/jp/ - Otaku Culture

No. Go to >>>/a/, they love to talk about Fate/stay night.

I don't like it so it's shit

"If x is x, then x is x"
"It can't be helped"

It's ok.

>>6855376
you have a serious argumentation here, sir

Most of /jp/ agrees that this is the best VN ever made.

FSN is the shit, TM has one of the worst fanbases, so SHIT

>>6855397
At least until hollow/atraxia is translated...

>>6855397
Good joke.

But it's ok.

F/SN doesn't need any help proving itself as shit.

>>6855370
Other than introducing me to Saber hentai, I really took nothing out of it. I just didn't care for it.

Because every visual novel has to be emoid faggot shit for hipsters

Was godly, i can now read Japanese, and have a massive interest in something more thanks to F/SN anime and VN. It actually inspired me (college dropout, 1.5GPA in HS) to study countless hours. It is anything but shit, imo.

FSN left scars on me that will never heal
when i realized i was fucking King Arthur

>>6855474
But...she was so hot

Never could finish it because it bored me to tears, so I really don't know. I've read nukige that were more fun to read, even if you took out the sex scenes.

>>6855502
If F/SN bores you, how can you finish ANY VN?

it doesn't have enough Ilya

It lasts way too fucking long, almost every character is an unlikable piece of shit, the protagonist has the IQ of a muskrat, all the smart choices lead to a game over, the sex scenes are awkward, the food related scenes are dull, the author expects you to cheer for his shallow high school nihilism in the last act.

I still enjoyed it.

>>6856099

You need to play Sakura's route.

>>6856155
are you sure you're describing F/SN and not SWAN SONG? because either those two are really similar or I'm going insane

>>6856155
>all the smart choices lead to a game over
>all the smart choices
Wow really. Please ellaborate on this.

It doesnt have a Caster route

And Caster is the best.

...I want to nibble her ears

>>6856165
she was my favourite thing about that route by a long shot

>>6856805
>It doesnt have an Ilya route
>And Ilya is the best.
>...I want to be her servant

Fixed that for you

I had to stop reading it because of all the boring flashbacks and cooking scenes.

>>6856792
It's unreasonable to think that you'd survive an attack from Berserker unless you know about the sheath thing, which you aren't supposed to.

>>6856792
Your slutty stalker is killing everyone in town. The best way to save the town and win the Holy Grail war is to kill her.

1. Kill her MIND OF STEEL You win the war but now you're an empty killing shell. GAME OVER. Kiritsugu laughs at you.
2. Don't kill her Herps derps derp. Best character dies. You die. Kiritsugu laughs at you.

>>6856830
I know that feel

>>6856882
Shirou outright says in his inner monologue that he's certain he can make it to her in time.

>>6856898
But Lancer was already dead by that point.

>>6856200
I don't see enough similarities. Even if Swan Song were too long since it only lasts about two days to read, it hardly really matters. I don't even know how long I've been trying to read FSN for. There isn't really a true protagonist to Swan Song to consider stupid, the sex scenes aren't as weirdly placed as some in FSN, and even if the food related scenes are dull in Swan Song, they seemed very appropriate because what else have you to look forward to when there's nothing else to do?

>>6856882
Ok. Although, the situation looked rather hopeless even with them fleeing, but yeah.
I won't say it's not unreasonable, but in either case, only to explain his side of it.
Sure he didn't know of the sheath, though he did know what little he knew about magic. And he betted it all on it to work, using it as his protection.
But yes, granted that it was naiive and stupid, although also granted that he thought he was going to die either way.

But I can't exactly remember any similair choices.
This one was one really early on in the story, Shirou is still a complete novice when it even comes to the theory of magic, and his grasp on the extent of its effects is also slim. But he did know of the idea of strengthening.

But other than this choice, I believe many seems to forget the fact that Shirou was never interested in winning the warto begin with.

The best route would be one where Shirou had Caster and Lancer as his servants.

Endless amusement as he dices with death every time he opens his mouth to say something stupid

>>6856937
>Dem ears and Dat Cu Chulain route
I'd read it.

>>6856908
But wasn't he wrong?

>>6856955
Yes, but you wouldn't know that unless you took the choice in the first place.

>>6856898
Not to protect f/sn or anything, but you do realize that both 1 and 2 went against the ideal, right?
1 was more direct about it however wheras 2 had instances of possible yet very plausible casualties in the larger numbers.
But neither was acceptable. Choice 1 wasn't simply to turn his mind into STEEL and be all COOL and BADASS, or why else all the cool kids like this path or something.
But turning his mind into steel was basically him going all hurr on himself and denying the fact that he kept on doing the wrong thing, the unacceptable things he have since long known was never allowed.
Sacrifices were never something Archer nor Shirou accepted. They felt pressured and forced to it, and they did it out of fear.

I don't get why it's such a popular ending.

>>6856961
People like Mind of Steel because it gets rid of Sakura early on and avoids nearly all of the bullshit of HF.

>>6856966
But it still ends with bullshit.
But I agree it cuts off a lot of other bullshit by cutting off the story short.
But something about that line of reasoning doesn't exactly strike me as the best either.

i thought the setting was good but i just couldn't get into the the characters. and the story overall was meh. however i see how it can be appealing but it's nowhere near best vn ever made.

>>6856957
That doesn't excuse it. If you correctly realize that Shirou is kinda dense and that servants are incomparable to humans, and predict that Shirou will probably get lethally wounded if he tries to protect Saber, you lose. It's like you're being encouraged not to think about anything.

>>6857011
It was a hopeless situation, no one could do anything and Berserker was simply too inhuman and too much of a monster.
What could he had done? The answer is nothing.
But he felt he had to do something, but what could he have done, he couldn't do anything, right?
Yes, by himself he wouldn't be able to do anything, but he had a trick, he had magic.
With magic he might have been able to do something, though how plausible is still not easily calculated, it may be slim or next to nothing. But with magic there is a chance that wouldn't exist otherwise.
So if something can be done, then what should be done?!
Saving the girl that has been beaten half to death for your sake is possible. Saving this girl has to be done.

Also keep in mind how he still did not know much about servants or magic at all at this point. Also keep in mind of he also most certainly believed he had better grasp on the subject than he had.

I won't say the scene isn't bad, but with this in mind I can't say I find it unacceptable or outright horrible.

>>6855374
/jp/ - Touhou general eh?

Autistic manchildren such as yourself disgust me.

It was good, not great but good.

>>6856908
>Shirou outright says in his inner monologue that he's certain he can make it to her in time.

It's not a question of if he can make it, it's a question of WHY THE FUCK WOULD HE DO IT. Number one, Saber is far, far, far, far, FAR more qualified to fight than Shirou and number two, it's been established that if Shirou dies, Saber has his power source cut and is erased. The logical thing to do is to be nowhere near the fucking fight so of course the "correct" thing to do is to protect the invincible legendary warrior queen spirit from the towering death colossus with your very mortal and frail body. MAKES PERFECT FUCKING SENSE AMIRITE?

That's just one of the many cases where the player is forced to pick the stupidest possible course of action (to simulate Shirou's stupidity no doubt) and Shirou survives through sheer bullshit luck and writer fiat.

>>6858481
You don't GET Shirou's character do you.

>>6858510

Shirou's entire body is like a giant glowing weak spot for Saber. Shirou trying to take a blow meant for Saber makes no sense, it's the equivalent of a martial artist blocking a kick aimed at his legs with his nuts.

It's not even the matter of whether his "ideal" is dumb or not. It's that the way he pursues it is the stupidest possible and a guaranteed route to defeat. He doesn't make a single intelligent decision in the entire VN and would have self-destructed in every route without supernatural safeguards keeping his Darwin Award winning ass alive despite his wishes.

>>6858724
But the whole point of Shirou is that he's broken and with deep psychological issues.
Agreed, Nasu could have gone about it in a more subtle way than always saving him with Avalon, but still saying "he puts himself at risk when Saber is a knight he's dumb XD" means you really didn't pay attention to the narrative.

tsukihime was way better than fatestay

If I wanted to read a mind of steel ending, I'd read Fate/Zero.

seconding this >>6858746

fate protag sucks balls

>>6858746
all the endings where meh though, and it left me with a feeling that it could of been so much better. akihas ending was shit and made me rage.

>>6858754
you serious dude. the ahika ending where shiki gave his life for her was awesome

>>6858750
In all honesty, Shiki isn't exactly any better.

>>6858724
You are forgetting 2 things.

Shirou was far from familiar with the concept of the master/servant relationship. The magus type of action wouldn't rise as an idea to him in a natural way.

And, you may have missed the point where Shirou didn't want to fight at all, and he certainly didn't want her to fight.
It had little to do with being capable or not.
Besides, she was getting her ass handed to her repeatidly, and she was injured. She does fight a lot later on.
This alone also doesn't make you retarded. If this is enough, then wow do I wonder what would happen if one were to rate other type moon characters like Shiki objectively like this or whatever following the same standards.

>>6858758
i like the idea that shiki can be like any normal guy, with cancer. he knows he wont live long and he accepts that and just goes with the flow of things. however shirou, just like any generic shonen protag you see out there does the usual i want to be the hero of justice and such

>>6858755

No, that was ass. But the Akiha ending where she becomes a mindless drooling puppet, that was great. And Akiha in general is a much better written tsundere than Rin.

Hisui's normal (non-good) ending was amazing, though the route itself seemed to last forever. It certainly didn't help any that Kohaku's route was 90% a repeat of Hisui's.

The worst ending was probably Ciel Good, if only because Arcueid stole it. Arcueid has her own damn endings, she should stay in those.

As for FSN vs. Turkeyhandle, I think it's a draw. Most of Tsukihimay characters didn't piss me off, but they didn't make me feel much of anything else either. FSN made me constantly angry at everyone and everything in it, but it made feel genuine emotions.

>>6858769

The male Shiki has at least 20-30 points of IQ over Shirou. He has some awkward dialogue where he asks about things that were just talked about or fails to pick up social cues, but he never does anything as facepalmingly dumbshit retarded as, say, not killing Ilya when he has the chance.

>>6858770
i know how you feel bro, i hate pricks like those

>>6858775
You are right. Instead he rapes the maids.
No seriously, his character is also flawed.

Also, what are you talking about? He makes retarded descicions such as fighting super vampires and vampire hunters, and all the while the most powerful being in the universe is next to him and all the more capable.

>>6858775
>killing Ilya
This just invalidated everything you just said.

>>6858775
>retarded
>because of not killing
Now aren't you edgy and cool?

It's shit because it resolves entirely around Shirou, therefor every characters act like a complete moron so Shitrou can get his shit done with his haxs.

The writing his fucking awful "Magi do alliances. Like you and Rin, you guys are in an alliance"

The servants are underused, and the battlers are just hax vs hax

Several characters are underdevelopment, Rin is a fucking shitty heroine with NO character development despite the fact she has tons of space in every route.

Overall, it was a failure in almost every aspect

It's like Naruto, except in VN format.

It's poorly written, the characters suck and the fanbase likes it because it's babby's first. And of course, they are oblivious to these facts.

>>6858770
>however shirou, just like any generic shonen protag you see out there does the usual i want to be the hero of justice and such
It's still up to you to see if you like him or not.
It's usually not hammered down that these shonen protags are naïve and that their way of life doesn't work.
They usually also don't get the kind of character developement as he does and there is also the other side of the coin that is Archer.

I would argue that they make it perfectly clear how brittle this shonen hero facade actually is, and since it is actually taken into account in his character developement I don't find it so bad.
UBW and HF are great in this regard, especially when put up against eachother as the character developement plays on some of the same themes but goes in very different directions.

>Saber
>Legendary King that lead many battlers
>Charge Caster's temple alone without his master and allies, despite the fact she didn't know who the fuck was there

>>6858813
>Rin is a fucking shitty heroine with NO character development
I actually read your post thinking you may perhaps not be stupid. But this invalidates everything you have written as it makes it obvious you have no reading comprehension.

>>6858824

What's Rin character development?
"Hurr Sakura yes, you can call me.. sis"
"Yes Shirou... you can thrust his magic circuit inside mine"

>>6858837
Typical reader who skips over all the "boring" scenes significance in favor of the flashy bitz.
I bet you tried to finish the game as fast you could.

>>6858793
>>6858798

If you subdued your lolicon instincts for a bit you'd notice that Illya is a completely and utterly evil superpowered little sadistic psychopath who attempted to torturerapemurder Shirou and all his new friends not even seconds before that point. Leaving her alive when Saber was about to kill her was the most irrational and irresponsible thing Shirou did before leaving Sakura alive, and that's saying a lot since irrational and irresponsible are adjectives that pertain to god damn near everything Shirou does.

I almost headbutted the monitor at that point.

>>6858788
>He makes retarded descicions such as fighting super vampires and vampire hunters, and all the while the most powerful being in the universe is next to him and all the more capable.

Bollocks. Arcueid specifically recruited and practically forced him to fight for her. He was never given an out option. More than that, turns out Shiki is fucking amazing at killing things, even though he doesn't quite understand it at first.

That's completely different from Shirou's DURRR IMMA BLOCK UR SWERD WITH MY FACE NAO HURRRR.

>>6858860

Not really, i read everything.. expect HF last part because it really couldn't take anymore, and i wanted just to end that shit.

>>6858860

Typical fanbitch who grasps for straws to defend her shitty game.

Rin had NO character development. She was an insecure angry cunt in the beginning and she was an insecure angry cunt in the end, every route.

>>6858837
To begin with the personality further down the layers starts to strengthens in various ways as the story progresses.
She also has a struggle between her magus persona and her more casual persona.
There is also character developement present in her analysing Archer's/Shirou's ideal and view of things, views that has been more or less alien to her before.

But all the this perhaps covers the basics, there is of course a lot more. I would seriously argue that she is one of the TM characters that receive the most developement.
But that doesn't have to mean you like her.

>>6858874

That's not fucking development. She was that at the very fucking START of the INTRO.

Development is when you gradually CHANGE.

>>6858864
>and practically forced him to fight for her
That might have been the initial premise
But
hahaohwow.jpg
that is not the case.

>More than that, turns out Shiki is fucking amazing at killing things, even though he doesn't quite understand it at first.
He has a special abillity, but he is still not much other than small fry for the DAAs, and say, the top of the church.

The only reason he manages to do most of his actiony things is because of insane plot armour.

>>6858882
So every character must develop a completely different personality over the course of a game to have "character development" and be good? Yeah, no. Rin had subtle, but very important changes in her mindset during the game, because that's what she dealt with warranted.
Contrary to what anime may lead you to believe, a character doesn't suddenly change for the better in the space of a few days, especially when she was brought up to behave in a certain manner since she was little.

>>6858882
Wait. How did you miss what I wrote?
"strengthens", "struggle" (if its resolved), "analasys of alien ideas".
All of this implies change. And there was change in the actual story.
Don't tell me you couldn't look past her front-up persona/mask?

It's true that Rin's development felt a bit weak.
But honestly you could say the same about every characters not named Shirou.

>>6858887 So every character must develop a completely different personality over the course of a game to have "character development" and be good?
Well, Rin would at least need this to be good.

>>6858894

Saber had development

>>6858896
Weak development.
I didn't say she didn't have any, it just felt bland and generic to hell.

>>6858895
Ok, but that's your own tastes speaking. Tell me you hate Rin, great, I have no problem with that, but saying she doesn't develop just because you don't like her is a bit of a biased judgment.

>>6858896
If one is to go by the same manner of criticism the others have gotten then one can easily simply Saber's development as realizing "she was wrong" and even then that's only in one route.

>>6858906
Of course this is a simplification that doesn't hold its own merit.

>/jp/ - Seroius discussion in troll threads

You know, I always liked Shirou despite him being dumb as a rock. When he did something stupid it always got more of a "Oh Shirou, you're so silly" reaction from me than actual anger.

That and I approved of his HERO OF JUSTICE ideal.

The 5th Grail War is a bullshit war fought by women and children for the most part. The Masters are inexperienced and ill-prepared. Shirou is fucked in the head. Rin lets her humanity compromise her chances of victory. Sakura is a slut. Kotomine understands all this, and uses these flaws to realise his goals and almost does.
Fate route is fucking stupid. UBW makes a little bit more sense. HF is the most interesting in terms of character interplay.

Kotomine almosts wins out in HF because he was in the last Grail War. Zero is better because the characters have more complexity and chemistry. There are skilled professionals in the story who have interesting conflicts that aren't just about hax.

>>6858978
Would you rather have troll discussions in serious threads?

>>6858998
>That and I approved of his HERO OF JUSTICE ideal.

Same here. Even if I never managed to recover from my last facepalm over Shirou's stupidity before it was time for the next one, I could at least approve of the fact that he was a good guy. He was a hardline altruist, even a bit too much of one (his abusive "friendship" with Shinji is something he should have called off early, you don't need to be nice anymore when the other guy is clearly just using you). There's a certain amount of appeal in a mental defective trying to do the right thing in a mean world, like Forrest Gump.

Then Nasu had to go and fuck up even that one good thing. God HF sucks.

>>6859037
Are you're implying that we have serious threads?

Still F/SN would be pretty good as a movie (not Anime).
IF you leave out the whole fucking for mana thing

>>6858724

This thread is painful to read

>>6859044
Honestly saving Sakura seemed much more altruistic than killing her to me.

>>6860025

They didn't consider killing her just to be dicks, you know. Firstly, Sakura would and did continue killing people. You never hear of this again. Shirou's mind and body are utterly destroyed. He magically gets put into a doll which was never even considered to be possible beforehand and doesn't even make sense.

And this is just a personal gripe, but I felt much more railroaded in this route than the others. The reader is constantly presented with choices which allow them to 'do the right thing' and kill Sakura/save saber/defend ideals etc. However, if you do these things you either get out of nowhere deaths or a bad ending. It seemed like they were trying to make us feel responsible, but in reality I just felt like the story was presenting me with options but not letting me pick the ones it didn't like.

>>6856898
Your innocent girlfriend is being possessed at night by a man-eating demon. Your dad would have chosen to kill her, but he also regretted his stupid ideal and never wanted you to follow it.

1. Fuck it, I'm not gonna kill her immediately just to save some strangers, I'll protect her and look for a way to save both. (1 week later) While some sacrifices had to be made, we saved eachother from our horrible fates in the end and are able to live happily as human beings.
2. DURR IMMA REPEAT MY DADS MISTAKE IM SO COOL AND EDGY Y DOS TIGR DOJO CALL ME STUPID

>>6860029
I don't care about the reason, you can't ever convince me that killing someone who's suffered all her life is justice.

>>6860036
>>just to save some strangers

This part right here ruins whatever point you were trying to make. If your girlfriend is killing "some strangers", you will fucking DO something about it or you are an abomination.

>>6860046

Hitler suffered all his life.

>>6860014
Lately, /jp/ is being painful to read.

>>6860051
Yeah, kill her instead right. What a joke.

>>6860052
So? Sakura wasn't responsible for anything. Don't try to sugarcoat it.

>>6860055
kill the conduit of angra mainyu to save the world, sounds a reasonable enough plan
(if it weren't for rin and her jewel sword sorcery everyone would've been boned)

>>6860029
>Firstly, Sakura would and did continue killing people.
Except for Zouken, Kotomine and possibly Shinji, she didn't kill a single person. It was all Angra Mainyu.
>He magically gets put into a doll which was never even considered to be possible beforehand and doesn't even make sense.
Ever read the bad end where you choose to become Illya's servant in Fate?

>>6860051
As far as Shirou knew, Sakura killing people was just something that might happen in the future. Jumping at the chance to off her before she had even done anything makes him an even worse abomination.

>>6860055

You seem to imply there's something wrong with that logic.

Consider a dog. A dog that started out as an innocent puppy who wanted just to frolick in the field, chase after its tail, smell the assholes of every critter that came across, but instead he was trapped in a razorwire cage by a huge bastard and electrocuted until it was grown up. It now attacks everything in sight.

Is it sad? yeah. Is the huge bastard the one at fault? Absolutely.

BUT YOU STILL PUT THE DOG DOWN.

>>6860069
>she didn't kill a single person. It was all Angra Mainyu.
nah, he just amplified the negative emotions or vice versa iirc

>>6860071
But you don't call it justice. And you certainly aren't any less of an abomination if you do.

>>6860061

You don't really get it. It doesn't matter what Sakura is responsible of. She still needed to die. Her sister understood it. In her sane moments she understood it herself.

Only Shirou, guided by his dick and his stupidity, didn't think so.

>>6860071
That's a lousy example. Putting it down would be logical thing, but the whole fucking point of the fucking route is that you can't put him down because you value all the cherished memories of when it was a puppy, and instead prefer to send it to a dog institution or something to heal him even though it could attack the personell there.
The people attacked aren't going to be magically healed back in any case.
The whole fucking point was that Shirou couldn't do the right thing to do because of personal emotions. It was the whole fucking point, christ.

>>6860078

What? The person who kills the dog has done nothing wrong. he has only done what had to be done. The only person in that scenario that was ever at fault was the Huge Bastard. If it is possible to punish him, sure, go for it. But the dog needs to die and the person who kills it does nothing wrong.

Also, deliberately leaving the dog alive, where it's a danger to random passersby ("just some strangers")) is an evil act. It's prioritizing your own personal comfort over the wellbeing of your fellow men.

Why is every route's climax Shirou stabbing somebody?

Fate - Shirou stabbing Kotomine.
UBW - Shirou stabbing Archer
HF - Shirou stabbing Sakura. (with Rule Breaker, that is)

>>6860090

And that's why Shirou is shit, just like Sakura and all of Heaven's Feel.

>>6860071
The abuse wasn't what drove it mad, it had been infected with rabies (Angra Mainyu), which was worsened by its old owner (Rin) coming back just to treat it like shit and kill it. Shirou realized that it would go back to normal if he cured it, and he succeeded. Rin was in the wrong for jumping to conclusions before even trying.
>>6860076
That was for Dark Sakura, the shadow was Angra Mainyu taking over her body.

>>6860099

Phallic symbolism.

>>6860097
And that's fine, you can think the direction Heaven's Feel took is shit, but for the love of god don't mistake the plot going in a direction you don't like with a character being stupid. The character doesn't have to think like you do.

As horrible insulting garbage as HF was, I did like the ending where Shioru dies and guilt and loneliness drive Sakura into a catatonic state. where she just waits forever for the hubby who will not return. It seemed like an appropriate end result for their callous disregard of human life.

The "fanfic end" as it's known was of course horrible.

>>6860108
>The character doesn't have to think like you do.

Actually, when I'm making the decisions for the character, he damn well does.

>>6860097
>>6860112

HF was weird because it both tried to do something more morally ambiguous yet still keep the 王道 (royal road) feeling.
It just doesn't really work.

>>6860115
So all it boils down is an hilarious "But he doesn't behave like I want him to, this sucks ;_;"

Sparks Liner High is the true ending for me.
If I wanted to watch a "happily ever after" ending, I would watch some Disney movie.

And what about the "And then she went to feed herself by her own will" part, after she eats Gilgamesh?

>>6860122
>they don't like something I like
>LOL U MAD????

>>6860165
She was half-dead and acting on pure survival instinct, it wasn't a conscious decision. She also wanted to die as soon as she realized what had happened.

>>6860186
>wanted to die
You horrible people, trying to deny Sakura what she wants.

It's not shit, it contains ancient Japanese wisdom, such as 人は殺されれば死ぬ。

>>6860186
>instinct, it wasn't a conscious decision. She also wanted to die as soon as she realized what had happened
sounds like a typical slut excuse

>>6860125
>It just doesn't really work.
Yes, but this was also the point, so in that regard in did work.
HF tried to present a situation where his ideal were to be broken no matter Shirou's course of actions.
The dilemma he arrives at in the middle of HF's climax is a tough one.

Leaving the source of what will most likely continue to kill countless of people continiously is unacceptable.
But sacrifices are also unacceptable, Sakura never wanted this.

You should also keep in mind how their ideal cares little for quantity, it's simply to save everyone, it's a true or false ideal.
One or hundered both breaks the ideal.

Shirou did, in both paths, want to save everyone.
In path he accepts the idea of compromise, one sacrifice because it's not plausible to save people otherwise.
In the other, he doesn't accept a sacrifice, and doesn't compromise on his ideal, instead he wants to save her before further harm is done, although it isn't plausible to do it before further casualties happens, or at all for that matter.

The question of whether or not the ends justifies the means pops up. Sacrifices were always out of the question, but so were casualties.
Mind of Steel Shirou, as well as Archer in similair situations, they compromised and accepted sacrifices as they feared they wouldn't be able to save people otherwise. But they still never wanted to sacrifice anyone.
HF Shirou on the otherhand couldn't accept such a thing, and Iliya said it herself that even children knows to protect their loved ones.
Truly, from an innocent point of view, there were no question to begin with, it's just that reality is cruel. But even if reality is cruel, that doesn't necessarily means that the ends justifies the means.

>>6860329
Both of the choices were out of question.
The special thing about HF is how Shirou's feelings is finally given some leeway despite how cruel the situation may be.
The ideal breaks no matter his actions, so rather than questions of right and wrong, Shirou can finally consider what he prefers. But it doesn't change the fact how he wanted to save everyone until the end. He just couldn't accept a sacrifice in one, which in turn actually makes it the path where his ideal isn't compromised on.

>>6860329
>>6860331
My main problem wasn't that.
It was that in the end there was no real consequences for Shirou or Sakura's actions.
He always kept the moral high ground, the big enemy still ended being the big bad evil.

>>6860365
All the evils of the world is sadly going to stay evil no matter the protagonist's actions, or so I would assume.

But Kotomine? That fight was between two madmen, one just happened to be a bit more alien than the other.
But he still isn't exactly any worse than he was in F/Z or something. It is just the added elements of all the evils of the world that makes things go haywire.
And all while D&D alignments doesn't work in the end, Kotomine would roughly be something as interesting as Chaotic Neutral I guess.

>>6860422
>But he still isn't exactly any worse than he was in F/Z or something.
I dunno man, homolusting after Shirou instead of Kiritsugu seems a bit worse. I mean, Kiritsugu at least had that manly gumshoe thing going on, but Shirou, he doesn't really have anything going for him aside from not being dead at the moment.

>>6860434
Seeing a similarly broken/conflicted man who has now become literally the bone of his swords is appealing I guess