/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Try Google's IME, unless it's built on top of the Microsoft IME.

>Help a bro out.

You are no brother of ours, heretic.

>>7974646
>I don't want to talk or be able to write I just want to read it

Soooo, you're only interested in reading but not really comprehending what you read?
がんばって！

"Stop being a fucking moron" would be the first step.

>>7974677

I'm not saying I won't learn the grammar eventually, but I'm more interested about learning vocabulary at the moment.

>>7974706
You are really approaching it from the wrong end.
Bah, suit yourself.

I look up new kanji, if I can't copy them for some reason, by just remembering what they look like. You remember their elements go to WWWJDIC and there's some option there so select elements after which it will show you the kanji with that combination. But yeah you're doing it completely wrong. I advice you to start with RtK or kanjidamage. Also I have no idea how you expect to read anything by just learning words. Your run of the mill eroge will already require you to know everything up to the advanced section of Tae Kim's grammar guide.

I can usually recognize them from other words, in which case input the other word in an IME to get the kanji I want. Otherwise I do a radical search in my electronic dictionary program.

By the way, RtK is a placebo and will waste your time.

> inb4 remembering the kanji
............
get remembering the kanji

>>7974747
Kanjidamage is way more efficient

learning Japanese isn't worth it

spoilers: Everything that comes out of Japan that's worth having any part of gets translated within two years of its creation, either by a company or by fans.

>>7974750
Just like all the semi-obscure games out there /jp/ loves right?

>>7974750
Translations are not an ideal choice however as translators - more often than not - imprint their own style on the final product.
Even though lots of books get translated to my own native language I prefer to read them in original (if I can understand them) because there can be too much difference between the two.

>>7974750
lold irl

wwwjdic multi-radical lookup

no need to thank me

>>7974769

I hate people who complain about this. I mean, godspeed if you're actually willing to learn Japanese to circumvent this, but it's pretty much impossible to translate Japanese without ad-libbing certain parts in order to get fluent dialogue. There's too much ambiguity and too many idioms that don't translate and leave themselves open to interpretation. It's bothersome to see someone go to the trouble to translate something and then there's always someone in the back of the crowd who wants a handmade Babelfish jargon "translation" instead.

>>7974812

Dear god, that looks like someone's high school Visual Basic compsci project.

Im also beginning to learn japanese, but Im taking a different approach for now. Im first memorizing every hiragana and katakana, practicing how to read and write them, then I plan to start learning words out of hiragana/katakana, then after that moving to kanji. Is this a good idea or should I start directly learning words in kanji after I know all the kana?

>>7974831
gg

>>7974646
The best way to search for kanji in my experience is the pad that comes built with microsoft IME. Google IME has it built in now too, but last I tried it, it was awful and couldn't pick up hardly anything at all (I had trouble getting it to recognize 人 for example). The microsoft one is great, though.

Also going to agree with everyone in this thread who says you are crazy, because language is so much more than just vocab. If we could translate everything effectively just by looking up words, google translate would be perfect.

>>7974839
Skip learning words in the kanas, learn words through the kanjis. I'm doing the same as you but I'm not practicing the writing because I'm a lazy ass, so I'm still shit at the kanas after nearly a year. I think after you master the kanas you're supposed to do the Tae Kim grammar guide along with beginning the kanji process.

>>7974849
Oh, just read the part that says windows 64 bit doesn't have it for some reason. Why not just pirate w7? I know that has it.

Japanese is such an archaic, inefficient, bullshit language. It doesn't express anything better than any other language and it in fact has a HARDER time expressing concepts than your average Romantic language.

Do you know why Japanese doesn't translate into English very well? Because it's like translating caveman speak into a real fucking language.

The thing that tickles me the most is that they decided to make a hundred thousand characters for memorizing and STILL require speakers of the language to learn WORDS that the characters make up. I mean, fuck, pick one way or the other god damn it. Either keep the alphabet simple and have speakers learn words, or have your fucking hundred thousand character alphabet that expresses every word you need.

>>7974881
네, 저도 동감

>>7974881
Some things it does are actually pretty clever. And we have to learn 26 different symbols to make up all the other symbols as well. It's not the easiest to learn, but it is efficient.

I don't get why the Japanese don't just drop the kanji

>>7974920
Becausetheyliterallydon'tusespacesanditwouldlooklikethis.

>>7974930
Icanreadthatfinefaggot.

>>7974930
Well it's not like the space is a nonexistent thing; it doesn't need to be created it, it's already been created, just start fucking using spaces. Is that really so hard?

>>7974920

Patriotism, but more than that it works fine for them. Japan doesn't have a literacy problem. When Vietnam and Korea embarked on writing system reforms to rid themselves of Chinese characters, not much of the ordinary populace could read to begin with. It's a solution looking for a problem. You may as well ask why we don't revert English back to Anglo-Saxon runes or switch to Shavian/Deseret/Unifon characters.

>>7974937
But [it's][much][easier]to[read]like[this].

Especially if you ever get out of reading at a kindergarten level.

>>7974939
You forget they write top to bottom too.

French > Japanese

>>7974970
They've learned left to right recently, yeah? That's progress! Soon when we get them to define their words concretely and ween them off their shitty context-base they'll be like regular human beings!

>>7974920
How am I supposed to read Japanese and tell between all the homophones without kanji?

>>7974972

How are you supposed to listen to it and distinguish between the homophones without kanji?

I don't get why the Japanese don't just drop their stupid language and learn English.

They've stolen everything from America and Europe but our languages, after all.

Did you know that the UN doesn't even recognize Japanese as a major spoken language? The Japanese need to either learn Mandarin or English if they want to be respected in my eyes.

Or they can just live in their hole in the mud speaking their caveman language, that's fine too I guess. They'll just never be a respected country.

>>7974973
>ween them off their shitty context-base
That's brilliant, all we have to do is redesign the language from scratch!

Sure is a lot of "my country's better than yours" /int/ stupidity in here.

>>7974996
A labor in the name of humanity can never be too great to overcome!

Let a man dream god damnit.

>>7974983
You can't, 99% of Japanese jokes are based on this.

http://visualnovelaer.wordpress.com/2010/09/30/how-to-read-visual-novels-in-2-years-time-step-by-ste
p-guide/

really not that hard op

Is there any other language in the world where newspapers are unreadable by children?

I ain't even mad. It's always been one of my dreams to learn all the languages, and I always wanted to learn Japanese the most, even before I was a raging faggot. It's just the most interesting.

>>7975014
Polish maybe?
Faroese?

>>7974983
You are not. That's why written and spoken languages are different and in the news there are always subtitles in big letters so people don't get confused what announcer is talking about.

>>7975020

The only difference between the literary and spoken languages is the abandonment of the politeness/respect system. Homophones are usually distinguished by pitch accent and television programs having random captions and on-screen text is just a cultural thing that goes on in all Asian countries.

>>7975010
Why would I dedicate two years of my life to learning how to read moon runes when I can just learn to read French in a month and enjoy their culture instead

>>7975010
Two years is slow for that amount. That's a 6 month endeavor at best unless your brain is fucking swiss cheese

>>7975040

Because France is not Japan and you're not going to learn French in a month, either.

>>7975040
Because all the French culture worth a damn ends up in KamS videos anyway.

>>7975048
the joke's on you, I already did!

>>7975052
the joke's on you, you can't actually understand French!

>>7975039
>The only difference between the literary and spoken languages is the abandonment of the politeness/respect system.

Stopped reading there.

>>7975040
I-its not l-like you have anything else better to do! Besides, nobody likes France and their attitude towards Japanese media.

>>7975066
>nobody likes France
But Japan has a raging hardon for France.

>>7975067
Nobody likes Japan either.

>>7975070
Weeaboos do. But nobody likes weeaboos.

>>7975067
Fuck Japan, I hate Japan so much

>>7975039
That's bullshit, there's no difference in pitch between 幼生, 要請, 妖精, and 養成.

>>7975058

Good thing you did, otherwise you might feel obliged to refute something instead of pretending to know better without anything to back you.

>>7975076

I can't verify that one way or the other, but I can scarcely think of many plausible cases in which those words wouldn't be readily distinguished from context.

>>7975081
If you honestly believe that they abandon their politeness system in speech, then you aren't even worth arguing with.

did you guys know that "racecar" is the same forwards as it is backwards

Fucking weeaboos.

>>>/2ch/

>>7975090

They abandon it in literature, you silly little ragamuffin.

>>7975099
Did you know that racecar only means racecar and can't mean anything other than racecar. In all instances of some motherfucker saying or writing racecar, racecar never once has meant "Soft" "Strong" "Firm" "Rude form of Penis" "Vegetable" Racecar only means racecar and nothing else looks or sounds like racecar.

>>7975093
Yeah, but by the time I've gone through the process of elimination to decide which word best fits the context, I'll have fallen far behind in listening to the speaker.

>>7975108

This is because you are not Japanese.

>>7975104
Then he/you should have said "the addition of the politeness/respect system."

>>7975112
日本人だよ！

It can't be helped. Japanese is an underdeveloped language.

>>7975107
>>7975107
did you know that "run" can be a noun, verb and an adjective, and the depending on context it can mean "to move with haste," "to go about freely on or in without supervision," or even "an act or instance"

>>7975107
Sure it does!
Racecar:
-n. racecar
-adj. soft
-adj. strong
-adj. firm
-n. rude form of Penis
-n. Vegetable
-n. (Edo-period slang) loli prostitute in training

>>7975131
did you know that the sentence "I run while running a run." is a complete sentence AND has a legitimate meaning?

>>7975131
Languages are stupid. I'm going back to communicating via series of punches to the face like the good ol' days.

>>7975117

That isn't any less ambiguous, and the ordering of the subjects doesn't imply which that phrase would apply to. All I was communicating is that a difference existed. I'm starting to see why you're so prone to overinflating the minutiae in Japanese when you have this much trouble parsing plain English.

>>7975136
>communicating
Look at that word there, it's almost as retarded as necessary.
Why are there two S's.
Why does the C make an S sound.
Why does Y make the E sound.
English is impossible.

>>7975135
>-n. (Edo-period slang) loli prostitute in training

I'm going to use this term from now on. Thanks, /jp/!

>>7975123

Well fuck, now I'm convinced.

>>7975131
Failure to use proper punctuation, capitalization, and spelling while trying to give a grammar lesson?

Thirty days behind bars. Next.

>>7975148
So I went to the racecar show the other day...

>>7975147
>>7975147
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_before_E_except_after_C#Exceptions

there's a larger section of text dedicated to the EXCEPTIONS portion of this rule than the rule itself

>>7975155
did you know that grammar can be implied

>>7975149
よし！

I like how this thread has been hijacked by a bunch of people calling Japanese "cavemen speak" and saying the writing system is "inefficient". It all just sounds like piled of frustration and envy towards those that were actually able to motivate themselves to learn Japanese to an advanced level. Anybody that has read Japanese for a while knows exactly why Kanji are very suitable for the language and why they make reading a lot easier than if it was just all kana, or god forbid the latin alphabet.

>>7975275
I like that too.

>>7975275
Japanese tried to follow the example of Corea and create their own script. They failed.
Now they try to justify themselves appealing to 'tradition'.

>>7975275
Kanji are indeed essential for the language. The only problem with them is how some of the simplest meanings have horribly complex kanji attached to them and vice versa

>>7975296

In the end, I find it grateful that there's massive carryover from Japanese to Chinese, since it uses the traditional script.

Only a "Corean" would say something like that. Koreans in the academic field who are well versed in Hanja are respected.

>>7975325
Kanji aren't difficult because they're complex. They're difficult to recognize only when they're uncommon.

Well, Japanese is hard but English and Spanish are even harder you know.

>>7975382
why do I have to know TWO hard languages

how do I unlearn English so I can learn Japanese instead?

Why is everybody so mad?

It takes a lot of dedication to read and write Japanese if you're a white person who grew up in the West. The same goes with any non-Western language.

Everybody knows that the significance of learning Japanese is diminishing, and that it's more beneficial to learn either Korean or Mandarin in the long run. Nobody is arguing this point, since most of us here treat /jp/ culture as a hobby, not a career subject.


Also nobody gives a shit about the history of Japanese, because everybody knows that Shinto is an ancient shamanistic religion that would be considered "cavemen superstition" in the West.

>>7975382

If don't know English, it's a hard language.

However Spanish is an easier language to learn, as is any Romantic language, to non-English speakers.

>>7975382
Oddly enough, everyone I know says Spanish is easier, but I struggle a lot more with it than with Japanese, and I've been taking Spanish classes for five years whereas my Japanese is all self-study.

>>7975406
but Spanish is English with mirrored grammar and an extra two letters in the alphabet

>>7975406

You're probably

A) Extremely shit at Japanese and you have no place self-studying it

or

B) You're an Asian who learned English as a second language

>>7975382
No they're not. You can't objectively say how difficult a language is, that completely depends on what your native language is and how related they are. All you can say is how difficult it is to learn language X if you speak language Y.

ok am a big fan of anime but most of it is in japaneses so i want to know how can i learn there japanese is there a program that can help me a simple way to learn?please help me i want to learn Japanese.

>>7975461

I'm holed up in Hamilton ON until the spring term starts at university.

If you help me pay for my NEET expenses you can deshi-iri for learning Japanese.

>>7975455
>>7975455
Maybe you're right, but why japanese people speak English so shitty? It's not like i speak japanese correctly but at least i have a good pronunciation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9OVOAfKqXA

>>7975498
We have a lot more sounds in our language than they do in theirs. Most of the sounds that they make are already in our language.

>>7975498

Japanese people speak shitty English because there aren't many good tutors who teach English in an American accent.

Have you ever listened to Singaporean English?

>>7975479
ギブミープリーズ

>>7975498
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BrpZe8PUBI

because they're cave-dwelling monkeys that can't into a real language

Can we create a new letter in the English language that stands for a rolled R?

I really want to be able to roll my Rs in words on the internet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI3TmfLh6Lk

>>7975514
ザーナイムイズインザーピークチャ

>>7975442
>A) Extremely shit at Japanese and you have no place self-studying it
Given that I've been reading eroge in Japanese for several years now, I'd say I'm fairly good at it.
>B) You're an Asian who learned English as a second language
Nope. I'm plain white bread.

Spanish is just fucking stupid. They make up lots of dumb grammar rules for no fucking reason at all.

>>7975553

>Given that I've been reading eroge in Japanese for several years now, I'd say I'm fairly good at it.

Stopped right there.

You got me good this time.

8/10, you could have carried it out a little longer.

>>7975525
But Koreans can speak English.
>>7975526
>Have you ever listened to Singaporean English?
Do you have any video?

>>7975563

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIW8WfqoJUA

It's a joke video, but many people in Singapore sounds like the woman on the other line.

>>7975569
I'm confused now.

>>7975585
Why i'm laughing at this?

>>7975614

He was implying that what you said was akin to gauging one's Spanish skills by his or her ability to read a restaurant menu at a Mexican restaurant.

>>7975614
I think he's referring to the fact that almost any learner of Japanese can read 「あああぁぁぁ、お兄ちゃんのちんちん、すげー。」

text taken from japanese ocr and played in textaloud (with japanese speech voice selected). to hear, save pic, rename to mp3, play in winamp.

>>7975633
>>7975642
Excuse me, I'm reading high quality Japanese literature, thank you very much.

>>7975706

You were already outed >>7975569

No need to keep dragging it on now.

when he said chinkrunes i almost died

>>7974941
the problem is people who didn't go through the Japanese school system being able to read it-- if it was similar or more supplementary I'd get it but, well...

>>7974972
well how do they tell them apart in speech?

>>7975999
They don't, they have to stop to sign the kanji to each other every few sentences.

>>7975706
what eroge is this?

You too.

>>7975498

Because it's a completely different language from ours. Just because they have some of the same sounds doesn't mean it's going to be easy for Japanese people to speak proper english. Your pronunciation is probably not as good as you think it is.

>>7975999

Through context. How do you tell two, to and too apart? Fucking moron. Not the guy you're replying to by the way.

>>7974808
Eh, I knew I shouldn't have gone to sleep.
I think you might have misunderstood me. I'm not whining or bitching about it. I know it is hard to do a decent translation and I really appreciate the effort put into it but I'm willing to commit my time to learning multiple languages in order to be able to enjoy the original texts.
Since they are a kind of hobby for me and I want to learn at least 7-8 of them I don't really think that's a sign of me being an ungrateful little asshole.
The babelfish comment was cute though, I just don't see why you would think I'd prefer a shitty mirror translation...

>>7977173
No you are the FUCKING MORON.
Don't even try and pretend it's like English. For an example, there are at least 150 kanji that are pronounced as こう. Are there 150 English words that sound the same ?

This is what happens when idiots try to borrow words from another culture but doesn't have the vocal facilities for them.

>>7977186

>This is what happens when idiots try to borrow words from another culture but doesn't have the vocal facilities for them.

Because clearly the Japanese civilization was impeded by their linguistic limitations.

It is exactly like to, two and too. It's entirely a matter of context. I think you're upset because you failed a Japanese oral exam where you couldn't differentiate between two similar sounding words, and now you're trying to blame it on the language's deficiencies.

>>7975991

That's why white people who can speak any oriental language fluently is respected in academic circles.

Learning the language itself is like saying whitto piggu get out.

>>7977279
>It is exactly like to, two and too
Let me guess, if 3 = 150 then to you a rowing boat and a cruiser are also exactly the same. Nice try, idiot. Your cute attempt at ad hom also failed miserably as I don't need to take exams just to enjoy chinese cartoons.

>>7975479
>>7975467
Jesus, why are either of these so hard to come across the illegal way?

>>7975467
I have yonde!koko, how does e.typist compare?
I guess the fact that you have both installed shows they're about equal, but any reason to get it if you already have the first?

found a crack of 読んde!!ココ in isohunt, am I supposed to download the free version from epson?

>>7977758
I wonder if there will be any seeds at all.

>>7977786
There isn't, stuck at 19.5%

found this http://www.mediafire.com/?3321qasat1pe5v4
I'll try.

>>7977796
Actually there is one online right now.
Crap upload tho.

>>7977807
Thanks, will try this as well.

>>7977807
working
>>7977849
Right. I saw a Jap at 100% going online but the mediafire one was already downloaded so I quit.

Now I'll try to find e.typist v13.0

>>7977860
The mediafire one gave me a virus warning, and I never get virus warning.

>>7977876
Probably the crack thing

>>7977876
Cracks often trigger false alarms tho.

>>7977889
>>7977883
I'm not new to the internet, but even the setup was infected. I can't be arsed to run it through jotti and I'm not that in need of a software of this device.

>>7977860
Double clicking on Setup.exe and it gives me a page not found error and won't install.

I have bitdefender, and it deleted the patch/crack.
Had no problem installing with the setup though, and the program is working.

>>7977895
applocale/japanese
I had the same problem without it

>>7977917
Already have that.

>>7977919
Weird, I had the same thing

I use my own utility that allows to search by components(in either part of kanji), stroke counts(in either part of kanji), composition type, anything written in kanjidic(e.g. SKIP) or edict(meaning) at the same time. I don't use wwwjdic or other lookups anymore. Unlike wwwjdic it allows to specify the same radical twice(so 木木木 will show nothing but 森)

Has anybody found e.typist 13 yet?

>>7977576
>>7977186
so then *how do they do it*?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZEA54VJEdE

No one posted it yet?

>>7975019
I'm pretty sure I was able to read newspapers in polish when I was twelve.

I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this part of OP's picture.
その前後に於いて必ず発生するかすかな、ずれ。
Would someone be kind enough to shed some light on it? The whole part after 発生する especially confuses me.

>>7975498

Why can't foreigners pronounce katakana-ized English words?

>>7979141
>かすかな
adjective in -na
>ずれ
noun

So how do you remember how to say all the kanji?

Have you guys found a good way to memorize all those words written with 2x2 kana? I'm sure there's a proper term for them, but no idea how they are called.
Example:
きらきら
ぺらぺら
びしょびしょ
すやすや
じろじろ
etc. I have about a hundred of these in my deck of 3000 words, and they are by far the hardest to remember. I have no problems with weird or complex kanji, since I can usually find something to remember them by, but some of these are so damn similar, that I just can't seem to be able to differentiate them.

>>7979203

by not being lazy

shameless bump.

>>7979205
those fall under 擬音語　or 擬態語 and no, other than memorizing them and getting familiar with them. I still don't use them much.

>>7979205
onomatopoeia?

read VNs and learn them from the context, it's easier to remember that way. remembering words in isolation doesn't have that advantage

>>7979205
anki

>>7980007
Given that he said "deck" I think that's what he's using.

There's no easy way to learn them but most of them kinda start to make sense after a while, I think. Some are kind of out there and arbitrary, but some really seem to fit. Maybe I'm crazy.

>>7979805
I wish people would actually take this advice and get themselves fucked. Natural selection at work, we can always use fewer idiots.