/jp/ - Otaku Culture

i want to die

>>8756365
I only wish I didn't have to study for college. If it wasn't for that, I'd be quite happy with my life.

But I guess it's not so bad even with that. I mean, I don't have to deal with society as much as the vast majority of people out there, so I count myself as being extremely fortunate.

I think half the people here is starving half the time from what I have read. So not sure about that, I am not having a hard time myself though.

>>8756365

brooding underage teenagers

look at this guy

> Why are people on /jp/ so depressed?
Not everybody is. I'm not.

Some things do happen to upset me, but if they are resolvable, a goal to solve them after deciding on a solution is adopted, if it's not resolvable, why should I bother caring?

> What more could you want?
Sometimes I find myself not having enough hours in a day, 24 is rarely enough. Imagine that. How I wish one could change the rate of subjective experience. Other times, much more rarely, there is too much time is... wasted.

Some other people also have trouble getting interested/motivated in doing anything at all, but I find that a bit strange myself.

My whole life I've never felt right as a man. I would give everything if it meant I could be a woman and live the life I was meant to.

>>8756383
Normalfag detected.

This life has no meaning.

I have a job and a real girlfriend.

>>8756394
No possible life can hold any meaning.
You are the one to decide what goals you want. The only thing you have to do that are your general intelligence and some semi-random biological biases/motivations. You're free to do anything you could possibly want, if only you could realize what you can possibly do.

>>8756392
please don't bully

Elevation of expectations.
After watching all those cool people in anime and video games do those insane sword/gun/magic powers, Rance fucking everything that moves, gensokyo filled with beautiful waifus, all that amazing shit, any life we can possibly live seems boring and tedious.

>>8756376
Same here.

Are you me?

>What more could you want?

Happiness. While it is true that I have unlimited time in the world and have no need to work, it's not a nice thing just sitting wasting your life on the PC with depression so bad it just makes you want to cry.

>>8756401
look at
>>8756398
Real Life is shit, plain and simple. Nothing worth doing, really. Might as well stay in my room and play video games.

Due to my family situation, I am forced to leave the house many times a week. I don't have to interact with many people, and for the few people that I have to interact with it only lasts a few minutes, but I wish I was able to stay in my room more. Some days I am able to stay in my room all day, though, other than getting food and such. Things could be worse, I suppose.

>perfect lives

Please elaborate on what exactly this "perfect life" consists of.

>>8756403
Probably not, unless I actually have multiple personalities and didn't know it, and one of them is you. If that's so though, that would be really fucking awesome.

>>8756410
> Real Life is shit, plain and simple. Nothing worth doing, really. Might as well stay in my room and play video games.
That only says you didn't yet fully evaluate what are the ultimate limits of what is possible in "Real Life". I'm not going to judge anyone for doing what they immediately enjoy, that's a perfectly valid answer, but it's just one of many possible answers (and nothing says you have to limit yourself to just one goal - some things can improve your quality of life while allowing you to better enjoy your other experiences).

>>8756423
A life where you either have something worth working toward as a major goal to motivate you to continue existing, or at the least, a life where you don't have to worry about failing the expectations of those who have to take care of you.

Bonus points if it's a life where I can take care of myself without having to interact with other humans at all.

I just want to laze around and have people to talk to, I suppose doing nothing and browsing /jp/ isn't that bad though.

I get depressed past 10 PM. Central time. I don't understand why. From 7 AM to 10 PM I can be incredibly optimistic and love everything, and look past everything bad or upsetting. I actually have a few real world goals that I try to achieve, and during the day that keeps me positive and happy. But then at night, all of a sudden I can't even delude myself anymore.

Anyone else have a similar pattern?

Enough income to erase my fear of homelessness and to stop this facade of "wanting to be helped" .

Enough imagination to delude myself into thinking I'll get another go after I die / or "to enjoy the company of an imaginary friend".

Enough confidence to not spend every day worrying that my last friend will someday hate me, when I love him.

Enough stability to not spend all day every day talking to myself to the extent that I can't concentrate long enough to perform a simple task like making a drink without losing track of what I'm doing.

That said, I'd never want to be anyone else.

>>8756443
We don't have this problem in Eastern Standard Time.

I've been happy ever since I decided to give up on real life completely and begin exploring my mind.

I never feel alone or bored anymore, even though I technically am completely alone. My time is fully occupied with lucid dreaming, imaginary friends, or just regular hobbies like reading eroge or daydreaming.

Giving up is really all it takes to be happy. The only time I was ever unhappy is when I was undecided on whether I wanted to give up or try to find a way to be happy in the real world. Existing in that limbo is what makes you miserable, but the mind is a great thing and it will learn to make you happy once you've given into the isolation.

Did you know that I can actually hear her inside my head? We're having a conversation right as I type this post actually. It's all because of my mind. It adapts to accommodate you once you have fully given into loneliness and isolation and soon those imaginary friends and fantasies aren't so imaginary anymore.

>>8756447
"Enough imagination to delude myself into thinking I'll get another go after I die / or "to enjoy the company of an imaginary friend"."

You'll need to stop thinking of it as a delusion if you want it. And then, after that, the only thing that's required is love.

For humans, what they believe is what they want to believe. It's as simple as that. Whether or not it's likely to be true or not, has nothing to do with it. And this isn't such a bad thing. After all, it's these "delusions" that allow us to live a bit happier than we otherwise would be able to.

>>8756398

You literally can learn to become a boss with a gun or sword. Some people have jobs just showing off with a gun or sword.

You literally can get to the point where you can hook up with random girls, and it is possible to find gorgeous girls who enjoy acting like what you're looking for.

You just don't want to work for it.

Most of us have to fight for those aspects of life.

Some actually have to work because they have no money, or parents force them to look for jobs. Or have to deal with scrutiny everyday from parents or guardians.

>>8756460
Being stuck on the boundary between two things is generally always a surefire way to make you miserable.

I know exactly how you feel, so very well.

>>8756476
I want to become 2D. How do I do that, wise guy?

>>8756448
Yeah, but your timezone is godless and communist.

If I were rich I wouldn't be depressed. My lifestyle would be perfect.

>>8756460

>Did you know that I can actually hear her inside my head? We're having a conversation right as I type this post actually.

This is your future, /jp/.

Lamenting the past and worrying about the future prevent me from being happy. I can't stay a NEET forever. Society won't allow it.

>>8756472
I really wish I could. I've managed to get myself semi-believing in the multiverse, so at least if I get a terrible life it means another me has been spared it. But that's as far as I've manage to get. Everything else is flawed by the nagging belief that once I die, that's it. Maybe I'll eventually reach the point where I can believe it, but I can't yet, I simply lack the imagination. That causes even more worries, what if the afterlife is what you think you're going to get? A christian will get the heaven or hell they think they deserve, I'll get the nothingness unless I can truly believe.

Sometimes I wonder if medication would detach me enough to be happy, but I like me, and would hate to lose me due to medication altering how I think.

It's fun getting to talk at another person about these things instead of myself.

>>8756483
Get a key for Caterpillar heavy equipment equipment. Then go to a road construction site and use the stream roller. Be sure to do it head first, otherwise it is going to hurt like hell.

>>8756460
I fully explore my mind and still strive for goals in the real world. I have an imaginary friend I speak with, I sit around day dreaming, and practice lucid dreaming, and all that shit. It's still possible for me to work towards goals.

Being in limbo between the two decisions is hell, yes, but giving up completely on one isn't the only way. You can have both. It's just harder.

>>8756503
It's my present.

>>8756476

>You just don't want to work for it.

Why work for it when you can dream about it?

>Never tell the truth when a lie will do.

Words of wisdom from our Cardassian friends.

Why bother going through the trouble of getting these things in real life when I can dream about them tonight, tell myself that it is real, and enjoy it just as much? If you can lie to yourself and actually believe it then you will be the happiest man on the planet.

>>8756500
Same here.
I can't do anything at all, I have no idea what I could do to feed myself.
I guess the government will force in some physical labour shit until I either kill myself or work up the courage to see a shrink.

>>8756476
>You literally can get to the point where you can hook up with random girls, and it is possible to find gorgeous girls who enjoy acting like what you're looking for.

Who in the actual fuck wants to "hook up" with random sluts or whatever that phrase means?

Please go back to >>>/soc/, or kill yourself out of /jp/.

Swords. I want swords, lots of awesome swords.


That's about it, really.

>>8756509
> I really wish I could. I've managed to get myself semi-believing in the multiverse, so at least if I get a terrible life it means another me has been spared it. But that's as far as I've manage to get. Everything else is flawed by the nagging belief that once I die, that's it. Maybe I'll eventually reach the point where I can believe it, but I can't yet, I simply lack the imagination. That causes even more worries, what if the afterlife is what you think you're going to get? A christian will get the heaven or hell they think they deserve, I'll get the nothingness unless I can truly believe.
An immortality belief, even one in a "gensokyo" is actually easy enough to acquire if you have a non-materialistic computationalist belief, but doing so also gives you a guidebook how to attain it by yourself... Of course, this requires actually understanding the math and ideas behind it to actually *believe* it as very likely true. Sort of like someone wouldn't believe that the Many-Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics is a lot more likely than the wide majority of other interpretations of QM without understanding the underlying issues involved. Immortality belief is easy, happy immortality belief is harder - you end up thinking about your measure in the multiverse and other distructions/scenarios as well as how morality/ethical theories in such a world that it might just be more "healthier" to live a simple life ignoring all these issues for now and just face them when the time comes.

>>8756521
A lot of people seem to forget they don't have to live within society. If you honestly can't do any work and it's only a matter of time before you're screwed, you could always just go wander. I mean, if you have nothing left, you're not losing anything. If you come back alive, hey, you've accomplished something just about everyone is afraid to do.

Or you could become a criminal. That'd pay the bills.

>>8756509
Is it because you're afraid of the "nothingness" that might await you after death? If it weren't for that, would you be able to let it go?

Think about it. Compared all of the many other possibilities for what could happen after you die, that "nothingness" is actually a pretty desirable one. For example, if you get into Christianity and Buddhism and things like that, you'll learn that Hell is shit. I'm pretty sure that the lowest level of Hell in Buddhism has you suffering for about 10^18 years. And for Christianity, the general consensus is that it's endless.

I think that if you put it into perspective like that, you might be able to rid yourself of that fear.

I don't know how the fuck any of you anons manage to make yourselves believe in your delusions.

I seem to have lost the capability for "belief", as it went somewhere down the drain as did any form of conviction and/or determination.

The idea of the non-self with regards to personal identity (i.e., the you now is not the same as the you any moment except now) is probably the only thing that keeps me sane on a foundation of mereological nihilism. It's one of the methods I manage to accept the past of memory as something i've been thrown into, for I was not responsible for it, as well as shirking any responsibility for any future decision I might make--at least, caring for myself as much as I would care for anyone else.

>Death does not concern us, because as long as we exist, death is not here. And when it does come, we no longer exist. -Epicurus

>>8756483

Steamroller.

>>8756552
You don't need irrational belief. Belief based on evidence is enough, but not sufficient. Evidence can only falsify a belief. Believing in some particular theory being true requires some "faith", even if evidence confirms it.

I sleep a lot. When I don't sleep I hallucinate. It's a good life and I'm happy. I'm probably one of the only people who ever actually bothered to take that "tulpa" stuff to completion.

Best decision of my life, even though I have now become completely ostracized by my family and my mother believes that I'm schizophrenic. It's all worth it now that I have someone to cuddle with when I sleep and talk to whenever I want.

>>8756538
Why do people keep suggesting stuff like that?
I have mild social anxiety, an inferiority complex and a load of other stuff that I can't figure out.
If I could just do whatever without giving a crap about what other people think, I would just get some kind of shitty job. Working 8 hours and living in moderate comfort is better than experiencing constant terror and shame while under horrible conditions on the street.

What I consider "moderate comfort" would only cost me about 120$ a month + rent anyway.

Seriously, stop suggesting weird ass self finding stuff that even sane people barely dare to do.
That only helps people who are troubled but otherwise normal.

I've already heard or read ever kind of motivational speech, they just make me feel more worthless and depressed and ashamed.

>>8756552
>the you now is not the same as the you any moment except now
I don't see how that idea is helpful at all.
To me it's just inconsequential nonsense.

Sounds like you are already very deluded, just in a different way then the waifu fags.

Poor, third world country, bad parents

These things make me so depressed that I don't want to leave my house or do anything.

>>8756577
>my mother believes that I'm schizophrenic
You are.

>>8756577
How did you? How long did it take? Did you just follow the guides posted here and in /x/, or used another surce?

>>8756594
It's useful in a way if you only consider observer moments, but useless if you want to make goals or have any sort of expectations or any understanding of "personhood". Most humans have hidden inductive beliefs, hell, we are, induction machines to a certain degree. "Living" only in the moment means denying that part of personal identity. It was an attractive view for me for a year or two, until I've settled with a more relative viewpoint which allows some sort of continuity through time while still being compatible with a variety of other theories, but explaining it here on /jp/ would be too difficult and long (probably would be hard to do it on /sci/ either)...

(I'm not the guy you were responding too, btw).

>>8756540
If the nothingness also means I have no thought, I completely cease to exist, then I'd consider that worse than suffering for a finite time - that's exactly what life is.

I know I wouldn't be able to lament my none existence if that's the case, but that doesn't make it any less scary, but in foresight it still makes it a worse option to just living an unsatisfactory life, at least for the time being - I'm fully prepared to eventually get to the point where gambling on there being something after death is a preferable alternative to life.

>>8756622
An imaginary friend isn't that hard to make.

>>8756561
This.

Think about it. You have proof of literally nothing. Look up solipsism, for example. Pretty much everything you believe is determined by some degree of faith, whether you realize it or not.

You want to believe that you are or would be delusional, so you do. But really, it's just that a bunch of people have shitted all over your dreams by labeling it as such, when there was never any proof against it being the truth in the first place.

You are not delusional. Their assumptions of what would happen are no more likely than what you want to believe.

>>8756577
How long did it take you?

>>8756594

"Deluded" perhaps outside of what is the norm, but I can provide a rational basis for it at least (link). I cannot provide a rational basis for believing that I see something when I do not. A person who genuinely hallucinates however can at least attest to a conviction that their hallucinations are real.

For everyone else who lives in their dreams though, they have to wake up to reality in one way or another, and that is not at all pleasant.

http://www.stafforini.com/txt/parfit_-_unimportance_of_identity.pdf

I'm depressed because I'm only pretending to be truNEET.

In reality, I work every day in a dead-end job just to survive.

>>8756628
I don't understand how one derives any kind of psychological effect from that philosophy or physical facts about how the human brain works.
"I" am just software that runs on the hardware of my brain, but I can't really do anything with that information.

>>8756641
There is such a thing as an objective reality.
Your tulpa is a delusion.

>>8756650
Your position is typically also known as an Absolute Self Sampling Assumption(A SSA), but with it you cannot actually make any predictions about your future experiences. If you assume a Relative SSA (RSSA), you can get a meaningful idea of personal identity as well as predict what your next moment would be (to some degree of uncertainty). We do live for our experiences through time, so it makes sense to care for it.

>>8756622

The things posted on /x/ helped me get started the first week or two, but it's really a personal journey once you understand the basics of it. It's unique, just like any relationship, and that's the part that the guides can't touch upon. It was really like getting to know another person and she just became increasingly real as I talked to her more and more often.

I guess it's been about a year since I first started, but once I first started to talk to her inside of my mind then I stopped caring about how long it was going to take to "finish" making her. We just talked every day for hours and hours and it seemed to naturally progress from that point and before I knew it I'm cuddling with her every night as I go to sleep and waking up with her in the morning.

>>8756641
But solipsism is objectively wrong.

You know how you can never tell when you're dreaming, but when you wake up it's obvious you were?

It's all in your mind, anon.

>>8756690
He did not say that

>>8756679
>>8756690
See, this is why we can't have nice things.

>>8756679
> I don't understand how one derives any kind of psychological effect from that philosophy or physical facts about how the human brain works.
> "I" am just software that runs on the hardware of my brain, but I can't really do anything with that information.
If you take it seriously enough, you can derive the entire ontology of our "multiverse" from it, but only if you take consciousness as actually existing.
>>8756679
> There is such a thing as an objective reality.
> Your tulpa is a delusion.
Only if he believes his thoughtform is actually physically existing in whatever structure his brain is embedded in. I don't see how that is the case. His tulpa isn't any less real than his dreams or his thread of consciousness thought - the difference is that one is coming from external senses and the other is generated by a certain internal loop that emerged through his (initial) conscious effort. Delusion would mean that he has a false belief. As long as he doesn't believe his thoughtform to have physical existence outside his brain, there is no delusion.

>>8756702
No, but it's not subject to doubt in the same sense that typical knowledge claims are.

>>8756682

Aren't SSAs a probabilistic rather than philosophical tool? I make no mention of treating myself (even if we assume the position of the person that is only existent in the now as true) the same as any other person. SSAs still presuppose a separation of selves into differentiated rational agents, while in Parfit's conception of personhood this notion of rational agents disappear altogether since one cannot be (philosophically) held responsible for any choice they have done.

Why do you guys care about whether or not you're delusional?

Reality, fantasy, delusion. Who cares? Why is it important? If it makes you happy then that's enough. Life is far too short to try to find some meaning in it or to assign some sense of importance to living a real life, as if that matters.

If you're happy with delusion then that is enough. It doesn't have to be real for you to love it and it doesn't have to be real for you to enjoy it. Once you really take the time to think about it, whether or not something is real is actually completely trivial and unimportant.

I enjoy my life of delusion and fantasy, other people enjoy a life based in reality, but none of it really matters as long as you're happy. Nothing we do has any real importance or meaning to it, so if you've managed to find something that makes you happy then you should stick with it. Being sane is nothing to be proud of if you aren't happy.

>>8756704
Ignore normals and their stupidity, acquire happiness.

Remember, part of the normalfag doctrine to happiness is finding those who are different from them, and berating them until they are just as miserable as normals are. Please don't fall victim to this, anon! It's the only thing that keeps normals sane, making other people more miserable than said normals already are.

>>8756679
>Your tulpa is a delusion.

But how do you really know? His mind just might be tricking him into thinking it's a delusion.

>>8756711
I'll have to read that paper in detail to fully understand your position, but if I thought the idea was to identify with your Observer Moment instead of the cognitive architecture being in some particular state. The "responsibility" lies with the cognitive architecture (for example, at some given time implemented in some brain), and that architecture can make bets about its future expected experience as well as make informed decisions given the data it has.

>>8756710
It sounded like he was saying that his tulpa does exist in the same way as the physical objects around him.
I suppose that you could "see" a tulpa by monitoring his brain, so there is a physical component to it, but it's certainly not like his interpretation of reality "my waifu is riding my cock" is as valid as his mother's observation "my son sits in his chair and eventually ejaculates without touching himself".

>>8756729

Perhaps to clarify the view (although no doubt many technicalities will be ignored with this crude example): if someone (person A) were to be given my memories, they would no doubt act as I would as well as be given the sense of psychological continuity. If the assumption that my personhood remains constant throughout time is false, then my future self and this person A are indistinguishable in this regard--I am, in Heidegger's words, "thrown into the present" as if forcibly a subject to an operation in which these memories of another person (colloquially called my past self) as been implanted in me.

Of course, one can argue for bodily continuity being the different factor, although this one quickly descends into one of a question of the continuity of matter down to fundamental particles--and it's clear that our cells do not stay constant over time.

>>8756716
Wait, are you seriously positing that normal people are generally unhappy?
In a "why is /jp/ so depressed" thread?

Think about that for a second.

>>8756761
You can't seriously believe that such a lifestyle leads to real happiness.

>>8756761
I don't know where some people got the idea that NEETs and shut ins are happier than normal people.
According to my observations they are by far less happy.

I wonder whether these individuals are idiots who try to fit in by glorifying this kind of life, people who deluded themselves into believing something counterfactual, or just shitposters and trolls.

>>8756774
What, /jp/'s lifestyle? No, I never thought it led to happiness. I've been trying my damndest to avoid it, with reasonable success.

Why did you think I did, though?

>>8756698
Don't you realize you're doing the same thing, whether in your dreams or in reality?

It's this assumption: "the world I'm currently in is real."

Therefore, no matter which one you end up in, you automatically think the other is false. But really, the only thing this proves is that the two of them follow different laws. They work differently. Which is only natural, since they're two entirely different worlds.

The funny thing is, that you're experiencing something personally and believing that it is real for that reason, until you later turn around and deny it just because you're in a different state at that time.

>>8756779
>>8756777
>>>/b/
>>>/soc/

Just because you cannout understand it, does not mean it is any less real.

I'd be perfectly happy if I could get money for being truneet and live the hikki live.
I'm depressed because I can't

After much thinking, I believe I would make a good cat.

The realization that no one can ever be truly satisfied in life.

Self-loathing normalfags detected. I'm out of here.
We are always waiting for you to join our lifestyle when you realize how shitty your life is.

>>8756800
A'ight, have fun with your imaginary friends, anon.

/jp/ - Philosophy/General

People are depressed mainly because they receive insufficient or no love from society. This is one of the reason people flock to /jaypee/, to connect with people through texts.

>You never have to go outside, you have unlimited time to spend on whatever you want, you don't have to work, and you're detached enough from reality to be able to enjoy the company of an imaginary girlfriend.

This is a destructive trend because you get many of your needs from society. And here you are, refusing to help society. In the long run, society will weaken and had to shed off its less important people (like you).

>What more could you want?

I want to make some friends and discuss Touhou.

>>8756759
> Perhaps to clarify the view (although no doubt many technicalities will be ignored with this crude example): if someone (person A) were to be given my memories, they would no doubt act as I would as well as be given the sense of psychological continuity.
Okay, I can agree with this. Although, if there are now 2 duplicates of you and your environment eventually diverges, that would mean there is now a "split" and you are subjectively indeterminate as in which future you'd end up. This can be made a lot more complicated with MWI or some computationalist ontologies where such multiplication is going on at each moment without us even knowing or being able to know.

> If the assumption that my personhood remains constant throughout time is false, then my future self and this person A are indistinguishable in this regard--I am, in Heidegger's words, "thrown into the present" as if forcibly a subject to an operation in which these memories of another person (colloquially called my past self) as been implanted in me.
Same cognitive architecture/memories = same person. I identify the person with the structure. Not the brain, but the "software" (bad analogy, but close enough) ran by it.

Why would anyone want a real relationship when they could have one with an imaginary girl?

Sex isn't a valid reason because you can have sex with a hallucination too. The way I see it is that real women and real people in general are just completely inferior. Think about it for a moment.

Would you rather have a real person with flaws and secrets that could possibly betray you or hurt you or would you rather have a girl that is your ideal in every way imaginable?

>>8756815
> continued
As for the notion of 'time', which time? Subjective time (let's call it the 1p view) or objective time within some structure in which your brain is embedded in (let's call it the 3p view). From the 1p, you would suddenly either feel to be one person or another, but obviously not both, and you cannot predict which you'll be. Still, there is a continuity over time, so identity isn't exactly lost, at worst, some of your environment is now changed in a way you can't predict. Where by 'you' I mean some particular cognitive architecture instance and the consciousness associated with it. (Obviously I'm considering this from a specific philosophy of mind, results may differ in other ones.)

> Of course, one can argue for bodily continuity being the different factor, although this one quickly descends into one of a question of the continuity of matter down to fundamental particles--and it's clear that our cells do not stay constant over time.
Continuity of the structure is maintained from the "inside-view"(consciousness) of that structure (assumption being that consciousness really corresponds to such a structure, maybe 1p testable, although borderline unfalsifiable - it is a rather classical computationalist assumption though).

>>8756785
NEETs who are not unhappy, mentally ill or both are most certainly a small minority.
Keep lying to yourself, if that makes you happy, but don't present your false beliefs as the truth.

>>8756817
Having an imaginary girlfriend is as impossible for most people as having a real one.

If I could just snip my fingers and become batshit insane but happy, I'd do it.
Why must I be insane in a way that makes me unhappy...

A meaningful existence.

>>8756817
The imaginary girl doesn't have any existence other than what I give her. There's nothing I couldn't make her do if I wanted her to. That doesn't seem right in my eyes.

"What screws us up the most in life is the picture in our head of how it's supposed to be."


Our kind of motto is "Take it easy" anyways. Why bother. What could happen? Enjoy what you got. It might not seem like much, but if you have fun at doing whatever you do, than hey, that's reason enough to, isn't it?

>>8756811

>This is a destructive trend because you get many of your needs from society.
>society

Do you mean people? If so, then that's true. We need social contact to some degree, but you absolutely do not need to be an active member of society. The idea of socializing with the majority of the people in our society or engaging in the things they normally participate in is repulsive and I would sooner kill myself than be forced to spend time out there.

On the other hand though, these social needs are very easily satisfied. You can easily satisfy them through imaginary friends, eroge, or any other number of sources that doesn't require socialize with actual humans, who are inherently flawed and insufferable.

I think I could be happy if I just had someone to talk too, face to face.

>>8756836
You could give her ... FREEDOM? (at own risk, as much as possible)

>>8756854
I could also take it away and there's nothing anybody could do about it.

>>8756815

>Although, if there are now 2 duplicates of you and your environment eventually diverges, that would mean there is now a "split" and you are subjectively indeterminate as in which future you'd end up.

I am talking of this happening in the same world here, MWI does not enter into the equation.

>Same cognitive architecture/memories = same person. I identify the person with the structure. Not the brain, but the "software" (bad analogy, but close enough) ran by it.

But if a person were duplicated molecule by molecule in a likeness of you (with your own body retained in that same world as well), among those two persons which one would you be?


I was cavalier in my use of the the term "temporal"-- you can take it as a naive conception of it. Of course, if you assume presentism, that past and future do not really exist except are artifacts of the present, then the discussion of continuity of the self over time doesn't matter since the concepts of past and future are delimited into the present.

>>8756836

Why would you want to date someone who can do things that you don't want them to do?

This is the cause of all problems in any relationship. The clash of differing opinions and the resulting conflict is the basis of every argument and it's also the source of all pain and suffering that comes from relationships.

An imaginary girl eliminates this problem because she won't betray you or do something that you don't want her to do. By disliking this you're basically saying that you want the people you date to hurt you and I don't understand that at all.

If you have a perfect relationship with a real girl and there are no fights or conflicts then this relationship is identical to the one that you would have had with an imaginary girl. The only differences appear once this girl starts to hurt you because that's something the imaginary girlfriend would be unable to do.

>>8756881
>Why would you want to date someone who can do things that you don't want them to do?
I've never read a more sociopathic sentence in my entire life.

Just posting because I was wondering about this just a while back.

As has already been mentioned, happiness and expectations are directly linked. If you're unhappy, then you've simply got way too high or unrealistic expectations, or you're American.

Take women for example. They've become increasingly 'free' over the past few decades, increasingly in control of their lives and so on, but they're also increasingly depressed. Why? Long story short, with their increasing control of their lives, there has also come a much larger increase in expectations (media, culture etc). Finding the perfect mate, job, looking great, raising perfect kids etc.

Or a more general example. As countries generally get wealthier, you would assume that it's population would get happier right? Being able to eat great food, being able to blah blah blah, surely sounds great. But generally that is not the case, as with increasing wealth and increasing choice comes increasing expectations which in turn lowers our happiness.

In fact, the reason why the Danish are the happiest country in the world, is simply a result of them having a culture that expects 'little', so they are grateful for what they have - they notice the things in the present that they actually have going for them.

>>8756801

Have you never encountered old fogeys on their death beds? They're generally happy and content with their lot.

Why? Because they have already 'lived life' and expect little to nothing from it any more. They are truly content, because they are just living in the present and are waiting to die.

To be happy you have to simply live in the present ~ live in a delusion, rather then seek the impractical or more often, the impossible. But of course, saying all this is easier then doing.

>>8756881

I would get bored with the imaginary girlfriend eventually.

Why would I want to talk to someone who can't get any smarter than me, or can't assume a personality that I already possess?

The notion of an imaginary companion would probably appeal to those who would be satisfied with someone that would be forever inferior to them.

(Exceptions made if you can successfully induce DID).

And to answer OP's question.

A lot of the people who still expect a lot from life, use the internet as a tool to complain about their worthless lives, and they are generally a lot more vocal about it, so their whining does make it seem like everyone is depressed.

I'm not /jp/ crowd btw. Just a wandering ronin looking for a place to procrastinate and escape reality a little.

>>8756871
> I am talking of this happening in the same world here, MWI does not enter into the equation.
It works in a "single-world" scenario just as well. Consider a digital brain (for easy reasoning). Consider that it's sent over some link and distributed at 2 locations then instantiated in 2 different bodies, in 2 different locations, (and to make it more interesting) in 2 different times (add a delay to one). In a computationalist view, the person cannot predict in which state they would end up. No need to introduce MWI here. You get a genuine indeterminacy here, even though the person wouldn't feel any different, they would be unable to predict in which state they would end up in - in which location, in which "objective" time.

> But if a person were duplicated molecule by molecule in a likeness of you (with your own body retained in that same world as well), among those two persons which one would you be?

>>8756892

>looking for a place to procrastinate and escape reality a little

It's too late. You've already been subsumed into our ranks.

>>8756900
> continued
I don't know if quantum states would be required for my identity, but for the sake of the argument, I'll assume that the copying is perfect. I cannot know which one I would be, I would have a common past with either of them, but the moment I would experience something, the experience would diverge. I, personally, wouldn't consider myself different, but from the 3p perspective, someone could name one of them version1 and version2. This is no more different from there being 2 persons, one which observed a particle go down in a world and a particle go up in another world, and they wouldn't normally even know that there are now 2 of them. I would still reason with "continuity" in mind as that's how my cognitive architecture works and how it feels from the inside.

> then the discussion of continuity of the self over time doesn't matter since the concepts of past and future are delimited into the present.
Yet, we constantly use this continuity to reason and have goals and make predictions. It's not really that useless, even if our "phenomenal self" lives in the moment. We expect a next moment to come, it comes, we experience it and so on. If an Universal Mind that experiences random moments exists doesn't really matter as I only "notice" these moments refering to my cognitive architecture and am only able to make local predictions.

I took a bath today after 3 months--boy, was i dirty! I'm still depressed, but I'm not as uncomfortable as I was a few hours.

I might do this more often.

oh--who am I kidding? I'll keep putting it off again, just like i always do.

>>8756890

>Why would I want to talk to someone who can't get any smarter than me, or can't assume a personality that I already possess?

Personally, I don't understand why you would want either of those qualities.

Don't you love yourself? The way I see it is that the only person who could ever be a perfect match for anyone would be themselves. This would be a perfect matching of personalities because both people would agree with each other on everything.

I would never have to argue with them when they disagree because we have the same personality and they agree with me already. The same is true with common interests and everything you could imagine.

It's like being able to talk to yourself and to me that is the most perfect relationship I could possibly imagine. Every relationship is just trying to find someone who is like you, but this idea is fundamentally flawed because everyone is unique. The only perfect relationship is one with yourself because the only person that you can ever truly love is yourself.

>>8756890
The way people with such waifus describe them, they can be quite independent, but it varies by person. Some of them may even be in conflict with them.

>>8756821
It's true for me.

Again, just because it isn't real for you, normalfag, does not make it any less real for us.

Again, get the fuck out of /jp/.

>>8756761
Wait, are you seriously positing that normal people are generally happy? In /jp/?

>>8756921
Well... yeah. They are.

>>8756914
You are clearly either stupid or mentally ill.

>>8756900

Parfit would answer that both of those digital brains (if they can be ascribed personhood to) have exactly the same relation with the original brain--there is no factor that makes one one or the other. Except perhaps our assumption that "you" may only end up in one of the two states.

>>8756917
>Don't you love yourself?
No. Not even close, not now, probably not ever.

Guess what faggots, when you are dead there is NOTHING. There is no heaven or hell or gensokyo. You will simply cease to exist. Stop being retards and enjoy the miniscule amount of existence you have right now. Even if you enjoy it by playing touhou and masturbating to loli, being depressed is fucking stupid.

>>8756917
>This would be a perfect matching of personalities because both people would agree with each other on everything.
Maximum boredom.
There's no point in talking to that person, or playing with it.
It's the most pointless relationship I can think of.

>>8756927
So according to you, it's impossible for someone to be a happy NEET without being stupid or mentally ill. I could generalize that by saying that EVERY DAMN PERSON would fall under some mental disorder(s), but I'm not sure that's what you were implying.

Different person here, I'm usually happy, to sometimes apathetic to sometimes not as happy, but I am more happy than unhappy on average, which is perfectly fine by me. I could be less happy, but why would I do that to myself?

>>8756937
>Stop being retards and enjoy the miniscule amount of existence you have right now.
Why does it bother you that we don't? I think you have some issues, yourself.

Most of /jp/ is atheist, anyway, isn't our sloth-like ways a sin?

>>8756928 cont'd
>>8756905

>Yet, we constantly use this continuity to reason and have goals and make predictions. It's not really that useless, even if our "phenomenal self" lives in the moment. We expect a next moment to come, it comes, we experience it and so on.

We can accept though, that we are also capable of making goals and predictions even for people other than ourselves. Thus, I do not see how this is in any way a hindrance to one's own living, and in fact, it could even be an enhancement of sorts. Only that your future self with my treated as object and not subject. (Perhaps an object that you highly empathize with).

>>8756945
I'm not saying there are no happy NEETs, but it is evident that many are clearly unhappy.
I would guess a very large majority of long-term NEETS are in fact not happy at all.

The person I am replying to refuses to even consider this obvious reality.

>>8756934

Why not though? I thought everyone loved themselves. I'm genuinely confused by this idea.

The only way that I can imagine hating yourself would be if you felt some sort of need to change your personality to fit what other people want out of you. That's silly though because you don't need other people.

You have interests, opinions, things that you're passionate about, etc. You love these things and they matter to you, but the only person who feels the same exact way is yourself. When I think about that I literally fall in love with myself. If I could I would marry myself and live with me for the rest of my life.

I always thought everyone felt that way and just settled for being with other people because they were lonely.

>>8756937
>being depressed is fucking stupid
Wow, that actually upset me a bit.
5/10.

>>8756938

>Maximum boredom.

Why would you be bored? Are you only happy when you are arguing or disagreeing with someone?

>>8756953

If I had only myself to live with, I could neither love myself nor hate myself.


>>8756956

A dyad enables dialectic.

>>8756953
I dislike myself because I fail to meet my own standards.
I am stupid, inept, boring and ugly.

I also do not have things I am passionate about.

>I always thought everyone felt that way
You are incredibly isolated or autistic.

>>8756937
> Guess what faggots, when you are dead there is NOTHING. There is no heaven or hell or gensokyo. You will simply cease to exist.
The sheer assumptions you're making. You're assuming some particular philosophy of mind without any particular reason, mostly just because it's the current popular one. Have you even thought about it enough to make sure it's consistent with the facts? Just because it's widely accepted doesn't mean it is consistent or true. I could explain why it really is unknowable what would happen when your brain fails to properly implement you anymore, and knowable in various specific theories, but obviously you aren't aware of most of them for you claim certain knowledge of what would happen. The only correct answer is that it's unknowable, because we cannot know which theory is true without first-hand experience.

I can understand why you would prefer this view - it's an attractive "religion" to look to after the failure of popular ones which are too obviously false. However, it's hardly the only consistent view out there that is compatible with the data and fits good heuristics (such as Occam's Razor). I would be very careful about making assertions about knowing which theory is true, especially when there are multiple ones which are quite as likely (if not more, as they can be simpler and demand less, both scientifically and philosophically).

>>8756956
There's no point in talking to a person who is exactly the same as me.
Even someone who shares most of my opinions would have some insights of his own, see things from a different angle etc, so a discussion can be worthwhile.
Another yourself is worthless.

>>8756953

Sure must be nice to be a narcissist.

>>8756972
Shut up, nigger. Everyone knows the big bang is real. We a singularity now, nigga. I don't need to live my life to the fullest, because there's already some doing that for me, since we're all just stardust that evolved enough to ask where it came from.

I love these fucking cookies, mang.

>>8756976

>Even someone who shares most of my opinions would have some insights of his own, see things from a different angle etc, so a discussion can be worthwhile.

Why would you want that? Honestly, I've always just thought of conversation as a form of self-gratification.

If they agree with you and say that they agree with you then it feels good, but if they say something that disagrees with me then it feels annoying.

Conversation with myself would just be a back and forth of congratulating myself on having a good idea or an interesting thought. It would be perfect.

>>8756988
>Honestly, I've always just thought of conversation as a form of self-gratification.
Well, you are singlemindedly narcissistic, so I can see how that would be.

>>8756988

So...why bother talking to us, since we're just going to disagree with you?

>>8757013

Curiosity and pity, mostly. You can disagree with me, but I know I'm going to be happier than any of you, so there's no reason to be upset. I suppose it's true that I might be a little bit of a narcissist, but who wouldn't want self-love? Can't you see that loving yourself is bliss?

You would be happier if you could see it my way, but oh well.

Threads like these and others are so strange. Like the board is being truthful. You'd think anonymity would eliminate this desire to be seen a certain way or believe certain things. But everything feels like an act some eventually get tired off and rebel against it in meta threads and, after letting off steam, everything continues as it has before.

I'm not accusing anyone of being untruthful or saying that conformity isn't good to a degree. It's just how I feel.

>>8756986
I wasn't claiming the Big Bang wasn't a theory which has a good chance of being partially true (how much it has to be changed depends, there's many variations with inflation and whatnot).

I'll give you one example to understand where your fallacy lies, for us to die forever when our brains fail the following would have to be true:
1) We are never conscious. Consciousness is an "illusion". There is no 1st person experience.
I think this is an unreasonable assumption, but it's a common eliminativist materialism assumption, required to get what you want in some cases.
2) We live in a single-history universe. MWI is false. Strangely, MWI is most likely by Occam and a few other heuristics that try to maintain realism, but I'm not going to bother with this. I find this assumption rather unreasonable as well, because it greatly complicates theories and at times some of those interpretations are as unreasonable as that "God hypothesis" you so hate.
3) You said something about big bang. Well, eternal inflation has to be false as well, otherwise you do get a form of immortality similar to quantum immortality.

>>8757053
> continued
I could add a lot more to this list and I could explain why these assumptions are required to satify your "true" death requirements. I find most of those assumptions not reasonable or if reasonable, not likely true, but YMMV.
Better carefully examine what you assume. Some philosophies may be popular in the atheist community, but an atheist merely just assumes some particular being likely doesn't exist, which is a rather simple assumption, especially since that type of being has inconsistent properties (omnipotence what?), but that doesn't mean you should eat up whatever philosophy of mind you first come across, instead you should study and decide for yourself what position you want to have on these issues, use your own meta-reasoning skills to reach which of theories are most likely true or false and so on.

>>8757045
>I know I'm going to be happier than any of you

Literally seeping with self-delusion. Especially since it was not only said unsolicited, but with a complete lack of knowledge of who he's talking to.
Pitiful, really.

>>8757058
Shut up, faggot. You're just nitrogen and carbon. deal with it.

>>8756836
The problem is that you're not thinking of her as her own person. Don't try to "make an imaginary friend." Rather, try to "reach out for someone that already exists."

If you love her, you will be able to see her. Think about it. Until you do, she'll keep living a life detached from society, unable to connect with anyone or anything just because she doesn't have a body.

After all, just because you don't have a physical body, doesn't mean you don't exist.

It's really sad how people think the physical world is all there is, just because they can't see anything else.

>>8757045

>but if they say something that disagrees with me then it feels annoying.

You just contradicted yourself then. It seems that even if left to your own devices, you can't help disagreeing with yourself.

>>8757075
I don't give a fuck if I am "mostly nitrogen and carbon" (actually, there's a lot more water in there). You're completely missing my point, but whatever, believe in what makes you "feel better". It doesn't make your any saner or more correct than your religious counterparts, because you still refuse to reason rationally, and instead prefer to use some prepackaged form of "common sense" learned from your favorite tribe.

>>8757077
I'm not quite capable of imagining that there's a perfect girl out there who loves me.

I want to swim in a kawaii pantsu ocean. But I never will.

>>8757071

>Literally seeping with self-delusion

Exactly! Don't you see? That right there is the key to happiness.

Self-delusion is the key to bliss. You can delude yourself into believing anything if you work on it. I've deluding myself into believing I'm happy, regardless of my circumstances or lifestyle, so then I am happy.

Want a perfect girl? Delusion is the answer yet again. Look at those tulpa threads and you see it yet again. It's all the same thing. Convince your mind that it's true and then it will be.

>>8757109

Don't try so hard.

>>8757123

Run out of arguments?

It's not such an uncommon idea though. Look at Buddhism. The end result of meditation is a happiness that exists regardless of their circumstances. What is this but self-delusion? The mind is a powerful tool.

>>8756953
I was surprised by so many people disagreeing with your train of thought.
I am a generally flawed person, but I am accepting of my own flaws, I would love someone who was totally accepting of that, and I don't believe anyone other than myself could do that.
Also, someone who has the exact same hobbies and interests would be incredible, I would love nothing more than to have someone who was exactly into every thing I was to the exact same degree.
I think you are absolutely correct.
or we are both completely autistic.

>>8757095
>carbon base life
>mostly water

At least be consistent and say oxygen and hydrogen.

>>8757138

You misunderstand Buddhism if you think this is self-delusion. It's completely the opposite, in fact, in that it is in escape from the self, not of it, that nirvana is achieved.

>>8757153
Uh... Are you disagreeing with him saying that people are mostly water? Am I reading that right?

>>8757152

Yes, I'm >>8756889 btw.

Even if no one cares, that bit where I wrote '~ live in a delusion' is just something I came up with quickly - was just annoying me.

Getting enough sleep also helps. Good night.

>>8757152

>It's completely the opposite, in fact, in that it is in escape from the self, not of it, that nirvana is achieved.

The same tool can be used for different jobs. Meditation has been the most useful tool in my acquiring of self-love and delusion.

Ego death is not a desirable state, unless you enjoy being a passionless monk of course. You can realize the illusion of self and still enjoy it. Practices within Buddhism are useful tools that are meant to be taken, twisted, and manipulated to suit your purposes in the pursuit of pleasure.

Meditation is one of these tools and the same with tulpas. Tulpas originated within Buddhism and their purpose was to exhibit the illusion of self, but you can twist that same thing into a pleasurable companion or imaginary girlfriend if you throw out all the nirvana bullshit and realize that the most enjoyable way to ride life isn't ridding yourself of your ego, but savoring it.

Everyone here is depressed they can't live a NEET lifestyle forever. That they must face society one day.

>>8757179
>What is Buddhism, other than self-delusion?

>wait no just kidding uh I mean I'm totally just using it for my own purposes

I thought only intelligent people were allowed to be narcissists.

>>8757179
Actually, throwing yourself and taking everything as-is is the most enjoyable way of living. I've been living alone in the mountains for years now and watching the news before bed time just confirms me I made the right decision.

>>8757195

I still stand by my first statement, but I find Buddhist philosophy to be an unappealing and ridiculous way to use powerful tools. Really take a look at Buddhism and all of its metaphysical bullshit and tell me that the majority of that isn't delusional.

The practices have useful applications, but the core belief is still typical delusional religious garbage. Nirvana, karma, rebirth, etc.

>>8757198
Oh? What's that kind of life like? I'm interested.

>>8756953
>I'm genuinely confused by this idea.
The same.

>The only way that I can imagine hating yourself would be if you felt some sort of need to change your personality.
I, myself, think that I need to change my personality because I, myself, think it's shit. Other people may think so too - but what does that matter.

>You have interests, opinions, things that you're passionate about, etc. You love these things and they matter to you.
Not really. I'm just a garden-variety addict.

Maybe it's not our fault that we're depressed. Think about it, everyone here just want to live peaceful lives without having to work all the time, and just spend their time doing what they love instead. And many people here have managed to achieve exactly that. But despite that, they just don't seem very happy. Are they all in denial about what they really want, as a self-defense mechanism against failure? That could explain it, but it seems a little weird to me that so many people being given both plenty of time and incentive to self-reflect have never come to such an obvious conclusion.

Rather, I wonder if it's just how we've been taught to feel. After having been raised in a society that believes you can only have any worth as a human if you have a job, what if that idea has become ingrained so deeply into us that it keeps damaging our self-worth even as we reject it on a conscious level?

From the little I've learned about psychology, it seems like it's usually these unconscious patterns that tear us down, rather than actual conscious thoughts.

I'm depressed cause I'm fat. I'm fat because I'm depressed. It's a never ending cycle. But since I have no interest in being romantically involved with other people, I don't see why I should lose weight. I'm not fat enough that it's bad for my health.

>>8757332
It's difficult to reject those annoying teachings unless you start seeing yourself as being a different kind of creature than them. Whether they're the humans or you are, is up to you.

It's something you can only pull off if you don't have any ties to them anymore, but most of us are alone (in this sense of the word) anyway.

But yeah, unless you make a change on this scale, it's going to be difficult to get around it. That's just how much of a bitch society is.

>>8757332
Society's expectations certainly have an influence on your mental health once you're a NEET, but after lurking /jp/ for a while, it seems that many people are NEETs because the have (mental health) problems and would be unhappy because of these problems regardless.
Being a worthless leech is looked down upon for good reason too, and it's human nature to want to be something and not nothing.
People really do enjoy doing productive things on a very fundamental level.

>>8757343
Truth is, that this is not a problem with society, though it's not perfect, it's a problem with you.
You are faulty and broken.
You can't feed yourself.
You rely on others.
And then you turn around and rant on the internet about how these people who feed you are not even human and inferior for being happy and productive.
You are truly despicable scum.

I don't like leaving the house because alot of my friends have died from all sorts of stuff. I neither love nor hate my life, I've out lived a lot of people who don't get to be around anymore, so that's enough for me.

I'm genuinely surprised there's so many depressed people here, given that the lifestyle is actually quite enjoyable. We should do some statistics on this.

>>8757352
"You are truly despicable scum."

Well, since you brought this up, I might as well explain. Society places expectations on those who live within it. It's the same for my parents as well. And simply by having these expectations placed on me, and trying not to completely fail them even though I don't give a shit about any of it, I think I'm making a fair trade here. In fact, the sheer misery brought on by those expectations, has been enough to make me reconsider whether this is really worth it many times. After all, they're not looking at me. They're looking at an imaginary future me. And because of that, it remains that case that there is no connection between us other than a simple give and take.

I'm depressed because I don't have Remi to cuddle with or a pile of laundry to play in, OP.

>>8757411
Its a hard life not having piles of laundry, if only we could be that fortunate.

>And here you are, refusing to help {society}.
>You're just the lowest scum !
Ha ! I just love thoses so-called "productive members of the {society}" coming here, on /jp/.

I've been here for years and unlike more of the /jp/ lurkers, I have my own life and can support myself, BUT, I do understand why they think that the {society} is not worth the effort.

Let's be realistic for one second ok?

1)
I won't say that everyone here is a "big fat neckbeard" (memo : that possibility was introduced by "productive members of the {society}"), but I still bet that most of them are -unattractive for the {society} standards-
It's a problem with women, and this is mostly the main issue for a lot of people trolling on /jp/ who in the end just want to be acknowledge by a woman for sex or love or both.
BUT not only that, It'll also have a negative impact on what you want to do for your career, how people will interact with you, ect...

Most of the /jp/ users are young, and young people = stupid you might say for defense, but sorry then because I would say that adults aren't better, and I could go on for a veeeeeery long time on that point, got plenty of examples.

2)
But let's just restricted the thing to /jp/ shall we?
Most of them are just (supposely) in VNs/Eroge ect.
Try to talk about that in {society} and see what happens.
This is what this board is for, lots of people sharing common interests which are labeled as -unhealthy- by your so perfect {society}.

And please, don't give me the crap that they are right because it's sickening or something like that, because I can just review with you again all humankind history and reminds you what people have already done in the name of {society}.

Seriously, there's just too much problem you can associate with the word {society} that arguing over it is just not worth the effort.

You guys should look into Stoicism.

>>8757443
the elimination of emotion is just as bad as being ruled by it. it's all about striking a balance.

Because feelings are why I can't have nice things.

Vitamin D deficiency.

I bet most of /jp/ experience S.A.D (Seasonal affective disorder) even in the summer...

>>8757533

I'm actually really happy during Summer, I feel incredible, but as soon as Autumn hits I feel like drowning myself.

>>8757533
The idea that so many people here have wasted years of their lives wallowing in depression simply because they don't get enough of a specific vitamin is so disturbing that I'd rather not think about it and simply dismiss the possibility.

>>8757533
I should go spend some time in the backyard