/jp/ - Otaku Culture

It does, in its context. But you don't care about it, of course.

>>7175054
Sorry, that doesn't make sense no matter what "context" it's in. I can tell you dropped all mathematical and scientific pursuits early and went with some kind of art major.

>>7175059
But that's not a math, but a metaphor, so yeah.

>>7175059
lol you are dumb.

>>7175059
it's correct. Just because it is "untrue" doesn't mean it's mathematical incorrect.

>>7175088
Didn't you go to bed?

>>7175059
Actually, even mathematically speaking there's an infinite number of possible contexts.
Suppose these are logical functions.
X=man, sex=0
Y=woman, sex=0
X+Y, sex>0

>>7175099

7 hours or so, yes.

>>7175104
How come Y is a woman and not a hand?

>>7175112
Well, we are in a realm of fiction, so it's acceptable.

>>7175104

Stop trying to go around it. If X is nothing, and Y is nothing, and X and Y put together is still Nothing.
Nothing with Nothing does not make something. Even if you have lots of it. I shouldn't have even said 'lots', as there's no 'lot' to have

X=0
Y=0
X+Y=X+Y
(X+Y)/(X+Y)=(X+Y)/(X+Y)
(X+Y)/(X+Y)=1
Y=0
(X+0)/(X+Y)=1
X/(X+Y)=1
X=0
0/(X+Y)=1
0=1
X=0=1
1+0>0
X+Y>0

QED

>>7175132
I see you divided by zero there.

>>7175116
Do you even know what a logical function is?

What was the context of the statement again?

>>7175116

Actually, according to physics, 0 times infinity = small amount.

This thread is now about the mass of a photon in motion

>>7175145
Beatrice, the fickle witch who committed a meaningless, worthless serial murder.
Even the epitaph's riddle, which that witch made into a condition to suspend the serial murders...is meaningless, immaterial.
And, ......she's thrusting this meaningless, immaterial thing in front of my face.
......What is it......that you want from me...?
......Or else, what is it that you want to give me......?
Both X and Y.
Both the epitaph murders and the epitaph's riddle mean nothing to Beato.
X=Y=0.
However, since she's thrusting that in front of me......it must......have some meaning.
She showed us the scales representing 'if you don't solve the epitaph, I'll carry out the epitaph murders'.
In other words, neither the epitaph murders nor the epitaph's riddle have any significance by themselves.
However, it becomes meaningful when she puts both halves on the scales and thrusts it out before us.........no, before me.

>>7175050
0 and 1 are just an abstract human concept, and can mean anything you want them to mean.

1 is 0.999999... so 0 may as well be 0.0000...

Philosphy can give you any number of logical outcomes to this mathemetical puzzle.

I suggest you don't worry about it, and proceed to finish your VN.

Pic related. You think he cares about 0s or 1s?

>>7175145
A scale with meaningless, weightless things on both sides.
However, it has weight itself...and gives the rest meaning.
"......It's almost like......playing. Like kids playing rock, paper, scissors."
Rock, paper, scissors is an extremely familiar method to randomly determine a winner and a loser.

You sometimes bet some sort of privilege on the outcome, ......but kids often do rock, paper, scissors just to play, without betting anything in particular.
Unless you bet something, you have nothing to gain or lose except happiness and frustration.
In other words, the two sides of the scale, both winning and losing, are immaterial.

However, the very act of seeing which way it will tip...is the reason kids play rock, paper, scissors.
After all, the kids are enjoying the communication that surrounds the game, ......and they aren't purely interested in the value of winning or losing.

They aren't overly concerned about who wins and who loses......
"That would mean that it doesn't matter to Beato......whether the epitaph murders succeed or not. ......It almost feels like she's just enjoying the process."

>>7175148
Photons do not have a rest mass because they can never go below the speed of light. So their rest mass is not 0, they just dont have a rest mass because they are always moving at lightspeed

>>7175185
The speed of light isn't constant. Can't light be 0 at an event horizon?

>>7175185

Photons are affected by gravity, so don't they technically have to move just below light speed?

Where does their mass come from anyway, photons are waves.

>>7175199
Actually, it is.

>>7175207
Light can travel very slowly through certain objects, hence why it isn't constant.

>>7175133
Read again.

>>7175214
The speed of light in a vacuum is constant. That's all that anyone ever means when they say that whether they realize it or not.

>>7175199
>>7175204
The speed of light is always constant, gravity and other things only change the observed wavelenght
Photons are neither particles nor waves, they are wave/particles

>>7175214
It travels slowly because photons are absorbed and then re-emitted by atoms, which takes time, but the speed of photons is always c

>>7175220
Scientists have managed to slow down light so much that if it were a car on a highway, it could get a ticket for not getting over to the right-hand lane.

The speed of light is normally about 186,000 miles per second, or fast enough to go around the world seven times in the wink of eye.

Scientists succeeded in slowing it down to 38 mph.

They did this by shooting a laser through extremely cold sodium atoms, which worked like “optical molasses” to slow the light down.

The experiment doesn’t invent any new physics. When light passes through a material such as water or glass, it slows down a bit as the photons interact with the surrounding molecules. The new result merely set the world record for slowest light.

>>7175234
How can photons interact with anything if they have no mass? No-mass faggot status: TOLD.

>>7175234
see>>7175227

>>7175238

They only have no mass if they stop moving.

They never get to stop moving.

>>7175260
Then how can you say they have no mass if they can't stop moving?

How can you beleive in theoretical particle physics if it's just a theorem (a geuss)?

>>7175284
I'm not the anon you're responding to, but theorem and guess don't even have similar meanings.

>>7175288
he's trolling

>>7175284
>How can you beleive in theoretical particle physics if it's just a theorem (a geuss)?
Because I have any jon I want, 400k starting.

>>7175284
Any theory is a guess, but if it works and helps create nice things, who cares? And if you want to doubt it, propose a better one, that will work better in practice.

>>7175293
Isn't the original copypasta "theory"? Theorem means it's proven.

>>7175304
Theorem is the plural of theory. Yes I was the guy who posted it. Yes it was copypasta. No it wasn't trolling.

>>7175318
>Theorem is the plural of theory.
What? No.

>>7175318
No, the plural of theory is theories.

Theorem is a different word.

>>7175323
>In mathematics, a theorem is a statement that has been proven on the basis of previously established statements, such as other theorems, and previously accepted statements, such as axioms

>In traditional logic, an axiom or postulate is a proposition that is not proved or demonstrated but considered to be either self-evident

>truth based on a truth based on a geuss

Not trolling, but theorem isn't 100% proven. It's based on something which is based on something that is based on a presumption.

>>7175345
Guess doesn't mean the same thing as axiom either.

>>7175345
Because you have to at least trust your senses and accept obvious things. Without that any reasoning and cognition will be impossible.

>>7175318
Theorem is usually only used in mathematics where things can be proven true and after being proved a math theorem can never be proven false.
A scientific theory on the other hand makes predictions about the natural world and can be proven false at any time by an observation, so it can never be 100% true even if it predicts everything perfectly because any observation that disagrees with the theory proves it false.

>>7175358
>In traditional logic, an axiom or postulate is a proposition that is not proved or demonstrated but considered to be either self-evident

>not proved or demonstrated

>>7175345
Dude, there is no 100% proven.
It's always based on a presumption. Everything is.

>>7175376

There is no way to prove an axiom, except that if it wasn't true, everything would be crazy and nothing would have meaning.

An axiom is something like "A equals A".

In mathematics, axioms form the rules of math. Everything else is just old men playing a game based on those rules. And that game is our universe.

>>7175391

Mathematical proof.
1 + 1 = 2 (true)
1 + 1 = 3 (false)

>>7175369
Bitches don't know about Gödel's incompleteness theorems.

>>7175369
No, the difference between a theorem and a theory is that you can prove a theorem to be true. For a theory, you can only gather evidence that suggests it's true, you can never directly demonstrate that it is fact.

So theorem = fact
Theory = (geuss)?

>>7175453
A theory is something for which there is no proof for or against, but for which there is evidence.

Once again that is not the same thing as a guess.

>>7175464
No, a theory is a guess. You don't have to have evidence to come up with a theory. How much evidence a theory has is another factor entirely, but an important one.

Okay, at this point...


>>>/sci/

>>7175492
But discussing the premises and what a theory is is Umineko related.

I thought you guys were NEETs... Why do you know so much about mathematics/physics?

>>7175504
You can explain the mathematics people with philosophy major dropouts who focused on logic theory.

The physics ones, I don't know. Self-taught? The internet is a pretty good source of information.

>>7175504
We take an interest in things and decide to learn about them.

Just like everyone else.

>>7175471

A theory is at least an educated guess that's been attempted to be disproven. Many many times, if you want to get any amount of respect in the scientific community. None of that "3 times" elementary school shit, we mean "200 times is a good start".

No attempts to be disproven = Hypothesis, not theory.

>>7175453
>can prove a theorem to be true
>theorem is based on a premise that isn't demonstrated or could be false

So thoerems are eleborate geusses with presumptions as their foundations.

>>7175504
Good school and university drop-out.

>>7175504
Hikki=/=NEET

Also, this is Otaku General now, not Hikki/NEET General.

>>7175513
Or actual Mathematics majors.
More accurately, minor.

>>7175517
From what source, though?

>>7175529
For the last time axiom doesn't mean guess.

Axioms are the building blocks for all other logic, they can't be proven correct because we have nothing else more fundamental to demonstrate them with.

Numbers being equal to themselves is an axiom. Does it sound like a guess to you?

>>7175545
Some of us go to university, college or whatever you want to call it. Some of us read books or use the internet. Some of us watch tv and actually learn from it instead of going "WOW physics is confusing" like most people.

x=0
y=0
1=.999999999999999...

>>7175529
You don't get what these axioms are. They're the groundworks of mathematics. Basically, people have to accept the definitions of what you're saying for you to express anything to them as proof. You wouldn't call stuff like the workings of the number system in use guesses.

It's not about getting theories and then proving things to be true based on those theories. Those would be nothing but theories themselves. Theorems are proofs based on other theorems and axioms, which are like theorems but without any further things they are based on. They just have to be accepted to proceed, there is no way of working without accepting them. Otherwise, you can have 1 =2 all you like.

>>7175504
You kidding? This thread proves we don't know anything about either.

>>7175560
a = a is not an axiom, it's a hipster statement.

Axiom - something not proved or demonstrated but taken to be true/obvious.

GUYS. Shut up. This question makes total sense in the programming universe, where inequalities are actually operators that return booleans.

(0+0 > 0) = 0

>>7175578
Much more than the average man, at least.

It's magic.
I don't have to explain shit.

>>7175504
I was pretty shocked at first, too. I found it bizarre that a board called "Otaku Culture" would house some of the site's most intellectual members. Go figure.

>>7175584

Actually it's just a fucking metaphor.

Example:
A long stick to a demon means nothing.
A short stick to a demon means nothing.
A short stick laid over a long stick to form a cross, to a demon, means an impassable barrier.
0 + 0 = >0.
Not mathematically, but metaphorically.

>>7175599
You're kidding right?

We don't go outside, play sports, party, drink or whatever.

We just sit around and think.

>>7175613
Some people here are pretty stupid despite this. I'm just sayin'...

>>7175613
And masturbate over dolls and female underwear.

>>7175606
That doesn't work, because the two sticks individually should have some meaning to the demon, because they have the potential to be used in that manner.

>>7175658

Let meaning be f(x), where X is the level of correlation with the cross pattern. X is determined by the difference between the angle of long stick AB and short stick CD, which is represented by θ. As θ approaches 0, X becomes 1, but the relation is nonlinear, assuming demons have polarizing neurons as their operating basis.

>>7175648
>over dolls and female underwear
You mean IN female underwear.

>>7175679
U MENA HAX MY ANUS

It should be

x=0
y=0
f(x,y)>0

>>7175694
NO!

This has nothing to do with math and everything to do with language. See that "should be"? He's describing a situation which he experiences to be true, but logically understands as false. Had he said "it is like this", it would make no logical sense - with "should" it's perfectly valid, since he recognizes that the values don't correspond with the real world.

I guarantee you Ryukishi did not think this through as thoroughly as you people are.

>>7175148

By definition, zero does not have any value at all.
No matter how many of it you have, even if it's infinite, you'll never get past zero.
You're getting some bullshit sources.

>>7175725
Unless you can deny it in red, there's a chance that he did.

>>7175742
I will use blue writing now:

It doesn't matter, continue playing your VN.

>>7175739
Nah. It's quite possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L'H%C3%B4pital's_rule

>>7175742
Even if you deny it in red there's a chance that he did.

You see, R07 is just a character the real man behind the moniker plays. That character didn't think it through, since he's just a name, but the one playing him did.

>>7175436
You just went full retard.
There are already presumtions in that.

And that wasn't a mathematical proof either.

>>7175752
> * Here is an example involving the sinc function and the indeterminate form 0⁄0:

>0⁄0
It's wrong.

I said it before, and I'll repeat it again. No matter how many zeros you have, you'll never progress past zero. After all, you must have something greater than zero to progress.

>>7175772
0 doesn't exist. There is no such thing as a vacuum or 'nothing' because something always exists, so 0 is just 0.0000 recurring, for infinity with a 1 at the end because true 0 cannot exist.

>>7175785
>infinity with a 1 at the end
oh for god's sake

>>7175791
Get out, retarded tripfag. If you aren't going to discuss it, then stop posting.

>>7175785
What do you get when you subtract x from x?

Also 0.0 recurring with 1 at the end doesn't exist.

>>7175785

Explain the empty space between photons,each atom, and the empty space within each atom. Did you know that atoms themselves are 99% empty space? If the nucleus of an atom were the size of a quarter, the electrons would be rotating about a football field length.

Atoms themselves also never touch, even in friction, or there'd be some sort of nuclear fission.
You don't know what you're talking about.

>>7175584
>>7175584
You ``ＦＡＧＧＯＴＳ''．
0.00000000000...1 = 0
>>7175584
>>7175584

>>7175797
What do you get when 1? 0.9999999999.

True 0 cannot exist. The same principal that was discussed earlier, when 0 x infinity gives a small amount.

>>7175785
also,
>infinity with a one at the end

By definition, if there are infinite recurring zeros, there would be no end, so that 1 wouldn't exist. You don't grasp the meaning of infinity.

>>7175785
>infinity with a 1 at the end
I assume you mean 0 approaching 1, but that was still retarded.

>>7175801
Yes, it's the electromagnetic forces that produce friction.

>>7175807
Filtered.

So many retarded tripcunts.

>>7175810
So numbers aren't equal to themselves now?

Congratulations, you broke the universe.

Here's a math lesson for all you bakas.

1/3 = 0.333333...
2/3 = 0.66666...7
3/3 = 0.99999... = 1

>>7175816
You're the retard.
At least try to think.
If there are recurring zeros forever, where's that 1 you're talking about? There's simply no room. Those zeros go on forever.

>>7175808
I simply meant a slight amount more than '0' but which cannot be measured because of philosophy/how many zeros there are after the decimal and how small it is, I used a 1 because it was the smallest number to put after the 000. Whatever you call it, that's what I meant.

>>7175825
It's funny because he also brought up 0.99... himself. If he can't grasp infinity, you'd think he would say there was an eventual 9 that ended the series and so 0.99.. =/= 1.

>>7175826
see
>>7175825

>>7175823
There's nobody in this thread that isn't aware of that already. This debate is basically about whether or not 0 exists.

Never mind that the other side thinks in the natural sense and the other in logical.

>>7175826
Mathematics is abstract, absolute zero can and does exist. That's why you can't divide by zero. If it wasn't absolute zero, dividing 0 by 0 would be no problem. You'd get a number slightly larger than this false zero and could repeat the process to infinity.

>>7175837
I can't - he's filtered. I presume it's something stupid and attention seeking, and/or condescending to someone's post.

>>7175837
Don't bother. I want him to keep me filtered. I don't like talking to autists

>>7175831
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0.999......

>>7175818
Exactly, in the Universe, according to whatever theory, when all stars die and galaxies have expanded and all matter has 'died' and broke apart and all that's left is a sea of photons or whatever, there is still something that exists, there isn't 0 or nothing, there is still a void and something to fill it.

If nothingness can't exist, then why should a 0?

>>7175844
Assuming he accepts that numbers equal themselves then this "false" zero over itself would be the same as any number over itself - 1.

>>7175860
I don't think you quite grasped the context of my post.

>>7175823

1/3 = 0.333333...
1/3 × 3 = 0.999999...
0.999999... = 3/3 = 1

Why don't you guys try to turn the chessboard over ?

>>7175801
Actually, that space isn't empty, but filled with virtual particles.

>>7175880
Lol you're replying to an angry autistic tripfag who's buttdevastated and clearly wrong every time he posts. Save yourself the effort.

>>7175844
This. If you can't divide by zero, then zero isn't a number but the lack of one, and vice versa.

>>7175861
I will ask again, subtract x from x. What do you get?

>>7175841
God, you sound like a child. Not listening la la la~

>>7175861
>If nothingness can't exist, then why should a 0?
Because it can be thought of. It's like you're asking that if a perfect circle can't exist, then why should pi?

0 doesn't exist, only a lack of numbers exists.

>>7175890
0/10 too obvious

>>7175880
>virtual

There's a problem with that.

>>7175861

>Exactly, in the Universe, according to whatever theory, when all stars die and galaxies have expanded and all matter has 'died' and broke apart and all that's left is a sea of photons or whatever, there is still something that exists, there isn't 0 or nothing, there is still a void and something to fill it.

Nuh uh, boy. There is nothing filling it.
The only thing that tells you the void "exists" is how you measure it. All that exists in the void will be distance, the distance between one photon and another.
True, absolute nothingness will exist between these two photons.
The only way to know it is there is because this nothing must exist between these two photons, else the two photons would be beside each other.

Q.E.D. nothing will exist.
(In the context that "nothing itself" will become existent, not the context of "nothing exists".)

>>7175897
0, which is just true for most practical purposes. In reality it's impossible to take the entire x away since true nothingness does not exist so there's a very small amount renaming, the single one at the end of the 0.0000000.

>>7175584
This guy has it right on the head.

FUCKTHISTHREADIMOUTTAHERE.JPG

>>7175912
Goddamnit I give up.

>>7175907
>There's a problem with that.
You realize that they are invented not just for fun, right?

>>7175897
You get a space where X existed, then was removed.

>>7175901
A giant purple unicorn sucking my cock exists because it can be thought of.

Concepts, philosphy > science, etc.

Put your trip back on, autist.

>>7175909
>skipread your text
>QED at the end
>no need to go back to the top to read properly

>proving that something exists at the death of the universe
>QED

Get a trip so I can filter you.

>>7175926

If they exist for a limited time, there must be a time when they don't exist. When they don't, there's nothing. You're backing into a corner.

>>7175926
>wastingyourbreathonabuttdevastedautist.jpg

>>7175938
Who said they exist or don't exist all at once? When some don't, others do.

Been a while since /jp/ was so shitty.

>>7175947
>talking to a tripfag

>>7175923
>A giant purple unicorn sucking my cock exists because it can be thought of.
Herp derp. So you think abstract things simply don't exist it all, as opposed to them existing as ideas? How materialistic can you even get? What do you think thoughts are?

Oh and I haven't had my trip on in a year or two.

>>7176007
>exist it all
Stopped reading there. Next time you try to be an internet superhero, be able to speak properly. Superman didn't have a lisp, did he? No.

>>7176012
I don't know whether you're trying to be smart or as dense as possible, equating a typo with a speech impediment. Although if you're, for example, blind and have to rely on speech synthesizers to properly browse 4chan, I understand that over time it may become difficult to remember the difference between spoken words and written text. At any rate, please come up with something more interesting next time, you're slipping badly.

>>7175785
Fucking wrong wrong wrong and also 1 can't be at the end of infinity .00000... 1 can not even be constructed. and by the way .99999... repeating really does equal 1.

Don't believe me? Rigorously construct the real number line in such a way that it has all the properties we demand of the real number line but the infinite sum 9/10 + 9/100 + 9/1000 +... doesn't sum to 1 and then we can talk.

Fucking idiots making broad statements about when they can't even list the axioms of set theory and they couldn't tell the axiom of choice from their ass.

Read a god damn book on analysis sometime jesus christ.

Look at it this way: here's you with almost no math experience or advanced knowledge making a statement. Here's the entire mathematical body over the last 200 years, some of the greatest minds ever to walk the Earth, who devoted their entire lives to the study of numbers, and they ALL say you're fucking retarded.

>>7176102
Don't scientists know the last digit of pi? Pi is an infinite number.

>>7176566
pi does not have a last digit, it is infinite. The more you calculate it's value the more digits you come up with

>>7176571
I'm sure there was a guy on TV not long back, a maths prof. talking about certain numbers, and there was one huge number that wasn't calculated yet, and he said the number has to end in 4 (I think) (for some reason I don't recall). Any math guys here may be able to elaborate further, but I can't.

>>7176577
Oh, so you came up with the idea that scientists know the last digit of pi based on the fact that you think you saw some guy on tv saying that certain numbers end in 4?

>>7176577
>>7176566
Pi doesn't have a last digit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindemann%E2%80%93Weierstrass_theorem

>>7176583
Oh so you can't add anything to the discussion except mock someone. >>>/b/

>>7176617
That may be the case, but there was a certain number he insisted had a specific last digit, I wasn't sure if it was pi or not.

>>7176714
It can't have been pi, but I would be interested to hear about it if you remember what it was,

Just like infinity isn't a number, and 0.00000...1 is not a number either. Infinity does not have an end and if you try to count to it starting from zero, you'll be counting forever. It's the same reason why 0.0000...1 isn't a number. It's 1/infinity. It is not zero, and it can never be zero. Take a slice of cake, and cut it in half. How many times must you slice the cake in half before you have absolutely no cake at all? No matter how many times you slice it in half, there will always be that other half you end up with that ends up being your new whole. That's why the answer (seemingly) is infinity- because you can cut it up forever. The truth is, there is no answer. It's undefined. Just like division by zero. How much nothing must you get to get something? No matter how much of it you have, all of it will still add up to nothing. Same with 0.0000...1. If the zeros increment forever, there's no room for that 1 at the end, because there's no end to put it in. That's why it's not a number.
Half this stuff is just in common sense.

And for all the autistic shitposters that call me out- I don't use a tripcode to get attention. I got a tripcode because I can't filter out the anonymous shitposters here on /jp/, so I have you do all of the work for me and filter me so I don't have to deal with you faggots. Yes, this tripcode's for you, not me.
For the guys who have common sense and agree with me, or those who can still see this post- congradulations. You've figured out what the trip is for, or you're not one of the retarded shitposters I'm talking about.

>>7177171
Filtered.

Fucking shitposting attention-seeker.

>>7177181

Thanks, one less shitposter to deal with.

this debate again, I like to think of it as team algebra vs team calculus

>>7177248
More like team understanding of maths versus team baseless assumption.

>>7177261
More like team general science and philosophy vs. team shitposting.

Nothing doesn't exist. Deal with it.

There is only one team and that is Team Idiot. As in, you're all idiots.

>>7177284
So magic exists after all?

>>7177284
If zero doesn't exist then numbers can't be equal to themselves.