/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>7801992
Ask on TLwiki irc or gemot.

>>7801998
Nevermind then I guess. I don't really feel like getting IRC and all that.

Ok now that would be incredibly awesome.

>>7802018
Can't you simply get Pidgin or something for free?
but oh well, I suppose some don't feel like IRC is worth the bother.
You could always PM Aroduc or something, he might know something, possibly.

No matter the case, Milky Holmes is utterly outstanding.

>>7802118
I just don't really feel comfortable in chat rooms. I'm kind of shy to start talking in real time and stuff.

Try REtrans.
http://archive.easymodo.net/jp/thread/7743907#p7745195
See if they'll help.

You might be SoL if you want someone to hack a PSP game.

>>7802148
Well there is a project for the idolm@ster PSP game and Ore no Imouto PSP game so it's not like it's impossible.

>>7802118
Well I sent a PM to that Aroduc fellow, though I'm not sure he will be able to help. I also uploaded the iso to Megaupload if anyone wants it http://www.megaupload.com/?d=JGLX2B5Y

>>7802196
Thanks.

I'd be looking forward to this very much if you manage to start your project.

Love.

I'm fairly sure if Aroduc had a way to work on it, he'd do it himself considering that he's a huge fan of the series and is already doing a series that is more or less the same thing in a different genre.

>>7803542
Well, I did ask him in the PM if he knew how or if he knew anybody else and he said no.

>>7801992
I hope you can manage to get the scripts, I for one would be really appreciative if you can get this translated.

>>7802138
We're currently busy, but please contact us with your detailed requirements. You will be queued and we will return an estimate when we have time.

----------
Cudder !MhMRSATORI
President and CEO
REchan IHG

>>7804211
Go away.

>>7804223
Go away.

So, what do you do in the game? Drink tea and do cute things?

Interesting, I can try and track it down and see what I can do.

>>7804234
There are 5 'chapters' or whatever you call them. You collect clues and stop the bad guys.

>>7802018
You would never get a tl project done with that kind of attitude.

Alright, I think I found it, dling now. I might not be able to get back to this thread before it 404's though since I am going out later.

>>7804261
I did upload it to megaupload and put the link in this thread by the way... and I doubt this thread will 404, it is /jp/ afterall.

Thanks though.

>>7804261
/jp/ moves slower than a turtle and part of it is thanks to trolls saging everytime they post something (nobody really cares to post here anymore). Head over to /v/. the community there might not be much but it's better than /jp/ for this kind of shit

>>7804267
Must have missed it mate, lol.

>>7804211
why the fuck are you alway posting in 1st person plural?

Note that we do not have a PSP in the interop lab but emulation IS an available option.

>>7804282
Not always; only when I am speaking on behalf of REchan IHG or its subsidiaries.

>>7804303
The sad part is that you really do seem to believe that ReChan is a business and has subsidiaries.

Time to lunch and listen to nightcore while I try to get you a quick pre-estimate on this.

>>7804384
We are. We offer software and hardware analysis solutions as OEM. Of course, we have a different name IRL.

>>7804782
>OEM
Except for the E and M parts.

>>7804849
Tohoho

Lunch is over.

Pre-estimate: 100+ (wo)man-hours for text extraction alone.

bump for great justice

>Milky Holmes game
>good
It's shit. Milky Holmes is literally the only JC Staff adaptation that's better than the source material.

>>7807536
You know, your trolling would go farther if you actually knew what you were talking about. The Milky Holmes anime is not an adaptation of the game.

>>7807577
Different Anon here, but I guess that's exactly why the anime is better. According to the summaries of the game I saw on /a/ back when MH was airing, it seems pretty bad.

>>7807595
Ok, either way, you are saying the anime is better when you've never played the game. Not to mention both share some of the same people. ie the animation in the game is done by JC Staff, and the person in charge of the game was also in charge of the anime. The anime takes place after the game, you could even say the game is kind of like a 1st season of the show. So please stop talking out of your butt.

I played the game. It was short, more "serious" than the anime and less jokes/parodies. Overall it was quite fun and enjoyable. not great, but pretty good. the animation was of high quality too.

I know people like the anime because it's full of neta and random but for people who grew to like the characters the game is very well done.

lol Cordelia
Game : Classy lady-of-war
Anime : MAXIMUM AUTISM

>>7807687
>MAXIMUM AUTISM
It's more of LESBIAN TRAINWRECK

I'm kind of confused. There is a file in the ISO called all.apk which probably has the script, but extensive googling tells me that APK is a file type for Android phones?

>>7807687
Seriously, how can you say no to such cute faces like these.

>>7807687
Yeah, it works just like Galaxy Angel.

>>7807741
Why is Sherlock so cute...

>>7807728
That file has almost everything of interest.

It is in a proprietary format, an internal filesystem which has some similarities with ISO 9660.

Don't count on file extensions in the world of files that no one were intended to see except the developers.

>>7807687
Cordelia is the least autistic of Milky Holmes.

>Sheryl
Game : Retarded, but at least she's useful in some situation.
Anime : Super retarded, now with more useless power.

>Nero
Game : Kuudere, somewhat bitch though.
Anime : Full frontal bitch.

>Elly
Game : Your typical shy lesbian.
Anime : Slut.

>Cordelia
Game : GODDAMN BATMAN
Anime : My Cordelia Can't Be This Autistic.

bump because I want to play this ;_;

Yeah, the PSP game is indeed quite amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=Eu5MHMKvjk8

Should have bouht it when I could have.

>>7810968
I don't know what those three playsets of cards do but I'm sure if they're in your deck then your opponent's fucked.

It'd be really nice if someone translated this game.

>>7810968

>>7810976
>I don't know what those three playsets of cards do
WeissSchwarz cards.
Although inferior to Lycee if I were to voice my own opinion, the game still follows the same kind of concept. Clashing characters from all kinds of different works like that against eachother in a card game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZAYLo6Uk3M

>>7809226
Why are you making a list that compares the game to anime with your biased opinions?

>>7809190
I want to lick that upper lip of hers

>>7809226
All the fame got to them so they started using drugs.

>>7810968
Looks like the op was made by shaft. Which is a good thing for me because I like shaft but thats beside the point.

It looks like the characters are made from the same studio which makes me wonder why the decided to make the anime not so serious. I dont think the show was bad but it makes me wonder.

>>7809226
Might just be me, but I sure know that I castly prefer an adaptation doing its own thing as opposed to re-tell the same story, inferiorly.

But yeah, the original is still superior. But because the adaptation didn't do the same thing, both are still great and lots of fun, rather than one being a mashed up version of the original, rendered redundant at the same time because of it.

>>7809226
>>7811068
Might just be me, but I sure know that I vastly prefer an adaptation doing its own thing as opposed to re-tell the same story, inferiorly.

But yeah, the original is still superior. But because the adaptation didn't do the same thing, both are still great and lots of fun, rather than one being a mashed up version of the original, rendered redundant at the same time because of it.

>>7811068
That's not the OP, genius.

>>7811082
It's a sequel though, there was never a need to retell the story to begin with. Which is why the difference is so annoying, because it takes place after the game and all of a sudden all the girls have gotten completely retarded.

>>7811090
I have not played this game faggot so I would not know. I just skimmed over the video dumbshit

>>7811092
It's not a sequel. Why are you people so retarded?

>>7811090
That is actually the second OP in the game, friend.

No. It's the video that plays before the final mission.

>>7811113
Calm down.

>>7811092
I guess you have a point in that.

Though the work still can't really draw upon the same strengths in the animated medium, or even draw upon the strengths that it can indeed draw upon, in the same way as in the game.
So yeah, I don't know, but perhaps they thought that they might as well do something different considering the medium is entirely different. As opposed to try to do relatively the same thing, albeit in another medium. You can't really draw upon suspense or anything of the sort in the same way like that, not to be speaking of how there can be no interaction as opposed to the game.

>>7811124
Don't assume that everyone knows what you know shithead.

>>7811116
It is the video that plays at the opening of the final chapter, replacing the OP that played in the beginning of the chapters before it. How is that not an OP? Even searching for it on Nicovideo and elsewhere refers to it as an OP.

>>7811149
No, it's typically marked as the final chapter opening, which still does not make it the game's OP.

>>7811223
But it still makes it, an opening. That is, an OP.

>>7811223
>No, it's typically marked as the final chapter opening
So when I said in >>7811108 that it was the second OP in the game, and you called me out on it, how was I wrong exactly?

And regardless, the original poster that said "Looks like the op was made by shaft" was still not wrong, because the main OP for the game is made by shaft.

>>7810843
>>7810976
I gave a pre-estimate. If you want to proceed then your next steps I've outlined already >>7804211.

>>7811149
>>7811223
>>7811258
Specificity counts.

>>7812427
Nobody is paying you for anything Cudder, go to bed.

>>7812985
Right, cudder sex should be free.

>>7804782
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsD6LOtw_Ek

It's too bad novelnews.net forums are so dead. I was hoping I could get help there, but alas...

>>7812985
I never mentioned needing payment for anything. /jp/ regulars get a 100% discount.

Of course, if you intend on selling your translation, then we would like a cut. All negotiable.

>>7815714
We are one of the few localization technology providers that offer fully custom solutions such as what you require, as well as expertise across various software and hardware platforms. No project is too big or small for us.

>>7815092
That one is already in my playlist.

>>7816680
>technology providers

>implying extracting VN scripts requires any kind of unique technology or skill.

>>7816680
Well if you wouldn't charge anything. I would appreciate it if you could rip the script for me.

>>7817127
>implying extracting VN scripts requires any kind of unique technology or skill.
Yes indeed, its called reverse engineering and is a quite sophisticated site of computer programming.

>>7817325
For VNs and other shovelware it only takes time. No skill involved.

So why this game? why not a better psp vn that everybody really wants to read.

>>7817404
Milky Holmes is a fucking masterpiece and everyone wants to read it.

>>7817423
Pretty much this.

>>7817404
There already is your horrible ore no shitmouto "translation" project, how about you get out and don't display your shit tastes in this thread.

>>7817437
Let's not start insulting other games!

>>7817445
But Nero is a bitch!

>>7817371
>For VNs and other shovelware it only takes time. No skill involved.
Haha oh wow. Just because most VNs uses similair engines, similair archives and similair encryptions and structure, does not mean there is no skill involved.

And this is a PSP title for one thing. It is an entirely different thing to crack open, and even every other odd or so non-conventional PC VN engine can be tough to crack depending on things.

>>7817404
>a better psp vn that everybody really wants to read.
such as? I have trouble thinking of one

>>7817517
That Haroohee one.

>>7817503
Shit nigga it took me 6 hours to write an extractor for this shit.
You just can't call it reverse engineering.
The only skill involved is patience.

Just asking: Isn't the VN played totally straight and nothing at all like the anime? Because that makes it sound really lame.

>>7817547
Haven't even looked at this thing as I don't have the game myself.
And, the structure for PSP things are entirely different, so you have to work through proprietary formats often very unlike that of which is commonly used on PCs. Doesn't make it better that some developers are paranoid with their encryption, though those developers aren't exactly in the majority.

But cue point, extracting isn't the only thing that matters.
You have to be able to re-insert and re-package the whole thing without errors as well.
Extract, alter, and re-insert and properly package Amigami and say that there was no skill involved, then I will be quiet. Still things turns to shit when re-inserted in that one.

>>7817547
Haven't even looked at this thing as I don't have the game myself.
And, the structure for PSP things are entirely different, so you have to work through proprietary formats often very unlike that of which is commonly used on PCs. Doesn't make it better that some developers are paranoid with their encryption, though those developers aren't exactly in the majority.

But cue point, extracting isn't the only thing that matters.
You have to be able to re-insert and re-package the whole thing without errors as well.
Extract, alter, and re-insert and properly package Amagami and say that there was no skill involved, then I will be quiet. Still things turns to shit when re-inserted in that one.

>>7801992
You should be translating super robot wars z-2 instead of this.

>>7817563
>Haven't even looked at this thing as I don't have the game myself.

The only thing that matters is:
>ココロちゃんって言うな！

>>7817547
>The only skill involved is patience.
Can't you say the same about most trades, such as translating for instance?

>>7817602
Are you saying that you can't spot the difference between a good translation and a bad translation?

>>7817602
Learning Japanese, yes. Translating, no.

>>7817614
>Are you saying that you can't spot the difference between a good translation and a bad translation?
Are you saying that you can't tell the difference between "complete X" and "incomplete X"?

>>7817641
A translation can be good or bad.
An archive is either extracted or not.

>>7817661
One can argue that the code you wrote to extract the archive is shit. But that doesn't matter to most people, as long as it does its work.

>>7817661
>An archive is either extracted or not.
An archive can be partially extracted or faultly extracted.
The first 7 or so tools for princess maker failed to extract all of the text. And it took even more versions before it could insert said text properly again.

>>7817547
Is it possible for you to upload the script for me if you managed to extract it? I would appreciate it.

>>7817569
A game like MH would be easier for me to translate, plus it is not very long. Super Robot Wars games are very long and I'm sure I would burn myself out.

>>7818255
I guarantee you that the script for Milky Holmes is significantly longer than any SRW game made past about 1995.

>>7818255
I guarantee you that the script for Milky Holmes is significantly longer than any SRW game.

>>7818442
Considering the game is only 5 hours long, I highly doubt that.

>>7818870
If you think that there's five hours worth of reading in SRW, then you're retarded.

>>7818888
Have you ever played SRW games? They are typically 30-40~hours. Obviously that is not all text, but it's not like all 5 hours in MH are spent on text either.

>>7818894
You are aware that Milky Holmes is a visual novel and SRW are SRPGs, right? Because I'm not sure you could possibly be any stupider.

>>7819019
Yes. I've played numerous SRW games, and MH. I spent more time reading in SRW. Have you played both?

>>7819027
QED, you're retarded.

>>7819032
Excellent rebuttal!

>>7819042
Why bother trying against someone who claims that over 92% of the time spent playing an SRW game is spent reading its story?

>>7819055
>who claims that over 92% of the time spent playing an SRW
I don't ever remember saying that. I said that there was more reading in it than there was in MH, which there is.

>>7819097
Maybe you should learn how to do math before making claims based on it then.
>They are typically 30-40~hours. Obviously that is not all text, but it's not like all 5 hours in MH are spent on text either.

Even assuming your numbers are of MH's entire script of all routes, which it's obviously not. MH has about 5 minutes of QTEs and are thus negligible, the rest is all VN reading.
5/30 = .92

>>7819113
>Maybe you should learn how to do math before making claims based on it then
I didn't make any claims based on math, I said there is more than 5 hours of reading in SRW, which there is.

>entire script of all routes
What routes? There are no routes in MH.

>5/30 = .92
You literally make no sense. I'm curious as to whether you have actually played the titles in question.

>>7819132
Okay. It's clear that you're just a troll now. Go back to spamming screencaps.

>>7817547
Looks like we have a challenger. Time to make things more interesting.

>>7817563
Listen to him, knows what he's saying. It's relatively easy to get the data out, but putting everything back is where the majority of the resources are spent.

Remember NTFS drivers for Linux? Read support was available many years ago but it took quite a while before even basic writes were implemented, and certain features like encryption are STILL not supported today in NTFS-3G.

>>7817754
>>7817669
There was a very subtle bug in ExtractData that caused corruption under a HIGHLY specific set of conditions. This was back in the days of Editorashi. Lesson learned: don't rely on 3rd-party tools (at least without careful scrutiny), even if they do seem to work most of the time.

>>length_argument
Should I also extract the text of SRW and then we can make a proper comparison?

>>7820660
>extract the text of SRW
But which one?

Up.

I swear I'll buy a PSP just to read this.

>>7821165
Whichever one you were arguing about.

>>7825025
Use emulation.

>>7825010
Can I count this as progress, or does he not want to share his discovery so that it can be properly translated?

>>7825040
>Use emulation.
lol

>>7827384
I'm emulating p3p.

>>7825010
So are you able to inject the text back into the game?

Has the script been extracted yet?

>>7827579
>>7817563

And someone tell me what this says.

>>7829427
Stop pretending to be a translator.

Nevermind, the problem went away.

Extracted text coming up in a little bit.

>>7829481
Idiot.

>>7829427
The pleasure of inserting a memory card inside.

Text extraction complete. Text size ~600KB.

http://www.mediafire.com/?gbim7dx6i92l9o7

Files are in standard CSV format, encoding is UTF-8 (NOT Shift-JIS). Do not modify the first nor second columns; they are for our internal use only. Please contact us if you have any further questions regarding these files.

Images for translation will be made available later.

Does OP have to release his future translation through rechan?

>>7830167
I guess its soemthing that can be taken cared of later.
How is the text reinsterted? If anything I would be able to check for errors and so on to ease up on quality control and editing later on.

>>7830167
Thanks, is there a tool or something to reinsert it for testing purposes?

I did a quick translation of one of the scripts, but I wish I could test it to make sure it's working and to see formatting.

Cudder is the Uwe Boll of the translation "scene".

>>7831491
If he isn't the one translating it then I don't really mind if he helps.

>>7831458
Care to upload it?
If the CEO of RETrans™ doesn't release his tools, I'll put the ones I have on TLwiki or something.

>>7831578
Sure, just give me 20 minutes or so. And to be honest, I'd rather use TLWiki than the ReTrans interface thing.

>>7831578
So that you would steal my work? No way. I'll do it myself or nothing.

>>7831578
Ok here the first script I did http://www.mediafire.com/?za3hofu717khof0
Sorry if it doesn't read too well... And I wasn't sure about all the columns and stuff so I just replaced the Japanese with English.

I want to play this~

>>7830209
REchan? No. That is the analysis technology provider behind REtrans. REtrans doesn't even have its own site. But everything else is his choice. If he wants a support site and anything else, we'll set it up.

[How fancy you want it is up to you. The FlyableTrans site is one example of what a basic one looks like. If you want one, your site will be yours to keep and do as you wish with.]

>>7831594
Your choice, but if you decide to use a competitor's services, we won't offer support for any problems you may encounter.

>>7830549
>>7830687
>>7831458
>>7831813
It's a proportional font (see >>7829915) so there is no definite limit to line lengths, but 32-36 is reasonable. Centering is automatic. I recommend you ignore any existing newlines (\n) as we can break the lines at the appropriate position, and focus only on the translation. We can handle all the technical aspects.

I'll be back in a short while with a patch containing what you translated. Note that it is not the first script that actually appears (which is mh01_010).

>>7834697
>Your choice, but if you decide to use a competitor's services, we won't offer support for any problems you may encounter.
The only problems he could encounter are related to repacking tools, which he doesn't have, so it doesn't matter.

Sorry, I've already gone severely overtime today so the patch will have to wait until tomorrow. But >>7829915 shows what we can do here already.

>>7834989
Not necessarily. There could be problems with formatting codes, etc. in the script.

>\n

>>7835420
Damn. I wonder why it was in the original text then.

>>7835432
It's not your fault, I forgot to replace the \n with actual line break characters.

Still, the scripts should have been extracted as plain text, without the special characters bullshit.

>""
awwww shit cudder mah nigga is you serious

I wonder if it's possible to reduce the font size.

>>7835456
Oh ok. Well, I have to go to work. I'll try to translate some more when I get back.

Extracted images:
>http://www.mediafire.com/?qdocf8ib4ay1zrg

>>7835456
>doesn't know what CSV is
laughinggirls.jpg

>>7835939
>2011
>using CSV
I seriously hope etc...

>>7835645
Now that's cool.

Are you guys European or something? Is that why this thread is only active at the crack of dawn?

>>7837826
Good night america, see you tomorrow!

>>7835420
>>7835456
>>7835463
This is surprising. In my post right before yours, I wrote "There could be problems with formatting codes, etc. in the script."

That sort of confusion from a translator is typical, but of all people, an analyst like you couldn't figure it out? Even the translator here handled the CSV format perfectly!

>Still, the scripts should have been extracted as plain text, without the special characters bullshit.
Think about that statement for a moment. "Plain text", a file with no structure, just a chunk of data?

How do you know where the boundaries are? Where a particular string came from?

You need some way to represent that information.
[We call this concept METADATA.]

We use CSV format because -
- it lets us associate metadata with each string, crucial for proper reassembly
- it is a simple, standard format that does not have much overhead
- all of our existing workflow uses it, so we can reuse components and expedite development
- it is readable and editable by humans with only a text editor(although we highly recommend against doing the latter)

(continued)

(continued)

The "special characters bullshit" you refer to is necessary to ensure that things like platform line ending differences don't cause any trouble. CSV record separator is the platform line terminator which can be a variety of different things, but \n is ALWAYS the newline representation of the target, whatever that may be.

>>7835952
We did have a small initiative to change to XML, but it went nowhere as the increased complexity provided no great advantages. CSV remains THE standard here, and we're certainly pushing everyone to it --- a standard, open, common infrastructure for localization is what we envision for the future.

>>7837826
Yes.

To the translator, and the aspiring analyst: Let's take this offline (see email field). I can give both of you some more information about the script format and engine's instruction set (and you might learn some things that'll increase productivity.) I think this thread has served its purpose.

This is a script file updated with >>7831813 (>>7835420 can put it in and test.)
http://www.mediafire.com/?zkhhnx5x8bfcun7

(end)

>>7839450
>>7839453
My files were like this:

#meta
Bullshitless text

#meta
Another block of text
Line 2

#meta
Linebreaks
are
"linebreaks"

Much easier to work with.
Unless you are an EXPERT VN ANALYST gentoo user neckbeard full of METADATA.

Can someone make a tlwiki page for this?

age~ru~

>>7839810
That would make Cudder sad.
Don't know why he can't just be content with it being translated.

>>7839878
It'd be easier to keep track of progress and stuff though.

>>7839878
>Don't know why he can't just be content with it being translated.
Attention whoring.

Somebody familiar with tlwiki should really make a page there.

>Let's take this offline (see email field).

stop machine translating your posts

>>7839450
>>7839453
10/10
Will read again.

Good luck OP, enjoy working with """\nExcel\n""".

>>7839970
Funny how the translator was fine with it but not >>7835420, or should I say, you?

You could at least try to hide your incompetency.

>>7839986
My packer doesn't need to replace special chars before inserting strings so I had to quicky modify it to handle cudder's CSVs.

Working in your favourite editor on something like this:

># meta 1
>Block of arbitrary text

># meta 2
>Block of arbitrary text

etc...

is much more comfortable.

Yay, not much work today so I got home early...

>>7839878
Wrong. You want to do stuff with TLwiki, I don't care. Put up an info page, whatever. We just won't provide any support. But coopetition (and being an LTP behind TLwiki) is also beneficial. We have considered that.

Then you might wonder why are we reluctant to work with them or provide support.

It's because of things like >>7835420 >>7835456 >>7835463 and now >>7840010.

Almost every single project is using its own ad-hoc script format with its own one-off tools. Given how long it's existed, it is a little surprising no one has thought to unify everything. TLwiki is really nothing more than a glorified pastebin.

I can give plenty of reasons why making your own ad-hoc formats is bad, but I'll let the experts do the talking. Give this a read, the first few pages are sufficient:
http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~dpw/papers/ddcjournal_preprint.pdf

>>7840010
Several issues I can see with that format just from your example:
- Target newlines and platform newlines are not distinct; the world isn't all *nix or Windows or Mac or <insert your platform of choice>.
- It's not clear where the text ends, whether there's a newline after it, etc.
- You had to write your own parser and "quicky modify it" instead of just using an existing CSV parser (I can give you the C one we use, just contact us)

On the contrary, about 90% of the code I used to create that example .asb in my last post existed before this project. We just have a tiny engine-dependent stub and everything else is all standard and generic.

tl;dr: Standards are standards for a reason. Use them and don't waste time reinventing square wheels.

>>7839946
I sense you're just a troll, but in any case...
http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/13193/origin-of-lets-take-it-offline

>>7840591
>Several issues I can see with that format just from your example
You don't have to deal with linebreaks yourself: readline + chomp should take care of that.
It might be easier for you, but for the translator it's much more convenient to work on a plain text file. Story of my life.

pic related, it's how the first mini chapter looks like. Ideally I would remove all the useless commands, leaving only the translatable text.

>Almost every single project is using its own ad-hoc script format with its own one-off tools.
Can't you use whatever tools/formats you want on tlwiki?

>>7840644
You should know by now that the moment Cudder gets involved, the translator's is only a tertiary part of the project. Cudder and whoever Cudder is pretending to use as a sock puppet are the most important people.

>>7840644
Are you the translator?

>it's much more convenient to work on a plain text file
Then you MAKE it look like a plain text file, but make it impossible to do anything to the structure --- which is the whole point of using a structured format. I'm quite sure I am not the first one to think of this, and there are plenty of existing products available to fulfill this use case. RWI is similar but online (and shows you the untranslated version too).

Your example shown is not really "plain text" either. It's a pseudo-structured ad-hoc format with interspersed metadata. If I load a CSV and show only the relevant column then it really does look like "plain text".

>You don't have to deal with linebreaks yourself: readline + chomp should take care of that.
I don't know what you mean exactly by the second part but you don't seem to understand that the target newline is NOT necessarily the same as the platform newline.

>Can't you use whatever tools/formats you want on tlwiki?
That's exactly what's causing the proliferation of several dozen incompatible formats. Your own invention is not improving the situation either.

F/HA project deserves an honorable mention here: They are using (sort of, because GNU) standard formats and tools.

>Cudder
>Translation thread

>>7840591
email isn't offline you fraud

>>7840740
>Your own invention is not improving the situation either.
There's nothing wrong with making specific tools for specific games. You don't invent anything. You don't engineer anything. You don't design anything. It's just VNs, dammit.

>the target newline is NOT necessarily the same as the platform newline.
Read a line, remove trailing linebreak, put line in array, join array with "\0". Every language provides a platform independent method to do it.

>Are you the translator?
No, I'm too lazy for this stuff.

>GNU
Okay, I see now...

>>7840784
>join array with "\0"
more like with "\n"

>>7840740
There is a nicely formatted wiki-displayable table-based utf8-encoded format which is used on quite a few projects on TLWiki. It would be the "standard" way to do stuff over there, just like you define CSV your standard, however nobody is forcing you to use any format (as long as you have your automated script grabber and possibly uploader set up to do whatever transformations you would want, which is usually quite little).
At times there would be multiple intermediary formats which are game-specific (if the scripts are compiled bytecode), while the final one that is posted is close to a common "standard" template. If the scripts are plain text, it may be kept as is for obvious reasons.

So, I'm confused. Should I keep translating using the CSV files or what? Should I be leaving the \n or ignoring them? What are you guys talking about?

>>7841075
Use csv, cudder will get mad otherwise.

>>7841075
>What are you guys talking about?
Different paths to reach satori.

I did a couple more scripts and uploaded them to this folder http://www.mediafire.com/?eh7afob20s0r7

I got too lazy to bother with the linebreaks considering I don't know how its going to look anyway and was just arbitrarily placing them.

>>7840782
"offline" in that phrase means "away from the main discussion", in this case this overlong thread.

>>7840784
>There's nothing wrong with making specific tools for specific games. You don't invent anything. You don't engineer anything. You don't design anything. It's just VNs, dammit.
I agree with your first sentence. However, IF there are existing resources you can leverage, it greatly increases productivity and workflow efficiency.

But then you say it's not inventing, engineering, nor designing --- when you came up with your own script format, (probably) wrote software to handle it, WHAT would you call that? Magic!?

[Screenshot: For a short while I thought you had it running in an emulator; very useful for this kind of cross-platform work. We don't have the hardware but understand the tedium of transferring large ISO images every time you want to test something.]

>>7841075
Yes, since you (or whatever editor you're using) handle it correctly. I suggest you strip the \n unless you WANT a linebreak right there, like in a list of items. We can wrap the text on insertion to the appropriate width.

We're talking about the proliferation of incompatible script metadata formats and the lack of standardization. Think of what the Internet would be like today if people had not agreed on HTTP and HTML. That is what VN projects are like today.

>>7842841
Do you want to keep the linebreaks or want us to wrap the text for you?

Here's the compiled scripts with YOUR linebreaks (no wrapping from us):
http://www.mediafire.com/?0469exol9l6lxoz

The other guy here can put them in and test.

>>7840887
Let's see... quick survey of http://tlwiki.tsukuru.info/index.php?title=Category:Visual_Novel_Projects
Ashita no Kimi to Au Tame ni -- absolutely no meta (I did check the wiki page source). Looks like it'll be a nightmare to assemble properly. I'd rather not think too much about that.
Daiteikoku - Page is a progress report, no script
Dra+Kol, Ever17.de - Ditto
F/HA - Offsite
Idolmaster SP - Looks like lots of stuff commented out, otherwise same metaless nightmare as AnKtATn
Killer Queen - Native NScripter markup. Not bad, except the damn page is way too long.
Koenchu.de - No scripts
Little Blusters - Ditto
Love Plus - Looks like a variant of the format that guy invented, call this ad-hoc #1
Mamono... - AnimED native format? And I can almost hear my browser shouting "stop torturing me with these long pages"!
Never 7 - Another custom format. #2
Ore no Imouto... - Nicely formatted, is this the one you're talking about? I can't see much meta, but is that handled on the backend?
Princess Maker 5 - yet another ad-hoc format, #3
Pure Pure - No scripts
Sa Na Ra Ra - Finally something familiar to the one above
Seinarukana - No scripts
Sorairo - ad-hoc format again, #4
Sumaga - No scripts
Kono Yo... - ad-hoc format again, #5

That would be TWO out of 19 projects using the "standard", which is unnamed and very much lacking documentation.

For us, it's CSV all along. That is what a standard is for. You USE it.

Looks like we're hitting a limit of fifty-two (52) characters, Japanese or otherwise.

Any more and strange things start happening, like the conversation suddenly talking about the "822".

This non-graceful degradation suggests a buffer overflow.

>>7840784
If you can, please test the newly compiled scripts in >>7843501 on real hardware for confirmation. I am curious how you broke that length limitation in >>7835420 and >>7835475.

>>7843510
>That is what a standard is for. You USE it.
Standards are there to stardardize complex stuff. Reading a line from a file and maybe applying a regex is nothing complex.

Well, it's only a matter of preference as far as OP is concerned, if he's fine with Excel then good for him.
I myself don't know how to open utf8 CSVs without manually importing them through the wizard.
In before use open soars software excel is evil.

>>7843594
Missed your post. The long about meeting Kobayashi is ok on my side.

>>7843501
>"offline" in that phrase means "away from the main discussion", in this case this overlong thread.

try machine translating your link again into whatever language you can actually understand. if you're still confused you might want to find a real translator to help you out. i'll wait.

The line appears fine in the dialog though.

>>7843618
>Standards are there to stardardize complex stuff.
No. Standards are there to enable *interoperability*. The complexity of what's being standardized is irrelevant. (Paper sizes and where to put holes in the sheets is a good example.)

[Give this a read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interoperability]

I would not assume he is using Excel. There are plenty of CSV editors with better support for things like encoding --- precisely because CSV is a standard. Excel's own CSV encoding support is surpassed by that of OO calc.

>>7843633
I noticed that shortly after I made the post. My emulator is faithful here. The backlog entries are limited to 52 (presumably Unicode) characters. I confirmed this with a memory inspection.

Fifty two characters stored in TWO HUNDRED AND EIGHT bytes. Damn RISC bloat!

If you know MIPS, this would be a good issue to work on. Make it convert to UTF-8 on read/write. This can quadruple the capacity to a more reasonable 208 ASCII characters.

(The alternative is to modify the structure's size. Possibly a lot harder.)

>>7843501
>Do you want to keep the linebreaks or want us to wrap the text for you?
You guys can wrap it or whatever. There just isn't much point in me putting linebreaks in when I don't have any idea where they should fit.

>>7843618
I'm just using Open Document to open the files. It seems to work fine.

That shiny-looking but awful-to-use template format script isn't the standard. It's just an ancient relic which isn't even compatible with the uploader/downloader scripts in use nowadays.

>>7843510
>>7840887
Plaintext scripts are easier to work on and cause less of a headache than trying to keep your CSV files kosher. You can also open them in notepad, an SVN browser, and/or a wiki page without having a headache.

In Chaos;Head, the translator extracted lines herself. You can see or remember how well that worked.

Riaimo translation files use double curly braces to represent data, each field delimited by a tab characters and a vertical line. It's actually wiki markup already, so it's rather good if you don't mind the slight pain of actually editing it; you soon get used to it.

Osadai has a tuple of lines (speaker, JP, EN) delimited by \n\n. It's the simplest but disallows freedom to modify the Japanese line, which may cause all sorts of unintentional headaches.

Finally, Sumaga files use indexes paired with special commands to replace, wrap, and escape lines in place during insertion.

Of course, you can do without indexes or Japanese text in translation files, but if you accidentally skip a line, hell breaks loose and you have to go rummaging in it yourself.

Up! Death to shitposters!

>>7843510
Some other projects also had them, but they are either completed or C&D'd (not on TLWiki anymore). Symphonic Rain and Ikusa Megami Zero come to mind.

It kind of slipped my mind, but there a numerous voiced videos in this game, so I'm not sure if they should be subtitled or something...

>>7843938
Understood. We will preserve any linebreaks in the text and wrap appropriately.

>>7844089
I'm not surprised, but the fact that some seem to think it's the standard and others don't is a sign that something is not right.

>>7844096
Consider HTML.

Writing your website in unformatted text may be "easier to work on and cause less of a headache", and "You can also open them in notepad, an SVN browser, and/or a wiki page without having a headache". You can write HTML by hand if you wanted to as well.

But why would you edit CSV files in a text editor if there are applications specifically designed for that purpose? Again, because it is a standard, you have choice of what to use.

We are aware CSV has its own deficiencies, but given that we are not a standards organization and would rather not reinvent the wheel poorly, it's the best choice we have.

I don't remember anything about Chaos;Head (are you confusing me with someone else) nor any of the other names you mention, but your presentation of another 3 ad-hoc formats further illustrates the fragmentation and proprietariness in VN translation projects today.

>>7847638
[shout]LISTEN UP, ANY FANSUBBING GROUPS HERE?[/shout]

I think you would have a better chance of finding someone to do that in /a/.

Great work so far guys. Next you should translate the suzumiya rhythm game for wii

>>7847921
> I'm not surprised, but the fact that some seem to think it's the standard and others don't is a sign that something is not right.
It's not enforced as there's no reason to enforce it: translators use what they like most (or what the team's programmer makes for them, if it's not plain-text already).
>>7847921
> but your presentation of another 3 ad-hoc formats further illustrates the fragmentation and proprietariness in VN translation projects today.
I wonder how standardized would you like it to be? Fansubs standardized on ASS(5) because it's a good format and can be used on most containers, but game/application translation tend to have a large variety of ways of storing text which can be localized. Making a standardized format leaves you with various game-specific problems (what if they want to remove blocks or change things around, or even add some extra content? ), not to mention can require writing extra tools. If the game engine offers additional fetures, you won't be able to leverage them anymore without editing the intermediary scripts.

>>7847933
One thread, one project please.

>>7847947
>It's not enforced as there's no reason to enforce it
Not "enforce", but "recommend". A recommendation can go far. [HTML is a W3C recommendation]. Interop is the primary reason --- translators and programmers alike can move between projects and collaborate, and everything (with the exception of the text itself) will be familiar to them.

>game/application translation tend to have a large variety of ways of storing text which can be localized
Ever since the byte became synonymous with 8 bits, text has been stored as a sequence of bytes. Encoding may vary but Shift-JIS, EUC-JP and UTF-8 have become ubiquitous. I fail to see any problem here.

>Making a standardized format leaves you with various game-specific problems (what if they want to remove blocks or change things around, or even add some extra content? )
There are two concerns you are combining here. One is merely the modification of text strings, and the other involves altering the behavior of the engine itself.

The majority of translation projects can be carried out with only the former, which is where standardization really matters.

For the latter, there is a certain amount of unavoidable "machine-dependence", limited to the script assembler/disassembler. We have a generic one that uses XML instruction definitions. Source code in assembler has mostly the same format for any architecture, with only differences in instructions. Thus any programmer wishing to make behavioral changes at this level will find it familiar and only needs to learn the instruction set of a particular engine.

>Talking about standards.
Look at gettext, a perfect example that comes to mind when you combine the words "standard" and "localization".

But here it's just lines of text with some metadata in it. You can't standardize the whole process of localizing a game.

I threw a new script in the folder~

>Translation thread
>Cudder

>Cudder
>Translation thread

Remind me why you haven't killed yourself yet.

Was Aroduc ever intersted in translating it?
The hacking seems to have progressed, so, how about contacting him?

Why cuder and his shills are still not baned?

>>7848868
All we need now is a proofreader. And a tlwiki page.

>>7848928
>That feel when everyone is too lazy to make a tlwiki page

Don't put this on TLwiki. Do you really want your project being hijacked by moogy and his merry band of faggots?

>>7849183
The scripts don't need to be on there. So I don't see what they would 'hijack'.

>>7849183
> implying Moogy gives a damn about any project that isn't his
> implying Moogy wouldn't rather play eroge than translate
Worst thing that could happen is that he gets a C&D and your project gets removed (not before you get notified (if you lurk IRC) to back your shit up).

>>7849185
Read the fine print some time.

>>7848089
gettext is GNU, which is not surprising. But F/HA project is using their text format (.gpo?) so it is worth something.

>You can't standardize the whole process of localizing a game.
Certainly, but everything that can be standardized should be; only the engine-dependent stuff varies, and we have a standard format for expressing those variations in the form of instruction descriptions.

>>7848824
That's been assembled and uploaded to this folder, along with the others:
http://www.mediafire.com/?zl8qrbx1uqndo
We have incorporated the wordwrap step into our process workflow, and it is currently set to 40 characters (seems acceptable, see image). Let us know if this number needs to be changed. You can always force a linebreak with \n but we will add linebreaks to stop lines exceeding (currently) 40 characters.

At periodic (likely daily) intervals we will run a script that checks for updates to your script folder, downloads any new/changed files, passes them through the process, and uploads the results to our "output" folder above.

The guy with the hardware (sorry, you have no name!) can take them from there for testing.

We should be almost ready to upload deltas against the .iso, and then everyone else can (pre-alpha) test this and provide feedback. [For all everyone not involved knows, we could be messing around with Photoshop and making everything up. Get a PoC out to prove that we have it working.]

>>7848928
The main outstanding issue right now is the 52-character limit in the backlog (>>7843925).

I really hope those screencaps getting posted aren't translation attempts.

>>7849183
>>7849185
My recommendation: If you're going to do anything with them, put a status page there WHEN we have PoC (c. within a week's time) but not before.

As I said before TLwiki is a sitting duck for C&D's. Keep it on /jp/ and it won't get much attention --- it doesn't need any. The translator seems fine with working offline and periodically uploading scripts to MF.

>>7849476
I have feelings Anon...

One more critical issue needing attention - there's a limit of 2 lines on the textbox despite it looking like it can fit 3 (and is trying to.)

What it SHOULD show here:
>And I too am very happy to be able to
>talk with the great detective,
>"Kobayashi-sama"...

>>7849494
The lines will most likely have to be edited afterwords to fit in the text boxes. I liked the tool that the idolm@ster project had on TLWiki, where you can enter a TL'd script and see how it all fits in the boxes so it can be edited as necessary.

>>7849479
You can always host your own server if you don't want to deal with the hurdle of moving if you get C&D'd. It's one of those things which can be dealt with when they happen. If you really want to avoid all possible problems, there are of course alternative ways of handling it. Of course, C&D's are only a problem if you plan on obeying them, but if you don't why care? if you care, why would you want to avoid getting them?

>>7849482
Do you feel the displeasuring feelings?

>>7849476
Somebody hopefully will proofread the translations.

>>7849456
>sorry, you have no name
Call me "Huge".