/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Great project, hope it works out.

Go nuts, mod.

But does it have the backing of the most prominent and influential VN communities that is /jp/?

>>8467652
Yes, and Amaterasu Translations, too.

You know, I will always associate Hareten with Aaeru's bullshit because of that avatar now.

>>8468620
>insulting a site that isn't even up yet

I don't even get what the big deal is. It looks exactly like erogedownload but with a nicer layout.

The old thread isn't even dead yet. Couldn't this trolling have waited or have been condensed in that thread?

>>8470485
erogedownload is a piracy hub, not a "Let's unite all translators and openly embrace piracy!".
It also aspires to carry direct dialogue with Japanese developers directly.

I really like the first site template, it looks nice. But, the thing I don't like is that it introduces VNs, AND eroge, to normals and weeaboos who think it's only porn.

Wow, just checked out the site, looks pretty great. I hope it comes online soon.

>>8470504
So it's like erogedownload but full of itself. Okay.

>>8470491
This thread was made yesterday, n00blord.

>>8468620
S-sorry...

>>8470474
uh, the site is up and functioning, not our fault the site was launched with only pictures of content instead of, you know, content

ITT: People who made their mind up about the site and decided to hate it before they even read the various proposals.
Seriously, there's no way you read through even one of the threads in the two or three minutes it took you to reply. You just looked at the pictures and said, "Welp it's new! BETTER HATE IT LOL". Now anything you read will just support your confirmation bias, even though it's objectively a good idea.

>>8470525
Quoted for truth. Seriously, I don't know why these people all have to get on my ass for actually trying to do something good. Even if it fails, at least I tried, which is more than most of you can say. Why not just wait and see what happens, rather than ridiculing me for no reason?

>>8470525
Get out Fuwanovel Devs.
If you want /jp/ to care, then don't post a single thread about it, and don't reply to a single thread like this.

You're not clever nor funny, OP. Give up.

>>8470535
Not even. See it this way:
Do you like VNs?
Do you download VNs?
Great, then you have another convenient mirror. Just avoid the community if it turns out to suck or whatever. You're not automatically supporting Aaeru's views just by USING the site.

>>8470533
Because vague proposals of this sort on the internet overwhelmingly vaporize with producing anything whatsoever. If you want to be taken seriously, get something up first and change it later, an 'open dialogue' about goals or whatever is going to get nothing.

Just throw pages for every major ongoing and completed fan project up there as torrents or something. If you do it relatively soon, you'll get traffic thanks to erogedownload's problems atm, and using that traffic you can try to build an actual community. HTH

>>8470521
C-can I suck on your breasts,Aaeru dear?

>>8470525
is that copypasta from the site or something? because people have been reading that shit since yesterday

>>8470562
She's started her project with clear goals in mind. I think that's the best thing you can do with any sort of project. If she made Eroge Download 2.0 and then gradually shifted to, "Oh now I want to have an impact on the industry!" people would have complained and perhaps boycotted the site.
Woxxy is a good example here. Imagine if--before he even started the FoOlz archive--he laid out his goals for everyone. If he said, "I'm going to rewrite the scripts and make it look Web 2.0 and add jQuery/AJAX and my own board and Catalog because I want to be the next moot." If he'd said that from the start, people would have just ignored the site or whatever. But because he's shifted into it from a *good* position, he's pissed a lot of people off.

I'm not saying Aaeru's goals are good or bad, I'm just saying it's good that she wrote them up so we know exactly what this is.

>>8470587
she also radically changed them in the space of two days

>>8470580
Read the posts in the thread.
­>>8470474 bumped it with his greentext faggotry to be a douche.
After that, people pretty much said, "I like the pictures (>>8470505) or that they *just* checked it out or implied they did (>>8470507, >>8470514)

>>8470593
Aaaaand the last couple projects she was on, she abandoned unfinished with claims that she was dying.

Not to mention that everything about this particular one reeks of being naive and ignorant of basic tenants of business and how the world works.

>>8470593
It's a new website. It's going to have teething problems. All websites do. 4chan was going to have an archive and an affiliated anime blog and all sorts of crazy things in its early days. People change their minds, especially as they receive comments and criticism.

>>8470521
Japanese fans were furious at Nazuna for being so annoying
To think that a jitsumai game didn't liked much, it hurts...

>Please be kind, meido!
Thats cute.

>>8470601
So why do you complain when we employ criticism? All the shit that's written on there it's indefensibly retarded, and that's what people are talking about, not how we hate the idea of a new community itself or anything despite what you want to believe.

Last thread.
>>8464629

>>8470634
Explain how it's "indefensibly retarded". Because I haven't seen a single argument against it that actually made sense, besides "lol pirates are bad".

There's nothing left to say on this topic. The maker is crazy. Discussing it any more is only going to attract people who like trolling and drama.

Will they also promote "visual novels" and eroge with loli or guro contents?

>>8470634
> you
Just because I'm defending it doesn't mean I'm involved in the site. Though if you want to believe that save yourself some, "LOL YEA RITE," responses and just treat me as a random anonymous stranger that doesn't matter regardless.
Anyway, nobody's against criticism. I think Aaeru was a bit stupid when she wrote something like, "We don't like elitism. If you think you're above criticism please leave." because that's a stupid thing to say. Though I think that was just poor wording on her part and I hope she fixes it.
What I am personally against is people flaming this for stupid reasons. Yes this is 4chan and "LOL UR A FAGGOT" is common and we all have thick skin, but there's no reason to attack this website. If you say her goals are too "idealistic" then that sort of suggests you at least like the crazy, unrealistic ideas she has. I mean, wouldn't you like a true Western VN industry? Say what you want about "casuals" from /a/ or whatever, but YOU are a Western VN fan, and you had to start somewhere. This would benefit you, even now.
Besides, if you completely hate the idea with a passion and you want nothing more than for Aaeru to drop down dead, so what? You get a new mirror like Eroge Download, all nicely wrapped up in a flashy directory for your convenience. That's not a bad thing by anyone's measure.

>>8470662
Shut the fuck up and suck her breasts,dude.

>>8470662
Nobody on /jp/ is saying that, so that's kind of a non-argument. We're all "pirates" here.
Also for extra e-cred you should qualify your use of the word "pirate" with the following link:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Piracy

>>8470681
>Besides, if you completely hate the idea with a passion and you want nothing more than for Aaeru to drop down dead, so what? You get a new mirror like Eroge Download, all nicely wrapped up in a flashy directory for your convenience. That's not a bad thing by anyone's measure.

Aside from pissing off the Japanese companies further and increasing the likelihood that they'll become less likely to want to bring things over AND more aggressive with C&Ds.

>>8470533
Your Fuwanantoka already left /jp/ with bad impression and thus should have no future.

Deal with it.

>>8470710
Sounds like a victory to me. Learn japanese and shut up about VNs in the west.

This shit's kawaii as fuck.
Though here's a sensible critique from some guy on the forums:
http://yirba.github.com/fuwanovel.html

It even has brightly colored text everywhere, so Aaeru's readers should feel right at home!

I find this incredibly stupid.
Yes, a vast majority of us pirate the games.
The difference is we're not trying to make it look like that's a good thing.
We tell people to buy the games to support the original creators fully knowing that most will likely just pirate it.

What you're trying to do is basically blackmail VN makers into licensing their works otherwise you'll provide an easy access place to pirate their stuff because at least there's a natural barrier there preventing more people from pirating their games.

Worse, you're making it easier to pirate their stuff by making pre-installed packages. You are, effectively, worse than the people who upload their games for others to pirate.

So at best, they ignore you. It's not money lost for them if they never intended to sell here. All the pirates get a convenient location to pirate things and you can be satisfied in the knowledge that you've opened up a whole new world of piracy to those that wouldn't have done so otherwise.

At worst, they become even colder to the western world and even more aggressively try to stop fan translations. At the very least get your site shut down.

That's basically why I find this stupid.
On the bright side, easy access piracy while it's around, so thanks for that.

>>8470747
The guy's critique can be summed up by the bolded words he uses early on: "I hate piracy." He believes piracy is unacceptable, I believe it is a necessary evil. Obviously this is an irreconcilable difference in opinion that has been debated thousands of times before, you could as easily try to debate atheism vs religion or something.

Just email the HELL out of companies and say, "Hey bros, can we translate your game and put it up for download? We'll give you XX% of the profit." They may even be willing to do it quite "casually" since these are small companies and the Western market doesn't really affect them, they just get money of it. Similar to anime/manga licensing.

Plus selling downloadable VNs for a smallish fee could work. Wait and see if Christine Love's new VN makes any money:
http://ahatestory.com/

>>8470760
>What you're trying to do is basically blackmail VN makers into licensing their works otherwise you'll provide an easy access place to pirate their stuff
I wonder if JAST and Mangagamer do this in their negotiations when dealing with fan translations...

This site is pointless and the plan isn't going to work.

You're admitting to, encouraging, and facilitating piracy in order to generate a Western fanbase/market? Anyone interested in VNs already knows how to procure them. Most Westerners aren't hip to chinese porn games, and Japanese aren't cool with baka gaijin openly pirating their software. I can only see this as detrimental to the current fanbase and future of fan translation. By drawing unnecessary attention to what you're doing, you will only make it worse.

>>8470747
They ripped the Download button from Nyaa.eu. WTF?

>>8470787

>>8470780
The point isn't to reach those already interested in VNs. The point is to expose those who never even knew about them to the medium.
>>8470787
It's just meant to be a rough estimation of what the final site will look like. Obviously things like that aren't going to be in the real version.

>>8470761
>I believe it is a necessary evil.
A lot of people do, that's why most of us don't discourage it. Even yirba says he isn't trying to stop piracy.

The difference here is that you're actively promoting piracy.
You're even making it easier to pirate the games.

>>8470804
And so what? People don't buy VNs because they don't know how to pirate them. Because a person who can't find a simple torrent link sure as hell isn't going to jump through the hoops in order to import it. They buy them because they want to support the creators, they want a box they can display, or because of a deep moral aversion to pirating the games. None of these reasons are affected even in the slightest by what I am doing. And obviously by raising awareness to these titles, the very small group of those users who decide to procure them legitimately is bound to grow as well.

>>8470795
Is that Bisu?

>>8470761
"Piracy" isn't even a real thing. Like if you're selling a game disc or something then yeah, people should pay for it. You're selling them a product. Make it look flashy and mark it up a little, there's nothing wrong with making profit. However getting 0s and 1s from a different website to the creators' isn't theft. It's copying. It costs nothing to the original creator. They're not even paying for bandwidth because it's hosted on Megaupl-...Mediafire or it's a torrent or whatever.
I guess for the Western market you can make the case that piracy is an "anti-purchase", like if I can find a torrent I'll just download a game for free that I otherwise would have bought. But as debatable as that is, it doesn't even apply here because very, very few people want to (or even can) import games and pay all the steep taxes and shipping charges. Even if piracy wasn't an option, hardly anybody would do it. You're not even "supporting the industry" here: your one, single purchase of a game disc is doing a lot more for Nippon Yusen and FedEx or whoever than it is for the original development team.

And as a last, personal note, I think everything should be free as in freedom (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html).). Even artwork, which isn't software, should be released under a Creative Commons license or similar. People should still be able to charge for it, but there should be no stupid restrictions on distribution and sharing. You can still make money this way, and the sooner people realize this, the better.

Where's the old thread?

>>8470796
>Aaeru !n1hpXye3Jw

GET HIM.

>>8470816
except what you're doing will make it harder for people to support their creators through English releases because licenses will be harder, forcing all the people who would've bought the games to spend a lot more money importing or giving up entirely
you're, ironically, going to make it harder for people to show their mass support, and forcing everyone else to rely on frantranslations that could be dropped at any time or never be completed, not even started to begin with rather than professional licenses

>>8470824
Not only was it linked in this thread, we also have a Catalog and two archives that you can use to find it.
Lurk more and learn how to browse /jp/ correctly.

>>8470816
>so what?

Are you serious? Do you really think companies will welcome you with open arms with such methods? Get real.
You have people who managed to get the attention of companies, such like Witch Hunt, NNL, and heck even Ixrec was initially contacted, even though it didn't bear fruit.

Instead, what you are doing is the complete opposite: it won't encourage japanese companies to involve themselves with the western market, if they see this market doomed by piracy, even more so when a website is publically doing it, in a fashion that makes look "rightful".

You are trying to blackmail them, and it won't have the desired results.

>>8470816
The "so what?" here is presentation.
I agree the whole piracy thing is silly and most smaller dev studios won't really care.
But the larger ones will see it as a bad thing.
They have zero reason to want anything to do with a group that will actively promote and offer the pirating of their games.

This does nothing to help bring over the larger VNs.
It might help bring over the smaller VNs, but you'd have just as good a chance if people just talked to the developers behind those since they're more likely to agree and support fan translations anyway.

>>8470835
I fail to see why what I am doing is making licensing harder in the slightest. I've already made it very clear that I will not allow licensed games to be uploaded. If a few Japanese companies decide to be babies about it and refuse to license because they see foreigners pirating their products, then so be it. They'll come around when they see everyone else making money on it.
>>8470839
Why should I care if they're unhappy with what I'm doing? I said I wanted to support the English VN industry, not make a few individual companies happy. I'm aware they'll hate me for this, and that's just fine.

>>8470820
Its from city hunter

>>8470846
So who's on board for this anyway?
Almost all fan translators are against piracy so I'm curious about the ones who'll agree to this.

>>8470846
The issue with increasing density of fan translations is that once people have already read a fan translated VN for free, they may be less likely to pay money again for the same title.

>>8470796
>The point isn't to reach those already interested in VNs.
That's obvious. The point is, people have managed on their own up to this point. Anyone who gains interest in the medium in the future will eventually figure all of this stuff out on their own if they care enough about it.

I was saying that your exposure will likely do more damage than good. Most westerners don't care about VNs, and showcasing your piracy is going to further dissociate the producers of these VNs from western fans. If you want attention from the makers, this is the wrong way to do it.

>>8470862
>are against piracy
"officially" anyway. But that part is important.

>>8470846
Dropping your false pretense then? Do you realize your statement basically state you don't give a shit about the creators, as long people can read what they made?

This is ludicrous in many ways. Sorry, but such disrespect for the companies makes me wonder if you truly care about VN. The more I read between the lines, the less I can't deny some anon comment that you have just a savior complex, and don't give a rat ass about the real VN scenery.

>>8470870
Well, yes, of course.
The point is to at least look like you're against it.

>>8470846
>Why should I care if they're unhappy with what I'm doing? I said I wanted to support the English VN industry, not make a few individual companies happy.
For starters, the companies are the industry. I am not sure if you have "the community" and "the industry" mixed up or something, but the corporate world are notably wary of piracy and these kinds of activities.

>>8470846
Could you pretend this never happened and go back to blogging? If anyone wanted to read all the latest VNs we all would just learn Japanese. I'm sure the majority of /jp/ is doing so anyway.

>>8470846
>They'll come around when they see everyone else making money on it.
And how will everyone else make this money if no one licenses their games to begin with? You have your head su up your ass with your desire to become an important figure in the scene you can't think straight

>>8470876
The creation will always be more important than the creators. The creators importance only goes as far as they can be expected to create more works on par with what we already have. Sure, I'm grateful to them for what they've given us, but let's be real here.

I said it in the last thread, and I will say it here.

This is a fucking bad idea. It's even worse when many of the fan translators you say you want to work with ASK PEOPLE USING THEIR PATCHES TO BUY THE FUCKING GAMES INSTEAD OF PIRATE THEM.

This is going to tell them that you don't give a fuck about what they say, and it is going to tell the Japanese companies that we'll just take and translate the games ourselves for free. We won't buy their games because we have no NEED to.

And of course, you claim to want to ENCOURAGE them to make license deals.

Well, I think you failed some business lessons there dumb ass.

And no I am not against fan translations, and I don't give a fuck if you pirate. I just hate fucking morons.

>>8470846
I refer to the idea of breaking down technical barriers

>- Not everybody knows how to uncompress a .rar file.
>[Therefore no .rar file]
That's crazy talk. Really.

>- Not everybody knows how to mount an .ISO file.
>[Therefore pre-install the game before release.] note: some virus issues arise
Not really happy with that decision, but Mangagamer's been doing that for a while I guess. Still, I'm fairly sure most people know or can figure out what to do with an ISO.

>- Not everybody knows/wants to change their system to display non-unicode
programs in Japanese.
>[Therefore, hack the .exe file so that it does not require the user to do so]
Fair enough

>- Not everybody understands that they have to install twice, first the game and then second an English patch (usually in that order)
>[Pre-install the game WITH the English patch.]
I'm not sure that's necessary. The average internet citizen should be able to understand that the game is in Japanese and a patch needs to be applied, and know how to run a simple executable or copy a patch file.


Overall, apart from the system locale issue, I feel that these proposals are being severely contemptuous of the average person's intelligence and ability to follow simple instructions or guides.

>>8470891
You must be seriously out of touch with reality if you think that when localization companies with real money to throw around (not just tiny struggling companies like JAST or MangaGamer) come looking for a deal, not a single Japanese developer will sign on.

A lot of these games have download versions available or can be purchased online. It would work out way better to provide directions on how to use these services, or if you're super cool, try to arrange something English usable going like what they did over with umineko. That way you don't piss people off and people that want to pirate can still do so.

>>8470892
>This entire post
Welp

>>8470896
I fucking hate pre-installs.

>>8470901
What? Putting the creators up on a pedestal is completely idiotic. It's like saying I should give a shit about some waiter even though they're not currently in the process of serving me food. I like the work they do, but that's it. I have no reason to care about them beyond that.

>>8470897
And where or who would these localization companies with real money be?

>>8470914
They show up when the Western VN fanbase becomes large enough to sustain them. At the moment we need to work towards getting to that point.

>>8470822
It's easy to pick at the entertainment industry's overblown language, but you, in your own way, are simplifying a complex problem to the exact opposite extreme.

Intellectual property allows people to make money developing things that could otherwise be exploited by everyone. IP is the reason we have the amount of books, movies, music, and games produced that we do now - that's just reality. Relying on altruism or patrons is not a comparable alternative.

Of course current IP law is excessively restrictive and oriented towards allowing Disney to leech profits off movies produced by people who have been dead for decades. But allowing pure 'freedom' to copy everyone's work instantly is just as intellectually shallow a response to the dilemma as calling every floppy that gets copied a 'theft.'

>>8470913
>Waiter
The better comparison is the cook/chef.
And you stealing their food and setting up a stall outside their restaurant giving it away.

Then going inside the restaurant and asking the chef why they aren't cooking anything new.

>>8470897
>not just tiny struggling companies like JAST or MangaGamer
What companies? JAST is the biggest in the field, and even MangaGamer are big enough for it to be very hard a new company to surpass them.

Unless you could magically convince some of the big players of books and or video games or something, then there aren't anyone else.

>>8470897
You are even more out of touch from reality by pretending you aren't stepping on publishers business, yet do not give a rat ass about the japanese companies.

Think it straight: publishers cannot magically make the companies agree, and no matter how you look at this, there is no way a rogue and incontrollable website providing pirated game would make the task easier for the publishers to have deal with the japanese companies.

You are just sabotaging the whole situation, for your own self importance.

>AAERU
>FUWANOVEL

Everything that needs to have been said has been said in like, 5 different threads already.

- Aaeru is an insane bitch/faggot who can't argue for shit.

- VN piracy scene is FINE the way it is. Fan translators usually do a decent job. Everybody know's what's erogedownload, what IRC channels everybody hangs out on, and the owner of the site is doing a good job on keeping his fans updated amidst the DDL shit.

- Aaeru doesn't understand the nuance of Japanese piracy. Copyright holders usually look the other way as long as you pirate discretely. Webfronts like VNDB and TLWiki do not associate themselves with piracy for good reason-- because piracy and fan translation should REMAIN SEPARATE. Aaeru wants to release FULLY PATCHED games for the sake of convenience of technically inept people who don't know how to open .rar files. This is going to draw much unneeded attention to the piracy scene.

- Aaeru is an attention whore who is stirring up unnecessary shit under an idealist premise that Japanese companies are going to view increased piracy as increased demand.

We may not like JAST and other localization companies, but at least they aren't raging hypocrites.

>>8470919
Because that is totally how this shit works, right?

>>8470919

Well, I understand that in your theoretical case they'll show up at that point, but shouldn't they already exist at this point in time if they are "big" enough?

>>8470926
I'm not stealing their food. A better comparison would be me stealing their recipes, and then giving out the exact same food somewhere else for free, while telling my customers where they can get the real deal.

>>8470938
But you're giving away the finished product.
You aren't making another VN from scratch using their "recipe" so to speak.

And if it's the exact same food for free and "the creations are more important than the creators" why in the hell would anyone pay money for the real deal?

Because clearly there's no reason to support the creators if the creations are more important.

Hopefully most fan translation groups can see the logical fallacies in this proposal and refuse to support it, and this project can die in the womb.

>>8470938
So...any answer for >>8470862 ?
Unless you plan to put the site up with no content.
Or you plan to use fan translations without their permission and piss them off to.

>>8470952
Except the recipe involves none of the work or effort to actually make it. You're just putting your little stamp on their finished product and then giving it away.

>>8470952
The creators have to eat too, and plenty of people can see that. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't worship them and treat their wishes like something sacred.

>>8470952
FUCKING. THIS.

I will copy what I said in the other thread here.

"A bigger fanbase built on piracy alone is going to just turn them away. No companies are going to come forward with money, and even if they did they would turn them down.

Because we already have their games.

And clearly WE DON'T FUCKING NEED THEM APPARENTLY YOU DUMB BITCH."

>>8470938
You want to create a Crunchyroll?

>>8470761

Yes, I hate piracy. We could debate whether it's necessary or not, but that would be futile.

Look, how do you want the visual novel industry to look in the future? Personally, I'd love to see a time when fan translators and Japanese developers work together to make visual novels available around the world.

We should try to convince developers that fan translations can benefit them. That they can encourage people to buy and play these games.

Heck, just establishing contact is a start. We just sent an email to 07th Expansion, and they gave us permission to translate Higanbana no Saku Yoru ni.

Yes, it would be difficult to negotiate with certain developers… but if we don't try, we will never get anywhere.

If we negotiate with developers, and show them that fan translations can benefit them, I'm sure they'll be more than interested.

Fuwanovel… Well, it isn't helping.

>>8470963
Except the reasons people buy VNs in the West have nothing to do with the availability of the game itself.
>>8470965
Sure, given the chance.

>>8470931
>under an idealist premise that Japanese companies are going to view increased piracy as increased demand.

Oh god, does that person really believe that?

Capitalism doesn't work that way, honey, especially in the middle of a global financial crisis. Companies are desperate, they only view piracy as lost money, they are too stressed to think of it as a different way of demand. And you basically hold a giant, glowing sign saying: "Hey, look, we are stealing your money and shitting on your carpet!"

>>8470971
>Except the reasons people buy VNs in the West have nothing to do with the availability of the game itself.
ahahah oh wow

I'm really tempted to email Richard Stallman and ask him what his views on this are.

Keep this up though. It's seriously the most entertaining flame war I've ever read on 4chan.

>>8470977
You really think people are importing VNs simply because they're unable to pirate them? Really?

>>8470533
I think the idea is fine. People just sperg out over anything when they're bored.

I'm 100% sure you'll get a C&D letter from Peter Payne though. I think people forget that he used to give these out routinely back in the day. Mangagamer might do the same thing too. Personally I say save yourself the trouble and don't waste your time hosting their games.

>>8470961
Everyone will say "Everyone else will support them, meanwhile I will just pirate that shit, keep my money and not be a sucker"

It's called social loafing. Please learn how the world works.

>>8470971
I can't help but think that you're taking the model of "organized fansubbing = huge market for anime" and trying to translate that to VNs, despite it not being completely applicable.

>>8470931
>piracy and fan translation should REMAIN SEPARATE
PLEASE READ THIS. By combining the two, any efforts against piracy will also be focused against fan translation.

If you care about fan translation AT ALL, you should realize that you're making a grave mistake. At best, a new localization company might pop-up, we might get more titles. At worst, the act of fan-translation might become synonymous with piracy--illegal.

>>8470938
>I'm not stealing their food.
>stealing their recipes, and then giving out the exact same food somewhere else for free
Are you serious? It's the same fucking thing. You are stealing from them and insinuating, whether you mean to or not, that if they don't cater to a western audience, people will continue pirating.

In the particular instance of (unlicensed) VNs, there's absolutely no moral reason not to pirate because there is no reasonable alternative being provided to us to do so. It's the exact same situation as the anime fansub community 15 years ago.

I don't see how anyone can argue we have a moral obligation to pay for content when the creators haven't put in the effort to sell it to us. The people putting in the effort of making these games accessible in English are the fan translators, their work is what creates the intellectual property value of a translated game. The japanese companies don't deserve profits for an adaptation they did nothing to create.

The only reasonable question is, legally and practically, whether you can get away with this benign piracy.

>>8470991
No I won't, because I won't put up anything licensed.

>>8471002
You can still get C&D'd for hosting stuff that they might be negotiating in the background.

Basically, if you put up anything that has a chance of getting brought over by JAST/MG then you can get C&D'd if they're trying to negotiate a license for it.

Especially if your site actively makes it harder to attain the license.

When did Peter Payne become such a dickhole, anyway?
That faggot doesn't deserve the traffic 4chan gives him.

>>8471014
So they send me a nasty letter. If I see any actual progress being made on a release, I'll take the content down.

>>8471002
You'll just get takedown notices from the Japanese companies.

>>8470971
>Except the reasons people buy VNs in the West have nothing to do with the availability of the game itself.

..........
Wow. You're DUMB.

People buy the translated games because they ARE AVAILABLE IN ENGLISH and they like it. And people still pirate those, and some later do buy it anyway, but a lot don't.

Not many people buy the original games in Japanese, cause they are expensive as fuck to get.

So, by your logic, WHY DO WE IN THE WEST BUY OUR TRANSLATED GAMES HUH?

>>8471013
Nobody buys from his shit site anyway, unless you're a massive weeaboo.

>>8471002
And you really think putting non licensed content will help them licensing more VN?

Open your damn eyes: japanese companies would not be happy about that, and they wouldn't expect numbers if they see a website offering their damn product for free.
You can't expect them to have their money when their VN is already pirated, free and already obtained by the western fans.

That is also the reason why JAST had dealt with -unfinished- fan translation, since they can potentially release a better script, as the original translated one wasn't completely polished. But even so, it won't encourage anyone to have better licence if the market itself is creepled by self righteous piracy left and right.

Huh, you know, I actually agree with this. This is a GOOD IDEA.

Know why? Because it pisses off JAST and MangaGamer. It spits right in their fat, greedy faces. It's that simple.

Why are people arguing AGAINST this? It's doing no harm to you or your precious eroge, it's doing harm to people like Koryuu and MakotoJAST (as he calls himself on IRC now) and Blick Winkel and Peter Payne.

>>8471028
What I'm saying is that they don't buy them solely so they can play the games. For example, why does someone buy a loaf of bread? Because they want to eat that bread, and they cannot get it any other way. The same cannot be said of VNs. Buying a VN is a conscious decision to support the developer.

>>8471032
For the last time, I really could not care less if Japanese companies are happy with me.

>>8471028
>Not many people buy the original games in Japanese, cause they are expensive as fuck to get.
That, and most translated titles are older ones, so finding them outside of secondhand sites like Rakuten and Mandarake is difficult.
And then, especially if they still contain the bonuses they originally had, they'll probably sell for more than they initially retailed for.

>>8471033
Believe it or not, a lot of fan translators believe in supporting the original developers. It all helps expand the market.

Witch Hunt, for example, even managed to work with Hobibox to get a download version of Umineko available. I'm sure that attracted a lot of people who didn't want to import or pirate.

>>8471044
It's not about you.
They'd be unhappy in general.
As in they'd be more likely to reject localization offers because of this.

>>8471044
and for the last time, you don't seem to realize that if the japanese companies are unhappy with this, it will make mangagamer and JAST job even more difficult than it already is.

How do you expect the latter to convince japanese companies for X or Y licences, when the said licences are pirated happily right in the public?

>>8471044
Why are you so dumb. Pissed off Japanese companies means Mangagamer and JAST won't be able to get visual novels licensed at all.

After all, whats the point if all foreigners are blatant pirates, right?

People already know of VNs. Just take a single look at /a/ or even /v/ or gamefaqs or whatever and that becomes blatantly obvious.
VNs are still however incredibly tightly associated with Eroge, and Eroge has its own stigma that's problematic in terms of sales and what channels are available.

If VNs were to be sold through Steam, (as much as I hate steam for killing physical products), that would raise VN sales through the roof, and people from little around everywhere would read VNs.
Steam however won't even touch Eroge with a 10 foot stick.
They do however accept incredibly obscure Doujin games even in cases when there's barely any demand at all. Eroge however? That's a big, big no no.

Steam hates piracy however, and if Mangagamer and JAST can't even sell them in enough numbers, then Steam would never do so no matter how many people pirates it. If anything, they would blame the piracy for why Mangagamer and JAST can't sell it and use that for a reason as to why they shouldn't do it either.

And almost no Japanese business would stand behind fantranslators, if they also openly pirated their work. And keyword here is "openly".

When compared to anime, fansubbers have actually gotten its fair share of hate throughout the days, and even shit like Crunchy roll have gotten its fair share of despise until things got "sorted out".
Anime have however had the added benefit of for most part being safe for work, and publishers already within the medium, were already big and available.

Also, it might be interesting to note, that despite the very, active ero-anime translation community, "Animated Hentai" or whatever you want to call it, is still a significantly smaller business than even anime in general is in the west, despite the active piracy.
Ero-anime might be more properly compared to blown out nukige works, but eroge in general carries a huge stigma that's not easily overcome, piracy or not.

>>8471052
>>8471054
>>8471057
You guys act like they're a bunch of oversensitive children. These are businesses, for Christ's sake. They'll be annoyed, but not so much that they'll turn away easy money.

It amazes me how many heroes came out of the woodwork to bitch about stealing food from the mouths of our cranky Japanese masters, despite the fact that all other VN discussion on this board operates on the (completely reasonable) assumption of piracy.

Do you people seriously pay for imported copies of games from companies that actively do not want to sell their products to you?

Do you seriously believe that if we PRETEND we're not pirating their shit, they'll suddenly do a 180 and decide to translate it for us?

>>8471037
Stop using bad analogies.

Stop comparing VNs to goods required for survival.

You buy a loaf of bread because if you don't, you will DIE.
You don't buy your bread to support the baker.

>>8471044
You should if you want more professionally translated/localized titles here in the West. They will not be pissed at YOU, they will be pissed at fan-translators and the western fanbase in general.

You're actively contradicting yourself at this point.

>>8471022
>>You'll just get takedown notices from the Japanese companies.

It really depends. Some companies don't care about English translations (because they never planned to make money off English speakers anyways) while others do care.

>>8471002
Then there really is nothing wrong with fuwa then. I think a lot of people think you'll be hosting the games by JAST and Mangagamer for some reason.

>>8471037
... PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT HAHAHA You're funny. Yeah, we never ever just buy a game to play it, ever, even if we don't give 2 fucks about the company that made it.

WHAT INSANE TROLL LOGIC DO YOU RUN ON WOMAN?

>>8471063
Are you saying we'd have better chances if we openly admit to and provide services for pirating their games?

>>8471044
>I really could not care less if Japanese companies are happy with me.
If the Japanese companies are unhappy with it, it will make the work of all the western publishers harder too.
And the Japanese companies, were they to choose the western market (which they very well might choose not to if they are not happy with their estimates of it) then they will need publishers.

>>8471062
For christ's sake, how is it "easy money" when
1) Jast and Mangagamers have already troubles to sell VN already
2) that your damn site will be a open piracy website?

Easy money? How the bloody hell? Stop using pink colored goggles damnit. It shames me that you are a Vn reader like us.

Retarded project, just as fucking stupid as Peter Payne.

>>8471063
Yes, I kinda guessed Anon wanted people to argue for the sake of it after he reposted this thread 5 times in a row.

>>8471069
Did you miss the progression of the anime scene from 100% piracy to officially sanctioned streaming sites?

At least piracy demonstrates that we're interested.

>>8471062
>not so much that they'll turn away easy money.
you seem to mistake popularity with profitability. Take Monmusu quest, hundreds of thousands of download across different sites, prepackaged torrents, constant threads about it on /a/ and /v/, and still less than one hundred purchases on dlsite from after the patch was released. There's no "easy money" and you're simply delusional.

>>8471062
>easy money
What money are they to expect when a site hosts their titles for free and to a negligible market to boot.

>>8471082
Healthy flameshitstorms like this are the essence of life for the Internet. Let them flourish.

>>8471062
>They'll be annoyed, but not so much that they'll turn away easy money.
You have to realize, that they aren't annoyed for nothing, or annoyed because the simple notion of "piracy" is offensive to them on a philosophical level or something.
They are annoyed because they see piracy making this money a whole, lot harder to obtain. Or at least making it alot less reliable.
In either case, they see it turning the situation into anything but easy.

>>8471083
anime doesn't have porn in it, nor other questionable content

>>8471076
The reason they can't get sales is because the fanbase is so small. That is precisely the problem I am trying to solve here.

>>8471083
With the anime scene things were subbed as they were airing.
As in they weren't being sold at the moment.
Which at the time meant it was really freaking hard to access the shows via any other method.

With VNs there are many, many ways to buy the games, even if they are stupidly expensive to buy.
They are also made with the intent of selling them from the start.

This is the difference between the anime scene from back then and the VN scene now.

Okay, so

Why is it that all of a sudden we WANT VNs to be localized at all?

Eroge companies have never given a shit about the US fandom. Even anime companies don't give a shit about the US fandom and actively make it more difficult for us to buy their products.

So what's with all the sudden whiteknighting? You can't ALL be under JAST's pay.

The officials of Gotham City chooses to look the other way most of the time when it comes to Batman.
But Batman still needs to wear that mask, and its not only to protect him against the criminals.

>>8470982
I fucking bought physical copies Umineko because I want to support 07th Expansion. Assuming that "everyone will just pirate regardless of availability" is really naïve, and I'd prefer if you wouldn't think everyone pirates everything they see, thanks~

>>8471098
So, instead of promoting already established VN that can be bought etc, you are actually going on the piracy way?

Look, do you really think the fanbase in its entirety will buy the VN, after being feed with free stuff to begin with?
Increasing the VN fanbase will definitely increase the demand... but which one? Those who crave for more VN, or those who just want to support the companies?

The conclusion is quite obvious: the former will be the vast majority, and it will have a snowball effect: fan translators will be stuck in offering more content on the long run, and the increasing pirated content will upset the japanese companies more and more, screwing up english publishers.

This is a dumb idea, dude.

>>8471110
And you've just repeated exactly what I've been saying all along.

People don't buy VNs because they have no other way to play the VNs. They buy VNs to support the creators. Exactly like you said you did. This is completely unaffected by whether or not they can get the same content for free.

>>8471083
No, but have you seen the translation quality of these streaming sites? They're terribly inconsistent.

Of course, let's also forget how old the medium of anime is, how large the fanbase is, and how it's been tied into western culture since decades ago. It has taken roughly 30 years for these piss-poor streaming sites to pop up.

Now compare that to the visual novel medium.

>>8471106
>They are also made with the intent of selling them from the start.

What? Do you even read Visual Novels? Have you not been seeing all those JAPAN SALES ONLY notices?

>>8471102
because ideally a market that works and is profitable in providing games for the user than relying on the good will of random people who want to share that one or two games they like
instead of working towards making that market work, what they're doing is stomping on it as long as people know they could play those game thanks to them

>>8471062
This already happens in the US anime industry. a lot of good shows are never licensed because the the studios don't think Americans will buy them, no matter how much Funimation and crew try to convince them otherwise.

People wouldn't be so pissed off if Aaeru wasn't female. This is a very, very sad fact.

>>8471117
I didn't mean world-wide, I just meant they're made with the intent of selling them.
JAPAN ONLY, but they still mean to sell them.

Besides the small free ones anyway, but there's no issue with those over here in that case.

>>8471114
>People don't buy VNs because they have no other way to play the VNs.
Yes, that is why games that didn't have previous fantranslations like Demonbane, Kira Kira and Koihime are some of the best selling titles in the west.

>>8471121
True,this thread would of hit 404 long time ago if he was a guy. Which is why I'm not spamming this thread to hit post limit (yet).

Aaeru, your naivety is perhaps the most damning thing here. You seem enamored of this idea that all that needs to be done is to show VN companies that they need to work with fans, completely ignoring every single real-world problem with that as if VN companies had unlimited time and resources.
First off, VN companies are tiny and I highly doubt most even have the English speaking skills on hand required for that, which means that they have no way of verifying the quality of the product. If you think UNiSONSHIFT would want to be associated with Cudder's Flyable Heart 'translation', you're fucking insane.
There's also the legality of the content overseas, which is a potentially MASSIVE legal headache that again, they're too small to be able to handle.
Even if they did think it was profitable to hire a go-between/editor to check the work, handle distribution, etc, what then? Fan translation finishes and there's no guarantee that another one of their games will be worked on and especially not by the same translator/group leaving them high and dry with little direct control.

>>8471121
It can't be helped.jpg

Girls who like eroge are Anon's biggest fantasy.

>>8471120

But, uh, Americans don't buy them, because a) anime carries a huge, huge stigma here, b) the fanbase isn't as large relative to the population, and c) Americans aren't willing to pay eighty bucks for two episodes.

Nothing to do with piracy. I bought Eva 2.22 on Bluray because I honestly loved it, even though I already had it fansubbed.

>>8471137
>First off, VN companies are tiny and I highly doubt most even have the English speaking skills on hand required for that, which means that they have no way of verifying the quality of the product.

Explains MangaGamer's "translation" of Higurashi that fans had to fix.

>>8471127
Who cares if they're selling them to the Japanese? If they're not selling them to us, we have no reasonable option but to pirate them.

No, paying 50 dollars to a shipping service is not a reasonable option.

>>8471128

Didn't Koihime only sell 500 copies or something?

この「アエル」っていう奴は最低だ。

犯罪的な行為を勧め、さらに拡大させるようなサイトを作り、エロゲー作者
と日本会社どもと渡りアエルなんて思考は幼稚すぎて呆れる。

もし俺がてめーにアエルことができたらてめーを二度とこんなふざけたことをやれないようにアナルレイプを味わせてやる。

あんたみたいな糞アマがインターネットからキエル日が来るのを待ってるぜ。


TLDR don't fucking mess with my eroge

>>8471145
Koihime has sold at least 1000 copies. In other words, it has broken even.

>>8471153

Wow, that's incredible. Too bad the game isn't particularly good.

>>8471145
Sorry, meant Shuffle.

>>8471157
Pretty sure Shuffle was one of their better-selling titles, which they put down to the existence of an anime.

>>8471143 anime carries a huge, huge stigma here
haha, you think anime fans here care? You know those shitty animes where the premise is BOOBS? Those are what pay for your stateside Eva.

America buys so much shitty ecchi shows that it funds all the other shit.

>>8471160
>Pretty sure Shuffle was one of their better-selling titles,
Yeah, that's what I was saying

>>8471102
regardless it is legit or not, is there a thread on 2ch about this shitfest? Would be interesting to see the eleven reactions to this.

>>8471161

This is WHY anime carries the stigma and why bigger-name titles don't sell as well, though.

The average American thinks that anime fans are pedophiles.

>>8471152
Regardless it is legit or not, is there a thread on 2ch about this shitfest? Would be interesting to see the eleven reactions to this.

>>8471174
>The average American thinks that anime fans are pedophiles
You can't be a true anime fan if you aren't a lolicon. Whether a person is aware of it or not at first, this will remain a fact.

maybe if everyone posts cocks,Aaeru would show her boobs?

>>8471174
You forget that the average Japanese thinks anime fans are pedos too.

>>8471152

mad jap

It's funny, because this site would never have been noticed by anybody if you autists weren't making so much drama over it.

>>8471183

Not... really. Most of K-On's fanbase is female, for instance.

Some otaku media (the Haruhi novels, K-On, Madoka) manage to reach the mainstream populace... that hasn't happened to anime in the US since Pokemon.

>>8471192

I think Moogy was raging about it on IRC.

>>8471192

We should recognize these fuwa/aaeru threads as VIRAL VIRAL VIRAL VIRAL VIRAL from now then.

It might be too late though.

>>8471195

Not true bro, there was an anime shop selling Madoka and Homu figmas (at $60), and some white, teenage girls were buying them.

Pic not related, there are real fans in North America who recognize good anime

>>8471202

It's perfectly okay for girls to like anime.

Men, on the other hand...

>>8471202
That feel when you're 28 and having play battles between your h0mu figma and Robocop figma.

Homu won somehow though.

>>8471212
Men aren't allowed to do anything in modern society.

I thought aaeru was just hilarious, but it seems he's actually just a nutcase.

i applaud him for being more mentally unstable than I but geeeeeez.

>>8471241
It probably wasn't even the actual person

>>8471241
>he
>him

Aaeru is insane. 10/10 Aaeru. Good show. Please come back when you have another original idea to entertain us with.

>>8471233
>h0mu
Why do you keep doing that?

>>8471233

I'm fine with just posing my figma and looking at them.

>>8471261
No reason really.

Before I thought the mod put a filter on "homu" so I started using the 0 to get around it. The habit just stuck I guess.

Hey guys, what's going on this thread?

>>8471300

>!A7mqioOQ9k
>0 results found

>>8471310
Implying the glorious Peter Payne would visit your peasant board without a good reason.

>http://www.ggkthx.org/2012/01/24/theres-retarded-vn-fags-and-then-theres-this/
Wow, even gg are making fun of Aaeru. This is a whole new level of pathetic.

>>8471324

>now playing SWOTR

[gg] confirmed for shit

>>8471324
I've never heard of them until your post.

>>8471342

They're a high profile sub group with average tier quality.

Personally, I hope Aaeru pushes on. The sooner Japanese companies panic and the fan translation scene dies, the sooner the plebeians can endlessly argue over KS or whatever the hell it is they do and I can enjoy my Japanese VNs without fearing them becoming popular with people who don't know shit about the source material.

>>8471356
Bawwwwwwwww stop liking what I like.

>>8471356

I read your post as

>my enjoyment of VN is correlated to how hipster it is

It's a dimension beyond the /v/ /a/ stupidity that is "stop liking what I don't like."

>>8471363
That's not what it says, though.

>>8471236
Exactly. I appreciate the work of female seiyuus, artists and writers, but I will not shed a tear for their deaths when the rebellion of MANkind arrives.

>>8471358
That isn't what I said at all.

>>8471389
Maybe he was just saying it? I mean, you implied you liked a few things in your post. Perhaps he really was upset about that.

I WAS JUST GOING TO IGNORE THIS BUT NOW THAT YOU KEEP POSTING HERE EVEN THO YOU HATE 4CHAN.

If you get a group to translate(if you do) I'm going to sent some emails.
wills spam the nips til your get a C&D
they will eventually hate you.

>>8471324

gg is the only major fansub group that stops subbing things when they're simulcasted, though.

ie koda is a huge faggot.

>>8471324
Urgh. I hate fansub groups who are all 4chan-y and memey.

Though I guess I'm a hypocrite because I really liked Studio ADTRW, jinmen, etc.

It can't be helped.

>>8470979
>>8470979
DO IT

bump for cliffs

>Fuwanovel morally-speaking is Plain Rock Solid.
>We will never release licensed titles. Fuwanovel exist only to serve the industry. We serve the likes of J-List, Mangagamer, XSeed, and Aksys Games.
>They are our champions!
>(EDIT: except for those who prey on the efforts of fan translation to purchase cheap labour and then cash them in for self-gain)
>Jast, Mangagamer

>>8471617
Don't take this the wrong way, but Its posts like this that remind me that ADTRW and 4chan still have a huge overlap.

...not that I mind, I like both of them for their unique qualities.

>>8471300

>>8472263
I don't know what this comic is saying to me, but I know it's 100% accurate.

I'm seriously expecting Aaeru to come out and shout 'Trolololol!' at any second now.

The alternative is so utterly retarded, it's not even worth thinking about.

>>8472286
She'll just pretend she's dying so she can quit the project. Again.

Worked for AoC and eksopl.

This is why I, personally, am against using an online identity. Even if your real name isn't attached to it, at some point you're going to make all these stupid mistakes and write them down for everyone to see and save and remember. Eventually you're going to have to just give up and get a new handle, wasting years of e-penis development, or you're just going to have to stick with it and have people judge you for it for the rest of your internet--and possibly real world--career.

>>8472304
If Moggy-dono can live with it, I'm sure others can too.

>>8472309
Oh shit, I fucked up already.
Moogy-dono*

>>8472309
> Insemination
Oh god.

Are we rounding up the worst people in the VN community ITT as some sort of Final Solution or something? Because I sure hope so.

http://forums.fuwanovel.com/index.php?/topic/28-how-will-fuwanovel-get-its-translations/

>Shitty forum
>Shitty website concept
>Great topic starter
>Stupid admin answer

I can't really think a better way of this fuwafuwa or shit...

>>8472337
It's okay, Anon-kun. If you don't want to suck my cock, someone else will.

>>8472379
The site is pretty and shiny. What more could you possibly want?

>>8472379
If there's one good thing to come out of all this, it's that I now respect Yirba and his opinions. I believe he posted ITT (or in the last one) too.

What the hell is a Yirba?

>>8472390
Really? Yirba seems way too militantly anti-piracy for my tastes. Some of the stuff he's saying is reasonable, but it feels like he's saying it for the wrong reasons.

>>8472387
>pretty and shiny
Is this all just NNL trying to troll us again? It's been so long.

>>8472394
Yeah, I don't agree with everything he says. My views on "piracy" are pretty much the opposite of his (I even hate the word because it's loaded and stupid).
I just think he's offering the sort of critical analysis a person like Aaeru really needs to read. Plus even though he's a newcomer to the translation scene who hasn't really done anything yet, it's kind of nice to have someone currently working on a project to call her out on her bullshit.

>>8472402
Oh god. I'd clap my hands and giggle like a schoolgirl if that turned out to be true. I miss their antics terribly.

>>8472402
> NNL
Now there's a team who did the official English translation thing (sort of) right.

[17:23:33] Aaeru_ has changed topic to "Welcome to Fuwanovel.com - Where Idealism clashes with Pragmatism"
[17:25:29] <waffo> Aaeru_
[17:25:32] <waffo> what do i need to do
[17:26:24] <~Aaeru_> ?
[17:26:33] <~Aaeru_> you want to help out?
[17:31:29] <waffo> yep
[17:31:31] <waffo> takin' down JAST
[17:31:34] <waffo> sign me up
[17:31:39] <waffo> it only has 2 employees anyway
[17:31:41] <waffo> i think they'll live
[17:48:11] <~Aaeru_> lol i dont want to take down JAST
[17:48:16] <~Aaeru_> i like what they do
[17:48:27] <~Aaeru_> except for discouraging fan translation

>>8472431
Didn't they just do exactly what fuwanovel claims to be trying to do? Blackmailing the Japanese companies into localizing by telling them we'll just pirate their shit if they don't, I mean.

>>8472442
Yeah, but they basically did it to be dicks and getting a license deal out of it was a side effect of EXPERT TROLLING.

This is what translators should do. Just translate and release without giving a shit. Even if you get a C&D notice. Don't attach your real name to the project. Japanese developers aren't going to do shit, and neither is Peter Payne for that matter.
Worst case scenario: You release a translation but have to be quiet about it.
Best case scenario: Exactly what Aaeru thinks she'll accomplish.

>>8472438
>[17:48:27] <~Aaeru_> except for discouraging fan translation
Are they really doing this though? Isn't it mostly that they would like fan translators to not touch what they themselves plan to work on?
I mean, fan translation groups are like that too, though they might perhaps not plan as far ahead.

>>8472480
Didn't they say at one point that they would prefer fan translators don't touch anything at all?

http://wiki.fuwanovel.com/index.php/Ethics_for_Visual_Novel_Fan_Translation

>>8472458
I've always wondered, how the hell do fan translators get sued if they only released news on tlwiki, and distribute via torrent? Even if they somehow put their name on it, do they really think the Japanese companies make a civil suit in a foreign court?

>>8472613
They don't. It has never happened. At least not for VNs.
They get cease and desist notices under the terms of the DMCA, then they pussy out because of the big, scary words. To my knowledge only NNL pushed on, and they got a license deal out of it.

Though it's not like TLWiki or even the various IRC channels are particularly underground. If you can find out about them with a two second Google search, so can angry Japanese businessmen or Peter Payne.

>>8472633
Wasn't the last batch of C&D's mostly because one guy emailed a bunch of companies persistently, and then I imagine they talked among themselves from there? I don't think they really keep up on "the scene" or anything like that, especially considering most of them can't read English for shit.

>>8472727
teehee

>>8472748
I don't think it was anyone from here. At the time I remember hearing it was some dude from 2ch or someplace similar that apparently was all up in arms about the filthy gaijins playing their eroge.

>>8472480
>>8472501
http://pastebin.com/g1awutkp
[18:25] <MakotoJAST> Released fan translations do not make companies want to sell their games.
[18:26] <MakotoJAST> Because they know that even less people will be inclined to buy them.,
[18:26] <MakotoJAST> Those games.
[18:26] <Aaeru_> wait i want to spin it the other way,
[18:27] <Aaeru_> so fan translation should slowly rot out, decay and retreat into nothing at the convenience of the industry
[18:27] <Aaeru_> when they are asked to
[18:27] <Aaeru_> well that's obviusly impossible
[18:27] <Aaeru_> to ask for us to stay the way we are, dont make a noise...
[18:27] <Aaeru_> well that's the opposite of what fan translation is all about. we make games that dont have a chance of making it into our language, make it into our language.
[18:27] <Aaeru_> cause we CAN"T play these games.
[18:27] <Aaeru_> but now i go the other way, i want to EXPAND fan translation
[18:28] <MakotoJAST> All I'm saying is that if what you're trying to do is convince more Japanese companies to license games, that is not the effect you will have.

I always knew Aaeru was a fucktard.

Aaeru is the hero the eroge industry needs

>>8473148
Sure you did, you retarded hipster.

>>8473157
Cudder is the translator he need.

>>8472501

Of course they don't actually want this. Then they couldn't swoop in with their imaginary money and seduce the translators into joining their guild of evil.

Why anyone would support this business model I have no idea. It needs to stop.

>>8473598
>imaginary money
This isn't Mangagamer we're talking about here.

rude

>>8475395
I doubt that's /jp/. /jp/ is pro-piracy so we wouldn't hate on that site to begin with.

>>8475407

>>8475407
/jp/'s just anti.

Fan translation drama is my favourite drama.
In any case, the forums are nice.

>>8475414
That's gold right there.
I wouldn't be able to put it any better way.

>>8475431
go away. translate something if you want to join

>>8475454
If I want to join what?

>>8474377

JAST has not paid Blick Winkel yet and I doubt the translators for Demonbane were paid until that was released either.

I feel so sorry for the guy translating Sumaga.

>>8475447
I'm actually a buyfag and I still don't hate fuwanovel as much as the rest of /jp/ does...

>>8475593
Did you expect them to be salaried or something?

So I emailed Richard Stallman and asked for his views on this whole matter. I kind of regret mentioning DRM once in my email.

>>8476147

OH BOY HERE WE GO. QUICK, GET AAERU ON IRC AND SHOW HIM/HER THIS.

>>8476147

What was your original email

>>8476147

inb4 Aaeru suddenly starts talking about DRM in the Fuwa "philosophy" and as a justification for what she's doing.

>>8476147
> One might argue that an amateur English translation is fair use if the publisher ignores the English market.
Does anyone here know if this is true? Fair use is a very gray area, but can this sort of thing pass as fair use? It would prevent C&Ds. Though I guess those are generally issued in cases where there _is_ an English publisher...
> Perhaps the publishers should invite non-Japanese fans to work together on contributing translations.
Obviously they haven't and I know people have asked THEM, but why hasn't it worked? I mean it worked out for NNL because they were persistent and such. Aaeru's argument seems to be that publishers would expand into the Western market if they knew they'd make money. So why don't we just TELL them that? Fire off some emails to Nitroplus or whatever. Tell them you'd gladly purchase their games and so would thousands of other people. They wouldn't even have to do any of the work--just greenlight a few translation projects and decide how to share sales. Easy money for them, and we didn't have to do any of this LOOK AT US JAPAN WE'RE STEALING YOUR GAMES HAHAHA bullshit.

>>8476168
"Fuwanovel: Sharing Freedom As A Statement Against Handcuffing And Unethical Behavior"

>>8476176

>One might argue

He's probably talking about the moral perspective, and not in a legal capacity.

>Tell them you'd gladly purchase their games and so would thousands of other people.

We went over this so many times.

1. VN companies are very small, and they don't have the manpower to hire translators/editors to localize their products, nevermind hiring a translation agency.

2. You'd need a team of lawyers to sell pornography overseas, which is why they just sell licenses to foreign companies and let them do the localization instead.

3. They're probably quite comfortable working their little niche without having to expand to unknown territories.

>>8476191
"Fair use" is a legal term.

>>8476157

>>8476208

Amendments are also legal terms, but we use them in a philosophical capacity.

>>8476208

>One might argue that amateur English translations are fair use if the publisher ignores the English market.

That doesn't sound like a legal argument to me.

>>8476213
Yeah but it's a specific thing in law. You wouldn't use the phrase "fair use" in every day speech or idiomatically. Keep in mind Richard Stallman is well-versed in this stuff because he's a crazy nutjob who wants to fight for your freedom.

It's rather hilarious that Aaeru's entire argument is dependent on ignoring several crucial facts about VNs and the community.

1) Making more people read obscure japanese titles. Sorry, but America barely reads things in their own language, much less translated ones. VNs are just too distant from mainstream culture to be accessible to the average consumer. I'm reasonably certain all/most of us jumped over to VNs from either anime or manga, which is an already inherently obscure/socially less acceptable hobby.

2) Do we really want more retards who can't figure out how computers work in the community? The comiket surge is bad enough as it is.

>>8476223
That's why I asked. Perhaps something can fall under fair use if the copyright holder isn't active in a different jurisdiction or some such, I don't know.

>>8476232
That makes you a negative elitist minority with a loud vice

>>8476204
Stallman is such a bro man, that's a well written email and I think he gave a good response.

I remember the time /prog/ tried to email The Sussman, and he got freaked out.

>>8476232
But anime and manga are huge in the West.
Go outside and go walk to Hot Topic or a bookstore or something. Teenagers lap that shit up.

>>8476249
> I remember the time /prog/ tried to email The Sussman, and he got freaked out.
Unscientific and ultimately destructive.

>>8476241
I don't think fair use, in the legal sense, has anything to do with translations, or anything like that. It's more to do with just copying parts of another work, for criticisms, citation, etc is it not?

I can't believe you faggots are still talking about this bullshit.

>>8476249
>>8476261
oh wow.

>>8476253
anime and manga don't have porn and are easy to consume unlike your average vn that takes 30 hours
all ages titles worth peoplee's money can be counted on both hands

>>8476273

It's easy to take out H scenes. When I first played FSN, I almost died from boredom and blueballs.

>>8476147
You seriously bothered to ask Stallman something? Why would you do that?

>>8476273
Most popular eroge have all ages releases friend.

>>8476314

Because Stallman is the Batman of the Internet.

>>8476320
You're a fucking idiot and RMS is a lunatic.

>>8476320
Batman gets stuff done though.

>>8476176
>They wouldn't even have to do any of the work--just greenlight a few translation projects and decide how to share sales. Easy money for them, and we didn't have to do any of this LOOK AT US JAPAN WE'RE STEALING YOUR GAMES HAHAHA bullshit.
Why don't you just go ahead and say you don't know how companies work instead of making such a stupid plan?

>>8476325
>>8476326

DRM sympathizers detected. Have fun with your electronic handcuffs.

>>8476334
Electronic handcuffs are the things me and my waifu use our digital bedroom.

>>8476314
All he does is email.
Like, literally, that's his "job" now. He lives at MIT and gets paid to live there, but he doesn't do anything except email. If he needs something else like some research or whatever, he gets students to do it because he's too busy reading and writing mail. Sometimes for a change in scenery he travels the world with his MIT Jew gold, then he sits in exotic locations on his Lemote laptop and reads some more email.
Every now and then he gives the same speech over and over, but he doesn't like to do it too often because then all the email piles up. Even in social circumstances he whips out his laptop and reads mail. Like literally, he sends a huge email outlining his autistic tendencies to people when they request a speech, and one of them is
> Please don't be surprised if I pull out my computer at dinner and
> begin handling some of my email. I have difficulty hearing when there
> is noise; at dinner, when people are speaking to each other, I usually
> cannot hear their words. Rather than feel bored, or impose on
> everyone by asking them to speak slowly at me, I do some work.

> Please don't try to pressure me to "relax" instead, and fall behind on
> my work. Surely you do not really want me to have to work double the
> next day to catch up (assuming I even COULD catch up). Please do not
> interfere as I do what I need to do.

I actually think if internet losers didn't email Richard Stallman asking him stupid questions about what food he likes or how he came up with the name "GNU", he would explode.

>>8476347

>>8476315
yeah on the psp, which is basically the console with the highest piracy rate

>>8476333
These aren't super big conglomerates. They're small teams with like 30-50 staff tops. They're more akin to indie game "studios" in the West. I could organize a distribution deal with an indie game developer over email no problem. Lots of people do.

>>8476334
But they protect and manage my digital RIGHTS.
Why do you hate your rights?
Are you some sort of un-American faggot who hates FREEDOM?

>>8476381
>small teams with like 30-50 staff tops
try 10-20, with people taking on multiple roles

>>8476381
>in the West
Okay.

Since you seem so sure of yourself, go negotiate something for a game that isn't with a non-doujin group. If you succeed then everyone will love you. If you don't then everyone will just say "I told you so". Small Japanese companies couldn't give a shit about releasing something to an entirely different market that has core values that conflict with their own.

>>8476366
Damn, imagine if you could get some organization to pay for your life while you sat around and responded to threads on 4chan all day. I'd take that job.

>>8476396
You're just mad jelly because I run my own 10-man team where I am the president, the vice president, the lead developer, the public relations officer, the marketing director, the product tester, the gaffer, the personal assistant, the catering officer, and the tea maker.

>>8476406
I think these people might like the idea of making money with minimal effort.

>>8476400
Seriously, right?
Go found some sort of movement or whatever at some university. Make it big and famous and then the university will feel some sort of obligation to you or something.

>>8476415

I think these people might like the idea of just ignoring things that could end up being huge legal headaches.

>>8476415
Except it does take effort. Emailing back and forth and discussing the terms of a translation deal is effort. Their workers could spend that time doing something different, something that would probably generate more sales than the few copies that might be sold if some no-name 4channer translated their game and released it to the non-existent Western market.

>>8476419
I think they would prefer the idea of having someone else do work with a product they've already made in order to earn extra money with little effort.
Seriously, selling a game for download is not difficult. Even if it contains porn. Christine Love did it.

>>8476366
Richard Tohsaka

>>8476415
They have to check the translation.
That's not minimal effort at all.
They aren't going to trust that some random fan translator was faithful to their script.

>>8476415
>minimal effort
To enter a foreign market is a legal mess of all kinds of things. Things that has to follow all kinds of laws and regulations else face the consequences.

So it all comes down to WHY DON'T PUBLISHERS JUST DO INTERNET DISTRO?

Because physical media sells. It's not fair to sell electronic copies at a cheaper price when there are hundreds of thousands of otaku are spending $80/volume of anime on BD.

>>8476441
Tell that to books, jerk.

>>8476474

Books/eBooks are different.

>>8476441
If I'm not mistaken, at least a quarter of the price for physical copies is to pay retailers, the companies wouldn't really lose profit with digital distribution for a smaller price. In fact they might even profit more.

That's why everyone is moving to digital distribution nowadays, from the bigass companies like EA to the smaller (especially the smaller) like Paradox Interactive.

Japan is just a lot backwards when it comes to distribution.

>>8476515

>Japan is just a lot backwards when it comes to distribution.

That's the way anime producers make a profit. By selling overpriced BDs and other merchandise.

If every anime otaku just watched broadcast anime and didn't buy the BDs/merchandise, nobody would make anime anymore.

>>8476204
The image won't load, god damnit.

>>8476515

>the companies wouldn't really lose profit with digital distribution for a smaller price

It'd be great if anime producers did internet distro. I'd buy the subscriptions, and fan translators can continue releasing .ass files.

>>8476533
You could pay for crunchyroll/funimation and watch fansubs, it's pretty much the same shit.

>>8476542

Isn't CR like... hard subbed? I don't need subs, I'm just talking from the Western market POV.

>>8476545
Oh, I understand what you mean now. Yeah, would be good.

>>8476426
Haeleth quit the translation scene when he learned that sometimes not even free doujin producers appreciate free translations of their free games.

>>8476657
Yea, you have to ask before you even start for some of them to even consider giving you permission.

Probably why most don't ask and just hope they don't get C&D'd.

>>8476545
You can actually right click and turn off subs on CR. It's blocked in Japan though.