/jp/ - Otaku Culture

My theory is that it goes in ZUNs direction, not the fandoms direction.

The odd shift could unsettle players.

TD is bad because it's too easy.

EoSD, PCB and IN are the best.
SA is acceptable too.
Opinions.

"What's with these new stupid games? There aren't any good IOSYS remixes of their themes!"

>>8511724
>more elaborate
There, you have the answers, who the fuck cares about elaboration after all? The games are good just for the girls, a bunch of males would have never sold anything, so don't elaborate, just put some girls and let the fans do the rest.

Because they're new and don't have a lot of fanworks.

>>8511743
OP here, sorry for the ignorance, but what's IOSYS?

>>8511757
get out of /japoo/

>>8511757

A mainstream doujin music circle that makes mainstream arranges. We hate it.

Do you know what Bad Apple is?

>>8511724
I love them too, OP.
I do not really see anything that would make me dislike them...
Actually it seems that they are getting??better??

>>8511764
Wouldn't you prefer to convert someone else to something you like?

People dislike ten desires because it's relatively easy and the scoring mechanics are aggravating.

>>8511773
Yep, I know what's Bad Apple, I didn't know who made that though, I don't really care about authors and stuff like that

Is he ever going to make something new?
Like using 3D graphics or a mobile (wp7/android) version?

Ten desires is a bit too colourful for me, makes me feel like I'm about to have an epileptic fit.
But I love the music and story, and the backgrounds have improved so much since the old games.

>>8511792
GET BACK TO /v/ GRAPHX KITTY!

>>8511784
This. Look at the world record scoring runs. They're all BOMB AND TRANCE EVERYTHING.

Then again, playing for score in Touhou is kind of silly. Real men do stage long chaining in DOJ.

>>8511773
But Bad Apple isn't by IOSYS

I like it, every new touhou game is hated.
Wait until touhou 14 and see how many people suddenly like TD

>>8511810
>>8511786

Bad Apple isn't by IOSYS, It was made by Alstroelemeria Records. I just wanted to check how detached you were from the fan scene.

I like UFO however I dislike TD.

>>8511818
Cirno's math class

>>8511810
Then what are IOSYS works?

>>8511817
Nice try, but we all know now that you are some old grumpy guy hipster guy who hates anything famous without even knowing anything about it

I try to judge the games equally and not be an asshole about it. Besides, everyone has their preferences. As a whole, my favorite games are probably Imperishable Night and Undefined Fantastic Object, simply because they are the ones I enjoy playing the most. But I like all of them really, even if they have their different "strengths".

>>8511825
Hipsters would be playing something less mainstream than touhou.

>>8511831
Hipsters play Hellsinker.

>>8511817
Well, yes, I always try to enjoy the games ignoring the fanbase, that's also one of the reason I made this thread, I refused to accept the last games as garbage without trying them.

>>8511846
You can play the games without asking /jp/? Wouldn't you be even less biased that way?

Oh well. I say play them, there's nothing wrong with them.

TD is trash.

The last good Touhou game was IN.

TD sucks because it's so easy that it actually lets secondaries 1cc it.

Fucking pathetic. I hope ZUN bumps up the difficulty in 14.

I only hate UFO.
My favorite touhou game is PCB.
A very close second is Double .

>>8511854
I've already played them and they looked awesome to me, I just wanted to know what you guys thought about this hate.

>>8511863
>>8511858

"I liked touhou before it was popular, therefore you don't have the right to like it too"

"TH(n) has bad gameplay changes, worse music, bland characters, TH(n-1) was the last good Touhou game."

Every fucking time since IN.

>>8511867
Oh, okay. Your post made it sound like you where expecting to try them soon.

Glad you liked them?

>>8511867
>I just wanted to know what you guys thought about this hate.
who gives a shit

>>8511873
No. It has nothing to do with Touhou being popular. It's the fact that even a retarded monkey could play TD and still 1cc it on Hard and below.

I wonder what people would have said if ZUN had released EoSD or even IN in 2011.

>Using the knowledge of a person about a certain circle as a proof of it's worthiness.

/jp/, you are better than this.


And TD introduces some few new gameplay mechanics, so it's natural that old 2hu players hate it to some extent. But don't worry, eventually almost everyone becomes fond of the game and the cast with enough time and after enough fan works about them.

In my opinion, TD is boring. Boring cast (except Yoshika, Mamizou and Kyouko.), not too great OST, and FUCKING FORCED TO HUG THE TOP.

True Touhou fans don't dislike the newer games. Sure, they may find them not as good as the older ones, but it's just that the elitists and clueless ``primaries'' who think the games are too easy are like the loud an obnoxious anime fans at high school clubs. They have to force their opinions everywhere, as if anyone really gives a shit. The actual Touhou fans don't really mind the difficulty difference and play the games for fun.

It's over, touhou is finished

The best touhou games were 6-7-8-9... the rest just don't compare.

>>8511899

>EoSD

omg vampires so kewl XDD my fav book is twilght xD team remilia :P!!!

>IN

casualshit, worst 2hus, repetitive music, ZUN is losing his touch, touhou apocalypse

iosys thread!!!!!!!!!!
jk, but anyway op, you are missing out some great works.

flower of the sun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg-MGrwqH2Q

border of death
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiS8c_nIgXY

neko miko reimu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbL5M_XplKk

....
marisa stole
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAbhJk4YJns

>>8511920

This is what casuals actually believe

>>8511911
Ehm... Who are you quoting??

Until UFO i always liked the new games, then DS came, it was ok. After that it's just a big, big fall. Fairy Wars should not even exist and TD is horrible. Why do i think TD is horrible? it's not just the difficulty. Music is just terrible too. I just like 2 songs, and characters are too plain. Just compare it to UFO. Go to play UFO stage 6 and then TD stage 6. TD might be a good game, but it's a terrible Touhou.

>>8511911
Okay so first you say people have predictable opinions because they think that "it's different, i hate different" and "unlikable characters = not enough fanworks".

And then you go ahead and make these exact statements yourself? Ok bro

>>8511923
inb4 people shouting at me for not mentioning overdrive, alice~dare, that hina song, make us your brides.... I get it allready, i know iosys was great, i can't post all their works in a single post, if i do he wouldn't check either of them.

>>8511931
Forgot to mention that options and system are just too plain as well. Only 4 options? Are we in PC-98 again? At least Youmu has a special feature, then i thought that the other characters would be the same. And what i get? 3 same shits for all the other characters.

>>8511931
>characters too plain
>compare to ufo
Haha what.

The only people who keep complaining are one of the following:

*SUPER PRO PLAYERS who don't give a shit about touhou in it's entirety and just care about gameplay and got bored with the easy extra and lunatic stages.

*New players who just repeat what those players say and never even played MoF on normal.

*Mimafaggots who feel the need to shit on everything ZUN creates that doesn't have Mima in it.

*Fanboys obsessed with the rather western styled characters like Utsuho, Satori, Koishi, Remilia, Flandre, etc. who believe that eastern like characters don't belong into touhou(note: not all hate the TD cast. Just a bunch of them).

*Secondaries who wonder why there aren't any videos/memes of them.

>>8511938
if you include mimafaggots, why not sakuyafaggots as well?

>>8511937
Are you telling me that Toyosatomimi is better than Byakuren? Or that Nue is a bad character?

>>8511931
TD is horrible, but it's a good game? Okay.

>>8511937
Stop that.

>>8511945
They are the same, not need to mention i guess.

>>8511932
I said I find it boring.

And I say it not because it's a new game. The gameplay mechanics, cast and music style varies greatly in some games, but that doesn't make me hate them.

TD just seems boring to me.

UFO is my favorite...

>>8511936
>Only 4 options?

But there aren't only four, the focused and unfocused shot types are different.

OP here again, I saw many people complaining about how easy TD is, but I never saw anyone complaining about how easy EoSD and PCB are (and don't tell me they were hard because it's not true and you know it), IN wasn't really easy but not that hard (imo the hardest was SA) so what's the real problem?

>>8511952
nostalgiafags

>>8511945
Because the Mima outcry started when the game was released while the Sakuyafanboys stopped whining some time before the demo was out.

>>8511947
What i mean is that TD can be a good game if you don't care about Touhou in it's entirety, or if you never played another Touhou.

>>8511953
Mine too, don't worry about people crying about it because they can't get red ufos and prefer a system that keep you alive after dying.

>>8511931
>Until UFO i always liked the new games

I'll take the wild guess - you found out about Touhou after SA's release.

>>8511952
EoSD isn't easy compared to other touhou games, and touhou is all that a lot of people have played.

>>8511938
Generally this would appear to be mostly correct except

>*Mimafaggots who feel the need to shit on everything ZUN creates that doesn't have Mima in it.

I doubt 90% of the Mimafags are serious.

>>8511965
Almost but no. I found about Touhou when MoF was the new game, so i was already on the fanbase with SA and UFO.

>>8511952
ZUN himself said that he made TD easier than previous games.

>>8511957
Then what's the problem?

>>8511952
Literally just people trying to look like good players and repeating what others say. MoF on easy, normal and hard is a LOT easier than TD. You get a nearly endless supply of bombs.

>>8511970
SA and UFO release*

>>8511977
The problem is that i'm a Touhoufag, and my expectatives for Touhou 13 were very high, i wanted a new Touhou game, not just a generic danmaku with low difficulty. A good Touhou game is composed by charismatic characters and great music, not just gameplay.

>>8511996
I lke the new characters and music

everything went to shit after Phantasmagoria of Flower view. it was a good game, i wish I knew why ZUN decided to go in a different direction after releasing it.

To be fair, TD might be the prettiest touhou to date. The stage design and some danmaku are quite fabulous this time.

>>8511996

I thought it had great music. The stage 1 theme is probably one of my favorite songs in the series.

I like the characters. Group dynamics are nice

>>8511996
Why don't you go choke on those high expectations bro

It's just a doujin bullet hell game
How about we try to have the nest time a new Touhou is released guys?

>>8512026
*try to have fun
How did I derp that bad, I don't know.

I don't know, OP. TD happens to be one of my favorite games, right after PCB. I think that the character designs are great, and the music is well done, considering how ZUN took a newer approach to some tracks. The difficulty isn't as insane as the other games, but I find that to be a good thing, being the shitty player that I am. Also, it's the most prettiest Touhou game. I look for other things in the games other than frustrating difficulty. I think that the ones hating TD are just those hardcore super players who care about nothing but beating/scoring the games so they can brag about being better than everyone else. Since TD is ``easy,'' I can see why that would be a problem for them.

The TD cast still needs to be featured in more doujinshi, though.

>>8512040
The players who care about scoring don't dislike TD because it's easy, they dislike it because scoring in TD isn't fun.

>>8512046
Boo hoo, play a different game.

>>8512040
>>8512109
sure is scrubs in here

enjoy never earning any money in score running tournaments.

>>8512046
>scoring
>fun
Pick one.

I beat 10 desires before it was cool

>>8511724
Why didn't I realize before how fuckhuge Reimu's gohei is? It's like her whole height

>suck at life
>play touhou
>suck at touhou
>shit post on /jp/
>who am I quoting?

>>8512124
uber gaymur xDDD

Touhou 11 has the best soundtrack

>>8511724
Characters are not memorable. Plus we've already had two other religion war games.

So we have a reused plot.
Reused characters (Yuyuko and Kogasa)
And lack luster everything.

>>8512150
You sound like somebody that sucks at touhou. I bet you still die before Stage 5.

>>8512163
You forgot about Nue. But that's just you getting bored of Touhou.

>>8512163
>no mention of reused Nue

It might help to actually play the game before you complain about characters that aren't memorable.

In the next Touhou you'll be able to view the good ending regardless of how many continues you used.

>>8512163
Good job forgetting about Nue. Even if scoring is completely dull and boring, it wouldn't hurt to at least score run the Extra stage ONCE. Fucking secondary scum.

>>8512171
You sound like someone who's only known about Touhou for 2 years. Even with that estimate, I'm being generous.

If you play STGs for the story/ characters, there's something wrong inside of your head.

Also what (>>8511729) said, ZUN makes these games because he enjoys them. I doubt he cares very much for the wants of the fan base (0 cares for the Western fan base). People upset with this need to man up and make games they enjoy if they hate it so much.

>>8512186
>>8512177
>>8512175
>>8512173
>>8512171
>>8512163
welp, so much mad

But... I like all Touhou games..
I have played Touhou since god knows when... I still sometimes play Highly Responsive to Prayers...
And I like Ten Desires....

WTF is with all this elitistfag talk?

cant people simply enjoy good games?
Why all this tourney / fandom shit?

>Reused characters (Yuyuko and Kogasa)
I FUCKING LOVE characters coming back
I can't believe people are mad about this

>>8512186
And let me guess. You only play for the characters, am I right? I've been playing since the release of PCB, years ago. Even so, who gives a shit when I started? I can get just as much done within three months of practice, as opposed to some people that have been playing for years and still suck ass at the games.

At first I thought this thread might have some educated gameplay discussion.

But then I remembered I was on /jp/.

>>8512231
Oh please, if you didn't get introduced to Touhou through /jp/, there is no way you'd be talking like that.

>>8512230
If he's going to rehash bosses, he could at least use one that wasn't used recently.

Like Mima.

>>8511773
Bad apple is not made by Iosys, you stupid fuck.

>>8512474

I don't get it. I love all Touhou games equally.
ZUN has yet to dissapoint me. Ten Desires is some awesome shit.
And I got hooked with EoSD, even if I did just about when MoF was released.
I cannot hate any of them, it's just impossible.

>>8512494
``Please" read the thread, you stupid fucktard.

>>8512501
'headcore'/'real' fans of series shit all over them while jerking off about how smart they are
I wish they would go away

You guys are complaining TD is easy, but weren't UFO and specially SA shitbricking hard? So by "the last games suck" you just mean ONE game?

Every thread on /jp/ that's not one of the same usual "general" topics is always just full of anger and vitriol, it's so funny to me

TD sucks shit because it's way too easy. I 1cc'd it on lunatic without bombing or restarting even once.

>>8512494
yeah, ZUN composed it.

People didn't like that it was too easy, despite pretty much going in knowing that ZUN wanted this one to be on the easier side of things well beforehand.

The music and characters turned out pretty good. They have a way of growing on ya.

SoEW is still the best for me.

>>8512536
SoEW is the angriest I've ever gotten playing these games.

>>8512536
It's funny because there isn't a single way in which SoEW is better than any other Touhou game, and is worse than all of them in a pretty good number of ways.

>>8512519
Yes.

Also, SA wasn't that hard. People just say it is because they haven't played it beyond Normal. Or they don't know how to bomb.

>>8512534
It being too easy has nothing to do with it. A lot of people consider PCB to be very easy, but it is one of my favorite games because the scoring system is fun and interesting. TD's scoring system isn't. At all. There should be a difference between catering to new players and completely alienating scoring players.

>>8512539
Only one I 1cc'd (on hard)

>>8512541
Even HRtP?

>>8512541
>implying Genji doesn't make the game top tier

>>8512534
That doesn't mean people are forced to like it, TD was already being shunned before release due to ZUN revealing that statement, they don't have to praise every single atom of the creator of a series they like you know.

>>8512519
SA had a relatively hard normal difficulty, but hard and lunatic weren't really any harder than the other games. Extra was average.

UFO was just brutal in general.
Extra had a relatively difficult stage portion, but nue wasn't bad at all.

Both were welcome after MoF.

>>8512541
> there isn't a single way in which SoEW is better than any other Touhou game
the stage 2 theme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQgffFQwwSs

>>8512551
Fuck you, that game was awesome, the music was awesome, the gameplay was awesome, the characters even without introduction looked awesome, if only there were dialogues...

>>8512561
There was something very amusing about Reimu being able to kill herself.

>>8512551
Nah, HRtP has its moments. It's better than SoEW in that it's unlike all the other Touhou games, so if you get bored of bullet hellan you can give it a few gohei spins.

>>8512565
If you let Reimu kill herself then there is something wrong with how you played that game.

>>8512568
Getting hit by the ying-yang ball was one of the most common ways of dying for me.

>>8512571
Let me mock you.

Ten Desires is pure shit. Every primary will agree.

I 1cc'd lunatic blindfolded, with one hand, standing on 1 leg, with muted sound,no bombs and running at 600 fps and got the highest score in the world.

This is not a good game just because some secondaries like you enjoy the music or because the tertiaries enjoy the characters. Your opinionis worthless until you clear all games on lunatic and all extra stages.

>>8512573
I even finished it on lunatic. After a week of hard work and 30 continues on the last boss

>>8512574
Keep dreaming, bro.

i like the 12.3 fighting game. it's fun!

what the fuck is a "secondary"?

>>8512574
I was crying just now because I hate myself so much and my life is so shit, but this made me laugh. I don't care who you are, but thanks.

>>8512578
He's being ironic.

>>8512591
Your mom when it comes to fucking.

>>8512574
>That kid general

>>8512591
Someone who likes touhou because of the secondary works like music and manga instead of the games.

>>8512591
/jp/'s boogeyman

>>8512585
>having fun

>>8512590
YOU DON'T SAY?

>>8512574
Stop giving good players a bad reputation with these kinds of shitposts. Even if it's a joke, there are people who legitimately think that scoring players behave like this, and I find that extremely troubling.

I never expected to make so many people post in one of my threads but this is not the type of answers I wanted to see.

>>8512591
Secondaries are people who aren't aware of what is a secondary.

>>8512591

You should be asking what a tertiary is, because that's what you are.

>>8512609
welcome to /jp/.

>>8512598
No. That is now what a secondary is.

>>8512594
yes i'm having fun.

>>8512598
Nope, wrong answer. Try again.

>>8512615

>>8512612

What the fuck is a tertiary?

>>8512608
I know one who does, but that's just one.

>>8512608
They all do. Just look at the fucking gameplay threads.

>>8512626

Someone who enjoys derivative works of touhou derivative works, I guess.

>>8512626
beastiary, aviary, tertiary. use your brain.

I’m not sure how official this terminology is, but in general, Touhou fans can be divided into two categories: the people who enjoy it for the fan works and the memes, and the people who enjoy it for the source material. It’s essential to delve into both categories if you want to experience everything the franchise has to offer, but considering how mainstream it’s become, it’s safe to say that many of today’s Touhou fans shy away from the original games out of fear. I can’t blame them, either: bullet dodging is scary stuff. It’s tough for gamers, and it’s even tougher for non-gamers.

Primary: played the games before partaking in the derivative works
Secondary: partook in the derivative works before playing the games, and may not play the games at all

You don't argue with this. 80% of the ``primaries'' in this thread just found out they are ``secondaries.''

>>8512632
These ones?
>>8499675
>>8500892
They are shitposts and exactly what >>8512608 means.

>>8512653
>You don't argue with this.
That's not how discourse works, anon.

Incidentally, you are incorrect.

>>8512648
Just use the words "primary" and "secondary". Don't be afraid.

>>8512629
Which one, that ULTRA ONLY EVERYTHING ELSE IS USELESS guy? He's not actually good, and I'm not even sure if he plays the games. I get the feeling that his trolling is what started all of this.

>>8512632
Point out the offending posts in the current gameplay thread for me, if you're willing. >>8499660 I would really like to get to the bottom of this.

Who would play toohoo if there weren't memes like McRoll

UFO does blow ass though

>>8512658
smelly dumb secondary scum~
Yes, I am correct. I hate the terms too, and I know it's hard to accept, but you'll get over it.

>>8512654
If there wasn't such a big problem with good players calling out the bad ones then nobody would even poke fun at them.

>>8512672
There is no problem. Shitposts like that created the problem and continue to maintain it.

>>8512668
Nope. The terms were contextualized with respect to Touhou on /jp/, so if you wish you can consult the archives and find that while you are close, you're misunderstanding what exactly was meant with the terms.

>>8512598
No, that's unspecific. Much of ZUN's story material is in the written works (imo reading and understanding the lore is a 'primary' attribute), and his music is almost another part of Touhou by itself. I know what you meant, but it's better to word it like

"Someone who by large ignores the games and other official works (unless showcasing hardest difficulty evar xD), while indulging mostly in fanmade works and the fanon culture."

Also, people who are just into Touhou's vast collection of music arranges should be in a category of their own.

When Ten Desires first came out I spent almost every waking hour on it for the first few weeks.

POFV is the only game that doesn't click for me. Might just be because I just suck at it and get distracted by the other screen.

>>8512685
>Primary Touhou fan: One who became interested in Touhou due to it's games. [...]

>Secondary Touhou fan: One who became interested in Touhou due to some offshoot (dojin works, IOSYS, fanart, 4chan...). [...]

Omitted the implications so that weak minds are not swayed by the spin on the stated facts. Care to continue?

I like playing TD. The graphics are great, and I also like the Trance mechanism. It throws in a little bit of strategy, like knowing when to use it to maximize life and bomb pieces. It's also nice to have four different characters to choose from, and I like some of the boss fights (e.g. Seiga teaming up with Yoshiko).

If there are negatives, it's that the music isn't too memorable for me, and neither are the characters (even if I do like the story and how it connects to previous games), though I don't think it helps that it's so new there aren't a lot of doujin materials out for it. That seems to make a difference for both.

>>8512698
Absolutely. Just because one saw an IOSYS flash video before they started playing the games doesn't mean they became interested in Touhou because of the secondary works. Personally, if the games weren't as good as they are, I guarantee I wouldn't care about Touhou in the slightest, and never would. Therefore, I became interested in Touhou due to its games.

And there we see how you have misunderstood. "Became interested in Touhou due to" does not by any stretch of the imagination equate to "The first Touhou-related thing this person had ever seen was". Please don't waste everyone's time by trying to argue otherwise.

>>8512715
I don't mean anything rude by this, but the only reason you like Ten Desire's Trance system is because you've never played any other shmup with a trance/hyper/break/whatever system.

>>8512608
Huh?

You mean most good players DON'T act like that? How surprising, because every "good" player I've met has egos the size of China. And this doesn't just pertain to STGs. I mean in every single game I've played, the self proclaimed good players are the biggest, most arrogant douchebags I have ever seen.

Just in case someone is interested, here's the thread where the terms "primary" and "secondary" were first used.

http://archive.foolz.us/jp/thread/949292/#p949292

>>8512719
me too! i read 100 doujins and memorize the lyrics to bad apple befor playing the games although i love the games! means i'm a primary xD. w00000000ttt!!!!!!!

>>8512698
Well fuck. I thought I was atleast a secondary for enjoying ZUN's music CDs and his stories.

>>8512734
Ah, so you're just going to waste everyone's time without actually trying to argue otherwise. I guess that works.

>>8512731
What if I became interested in it due to the fanworks and ended up loving the games and official works more than every fan stuff?

>>8512687
PoFV is great as long as you're playing it against another person.

Playing the AI and dodging dots, waiting for it to suicide is terribly boring.

Issues with TD:
1) Trance is too good, and there is absolutely no risk or downside to using it.
2) Scoring means spending a large portion of the game in trance, I.E. not playing. You just activate and sit on a boss. To score, you have to skip the entire final boss fight and various parts of the rest of the game.
3) Even if you don't care about scoring, trance is still the best survival method. Don't have trance? Pop a pointblank bomb or two and there you go. Again, by design, there is no reason to actually try to clear things you find difficult. Use your magic skip button. The risk/reward factor that makes shmups so interesting is completely fucked in this game.

Personal issues with TD:
4) I don't really find the danmaku interesting. UFO had really cool unique stuff for all of the bosses, and the dodging varied a lot. TD has unique stuff for some bosses but it just doesn't do it for me, and it rarely impacts the way you have to dodge in a meaningful way.
5) I don't find the characters that interesting either. Or the music, honestly, although I disabled the music in all the games so that doesn't matter to me now. Zombie-girl's kinda cute. Don't really give a shit S4, S5, and S6 bosses. It doesn't really matter when you're playing but combined with the rest of the points I just don't give a shit about TD in general, inside or outside the game.

I wouldn't say it's unequivocally a terrible game, but I 1cced it and there's no reason for me to come back to it because I don't like the danmaku and scoring is stupid. I liked the spirit system and the pointblanking thing, but trance is totally busted. Shame, really.

>>8512751
>downside to using it.
Doesn't capture the spellcard

>>8512754
I disagree.

>>8512751
> Use your magic skip button.
that's in all touhou games

>>8512729
I kind of know how hard it is to get decent at shmups, and even then, there are always people that are better than you. Because of that, I don't like arrogant people in the community, nor do I want to become one, even jokingly, because I know it hurts.

I rarely post even in the gameplay thread

>>8512750

According to the original definition, secondary.

READ THIS, ALL OF YOU

>>8512731
>>8512731
>>8512731
>>8512731
>>8512731

>>8512762
Less points, alright. But in turn it increases your overall score much more.

>>8512766
Well, I guess it can be fun for a short burst if you're frustrated with the main games. I always just load up StB or DS whenever that happens, though.

>>8512729
I can't speak for everyone you've encountered, but I know several "good" players, and I would even consider myself to be one. I would like to think that we're all nice, friendly, and occasionally helpful people. However, even admitting that I'm "good" or sharing an accomplishments sets off the arrogance alarms in everybody in /jp/, so I'm at a loss. I've been on /jp/ since its creation, and I went from being total shit to reasonable in the games over the years. When people shitpost like that, I take personal offense, like they're putting hateful words into my mouth. Hurr durr internet is serious business, but /jp/ has been my home. During these past few months, I've felt so incredibly unwelcome. It's crushing me, and I'm not sure what to do.

>>8512789
I still disagree, I already finished 7 endings and I'll probably continue until I got them all, I fucking love this game.

>>8512731
Some of the most retarded shit I've read this year.

Weaaboo's trying to act elite over some Jap game.
And you guys wonder why Japanese people hate you and laugh at you.

>>8512762
Potential spell card bonus: 5M points
Potential shit on the boss' face with bombs and trance gain: 50M points

This is the problem.

I think MoF and SA are complete shit. I hate the life-power-bomb systems. EoSD - IN had great life-power-bomb systems.

UFO is better than the previous games if its type, but I'm eternally butthurt about running into things chasing UFOs. I like its characters though, which is more than I can say about MoF or SA.

TD is easy but has the best ZUNart ever. It's the first game I truly like Sanae in because of the art.

FW is the best game Zun has made. But then I like the STB/DS games more than the major games to begin with.

>>8512798
Why are you even here?

Why do people make a distinction between 'primary' and 'secondary'? Who cares? I determine primary and secondary by this guideline:
Primary: You're interesting to talk to about the games
Secondary: You're an obnoxious idiot

I admit that people who are deep into the fanon aspect of Touhou fit more into the latter than the former, but I honestly don't give a shit if you 'ship' people or fantasize nonstop about fucking one of the characters as long as you shut up about it.
If you're some exclusionary jerkoff who thinks you're better than other people solely because you got into the games before them, or for a different reason, you're a secondary.

>>8512735
Didn't ZUN start creating the games mostly to use his music? Why should liking his music make someone a secondary?

>>8512807
I don't think so. He considers the music of the game to be a very essential part of the experience.

>>8512729
>I mean in every single game I've played, the self proclaimed good players are the biggest, most arrogant douchebags I have ever seen.

In my FPS experience this is only true for those who aren't actually very good at all, but are less bad than some players and gain some perverted satisfaction from looking down on those people. The extreme top players are rarely like this.

>>8512807
If that was the case he would just release music CDs. It's clear he enjoys making these games, though it's very likely making the music is the part he enjoys the most.

Touhou is a passing fad, faggots. Don't give it so much thought. I bet that it starts declining by the end of this year and that in 5 years it will be one of those "things that were popular but now seem to be forgotten"

>>8512804
>>8512804
>>8512804

>>8512829

>Touhou is a passing fad

Yeah, that's why it's been consistently gaining popularity for 15 years, isn't it?

>>8512829
But Touhou has been popular for years. It isn't an "internet meme", it's a fandom. What you're saying is similar to saying, "Star Trek is a passing fad," or, "Shakespeare is a passing fad."

A ton of people like Touhou five years ago, a ton of people will like it five years from now. ZUN could fuck it up royally somehow and we'd still enjoy the fan works and ZUN's earlier creations. Of course it will fade in popularity eventually, but that's true of anything.

>>8512829
Only allowed to enjoy popular things? Are you socially retarded?

>>8512829
If 2hu becomes less of a fad, it will only make /jp/'s penis harder. We hate fads, but we tolerate fads that include lolis.

>>8512797
Well, that's good anon. It's good to enjoy a game that you're having fun with. We all have our own opinions, and personally I enjoy playing multiplayer whenever I do play PoFV. It just feels far more exciting for me when I play against an equally skilled player, rather than an AI.

>>8512793
Actually, I was more so talking about the people that shit on the accomplishments of others. People that talk shit about those who play on a lower difficulty, or because they completely disregard scoring. Of course, if you broke the world record for Ketsui or DOJBL, go ahead and post up a replay or whatever. But really, all I ask is that those players refrain from shitting on the accomplishments of others, like I said.

>>8512847
>But really, all I ask is that those players refrain from shitting on the accomplishments of others, like I said.
I can't think of a single instance of this occurring on /jp/ in recent memory. Even if it did, I can almost guarantee that anybody shitting on anybody else was in no position to be doing so.

>>8512731

This "primary-secondary" classification is outdated. We should make a new one with at least 5 or 6 categories, just two is too vague.

>>8512847

The people who shit on other people's accomplishments aren't the best players. That's the issue. Good players understand how much effort it takes to achieve things in shmups and generally want to help other players along the way.

people who don't like TD haven't played with youmu yet

>>8512867
Believe me, that will only create more trouble. A few years ago on /tg/ there was a huge debate about the idea that roleplaying gamers fell into one of three categories--gamist (people who liked the game), narrativist (people who liked the story) or simulationist (people with Asperger syndrome). Tens of thousands of posts were dedicated to bitching about who belongs into what category and whether they should be subdivided further and so on. I haven't been to /tg/ in quite some time, but I suspect there are still arguments from time to time.
Just keep "primary" to the "true" fans like HS and YASU, and keep "secondary" to the meme-spewing YouTube morons from Reddit. Anyone who falls somewhere in between or whose status as a primary or secondary is questionable should be considered neither--it's simply not relevant.

>>8512884
People who do like TD haven't played for score yet.

And then everyone asks "Why is the Touhou fanbase so shitty?"

>>8512905
Fanbases in general are retarded. I'd even say touhou has one of the least terrible ones.

F3 Mystic Square
0 results

Come on, it's be best touhou.

ZUN doesn't seem to be able to gauge difficulty right anymore. It all seemed to out the window after PoFV.

First there was MoF, the bomb system was incredibly generous as it relied on power and you could easily keep one power spare as well as the fact it generally meant you were always holding a stock of 5 bombs. Faith chaining wasn't that bad of a scoring system however though it did make some cards deathbombs.

Then there was SA, a large step up in difficulty from MoF, it's bonus life system resulted in a process where you either got through the game with a whole bunch of lives or didn't get them at all. However SA I'd say was pretty decent difficulty wise, you just needed to learn Orin generally.

Despite SA being quite difficult and a good standard, ZUN decided to take the difficulty even higher introducing the UFO system. It is one of the most hilarious and frustrating scoring systems in all of shmups. This is compounded by the fact the game's difficulty is already stupendously high. The world record run of UFO is a hard mode run.

Then ZUN decided to scale back on the difficulty, he however went so far he created the easiest touhou game in history involving a scoring system that rewarded deliberately not attempting to dodge things at all and just sit on bosses. This is TD. The change from UFO to TD was jarring in most people's opinions.

One can only ponder how difficult the next game will be. Honestly it can't be that bad with the large range he now has. However if he manages harder than UFO or easier than TD I will be impressed.

>>8512911
This. I think it's mostly because of the high level of entry to Touhou. That probably sounds very elitist, but it's true. The games are difficult and there are a ton of characters and such. The "lol cirno 9 do it again chen :D" crowd stick out on boards like /jp/ like a sore thumb. From what I've gathered it's the same in Japan, where "secondary" fans are referred to as "niwaka."

Primaries:

SHMUP-Player: Enjoys the gameplay and play other shmups. Often very skilled. Don't care much about story and characters.

Casual-Player: Plays the games pretty often but play them because they like the story and characters in combination with the gameplay.

Secondaries:

The WEEABOO: Likes anime, VNs, Doujinshi and moe. Don't play the games much but love the characters and fandom.

The "real" fan: Have played the games, maybe still do, but this persons life revolves around Touhou. mostly listen to Touhou music, cosplays, buys figurines and possible have their room decorated in Touhou fashion. Have been a fan for a long time.

The lost soul, /jp/: Like the Touhou because the doujinshi mainly. Also because they are lonely and find satisfaction in Touhou. These people doesn't give a ratshit about ZUN or the games and probably shit posts and troll the any "real" fan. Could also be from /a/ and likes Touhou because it's the flavor of the month or something.

>>8512941
>the "real" fan
>not primary

>>8512941

>cosplays

get
the
fuck
out

>>8512945
Yes now shut up and enjoy the shitstorm

>>8512946
What's wrong with cosplaying?

>>8512932
>The change from UFO to TD was jarring in most people's opinions.

What about FW though?

>>8512956
Non integer game. Who cares.

>>8512932
TD's shot types do seem much more balanced compared to other games though. I don't feel as if any of them are useless, though Sanae does feel like a bit of a spare wheel.

I don't like TD as a game though. It really is too easy both in terms of bullet patterns and the fact that the scoring system just encouraged not dodging things anyway.

The patterns were pretty boring in general too.

>>8512955
it's usually done by landwhales and attentionwhores and it never looks as good irl

>>8513011
Try googling Touhou cosplay

>>8513020

3D is always PD. If you can't understand even that, you should leave.

>>8513011
Try leaving /cgl/

>>8512941
What about those who care nothing about story/game and just are in it for the Music?

So let's see we have:

Border team with magic death bombing in IN
Unlimited bombs in MoF
Easy lives and cherry boarders PCB
Or Trance'in TD?

I find the others games and their mechanics/ high numbers of bombs lives they give you making the game easier than TD.

>>8512838
>gaining popularity
Whether there'll be another jolt of new attention to come or not is up in the air, but from here it looks like Touhou is obviously past its peak and heading straight toward plateauing.

But we can all agree that FW all gold medal run is the hardest thing in the Touhou series right?

Harder than Lunatic UFO.

>>8513064
>Unlimited bombs in MoF
>implying losing a fourth of your power every time you bomb was anything but a detriment

>>8513072
>Implying it isn't easy to get that energy back and that bombs don't rape bosses more so than real bombs do in the other games.

>>8513072

4.0 power is the maximum. If you bomb at 5.0 power your damage doesn't drop.

>>8513065
I've been hearing that pretty much as long as /jp/ existed.

Keep repeating yourself, guys, one day you'll actually be right.

>>8513109
You can't deny he's right, if only for the simple fact everything becomes less popular over time. Touhou will hit a point where everyone loses interest.
Besides, nobody claims that Touhou was at its peak any time in the past four years. Those people you speak of are perfectly justified.

>>8513011
What, Touhou cosplay? Nah, all the people I've seen doing Touhou cosplay are neither. Maybe very minor attention whoring at the very most. Just about everyone I've met doing it have been really cool though.

HRtP through IN are the best because they port to OSX Lion with no problems using CXEx (excluding a glitch in EoSD that makes the game play at ~600fps fullscreen)

I had every game excluding SWR and Hisoutensoku working on Snow Leopard but the old CXZ engines stopped working with Lion. Upgrades are a pain sometimes.

>>8513065

>Touhou is obviously past its peak and heading straight toward plateauing

But that's wrong. Touhou attracts more and more fans and doujin artists as time progresses. Touhou will only begin to recede when ZUN stops making games.

I think the series re-peaked with UFO and GFW. I hope TD was an aberration and we'll get something good this year.

Claiming to be a primary fan or calling someone else a secondary makes you look retarded. Please control your ego and allow everyone to enjoy touhou.

>>8511863

Given the last couple of games(especially SA) have been on the annoyingly difficult side, I don't think that's all that bad.

TD isn't bad because of its difficulty. Stop being inconsiderate and condescending to people who aren't good at danmaku.

Holy shit... this is still up....

after reading the entire thread I realised something.!

40% or more posts are pure trolling and whats worse everyone keeps responding to those trolls.

>>8513309
Who the fuck do you think you are talking to you little shithead?

>>8514095
>/jp/
>Caring about feelings

I'm quoting myself from the past.

Someone calling me a secondary or some shit isn't going to affect my enjoyment of the games.
I suck at guitar but I still enjoying jamming out some riffs.
Someone calling me a metal fag isn't gonna make me enjoy it less.

People who get butthurt over some stupid label are obviously very swallow.

>>8514168
You actually sound pretty mad at the moment. Maybe that's why you take out all of your teenage angst with HARCORE METAL SCREAMO 4LYFE XDDD ROCK ON

>>8514187

Fuck yea, It's my way of venting from getting owned by danmaku!

>>8514197
Dammit I didn't expect to get trolled back, I'm going to bed.

>>8513064
The pattern are much easier in TD, therefore you suck dicks and TD is pure shit, deal with it.

PCB and IN were awesome. Both STB's were awesome. Great Fairy Wars is one of the best Touhou games ever made.

Ten Desires sucks dog shit, MoF was too easy and boring, UFO was okay, SA's bearable.

YAY OPINIONS.

Those who actually enjoy the games will be busy playing them rather than taking part in this pointless thread.

>>8514672
Please use your awesome engrish!

Why are people still posting in this shitty thread

>>8514667
I myself didn't like tenn desires, but that's just cause of difficulty and I didn't like most the music, but GFW had best music in a long time and was a great game to boot
UFO was fun as all shit and had some great tracks
SA was fun
I didn't like MoF as much as everything before it, but SA and UFO made up for that

>>8514680
>Trying to change argument
Don't worry, you can still hide your face somewhere.

>>8514698

You should at least try to be coherent when you quote thin air, fagteeth.

>>8514698
Trying to change argument? That was my first post on this thread, fucktard.

This is like the biggest shitstorm I've ever seen, even bigger than Umineko's threads

>>8514714
I'm betting many people posted in this thread just for trolling and don't even know what's TD.

I only played the demo back when the last two episodes of Madoka aired.

>>8513064
>Border team with magic death bombing in IN
Bombing, especially death bombing, reduces time and will invalidate spell card bonuses.
>Unlimited bombs in MoF
Unintentional bombs are detrimental to score in a variety of ways.
>Easy lives and cherry boarders PCB
Breaking borders in most cases is detrimental to score.
>Or Trance'in TD?
Trancing in TD is de... wait, no, nevermind, you're supposed to sit on top of the boss and bomb/trance/suicide constantly for maximum score.

>>8514876
>scorescorescore
There it is your problem.

>>8515520
Don't troll

>>8515525
Just telling the truth.

Anyone who doesn't like the games the most is a fucking disgusting secondary shitstain upon the community. No excuses.

So many shitty posters who found touhou perhaps 3 years ago claim to be primary fans because they know all the stories and character bullshit. Touhou is not about characters or story. Fanwork shit is NOT OFFICIAL.

The most pathethic posts here are about secondary scum claiming that there are no such things as primary or secondary. Go back to your IOSYS music fanvideos and jerk off over the characters who apparently all have sex with each other.

>>8515520
Not really. Point items or scoring usually means more lives except for SA and higher.

>>8515571
I wish I was samefagging when I say I think this post is the most truthful of every post ever made about touhou. I wish I was you.

YOU'RE STILL GONNA CALL ME A SAMEFAG ANYWAY. PLEASE DO. I WANT TO BE (>>8515571), SO PLEASE CALL ME A SAMEFAG.

The people who only think about the games are the ones who deserve to say the word "Touhou".

>>8515571
>>8515592
>be me
>enjoy and own touhou fanworks
>enjoy and own touhou official works
>greentext to not-quote
>give 0 fucks
>not bitter about petty distinctions
Good to be me.

>>8515592
>only

Wrong. Even ZUN thinks you're wrong.

>>8514160
People like me who can't play 1cc any Touhou game (yes even TD and IN) are the best fans.

They keep getting their asses beat, never winning or succeeding in any game. They watch as many people in the same fandom 1cc and brag about it on the internet. Despite all this they don't give up. There's nothing to give up. They don't play for the glory of winning the play for the glory of touhou.

tl;dr it takes a real champ to keep losing but still play the game.

>>8515636
Gonna need some proof for that, busta.

>>8515634
Get out of /jp/.

>>8515662
Not needed, you should've spotted the flaw already.
>games only
What about the official works that aren't the games?

>>8515592
I was afraid that /jp/ was full of this secondary scum but atleast there is one sane person who actually enjoys touhou.

>>8515634
9BALL BAKA BAKA SUPPATENKO MARISAxALICE XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

>>8515636
Except he doesn't.

>>8515652
Everyone loses once. Even the best players lost the first time they played. But the difference between them and you is that you keep losing because you're terrible.

>>8515682
Don't take out your frustrations on everyone else.

>>8515678
Books and stories are secondary shit. It's like reading only the manual of a videogame and then claiming you are a fan of said videogames. No way you people can be serious about this shitty "official book" shit.

>>8515682
>enjoy and own touhou official works
>actually quoting

>>8515700
Alright you're just trying to stir shit up, have a nice day Anonymous.

>>8515682
I find amusing that you claim to be a TRU TOUHOU FAN, because you look like you came straight from /v/

>>8515712
I wouldn't be surprised if /v/ has a better Touhou fanbase than /jp/. But then again, that won't be saying much.

Every single Touhou game has its strong points, and I enjoy playing all of them. So there.

The hell is a TD?
Sounds like something you'd catch off a cheap whore.

>>8515770
xD LOL

>>8515708
Nope. Face it. Those books are just a SECONDARY source of income for ZUN. It doesn't mean that it actually equates to anything else for Touhou it self.

>>8515682
>Everyone loses once. Even the best players lost the first time they played. But the difference between them and you is that you keep losing because you're terrible.

That doesn't change what I said one bit.

>>8515708
Yeah, just claim I'm stirring shit up because you have no argument. Just do that. Maybe it will go away. Ignorance is bliss.

But touhou is about the games. The books are extra material. Besides the official books aren't even drawn by drawn by ZUN. Not sure why you still think it somehow makes you better than the guy who only reads generic doujins about touhou.

>>8515707
>greentexting_implyingimplications.jpg.exe
I wasn't even entirely serious with this touhou meme answer. But that answer you gave makes it obvious that you're a touhou meme spouting /v/ user.

>>8515700
Because Touhou is only a video game. Not an art book, collection of official music CDs and Manga. Playing the game is not a prerequisite for being a primary fan, consuming the official works is.

>>8515792
Read:
>>8512731
Reading the books or listening to the CDs does not make you a primary fan. Stop making shit up and read the definition.

>>8515788
>Yeah, just claim I'm stirring shit up because you have no argument.
This isn't a debate. Contrary opinion doesn't segue into a debate and if someone calls out your confrontational tone of voice he's not doing it because they can't argue with you. He's doing it because you are a dick and you're shitting up /jp/.

Your tone of voice and "debate" approach to threads on /jp/ makes me think you're not from around here.

>>8515803
From the thread:
>Probably has an interest in secondary works, but most likely enjoys the main games and ZUN's works more so.
>ZUN's works more so.

The official music CDs, information books, written stories and manga are all official ZUN works.

>>8515803

From the same thread:

>Elitist Douchebag fan: One who categorizes the fan base and generally ruins it for everyone.

>arbitrary labeling of categories that makes it clear I am right and superior and everything that's wrong is the fault of you and your ilk

They were right 2008 and 4 years later they're still right. The one random guy with a thread that's not even fifty posts long makes up a definition of an asinine categorizing term and he's now the end all end all reference to it. One guy making shit up in 2008 is no different than what you accuse me of doing.

>>8515652
I don't think you remembered what the word "champ" means.

If you base your enjoyment of a thing entirely upon the other people who enjoy said thing, you are an idiot.
People who honestly care about classifying other people in terms of 'primary' and 'secondary' are secondary by their own definition because they spend way too much time giving a shit about things that aren't the games themselves.

The only one I really dislike is SA, and I don't know why. It's not bad, but every time I play it I get so depressed. I can't seem to have any fun playing it no matter what.

We got some 8/10 trolling going on here. I wish you'd expand a bit more though, your whole thing seems to be "I'm absolutely right so you're all wrong just admit it" which while it gets replies, doesn't have the rationality that a 10/10 would need.

>>8516713
>implying trolls are rational