/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>8865486

> Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_novel
> A visual novel [...] is an interactive fiction game.

It cites a book all about this stuff, so I'll take Wikipedia's word for it.

Do you *play* a VN?

>>8865491
BUT IT'S CITING THIS BOOK, NERD.

>>8865500
Yes because it's a game. "Read" is fine too though, since it's also a novel.

>>8865498
>>8865486

> Dani Cavallaro

>>8865504
I don't know who he is but when researching those posts I discovered he's written a few books like this.

He/she must be some sort of expert.

>>8865513

He's just a baka gaijin. Your typical american retard writing about anime on his blog.

>>8865516
Hey man these sound like serious books and not a quick and dirty attempt to make money from half-assed, pointless blog articles at all.

You leave Dani alone, mister.

>The theme of memory has played a significant role in anime throughout its evolution as an art form and as popular entertainment. Anime's handling of memory is multifaceted, weaving it into diverse symbolic motifs, narratives and aesthetic issues. This study aims to provide a detailed analysis of a range of anime titles wherein different aspects of this cultural phenomenon are articulated. It explores anime films and series that exemplify the distinctive signatures placed by particular directors or studios on the treatment of memory, while also highlighting the prominence of memory in anime with reference to specific philosophical, artistic, and historical contexts.

Oh god what.

Was this a high school essay or something?

>>8865538

Probably still better than anything you can write, nerd.

It's not a game it's a book. People don't have Choose-Your-Own-Adventure tournaments.

Oh god I think I am going to become obsessed with this person.

To answer your question, OP, here's the first section from Anime and the Visual Novel:

>This study is the fruit of a deep-rooted dedication to the animated medium at large and to the art of anime in particular, progressively consolidated over time by the exploration of diverse studios and of their multifarious productions within that sector of the contemporary culture industry. Its goal is to delineate the thematic, structural and aesthetic traits of a relatively new-sprung and increasingly popular development within the real of anime: namely, animated series adapted from visual novels. In the real of anime, the term "visual novel" connotes a gaming event of an eminently participatory nature, consistently harnessing the player's own productivity to the generation of the narrative fabric and thus circumventing many of the constraints entailed by more author-centered videogames. The visual novel characteristically dramatizes alternate and interesting story arcs and its ending therefore varies depending on the choices made by the player at certain pivotal "decision points." For the player to experience of all the available--and always partial--solutions potentially entailed by a visual novel, it is necessary to replay the game several times, opting for different routes on each occasion. Relatedly, multiperspectivalism is accorded a cardinal status within the cumulative diegetic construct insofar as the game's take on the
Okay I give up, now he's just inventing words.

>>8865560
What's funny is that Choose Your Own Adventure is a genericized trademark, and those books are actually called "gamebooks".

>>8865565
This guy can't be serious, this has to be sarcasm.

>>8865578
I'd like to say it's just the first page or whatever, but the whole book seems to be like this:
http://books.google.com/books?id=GmlACkJzvRwC&printsec=frontcover
All 262 pages of it.

This has to be a series of Markov chains or something. If it is and this actually sold more than ten copies, Dani Cavallaro is a genius.

>>8865576
>gamebooks
Oh god, I might vomit if I get any further into this conversation.

>Overly pretentious and a chore to read, Anime and the Visual Novel is less about the actual content in question and more about the author's seemingly endless ability to string together flowery words of little substance. It certainly isn't written for anime fans; its explanatory nature of even the most basic concepts related to anime and visual novels may be confusing even to those already acquainted with them.

>Consider the following except: "Relatedly, multiperspecivalism is accorded a cardinal status within the cumulative diegetic construct insofar as the game's take on the action alters according to the point of view from which it is tackled by different personae." Essentially, over 30 words just to basically say, "The stories are different based on what persona you play as." At worst, the author's tone is condescending and unaware of their audience. At best, it's essentially on par with the same trite you'd typically find on anime blogs that try their hardest to relate entertainment primarily aimed at Japanese teenagers and young adults to their conventions of high culture.

>If you absolutely must read another intellectual expose/writer's masturbation session on anime and visual novels, you'd do much better by simply saving your money and looking up one of the many thousands of anime blogs online. There are many that essentially say the exact same thing in the exact same lengthy, psuedo-intellectual, hackish style.

I can't believe a human being actually bought this book.

>>8865565

>Relatedly, multiperspecivalism is accorded a cardinal status within the cumulative diegetic construct insofar as the game's take on the action alters according to the point of view from which it is tackled by different personae
Holy fuck. I've read patents that were easier to understand.

http://thisebook.org/download/anime-and-the-visual-novel-narrative-structure-design-and-play-at-the-
crossroads-of-animation-and-computer-games.html

You can now experience this book in all its retarded glory.

>>8865715
Spam site.

If anyone finds a PDF (this is available in ebook format) please post it.

Wow, he tries to connect Zen Buddhism and "the kawaii boom" (sic) on page 24ish. This guy. This guy.

>>8865687
I understood it perfectly.

...I really spend too much time reading pretentious shit on the internet, I guess.

>>8865743
I really don't get it. On one page she rambles on about chaos theory, then somehow connects that to Key's VNs.

This has to be some sort of algorithm, or the author is a schizophrenic.

>>8865734
It's one of those retarded cpableed survey shit, I've seen there's a way to get past them.

About the Author
Dani Cavallaro has written widely about literature, cultural theory, and anime. She lives in London.

>>8865784
Well, we've finally figured out who Princess of the Crystal is.

>>8865687
>Relatedly, multiperspecivalism is accorded a cardinal status within the cumulative diegetic construct insofar as the game's take on the action alters according to the point of view from which it is tackled by different personae
Hey, /jp/ let's make this passage even more pretentious and opaque.

I'll start:
>Related to the previous argument, narrative polyphonicism is apically positioned within the cumulative diegetic intermesh insofar as the pronouncements of the screen-projected epic aided by the omnipresence of graphics dynamically metamorphize with proportion to the perspective from which it is modally addressed by variegated personae of the principle cast.

Tech support is leveraging core skillsets and world-class team synergy through reusable design-pattern-oriented workflow methodology and evidence-based response diagrams to provide clients worldwide with robust, scalable, modern turnkey implementations of flexible, personalized, cutting-edge Internet-enabled e-business application product suite e-solution architectures that accelerate response to customer and real-world market demands and reliably adapt to evolving technology needs, seamlessly and efficiently integrating and synchronizing with their existing legacy infrastructure, enhancing the e-readiness capabilities of their e-commerce production environments across the enterprise while giving them a critical competitive advantage and taking them to the next level.

This girl owns more books than I own games. However, all of those books she owns are dictionaries and thesauruses.

>The first parameter describes polyphonicism diegetic up in intermediate terms of coalition, preposterous describing proportions based on screen time of universal statements, conducted by a dynamic metamorphose in perspective, that adequate variety in position number, modally addresseing personae of the principle cast.

My guess is the publisher request a 200+ page book, but she could only write 50 pages then got stuck. Then she found some sort of shareware program that finds the longest/rarest synonyms for every other word, and adds "padding" sentences that don't really mean anything. The result was this book.

>>8865925

That would be extremely useful for my university papers...
If anyone has access to any of these programs, please post.

>>8865932

If I knew how to program I'd make one.
Seems rather easy:

Take a list with ~50000 seldom used words
Define them in Verbs, Nouns, Adjectives, etc.
Define 2 default orders of sentences: direct and indirect (indirect being more used)
Sets a random factor to choose the words.
Voilá

>>8865943

Basically that, but it should also create long sentences, with lots of commas, so the reader gets lost and just check the next paragraph instead of trying to understand a meaningless, yet coherent looking long sentence.

>>8865943

> ~50000

There should be much more, actually. Perhaps 50000 words for each class (verb,noun,etc.). But then it would be too much of a hassle to find so many "rare words"

>>8865932
>>8865961
>>8865956
>>8865943

Someone open a github and set this up.
Everyone from /jp/ can then add their own list of pretentious words.
We could even write a book that way, just to see the result.

>>8865961
A lot of online generators have rarity values for each word. There's probably a public list out there or something.

>>8865992

I am not a programmer though. Would be of no use to me.

I really should begin reading that K&R...

A Visual Novel is a Visual Novel, for fuck's sake!
It's not a game.
It's not a book.
It's a fucking Visual Novel.
Why is this so hard?!

>>8866034
"I ______ed a visual novel yesterday!"

Fill in the blank. Go on, TRY.

>>8866057

downloaded

>>8866057

read/watched

It's a Novel (you read shit), but it's also Visual (you watch shit)

>>8866073
Who the HELL watches a visual novel?

If you set any VN to auto for the whole story it would take YEARS.

>>8865565
>>8865538

it's like Kant is writing about anime.

Lately /jp/ has been meaner, shittier, and less pleasant. Bagging on some woman who wrote bad books seems like a manifestation of this.

I don't know what to do. This doesn't feel like my board. Obviously I'll never leave but it hurts anyway.

>>8866107
Fuckin pussy

Give me your lunch money

To answer your question we have to come to a decision of what defines a "game."

>>8866121


winning and losing?

>>8866121
Playing and not playing.

>>8866134
What about games where there is no winning--like Tetris?

>>8866157
What is "playing"?

>>8866114

This is the internet and therefore that's unfeasible. i don't believe you thought that request through.

>>8866176

there might be no winning in tetris, but there certainly is losing

>>8866178
Well, you just like to highlight peoples' shortcomings don't you?

>>8866197
Like a bad end?

>>8866202
Yandere ending with Z-block was the best.

>>8866202

indeed. so a visual novel is a game. i'm glad we finally solved that quandry

>>8866176
Winning in tetris is beating a score you intended to beat you dumbass.

>>8866209

It's not.

>>8866215
So a set personal goal could be considered as much as winning as a task defined by rules of the game?

If you consider scrolling through your t.v. guide a game.

Yes

No.

VNs are not a game.

However, I would like to see the pretentiousbot come to fruit.

>>8866307

Ah, we can only dream...

gal game
ero game

>>8866307
>>8866314

I thought there were quite some programmers on /jp/ ?

>>8866318
There might be one or two, but most are just making baseless claims.

There we have it, /jp/ !

https://github.com/auREAX/papergen

Now we need to provide the words we want to be used.

Post enormous lists of long, rare words over the issues section.

To create an account is extremely easy and needs no email confirmation. Literally less than a minute.

>>8866465
Maybe
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Frequency_lists
or
http://www.wordfrequency.info/
?

Frequency lists are basically what they sound like:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_list

/jp/, post all your ideas over the "issues" section of https://github.com/auREAX/papergen

>>8866482
I'd rather you edit it in here:
https://github.com/auREAX/papergen/wiki/Word-list

Instead of creating an issue for every new word you want to add.

Rare words

http://phrontistery.info

http://invokeit.wordpress.com/frequency-word-lists/ has lists in .txt format, and they're just
[word] [frequency in subtitle database]
all the way down.

Not sure if subtitles are the best corpus though, since pretentious words are either used too little in movies or too often.

As this aims to create a long text that has no deep meaning, I suggest the use of MANY adjectives. A 3:1 adjective:noun ration should do it.

>>8866504

* http://phrontistery.info/clw.html

>>8866521
Because why say something when you can qualify it three times over?

The Wiktionary list XML dumps have word classes, I think. Not sure how it'd work though. I want to know how
http://www.watchout4snakes.com/CreativityTools/RandomWord/RandomWordPlus.aspx
works.

https://github.com/auREAX/papergen/wiki/Word-list

If it has choices -> yes
If it doesn't -> no

Likewise, would you call watching YouTube a game?

>>8867890
Do you play youtube videos?

If you play -> yes.
If don't play -> no.

Ebooks are digital and interactive. You flip through pages and depending on the font size and how large the screen of your reader is, you may even have scroll up and down. There are no pictures, but then again, NetHack didn't have any either. Heck, if it's a "choose your own adventure" kind of book, it's basically just a VN without pictures and music.

So if you insist on calling VNs games, you must also do the same with ebooks.

It's nothing more than a glorified picture book.

>>8868043

THIS. It's text with images. Not a agme at all.

>>8868043

THIS. It's text with images. Not a agme at all.

>>8867890
http://youtu.be/tUIu6_eTkjY

VNs are not games. Not even Japan considers them so.

They are simply interactive software that started on the PC-98 system and have continued since. CG art and voice acting don't magically make them a game either.

Wikipedia, the canonical source of all human knowledge has this to say on the subject of video games:
> A video game is an electronic game that involves human interaction with a user interface to generate visual feedback on a video device.
> An electronic game is a game that employs electronics to create an interactive system with which a player can play.
> Play is a term employed in psychology and ethology to describe a range of voluntary, intrinsically motivated activities normally associated with recreational pleasure and enjoyment.

I would say VNs fit the bill. They're fun, but recreationally fun. Books aren't "fun" as such, they're entertaining. Clicking is fun. Click click click. Turning a page is just a means of getting to the next bit. That's boring. Pages are shit.

I hate when grey area stuff like this happens. It gives those people who insist on rigorously defining everything a chance to say, "I told you so."

Does vndb have some sort of page explaining what counts as a visual novel like AniDB does for anime? Or is it all just user-controlled? They have games like the Ar Tonelico series and Hyperdimension Neptunia, but not games like Tales of Symphonia (shut up--those skits had character sprites, choices, and ADV-style dialogue).

Who the fuck cares anyway? It's all subjective.

>>8869316
>VNs are not games. Not even Japan considers them so.
Someone on /jp/ told me the opposite once. I don't speak Nihongo, but https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ビジュアルノベル seems to suggest they do.
After all, plenty of visual novels are considered eroge, galge etc.

Adventure games are games. I mean, nobody would question Snatcher was a game. Yet the story was still very linear and you only had a few choices in any given situation.

>>8869316
>VNs are not games. Not even Japan considers them so.
Which is why they don't use terms like "eroge", "nukige", "moege", etc., to refer to VNs, am I right?

VN is a visual novel. Nothink else. It's not a game nor a book. Just a novel, that happens to be visual.

This is only confusing because people insist on using the term visual novel.

>>8870206

What would they call it if not Visual Novel?

>>8870211
jADV

>>8870230

Why?

>>8870230
Not all visual novels are adventure games.

>>8869310
*some exceptions may apply.

But in general, watching video is a highly non-interactive experience.