/jp/ - Otaku Culture

He also said if he wrote Madoka after watching Heartcatch it wouldve been a normal magical girl show where courage and love triumph

lol at comparing fucking MADOKA to evangelion, jesus christ

Did anyone ask about Saya no Uta?

>Remove a couple "deus ex machina."
>Deconstruction.

Maybe Urobuchi should stop caring about what he writes and just do it.

>>8856091
He was giving an example, captain homo.

>deconstruct
What the fuck?
Did he really use deconstruct?
Who would actually use it seriously?

Q: Madoka is considered a deconstruction of magic girl shows.


this is what Madoka fanbase actually believe

>>8856107
I believe there must have been something lost in translation there.

>>8856107
Sounds like he was deconstructing the question there.

>>8856091

I know, Eva just kind of fell apart at the end when they ran out of money, Madoka had all that Bake cash to create a complete decent anime.

>>8856118

LOVE AND FRIENDSHIP WILL CONQUER ALL*

*until you turn into a witch and magical girls try to kill you for being an abomination, assuming they don't learn their fate and start killing each other a la preventative medicine

the NGE of our generation

>>8856135
So why didn't they?
That's also not how studio economics works

Madoka obviously takes a different approach to the idea of "transforming girls coming of age in a magical setting." In particular the idea of "growing up" is treated in a new way, don't let a few idiots confusing the words "subversion" and "deconstruction" blind you to this.

Madoka actually brought nothing new in term of plot and storyline.
But I do like it and the only reason why it was so successful was due to Urobochi bringing in VN/eroge element into the anime medium.
Timeloop, betachomp & UBW style sacrifice were all taken from successful eroge.
Cant forget homuhomu as well.
He didnt invent anything new, but I guess he did a great copy and paste job.

>>8856155

Oh please, child, get off Anno's cock. He's a college dropout. The fact that he ever got the director's chair in Japan is fucking astonishing. They were waiting for a reason to rip the financial rug out from under him.

>>8856159
>confusing the words "subversion" and "deconstruction" with "doing something that probably hasn't been done that way before"

Fixed you there.

>>8856091
Eva is so deep.

>>8856159
what kind of new way?

I like how Madoka fans always said something like "holy shit, this has never been done before, it's a whole new contribution...etc" but they never explain which part

I fucking dare him to deconstruct the Moe phenomenon. I dare him

>>8856175
Because thinking Madoka has shitty animation and was made on a barebones budget means I'm riding Anno's cock?

Whatever you say, broham.

>>8856182
He was talking to the kids

>"I wonder if a person over the age of twenty who likes gaint robot or cute girl anime is really happy. He could find greater happiness elsewhere. Regrettably, I have my doubts about his happiness."

>"As I was making this work I wanted to try to consider what in the world could the 'happiness' of such a person be?"

gospel, bring blessing

That's also the first reason why this show call EVANGELION

yeah, it also sounds complicated

atleast Anno's always stayed true to himself

Deconstruction in Japanese doesn't quite have the same nuance as it does in English.

>>8856204
>Anno's always stayed true to himself

el oh el

This reminds me where we come from, also:

Sakura-con question panel :
>Q: Touhou is considered a deconstruction of shump games. Are there any other genres you'd be interested in doing a deconstruction of?

>ZUN: Well, Touhou is not the first game to deconstruct a genre; Mario Kart deconstructed the racing games and HRtP did the same with arkanoid. Perhaps all the games I write will be deconstructions.

>Q:What is a deconstruction

>ZUN:You lost me.

>>8856224
Look at Urobuchi interview

Does he dare to admit that he was influenced by Kamen Rider Ryuki, no, he just said he like Ryuki but it was very common setting.

Anno always said he was infulend by lots of early works and said he did't use any new method in NGE

But hypocrisy hack like Urobuchi dared to talke about deconstruction

Except it's not a deconstruction at all. It uses tropes that already existed in magical girl shows to great effect but deconstructed none of them.

If you think it's a deconstruction go watch Kamikaze Kaito Jeanne, or read the Sailor Moon manga.

He's falling for his own hype. People think it's a deconstruction who are only marginally familiar with the genre.

Don't compare Madoka to Evangelion.

madoka a shit

Only good thing about Madoka is HomuHomu

On an unrelated note how is Kikokugai?
Shit?

>>8856284
Oh it's a good show, it's just calling it a deconstruction is laughably ignorant.

>>8856295
It's only a few hours long. Just read it.

What exactly is a deconstruction, by the way? It seems like one of those words everyone likes to throw around, but that no one really knows what it means.

>>8856282
>Except it's not a deconstruction at all. It uses tropes that already existed in magical girl shows to great effect but deconstructed none of them.

You had me here.

>If you think it's a deconstruction go watch Kamikaze Kaito Jeanne, or read the Sailor Moon manga.

Then you lost me here.

Why is there a lot of madoka futa? It almost compares to the amount of touhou futa.

>>8856315
There are no men so futa is the obvious choice if you want dicks in your porn.

>>8856315
All girl cast.

>>8856309
Have you read Kamikaze Kaito Jeanne or read the Sailor Moon manga?

I think you'll know what I'm talking about if you have.

>>8856315
futa is a buzzword in japan, stop use that word to call the fanbase

you fucktard

>>8856319
I don't think you know what deconstruction means.

Hint: It has fuck-all to do with your Chinese comic books.

>>8856307
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deconstruction

TL;DR, the general identifiable trait is that it takes the tropes and conventions of an accepted archetype and displays everything that's flawed about it.

>>8856322
What are you even talking about?

The thing I hate most about Madoka is that it brought people who had never seen a Magical girl show. Just prior Shaft fans and prior Urobuchi fans.

Also Evangelion is not a deconstruction. It's just a robot show that had a shitty end.

>>8856326
>TL;DR, the general identifiable trait is that it takes the tropes and conventions of an accepted archetype and displays everything that's flawed about it.

That's not right at all, try reading the link you post next time.

>>8856307
It's a type of meaningless literary criticism, it's not worth taking the time to fully understand it. The issue is that idiots take this and call entire fictional works deconstructions in order to make it seem smart.

People are bitching about Urobuchi for using it, but I'm sure something got lost in translation.

>>8856347
>a tendency to subvert or pull apart and examine existing conventions
Hurr to the durr

Sailor Moon did it first

eat shit, Urobuchi

Sailor Moon turned the whole 魔法少女 genre into 戦闘美少女

>Until the appearance of Sailor Moon, the original term mahō shōjo in Japan referred primarily to girls who did not transform themselves and who used magic for acts of mercy and succor rather than for heroism against evil

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/魔法少女

>>8856342
How is that any different than hating something because it's popular? You're an idiot.

Too bad but Urobochi being a shit tier writer nullifies any of his opinions.

>>8856360
You might want to read more so you have some context and don't look like an idiot. It has nothing to do with tropes.

>>8856370
Protip: What do we call existing conventions that are have become exceptionally prolific?

>>8856375
It's completely different if you're not an idiot.
Hating something because its popular is hating something because other people like it.

The people Madoka brought think it's the first and/or most original magical girl show ever and hype the show up with their ignorant uneducated opinions. It's not that they like it, it's that they had wrong ideas and continue to hold wrong ideas.

>>8856394
Seriously, read the fucking article. You're an idiot. It's philosophical bullshit about how languages work, not "showing what's flawed with a trope."

>>8856326
Why are you quoting the wikipedia article when it says nothing even remotely similar to your made-up definition?

>>8856406
Awwww. Is the poor baby sad because I was could quote the part showing I'm right and he can't find anything supporting him? There there, little guy. Go have an Oreo and some warm milk while I find you your binky.

>>8856418
>Deconstructionism is a philosophical theory of literary and other artistic criticism.
>The term deconstruction was coined by French philosopher Jacques Derrida in his 1967 book Of Grammatology, and deconstruction itself grew out of the semiotics theory of linguists such as Ferdinand de Saussure, who explored the way systems of meaning work in language. Although he carefully avoided defining the term directly, Derrida sought to apply Martin Heidegger's concept of Destruktion or Abbau, to the critical analysis of written language; literature, in particular.[1] Heidegger's term referred to a process of exploring the categories and concepts that tradition has imposed on a word, and the history behind them.[2] Derrida opted for deconstruction over the literal translation destruction to suggest "precision" rather than "violence".[1]
>Deconstruction is mainly associated with literary theory.
>In describing deconstruction, Derrida famously observed that "there is nothing outside the text." That is to say, all of the references used to interpret a "text" (generally a piece of art or literature) are themselves "texts", including the "text" of reality as a reader knows it. By this definition, there is is no truly objective, non-"textual" reference from which interpretation of a work can begin. Deconstruction, then, can be described as an effort to understand a text through its relationships to various contexts.[3] E.g. one can have a "feminist deconstruction" of a novel which examines the roles of its female characters through the lens of feminist philosophy, or one could "deconstruct" a mythological story in terms of the values of its originating culture.

And that's just the first section. Now fuck off back to /a/.

>>8856427
Yep. And that's part of existing conventions, champ. Keep trying though.

yalls mad

>>8856183
Simply put the approach to coming of age is less about growing in to a role or physical maturity as it usually is, even in atypical magical girl stuff like Kamikaze Kaitou Jeanne or even something even more unusual like Lyrical Nanoha or Strike Witches, as it is about coming to a new understanding of things. Realizing what you don't know more than learning new things or acting in new ways (as such). And the idea that growing up isn't necessarily good or desirable for the one who's growing up is very much a new thing in this genre. The contrast between Madoka and the other characters, especially Sayaka but also Kyouko and Mami in more indirect ways sheds light on this. I wouldn't call it a "deconstruction" though since it's not a philosophical work about language or culture (or whatever Derrida last said it means, I don't really think it's a useful concept at all) but it meets the pop culture definition on a deeper level than people give it credit for.

>>8856447
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent

>>8856402
Only children judge a work by it's fans.

>>8856402
It is incorrect to judge a show based on its fans and their opinions.

>>8856460
And cartoons are for children.

>>8856455
>Kamikaze Kaitou Jeanne
>Lyrical Nanoha
>Strike Witches
fucking madotard everwhere

go watch Momo first, retarded

or at least seen Princess Tutu or Magical DoReMi then we can have talk

>>8856465
No it's not.

Additionally I didn't say I hate the show, I said that it is a thing I hate about the show. The thing I hate most to be specific.

The thing I like best is the music.

>>8856455
I found the show mediocre at best with an atrocious fanbase. It was supposed to entertain, it failed, and trying to give it some deep, philosophical meaning is a shitty copout.

>>8856491
>>>/a/

>>8856492

>Momo

Is that the one from the 80s where the girl loses in the end?

Who let /a/ in here?

>>8856499
I agree that the show was mediocre. Certainly not bad, but I couldn't sympathize with any of the characters and it seemed like it could have been done much better.

>>8856506
I don't know, but the nerd that was arguing with me without even reading his source got told HARD. I hope he goes and cries to his /a/ friends.

The most he did was inject concepts of "survival of the fittest" and Camus-esque ideas of "rebellion against the Absurd."

Could that really be considered a deconstruction?

>>8856526
We only like Homu here.

oh god, Madoka fanbese in /jp/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madoka_a_shit

I liked the part where Madoka threw Sayaka's

>>8856529
F*ck homu

>>8856529
Homu a shit.

>>8856551
>>8856547

>>8856522
I don't know, it's certainly very different. I've heard more retarded things, even in this thread.

>>8856556
She's a shitty, stupid character who fucked up everything several times. Homu is the worst time traveler I have ever seen. She's pathetic, stupid, annoying, and generally unlikeable.

>>8856564

I can't wait until I finish watching all these old magical girl animes so I can watch Madoka and understand its deconstructions so I can talk about h0mu on jp without being a clueless loser

While you're discussing this, does anyone have a working link to the homura combat patch? I can't get it from the site here
http://ohbado.sakura.ne.jp/index.htm

>>8856574
Does the patch make the game any less bad? Because I got it right after it came out and it was really bad.

>>8856517
You're cute. Retarded, but cute.

>>8856573
Just watch Smile Precure instead. Old magical girl shows are boring.

>>8856579
It's the same as the Marisa EDF knockoff. Did you hate that too?

>>8856589
You mean the way she fought level-headed?

>>8856564

The only thing different about Madoka was the way Mami fights.

>>8856587
Are you still here?

>>8856603
Okabe.

>>8856595
Find me a worse time traveler. Seriously. It'll be hard.

>>8856564

I liked the part where Kyubey was elated because she was giving him exactly what he wanted by making Madoka more powerful.