/jp/ - Otaku Culture

remilia ?

Stop looking at fanart and play the game

Age equals power.

Someone hasn't played Extra.

>>6918231
That's why Suwako is 3000y old and is the smallest touhou out there.
Also tewi, useless but old.

Because there's nothing more terrifying than a grown woman.

What about Tenshi? She seems to be in her teens

>>6918230
According to ZUNart everyone is a loli

お前のじゃ小さすぎて挟めないわｗｗｗｗｗｗｗｗｗｗｗｗ

>>6918222
Isn't a "ripe loli" an oxymoron?

>>6918254
Not always.

ZUN is afraid of the almighty uterus.

First reply hit the nail on the head. I read this post and thought Remilia instantly.

>>6918317
That and possibly kaguya aren't really well developed.
Still doesn't change the fact that the other game bosses have tits and look over 20.

He said that Yuugi's around ''Yuyuko level'' in the SA interview. Also if physics are to be doubted then he drew Okuu with some of it in the Reimu B ending, then again it's ZUN so one can never know.

I'm disappointed with the size of Yukari's breasts in that picture.

The lady deserves bigger ones.

>>6918228
Yep. Just look at the description of her theme:

"...so I made it Jazz-Fusion based with a hint of
loli... wait, that's not any different than normal..." ~ZUN

Remilia: Loli
Yuyuko: Woman
Suika: Loli
Kaguya: Upper teens-low 20s
Siki: Upper teens-low 20s
Kanako: Woman
Tenshi: Teens
Utsuho: Low 20s
Byakuren: Woman

OP = wat

>>6918935
LALALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU ALL TOUHOUS ARE LOLIS

They're all lolis. Several thousand year old lolis who are depicted by secondary fans as non-lolis.

>>6918254

No.

>>6918938
I lol'd.

And as long as I can be dominated by them, is anything goes!

>>6918935
>Remilia
>Loli

I refuse to believe this, ZUN just can't draw and the official comics are barely canon.

>>6918943
This is my fetish.

>>6918935
i'm ok with this.

>>6918943

>>6918935
Nope, dude. Not a single one was intended to look older than ~20. It's thanks to the secondaries that they got older in fanon. Just compare the old fanart and doujins with the new ones and you will understand.
Zun is a lolicon anyway. To correct your list:
Remilia: 8
Yuyuko: ~20
Suika: ~12
Kaguya: ~15
Skiki: ~18
Kanako: ~20
Tenshi: ~15
Utsuho: ~15
Byakuren: ~20

>>6918962
PMiSS says she has the body of a 8 year old. Literally.

>>6918962
It states outright that she looks under ten in Perfect Memento in Strict Sense.

>>6918995
>>6918990
Pffft, a mouthpiece for ZUN said to be unreliable is hardly canon.

I'll buy Flandre as being younger but, Remi is mid-teens body-size as far as I see.

She's no shorter then Reimu/Marisa.

>>6919019
Heh, in that case, just ignore canon and live in your own beliefs, that's what fanon is for.

Why is /jp/ total shit?

You people sound like debaters in an Umineko thread. Squeezing any tidbit of canon (and made up shit) to avoid losing your precious loli universe to dastardly canonity.

And yes, the official mangas are canon in their entirety, because even though ZUN only did the writing and didn't meet with the artist much, he's the one that APPROVED the final product. Not to mention, the 3 Mischevious Fairies started in Manga.

>>6919019
>She's no shorter then Reimu/Marisa.

???

>>6919064
The whole idea behind fanon is to misinterpret the actually canon to suit your own wishes. It will never stop.

>>6919073
I know that, but in this case people are treating that as canon.

>>6919064
''Canon with a grain of salt'' the drunk may approve shit but, it doesn't mean it's canon.

As far as I'm concerned it's secondary shit, I'll buy Rinnosuke's existence just because Marisa mentioned a ''Shop Keeper'' in the games.

>>6919068
An artist's interpretation, no more canon than any other and the Fighters are a collaboration, not full Touhou games.

>>6919019
>unreliable is hardly canon

Even unreliable people can see what a preteen girl looks like.

>>6919064
Because I wouldn't have gotten into Touhou if it wasn't a shooter with little girls in it. Without the little girls, it's just a shooter.

>>6919093
So the 3 Mischevious Fairies are secondaries? Get your shit straight and stop holding to your own reality, nobody's gonna buy your opinion if you keep acting like that, it's just canon, be like everyone and ignore it, just don't try to change it because you're not ZUN.

>>6918990
>Byakuren: ~80, then ~20
fixed

>>6919156
They have since been in a game, yes?

Then, they aren't.

ZUN doesn't give a fuck about story and he said ''grain of salt'' for wriggle room later.

But yeah, those books aren't hard canon, period.

>>6919073
I'm more distressed over the fact that fanon is always trying to push itself as the standard view of said character. The "Everyone has their own gensokyo" Is just a ruse in order for them to churn out fanshit until its the generally accepted idea of what the character is like.

>>6919164
>>6919093
>The author may approve shit, but it doesn't mean it's canon.

...

Your opinion is now invalid. Let your butthurt out before coming back.

>>6919164
>But yeah, those books aren't hard canon, period.

[citation needed]

>>6919164
There is no basis for what you are saying.

>>6919176
What part of they're called ''with a grain of salt'' and told by a narrator who's unreliability is outright stated, is above you?

It wasn't meant to be taken as scripture.

>>6919168
So, much, butthurt.

>>6919168
I'm more distressed over the fact that fanon is always trying to push itself as the standard view of said character. "Canon" Is just a ruse in order for them to churn out fanshit until its the generally accepted idea of what the character is like.

What's so unreliable about height? All Akyuu (the ''unreliable narrator'') has to do is look at Remilia and check that shit, not to mention the unreliability is just that Akyuu doesn't know every single tidbit about everyone, this isn't Umineko's level of truth validation. Oh who am I kidding, you're to butthurt to argue with, let it out before coming again.

I'll show you who's boss of this gym.

>>6918962
what the fuck
seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you?
In zun's head everything is loli, the OP must clearly be talking about fanart depictions. In fanart Remilia is invariably a loli 100% of the time. OP is full of bullshit and there's no way to seriously defend him.

>>6919191
Meant to post >>6919164, oops.

>>6919199
The ''accepted idea'' is more of a general agreement on the standards of what fans portray her as. Whether they know it or not, ZUN will always have the final word, as unspecific as he is.

And yes, ZUN has confirmed the presence of meat in the chest area for some, if you Japanese you can check the SA interview and get to Yuugi, to whom he compares with other breast sizes of other Touhou characters.

>>6919199
I dont understand the point you were trying to throw across here by mocking me. I'll restate what I meant in my original post.

The world of Gensokyo is not static, and has many things open to interpretation. It does however, have many things that are set in stone. I dont have a problem with anyone filling in the gaps of what they believe the rest of the world is like. But when you give someone an inch the take a mile. Take Hong for instance. Why is she always represented as having a large bust in canon, to the point where I can hardly find any art of her with a small chest? This is an example of fanon setting itself as a standard view of a character.

Now as to how I think this came to be. Most "artists" seem to know very little of the actual game or characters, and are drawing fan art of fan art. Over time the view of the character has been warped, and everyone accepts it as the standard.

>>6919249
>Take Hong for instance. Why is she always represented as having a large bust in canon, to the point where I can hardly find any art of her with a small chest? This is an example of fanon setting itself as a standard view of a character.

Umm, maybe because...

Do you NOW understand the point I'm trying to make?

>>6919244
>if you Japanese you can check the SA interview
Because it's not like anybody would like that translated into English amirite

>>6919223
The point I'm trying to emphasize is that there isn't any canon put out that can't be doubted, ZUN does this on purpose.

And your meme-spouting is getting tiresome, /v/ may appreciate your tired expressions more.

>>6919297
I actually have no idea where your image originates from.
This is my view of Hong. Any showing otherwise is something I take as artist error, or again, trying to push their view of a character as the standard, when it clearly deviates from the original.

>>6919249
>hong meiling always large bust
oh man, had to go all the way to page 2 of a danbooru search for one where she's completely flat...

It's from the Three Fairies manga, which ZUN signed off on. The same artist also did the art for Fairy Wars.

Do you insist that Minoriko has two left feeet, too?

>>6919249
Some things that you might think are fanon are actually canon.

If you want a full knowledge then you can start by reading every book and manga there is, then if you want extra picture-less info you can check the ZUN interviews and game/book afterwords.

Yes, Hong has a large bust in canon as shown by >>6919297, by the way.

>>6919324
>I actually have no idea where your image originates from.

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_and_Bright_Nature_Deity

>>6919324
fanart isn't about being perfectly on-model, otherwise quality tracing would be considered the highest-tier of fanart

>>6919337
But her original image is also canon.

>>6919328
Learn to read anon.
> I can hardly find any art of her with a small chest

He has difficulty finding it is all. As in most art is China with rude tits.

>>6919323
I can at agree with you there at least. Visual stuff, mainly. I don't think there's any location in the series that has looked the same twice in a row.

>>6919242
<<

>>6919297
Those look rather average-sized. Large for a Touhou, sure, but not fuck-huge like she's usually drawn with.

>>6919328
This is the sort of lovely cuteness that China deserves.

>>6919244
>And yes, ZUN has confirmed the presence of meat in the chest area for some, if you Japanese you can check the SA interview and get to Yuugi, to whom he compares with other breast sizes of other Touhou characters.

This never happened.

>>6919342
and the point here is it is the original. ZUN did not do the art for the manga, it was another artist who drew it in his own style. We could argue back and forth all day about what we believe any character looks like. But you cannot argue against the original character portrait being wrong. That is as canon and concrete as it can possibly get.

>>6919345
And I'm saying I don't have difficulty finding art of china without a large bust. I conclude that he just expects all fanart to his exact requests by default.

>>6919363

Seems like a boobinite to me.

>>6919242
There is a fair amount of older Remi, primarily in the future tense.

Regardless, I was not so much insisting on Remi not being a loli as much as I was making the point of how canon is rarely set in stone.

>>6919353
wow, you found a picture of flandre and remilia drawn in a more adult style to deliberately contrast their usual depiction in canon and fanon as vampires that are hundreds of years old but still appear as children. CLEARLY ALL FINAL BOSSES ARE BUSTY HAGS.

I'm pretty sure even ZUN wouldn't insist that his own portrait is a perfect depiction of Meiling's appearance. Do you also insist that Aki Minoriko has two left feet?

>>6919377
She's looked like a kid for 500 years, why would she change?

>>6919390
the picture implies use of sakuya's timehax

>>6919389
Some people just can't dance.

>>6919387
That's not what he said. You put those words in his mouth. He was providing a counterexample to your statement here:

>In fanart Remilia is invariably a loli 100% of the time.

>>6919390
Why wouldn't she?

Devils may not age along the same pattern and Vampires in Gensokyo seems more akin to them rather than the usual undead and she may have aged a bit over time.

Why hasn't most of the cast aged?

ZUN's whims.

>>6919361
So you're saying that the only validate canon would be one that is drawn with the exact same art-style that ZUN does? Like kamS?

You can't expect that from anyone, not even those who stick to canon above inferences. If ZUN had been bothered by an undesired inconsistency in the manga, he'd have told the guy, he sends the script and details what things are which and lets the guy do the rest. He doesn't do the drawings because he knows his art isn't passable enough. Do you see what he's doing?

He lets the artists, make canon, in terms of appearance. Otherwise he'd have said something in his blog/twitter saying what things the artist fucked up.

>>6919420
Meant >>6919363, gah.

>>6919410

Yes, exactly. It's Zun wish for the Touhous to be loli and petanko. If 3000-year olds won't mature, 500-year olds won't either.

With PMiSS Zun tried to flesh out his characters and give the fans more definite canon material. Those entries are the most canonical depictions existing due to their nature as biography, right after Zun's own illustrations.

>>6919420
People who follow the Touhou manga always seem to agree with Gensokyo being open to interpretation, where hardcore primaries only accept the original character portraits.

If the world is open to interpretation as you say it is, then there is no way for the primaries to be proven wrong. From the primary point of view, there are no openings in their argument, as their perception of a character is right in both view points.
You cannot argue them to be wrong, as again, if the world is open to interpretation, they can refute all additional works not created by ZUN and still follow both standards.

>>6919458
I read your post yet I'm not sure which points you disagree with >>6919420 's post.

>>6919503
>>6919503
It was not disagreement, but using his post to further express my point. I am sorry if my post was difficult to decipher, as English is not my first language, but I will give it my best attempt to rephrase it.

It cannot be argued that the character portraits used in any of the games can be an incorrect depiction of any character, as they were the original showings of a character, and absolute as created by ZUN.

It can however be argued that any depiction of a character not created by ZUN himself could be fundamentally flawed.

These manga which are considered canon by many, try to push a sense of freedom in the interpretation of Gensokyo and its residents. By this sense of freedom, hardcore primaries who only accept the games showing of a character are correct in their choice of view by both sides. They are also free to refute the manga, and its gift of freedom and still be correct in their choice, while those for the manga would be wrong in their viewpoint.

I could express this in a truth table.

0 false 1 true
A primary B secondary C viewpoint

1 1 1
1 0 1


0,1 and 0,0 are both invalid states, as for both interpretations the original character portraits and depictions as shown in game are never wrong.

>>6919567
Even so, you could argue that ZUN's own made portraits were drawn in that way for the sake of it, and should he have a better hand at drawing, he'd have made them more detailed in the physics aspect. As said before, since he didn't bother the artists for characters' appearances, it can be argued that he either told them how to draw them (since he can't do it on his own) or let them do it what they consider proper, as long as it's modest enough, with base on the more-detailed portraits in PMiSS' character profile pics. The fact that ZUN didn't bother them afterwards shows that he is okay with the way it came out and essentially let the artists write canon for a while, that at the same time didn't collide with or made ZUN uncomfortable.

>>6919567
>It cannot be argued that the character portraits used in any of the games can be an incorrect depiction of any character

Noone argues that.

They are, on the other hand, and incomplete depiction of the character. What ZUN has drawn is absolute, but what he hadn't drawn isn't. I hope you can comprehend the subtle difference here.

>>6919693
Oh, nice one there. A more concrete and direct affirmation from some of what can be gathered in some of the posts here.

ZUN made them up, ZUN drew them, ZUN added them to the game. They are exactly as they appear in the games, whether you like it or not.
All of them look like lolis. Whether they're actially 10,000 old or not is a different story.
But they all look like preteen girls, at most. I'd say they're 8-14.

>>6919693
I think I am beginning to understand the point that many have been trying to express in this thread concerning non ZUN art that is still considered canon. I have been attempting to define this in the territory of absolutes, but I had not considered entering the possibility of maybe.

>>6919765
So Reimu lacks a nose, is what you're saying?

>>6919693
they'll be little girls forever.
It's the very exact reason why ZUN refuses to say Reimu's age. "If I told you how old she is, she'll be a year older by next year. And a year older after that."
He wants them to be little girls forever, so they will never age.
On top of that, he makes the Gensokyo events at his own pace. So whatever chance of them being older simply won't be allowed to exist.

>>6919792
it's kind of lovable.

If you hate it, get out. Touhou is not for you if you cannot appreciate every aspect of it.

>>6919792
Krillin lacks a nose, what do you mean by that? If a fan of the series drew krillin with a nose, would that be the correct depiction of krillin, and the original just a poorly drawn character? No.

Many of you need to stop seeing the art ZUN draws as poor in quality. I see it as art very high in quality, much higher than what many see as a completed characters.
>>6919693
The character depiction is not incomplete in any sense. The character has been drawn, and thus is completed at the point ZUN decided it was completed. The matter of quality all falls on opinion. I could argue that nothing is complete lest it have the same coloring and texture as the art ZUN has drawn. You are making the mistake of holding his art to the standard which has stagnated many mangaka in modern days. By your logic it could be said that 90's animation is incomplete if it does not have a modern adaptation that conforms to todays general art direction, which is not true in the least.

>>6919792
It's one of the side affects of the orbs. She always smells sweet things, but she can't smell anything else.

>>6919792
Cute how everyone missed the point of this post by a mile.

>I'm more distressed over the fact that fanon is always trying to push itself as the standard view of said character. The "Everyone has their own gensokyo" Is just a ruse in order for them to churn out fanshit until its the generally accepted idea of what the character is like.

I agree entirely. I'm not opposed to fanon bettering canon, but not when it directly contradicts what little we do know about a character, and especially not when it's a retarded fan meme.

This picture is here because I only have one picture expressing agreement and it's been used. Who thought I'd need more than that on 4chan?

>>6919827
First of all calm down a bit, as said before ZUN's idea of canonity is very vague so it's open to interpretation.

Now onto your paragraph, while I agree that ZUN's art is modest enough to give people basic characteristics (other than breast size), if he's so content with his art as you said, why let someone else draw the mangas? Maybe he prefers for the mangas to actually look ''manga-ish'' you might say. In that case, why let CHARACTER PORTRAITS be drawn by someone else like it happens with every non-manga book? Not in-game you say? The fighting games, there you go.

>>6919918
They are flat and have small noses. Deal with it. There is no room for interpretation.
After Zun's own art comes the pictures in PMiSS since it exclusively serves the purpose to provide biographies.

>>6919918
Or maybe, he can't write the scripts, books, programs, music composition, music practicing, character's personalities, character's descriptions, novels, manga, and world settings, at the same time? All the while staying drunk and coming up with ideas for the next Touhou games.

Seriously, really doubt that he did it "just because". It's just too much work. I doubt he even had much of a choice.

After all, it's known above all he likes to do things himself.

>>6919973
PMiSS is full of Akyu's drawings. SaBND is not.

If the game's art is going for a specific style or is limited by the artist's ability, both of which are true for Touhou, there's no reason to take it as canon 100% accurate to what they look like.

Except when cartoons try to be clever about it, the characters aren't "Meant" to look like that. Some people in this thread must have exploded when they watched Panty & Stocking.

>"I, I just drew them! (lol)
>"I don't know. I think it'll loose originality if I'd make them the same style like the professional artists do these days. Don't you find such things lovable?"

I do. Superficialfags will be superficial, but I like them dear ZUN. I think your style. Please don't have someone else draw them for you. It's just not the same.

>>6919989
And?
SaBND is a story involving three fairies.
PMiSS is a biography with the intention to lay down some canon foundation.

>>6920026
PMiSS leaves room for narrative inaccuracy. SaBND does not.

ZUNart bestart

>Windows computer fairy
lol

>>6920005
I never saw that show.

>>6920005
I doubt anyone here has actually watched panty and stocking. Thats something more akin to /a/ than /jp/.

>>6920055
Or /co/, judging by the art style.

>>6920033
I'm speaking about the illustrations.
PMiSS depiction of the characters weighs more due to the intention of the book. Zun would be more careful of how he wants his characters to look like in a biography.

>>6919973
>They are flat

>>6919376

>>6919984
I'm pretty sure he mentioned the fact that the artwork for the games comes last, to which is a bother to him for his deadlines, one can assume that he doesn't care as much for it, and either rushes it out or doesn't mind the little details as much. Actually, the fact that he hires artists proves this point even more. Citation? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otIrJdoaITI

Oh and, they do have noses in most of the games.

>>6920072
I'm sure you would be running the reverse argument if somebody had illustrated PMiSS, ie, "well, that's just what Akyuu's drawing style looks like." Which would actually be a reasonable argument. You are even more strict about Gensokyo conforming exactly to ZUN art expectations with no deviation allowed than ZUN himself. ZUN said that a depiction of with chest in canon material was perfectly okay while you think there's something wrong with it.

>>6920072
I'm sure you would be running the reverse argument if somebody had illustrated PMiSS, ie, "well, that's just what Akyuu's drawing style looks like." Which would actually be a reasonable argument. You are even more strict about Gensokyo conforming exactly to ZUN art expectations with no deviation allowed than ZUN himself. ZUN said that a depiction of Meiling with chest in canon material was perfectly okay while you think there's something wrong with it.

>>6920093
But someone DID illustrate PMiSS, Aki Eda.

>>6920083
Red dots are approximate locations of nipples. As you can see, perfectly flat.

>>6920103
That's BS. He never said that.

>>6920108
China has very large areolas. I bet they're puffy too.

>>6920106
Well, shit. There goes my argument.

Meiling has her back to us, so that's no good, but apparently Yukari is fairly busty while Yuka is flat as a board.

>>6920113
Conditional tense.

>>6920127
>Yuka flat as a board

That artist needs to be strung up.

>>6920141
Maybe she's not as mature as fanon thought? Or maybe she's, you know, flat chested.

Her PMiSS portrait shows her being only very slightly taller or even the same height than say, Reimu.

>>6920127
It's moderate sized. Not those ridiculous udders she is usually depicted with by fan artists.

>>6920141
That's how she looks like. The busty Yuuka is only fanon.

>>6920182
Some character even said Reimu and Yuuka look similar. Don't remember who it was though.

Fanon really has taken quite a bit of liberty with a few characters, and it's probably gonna stay.

My biggest peeve is portraying Sikieiki as fun sized when she's actually as tall as Komachi.

>>6920183
>>6920182
>Moderate sized

That's perfectly fine, she needs SOMETHING, however.

I don't care for huge, just something.

>>6920219
Anything with Tasogare art looks flat.
Guess it can't be helped, ZUN probably didn't have much hand with the fightan' game art.

>>6920219
She doesn't even have boobs in Flower View.

>>6920231
She looks fat though.

>>6920199
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Yuuka_Kazami

VIVIT and Youmu.

>>6920232
She's getting too much sunlight and rain.

>>6920219
I meant Yukari depicted in PMiSS.

Yuuka has always been completely flat. In every work. She has the appearance of a ~15-year old girl.

>>6920219
Stick to fanon then, judging by your posts, canon isn't the thing for you.

>>6920237
I don't know about you but, I've never seen a flat fifteen year old.

They have breasts.

>>6920242
I've seen flat 30 year olds, it just depends on the person.

>>6920242
I have. Hell, I used to know a few of them back in High school.

If anything Reimu and Marisa are "probably" the most busty out of the lot since they're normal humans and should grow normally without their growth suddenly getting halted at a random age like other Yokai.

Oh yeah, i guess Sanae and Sakuya fit as well, however i have no idea how the latter's power affect her.

I doubt ZUN gives a shit whether people actually cling steadfastly one hundred percent to the depictions presented in his own art. The people who he collaborates totally go to town on canon so you would think that if he actually cared, he'd find some better people to work with.

>>6920254
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:PMiSS_reimu.jpg
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:PMiSS_marisa.jpg

>>6920240
That's the fun thing, canon is highly ambiguous.

That's the reason the fanon is so prodigious, canon is very flimsy thing in Touhou.

>>6920269
It's pretty accurate though.

>>6920288
It isn't, though.

Has a single location in Gensokyo remained static?

These are breasts, right?

>>6920269
Canon is...canon. In fact the only thing fanon usually takes from canon is just the appearance, status and references to other things to use as memes.

>>6920315
Sagging tits of an obsolete whore

>>6920315
Alphes drew her with breasts, so she should have.

inb4 canon with a grain of salt.

>>6920108

>ignore objectively present body curvature in favor of arguable approximation of nipple location
>claim position proved

Nope.

>>6920339
>canon with a grain of salt.

Mhmm.

Quite an amusing thread.

>>6920339
Alphes never drew a canon Eirin. This one is canon though:
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:PMiSS_eirin.jpg

>PMiSS depiction of the characters weighs more

If you're going by weight, I think Strange and Bright Nature Deity wins out every time.

On an unrelated note, I personally prefer my Yuka to be early twenties. The Alphes art may disagree but it seems more consistent with her general demeanour and power level.

Guys.

Touhou is really parodistic in nature -- it's like Diskworld but in Japan and with lolis. It's not the kind of work one would expect to have a strictly-defined canon.

>>6920393
I never liked Discworld and if pretending Touhou isn't like it is all I can do then so be it.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Discworld actually does have a defined canon.

>>6920385
Forgot my picture.

>>6920393
I HAVE PERFECT PICTURE

>>6920385
Aphes art? It's Aki Eda who drew most of the canon pics.
SaBND is only a manga to tell a story. PMiSS is a biography of the Touhou girls. It's depictions weigh much more.

How is her demeanor or powerlevel relevant?

If you like the mature looking Yuuka you will have to stay with fanon.

>>6920378
Yeah he did, check out Reisen's ending.

>>6920385
ohu.

>>6920415
If you look it from an angle then you perhaps infer that >>6920385 was talking about how fat people look in Aya's drawings.

>>6920415
>PMiSS is a biography of the Touhou girls
Grain of salt, unreliable narrator, ZUN obviously didn't want to make it concrete.

Stop.Considering.It.Pure.Canon.

The fairy story, however, doesn't seem to have those stated flaws.

>>6920415
And SaBND doesn't leave room for narrative inaccuracy, and PMiSS does. If you want to say that SaBND doesn't count because it's art for a manga you might as well say ZUN art doesn't count because it's art for a game.

I seem to recall ZUN rejecting a lot of the initial proposed art for PMiSS and requesting those characters be redrawn.

>>6920429
You don't get it do you?
Even if Akyu is an unreliable narrator, the illustrations are what's important here.
They are undeniably canon without room for interpretation.

>>6920443
You don't get it.

The drawings can be whatever, if the thing is obviously meant to be barely quasi-canon why would the depictions be exempt?

You're making your own rules.

>>6920430
That doesn't matter.
The intention of Zun matters here and exactly due to that is why the depictions in PMiSS weight more.

>>6920451

You never read even a single canon work did you? Of course it was meant to be canon.
No point in argueing with secondaries. I'm outa here.

>>6920452
Like how ZUN intentionally made it so flimsy?

Zun's intention was to give us some slightly harder ground on things in Gensokyo not stating what everyone looks like.

Remi hardly appears eight years old in this pic

>>6920462
Right just leave as soon as you are cornered.

And I'm no secondary, I've 1cc'ed my fair share of Touhou games and my only third party interest is musical arranges.

>>6920452
ZUN's intention is that he doesn't give a shit about art canon consistency, as art by ZUN, Eda, Asai, Matsukura, Hirasaka, alphes, and Aya all differ highly, and that everybody is free to like whichever artist they like.

And for fuck's sake, even ZUN likes fanon.

I don't what everyone's obsession with being a canon purist is.

Touhou canon fights are fucking hilarious.

>>6920443
It's explicitly stated that the drawings in PMiSS were done by Akyu herself.

>>6920486
That's just flavor. You still can't take them as 100% true depictions, although nothing in them jumps out at me as being wrong (like Momiji in SaBND).

>>6920485
They're fun. I already contributed my fair share to this thread, i do like to hang around still to read what others have to say as well though. Its a lot of fun.

>>6920485
Yeah I feel silly any time I argue about it, but here I am posting all day on /jp/ anyway so what the heck.

>>6920485
Mhmm

>>6920429
>>6920466
Oh wow, now I laughed at this, stop making your own shit up, can't you see nobody's buying it? It's obvious that you're just butthurt about your preferences not being canon.

And to all who say PMiSS isn't reliable, go read the afterword, ZUN says that he was going to be the narrator himself but felt like adding a human element to it (Akyuu), therefore there'd been no difference. Stop taking this truth argument like it has to be said in red or something.

The PMiSS illustrations are accurate, they are drawn by a native of Gensokyo herself instead of the uncertain-art-skills deity. You can't take something like visual depictions as ''possibly unreliable''.

>Now then, this time tales and stories were excluded as much as possible, and an objective rather than subjective point of view was the goal.

Well, I don't care if you think Akyu might fudge the facts a little to prove a point, but to say that she draws characters with imagined bust sizes is lunacy. She'd have nothing to gain from doing such a thing.

And I still contend there's room for a 20-year-old Yuka in the PMISS art.

>>6920540
You're the only who who's mad and is insisting on his own foolishness.

ZUN said it was unreliable, ZUN put to pen that the said unreliable person drew the depictions, ZUN is the one who's uneasy about putting solid canon in his work.

You need to just give up.

>>6920540
So is Eda art more canon than ZUN art now?

>You can't take something like visual depictions as ''possibly unreliable''.
You certainly can, as Reimu looks different in various canon depictions, meaning they can't all be right.

>>6920543

But since ZUN created Akyu, who's to say she didnt inherit her creator's inability to draw accurate breasts?

Also, the "everything is flat, everything!" advocates need to realize that having every single character be flat would be like turning all the metal in the world into gold. Sure, there's a ton of it now, but it loses a lot of its value. Also, variety is good.

>Now then, this time tales and stories were excluded as much as possible, and an objective rather than subjective point of view was the goal.
>Additionally, those who have the most realistic perspectives on things are, as expected, the humans of Gensokyo, with their optimal levels of judgment and reasoning; for that reason, instead of myself, I had Akyu come forth.

>>6920563
I meant ''visual depictions'' as ''someone looking at another person, then drawing a portrait'', in this case Akyuu.

>>6920553
Don't look at me, I'm not the one making preferences as assumptions and treating them as ''obviously canon''.

>>6920553
>ZUN is the one who's uneasy about putting solid canon in his work.

To ascribe intent so easily to a man known for his inscrutability is the height of arrogance.

>>6920586
I don't think Akyu has ever seen some of the Touhous that she drew. Flandre is the most obvious example.

>>6920540
>Butthurt
>said in red or something

Get back to /a/.

Underage: Remi, Flandre, Tewi, Cirno, Mystia, Rumia, Lily, Satori

Doubtful: Shiki, Kaguya

Above/around 16: Yuyuko, Komachi, Sanae, Okuu, Keine, Eirin
No, I won't write down all 150 characters.

>>6920586
She never saw half of the touhous she drew.

You'd think she'd survive a encounter with Flandre or Yuka?

>>6920595
And you are doing anything different?

His fickleness is why these arguments happen, you are making similar assumption by insisting he meant it as canon.

>>6920609
It's canon that Yuuka goes shopping in the human village, so yes.

>>6920618
That doesn't mean she saw her, stop grasping for straws.

>>6920622
But it's perfectly reasonable that Akyuu could have met her without being annihilated.

>>6920609
Actually her memory goes back 1200 years, it's quite possible that her ancestors may have seen the characters in their lifetime.

And how else would you explain the fact that the PMiSS depictions just so happen to look just like the ones in-game?

>>6920622
It doesn't, but it does demonstrate that Akyu could very easily survive an encounter with Yuka

>>6920629
A mere possibility that was not stated.

>>6920636
You said, or presumably you said, "you think Akyu could survive a encounter with Yuka?" presumably rhetorically. Is this not the case?

>>6920630
Flandre is the easiest example, since she's been in the basement for 495 years.

>>6920630
Flandre has been stuck in a basement for 500 years and is highly hostile to humans.

>Gensokyo is populated by little girls with flat chests.

No wonder the men are never mentioned. They're too busy boozing it up at the bar wallowing in sorrow at being stuck in a shitty world where every female is a little girl with no rude tits.

Gensokyo must be one boring shithole.

>>6920630
She could have asked any of the PCB heroines or Aya for a description, or it could based off of one of Aya's photos.

>Hi, I'm making a book. Would you mind sitting for a portrait?

>Yeah, uh, sure. Wasn't doing anything today anyways.

If there's anything we can take from PMISS it's that Gensokyo is still a laid-back place, even if its inhabitants are dangerous.

They all look to be about 5'-5' 2" tall.

I'd scare the shit out of everyone if I appeared in Gensokyo

6'3" here.

>Flandre has been stuck in a basement for 500 years and is highly hostile to humans.

Which is why our heroines get lit up with danmaku instead of being, say, dead. Sure.

>>6920699
It sure is better than around here where every woman has two huge pairs of tits and a giant belly to go along with them.

>>6920730
All I'm saying is that, while lolis are nice, you gotta have some variety man.

>>6920706
ZUN has said many times, I remember one song description from PCB saying that ''no matter how the dialogue before the battle may be, both girls will always be relaxed during the battle''.

>>6920738
I'm fine with different hair colors, eye colors, and other subtle differences.

>>6920765
YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND

>>6920738
There are indeed women with breasts in Gensokyo.

The argument here is that seemingly a few of the most popular ones turn out to be flat in canon.

>>6920745
This is why I get extra mad when everyone portrays it as a typical screaming anime power battle in the sky. If you want that, you have your choice of a million other series.

The Perfectly Flat and Elegant Maid.

>>6920730
I envy you.

>>6920597
She's a chronicler. Give her some credit.

Man, it'd be nice if someone conceded a point once in a while around here. That way we could at least have the illusion of progress.

I'll go first. Today I learned that Yuka is canonically flat-chested.

>>6921007
Today I learned that Aki Eda did the art for Perfect Memento in Strict Sense.

>>6921007
Today I learned why Akyu is the author of the Gensokyo Chronicles, and not ZUN. Also the artist.

>>6921007
People sometimes cannot handle other's depiction of canon being different from theirs. There are clear canon evidences though, like the one you mentioned.

Today I learned that a lot of people tend to obsess over canon and reject fanon because apparently the former makes you a better person.

>>6921050
We are debating for fun, it wouldn't be /jp/ without taking it easy.

>>6921069
Even though this thread gives me a headache I'm glad we can have a 200 post argument with very little namecalling and reaction faces.

Everyone in Gensokyo is canonically a cute little girl.
Enjoy your fanon constructs anyway. Or should I say fanon implants?

>>6921097

No they are not, shut the fuck up Jewish faggot.

You obviously haven't read the manga.

>Even though this thread gives me a headache I'm glad we can have a 200 post argument with very little namecalling and reaction faces.

Even without the namecalling, we've been rude in this thread. Just in a slightly more eloquent way. And reaction faces are just an add-on. They can complement a post.

>>6923544
Yeah but without posts like >>6921109 the rudeness is much more tolerable. And I meant reaction face posts that just have a single line meant to piss the other guy off.

See this image right here?

You could all learn from it, /jp/.

While you may prefer a certain breast size, you should learn to appreciate breasts of all different shapes and sizes.