/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Just run them through Google translate.

>>9032156
This post sponsored by REtrans.

>>9032156
Hello Cudder.

>>9032155
If someone did would you be able to insert them and get it running?

>>9032283
I haven't tested inserting in Zoku, but I was able to for the last game

>>9032170
>>9032172
You think I'd be awake at 8AM on a SATURDAY morning?

We strongly recommend that you use an industry-standard format like CSV. The translation community does not need another proprietary undocumented format. Using standards-based technology enhances interoperability with existing tools, enabling modularity and reuse fostering an ecosystem of open data interchange between its stakeholders, reducing total cost of operations and increasing productivity at all levels.

We can provide assistance with migrating to and deploying standards-based technologies across your localisation platform, including conversion of existing data. Please contact us for more information.

>>9034716
Personally, I always thought Cudder was a dumb fuck only out for attention. But after reading this post, it struck me like thunder that IHBT way harder than I ever imagined possible for all these years. Masterfully done. I found new respect for you.

>>9034716
Fuck off with your CSV bullshit. It's not a format for writing text you crazy cunt.

>>9034726
It's a format for storing organised relational data. There are many existing tools available to process it; for example, you can import it into a database so multiple translators and editors can work simultaneously. There is a lot of existing technology you can leverage there.

As is, the provided proprietary format is usable with ONLY one application, whatever the OP used. With no format specifications available, it's anyone's guess on what the specifics are, even if they wanted to convert it. Sure you can edit, but there's no certainty of what will work and what won't.

>>9034753
Nobody gives a shit. When I translate, I want to use my favourite text editor without any additional formatting crap.

Stay away from translation projects please, everything you are involved in fails miserably.

>>9034753
>As is, the provided proprietary format is usable with ONLY one application, whatever the OP used.
Back to bed Cudder. It's all about tools, if you have the tools to insert the text, then you are good. If you don't, no amount of ``leveraged synergized enterprise grade 1990 CSV technology'' will help you. And guess what? You never release your tools, so your CSV advice is just your attempt at being relevant.

You was never relevant by the way.

If you're still not convinced, then here are some examples of the versatility of going for a standard relational format:

1. Statistics. We all love statistics. Let's say I want to find how many translated lines each character has. Assuming all the data is loaded, it's just a query away: SELECT u.name, COUNT(u.text_line) FROM untranslated_text u, translated_text t WHERE u.linekey = t.linekey AND u.text_line <> t.text_line GROUP BY u.name

With your format, I would first have to figure out how to parse it, then develop a bespoke application just to do that. This is assuming I have the specifications for the format to be able to get a correct parser in the first place.

2. Collaboration. Multiple translators/editors/etc. can easily work simultaneously. RDBMSs have the access control, concurrency, and history features already provided.

3. Wide availability of applications. There's the ubiquitous Excel, open-source equivalents, web-based ones like RWI, etc. These are only for editing the data manually, but things like automatic spelling/grammar checkers, wordwrapping, and line normalisation are also easily implemented on top of the relational layer and immediately usable for every project that needs them. Every application you develop that uses this shared architecture can be reused with ease.

>>9034782
>With your format, I would first have to figure out how to parse it, then develop a bespoke application just to do that.
Nobody gives a shit about you. All you need is a single set of tools to extract/insert the files. Then it's only plain text you can edit in whatever the fuck editor you want.
And no, you dumb cunt, people don't work simulataneously on the same file because it doesn't make any sense. And if you want collaboration, then use a SCM system,... you know... because LINES and stuff.

>>9034760
You likely haven't looked, because there's plenty of "additional formatting crap" in the OP's provided scripts too. Nothing is stopping you from extracting only the column with the text you need and inserting that later, except with OP's format the first problem is how to find what the column delimiter is.

>>9034774
>if you have the tools to insert the text, then you are good
Only for that ONE particular project, and then you have to contend with some other format for the next. You are not thinking ahead far enough. Besides, the translator shouldn't need to worry about that at all, because his/her responsibility is to translate.

Let's not turn this thread into another stupid round of personal attacks. Only those who are prejudiced and biased will resort to those, as they lack the brain capacity to make objective arguments :)

>>9034809
>except with OP's format the first problem is how to find what the column delimiter is.
Who cares? OP provides extraction/insertion, the translator provides translation.

Who gives a shit about you and your desperate efforts at being relevant? There no need for your ``services'' and bullshit advices.

Cudder has the worst case of autism that this planet has ever witnessed.

>>9034825
>Who cares? OP provides extraction/insertion, the translator provides translation.
In other words it's the same service-based model we provide, but the difference is that we use standard formats for our deliverables.

There is no need for your personal attacks either. I am just making aware our initiative to standardise the process so that translation projects are not as fragmented and a better infrastructure can develop. Of course it's natural to mention that we can offer these services too, and as far as I know we're the first to go this route, but that is not the main point --- getting other LTPs to move to the same standards is.

>>9034809
The fact that you've spent half a thread complaining about something that would take me 5 minutes to extract in any format I wish amuses me.

>>9034809
>you have to contend with some other format for the next

OH EMM GEE

Two different formats for two different projects on two different systems months apart? That's fucking madness. It is impossible for any translator, nay, any human, to be able to handle such an ordeal. Thank you for showing us all the light.

Cudder, how about you translate/hack super robot wars z.2 and z2.2 instead.

>>9035804
Cudder doesn't hack. He bypasses file encryption and security to manufacture project solutions.

>we
>we
>we
>we

No you fucking nigger. It's just you. Stop using first person plural.

>>9035669
My recommendations (not "complaining") were directed at you more than anyone else. I just had to defend myself from those whose sole means of argument are insults and personal attacks. While most of what you say is true, you have neglected to think further ahead. Your decisions now may have considerable implications in how things turn out in the future. Even if you decide to use a proprietary format, then it would be advantageous to supply the requisite documentation, as currently no one --- not even the translator who has to deal with it --- knows the specifics.

>>9035703
I'm not saying it's impossible, but by converging to one standard, it increases overall productivity and decreases the amount of duplicate work required, as it facilitates reuse of existing tools for common processes. For example, if you want wordwrap, you'll need to write a separate tool for each format/project, as opposed to writing one once and applying it for every one thereafter. The current state of translation projects is too fragmented --- it's not about one or two projects/formats, it's about several dozen. Moving to standards-based technology consolidates the process and enables overall higher throughput and lowers the barrier to project migration and initial setup.

tl;dr: Why do you think things like DXF, EDIF, EPS, PNG, etc. exist?

>>9035804
You should know how to initiate a project by now. [Hint: the first step requires finding a translator.]

who the fuck is this cudder? and R??
and never, ever fucking use "we"

>>9038860
Lurk more.

FYI: "I" = my own personal views; "we" = as a representative on behalf of REtrans International, a subsidiary of REchan IHG.

>>9038815
I could write a thesis with all the incorrect assumptions you're making here.

>>9038930
Not the guy you're replying to, but I've been here for about three and a half years and have no idea who you are.

>>9038962
Then you should lurk more around this time.

>>9038815
>Even if you decide to use a proprietary format, then it would be advantageous to supply the requisite documentation, as currently no one --- not even the translator who has to deal with it --- knows the specifics.
Why haven't you provided a documentation for Milky Holmes format?

Why are you even in this thread by the way? How did you come to the conclusion that you might be somehow needed?

>>9039169
>Why haven't you provided a documentation for Milky Holmes format?
It's the same as all the other projects we've done and you can find it here:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4180

>Why are you even in this thread by the way? How did you come to the conclusion that you might be somehow needed?
Why are YOU even in this thread by the way? How did YOU come to the conclusion that "you come to the conclusion that you might be somehow needed?"

>>9039202
>Why are YOU even in this thread by the way?
I have triggers for ``Cudder''.

>>9038860
just 2 retards, don't mind them.

>>9038815
I now see why you've got your reputation on this board. You honestly have NO idea how trivial it would be to extract the scripts in whatever format a potential translator desired. I dumped the scripts with the first version of my extractor to test the waters. All those grandiose statements you've made about decisions for the future of a project haven't even been made yet!

>>9038860
I'm nobody, just used a tripcode so it was obvious I was the OP.

>>9039348
>You honestly have NO idea how trivial it would be to extract the scripts in whatever format a potential translator desired.
I'm not arguing against that; I'm saying it's beneficial to follow existing standards whenever they exist instead of trying to invent your own. I know it's tempting to do the latter and it may not seem particularly difficult. You seem young and just starting out so I don't blame you for not seeing the "big picture".

>All those grandiose statements you've made about decisions for the future of a project haven't even been made yet!
Certainly true, but I've seen too many instances where applying a little foresight could've made things much easier going forward. It's certainly paid off with the projects we've done so far --- like I said before a lot of the infrastructure we have remains unchanged across projects, there's only a tiny amount of engine-dependent code to deal with.

We're pushing this initiative pretty strongly because we believe being able to exchange scripts and interoperate easily with other LTPs and translators in the VNTL community is key to unifying and strengthening its production.

"United we stand, divided we fall."

Hey Cudder, hey.
What if the scripts are in a proprietary format to begin with?

>>9039398
>You seem young and just starting out so I don't blame you for not seeing the "big picture".
Oh god Cudder why are you so funny?
There's no big picture. There's no "proprietary" formats or anything, it's just plain text.
Do you also recommend people to use Excel when writing essays/letters/prose etc?

Keep your insanity out of the anything translation related.

>>9039398
There is no we. Nobody cares about you and your projects all fail due to your autism. Fuck off.

>>9039419
>There's no "proprietary" formats or anything, it's just plain text.
It's "just plain text" in the same way that HTML, CSS, XML, etc. files are "just plain text". You are looking at the wrong level of abstraction. To stretch an analogy from networking, this is the "transport layer protocol", but there is a layer above that: VN text is organised into lines/records, and each line/record has associated with it things like the name, the text, the voice file to be used, the associated sprite, etc. It is that layer of interpretation which corresponds to the application layer protocol. And the format here is proprietary in the same way that you can plug ordinary headphones into an iDevice but can't get the extra functionality, because they have a proprietary signaling protocol implemented over the same standard headphone socket.

> Do you also recommend people to use Excel when writing essays/letters/prose etc?
No, but Word is a good choice if you want to use MS software. It is an application which is appropriate to the structure of the document being prepared. In the same way that you structure essays in paragraphs, chapters, etc., VN scripts are structured in lines with records in each line.

>>9039420
That's what the LTP abstracts away during text extraction via engine-specific code.

>>9039484
>To stretch an ana[bullshit]
I could and can't stop laugh xD

>>9039510
It really says something about your maturity when strstr(posttext,"anal") is all you can do with your cognitive ability.

I thought /jp/ was better than this.

>>9039529
Maturity isn't an option when dealing with crazy people.

>>9035840
He was using the royal We.

>>9039484
In which case it's proprietary to begin with. Go heckle developers who don't want you snooting around in their code. Complain you need special tools. See if they give a fuck.

Also what is an "LTP"? Out of curiosity I searched the archive, and you are the only person who uses the term. Sometimes under a different trip, or while anonymously advertising REtrans.

I was like, "Wow, an Oreimo PSP game thread! I just started playing the first one!"

Then I see this.

I don't know who you are Cudder, but I hate you.
Also, REtrans? Fuck you.

Is it the first game or the second where you can marry Kanako? That's all I want to know.

Also, I'm assuming there's no patch for the first, but anybody who's played it; those fucking Two Shot things, is there a rule of thumb for them? I mean, I might pick a response, and then he'll say something cruel; I didn't mean that. Fuck this shit.

One of those flowcharts would be awesome. There's bound to be one of them bouncing about somewhere.

>>9032314
How did that work out for the Two Shots?

You have to have a successful project before you begin lecturing people on how things should work, Cudder. How's that search for a translator for Flyable Hearts coming?

>>9039970
>Also, I'm assuming there's no patch for the first
Someone was working on a patch, but then the project died when they realised it's flavour of the month.

>>9039988
The floating tsukkomi bubbles are images, so easily replaceable.

>>9040931
If you still have the script for the first game, would you gimme a link? I'll take a look, and, depending on the length, might give it a go through.

Is the second game a sequel? Or does it take the place of the first?

>we
>we
>we
>we
>we
>we
>we

>>9040385
Didn't someone else start translating it because they were unsatisfied with Cudder's progress?

>>9041008
>progress
Hah, yeah.

>>9040973
Here you go:
http://bayfiles.com/file/apyv/ggInUl/OreImo_P_scripts.zip

It's closer to a 1.5 than a sequel. There are after stories for the routes in the first game and a few new ones.

>>9041196
If I just wanted Kanako, could I just skip the first one without missing shit?

>>9041388
You could. But the first game is still a fun read, and it's not like it's particularly long. There is far more super moe Kanako in the second game though.

>>9041421
Only reason I was playing was Kanako.

I dunno, I'd be more open to playing if it was a little more opaque with how the choices you make affect the story. I have absolutely no clue with the two shot bits; how the hell would me cutting in with a "The hell!?" affect the story so much!?

Would be more inclined to do it if there was a nice flowchart available, but the only thing I could find was an awfully formatted text one which causes me physical pain to try and mess with.

Wouldn't mind doing Satori's, but I have no fucking clue how it decided what route I'm allowed do or not. The only thing really coming to mind was completely blanking the game comp. for the school trip or vice versa, but that doesn't really help that much.

Alas, the problems we in the First World must deal with.

Can you dump the CG set instead?

>>9042171
Part of the fun is trying to get the girls, to me. But yea, Ore no Imouto P's was a little complex. There is a flow chart in the omake section on the title screen. You can see where the branches are and stuff. The choices in the 2-shot part don't normally affect the story. Normally if you succeed, you get a new ORE or whatever they call it. These allow you to make a decisions in the regular VN part, which will affect the outcome.

Either way, like I said, you don't have to play the first game if you want. The Kanako route in the second game is great, and the 2nd game overall is pretty linear.

Hmm, how does one go about opening the ISO into readable files? Which program is recommended?

>>9042252
Daemontools Lite will mount an ISO in a virtual drive for you. Most versions of Linux mount ISOs right out of the box.

>>9042282
Oh, that I know. I am still downloading the ISO files for the OreImo PSP and plan on rummaging through the CG files of the game, but I expect them to be encrypted in a way I can't easily access, so I wanted to know how OP did it.
I could be totally wrong though, I'll see how once the download finishes, but I expect it to be harder than just mounting it.

>>9042298
Oh, sorry. I thought you were asking how to read an ISO.
Take it easy, dude.

>Wouldn't mind doing Satori's

First you have to... you know.

>>9042327
I am, no worries.

>>9042298
Use UMDgen to open the ISO. The main file you'll want is INSDIR\RES.dat. That file is a GPDA format, you'll need tenoritool to extract it.

http://forums.novelnews.net/showthread.php?t=35627

Inside are more GPDA dats, same process to extract them. The image folders will appear to have .gims, but most of them are actually gziped.

>>9039855
Of course they're usually proprietary. That's the entire premise behind our position as a Localiz(s)ation Technology Provider (answered your second question there) --- as an intermediary between these proprietary formats and standard ones the translation community can easily work with. The goal we're moving towards is one-click extract-insert. Upload script files to a site, download extracted text, upload translated text, download script files ready for use. Maybe even automate creating patch installers and such. That's a more distant goal than migrating and unifying everyone.

>>9039970
Joining in on the lynching? Is /jp/ still stuck in the middle ages of witch hunts and the belief of a flat earth? Given some of the sentiments expressed in this thread, it very much seems to be so.

>>9040385
Innovation does not start at the finished product. And FYI we've already OEM'd for about half a dozen small projects; they're not REtrans branded so you wouldn't know otherwise. But we're out there.

>>9041008
There might be a SP for FHTRANS coming up if the current translator decides to go back to it.

>>9041196
Did you do this extraction too? Another proprietary format slightly different from the first, so you're not even consistent within your own work? You probably couldn't completely reuse your previous tools. What a bummer.

It'll be a weirdy (proprietary VN format -> proprietary extraction format -> standard extraction format) but we can convert all these scripts to one format and put them up for collaborative translating.

Dump the cg set instead OP

>>9043924
>insanity
The ``translation community'' is doing well without your autism.

>>9043924
Are you retarded? I seriously don't know if I can tell. I have no idea how anybody with a brain can come to these conclusions you make.

>>9043984
>>9044136
>Let's not turn this thread into another stupid round of personal attacks.

And by "doing well" you probably mean that it works... but the processes are nowhere near as efficient and streamline as they could be. You even call it "hacking" --- a word that conjures up images of cavemen wielding hatchets and communicating with primitive grunts and groans.

>>9042403
Thank you very much

>>9044154
>but the processes are nowhere near as efficient and streamline as they could be
What people care about is getting shit done, and you haven't done anything successful yet.

And don't talk about open standards when you refuse to release your toolset.

>>9044203
Fucking seriously. If you want to actually facilitate work, then stop going on about how everybody should conform to YOUR standards and do what you can to actually help them work on their own. You'll notice that you're the only hacker who tries to extort translators for personal gain and that you can't seem to attract a single one for some reason. I wonder what it could be.

>>9044203
>What people care about is getting shit done, and you haven't done anything successful yet.
Define "successful", because on our end we have had no problems with our infrastructure and as I've mentioned above, we've OEM'd for a handful of clients.

>And don't talk about open standards when you refuse to release your toolset. You can complain and opinionate all you want but our IP is our IP and we decide what to do with it. I've said multiple times before that releasing an infrastructure that was built for our internal use only will be of little value to those who want to accomplish their goals of text extraction/insertion. This is why open standards --- or more precisely, open interfaces to proprietary systems --- is so crucial. Do you think Google or Facebook would release all their source code? And yet millions use them through a standard interface --- HTTP over TCP over IP.

>>9044210
>If you want to actually facilitate work, then stop going on about how everybody should conform to YOUR standards and do what you can to actually help them work on their own.
We didn't invent and standardise CSV. We're following an existing standard and adding specifics to enable its use. It's also not as much about "help them work on their own", as it is about bringing together multiple translators and easing migration between projects to increase overall throughput. I'm not saying you can't do it alone (and given the general disposition of the users here, it's not surprising), but if the systems were not so fragmented and incompatible, I bet we would not see so many abandoned.

>You'll notice that you're the only hacker who tries to extort translators for personal gain and that you can't seem to attract a single one for some reason. I wonder what it could be.
You and your naysayers on /jp/ are the only ones propagating slander, lies, and propaganda against me. And referring to me as a "hacker", how insulting.

>>9044318
>we've OEM'd for a handful of clients.
You have nothing to show besides that failure of FH.

>our IP is our IP and we decide what to do with it.
Exactly what I'm saying, you are only here for the attention.

Stop forcing your shit on people who actually try to get things done.

>>9044341
Do you even know what OEM means? Our name won't be on the product (you might find *some* references if you know exactly what to look for, but in general you wouldn't.) And FHTRANS may be a "failure" to you but that has absolutely no relevance to the fact that we were able to successfully execute our responsibilities as an LTP.

>Exactly what I'm saying, you are only here for the attention.
I have no idea what you mean.

>people who actually try to get things done.
We happen to have a little free time here and can get the scripts ready for anyone to jump in and start translating in a few hours. In fact I've already started a few of the ones here on analysing and converting them. How's that for "get things done"?

>>9044380
>How's that for "get things done"?
The scripts are already easily editable by anyone without being forced to use Excel as a text editor.

Keep trying Cudder.

>>9044403
Trying to spread misinformation and propaganda again? NEVER did I say anyone would be "forced to use Excel as a text editor", and if you RTFP you would see that one of the reasons why we chose CSV is because of the numerous applications out there that can work with it.

>>9044443
Cudder why do you have so many admirers from /jp/? They can't seem to get enough of you, raising shitstorms everytime you post.

>>9043924
>FYI we've already OEM'd for about half a dozen small projects; they're not REtrans branded so you wouldn't know otherwise.
And let me guess--you had to sign an NDA and refused to have your name attached to the project in any documentation and you used a different name so they don't know it's you and we just have to take your word for it because you're such a reliable fellow?

>>9044470
Well, to be fair, having Cudder's name associated with your project would be kind of embarrassing.

>>9043924
> Localiz(s)ation Technology Provider

...is this a joke?

>>9044470
>>9044474
The entire point of OEM is to do the work for someone else and they put their name on it. I know it sounds too convenient of an explanation, but that's how it is.

>>9044488
It was "localization" at first before I realised that the name of the process should embody the same principles as the process itself.

OP: If there's anything worse than a proprietary format it's a proprietary format that's inconsistent. Normalise your bloody linebreaks! This is the sort of thing that someone with only knowledge of translation will have no idea how to deal with. We do the work so you don't have to.

Site is now live:
rechan.eu.org/go/retrans-oip
OP if you want the credentials to manage the site please contact us with proof and we'll arrange to have it handed over along with the information you need to keep it running smoothly. It'll be yours to keep.

We've given you the latest stable build of RWI-AJAX. It should be mostly intuitive: select a project, select a file, select a column (leave everything but 3 alone), and start inputting text. Up/down arrow keys can be used to move between lines. If you have any other questions or concerns feel free to ask.

Everybody please translate!

>>9044757 Normalise your bloody linebreaks!
If that is all you have to complain about, the project is probably pretty fucking awesome.

>>9044768
There's nothing more to complain about since the scripts are now all in a standard format and anyone can go put in a few lines easily.

Now it's only waiting for translators. If I remember correctly there was a site full of people interested in the OreImo stuff.

>>9044794
It thinks people will use her ``translation Technology'' to translate this game. How cute.

>>9042403
Thanks again for earlier, I'm have a related question, if you don't mind. I managed to extract most of the CGs into png, but some of them, probably the animated ones, give me an error in GimConv. Do you know what causes it, and how I can extract them? And on that note, is there still a working download link for gimview.exe around?

>>9042403
Thanks again for earlier, I have a related question, if you don't mind. I managed to extract most of the CGs into png, but some of them, probably the animated ones, give me an error in GimConv. Do you know what causes it, and how I can extract them? And on that note, is there still a working download link for gimview.exe around?

Hey Cudder, I know that asking you to program something that actually works is probably futile, but you should really fix that HTML shit either you or your host is injecting into those TXT files.

Example: /oip/trans/AKYO_0000A.txt

By the way, posting the full URL apparently gets one banned.

Holy shit cudder you can obfuscate anything.
Did you take a business buzzword course? "how to make bullshit sound intelligent"?

I bet you could talk up a pile a steaming shit as a innovative technology.

>>9044757
One of the people who said they hated you above.

I like this style, IF it can be reinserted without issue; i.e. no leftover coding going in.

If R up there takes over like you suggest, I'll do some translation for ye. Just finished the Manami route, but I'll translate as I go for the others, if I can bring myself to do it.
Don't expect greatness; I'm pretty fucking literal.

Also, Cudder, are you getting people to pay you for this?

>>9045211
Also, it doesn't look like your screenshot. There's a bunch of columns. Which does what?

>>9045218
Looks like some of them are like the screenshot.

Tried "EMAN_0039A" as a quick test.

With the header, do I replace it with English? Do I replace the names in that column?

Also, it would be nice to be able to just hit tab and the down arrow to go to the next English text entry spot. Kind of a small thing, but over the course of translating something like this, it'd probably save a significant amount of time (and frustration, as my mouse doesn't work right).

>>9044757
Did you seriously just try to hijack someone else's project after they had already done the hacking work? I'd say this is a new low, but it's kind of not.

>>9045334
You know what would save even more time? A text file instead of an HTML interface. You know, like every translator actually uses.

>>9045379
Check the link in the OP. The files are perfectly editable without any web-based bullshit.

>>9045391
No shit. Cudder's taken then and 'improved' them by making them a thousand times harder to work with.

>>9045716
I actually find that easy to work with, to be perfectly honest. The lines are all perfectly matched up, so it makes it very easy for the person putting the stuff back in as well.

I say this because of a previous incident, where an editor would keep attaching my lines to the wrong statement during a show. As a result, I'd have to go through it again, then he go through it again. This would remove that, I guess.

Still, would like to be able to keep working without taking my hands off the keyboard. THAT seems really, really awkward.

Also, I'll only keep taking stabs at this if R decides he's happy with this setup. It is his project after all.

>>9045890
>where an editor would keep attaching my lines to the wrong statement during a show.
That's because your editor was a retard. Things like this never happen when you work with non braindead people.
But too late, you decided to stick with Cudder, and we all already know how this will end.

>>9045890
If you have people wholesale changing your lines, then this isn't going to help that either.

>>9045999
>>9045938
What? Cudder said the site is R's to do whatever he wants with it.

I can do it in a text file too, but this actually kinda works for me. Makes double-checking easy, and, what with the script for this game being completely all over the bloody place in different files, it helps being able to see that I already have certain ones tackled. Plus, you can drop in and out pretty easily this way, which means I can do this more as a spare time kinda thing, which I like.
Also, if someone else were to start translating a route or two as well, this allows for way easier sharing of work. Would be nice if there was a scrap column for comments and shit, but whatever.

Still, if R doesn't want to do it this way, I'll try out doing it in a text file.

What's this about wholesale changing of lines though? Not really filled in entirely on Cudder; just know that he's like an ill omen for translations.
Like Flyable Heart.

Not that it matters anyway. He provided the site, which was kind of him, and he said it's R's to do with as he likes.
Maybe he's taking notice of what everyone's saying? I dunno.
Again, not all that filled in. Just thought it might be something interesting to do, as I'm playing the game anyway, it's not particularly long, and it's pretty easy going.

>>9046107
Nobody can seriously be this ignorant of Cudder and all-praising of him. Is this your new sock puppet? Are we just waiting for a tripcode finder to generate an OreImo4JP tripcode so we can start spamming this every day for the next year and a half?

One last thing; Cudder said:
>This is the sort of thing that someone with only knowledge of translation will have no idea how to deal with

That is me. Seriously. It's a wonder I'm able to use a computer at all. I'm a fucking idiot with technology.

At the same time though, I have some translation training. So, if I can help without having to mess with stuff (i.e. I just sit and type), I'm much more inclined to do it.

It's a good idea to attract translators by making it easy as piss for them.

However, I still don't know if this is a business for Cudder or something, so the jury is still out.

>>9046126
>I'm a fucking idiot with technology.
You don't know how to type text in notepad/wordpad/word?

>>9046115
NO. I was insulting him above.

>>9039970
Is me.

And yes, I can be this ignorant. I'm not on /jp/ (or anything really) much anymore. Maybe once a week to see if there's something interesting?
That's why I only know the teeniest of details.
Which do make him out to be a cunt, but still, one can always disprove that with future actions, right?

>>9046143
Trying to jack someone else's project without their permission isn't being a cunt?

Okay.png

>>9046132
Formatting.

Of course I can type it, fuckface, but formatting is an issue. I get really hung up on small things, so I like to have all the rules laid out.

If you want me to make a notepad where I type out the game beginning to end for each route, how in the fuck would you reinsert it?

How about ye all just be quiet, wait for R to say his bit, and we'll go from there?
I've already said I'll go along with what he wants to do. If he wants notepad, I'll do notepad.

I just PERSONALLY find that setup easier.

Again, apart from having to go to my mouse after EVERY LINE.

>>9046160
How the fuck can you mess up the formatting in a file like this:

Scene:プロローグ・桐乃編
<001>京介「……桐乃でも誘ってみるか」
<002>お、いたいた。

Cudder really acts like some sort of autism magnet.

BUT IT'S STILL R'S!

GAAAH.

It's like talking to a fucking wall.

I just won't respond until R turns up. I'm a sucker for being baited.

Just one more point though; not everyone does subbing/translation for the "cred" that comes with it (Which I don't understand, because usually people are bitching about how slow you're doing it, with only a small amount of appreciation). A lot do it just to get the bloody thing out in English for others to enjoy.

Even R just picked that so we'd know who OP is.

Fuck, I remember why I began coming here less.

>>9046160
All right. Let me lay it out for you since you seem to be completely fucking ignorant of what a game script even is.

The normal way translation projects work is to disassemble the scripts into whatever format the game itself uses. It's usually some kind of in-house psuedo scripting language because they're all different engines but at their core, they're scripts with things like the speaker, flags, output text, and any other commands that the engine may use for controlling flow and/or other effects. At their core, they are still just text files.

Cudder's belief is that these scripts are too different for any translator to hope to be able to comprehend and they should all be done using a singular format. HIS format. What he neglects to understand is that those unique parts of the scripts are often very useful and sometimes absolutely necessary to understand the scripts in context. Furthermore, exporting lines to another format is about 10 minutes work for anybody with even a shred of programming experience. He's making a mountain out of a Com Sci 101 programming experiment which DAMAGES the scripts and makes them harder to work with so that they can fit HIS idea of what a script should look like which is inherantly flawed. All this delivered through a bullshit facade where he pretends that he's an equipment manufacturer and that illegally breaking through system encryption and security isn't hacking, but some kind of holy crusade.

But that's just what makes him incredibly stupid. There's no shortage of stupid people though. That he takes every project he latches onto and then spends the next year spamming them on /jp/ every 4 hours is what makes him completely insufferable.

>>9046178
Because you're not into sucking cocks and playing at being a lewd little girl? Or am I misunderstanding your post?

I can't wait tomorrow to talk to Cudder again. It's Milky Holmes all over again.

>>9046203
Thank you, as I am completely fucking ignorant of it.

Thing is, the scripts on the site are exactly the one's R ripped. There's nothing in there but text. Maybe that's to do with the way R ripped it, I dunno, but that's what it is. No flags, no splits, no nothing. I was translating as I was going through a scene, and suddenly the script stopped matching; not straight after a choice mind you, just all of a shot. Also, the chance for choices aren't highlighted in the script.

As such, I'm afraid I'm still lost as to why you'd complain about him in this particular case, when R hasn't said either "Fuck you" or "Thank you" yet.

Also, I said I wasn't going to post again, but I'm incredibly pissed off having lost a full file of translation to my mouse spazzing and closing my window (I thought Firefox was supposed to ask you when you are about to close multiple tabs? Mine doesn't), and I want to bitch.
Here isn't really the place for it, but whatever.

Seriously Cudder, make it so you can just tab to the next English line or something with the keyboard.

Only 20 minutes lost, but still, drains the motivation. My fault for not saving it sooner, but you have to enter a captcha and shit.

>>9046261
Another reason why his web interface is retarded as fuck. There are far better ways to do version control than that bullshit.

>>9046261
There's an option in the tabs section of the Firefox options menu to "Warn when closing multiple tabs". Make sure you have that selected.

You can also usually go to the History drop-down menu and select "Restore Previous Session" if you accidentally closed Firefox when you didn't want to.

I was tempted to translate this game, but since you seem eager to do it, I'll leave it to you.

>>9046178
There's only one way to kill a troll: stop feeding them.

I'll work with whatever system a translator prefers, it's hard enough to get somebody interested in the first place.

>>9046261
> I'm incredibly pissed off having lost a full file of translation
That's why you download the files from the OP and use your favourite text editor to edit them.

There's no complicated separators or anything. You really have to be autistic to not understand what you should edit and what you shouldn't:
><061>桐乃「こ、この｛110：エロ！｝　｛120：シスコン！｝」

>>9046368
But the format is completely foreign! Maybe you're supposed to erase the brackets and leave the numbers. And replace all newlines with asterisks. There are so many possibilities! I think I'll do all of them!

>>9046339
Have that ticked, which is the weird thing. It warns me if I go to "Close other tabs" or whatever, but not when I close the browser.
Also, it restored the page, but not the text I'd written out. Don't know why. Even keeps half written 4chan comments, but not that thing.

Also, like I said earlier, I'm not really approaching it like a project, more like a hobby.

If you're up for translating it seriously, go for it.
It might take a while if I was doing it, and I wouldn't be spending as much time on it as I should.

Only reason I volunteered at all was because I thought nothing would happen otherwise, and it would gimme a chance to refresh my Japanese.

>>9046367
You going to take up the offer of the site from Cudder so?

>>9046384
KEEP SHIFT JIS COMMAS OR REPLACE THEM?

I AM PARALYZED WITH DOUBT

>>9046374
H-how do I handle whitespaces? D-d-do I replace them with underscores? Ｗａｋａｒｉｍａｓｅｎ　ＬＯＬ　(´･ω･`)

What do I do with this line?
><set unknown flag>
Do I remove it? Or do I translate it back into Moon?

>>9046368
>>9046374
>>9046384
>>9046389
>>9046398

Gee, I wonder why so many translation project never pan out?

Perhaps it's because the translator decides that they don't owe the people they're translating for any favours.

Can I use '{' and '}' inside the brackets? I need to be able to draw the correct smiley faces.

>>9046414
You're right. Treating translators like gibbering retards and extorting them is how you show respect.

>>9046414
Quality control. Too many abandoned projects either because of Cudder's autisl or because of the braindead ``I'm doing it to improve my japanese'' translators.

No offense of course.

OP, I tried extracting the Imouto Maker Ex bonusgame from the first PSP game, but its *.afs files consist almost entirely of *.bip (which is most likely a soundfile) and *.t2p, and I have no idea how to handle those. In case you know what these are, I'd like to listen.

>>9046423
Again, I don't see the extortion here.

And I fully accept that I'm an idiot in a lot of ways. I just get a mental block when it comes to things like this.
Translation, however, I can do. And I'm willing to do it. The issue is that when things that are not translation pop up, I'm like a bunny caught in the headlights.

>>9046424
I can't tell if that "No offence" is sarcastic or not; I'll choose to believe the latter.

Anyway, ducking out until R posts again saying whether or not he's taking up Cudder's offer of the site. If not, I'll do it in text things.

Would also like to know if this is some kinda business thing on Cuddler's part, but whatever.

Hopefully the thread doesn't disappear before then, as I really don't check here all that often any more.

>>9046588
I've never looked at it before. Does it have GPDA packed files or something completely different?

>>9046640
I had no first hand experience with Cudder until I started this thread. Now I now why the reputation exists and that I want nothing to do with their "team."

>>9046644
I'm not sure, since I'm really new to most of this, but it has no *.dat files in it at all, if that is what you mean. I don't think afs files have a GPDA header

>>9046375
Fair enough then.

My plan is just to start with the first script in R's .zip and just go down the list and translate them one at a time.

My goal is to reach a higher completion % than the translation project for the first game. After that, I'll post random screenshots teasing a full translation, and then I'll suddenly drop off the face of the planet, leaving the project in limbo.

I wish there was some way to keep some long term contact between R, you, and me, like an IRC channel or something. However, fans like it when the status of a project is always hard to determine and when the translators are hard to teach.

>>9046697
>After that, I'll post random screenshots teasing a full translation, and then I'll suddenly drop off the face of the planet, leaving the project in limbo.

I like you.

>>9046697
Use the VNTS thread.

>>9046663
Blah. Just finished another script.
Will type them out in text files so. Need somewhere to send them though.

>>9046697
We could do different routes, if that sort of thing doesn't offend your translator tastes? I'm playing through the game anyhow, so it only takes me a little bit.

Also, I'd recommend playing through while doing it; the audio changes the way I'd approach a lot of lines, what with half the lines being "......" or a random sputtering of "ah"s.

Hell, I'd imagine the only route with any real amount of text would be Kuroneko's.

>>9046261
>>9044757
>Up/down arrow keys can be used to move between lines.

>>9046740
They move you from the English section to the Japanese, ass.

This formatting fine?

Kyousuke: Against that face, it's not like a man could say no.
Manami: Huh? Was I making a strange face?
Kyousuke: Yeah. Without realising it, you put on a face that'd make anyone feel for you.
Manami: ......!
Manami's saying she wants to link arms, right?
That's nothing compared to the "life counselling" I've put up with till now. It's the tiniest thing.

Or should I just leave the quotation marks as they were?

>>9046786
Oh lord.

>>9046697
I'll make a copy of the first game's scripts with my code notes inserted.

I've always hated IRC, I'd have to leave the client open idling.

>>9046799
Fine, whatever. Don't tell me what's wrong with it (or if the problem is that I have to ask).

It's not like I'm trying to help or anything.

Fuck it anyway, I'm going to do something that won't give me a bloody headache.

>>9046786
><004>Kirino「Penis?　Vagina?」
Don't remove stuff...

>>9046786
The brackets are important. The game will treat the word before them as a name and put it at the top-left of the box.

;桐乃「『人生相談があるの』」
Kirino「I need some life counseling.」

>>9046819
Ask yourself this question:
"Does this sound anything like the English language?"

Now look at what you've written again.

>>9046786

>>9046839
Grand. Is line numbering necessary? It's in the second batch, but not the first.

Also, there's nothing but text in the first batch. Even when the game forks after a decision, there's nothing there to indicate that. The text may continue for response A, then, later on in the same text file, suddenly go to response B.

I'm assuming that's all fine?

>>9046855
The line numbers were superfluous, I was using them during testing. I'm modifying my extractor to put the same notes into the first game's scripts now.

>>9046855
Just replace the japanese text and keep the rest.
Dude, make an effort. I know it's a "hobby" and stuff, but, please.

This thread is funny, since before Cudder made the site and put them scripts up no one did anything. And now OP is getting the translators to figure out his own script formatting, all out of some spite for Cudder or something like that.

You're all a bunch of kids fighting over nothing.

>>9046644
Not meaning to be a pest, but I'm still curious, so I uploaded one of the *.afs files which most likely contains the background image files and four files that I already extracted out of it (t2p and bip) in case you are interested.
http://www.mediafire.com/?k27o3q2ab7sua3b

What's going on here? When will I play Oreimo translated for english only peasants?

Here's the first game's script with my code notes.

http://bayfiles.com/file/avHR/tPHz1C/OreImo_P_scripts_with_code.zip

>>9046892
There's nothing to figure out, all the guy needs to do is replace the japanese with the english: open file, replace text, save file.

>>9046911
I saw some MIG headers in there, but I'm only getting files that are 2k, too small for a background image.

>>9046921
Grand.

I don't check /jp/ all that often, so where do I send these things when they're done?

Doing Manami's route, by the way. The code addition really helps.

>>9046920
Never. This is an elaborate hoax. I'm the only guy in here.

>>9046934
You could say that for anything. "Extract the Japanese text, replace it with English." It's a horribly oversimplified view of things. Listen to what the translator himself was saying.

>>9046984
That he's a complete idiot and thought people translated things without using scripts and instead by just listing out lines in a plain text file?

Yeah, we got that.

Will it even work after reinserting the script?.

>>9046984
>You could say that for anything.
Because that's exactly how it is.

>>9046972
I've been keeping my eye on the TLwiki project in case somebody actually was active, so you can either upload it there or stick a link in the discussion.

>>9047032
nope.jpg

Try telling someone who wants to start playing football "just kick the ball into the net".

>>9047276
I get the feeling that you're talking about actually hacking the game and reassembling it, which is about 3 steps backwards of where our illustrious incompetent 'translator' was having difficulties.

>>9047287
Why don't you translate it so?

I bet it'll be done in no time.

>>9047336
Blindly worshipping anyone who knows even a bit of japanese is what leads to failed projects. That, and dealing with Cudder.

>>9047336
I can't even tell what the fuck you're whinging about anymore.

>>9045067
It's the host, and it doesn't matter; they'll show up as a bunch of invalid records at the end that get skipped. We can find another host if you really insist, but this one seems to work well enough.

>>9045211
If OP can't insert, we can do that too.
>Also, Cudder, are you getting people to pay you for this?
The opposite, actually, but you or anyone else won't have to pay for it.

>>9045218
Click on a column number to enter single-column-editing mode. This lets you view the translated and original versions simultaneously.

Keep all the work in column 3. Leave the name column and the others alone. The down arrow key should move the editing position to the next record.

>>9046126
It's free to use for public community projects like this one.

>>9046261
Don't believe the other side too much. All they can do is slander and spread misinformation like they do in tabloids. It's a bunch of trolls following me around like a decaying albatross.

About the inadvertent navigating away from the page issue: We've had an item for it in the issue tracker ("display confirmation dialog if user navigates away from page with unsaved changes") but it's been low-priority. If it happens again we'll consider allocating some time to it.

>>9046663
More objectively, you've blindly followed into the opinion of the sensationalist trolls. One translator was saying earlier how RWI suited him better. Are you really going to make him go down the more difficult "traditional" path out of some irrational hate for me or something like that? It's like those who stay away from anything Microsoft makes, even though it may be the more prudent way.

Don't forget: We can do text insertion too. While we get one-click patch creation and download working too --- direct-from-RWI --- you're making translators contend with loose files in some format they've never seen before.

>>9048451
Keep trying Cudder.

>>9048451
>you're making translators contend with loose files in some format they've never seen before

Like yours, honey bunny?

>>9048451
Please stop referring to yourself as ``we'', Cudder. It is very embarrassing to read.

>>9048451
>Don't forget: We can do text insertion too.
Read the OP once again please, it says "please translate", not "please synergize the translation community with enterprise grade localiz(s)ation solutions".

>>9048553
With RWI, the translator doesn't even have to deal with the files directly. It's like a wiki, only easier. You can translate from anywhere you have an internet connection. No worrying about backups, syncing across multiple computers, etc. Just go to the site and start translating. TLwiki sort of got this idea too, except their interface is more suited to... wiki articles than lines of a VN. Ask yourself this: Why do people use things like iTunes, Gmail, etc.?

Before you think I'm the only one advocating this, go look at the FHA translation project. Different interface, different backend format, same idea.

>>9046203
Let's debunk this piece of "far-right" spin.

>The normal way translation projects work
Note how this wording is specifically trying to ascribe abnormality to anything other than what it's advocating.
>At their core, they are still just text files.
This is purely incorrect if you've worked with anything other than NScripter, KiriKiri, RenPy, etc. A lot of them are built with tools resembling Visual Studio (Visual Novel?) and the only text is that which is displayed.
>HIS format.
Not even considering you got my gender wrong, I already explained in >>9044326
>Furthermore, exporting lines to another format is about 10 minutes work for anybody with even a shred of programming experience.
To get something that looks almost right, but if you want to make sure everything's been accounted for, including the edge cases, it's not trivial.
>those unique parts of the scripts are often very useful and sometimes absolutely necessary to understand the scripts in context
That's why everything besides the text lines is put in separate columns.

The rest of that post is pure slander and lies.

>>9048603 should probably read >>9046892

>>9048756
>>>9048603 should probably read >>9046892
Nobody asked your help. I'm sure OP can handle this by himself without any problem.

Wow, this debacle is still going on?

Last night it was amusing...now though...it seems a little sad to see how long it's gone on.

>>9048554
--> >>9038930
>>9048776
Nobody asked for your opinion either. No wonder you people are always bitter and friendless. "With an attitude like that, who needs enemies!"

VNTL drama general thread

>>9048825
Keep forcing your shit Cudder, maybe someday, someone will bite.

Oi, Cudder, the threads moved on a bit from last night. What point are you trying to make now, or is it still the same subject?

>>9048756
Sorry, honey bunch. I get my information from having been a part of half a dozen successful translation projects. You meanwhile, are flailing helplessly while trying to hijack someone else's work.

Love ya.

>>9048874
If everyone hates him...why don't we just ignore him? I understand that everyone wants to vent their total disgust of things but by giving him attention you're giving him reason enough to continue this tirade.

We can continue this argument through all manners of day and night until the sun explodes but as long as every sides honestly feels they're in the right it won't end.

I'm not saying to give up, but to come to the understanding that some people just can not be reasoned with.

>>9048899
Because he's trying to steal a project from the guy who started it? And because it's fun to watch him flail in his stupidity and utter lack of understanding.

>>9048904
In regards to the first part of that, I didn't realize that was the case and I apologize for that.

Over the days of this thread I've completely lost track of what he's been trying to defend.

At first it seemed like he wanted a unified system that would streamline the process...well, as much as a process like this can be streamlined anyway.

Now...I'm not even sure...

>>9048846
What point? Mostly trying to defend myself from these trolls.

We've got the site set up so you can translate easily. Even the translator says it's a good idea. Use it if you want, don't use it if you want. But don't start saying shit like >>9048874 and >>9048904 because if you're going to call this "stealing" then you should probably say the same to OP. What a hypocritical double standard.

You can look at it this way: In the same way that OP is making it easier for those who don't know Japanese to read the VN, we're making it easier for those who don't want to fuss over the technicalities to translate.

>>9048899
These stupid arguments come about primarily because of the trolls flinging shit at me. If you can't see that I'm getting all this work done and trying to work with the other stakeholders here to streamline the project going forward, then it's just going to continue. Reputation or not, previous projects or not, I think it's about time you guys stopped harrassing me and started discussing things more objectively. Realise that I want this project to succeed and am expending nontrivial effort on it too.

Cudder is my favourite OreImo.

>>9048936
>Getting all this work done

You mean you took his scripts and imported them into ReTrans? Wow. That must've taken you upwards of five whole minutes. That's as many as five ones!

If you spent a tenth the effort working on things people give a shit about instead of posturing and making grandiose bullshit claims about something you think people don't understand, maybe you'd only be hated instead of loathed.

>>9048936
No offense but, staying in a thread that has done nothing but flame you into the ground seems like a lot of trivial time not used in a nontrivial manner.

There is defending yourself and then there is just being a masochist, it's clear how you see it but from my perspective you're straddling that fence.

>>9048936
You aren't trying to help, all you do is force yourself on every translation project you find.

>Even the translator says it's a good idea.
The translator lost an entire file because of your crapware (and his autism).
Basically, this one guy will decides what tools will be forced on this project, right? Nope. Non autistic people know how to use a text editor. And competent programmers know how to reformat a text file.

>>9048946
Look at the times. I believe it was around 05:00 4chan time that I initiated everything. The site went live around 08:30.

Here's an approximate breakdown:
- Initial format analysis ~ 50 minutes
- Documentation and discussion ~ 30 minutes
- Writing import filter ~ 20 minutes
- Generating RWI load package and testing ~ 30 minutes
- Finding and obtaining suitable host ~ 20 minutes
- RWIQuickDeploy upload and post-deployment testing ~ 30 minutes

And note that we're not consuming 100% of the time on this, it's "side-work".

>If you spent a tenth the effort working on things people give a shit about
Like what?

>>9048991
>Finding and obtaining suitable host ~ 20 minutes

It took you 20 minutes to find a host on your own servers.

And 50 minutes to understand the format of a TEXT file.

You are so precious I just want to eat you up.

>>9048991
Like projects that need help.

>>9049003
Eat this instead. I saw it floating aroun close to an hour ago. I'm tired of seeing it.

>>9048959
It doesn't take much time to read and reply. I multitask a LOT so it might look like I'm being slow but that's because I'm doing about a dozen other things at once. And if you were in my position, surely you would also be looking for ways to get your reputation back up instead of letting the trolls take over?

>The translator lost an entire file because of your crapware (and his autism).
You're now insulting the translator too? >>9048825
As I mentioned before this is a known issue, and if he really insists on getting it fixed we'll do it. Losing one "file" (actually, a page of at most 100 lines) and having to do it again is nothing compared to not being able to translate at all when you're away from your main computer and feel like doing some.

>>9049028
>is nothing compared to not being able to translate at all when you're away from your main computer and feel like doing some
Don't force your rotten views on others. I'm sure many people, myself included, prefer using their favourite text editor locally, and commit whenever they want, without any web-based bullshit.

And if you think you are facilitating the translation process it's only because you have never translated anything and simply don't understand how translation projects work.
People don't work on the same file at the same time. Work is separated by route in most cases.
Smarter teams use a proper version control system. I had to use bitbucket once, they provide free private repositories.

>>9049028
>Losing one "file" (actually, a page of at most 100 lines) and having to do it again is nothing compared to not being able to translate at all when you're away from your main computer and feel like doing some.
You're completely delusional, you know that?

>>9049049
---> >>9046107

>Don't force your rotten views on others.
Then what are YOU doing in that post, along with everyone else trying to pull the translator over to the "traditional" way of doing things? Bit of a black pot-kettle problem, isn't it?

>I'm sure many people, myself included, prefer using their favourite text editor locally, and commit whenever they want, without any web-based bullshit.
I don't disagree. But equally there are those who want more hand-holding and the advantages that RWI provides. It goes without saying that we'd want translators to be the latter, but that's because we're a direct stakeholder in that. I'm not too sure what your relation to your advocacy of your methods is though, as the people on your side can't seem to exposit the advantages without spouting vulgarities and resorting to appeal to tradition.

>People don't work on the same file at the same time.
They're not forced to, with either system.

In any case, it's up to the translator. Given that his opinion of RWI was essentially positive before he was coloured by you trolls, I think you should work on being more logically convincing.

>>9049117
>In any case, it's up to the translator.
What will happen if other translators get involved later on? That's right, they'll be forced to use your web interface because the first translator couldn't handle Notepad.

You don't understand how these things work. Hell, are you even interested in VNs?

>>9049137
You could make the same argument about the FHA project. In fact why don't you ask them and see how they reply. Meanwhile, here's what I can come up with: Like that project, since we've converted the scripts to a standard format, anyone can work on them offline if they want to.

>>9049167
>why don't you ask them
Ask who? Google?

>since we've converted the scripts to a standard format
Who asked you to do this? OP already has everything that is needed. Who asked you to hijack the files?

>>9049172
Acting illiterate and going back to slander again? ( >>9048936 )

Looks like you've run out of arguments. I rest my case.

>>9049003
I forgot to address this. 1. The site is NOT hosted on our servers (partly why I could offer it to OP) and 2. Making sure we hadn't left something out that would unexpectedly bite us during the actual conversion took the most time; those inconsistent linebreaks also resulted in much pissing-off and surprise, and another look-over of the files to make sure there wouldn't be anything *else* to deal with.

>>9049212
>Acting illiterate and going back to slander again?
Who asked your help? Show me.

>>9049212
Hey Cudder, is there a rough estimate to when the English patch for Milky Holmes will be released? Thanks.

Why this retard still allowed into 4chan?

>>9049317
He sucked more cocks in his years than you could possibly imagine.