/jp/ - Otaku Culture

umineko

You can't be serious.

>>7049693
Obviously, but I meant from the image.

inganock by long shot

Type-Moon's best work vs. Disney furry shit

You decide

The one translated by the god tier translator

Play and find out

>>7049709
Already did, I want to know what /jp/ thinks.

>>7049716
/jp/ is not a monolithical entity with one opinion abotu something, get your own brain

>>7049722
No shit, if you didn't know what I meant you are a colossal retard.

If someone really thinks Tsukihime is objectively speaking in the same tier as Inganock, they must have really bad taste...

Tsukihime has been the only VN which I've cleared multiple times for every path.
It's pointless trying to choose a superior VN though, as it falls to opinion in the end, and /jp/ is not one person.

Tsukihime without a doubt because the writer isn't a girl

>>7049743
Your taste is shit, I'm just saying.

>>7049707
Tsukihime then? Because Ixrec was still very inexperienced when he did Inganock, and he also rushed it faster than he should have done.
It is full of sentences, that although aren't gramatically incorrect in english or anythning, but completely misses the point of what is actually being said.
There were even a handful of spots that said almost the exact opposite of what was happening.

But yeah, because it looked like the english made sense, and cause /jp/ don't read novels in Japanese, barely any complained or even knew that was the case.
And since then he has progressed quite some bit, so it isn't much of a point to complain anymore.
But Inganock, was still full of errors.

>>7049752
>And since then he has progressed quite some bit
you should see his MLA scripts with editing on the side done by Makoto, the mistakes are not even funny
it's hilarious that he gets worshipped as the best fan translator, he's the equivalent of bad speedsubbing

Ixrec raped the script. Errors aside, the translation of the style Sakurai uses was ass and could have been done a lot better, or just don't do it, the style is awful to translate.

>>7049774
Well ok, sure. I just wanted to make a point of him having progressed, because he have. I am aware most of the scripts are still jokes however, but it seems he isn't rushing things just as much as he used to, at least.

>>7049774
I really liked Makoto's translation of Kikokugai. He seems to be pretty good.

Ixrec on the other hand may not be perfect, but at least he gets stuff done.

I highly doubt Ixrec's scripts for MLA are a joke. I mean, I'm sure you could find some mistakes but when you're dealing with such a huge volume of text, you're bound to slip up in places

>>7049804
yeah, what I saying is that Makoto was pointing out all of Ixrec's mistakes, and they were really big stuff, like switching subject and object of an action around.
What gets me is that it's obvious from the translation errors that he doesn't even understand completely the text he reads.
Translation of literary works should be something you do only after mastering a language, not as homework.

>>7049834
True that. I suppose most people who are interested in otaku culture don't have the motivation to really master Japanese.

Also I feel like there are a lot of people who are in the VN scene for attention, so they don't care about the actual quality and value of their work as much as about the popularity they get from involving themselves with the scene. I'm not saying this is the case with Ixrec though.

TakaJun may possibly not be the best English speaker around, but at least he very good at Japanese.
Ixrec on the other hand may be proficient in the ways of English, but his Japanese is obviously flawed.

If you were to edit for TakaJun, you may become completely lost at some parts due to some sentences possibly not making much sense, but that really isn't that big of a deal even though it might become tedious if it happens all too often. But the thing is, because TakaJun is at least very good at Japanese, then you can count on him having a really good idea of what is actually being said, and while he may not be the best English speaker around, he can still converse in English, so if you can find the time to actually discuss some parts of the scripts with him of which you don't quite understand, you can easily fix any possibly messed up English, while getting a good grasp on what was being said in Japanese.

With Ixrec however, you are left with sentences that although might not strike you as completely wrong in English, you really can't trust his Japanese, and thus you really should make a translation attempt yourself, compare it to his, and discuss it with him, and if not, lots of things that should have been edited slips through.

Given how you can still work out everything easily with TakaJun as he actually understands what he is translating, I would say he is without doubt the better translator.
But I guess it is still very nice that Ixrec is trying.

Shut the fuck up about translations. This is a thread about the content itself.

Hard to say. The first half of Inganock was excellent while the latter half was generic garbage. Tsukihime had a lot of good about it but I don't know if I could term it "excellent". I'd probably go with Tsukihime because of the parts near the end.

Welcome to the own zone.

>>7051027
I wish the guys would wear shoes in naruto. I can't stand looking at guy's feet.

>>7049834
The ironic thing is that Ixrec makes a big deal about not translating anything until you truly master the language all the time on the Ammy forums. Although I still appreciate the work he's done thus far.

ITT fat fucks too lazy to learn japanese themselves, whining about a few mistakes they were told about by another person.

God Tier translators:
Ryuusoul (Tsukihime, Utawaremono, some of KT)

Top Tier:
Makoto (Kikokugai, Saya no Uta, Jouka no Monshou, Hanachirasu, Demonbane Al route)
gp32 (Planetarian, True Remembrance, Wind, Narcissu, and shitload of other things)

Good Tier:
TakaJun (Majikoi, Fate/stay night, minor Tsukihime, Wanko, Swan Song, Sengoku Rance)
Avenger (Sharin no Kuni, last part of G Senjou)
Ixrec (MOON, Cross+Channel, Sekien no Inganock, Muv-Luv)

TakaJun's main problem is that editors don't know how to word the sentences he puts out. He slowly warps his editors minds of the English language.

Makoto's translations are easily very good but comes with the price that it reads very boringly. If he could at least make it more interesting to read he'd be in god tier.

Ixrec's points have already been said. He's still in college learning the language.

Best translation was CLANNAD by far.

>>7051124
what about astcd2?

Both are good but Tsukihime is better.

>>7051130

>>7051124
>God Tier translators:
>Ryuusoul (Tsukihime
Stopped reading. You can't be serious.

BUMP for ixrec's shitty translations

Durr hurr opinions thread.

That's why you fags should just learn moon already

>>7051124
Where is gipface or moogy?

>>7052666
>moogy

We're discussing actual translators here, not trolls who claim they're translators so they can destroy projects.

For OP's original question, Inganock has far better production values and a gazillion times more original story and setting (in Tsukihime, three of the routes are actually ripoffs from some book). Other than being a huge nasutard or having personal bias because Tsukihime was babby's first VN for you, I don't see why anyone would prefer Tsukihime over Inganock.

>>7052670
>ripoffs from some book
Kizuato is a visual novel as well

Inganock rhymes with cock.

They are both 8/10 material.
Tsukihime gets point for being a 11 years old doujin, seriously it's pretty impressive for something made by 2 guys.
It has a lot of flaws but the story, characters and setting are pretty impressive for its time.

Inganock is the best "what a beautiful..." game but it suffers from the same problems you'll see in every Sakurai games.

>>7052670
>has far better production values and a gazillion times more original story and setting
I will give you the production values. We have to be serious here, you are comparing a commercial game compare to a doujin.
Setting is about equal. Nasuverse setting is actually quite good if you can see past the powerlevel in a world of apostle and magus.
You cant be serious if you think the story in Ignanock is better. Monster of the chapter and I will lift my right hand to vaporize you. Not to mention the repeated text of climbing golden stair and tick tock tick tock.
The monster/creature or whatever? They die so fast before you can even feel for them.
I wont call Ignanock shit but it is really really average. Not sure why so many cream their pant over it. Baby first furry maybe?

>>7052680
Sakurai's games are the epitome of Style over Substance.
And some people are happy just looking at the surface of things.

>>7052680
Forgot to say that I also hate the conversation mini games. Whoever that thought of that need to be shot. I dont need some shitty random conversation order and load of save scumming to get all the important conversations and make it possible for me to use my right hand.

>>7052687
This was my biggest gripe with Inganock. I know they were aiming for trying something original instead of choices like most other games but it was still a retarded system.

>>7052683
How are they without substance? I mean, you can tell me they aren't realistically gritty and they suffer from over-idealization/over-poeticism, but saying they are "all surface" is too much, surely?

>>7052699
Everything has substance, they just don't have much.

>>7052680
>you are comparing a commercial game compare to a doujin
So we should rate Tsukihime higher because it was made by two guys and not a company? Of course Nasu's and Takeuchi's feat was admirable, but that you admire the makers for their effort doesn't make the visuals and so on any better. Tsukihime's history cute and it enables you to dream about accomplishing something similar one day, but it seems silly to me that you say "X should be rated higher because its makers were hobbyists." Things should be rated on the basis of their actual worth, not whether you sympathise with their history.

Pic related. Those goddamn hands!

>>7052680
I enjoyed how you would always progress after killing a creature. The repeated text is only a small bit so it didn't bother me too much. The music is great and also dat loli.

I will agree with you on the conversation mini games though. That was damn annoying.

>tsukihime
>good

>>7052793
Especially in western fandom, I'd say it's one of the most overrated VNs out there.

>>7052801
It's not as overrated as say FSN, Umineko or Ever17 though

>>7052722
Sorry if you didnt get my point.
To use a game analogy, I will pick good gameplay, plot and immersion with shit graphic over shit gameplay, plot and immersion with crysis level graphic.

>>7052773
I have yet to see an argument on why Nigacock is superior to Tsukihime besides twilight and shounen powerlevel.
Nigacock fight scenes are infinitely worse with I take out my right hand and you die.

I cant wait for Tsukihime remake, so you fags complaining about shit arts can shut up.

>>7052858
Tsukihime is charming but it has a lot of obvious big flaws.
Like the fact that they spend like half of each routes repeating stuff you already know.

>>7052858

>Tsukihime remake

hehehehehehehe

>>7052885
You didn't use skip read text?
Better than getting game over whenever you choose something that isnt your right hand. I dont even know why that choice is there.

>>7052914
I don't mean the repeated text, that shit happen in every eroge ever.
I mean the content of the routes overlaps too much.
For example they try to build suspense over the identity of the killer in Hisui's route, too bad it was revealed in every routes you read before.
Shit like this happen a lot in Tsukihime.

>>7052858
Please elaborate where you found depth in Tsukihime's story. It seems to me there is very little.

Also, production values don't mean just graphics.

>>7052914
skipping text at all means the text has problems. Good games don't need skipping (yes, this goes for Inganock too before you retort with that).
And the whole point of the game is not giving up and keep reaching towards other people. Making you choose is supposed to make you "involved", even if the outcome's obvious. The feelings of the main character doing something by himself and doing something because you chose it are completely different.

>>7052922
Yeah, it almost seems like Nasu was trying to make 5 self-contained stories rather than a branching story. It's possible he didn't have a firm understanding of the medium at the time.

>>7052922
>For example they try to build suspense over the identity of the killer in Hisui's route, too bad it was revealed in every routes you read before.
But you are supposed to immerse yourself and try to perceive things from the protagonist's point of view. The fact that he didn't know still matters, it was never really one of those detective novels.

But although I actually really liked Inganock, I can't say it did this any better.
As mentioned before, it does a great job with style, even though it is over substance.
But, when I read it, and I felt the resolution of the fifth monster was almost exactly like the resolution of the fourth, who in turn wasn't all that different from the third, it starts to feel kind of pale even though they have pasted new colours onto everything. I still loved it however, the setting was great and it had some good characters.

Tsukihime on the other hand, even though you could easily argue that the different routes touches on many of the same themes, they still played out very differently from eachother.

>>7053002
>But you are supposed to immerse yourself
No, the writer is supposed to immerse you. Making the work enjoyable is not the audience's responsibility.

About the fighting scenes of Inganock: although they were repetitive and boring, I think they're more of a structural element, providing a closing to each chapter, and the real worth of the story was in the parts between the fights. Saying Tsukihime is better because it has better fight scenes is like saying Custom Maid 3D is a better game than Cross Channel because the ero is better.

>>7053001
>>7052922
I dont see why having separate routes that goes differently because of your decisions are bad.
At least it is consistent this way unless you prefer some retarded plot hole inconsistency logic like in G Senjou where every other routes besides Haru mean having the MC being Maou.

Ignanock just has 1 linear route and it doesnt even compare to the Tsukihime true end. I cried manly tears when this came up. When I finished Ignanock, I just went "Oh thats it?".

>>7053022
It's a question of good compositions.
Most well written eroge manage to do it well
Tsukihime is something like 3mb of text simply because there is too much repeated content.

>>7053022
>I dont see why having separate routes that goes differently because of your decisions are bad.
Can someone decipher this for me?

Also thanks for using the spoiler tag with G-Senjou, as someone who has yet to play it, I'm grateful for you taking everyone into consideration.

>>7053021
>No, the writer is supposed to immerse you. Making the work enjoyable is not the audience's responsibility.
Sure, agreed. My point was basically that if you don't let yourself get immersed, you are doing it wrong. Even if a work is written in a good way, there are people who tend to resist.

But this is yet again a thing about taste and preferences and all that.
Tsukihime obviously did a great job at immersing some people.
Likewise could most certainly be said about Inganock.

Also, I wasn't really trying to make a point about the fight scenes of netiher at all.
And yes I agree the most "important" parts of Inganock were between the monster things.
I just wanted to make a point of, that as soon as they were trying to find/call the monster, you basically already knew what was going to happen from that point forward until the end of the chapter.

Anyone else misses 2008's /jp/, when a decent potion of the userbase diligently used spoiler tags effectively?

>>7053021
>repetitive and boring
It is basically this.
Ignanock is boring because you mostly know what will happen when you played. Each chapter they will intro a new char that will basically be the badguy. Then after some plot advancement you know you will kill the said character after the minigame conversation.
There is no wow or surprise factor. It feels too scripted and robotic, just like a typical disney saturday cartoon with villain of the week.

What this thread isn't about.