/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Ixrec is the gay buttlover of moogy and they are both trying to destroy the eroge industry in Japan

moogy is trying to eliminate ero from eroge because he feels the genre can be so much more by not translating thus forcing eroge producers in Japan to stop making ero scenes so their VNs can get translated by moogy

DISCUSS

It's official. VN is dead. Looks like I'll have to develop my social skills and start going outside.

>>7839208
Nice one, dude. Anyway, let's get ready to open the portal to Gensokyo.

Don't worry /jp/ will use their money to revive the adventure games and visual books industry.

Lucas Arts and Type-Moon will then team up to create the ultimate clicky fappy game. It will sell more copies than Angry Birds.

<Good>

In the US? The industry was never alive.

I admit I skimmed over the neechin posts, but isn't it just saying it might be the end of licensed western VNs rather than the VN industry in general?

I get the feeling that the industry was stillborn from the start and this is just putting the final nail in its coffin.

>Let's sell expensive software to an extremely niche audience filled with poor, tech-savvy autists

>>7839277
obviously japanese eroge industry will die too

>>7839277
No, they'll just be more careful when stealing projects from fan translators. All is well.

1) Neechin is a huge faggot. Who cares what this bitch says, what exactly does he do... for anyone? Oh cool, you translated a short cry-cry-game 10 years ago. If the guy gives me his address I'll mail him a six pack of smirinoff ice.

2) The Japanese are xenophobic to the point where they have to use a different alphabet for everything not from their own country. At the same time they will shamelessly steal whatever concepts they want from the west. Even after we dropped a nuclear bomb on them they still think we love them. I-I-It's not like we like you. We just want a hedge against Chinese Hegemony. Bakas.

3) Ixrec fucked up by deciding to engage Age in serious conversations. It's like Ixrec asked after fucking her, to marry the hot young model millionaire daughter of Age, and Age offered Kimi Nozo, it's ugly fat daughter in return. No thanks. Let's get model-tan on the sly and ignore fatty all-together.

But regardless of all of this, the Japanese suck. The only cool ones I know are yakus who wouldn't write any of this faggot shit. Don't cooperate with them, ever.

Recent studies by Mangagamer indicate that if you piss of the people working for you, they might not want to work for you anymore! News at 11.

>>7839197
I cant really cant believe mangagamer stupidity.
They have people translating katahane, mla and sharnoth for free and in the end just because they fucked up the negotiation, they started to blame them for killing the industry.
This is like blaming Urobochi Gen for not releasing Madoka in eroge format.

And nothing of value was lost

New post on Novel News and its just as bad

nice job DDoSing neechin.net, guys! keep that server offline!

>>7839344
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>7839344
No problem /b/rother

Whats wrong with no updates for months?
Fan translators are fucking dicks for releasing without our permission.

I honestly can't see how MG can justify being upset about this. Everything I've read indicates they royally fucked up communications with the fan translators. I guess they fail to understand that just because they're "fans" doesn't mean MG can get away with treating them in an unprofessional manner.

Not that I'll have to worry about any of this much longer anyway, given the way my Japanese studies are going. Teach yourself glorious Nihongo and be free of MG's autismal tantrums.

>>7839339
>We are committed to developing the market for Visual Novels in the west
How about they translate the many titles out there that dont have an active project like Baldr Sky instead of bitching about how they lost free translation because of their incompetence?

Wasnt the VN industry always dead? I was under the impression it was like a perpetual newborn baby born 3 months early.

>>7839364
its deader now

>Peter Payne
>As the person who has likely dealt with the most frustrating eroge companies and company presidents, I feel for you guys. Frustrating, but maybe something will improve in the future.

I BET EVIL JEW PETER PAID IXREC AND THIS HOMO FROM TLWIKI

>>7839197
SHUT UP YOU AIN'T EVEN A REAL DOCTOR.

>>7839405
touhous are qualified to diagnose autism seeing that all their fans suffer from it

With the emergence of the tablets like the Ipad and how it lends itself to interactive stories, I'm hoping the VN format gets revitalized in the west.

I'm not expecting stuff likeSaiminJutsu 2 on the PSP, but at least low-budget or indie games.

>>7839359

>Not that I'll have to worry about any of this much longer anyway, given the way my Japanese studies are going. Teach yourself glorious Nihongo and be free of MG's autismal tantrums.

Pretty much this. Though, I'm still a fairly low level so I'm still using IH + Mecab to crutch on Furigana for unknown Kanji.

what does the twitter message say? I can't get it to load for some reason.

>>7839570
>@Ixrec @Yuyucow Why on Earth did you have to go and do such a stupid thing? >.< are you trying to kill this industry? That is not helping.

>Buttranger 09/07/2011 02:29 AM
>Haha,no.

....

>>7839576
who said that?

>>7839588
Some guy who can't admit his errors and blames piracy for his problems

What is this thread even about? Who are moogy and Ixrec?
This is nonsense.

I'm pretty sure none of these people have anything to do with the Visual Novel industry.

Tell me when 07th Expansion shuts down or Romeo Tanaka dies or something.

>>7839601
anyone important?

>>7839614
mangagamer dev

http://novelnews.net/2011/09/06/amaterasu-deal-falls-apart-two-patches-released/

>>7839588
>who said that?
https://twitter.com/#!/Kouryuu_/status/110954898320928769

Sounds more like "VN INDUSTRY IS DEAD (in the west)"

We will still have fan translations.

I don't see how anyone can complain about this. it's not like animu fansubs that come out within hours of the episode airing. if companies can't get their shit together in the months it takes fan translators to finish the game then they deserve what happens.

outside of fap games, what has western licensing brought us? Ever 17, Demonbane, and what else? I'm fully supportive of the further translation of nitroplus games but it would be nice if they used resources on things that haven't been out for ages (cough Saya no Uta)

How long can it really take to get the license? Send over paperwork, stamp it, done. Shouldn't take more than a day.

>>7839656
Problem is they like to do low risk things. So they don't start working on a translation before the game releases, they wait and see how the market takes it. So they end up translating it at the same time or much later than the fan subbers do. They are trying to have their cake and eat it to, fan subbers are fat weeabos who LOVE cake.

>>7839628
I like how novelnews tints the wonderful news of 2 more patches getting released as a bad thing because they didn't wait a year or longer for permission from japanese companies. I'm looking at JAST, but without them some games would have never gotten a complete translation (because they paid for incomplete translations to get finished).

>>7839658
Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, Kara no Shoujo, Yume Miru Kusuri, Crescendo

Along with generic moeshit like Da Capos, Shuffle, fail classics like Kazoku Keikaku, and some more fap games like My sex slave is a classmate.

>>7839658
>and what else
Quite a bunch of other VNs.

>>7839662
Apparently it requires QUAGMIRE EFFORT.

>>7839662
Apparently not because of mixed ownership (they didn't acquire full ownership of all the art/code). They need to get all owners together and decide if they want to sell, what rights to sell, how much it would cost, the division of the cost and so on.
I don't think this is an acceptable excuse as they are the ones losing an opportunity to gain more money, but it is what the reality is and fan translators aren't going to wait for them if they can't do it fast enough and if the fan translators aren't standing to gain anything from this, which was the case with Ammy.

>>7839662
In the perfect world, that's how it would be. But the Japanese are absolute masters at red tape bullshit.

>Paging shitposter bangkok, eroge conspiracy thread
>paging shitposter bangcock, eroge conspiracy thread

So in other words the VN industry is completely unaffected by this pointless and negligible events from people who do not make VNs at all.

Its all good, fan translations>"official" translations 99.9% of the time.

If they want to spend years trying to license shit only to never release the VN in the first place they deserve to go under.

Also paying for shitty translations without voice and so on, no thanks.

>>7839681
HOLY FUCK HER MOUTH IS OPEN

Thanks Mg dev for creating more pointless drama.

>>7839668
>>fail classics like Kazoku Keikaku

What does that even mean?

I know most of /jp/ dropped it after they did the Aoba route though (she isn't even the main heroine). You missed out if you didn't do the loli.

>>7839709
>loli
>Jast
Oh u

>>7839709
Get back to work ZUN!bar.

I don't get all this drama. Why the fuck should I care? So what if some company dies?
Aren't they the reason so many translations get delayed? I mean, I do feel bad for those guys. They gotta make money somehow and all, but they make it sound like it'd be a bad thing for the fans if they go bankrupt. That's just bullshit. We'd be better off without them.

>>7839709

I just did the loli route and dropped it, for the combined reasons of I didn't feel like replaying all the common route and the loli ending felt like a very satisfying close to the story.

I'd rather just learn Japanese anyway to cut out that translating part that comes with licensing.

What the fuck killing industry.

Please Amaterasu and all other groups, just translate and releases your translations normally.

SAYING THAT THEY ARE KILLING THE INDUSTRY IS STUPID. THEY ARE THE ONES PUTTING HURDLES TO BEGIN WITH AND COARTING THE TRANSLATORS' FREEDOM.

Yes. I mad.

>industry
No. OP, why would you even do that? Some impotent company lost a deal it couldn't make in the first place.

There is no need for another pocket in the process of Creation (Devs) > Translation (Fans) > Distribution (DLSite).

>>7839738
THEY ARE KILLING JAPANESE INDUSTRY TOO WHY CANT YOU UNDERSTAND

>>7839197
>then warned me that releasing a patch would be “a giant FUCK YOU to the industry.”
Not that I can't sympathize with MG failing to release Katahane, but putting it on hold for a couple of years is rather "a giant FUCK YOU to the fans."
Especially if they can't explaing why. JAST have at least been fairly reasonable with whatever things have been taking a while, and their upcoming lineup looks reasonably tight.

>>7839679
>from people who do not make VNs at all.
MB funds the Overdrive branch.
And all while not perfect, I must say I actually do enjoy the "monkey ears" stories.

>>7839758
How tight are we talking about?

Why aren't you buying 2 copies of each release,anon?

Just got back from having no internet, so: Amaterasu can't attention whore if they don't release anything and are completely silent, Mangagamer got frustrated and started spouting all kinds of moral bullshit because Amaterasu couldn't wait the needed time to license their projects, anons don't give a fuck either way as long as they get their patches as soon as possible.
Did I miss anything?

>>7839795
Well its not like MG didn't know he planned on releasing them if it took too long.

>>7839795
Personally I think the Ixrec drama is pretty stupid, it amounts to
>Oh my god, he's going to make us wait for an official patch! Fuck that, that's a terrible idea!
>Oh, he finally released the patch? What an attention whore!
Yeah, this was all probably a terrible idea to begin with, but getting pissed at him for doing what you wanted him to do all along is asinine.

>>7839776
http://images3.jlist.com.s3.amazonaws.com/catalogs/JAST%20USA%202011-2012%20Game%20Catalog.pdf
Don't really know, but they should have this out by at least, the end of 2012.
My Girlfriend as the President is also most likely going to see its light before the end of this year, quite possibly soon.

They are also going to bundle Hanachirasu with Saya, as well as Kikokugai and Django bundled together according to
http://www.nitroplususa.com/new-nitro-titles-announced-preorders/

I doubt Seinarakuna is going to make Aeselia come out any later than it should.
Demonbane was stalled somewhat by N+ but it's already out, and Yukkuri Panic Escalation is also out for all its worth.

Given how School Days, Yumina the Etheral, Sumaga, and of course also Starless is going to be throwin in between somewhere between these titles before the end of 2012 does make it relatively tight, no?
Granted they actually manage to stick to this line-up that is.

Eroge should have never been translated to begin with. This would keep english-only peasants aka secondary eroge fans and their terrible tastes away. Then we could finally have some civil discussion while they sperg over their shitty nerd cartoons on /a/.

>>7839815
They'll get delayed because Japanase companies start to get fidgety over this piracy/backstab fiasco. No School Days, Yumina the Ethereal, Sumaga, Starless and so on because of dead industry.

>>7839815
>My Girlfriend as the President
My girlfriend is the President*
Well look at me, I can't even transcript a title even though I knew what it really should be.

>>7839816
Sup moogy.

So, Fate/Hollow Ataraxia translation still going on?

Anyone prepped to pick up Mahoutsukai no Yoru when it never comes out?

Type-Moon's always a big sensation.

>>7839831
Your thread is over there >>7823727

>>7839820
>No Yumina the Ethereal, Sumaga, Starless
considering 'n+' and 'will' already get their filthy gaijin money i dont think its going to happen

>>7839801
>Oh, he finally released the patch? What an attention whore!
More like "He released a patch after freezing Alternative on the moral grounds of helping the industry and being very vocal about it", if anything he threw an even bigger shitfit when the very same thing happened to him considering MG = Amaterasu, Amaterasu = leaker.
He takes very clear positions and then backs down at a whim, sounds hypocritical to me but yeah, I get what you're saying.

>>7839834

Those threads are useful for updates, but ultimately aimless and bad for discussion.

>>7839816
Am I stupid for learning japanese because I agree with Moogy?

>>7839841
I know what you mean. After 50 posts of reaction faces it always go down the drain and stick for a week even.

>>7839825
I'm not Moogy, this is a very popular opinion among /jp/ regulars, though they don't voice it very often because they are afraid of being accused of being Moogy by the hordes of secondaries.

>>7839847
Lol so is this a anime or what XD
What anime is this X_X?
Oh its hentai I wont be playing this then :P
Eww gross my favorite anime is hentai >_>
Yah Kanon is my favorite anime ever ^_^

>>7839855
XD BIG THREES CAN'T LET GAIJIN AMATEUR TRANSLATION RUIN THE REST OF THE TWO

Seriously, just start learning japanese. All the drama just seems totally pointless after a while.

>>7839872

I know the language up to the point where the only thing left is memorizing all that goddamn kanji.

Why is there so much kanji?

I know the language is hard to understand without them, I really do.

But why so many?

>>7839874
Kanji really isn't that big of a deal if all you want to do is get to a competent level of understanding what you read. Just start doing some, every day, and don't just spend forever finding a technique. I, too, used to hate when people said this, but there's really no excuse.

I killed the japanese industry.

Problem, sir?

>>7839681
None of the things said about Touhou strike me as particularly interesting, innovative or creative.

Is this accurate any more?

This entire thread implies that fanlations do not exist.

People like moogy are the reason nobody in the west buys VNs, nobody wants to support those jewy fucks.

>>7839908
it's funny because it makes more sense than the non-joke version

>>7839908
Needs to be updated, but still kinda accurate.

FAN TRANSLATORS ARE KILLING ESPORTS

>>7839691

Screenshot of the year.

Yandere, Amaterasu, TLWiki.
Which is the best? IMO they all suck.

>>7839908

>Japan/General
>Japan/General
>Japan/General
>Japan/General

>https://twitter.com/#!/Kouryuu_/status/11095489832092876
I got a 404 on this page.
Anyone got a screenshot?

It's over. Mangagamer is finished.

>>7839965
Got no pic for that sry

>>7839972
What did it used to say?

>>7839965
>>7839975

I think this is it.

Get out JAST devs.

>>7839995
Isn't that https://twitter.com/#!/Kouryuu_/status/110954898320928769 ?

>>7839965
https://twitter.com/#!/Kouryuu_/status/110954898320928769

>>7840002

I think OP just copied the link incorrectly. I may be mistaken though.

>>7840008
>11095489832092876
>110954898320928769
herp derp

>>7840011

Is that a confirmation or a disagreement? I don't know how the hashes in twitter links work.

Also:

>herp derp

Your school called and said to stop skipping.

>>7839691
Keima? Is that you?

Disruption is needed, and is good for the industry, you don't get the Japanese companies to release their stuff in the West by asking nicely, you get them to release their stuff by saying that their stuff will be translated with or without them making money on it. The reason that minori is working with MangaGamer and No Name Losers is surely not because the people at NNL were exceptionally nice, caring people, it is because they showed minori that they could not stop releases.

>VN industry is dead
With such superfluous writing skills OP, I think you should go work for Shitkaku.

Ixrec released a translation that has been online for half a year that Age said would not come over, and a translation from a company that seemed uninterested in the West according to the MG guy. He also announced some conditions if a company wants a free translation of KimiNozo, something he has neither translated nor plans to in the near future unless a company wants him to. I fail to see why this is as big of a deal as it is, as Ixrec is a fantranslator who contacted Age/MG to release the Muv Luv titles, which they turned down, and had no other personal interest in helping MangaGamer. He also made it no secret that he wasn't waiting forever.

I've never trusted MangaGamer, and I never will.
I could never forgive their translation of Da Capo.
NEVER FORGET

>>7840471
It is a big deal for making mangagamer very buttmad because their business model has been exposed as getting fan translators to donate their translations for free, then picketing outside Japanese companies' offices daily until they surrender and license their games for free as well, and even then failing to break even on costs when their shitty buggy releases sell ten copies apiece.

>>7840621
What did they do to Da Capo?

>>7840471
>>7840672
Actually Manga Gamer was able to tempt Age with the prospect of an English version of MuvLuv for minimal localization fee because Amaterasu was willing to donate their T/L. Age, being perpetually cash strapped, like the idea of quick income, even if it was tiny income so they started negotiating for the rights to distro overseas. Keep in mind that within this time, Age has already delayed their upcoming Kimi-Ita multiple times due to production issues and that Kycow, Age's CEO, sold his long-time family home to pay employee salaries until April. Age, having a history of being slow, make little progress on the Manga Gamer front while 5pb is petitioning them to put out MuvLuv for the 360.

March rolls around, earthquake, Age's office gets trashed. You all saw the pics. Almost immediately MuvLuv for 360 is announced in April, introducing 5pb into the Manga Gamer English distro discussion and suddenly the project gets canned.

Ixrec's decision to put out the patches, doesn't hurt Manga Gamer so much as it makes Age refuse to work with Amaterasu for any future projects which puts Kimi Nozo in danger. Right now, either bamboo has to convince Kycow to overlook Amaterasu's patches or they have to find someone else to translate that has Ixrec's dedication. Since Age is strapped for cash, they prefer to keep it at Ixrec's price ta as well.

>>7840848
Even so, I don't feel that Ixrec is being unreasonable to give his own conditions (outside of releasing it on his own in a fairly short time period) for working on KimiNozo if he is going to do it quickly and for free. However, it doesn't mean that they need to use his group, as they aren't MangaGamer employees, and if they (justifiably) decide not to use him, then they will indeed need to find someone else with a higher price tag. Regardless of the reasons as well, Ixrec kept it no secret that he would release Alternative in the event that Age and MangaGamer wouldn't, so while it is a shame that Age is having trouble, no one involved should be surprised after they told the group that Alternative was a non starter.

>>7840848
>Current age
>Strapped for cash
>MERCHANDISE MERCHANDISE EVERYWHERE

>>7840672
Merchandise is the most profitable factor in the whole otaku equation these days. A lot of anime airs solely in order to sell it, this probably includes the upcoming Muvluv Total Eclipse one.

Doesn't cost age anything either, they just tell the figurine companies "okay hand over the advance and you can make with our muvluvs like the Whore of Babylon" and it happens.

>>7841426
Kouki has said on his twitter, or it might have been in an interview can't remember, that the outcome of the TE anime depends much more on the merchandise sales than DVD sales in regards to seeing more things adapted.
And merchandise their will be, especially with that voice cast, the character designs, and I'm actually surprised Koto and such have been putting out TE TSF stuff rather than waiting until it airs.
Though, it possible more TSF merchandising lines will come out when it does air.

>>7840848
>Age, being perpetually cash strapped

Really? I thought they were rolling in cash considering they have stuff like this.

>>7841465
Have we all forgotten Old Dirty Bastard going to the Welfare office in his limousine?

>>7841465
Cars aren't exactly a liquid asset, especially ones that have been "customized" like so.
I wouldn't be surprised if that's owned by one of age's larger backers like Lantis though, either.

Look, more fresh drama updates.

>27 minutes ago:
>Regarding the multitude of articles written regarding our releases the other day, I have a significant correction to make.
>Although we feel it is ridiculous to take a year or more to get a deal worked out, that is absolutely not why we gave up on the deal.
>The reason we gave up was because we received very little information from MG during that time period.
>And even a large portion of what little we did receive turned out to be blatantly false.
>Whether we're willing to wait a year or two simply wasn't an issue after things got to the point where we couldn't believe a word they said.
>That is all. Resume the debate.

Anyway, if we don't get KimiNozo because of this, I'm not sure what sort of rash action my frustration will make me take.
Aside from sending a strongly worded letter.

>>7841495
Plus this from another member.

>(I'd also add that it became painfully obvious Japan doesn't take MG seriously enough.)

>>7841506
To who?

>>7841512
Always send strongly worded letters to your senator

>>7841512
Kouki.
In English.
With this picture included

>>7841516
eigo a shit

>>7841511
Would you take Bamboo seriously?
Really?
Really?

>>7841525
Seriously, would you?

>>7841531
You can see the Kotobukiya dev doesn't even take him seriously.

>>7841528

I actually never game much of a shit about the VN translation scene's inner workings until now.

Is VN drama always this interesting.

>>7841558
You bet a whole bunch!

How much processing is there between translation and release?

>>7841506
>Anyway, if we don't get KimiNozo because of this, I'm not sure what sort of rash action my frustration will make me take.

I think the bigger issue in getting KimiNozo now is not Age backing out of the deal because of this, but rather MangaGamer realizing that because Age won't let Ixrec translate it, they need to actually pay someone to translate 4MB of text.

>>7841562
I wonder of exclamation points were ever used unironically in any instance since /jp/'s inception.

>>7841585
You bet, a whole bunch!

>>7841583
>>7841583
>>7841583
>>7841583
>>7841583
>>7841583
>>7841583

THIS

>>7841506
>Anyway, if we don't get KimiNozo because of this, I'm not sure what sort of rash action my frustration will make me take.

You will always get every VN. The only question is whether it'll be an Officially Licensed(tm) release, or a free fanpatch of equal or better quality.

Frankly, I don't even understand what the fuck is MangaGamer's contribution in all this. They're a parasite. The original creators create the game. The fans create the translation. MangaGamer creates...????

>>7841618
>You will always get every VN
What sort of magic place you you live in?

>The MG rep denied knowledge of any missing lines in Koihime when I talked to him in April, but since he was lurking in our IRC channel...
>Earlier, we'd watched him change his nick to "Anon999" and join the channel for the unofficial Koihime voice patch to spy on them.
>He must not have been paying much attention, since one of the things the patch did was restore those lines.

>>7840770

Did you play it? The English script was just...poor. Not quite Engrish, but not worthy of something called a "visual novel."
And this was one of the titans of the VN franchises.
I remember comparing it with another of the titans, Kanon, which got a fan translation that is superior to Da Capo's professional translation was, and that kind of put me off MG.

>>7839569
>I'm still a fairly low level so I'm still using IH + Mecab to crutch on Furigana for unknown Kanji.

Sorry for my being an ignorant English plebeian, but can someone please tell me what this is or send me a link? That sounds perfect for my situation. I got AGTH+Atlas to work and immediately decided that it was retarded and that I would only try to read something in Japanese if I could get Furigana.

>>7841729
Just get TA to turn everything into furigana.

>>7841677
Uh, yeah, the translation was fairly bad, but Da Capo ain't no masterpiece, son.

>>7841733
I looked for an option to do this and couldn't find it. I'm probably just retarded though, so I'll go look again. Thanks.

>>7841729
I don't even use TA anymore. I just set up Furigana Inserter to capture text from clipboard and use that. Nice thing is that if I run into a word I need to look up, I always have Rikaichan handy.

Mangagamer died? good, and who fucking cares. We never had a problem with fan translations and we get the full game, and it takes the same time,maybe even shorter.

This doesn't seem very professional of MangaGamer...

>>7841810
>MangaGamer
>professional

>>7841729
Chiitrans

>>7841618
>MangaGamer creates...????

Tiny amounts of revenue. And hatred.

Problem with Mangagamer is that they're a Japanese company.
They do not get the western market.

>>7842269
Why don't the english workers explain that to them?

>>7842273
The only English worker is Kouryuu and he is either completely powerless or shares in their delusions. Likely both.

>We do wish both fans and fan-translators would show more patience and more commitment to seeing games officially released than has been shown here today.

>Translation wars
Just learn fooking Japanese already, /jp/. The amount of VNs that will open up to you are thousands.

>>7842304
Is that a real quote? How do they expect a deal to hold if they can't even give the group proper updates?

>>7842312

It is and kouryuu is a fucking retard.

Trying to get an official release for something that you already 1/3 unlicensed released was always stupid as shit. Being a licensor and working with fan translators who can't fucking stay quiet is full retard. Whatever drama comes from that now is just a side effect of that being really dumb to start with.

In the end I don't really care, age is giving me plenty of ways to shovel money in their direction these days. If we had gotten the Standard Editions or 360 edition, then I'd give a damn.

Why do we care?

We god fan translations before someone tried to make money off of it. We get fan translations during the time period people are trying to make money off of it, and we will get fan translations afterwords, too.

theres a vn industry??? I thought the whole thing was just a flea market

Watching some of the "important" guys on twitter (Kouryuu, the guy who wrote the two articles, and the people they are talking with), they seem to be misunderstanding something. If they want employees, then hire fucking employees. These translation groups are giving you the equivalent of many hours of work for free. They aren't employees who were hired to do a job, they are people with a common interest. When those interests no longer align, it shouldn't be a surprise that they no longer stay loyal. They wanted the 7-8MB of stuff Ixrec translated, and for him to translate another 4MB game, without giving him a dime. And he was fine with that, but he felt that he should know how stuff was happening, and he had his own expectations. It should be no surprise that he gets pissed off and no longer cares when you fuck around with him. He has said that MangaGamer told him next to nothing, and the few things that they did tell him, some were blatant lies. That would be fine if they were employees, however they aren't employees, they are people who are helping you because they are generous, but at the same time aren't blindly loyal to you, and are going to leave if you fuck around with them.

>>7842331
In theory, in the narrow case, rUGP is a mystic wonder whose workings escape the grasp of mere mortals, so -maybe- if age was actually helping people it would make translating some VNs a more reasonable endeavour.

In reality I can't see the VN licensing industry giving enough fucks to do any rUGP games other than KGNE and ML/MLA ever, and slow as hell at that.

>>7842331
>Why do we care?
Physical copies are nice, bundled packs are even better.
Don't want things to kill off the fan-translations though, but I can't really see that happening.

>>7842341
But but Shapeshifter and its Celtic Mythology based Magical Girls, and OwariNaki with its Unlimited/Alternative setting and meido cafes in a rural town in Kyushu, and serious business softball.

>>7842341
> rUGP is a mystic wonder
It's a complicated integrated mess. It takes a lot of work to handle properly.
>In reality I can't see the VN licensing industry giving enough fucks to do any rUGP games other than KGNE and ML/MLA ever, and slow as hell at that.
I don't think Ammy ever got any of their rUGP tools or anything too different from what they already had. The leaked patch used the tools they made themselves, the final one is the same.

>>7842349
Tell age to release proper tools then.
Here let me spin that from a different board and pardon the greentext but it is relevant
>Tell BioWare to release proper tools then
>Tell Infinity Ward to release proper tools then
>Tell DICE to release proper tools then
Even with an ocean between you, Jewetry still wins.

>>7842349
And they could even sell Shapeshifter by advertising it like Madoka because it deals with similar things like aliens trying to prevent the death of the universe by exploiting the protagonist!

>>7842353
Yeah, but every time they need an excuse why they won't do further age/age related VNs, it's "lol rUGP is hard"

>>7842357
I've already read(well, reading...) both of those games, so it's no skin off my back.

Guy who did the 2 articles is writing a followup article it looks like, because people didn't agree with him that all fan translations should stop with their patches and become loyal unpaid slaves for Mangagamer at the mercy of the Japanese companies.

>>7842308
who gives a shit about vns. i want drama

http://www.relentlessness.com/blog/2011/09/opinion-leverage-and-the-limits-of-good-will/

Who gives a shit.
Official or non official.
There isnt enough translators out there and mangagamer isnt even paying anyone to translate.
It took them like 3years to release kirakira, koihime and higurashi? The rest are nukige garbage and kara no shoujo is fan translated if i am not wrong.

Someone get a screen cap of the mangagamer IRC.

>>7842386
Interesting convo between the blog writer and Agilis (writer of those two neechin article at OP post)
https://twitter.com/#!/relentlessflame

>>7842386
>>7842417
I don't know who this guy is or why he matters.
But he likes Corti, so he must be an okay person.

>>7842417
More like two henchmen talking.

>>7842417

>>7842422
>>7842417
Fucking stupid.
They still dont realize that pissing off your userbase is not a good thing.
What they should do is to adopt the crunchyroll model.
Fast & constant release with questionable quality.
What they are doing now is slow and no release with questionable quality. Of course you will be in the red with this kind of shitty business practice.

>welcome to the real world, where yourCEO doesn't confide in his day to day negotiations, where contracts take weeks or months

Kouryuu retweeted that for someone

He seems to forget that in the real world, people get paid to do work as well, it is foolish to treat fan translators as employees unless you well, treat them as employees.

It's funny, because this is the best thing to happen for the community in a while. When they say they want the "community to grow", they mean they want their customer base to expand whether or not that means diluting the fan base. Get fucked, "publishers".

Why is drama so entertaining? I can easily drop all other tasks in order to keep up with this worthless shit.

Tell me something, /jp/.
How well off are VN companies in Japan?
Can they afford to hire people who actively hunt down and bring to justice copyright infringers?

>>7842417
>>7842422
>endorse fan translators who release VNs illegally
>threaten to sue them when they don't do what you want
Oh god.

>188 posts and 27 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
You guys don't buy visual novels, why do you give a fuck?
I know I don't give a fuck.

>>7842457
Depends on who they are, if they've hit it big, and what time of games they make, really. Visual Arts and Type-Moon probably could if they wanted do. Well, not Type-Moon, Nasu is too busy counting his infinite money flow.
But most, no.

>>7842417
>>7842422
Disgusting. If they were to try doing that, it would just drive whatever independent unpaid fantranslators underground (release-when-ready, pseudonymous).
Ixrec did what was right as a fantranslator and as far as the fans are interested (not from a legal standpoint, but this was never legal, he was just open to the possibility of releasing his work in a legal manner, and when that possibility closed, they couldn't have possibly expected that he would throw away all his work just because it would inconvenience their masters or their bottom line).

>>7839197
>>7839197
>>7839197
Why is she mad about autism? You don't treat autism by being mad at them, you treat it by understanding them!

>>7842457
They are generally struggling to survive with significant drops in revenue year after year, compounded this year by the Earthquake.

As far as other companies go, I suppose Jast could sue someone, however Peter is intelligent enough to know it would be a PR disaster and would never try it. MangaGamer is in the red, so they don't have the funds to go after anyone.

And as a reminder, the multi million dollar anime companies (and multi billion dollar movie companies) couldn't get the problem to go away, so it is a joke to think foreign companies struggling to survive could. They would sooner go after people in their own country where piracy rates are just as high then go after some person in the US.

>>7842463
Read
>>7842456

>>7842482
It's much easier to go after VN fan translations than anime fansubs and manga scanlations, since the amount of commitment required to translate VNs and relative obscurity means the number of people involved is a tiny fraction.

>>7842444
the funny thing is that while negotiations still take days and months for the CEO of a certain other publisher, he has no hesitation or difficulty keeping his partners in translation updated with specifics, rather than vagueness like "WELL YOU KNOW THESE THINGS TAKE TIME"

>>7842480

Those BREAK THE SUPPORT DISK days?

How idyllic they were

>>7842482
Domestic market is always the top priority. Don't mind if gaijins go mad and do their own silly things.

>>7842422
Why can't these fags admit they fucked up?

>>7842512
Which ones?

Meanwhile, in the land of twitter accounts I give a damn about no fucks are given.

>>7842527
All of them.

These people seem to forget that the majority of the Japanese companies tend to well, hate us. There is no clean way to get many of these company's to come over, no matter how nice you are or how long you negotiate. They will only come over if they see people playing their games in English without getting their cut of the potential profits, and this will only happen with fan translations (particularly those like Ixrec's and NNLs, who say fuck you to cease and desists).

>>7842529
That feel when Sou Miyata's twitter needs to be followed to see what delicious pictures he's tweeting.

>>7842532
Come to think, oh god why has this not been posted in this thread yet.

tl;dr

>>7842529
>Meanwhile, in the land of twitter accounts I give a damn about no fucks are given.
That's not moogy-dono

>>7842535
See
>>7841516

>>7842546
Let's rephrase that, WHY DO I HAVE NO SHORT TERM MEMORY

Where's my hard copy of MLA?

>>7842552
Confiscated by the authorities

I believe that Kouryuu has two main problems with his outlook on the community

1.) He mistakes the interests of fan translation groups with the interests of MangaGamer.
2.) He feels that people will be swayed by feelings of goodwill, rather than their own interests

>>7842552
In 2006.

>>7842552
Coming to an Xbax 360 near you this Fall.

>>7842569
3.) He thinks that this sort of debacle generates any kind of goodwill towards corporate middlemen.

I mean, come on. It's kinda funny to watch him and Agilis carry on on twitter, if only because of how out of touch with reality they are.

>>7842552
In an alternate dimension where MLA actually had a western release.

>>7842569
If by goodwill you mean wanting to help the eroge producers be able to eat, I guess.

is there a tl;dr for this

>>7842666
The better way to do that is to buy the games in Japanese. They get more of your money and you don't support shitty business practices.

>>7842755
Full MLA patch and Sharnoth patch are released. A Profile in-progress. Forest is planned next.

You don't need to know anything more than that. It's just pointless drama.

http://hevoluson.blog87.fc2.com/blog-entry-168.html

>>7842762
You also need to know what circle of fags started the drama.

>>7842786
Ixrec and his cocksuckers as usual.
You should be used to this by now. If there's any drama involving them, you should immediately know they were the cause.

>>7842804
Actually everyone was happy with what they did.
The drama didn't start til a CERTAIN someone and his business pals made some blog post.

>>7842811
They're still the root cause of the whole thing though, dating back to January.

This whole drama is just noise that will go away eventually. By the look of thinks there wasn't never really any intention by Age to release to license to Muv-Love.

The real problem with Manga Gamer and what is REALLY killing the industry has always been the prices. You cannot expect the small and under-developed western market to pay the same amount of money that the Japanese pay for their retail copies (with extras) for digital only VNs with doubtful translations. Carpe Furgur approach with Recettear was only successful because of the 15$ price tag, no reasonable market would have paid more for such a small/indie game. Different markets calls for different prices and strategies, if they can't adapt it's no wonder why 90% of the userbase ends up relying on fan translation and bootleg copies.

http://www.relentlessness.com/blog/2011/09/opinion-leverage-and-the-limits-of-good-will/comment-page
-1/#comment-984

>>7842825

> You cannot expect the small and under-developed western market to pay the same amount of money that the Japanese pay for their retail copies (with extras)

We don't. We pay half as much.

> for digital only VNs with doubtful translations.

OK, good point there.

>>7842825

>227 posts and 33 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view

This thread, and those links, would be so much better if only the people who would buy the game, in the ideal case that it is fairly priced, were allowed to post.

In fact I wonder what the discussion would be like. I am most curious.

>>7842873
Just as planned for them I suppose.
With "going silent" Ixrec began to wilt from the lack of outside attention, and thus needs a huge spike to recover.

>>7842825
When was the last "doubtful" translation Mangagamer released? Also as already mentioned they don't charge nearly as much as the Japanese versions cost.

AND NOTHING OF VALUE WAS LOST

>>7842892
Well at least it'll be good entertainment while waiting for A Profile.

Yes, I've finished Shanoth and Katahane and now I feel so empty inside.

>>7842892
I don't know man, the fact that he translated 1.5 visual novels in that time means he must've had some other major source of motivation. Unless, as you're sort of implying, he's just one patient bastard and knew doing all of this so fast would get more attention, which I just don't buy.

Okay, that's enough acting with indifference towards Ixrec for me today.

>>7842902
that's because they know they can't
even at these prices sales are hard to come by because of the demographic. if they were at japanese prices they'd have no sales at all

1.) It never was alive here

2.) If fans can put together a good translation of a game ,ON THEIR FREE TIME,before you can even finish TALKS to start translating the game, its your own god damn fault for the lost business.

3.)Shitty prices and shitty business practice kills industries, nothing else, nothing more. If they want money from English speaking countries, they have to make a good effort to provide us a good service, if not, people will do their work, for free, and distribute it, for free.

>>7842902
I can't find it but didn't Koihime contain the line "her pussy was full of snakes"?

>>7842873
Attention whore.

>>7842902

From what I hear the community was very vocal about the quality of Da Capo, and I did read in some blog posts that the Japanese companies have the final say on the script disallowing the publisher and the translators to have a final proof-read take on the product. That alone is enough for me to think twice about paying money for their products. Not to mention that I hear they can be quite buggy too, even their 50$ titles.

About pricing specifically, I compared it badly, I do know how expansive the originals can be and how crazy the Japanese fans are to pay for those prices. But that is irrelevant really, their pricing has nothing to do with our market, that is what they need to understand. Just making a quick browsing in MangaGamer and I can see nothing but 30$+ titles for a couple of big releases and nukiges. This is the price some video games get released here, and I'm pretty sure that to the average costumer the later has a lot higher value than some porn games with text.

What they need to do is popularize concept, release the flagship titles at prices people are actually willing to take a risk at (~15) and maybe Manga Gamer will have a shot at expanding and profiting from this market.

>>7842975
Da Capo was released close to 3 years ago, and the main problem was that they released the unedited version (accidentally, they claim). The edited version had no major issues (it read stiffly but so do many other translations, both official and unofficial). Although I haven't played every Mangagamer release the last one I remember having a poor translation was Higurashi's question arcs almost 2 years ago. The only bug I've ever heard of or encountered in their releases is that Kara no Shoujo one.

Now someone's going to undoubtedly call me a Mangagamer white knight, so I'll mention that I've pirated all the MG games I've ever played and I don't care whether they survive or not. I just don't like people being wrong on the internet. There's a lot of valid complaints that can be leveled at MG, so exaggerating and making dishonest claims only detracts from the real criticism.

http://www.neechin.net/article/176/information-contracts-deals-cultures-and-bid-ness

look guys, those uppity translators just don't get that japanese companies want to Take it easy, okay?!

Considering how Amaterasu feels like they have the moral high ground I can't wait until companies (which now have a decidedly hostile outlook rather than just not giving a fuck) start dropping C&D hard on them and claim their legal rights.
Honestly, Ixrec is acting like he produces these games just because he's quick in his work, it's embarassing to watch.

>>7843081
I got enough laughter out of his asspain in the first two blog posts. Reading another one of his tl;dr rants just seems tedious now.

>>7843081
Is he trying to embarrass himself?

>>7843103
The companies do not give a fuck, have you been paying attention? The only people who are ass annihilated here are from MG.

"My bosses never confided in me the details of what was going on for a project I was working on until they had good cause to warn us something was going to explode."
Oh wow. He really is stupid.

the neechin guy is a complete idiot and loves to make shit up

Protip : International leagl suits are so fucking expensive that theres no point in doing them unless you can confidently get enough money back to cover the costs, and then some.

>>7843112
>have you been paying attention?
Have you? We got two company big shots publicly condemning the thing already, and as someone pointed out, eroge companies aren't insulated

>>7843124
Here's not-condemning.

>>7843113
I like how he thinks fan translation groups are somehow equivalent to employees, and that the MG devs have the right to be called their boss.

>>7842346
>Physical copies
>MangaGamer

Choose one!

>>7843113
I doubt he really is working in a company.
That is so wrong and wrong.

Or he's working as a burger flipper or something.

>>7843141
Tried posting something similar a while ago.
Site went down I guess.

>For now, if someone can come up with clever ways to do any of the above, that’d make things flow better, but otherwise, you’ll have to suck it up like the rest of us.
How about we ask mangagamer to fuck off?
What have they contributed besides holding back release and whining about not making profit?
Can they even release a title every 3months without the free fan TL given to them?
I rather just buy original HARD COPY from paletweb and merchandises which is what I have been doing to support the industry.

Can't believe those retards actually wasted their time and world-wide internet bandwith by releasing another terrible Liar-shit disney game, that nobody cares about.
I will report every thread about it until deletion. EVERY FUCKING ONE OF THEM

>>7843201

>>7843201

Cool story, bro.

Also, disney devs are retarded beyond autism. First off it was highly unlikey from the beginning that age would agree to license their flag ship Muv-Luv to a non existing market like in the West. But no, instead of using common sense, a tiny group of autistic dicks loving disney dev retards thought they could become gold digging erogods by putting a revolver on the chest of age. This stuff is just unbelievable.

Many months later, age manages to pull their heads out of this shit and the same group of thiefs and retards starts to threatens the IP holders to steal their hardwork and distribute it illegally on the internet.

You cannot make this stuff up. That's how retarded these faggots are.

Fanfaggots should realize that Japan is not obligated to shit towards them for anything. You won't get paid royalties for stealing.
And the most important aspect of teamwork is centered around trust. That means, if you decide to commit yourself to get a localization of a Japanese IP done the legal way, then stay with it to the end, even if it takes years to finalize negotiations.

And not by opportunist flip-flopping turning into digital rape steal thief mode!

>>7843269
Hahahahahahahahahaha

>>7843269
Is this some sort of shitty altered copypasta or something? I honestly have no idea if this person is being serious.

>>7843283

I stopped reading when I got to "Disney"

>>7843269
>disney

Stopped reading there.

>meanwhile at witch-hunt

>>7843363
Your thread is over there >>7823727

>http://www.neechin.net/article/176/information-contracts-deals-cultures-and-bid-ness#c000613
I love you.

>>7843381
Buttranger has save the day, once again.

White knights to the rescue.

White knights to the rescue.

I love how the circlejerk on twitter are all talking about possible legal actions and wanting to see it be possible, etc. Considering MG is perpetually in the red and their customer base is already just a very tiny fraction of their target base, which itself is pretty small and largely made up of pirates, I feel like taking legal actions would hurt MG just as badly if not worse than it would the fan translator they try to sue. MG really needs to just cut its losses here and stop talking about it before Kouryuu makes himself and the company he represents look even stupider on twitter.

As for Agilis, Agilis has always been an idealistic dumbass. Let us not forget his failed project "Proper Permissions" (http://web.archive.org/web/20100815091056/http://www.proper-permission.org/).).

Fan translations working with commercial translations CAN work as shown by the JAST/Nitro+ dealings. The key difference here was that JAST already had the license for Nitro+ games so they could guarantee things would be coming out (and there was also the added incentive of money). Unless the company already has the license or sees potential in your offer and you are willing to wait indefinitely, trying to work with one of the localization companies is just a stupid move for everyone involved.

This kind of shit could be avoided if they forced people to sign contracts or stop getting into potentially shady dealings such as this one.

>Considering MG is perpetually in the red
i seriously hope you guys dont believe this
company and always say to their customers they arent making profits because they like to buy the empathy from their customers
this is business 101

>>7843606
All evidence points to them being broke as fuck. For example, the NEED to start cutting content out of a game because they cannot afford to license it. That's not something a company who isn't strapped for cash does. That move alone has cost them some customers. You can make rough estimates as to their sales numbers for Koihime by looking at the progress they gave on the voice patch and their target goal. Their paid staff is pretty small (there might be more behind the scenes but I can only think of 2 people not coming from the fan translation groups) and excluding the translators for the fan translations they absorb, they pay with coupons instead of money.

>>7843636
>the NEED to start cutting content out of a game because they cannot afford to license it.
it takes more money yes but that doesnt mean they're in the red
>That's not something a company who isn't strapped for cash does
they might just have done it because it isnt as profitable, again, business 101

if it's less profitable, why do it?
pretty simple logic
my company also cut off shit that makes us less profitable, that doesn't mean we're in the red

>>7843641
Business 101: Shit all over your customers. Got it.

>>7843663
mangagamer wasnt even shitting at their customers
they just do what best profits them
they probably decided that removing the voice wouldnt effect the sales as much and they will make more money by that
and they were probably right

whats the point of a company again if they don't try to squeeze the most money out of their customer

You have to be an autist like bangcock to imagine they aren't dead broke.

>>7843524
First time I have ever agreed with with fuji

>>7843861
japs are evil

>>7843861
i dont expect much from a person who never worked as an executive or upper

Just learn Japanese already. The sooner you start the better. It's not fucking hard.

Support Mangagamer's official localizations!

Why care about the industry? Fan translators release a lot more translations per year (of superior games, too). You don't need FUNimation for anime, you don't need Mangagamer for eroge.

>>7843980
But they release great Overdrive games!

Fuck kamige. Where's my chuuni.

The industry *should* die. Seems all it's been doing is slowing down fan translations. Well, JAST is okay I suppose.

>>7843993
i fucking love chuuni

but why does eroge have to put DEEP in chuuni?
why cant they be just chuuni

>>7844004
Why do translator pick kamige or disneyge or otomege. Fuck that. Fuck DEEP. Just give me chuuni. Pure chuuni. 1000% chuuni.

> P.P.S. On an unrelated note, the group has inexplicably shrunk to only two editors and two QCers, so new members are more welcome than ever. Just make sure you actually know English and aren't a total flake.
> Edit: We got about 7 volunteers the evening this was posted, and I think any more than 3 new guys at a time would be a bit tricky to manage, so I won't be taking anyone else for the time being. Thanks for offering though. The next time we need more I'll probably message the other 4 guys.
> Edit: Make that 8 volunteers and 5 other guys. I missed a few blog comments.

Yep, eroges are going down. Some fucks apparently think that if money isn't involved nobody will be interested in releasing stuff.

To go with the debate earlier about profitability: http://mangagamer.blackss.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1111&start=20#p12685

And on the previous discussion: http://www.neechin.net/article/176/information-contracts-deals-cultures-and-bid-ness?commented=1#c00
0617

cool speculation by not even an analyst with credibility forum and blog post

>>7844185
cool speculation by not even an analyst with credibility forum and blog post

>>7844186
You realize you're dissing on people directly involved with this, right?

>>7844186
yep
i am an executive at a certain company

i know how a company runs
you dont
they dont
end of story

>>7844191
i dont expect much from a person who never worked as an executive or upper

>>7844195
>losing argument
>shitposts

yep

>>7844199
Problem, sir?

>>7844199
So you know more about how much mangagamer sells than mangagamer themselves? And of course, more about the deal with amaterasu than they do. Right.

>>7844201
yep.

>>7844205
>So you know more about how much mangagamer sells than mangagamer themselves?
have they ever officially stated they are in the red?
if no then don't go around and and make presumptions

>>7844201
don't mess with him dude, he's a high-powered executive at a very lucrative street food cart

>>7844215
But they have? Both Bamboo in the first stream talk and Kouryuu in countless places, one being one of these links you dissed.

>>7844220
i seriously hope you guys dont believe this
company and always say to their customers they arent making profits because they like to buy the empathy from their customers
this is business 101

>>7844220
the kouryuu guy isn't even aware of the sales number
>I doubt they're in the green yet.
i really doubt he is in the upper position of mangagamer that have the exact numbers

>>7844228
...Kouryuu is the boss of the English side of mangagamer.

>>7844233
yes is he in the position to know the numbers?
my company also have branch offices where the supervisors have no idea about the numbers. their job is to just guide their subordinates.

Poor Evospace.

>>7844242
Who?

>>7844199
>greentext without quoting
>talk about shitposts
Nice irony /b/ro.

>>7844251
Type-Moon fanboy.

>>7844311

How mangagamers hasn't gone out of business for the past 3 or 4 years shows exactly that their uppers at least know how to run a "business"

It doesn't mean they know how to effectively sell visual novels though..

>>7844346

>>7844329
if they didnt know how to run a business then they wouldnt have the credits to make a loan from the bank to start the business in the first place

>>7842924
>>7842924
>>7842924
>>7842924
>>7842924
>>7842924

THIS