower level.

>>9136025
>and to think that people live and die while being on the lower level
you sound like a fag