/jp/ - Otaku Culture

They just make it all up.

Shiki cannot kill servants.

You forgot Fate/Zero Fate/extra, Fate/hollow ataraxia, Melty Blood, Kagetsu Tohya, Kara no Kyōkai, and CANAAN.

>>6976814
Half that shit isn't translated and most have nothing to do with the power level shit they were talking about in F/SN and Tsukihime

Because Type Moon works are like Tolkien works. TM fans sometimes talk about obscure things that are barely even hinted in the original works.

>>6976824
Doesn't seem like you can become a Type-Moon nerd.
Sorry.

>>6976824

All the games are somehow relevant. Especially when Arc vs X comes up.
As for powerlevels, it's just like Touhou canon.
Many bits are in complementary books, interviews, comments and so on.

>>6976834
That's what people think who only read the main work of the franchise.

>>6976824
Check the fuyuki wiki; which is the best English TM site. Also, don't forget that a lot of people can read moonrunes (me included), and are always searching for new info on side materials and Nasu's interviews. Also, you should check Jonnobi if you can read Japanese, which is IMO the best TM site ever, where all the relevant info is stored.

>>6976862
But there's no Nasu equivalent to the Silmarillion.

>>6976864
Shit you Type-Moon fags are pathetic.

The extra information is good but Primate Murder seems to be too OP, ignoring the Archetypes, that is.

>>6976799
Nasu said so about all of it, don't bother him about it

Can someone post a list of a good order to play Type-Moon games?
I played F/SN, Tsukihime, played Melty blood: Act Cadenza and watched Kara no Kyoukai.

>>6976904
KnK, Tsukihime, Kagetsu Tohya, Melty Blood, Fate/Stay Night, Fate/Zero, Fate/Hollow Ataraxai.

To be accepted as a true fan of type moon, you must have sex with Saber on a full moon's night, and post proof here

>>6976922

I have your proof right here
*Grabs crotch*

>>6976892

Primate Murder only has absolute killing domain over humans, it probably could be slain by a dragon.

You need to re-read tsukihime and fsn, and then you need to read all the spin off stuff, and then watch the animes and movies, and then re-watch them, and then read wiki pages and stuff.

>>6976944
>a being that could only be sealed by 10 counter guardians
>killed by a dragon
lol

>>6976966

7 Counter Guardians, and those count as human.

>>6976970
Counter Guardians are still Heroic Spirits.

>>6977005
Which are still human.

>>6977014
Who cares? Even fucking Gilgamesh was human.

>>6977027

Gilgamesh has a space ship.

>>6977014
But humans have slain dragons a lot in many stories. Not sure where you're going with here.

>>6976966
Dragons are the greatest phantasm beasts regardless of class, but Primate Murder has been wandering around since the prehistory. Also, Dragons breath pure prana on the level of Excalibur, they are quite powerful. Though it is still Gaia's left hand, so it can't be stronger than Arcueid.

>>6977005
Yes but most of them aren't on the level of true Heroic Spirits like those of the Grail War. They are also the basic of Servants, so his stats are probably pretty average in comparison to Grail Servants, not to mention that most of them probably don't have Noble Phantasms. They are strong because they get unlimited prana while in misions.

>>6977032
And Counter Guardians would have their own Noble Phantasms + Counter Force.

>>6977038
SEVEN of them.

A below average Servant in terms of stats in Archer, a CG, managed to last long enough to be able to kill a lot of lives from Hercules on his own.

>Because Type Moon works are like Tolkien works.

>>6977027
>Gilgamesh was human.
Gilgamesh was a god.

>>6977085
>gilgamesh
>human
>his destiny was to be king, not to be immortal
>god
lol

>>6977085
Gilgamesh was 2/3 god. Still mortal.

>>6977130

What about his space ship?

bump

This annoys me so much because you have stupid idiots on /a/ that go
>HURRR RYUGI CAN KILL ANYONE FROM /CO/ BECAUSE SHE CONTROLS REALITY
or
>HURR VAMPIRE SLAYERS CAN KILL ARC BECAUSE THEY NEGATE HER EXISTENCE

Type Moon should just never have been invented because its fans are rabid.

originally i came from /a/, then i watched the touhou anime and a shitload of amv/mad's to get a basic about what all the touhou fuss is about.

>>6977034
>>6977038
>>6977039
>>6977052

For fuck's sake
>Primate Murder only has absolute killing domain over humans
>Primate Murder only has absolute killing domain over humans
>Primate Murder only has absolute killing domain over humans
>Probably could be killed by a dragon BECAUSE A DRAGON IS NOT A HUMAN

I didn't, i watched KnK and i found it ok, read F/SN and it was shit and read Tsukihime, and it was decent.

I really don't care for Nasu powerlelevlshaxsshit

>>6979835

>HURR VAMPIRE SLAYERS CAN KILL ARC BECAUSE THEY NEGATE HER EXISTENCE

Wait, what? No.
She could only be killed if she went raging demon lord and lost Gaia's backup (which would make her very hard to kill anyway, but still fundamentally being a very mighty mortal), or if Shiki stabs her true dot (only possible during the day).

>>6979872

Oh, and it's implied Black Barrel's conceptual effect would kill her too.

CANAAN is anything but Type-Moon.

>>6979863
Counter Guardians = Heroic Spirits = not humans = needs seven Archer-stat fighters with unlimited prana to simply restrain

One Archer-stat fighter was able to last long enough to kill the mighty Hercules many times.

>>6979909

>Heroic Spirits = not humans

Wrong!

>One Archer-stat fighter was able to last long enough to kill the mighty Hercules many times.

When he was insane, sure.

>>6979912
>spirit
>human
lol

Next time you'll tell me a woman has a penis.

>>6979916

Saber had a penis for a bit.

Anyway, a human's spirit is still a human.

>>6979912
They stopped being humans when they stopped being humans. I hope this isn't too difficult for you to process.

>>6979922
No, it isn't. That's like saying a vampire is still a human. Shit doesn't fly, yo.

>>6979879
The Black Barrel can only seal her, not kill her.

>>6979909
>Heroic Spirits = not humans

Now you just went full retard. Heroic Spirits are human spirits, hence they are humans. Also, not all Counter Guardians can spam unlimited Noble Phantasms like Archer, in fact most Counter Guardians won't have one since not all Heroic Spirits have made pacts with Alaya, so very few Counter Guardians must be on the level of Grail Servants.

>>6979916
>>6979923
>>6979924
Q: Who would be stronger if Servants fought the 27 Ancestors? Servant's also have superhuman battle ability, but the 27 Ancestors are also superhuman monsters.... I got the impression that ORT, Primate Murder, Altrouge Brunestud, and so on were obviously stronger than Servants.

A: All I can is they're both alike.... They're both beings that live in mystery, so the only thing that can be said is that it all depends on the situation the moment it comes done to ""having the means of killing the other guy somehow". Among those, Earth rules won't even apply to ORT in the first place and Primate Murder has the super advantage against primates so they're in a league of their own, I suppose. Speaking of which, for one Primate Murder, seven Guardians would be the appropriate amount.

>Primate Murder has the super advantage against primates
>Primate Murder has super advantage against Servants, therefore it is on a league on its own

Do you get it now you retards? Heroic Spirits are humans/primates, hence Primate Murder has a super advantage against them.

>>6976799
This chart is not up to date
Powerlevels are not consistent in the Nasuverse and with just a bit of readinc comprehension you can understant their powers and weaknesses since it's all rock/paper/scissors anyway
The end

>>6976904
You were supposed to play ReACT first.

If you didn't, do, because contrary to your expectations, IT HAS STORY.

>>6979979
And arcueid is rock and paper and scissors at the same time.

>>6979985

No, only ORT is the Paperocksors.

>>6979985
That's because Arcueid has no weaknesses, and can exploit her enemies weaknesses due to her extremely high versatility.

>>6979931
Archer is a Counter Guardian. His stats are below average in comparison to most Servants. Having NPs does not make Archer have stronger stats the same way Gilgamesh does not grow any stronger stat-wise with extra NPs.

And yet he is able to last long enough to kill one of the most powerful Servants in the Grail War just by having more than one NP.

Spirits are not humans. You could classify them as human spirits, but that still does not make them human. Because humans don't function like spirits.

>>6979951
... did you even read what you typed?

Someone tell me about Gilgamesh's space ship, please.

>>6980001
You will see it in half a year in an anime anyway, not worth words.

HIS OPPONENT HOWEVER

>>6980001
It's an overbearing gaudy ship that can be commanded with Gilgamesh's thoughts, and yet is slower than an F-15 fighter jet.

>>6980001

Vimana really isn't a space ship, it's just a divine airplane that gods flew around on.

It wasn't even that useful, it got blown up in the 4th war.

>>6979985
>>6979995
It's funny because Arcruied is weak in the traditional sense that you only have to destroy the planet to kill her. Considering we get crazy shit like the stuff Zeltretch can pull off, Arc isn't really strong in retrospect.

>>6980005
Holy crap antique Airwing

>>6980004
>>6980003
>>6980005

Thank you

>>6980008
so we only have to destroy the planet to kill her,nothing much really.

>>6980008
>that you only have to destroy the planet to kill her
All Types are like this. And its hard to kill planets. Only a select few even have the ability to pull it off. Even Gilgamesh can't kill the planet with Ea without Gaia probably going insane in trying to murder him after the first shot.

>>6980020

I think you just have to "kill" the planet, like in Angel Notes.

If you think about it, Zelretch already fought against a Type.

And he almost lost while the Type wasn't even fighting seriously.

>>6979999
>... did you even read what you typed?

Yes, it was stated that Primate Murder has super advantage against primates, which is why it is on a league of its own when it comes to fighting Servants.

>>6980008
>Considering we get crazy shit like the stuff Zeltretch can pull off

Too bad Nasu already stated in one of the latest interviews that Arcueid > Zelretch. Arcueid is without a doubt the most powerful being in his major works.

>you only have to destroy the planet to kill her

Hurr, and how many beings on the Nasuverse can pull that off? Considering that to win against Arcueid you need to literally be stronger than the Planet, since as the embodiment of the Planet's consciousness Arcueid's power has no limits. And not even the Types have shown the power it takes to blow up a world.

>>6980023
Eh, I'm just doing general power level comparisons. /a/ seems to think anything fighting against Arc = instant lose since she is always +1 in terms of strength or whatever.

Also, not sure if /jp/ related, but can Void Shiki really do crazy stuff like warp reality? If so, shouldn't she be the strongest character in the TM universe, making all power level threads moot?

>>6980024
Angel notes doesnt count,if i remember correctly nasu said this somewhere so dont bother him.

>>6980031

Not only that, Nasu has said that Zelretch's victory was basically a fluke.

And despite all of that, Zelretch was still turned into a vampire. The Ultimate Ones are not to be trifled with.

>>6980034

Does that mean no Ado Edem and Gun God?

>>6980033

>And not even the Types have shown the power it takes to blow up a world.

I'm pretty sure the falling moon would have done it, so Type-Moon gets that discretion.

>>6980035
Arcueid was ranked ahead of Void Shiki in the last ranking I've heard, because Arcueid also has reality warping in her arsenal.

I somewhat enjoyed Tsukihime but all the powerlevels really make me dislike the rest of the Nasuverse.

>>6980042
Dude, the Earth getting hit by the moon won't kill it. It would just kill all humans.

>>6980035

Void Shiki's "reality warping" is really overblown both by herself and the fans. Nasu's said she's a bluffer.

She still can only move and react with the speed of a human, too.

>>6980045
As far as I can understand, Ryugi could tap into the void and rewrite the entirety of the universe, whereas Arc's reality warping was limited to her phantasms and only on earth/the moon. Unless Arc gets more hax in MB or something, I'm not seeing a fair fight here.

Didn't the Earth die already in one of the works?

>>6980053

Do you know anything about astronomical interaction?

The moon would shatter the earth like an egg. It would still "exist", but it would be flaming debris for millions of years and NOTHING would remain alive. It would take at least one billion years before the molten mass of the new Earth-Moon planetoid to reform.

>>6980035
Ryougi's warp reality isnt something like godlike.Nanaya Shiki's eyes is stronger than ryougi because his eyes are ignores everything like armor,instant regen,barrier etc. while ryougi's cannot, but ryougi's eyes doesnt have a limiter so her mind isnt in danger.
One of them have ultimate eyes with a limiter and one of them have a worse eyes than other but doesnt have a limiter.So they are more or less equal.

>>6980063
Yeah, and? The Earth would still be there and it would still rebuild itself after the collision. It won't die, but humans will. There's the difference.

>>6980080
Hmm.. I really should watch KnK sometime then, since /a/ says things like
>Void Shiki can beat Arc because she can will her or the earth out of existence
>Void Shiki can beat Accelerator because she can eliminate the concept of vectors or alter it to her
>Void Shiki can beat anything from /co/ because she can will anything out of existence

It sounded BS, but hey, this is Nasu.

>>6980035
>If so, shouldn't she be the strongest character in the TM universe

No, because on the time it'd take her to kill reality would be roughly the time a Servant to cut her in pieces, rip her heart, rape her corpse, and throw her remains into a dump.

Arcueid is stronger than her because she is superior in almost every way. She is always as strong as her opponent + 1. Faster, stronger, can tank more damage. Impervious to anything but the magic in Ancient Shinto in Japan, the treasures at South America , True Magic and Noble Phantasms. Cannot be killed by external factors. Gets rebooted at full power by the world any time she can't come back by herself. Can create any world she wants that might exist on earth (regardless if its from the past or the future) and immitate True Magic like time travel. Can manipulate anything in the world except humans, human constructions, and creatures of demonic origin. At full power she is Aristotles tier. She has no concept of death under the moon, so she is immune to the MEoDP. She gains resistance to abilities previously used, etc, etc.

>>6980057
Read >>6980054

>Arc's reality warping was limited to her phantasms and only on earth/the moon

That's like saying ORT cannot use any of her abilities on Earth.

Arcueid is essentially a Type. She auto-terraforms her surroundings just by being in a non-Earth area. If you put her in a place far away from Earth, defeating her becomes almost impossible like ORT is unbeatable on Earth: because you can't destroy their planets.

>>6980098
dont bother /a,for they a girl which have a cool speech can kill everything i'm sure most of them know tsukihime from anime not vn.

>>6980098
Because the epilogue, apart from being awfully Nasu, has her true personality say she can just recreate reality.

>>6980105
>Arcueid is stronger than her because she is superior in almost every way.

You see, no one denies this. My question is that if Ryugi can warp reality, she doesn't even have to kill Arc, just make it so Arc doesn't exist or if that's impossible, eliminate Earth from the timespace. The problem is, I have no idea how Ryugi's powers work, are they like Shiki's where she has to stab a point, or can she just 'will' it?

>>6980114
And so can Arcueid. It's the same way with Tohno Shiki's MEoDP where Arcueid says he can kill anything with it.

Obviously he can't kill Types with it as Types have no death (you have to kill their planets first for them to even have death).

>>6980108

My penis reacted somehow when you used "her" for ORT. It's weird.

>>6980120
do you think servants will let her whatever she do? while she is trying warp reality a servant will come,cut her in pieces, rip her heart, rape her corpse, and throw her remains into a dump.

>>6980129
Yeah... you already said that. So you're saying she doesn't stab, but 'wills' her reality warping, and that takes time to process in her brain?

>>6980120
Over here >>6980125
A lot of characters in Nasuverse exaggerate their own capabilities. And the fact that Arcueid has reality warping on her own will make it hard for Void Shiki to even win in a h2h, because she won't be faster than Arc and Arc can basically shred her to pieces in the blink of an eye before she can do anything with MP.

>>6980120
Basically this>>6980129
She needs to swing her arm in order to kill stuff. She has human capabilities, so she is powerless before Arc's over 9000 mach speed.

>>6980141
Sword the cleaves the earth can't cleave the earth.
Sword that promises victory can't bring victory.
A fucking lance that brings immediate death can't kill a high school kid.

Shit happens in Nasuverse.

>>6980125
>you have to kill their planets first for them to even have death
Or be Ado Edem.

>>6980135
yes,like when tohno stabbed earth in ciel route,its not easy like one stab to do something like kill gaia or warp reality.

>>6980152
Shiki Tohno is a different case from Ryogi. So is his slicing technique which is pretty instinctual. Ryogi also has a hard time determining the death of very, very old stuff. It takes time for her to get that. Tohno Shiki has no such limits. He can see the death of basically everything, he just has to understand it.

>>6980163
>>6980152
>>6980141
>>6980148
Thanks a lot guys :)

Ryougi Shiki third personality powerlevel thread?

She could erase the world and make a new one just by wishing for it since she is directly connected with Akasha.

But if she were to do something dangerous for Gaia and Alaya, how would they react?
Should Shiki want to do somehing dangerous for the earth, the Beasts of Gaia and Alaya (since humans die with the earth) would crush her at the slightest sign.
But there is also the option of using her power without doing something dangerous. Even here she is restricted though. She needs to be careful not to create a paradox or Gaia would react to it.
Anything else is killable for her as long as she knows of it beforehand. As long as it's not one of those "Beasts".

>>6980236
She can't kill Arcueid, thrid personality or not. Why? Because Arcueid lacks a concept of death thanks to the power of the Moon. She can't do anything to the other Aristotles either because they also don't have an "end" in Akasha's regard.

Moreover, Arcueid is also connected to Akasha because; unlike the other True Ancestors, she was created from complete nothingness, so her Origin is likely Void as well; she also has the perfect human body, and according to Touko the perfect human body is connected to Akasha.

>>6980284
Everything, so long as it exists has an end in Akasha.
After all, everything is recorded there. Every possible scenario, every possible choice. That's the entire point of it. It holds everything.

>>6980302
This post >>6980163

And Aristoteles do not have death unless you destroy their planets.

>>6980284

I didn't mean kill. I meant erase her existence. As long as something exists she can erase it from Akasha.
Also:
>As long as it's not one of those "Beasts".
Arc is a Beast of Gaia.
Gaia wouldn't let somebody touch it's own defensive system.

>>6980350
I'm not sure where you're getting that from.
The 2 Type Ado Edem cleaved, were gone for good, and Type-Venus only survived the Black Barrel due to being a special case.

>>6980302
>Everything, so long as it exists has an end in Akasha.

Does Akasha have an end in Akasha?

Can Void Shiki kill Akasha?

>>6980382

Arcueid is a defense system, but she's not a Counter Force.

Counter Forces are summonable defensive systems that obey the will of the planet. Arcueid has her own will and goes to kill whatever she wants. The planet just supports her by default, and if she chooses to do something out of line with the planet (drinking blood), the planet forsakes her.

>>6980302
In their full capacities as the Ultimate Ones, the planetary embodiment does not have an "end" according to the Akashic Records because their "end" lies on their planets. So you'll have to kill the planet first, which is their source of power. ORT has been stated to be immune to the MEoDP, because it lacks the concept of death. Arcueid also lacks the concept of death under the moon (as shown in MBAA, where Ryougi said that it's not that she couldn't see her death, it's just that for Arcueid, death didn't exist), which is why you need to kill the earth first.

>>6980382
We already know that Arcueid has ways to get around Ryougi's reality altering powers. Plus she is connected to Akasha too; because she is the archetype for all human forms.

>>6980400
Types can be destroyed physically as long as they are not on their homeplanet.

>>6980411
brb emailing Nasu with my gaijin words and letters.

>>6980428
>Arcueid is a defense system, but she's not a Counter Force.

Arcueid is the embodiment of the will of the planet. She is Earth's sense of touch. She is Gaia's Counter Force, that's the whole point of the True Ancestors for God sake. See fuyuki, the Concepts section, Counter Force entry:

Destruction coming by nature/external threats are resolved not by the Counter Force of humanity but by the Counter Force of the world.

Other elements of the Counter Forces:
Guardians - The Guardians of Alaya, aka, Counter Guardians. Heroes with little reverence or no divinity. Reacts primarily to "correct" disturbances caused by humans.
Beast of Alaya - ? Probably another term for the above.
True Ancestors - A Counter Force of the planet with a form.
Beast of Gaia - Primate Murder, a big dog that has the ultimate priviledge of killings primates. Takes some 7 Guardians to control.

>>6980400
>I'm not sure where you're getting that from.
Death as in death caused by MEoDP. We're talking about Void Shiki ffs.

Learn to understand what the fuck the fucking replies are being replied at.

I don't know WHY you people think Arcueid can't die before the Earth.

Arcueid can die before the earth, her death is complete visible even to Tohno Shiki.

It is only under MOONLIGHT, when the power of Type-Moon resonates with her, that she loses her otherwise-present Death.

Ryougi Shiki can kill her at high noon just fine.

>>6980494
We are talking about Arcueid under the Moon here, because Arcueid is only a perfect life-form under the moon. She isn't complete without the Moon's power. If you want an X vs Y you must take all abilities into account. Not that it matters since Arcueid can change the day into night by accelerating the Earth's rotation, anyway.

>Ryougi Shiki can kill her at high noon just fine.

No, she can't. Dead Apostles can dodge a bullet once it has been shot (so they already have supersonic senses and reflexes), while Arcueid's capabilities are to Dead Apostles what DA capabilities are to humans. R. Shiki is just a human, so she really has no chance, not to mention that she is much slower than Tohno with his Nanaya insticts, and Arcueid would have avoided Shiki's surprise attack if she would have been willing to kill a human, something that won't happen again.

>>6980494
It was stated in Ciel's route that TA cannot be killed by external factors. The only thing that can permanently kill Arcueid on the day is the MEoDP. On the night nothing can kill her, nothing at all, which is why she lacks a concept of death.

>>6980494
Tohno Shiki is able to see Arcueid's death immediately because of his version of the MEoDP.

Ryougi's MEoDP has a limitation in that the older the mystery, the longer she'll take to understand the death of something. Arcueid would be WAY older than anything Ryougi's ever fought. And even then, when under the moonlight, her killing the Earth like Shiki would be virtually impossible, seeing as how the Earth is VERY VERY FUCKING OLD.

>>6980494
She cant kill arcueid because ryougi is just a human,her speed is equal at a normal human and she is much slower than tohno shiki.And arcueid can change day to night so ryougi cant even kill tied arcueid.And ryougi's eyes is worse than tohno,it takes time to see death if the target is old so there is no way ryougi can kill arcueid just enough this shit.

I don't get it, if Ryugi needs to do the stab motion to rewrite reality, how does she back up the claim she can rewrite the universe? Are you saying there's a point in the universe that she can stab?

guyz guyz she don't rewrite dah unibasu
she rewrite da warld
difference be there

>>6980646
Ryougi's reality rewrite is embellished and a bluff.

Arcueid also has reality rewrite, in some cases shown, bordering on True Magic level that can be reproduced.

Arcueid's physicality is much more superior than Ryougi's.

>>6980645
3rd Ryougi can dodge bullets after they're fired, she has better reaction speed. Tohno Shiki is probably the faster in terms of slicing technique when fully released that even vampires that are faster than bullets and can dodge bullets faster than 3rd Ryougi can are actually sliced apart by Tohno because Tohno is an instinctual killer.

>>6980411
>Does Akasha have an end in Akasha?
Do you even know what Akasha is?