/jp/ - Otaku Culture

I thought we all agreed that /jp/ was incapable of giving constructive ideas.

>>7758058
Well, there were certainly a few people in the other thread who were vocal about it being too adaptive for their tastes. I suppose more of the same would suffice.

Whats real imouto?

>>7758069
http://tlwiki.org/index.php?title=Real_Imouto_ga_Iru

First and foremost I would like to thank you for translating this game.

I could do without the swearing, a more literal TL might satisfy mostly everyone but I don't mind adaptive if done tastefully. A more literal TL will rustle less jimmies though.

>>7758032
Seriously, only autistic people want literalism. Not that you may well be overstepping the bounds of translation, but there are people on /jp/ who literally do not think that writing quality matters in a translation.

For my money, the best handled translation was still FLCL, which had direct translations in the subtitles, americanized jokes in the dub, and a big pamphlet full of explanations of all the jokes.

Just throwing this one out there, but remember the audience for VNs in America is so weeaboo that they tend to get most of the Otaku references in the first place.

Second note: translating into what a "real" western high school is might not actually be that great of an idea, because eroge doesn't depict anything close to a real japanese high school in the first place. It's a fantasy garden of pure maidens. Otaku hate real women, so unless vulgar speech is a particular character's trait it probably shouldn't come across that way in English.

>- Reduce swearing in fight scenes

I actually find the swearing funny, but whatever, not like it really matters. Thanks for translating this game man.

translate "kimo-ota" as "neckbeard", nothing can go wrong with this one

Daytime /jp/ sure is full of shit.

>>7758082
I'm torn on this, because even though watching schoolgirls use that language is hilarious, part of what I enjoy about Japanaese insults is that they're really creative—it's not stuff like "fag" and "motherfucker" it's usually a drawn-out comparison to a large list of demons, insects, and livestock, like the way Yozura insults Meat in Boku no Tomodachi.

>>7758081
>translating into what a "real" western high school is might not actually be that great of an idea, because eroge doesn't depict anything close to a real japanese high school in the first place.
No, translating into what a "real" western high school is makes no sense whatsoever because it doesn't depict a goddamn western high school, real or not.
Are people seriously that fucking xenophobic and close-minded to be unable to accept that shit goes down differently in different parts of the world?
To me a big part of the appeal of foreign-based fiction has always been learning about different cultures, any localization outside of language gets in the way of that and has no place in anything but children's cartoons.

>>7758093
What the hell? I guess this is ultimately a matter of opinions, but I find jap swearing to be boring as a goddamn sin. Maybe it's probably related to the fact that I'm not a native english speaker, but I'll be fucked if it isn't a god-tier language for swearing. Watch any movies with a drill instructor and you'll know what I mean.

>>7758073
>First and foremost I would like to thank you for translating this game.
No problem. I'm just glad to see interest in the project.

>I could do without the swearing, a more literal TL might satisfy mostly everyone but I don't mind adaptive if done tastefully. A more literal TL will rustle less jimmies though.
That's what I'm hoping for. I hope everyone will be able to enjoy the game regardless of their preference.

I may not be willing to change my entire translation style, but I can certainly put aside our differences and make an optional patch to appease the people whose preferences are otherwise.

>>7758081
>Seriously, only autistic people want literalism. Not that you may well be overstepping the bounds of translation, but there are people on /jp/ who literally do not think that writing quality matters in a translation.
Don't worry. The literal patch won't change every other line to be Engrish. I will still keep the lines that are adapted to make it flow well in English but not change the meaning to the point people would complain--such as the kimo-ota ones.

>Just throwing this one out there, but remember the audience for VNs in America is so weeaboo that they tend to get most of the Otaku references in the first place.
True. This is why I chose to at least keep honorifics intact... or perhaps I was just lazy. ;)

>Second note: translating into what a "real" western high school is might not actually be that great of an idea, because eroge doesn't depict anything close to a real japanese high school in the first place.
Seriously noted, but I hope you or others will not be offended if I do not decide to incorporate this into the default patch; regardless, I will always offer the alternative to it in the optional patch.

>>7758105
Most Americans don't actually swear like Full Metal Jacket though.

>>7758101
I agree, but there are points at which literalism becomes a problem. For example—translating idioms with a direct english equivalent literally. This results in characters spouting nonsensical poetry apropos of nothing, when they're really saying "a rolling stone gathers no moss" or something. Besides, there is no such thing as a direct translation in the first place, something cudder (didn't) find out first hand.

This isn't about translating onigiri as donuts, it's about writing sentences that sounds like things a human being would say. Japanese grammar is completely different than English, and the more I learn of Japanese, the more I see translators not doing their jobs and making characters say very awkward things.

>>7758105
>finds swearing amusing

i am sure going to play this second release of an hour-long demo again so i can experience it in literal-o-vision

One question I have everyone regarding the patch is with imouto. Right now the "little" in "little sister" is omitted in normal speech because people usually only say "sister" except when introduced/asked--the exception to this is when talking about imouto games, where I had no choice but to always include the "little" considering it is its own characterization and even genre of games.

So my question is this: In the literal patch, should I always include the "little"?

Make one character spout lulzy mames all the time, like Eiichi in G Senjou, that was epick win.

>>7758157
little sister, no exceptions

>Based on feedback I've received from the Real Imouto ga Iru demo, I'm going to give people the option of a separate, more literal patch with the release of version 1.1.
Thanks

So, will all girls die at the end of their routes or just the imouto?
This is important.

>>7758175
Well done you faggot.

how long until the next partial patch gets released?

>>7758157
Use little sister when you want to emphasize the fact that she is a younger sibling (during an introduction for example) and just use 'sister' the rest of the time. Always using little sister is awkward as fuck.

>>7758183
Agreed. That's how I have it now, and that's how it'll stay by default. But if people want it differently, I can always make it optional in the separate patch.

Second specific question: Now that there will be more literal patch that will of course maintain honorifics, should I remove honorifics in the default?

>>7758214
No.

>>7758214
no

>>7758214
Go for it completely, otherwise there is no need for a second patch.

>>7758214
Yes.

>>7758214
No.

>>7758214
maybe

>>7758214
1-3: yes
4-6: no

>>7758221
>>7758223
>>7758285
I hope you're just joking. What's the point of localizing and pretending that characters are murrikans if you're going to leave in random japanese words? Especially when there will be a weeaboo patch.

>>7758312
Dubs: de-gozaru

The only problem I have with removing honorifics is that there will be some rewriting that will need to be done in one or two short scenes.

For example, at one point Mai complained that Ryou added -chan and wouldn't. At one point Ryou stopped the -chan and it was like a touching moment or something.

So to the people who were in favor of dropping honorifics: Are you still okay with that?

>>7758393
Minus the "and wouldn't". Sorry, typo.

>>7758393
Removing honorifics from dialogues and shit doesn't meant they stopped existing in japan.

Thanks Koto.
I'm glad something good came form the last shitstorm.

i think keepping the honorific like this is better

Cut down on the use of shit and other such american style speech patterns and words in Ryou and Akira's speech.

I didn't have much trouble with it, really. And translations aren't supposed to be too literal, take that too far and you enter Cudder/FH4 territory.

>- Make "kimo-ota" joke scene more literal
This however, wasn't adapted well at all. Here it is not much about being literal or not, but she is clearly saying "disgusting nerd". Just because they have developed a shortened slang for the phrase, doesn't mean the meaning is not the same.

So no matter how you twist or turn this phrase, what she is trying to convey is how she finds him disgusting, and disgusting for his "nerd-life" and/or "nerd/obsessive hobbies".

But all in all, no need to be too literal. The languages aren't the same, and the dynamics of the languages are different.
The art of translating is to convey the original meaning, but in a way that is as natural as possible in the end language.

Something I stumbled upon randomly today:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=103272
Pretty sensible.
I know, >animesuki but just give it a look.

>>7762702
>You are not a scriptwriter: Your job is translating from one language to another, not inventing dialogue. You are not a scriptwriter nor spin doctor. Whatever your translation may be, it should retain the meaning of what is actually being said, and convey what the producers meant to.
This should be pasted to all those translators who go out of their way to show how they don't translate literally, with hilarious results.

>>7758393
This is a tough call. In fact, scenes like this are probably one of the main reasons that otaku started demanding that honorifics be left in—not just because weeaboos want PURE NIHONGO but because translators were thinking "what the fuck do I do with this."

Most otaku are so used to them that even in a more translated patch they'd probably be acceptable. Unless you want to make up some kind of nickname to substitute for the honorific, you've got to fundamentally change what's going on in the scene.

>>7762702
>I have translated an estimated 100 hours of J-E fansub video playback time in dorama, film, music, and anime
no

>>7762727
This isn't wrong, but the line between the two is more blurry than your post implies. In order to perserve meaning, you can't translate literally—this isn't just cultural things or memes, but the basic words of the language are so different that translation requires a writer at least close to as good as the original.

Cudder's "translation" project was a failure because he so completely misunderstood the nature of language itself.

>>7762764
It's even tougher in cases of sentence enders.

I remember one memorable scene in ONE where Kouhei makes fun of Mizuka's use of -da yo and -mon at the end of her sentences. Except English variants were used, and all I could think of was wtfmireading throughout the scene.

Of course, I don't think that -da yo and -mon should be left at the end of every sentence, but since the two sentence enders don't really have a specific English equivalent, I personally think it should've been left as is, so I'd at least know what the hell they were referring to. Same with honorifics, in a sense.

>>7762687
>neko kawaii!
>Cute cat

Shit nigger,thats hard. Were they by chance talking about a, cute cat?

>Right now the "little" in "little sister" is omitted in normal speech because people usually only say "sister" except when introduced/asked--the exception to this is when talking about imouto games, where I had no choice but to always include the "little" considering it is its own characterization and even genre of games.

If it is a description, little sister. If he is talking about or to her and such, then it is name that goes. Nobody says "little sister" to their little sister. Might as well yell "You!".

>Second specific question: Now that there will be more literal patch that will of course maintain honorifics, should I remove honorifics in the default?

Never remove honorifics.

Actually this got me thinking. How do translators separate polite form from less polite form? What is the difference between da and desu in a translation?

>>7762796
>implying all languages don't have mostly common structures that translate straightforwardly
>implying Cudder is a he
>implying you're not trolling
>implying you're going to call me Cudder

>>7764149
You deal with that the same way you deal with honorifics, by understanding that it provides context as to how characters communicate that and apply it in other ways, such as word choice and sentence structure.

>>7764149
You have formal tone/words and informal tone/words in english too, you know? They're aren't obvious as da and desu are, but it doesn't take a literary genius to know the difference between "Whatcha lookin' at bitch?" and "What might you be looking at, miss?"

>>7764149
>How do translators separate polite form from less polite form?
You can do stuff like
ありがとう -> thank you
ありがとうございます -> thank you very much

>What is the difference between da and desu in a translation?
There is none because English doesn't have that feature.

>>7764190

How am I expected to add masculinity to my sentences without da?!

>>7764219
Yell them!

で御座います。ｍａｓｔｅｒｒａｃｅ

>>7764228
there's something hilarious in thinking one of the most humble forms is "master" race

>>7762702
Fansubbing is at an entirely different level than VN translation. With the former you basically only have audio to go on while the latter gives you the exact words.

>>7764149
>What is the difference between da and desu in a translation?

You can easily make sentences sound more or less formal/polite in English:

I am doing very well, thank you very much.
I'm doing fine, thanks for asking.

>>7764240
...It sounds like you're saying that fansubbing is harder, which could not be further from the truth.

>>7762702
Now that I actually look at this, it's hilariously shitty and full of contradictions. I particularly like the line about how people who disagree are "ignorant haters."

>>7764278
You're confusing length with difficulty.

>>7764337
Wrong. Care to try again?

>>7758032
The translations don't have to be literal. For example a literal translation of a Japanese idiom might make no sense in English. The point is keeping the meaning the same.

I took contention with the kimoota part, because you did not translate it or keep the same meaning, you simply change the insult.

If there were no swearing, and the translations kept the meaning of the original, then it is a fine TL.

I'm not sure about sasuga being more literal. What was it before? What do people want it to be, 'as expected of X' or something?

>>7763451
>Shit nigger,thats hard. Were they by chance talking about a, cute cat?
Well, they sure weren't talking about "fuzzy critter".
Kimo-ota shouldn't be "douchebag", that's all.

>>7764435
>The translations don't have to be literal. For example a literal translation of a Japanese idiom might make no sense in English. The point is keeping the meaning the same.
"Literal" may not have been the best term to use. It isn't going to be Engrish. They're both going to have adaptations, but the "literal" patch is just going to have a few specific changes, such as swearing and kimo-ota and a few other things.

>I took contention with the kimoota part, because you did not translate it or keep the same meaning, you simply change the insult.
I appreciate your input given in the other thread, but no one has been able to come up with a decent alternative so far that fulfills the requirements listed there. For now, I'm leaving it as it is, and for the literal patch maybe I'll go with "otaku" or something.

>I'm not sure about sasuga being more literal. What was it before? What do people want it to be, 'as expected of X' or something?
One sasuga I kept literal, the other I had to change to prevent it from sounding awkward. A couple people wanted the one I had to change to be "as expected of X". I'm opposed to this as it sounds horrible, but I don't mind releasing a separate patch if it means everyone can enjoy the game.

Changing Kimoota to whatever is fine, but it should have the same sort of implication. Calling someone a kimoota implies that they're disgusting, while calling someone a douchebag implies that they're a jerk. You could have them call him sick/gross/disgusting/dirty/revolting/revolting/a pedophile/nauseating or any combination of those words if you wanted. Hell, you could even use a different one every time. You can be pretty liberal while still keeping the original intent.

>>7765238
Requirements I listed from the other thread:
(a) The word needs to be something plausible that someone like Mai isn't familiar with.
(b) The word needs to be something a native English speaking audience is likely familiar with, so leaving "kimo ota" as-is, or inventing a word would not work.

this is a nice VN and the ergo netas really just serve as gags and jokes. even if the translation was literal there's still the issue that people may not get it.

if you want to be literal then keep the honorifics and whatever that helps explain the original meaning while explain the vague ones like the constant reference to shinikiss and president girlfriend

>>7765256
So your requirements are a word that someone wouldn't know, but also that someone would know.

Good to know that you know best and are totally infallible then!

>>7765256
Someone suggested neckbeard, I think that's a good one to use.

>>7765272
>So your requirements are a word that someone wouldn't know, but also that someone would know.
...Dude, read the post. It's not that hard.

>someone like Mai isn't familiar with.
>audience is likely familiar with
Naive Mai vs. audience. Makes sense to me.

>>7765272
Mai didn't know what kimo-ota meant, which isn't surprising considering her character. However, I'd assume all of the Japanese readers knew what it meant. That's where I was coming from.

>>7765303
it isn't surprising considering she's just a girl who's been in hospital for the better part of her life. she's just playing the role of the girl from eroge thanks to god.

>>7765286
Considering it.

>>7765310
No one read this unless they want the entire game spoiled.

Pustule, leper, asinine, degenerate, flotsom, inbreed, maggot, pisshead, cockup, noxious,etc.
Learn how to use the internet.

>>7765310
I hate me and I hate you so much.

>>7765268
I don't think there's really any point to explaining references. If people aren't familiar with what's being referenced being told it's a reference isn't going to make it funny. Real Imouto is better the more familiar you are with eroge (not just because of direct references) but luckily there are a few references that even many English readers will get, such as to the Blue series and to Osadai.

>translate 3000 lines from a generic moege
>make multiple trivial "what's your opinion?" threads on /jp/ to get attention
It's like /jp/ really is your personal blog.

>>7765357
This.

>>7765357
I did it to get opinions, which has been helpful so far.

>>7765357
>>7765363
Samefag. :3

>>7765452
>>7765475
samefag

>>7765475
>>7765477
Same person.

>>7765221
>but no one has been able to come up with a decent alternative so far that fulfills the requirements listed there. For now, I'm leaving it as it is, and for the literal patch maybe I'll go with "otaku" or something.
>but no one has been able to come up with a decent alternative so far
Really? If not suitable I would like to hear why.
Any reason as to why >>7762687 isn't suitable?

And you really should refrain from using "otaku", if anything, because it is easily translated.

>>7762702
>Possible reasons to become a fan translator:
>- Ego

sup moogy

Why do all VN translators turn out to be so terribly autistic, dammit.

Not the translator neither a native speaker, but looking for nerd synonyms i just found "dweeb". Is this word common?

>>7767837
not anymore, early 90s word

>>7767743
Because someone like Mai would know what disgusting and nerd mean, making it different and less funny.

I dunno about all of this maybe douchebag is going too far but Otaku or "disgusting nerd" just doesn't seem like it'll work well.

>>7773415
Maybe you should be more transparent about digging up your own thread off of page 14 to say nothing.

>>7773462

Err, I'm not that namefag any mod here can confirm that

>>7773524
I'm sure. You're just some innocent passerby anonymously saving an attention whore thread from deletion for the third or fourth time.

╔═══════════════ (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ✧══════════════╗
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Repost this if ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ you a kawaii ass motherfucker~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ who don’t need imoutos ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
╚═══════════════ (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ✧══════════════╝

>>7773553
I am going to bump this just to piss you off and make you feel even more insecure about who is posting behind the veil of anonymity

>>7773570
Like you have been already? Wow. That's a huge shock. I never expected an attention whore to attention whore.

>>7773581
Wow. Could you be any more, pointlessly, mad? If you really want people to stop bumping the thread you should shut up. Although, you are clearly too autistic for that.

>>7773769
This. Plus, I don't really mind if the thread dies anymore. I got the feedback I needed.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Look forward to v1.1

>>7773769
>You should just let me keep attention whoring. That'll make me stop!

>>7773769
> If you really want people to stop bumping the thread you should shut up.

Because that's sure worked so far, right?

>>7773794
>>7773796
I like this autism. Entertain me more.

>>7773796
Actually, even though sages don't bump the thread itself, it still increases the probability that the thread will get bumped.

It still adds something in the thread that anyone who comes across it or still has it open in a tab might feel the need to reply to. And the people who reply to the sages might not necessarily sage it themselves, and that's what bumps the thread.

So, sage or no sage, posting at all helps keeps the thread alive.

>>7773879
Then delete the thread you shithead.

>>7773885
because not minding if it dies is OBVIOUSLY the same as wanting it to die

derp

>>7773885
Your barely concealed frustration reminds me of a fat woman trying to hide her muffin top. Keep going.

>>7773894
What's the matter, kiddo? Mad that someone called you out on your attention whoring? You're the one unable to use sage who feels the need to make sure everybody can see your impotent whining. What're you going to do next, go running off to mommy about all the big kids picking on you?

>>7773901
You probably won't believe me but I only just started posting at >>7773570.

I just find you entertaining. Keep your cognitive dissonance going if that's what float's your boat though. I don't think that other guy ever replied to you.

>>7773894
That was my first post in this thread tho.

Take it easy /jp/.
Hide the thread.

>>7773955
suck my cock dude

>>7762796
Please do NOT continue to confuse me with one of our ex-clients.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation

Thank you.

----------
Cudder !MhMRSATORI
President and CEO
REchan IHG

Bumping for epic thread!!!

You thought the H-scenes were okay, but they were just long and dragged out.

Posting /a/ in /a/ thread.

The pleasure is all mine; “thanks for stopping by the route 66 refreshments” tenshi announced to her customer, leaving with one of her famed corn dogs!

You believe that is an excerpt of the flyable heart translation by cudder.

>>7774364
Mai had great H-scenes. I came substantial amounts.

age just in case

bump

>>7758085
>neckbeard
Now that's a funny one. But its true, neckbeard is for most part a term used for more disgusting/loathsome nerds nowadays.

Look how well ignoring it has worked. Still attention whoring. You're as bad as Cudder.

>>7784095

Err, I haven't posted since >>7773879