/jp/ - Otaku Culture

not this shit again

HERE WE GO AGAIN

HERE WE GO

not an accurate representation of all servants since berserker is the weakest one

His brain would explode before he would be able to even cut the servant.

Nasu said so don't bother him about it.
>>6826762
Its sad when he's supposed to be the strongest but yeah in the game he was pretty much the weakest.

Has Nasu even said anything about this?

>>6826793
Everyone is weak to plot armor. And Gil cheats.

>>6826762
It begins.

>>6826794
Yes he said that the only way shiki could win is if he murdered the magus on a surprise attack.

>>6826807
Any sources?

Also, is Type-Moon Complex X even canon?

The only Servants Shiki can cut and kill to pieces are Gil (because Grail corruption gave him a body) and Saber (because she has a body). Not sure if other Grail corrupted Servants can be killed by Shiki, but well, you get it.

If Nasu upgrades Shiki's brain to withstand or understand everything without blowing up, well, all bets are off.

Nasu doesn't give a fuck about Tsukihime anymore.

>>6826817
One of the older interveiws.

Nasu has negated so much canon in those its funny.

Also complex was never canon are you retarded?

>>6826828
>Are you retarded?

Yes.

I didn't read it.

What I want to know is if Ryougi Shiki can kill Servants, given that her eyes are stronger that Tohno Shiki's. She might be able to see lines of death on Servants without her brain melting.

On the other hand, she doesn't have any Nanaya blood, just traditional sword training.

>>6826819
>Gil (because Grail corruption gave him a body)
Somebody got that pic where Shiki destroys a surprised Gilgamesh?

>>6826852
Her eyes aren't stronger than Shiki's. They just cut different things.

She would have a hard time trying to kill any DAA and especially Arcueid.

>>6826853
This?

>>6826794
Yes, he did.

He also said Bazett can cap both Shiki and Shirou's ass.

>>6826866
DAT FACE

Does it matter Shiki's bitches are ten times hotter and more powerful he can just tell them to do it.

>>6826871
But Ciel can cap her ass IIRC.

>>6826828
What has he said that's contradictory?

>>6826852
Her eyes are weaker than male shiki's she just has fucking god personality mode and superhuman doll parts.

his eyes continue to grow in strength as well.

How far along is Type-Moon Complex anyways? I remember reading volume 2 a couple years ago but that's it. Are they still making them or did they just quit?

Servants are already dead.
They are essentially what normal things are after having had their dots stabbed by him.
They are a mix between that which is dead and that which is both alien and not part of the real world.
Shiki can neither kill things that are already dead, nor things that are alien.

And the very reason for the massive mana cost required for sustaining them is also because it is what is fighting Gaia's power to keep things the way they actually are, be it dead or non-existant.
A stab by Shiki wouldn't make Gaia make them die any faster, as Gaia is already trying to make them dissapear to the best of its capabilities.

At best, Shiki would be able to mimic some qualities of Rule Breaker, and sever the contract keeping them alive.
That is something that would work somewhat instant-ish on the Berserker class, but then there is the Archer class on which it would have little effect.

Shiki could never keep up with a Servant.
Furthermore, he would not be able to perceive Berserker's lines without perceiving God Hand's lines, which would make his brain explode instantly (attempting to perceive the death of a divine mystery). His knife would pass right through them anyway, since you have to have at least some magical element to your weapon to harm a spirit.

Many, many things interfere with Shiki being able to kill a Servant.

Haven't you guys played Battle Moon Wars? Of course he can!

>>6826943
>Servants are already dead.
That's not how it works. As long as it exists, it's their. Shiki has killed dead things before in Tsukihime.

That's not the problem.

The problem is that Shiki still has a lot of shit he can't understand. The moment some plot device lets him understand with his brain or his brain gets an upgrade, then there is no telling what the fuck he can kill.

>>6826971
>God's Hand
Only Ryougi's eyes would even see God's Hand. Tohno Shiki's eyes IGNORES all external/internal factors. He just sees your end, the end of your existence. That's it. Even if you had a barrier field covering your body, it means nothing to Tohno Shiki's version of the MEoDP. He's not targeting shit like God's Hand, he's only targeting you.

>>6827081

Then his knife breaks on God Hand because he cannot reach Berserker's real dots.

>>6826943
Shiki has killed dead things before. The super lowlevel followers of Roa. What Shiki kills are what exists.

If it exists, if it can be destroyed, he can kill it.

The limitation is if he can physically keep up with killing his target and if he can understand that things destruction at that certain point in time.

>>6827098
What part of IGNORE can't you read? God's Hand does not exist in front of his MEoDP.

The problem is if Shiki can understand Berserker's destruction at the time they fought. As of now, he can't do it. But if he could understand Berserker's destruction, God's Hand means nothing to MEoDP.

This is a fantastic thread. Keep up the good work, gentlemen.

>>6827106
>The problem is if Shiki can understand Berserker's destruction at the time they fought.
Maybe he can kill Black Berserker. Grail corruption gives them corporal bodies, right?

Glad to see that some things never changes on /jp/.

And, yes Shiki can kill servants.
I don't have a reason. He's just cooler than Shirou.

>>6827106

Excuse me? Just because he doesn't perceive it doesn't mean barriers don't exist.
You mentioned Ryougi.
Remember that Ryougi could not approach Araya Souren due to the Rokudou Kyoukai.

God Hand would block Shiki's blade, it makes it much worse that he WOULDN'T see its dots because it's something he can't simply pass through.

>>6827106
I agree, the Shiki at the end of Tsukihime would burst his head open trying to kill a regular servant.
An infected ('Alter') one would be no problem.. given he can get to them before they cut his head off

>>6827140
God's Hand doesn't work like that. It doesn't work like a super barrier that extends that far. Ryougi's eyes work differently than Tohno's.

Her eyes CANNOT ignore barriers and external factors. She has to break them down first. The older the target, the harder the time it takes for her to understand.

Tohno Shiki's eyes just ignores everything. If you don't have a super gigantic barrier guarding you that would prevent Shiki from getting at least a half inch of his knife inside of your body, you will be erased from existence.

>>6827161

>Tohno Shiki's eyes just ignores everything

Where the fuck did you get this from, my dear boy?

>>6827171
Arcueid says it herself in Tsukihime. That is also the understanding of "Tohno's" eyes in canon.

>>6827177

At no point do I recall anything like that at all. Cite your description.

And furthermore, what evidence would that even stand up against a Noble Phantasm? Noble Phantasms are divine mysteries that do the impossible anyway.

>>6827171
You know the reason as to how Shiki ignores Arcueid's instant regen, Nero's requirement of a massive blast to destroy, or how it stopped Roa from reincarnating? Arc said it herself. That is the difference with Shiki's eyes and Ryogi's. And that is why Nasu gave Shiki the limitation with what his brain understood. Because Shiki has the potential to basically kill almost anything as long as his brain is able or made to understand things.

Consequently, Ryogi's eyes are much easier used in killing concepts than Shiki can, but at the same time, the older the thing is, the more mysterious it becomes, the harder it is to ascertain for her in how to kill her target. DAAs and Arcueid becomes far more formidable for her in that situation.

>>6827206

>You know the reason as to how Shiki ignores Arcueid's instant regen, Nero's requirement of a massive blast to destroy, or how it stopped Roa from reincarnating?

Regeneration, reincarnation, or sheer defense are not fucking mystical ultrabarriers given from gods on high.

>>6827206

>You know the reason as to how Shiki ignores Arcueid's instant regen, Nero's requirement of a massive blast to destroy, or how it stopped Roa from reincarnating?

Plot Armor? It's plot armor. Right?

>With these Mystic Eyes, Shiki is able to see the eventual fated destruction of an object or entity expressed as small points on the object or entity's body and as thin black lines that extend from those points and crawl over the body. Attendant with the perception is the ability to trace the lines without much exertion; doing so effectively realizes the fated destruction, and the victim is cut or cracked or broken along those lines. Because this destruction is destined, this method of injury ignores any of the victim's defenses; armor, magical protection, regeneration, and so forth are useless. While a line symbolizes "damage" along that part of the body, a dot symbolizes the totality of that body's damage, and by extension, "existence". When a dot is pierced, the victim's concept is destroyed. This method of killing is apparently absolute; it bypasses even reincarnation, and can even be used against a collective entity.

>>6827186
Arcueid explaining to Shiki about his MEoDP, that it can ignore external factors and the like, that Shiki is much more of a monster than she is, because of his eyes.

Nasu has also said that Shiki at full power can kill Shirou's Noble Phantasms easily.

In the end, Shiki's MEoDP's target is not God's Hand, it would be Berserker. God's Hand would basically not function against Shiki's knife/finger as Berserker just completely disappears no matter how many lives he has, like Nero did. He disappears, God's Hand cannot revive something that doesn't exist anymore since Berserker just returned to the Throne of Heroes.

The limiter on Shiki is that currently, he cannot understand the destruction of a Servant. The point of destruction is there, he just can't understand it yet.

Well, except Gil and Saber, because they have physical forms.

>>6827215
Arcueid is the ORIGINAL ONE. All gods in Nasuverse are copies of her. Nasu made that so in his game called Fate/Extra. And Shiki basically cut her into pieces.

>>6827215
Sorry, but ultrabarrier or not, it is ignored. MEoDP is that hax. It's your blessing that Nasu capped a limit on Shiki by making him unable to understand high level concepts as of yet. Pray that Nasu never gives Shiki such a limit release, because Nasu has said that at full power, Shiki can destroy Noble Phantasms.

So, it seems the general consensus is that it's possible for Shiki to do so, given that he can "understand" the Servants. However, as we know him by the end of Tsukihime, he wouldn't be able to at that time.

>>6827243

>Arcueid is the ORIGINAL ONE.

No, she's a copy of the original one.

>All gods in Nasuverse are copies of her.

That isn't right at all. Gods are human's ideals, Arcueid is a nature spirit like faeries and elementals.

>Nasu made that so in his game called Fate/Extra.

Canon with a bigass grain of salt

>And Shiki basically cut her into pieces.

She has no physical barriers whatsoever.

>>6827231

>Nasu has also said that Shiki at full power can kill Shirou's Noble Phantasms easily.

Shirou's Noble Phantasms are a traced image, bro. That's just magecraft. Wicked powerful, but not real.

Berserker's speed and strength are both recockulous and he would explode Shiki into a gooey meat-cloud as soon as he came into his vicinity.

He even has the reach advantage with his stone slab and recockulously long arms.

>No, she's a copy of the original one.
No. Her title is The Original One. Her NP is The Original One. She calls herself the Original One.
>That isn't right at all. Gods are human's ideals, Arcueid is a nature spirit like faeries and elementals.
Nasu made Arc say it.
>Canon with a bigass grain of salt
Nasu said canon. You can't ignore one canon only to accept other canon.
>She has no physical barriers whatsoever.
Arcueid has instant regeneration. Remember how Roa basically regenerated in seconds after being reduced to his ankles?

Yeah.

And again, Shiki's MEoDP IGNORES all external factors, barriers, regeneration, reincarnation, etc. God's Hand is not a barrier that extends very far out of Berserker's body. As long as Shiki can dip even half an inch inside that dote, or along those lines, he will basically end up destroying Berserker.

Because he's not targeting God's Hand. He's directly targeting Berserker's destruction.

>>6827277
Well, who knows? Shirou basically gains weapon mastery whenever he creates NPs and he basically becomes fast and strong enough to fight against Servants, albeit the Servants are in shit situations when he does.

And Nasu HAS said that a full power Shiki beats Shirou because he can just cut anything Shirou makes.

And if Shiki could match a Shirou enhanced by weapon mastery, well...

>>6827061
>What Shiki kills are what exists.
Servants don't exist.

Shiki at full strength can probably kill anything in the Nasuverse except for TYPEs, but do remember that he is only human.

Even with Nanaya blood, there is no way he can run through Gil's NP spam/EA, match Berserker in a fight, even getting CLOSE to someone like Archer, and being repelled by Assassin.

Shiki's biggest weakness is his human body.
Also, I never watched KnK, how is Ryougi's eye different from Shiki's?

>>6827328

>how is Ryougi's eye different from Shiki's?

They glow.

>>6827286
Then why is she a possible successor to Crimson Moon? The original can't be a successor.

>Shiki is the strongest and he can rape everything but he is incapable of raping everything with his current body

What else is new?

>>6827227
>doing so effectively realizes the fated destruction
>fated destruction
But aren't Servants already destroyed as pointed out >>6826943 ?
If they weren't they wouldn't cost like they do to maintain.

>>6827353
Perhaps their 'destruction' extends to the finality of them being wiped out once their prana cost can no longer be maintained?

>>6827328
>how is Ryougi's eye different from Shiki's?
Entirely different source of power and mechanism of working, no strain.
The only things that are similar
1) Magical eyes.
2) They allow you to kill shit

>>6827352
Remember when Shiki destroyed gravity and went to Krypton so he could get an indestructible cloak.

>>6827362
>entirely different source of power
Eh, I always figured it came from the same thing.

>>6827369
Ryougi's comes from that Origin of nothingness or whatever.

>>6827358
The prana cost isn't preventing them from being destroyed.
Instead they are already destroyed yet they remain.

You need to understand that when things dies in the Nasuverse it's because laws and concepts etc.
ORT "can't" die because he doesn't follow Gaia's concept of death. He may very well have a Mercurian concept of death entirely different somehow.
In either case it's the realization of these things that kills people.

When something seizes to function so to speak, it is triggered dead and is tagged dead by Gaia and dies following the concept of death through.
MEoDP for instance "doesn't" kill anything in the sense that it doesn't make things seize to function like how things normally dies, instead it forces a sort of a jump to the point in which the things finally did die when they died, and so they recieve the status of dead that way. So instead of destroying something it simply overrides the status of alive to dead.

Servants however? They already have the status of dead, as well as being foreign enteties that doesn't belong to neither Gaia nor anywhere else for that matter.

>>6827397
It comes from her body's personality, which is " " and somehow linked to Akasha.

>>6827415
But Shiki has already killed 'dead' things before, what's stopping him from doing it now?

Anonymous 1: - "Shiki can kill Servants because Nasu said so."
Anonymous 2: - "Shiki can't kill Servants because Nasu said so."

Nasu: - "lol"

>>6827436
They exist outside of the system that he can tap into in order to comprehend their death.

That being said in an interview Nasu stated that the only people that could put up even a defensive fight against an average servant were third personality Shiki, Ciel, and ....someone else.

I'm fairly sure the third person was Kouma Kishima

>>6827447
Nasu is prone to contradicting himself

>>6827472
>Nasue is prone to be a mumbling fucktard

>>6827484
Especially when it comes to Arcuied or Ryougi

He keeps giving them pointless buffs making them more and more invincible with every interview.

>>6827487
In the epilogue, Ryougi claimed that rewriting the laws of physics would be simple for her. I don't think Nasu has "buffed" her.

anon would rather talk about serious canon than delicious flat chests?

>>6827491
He recently stated in an interview that no she can't kill god due to him neither being living or dead.

>>6827496
Go back to /a/

>>6827499
But Ryogi doesn't deal with living or dead. I mean, there is that whole thing about her being capable of killing intangible things

>>6827499
I forget, did she make that claim as her first personality or her third personality? Regardless, I don't think she seriously meant to claim that she could kill Alaya, especially considering that she predicated her statement with "if he existed."

>>6827491
>In the epilogue, Ryougi claimed that rewriting the laws of physics would be simple for her

Fucking stupid. No matter what Nasu says, I will not believe this shit until he's shown to have reality warpers in his universe and no, Zelretch is not a reality warper .

>>6827546
“….The Whirl of the Root. The place where the causes of everything swirl, the place where everything is prepared and because of that there’s nothing there. That’s what I really am. I’m only connected to it, but I’m a piece of it. That would make me the same existence, wouldn’t it?

"I can do anything because of that…..Hmm yes, rearranging the laws of matter so small it’s invisible, or going back in time and changing the evolutionary tree of life itself is possible. It’s simple for me to rearrange the order of the current world. I wouldn’t be remaking the world, but crushing the old world with a new world.”

>>6827559
Yeah no, sorry.
Physics doesn't work like that, neither does an origin. This is just Nasu wanking over his God Mode Sue.

But hey, I've seen more bullshit in /co/ characters, so whatever .

Showing is always better than telling. That's my gripe with Nasu. A fucker can hype his own powers up and whether it is shown to be true or not, it is taken as true.

>>6827516
Ryougi severs the origin of things, making it be as if they had never been in the first place.
God is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end.
God is basically an eternal entity with neither origin nor end.

Ryougi's eyes are powerless against things without origins.

>>6827579
>This is just Nasu wanking over his God Mode Sue.
There is not enough porn of his God Mode Sue to wank over, sadly.
KNK should have been shitty mainstream animu series.

>>6827589
Name: Kara no Kyoukai
Jname: 空の境界
Objects: 137

>>6827605
>should have been shitty mainstream animu series.
>shitty mainstream

>>6827605
Never enough. Only limited amount is accessible anyway.
>>6827608
You heard me.

>>6827265
>No, she's a copy of the original one.

No, she IS the original, since she was directly born from the planet itself and Gaia is the one that has the original human blueprints.

>That isn't right at all. Gods are human's ideals, Arcueid is a nature spirit like faeries and elementals.

Gods are give form by human worship, and they are natural phenomena as well, but the important thing here is that they are inferior to Arcueid.

>Canon with a bigass grain of salt

It was written by Nasu though. Besides, some parts might be canon while others might not, but Arcueid's origin sure as hell is canon.

>>6827328
>Shiki at full strength can probably kill anything in the Nasuverse except for TYPEs

And Arcueid (on normal condition) under the moon because she also lacks the concept of death.

>>6827346
No, she IS the successor of Crimson Moon, not a possible successor, she IS the successor of Crimson Moon. See the title of the picture. It says "The Genesis of the True Ancestors and Crimson Moon's successor".

Can Void Shiki do hax things like "I cut the concept of you not sucking my cock right now"?

>>6827589
>Shitty
>Mainstream
>Anime
>Series

3 out of 4 ain't bad.

>>6827415
>ORT "can't" die because he doesn't follow Gaia's concept of death

Oh Gain concept of death again. It was stated that ORT cannot be killed by the MEoDP because it doesn't have the concept of death, not because it doesn't have Gaia's concept of death, since ORT can still be destroyed physically. It's the same for Arcueid under the moon, she doesn't have the concept of death. The Aristotles are the planetary embodiment, which is why they don't have a concept of death because in order to kill them you'll need to kill the planet first; why do you think Arcueid loses her invulnerability to the MEoDP after the Earth is dotstabbed? Why do you think it was stated that as long as the battleground is Earth, ORT doesn't have a single weakness? Think about it.

>>6828631
Mystic eyes of dick sucking perception.

>>6828770
Wasn't it said that even though Meodp won't work, a powerful enough physical force could still destroy it?

I have always wondered where this Gaian concept of death bullshit ever came from. Anyway, Shiki has killed non-living and dead things before. Those things aren't any problems for him. Servants have a time of destruction with their summoned bodies, so they can be destroyed by mystic eyes of hax bullshit. It's a question of if Shiki can get his brain to discern Servants. He doesn't know it yet so he's not as hax as he potentially could be.

Ryougi would probably have an easier time seeing targets in Servants than Shiki could, however. Still, human limits exist, even if both of them are on the very edge of human capability.

If servant will just stand, Shiki will kill him.
If not, Shiki will die easily.
Dead apostles aren't well trained killers like servants.

>>6828828
>Dead apostles aren't well trained killers like servants.
...

>>6828828
>implying Gilgamesh is well-trained with all the jobbing he did in FSN

>>6828834
They're fucking slackers and able to kill only innocent unarmed people.

>>6828793
Yes, that's what I said. It was stated that since ORT doesn't have the concept of death, you'll need to destroy it physically.

>>6828817
From Notes, people mixed V/V's words ("the Types don't mix well with the common sense of this planet and will not give up until they accomplish their goal") with the ORT doesn't have the concept of death statement. People assumed that since it was stated that ORT doesn't have a concept of death means that he doesn't have Gaia's concept of death, which is pure bullshit, since Arcueid doesn't have a concept of death under the moon too; as stated by her in Tsukihime, and in MBAA Ryougi said that it's not she couldn't see her death, it's just that death didn't exist for her.

>>6828836
>Gilgamesh

Another slacker.

>>6828838
>Dead Apostles
>slackers
Now you just gone full retard. Some of them are slackers, but even slackers of the bunch have pretty hax abilities that can easily kill lol well-trained killers.

>>6828840
But he's also a servant.

>>6828843
>but even slackers of the bunch have pretty hax abilities that can easily kill lol well-trained killers.
Can someone tell Nasu to at least create new Character Material for Tsukihime. Or at least let Sasakishonen write Tsukihime 2 and Talk.

>>6828846
>But he's also a servant.

That's why he will die easily. He will act like a nigger "HIT ME, HIT ME HUH C'MON HIT ME NIGGA!"

>>6828843
>Now you just gone full retard. Some of them are slackers, but even slackers of the bunch have pretty hax abilities that can easily kill lol well-trained killers.

You know nothing about the others since Nasu never showed them in a game or novel. Fanon shit much, please.
Nero and Roa were slackers and died like a bunch of cockroaches. Wallachia too.

>>6828856
>fanon
>Nasu made them
lol

>>6828856
>he still thinks they're slackers
Nero and Roa, as well as Wallachia had the balls to admit that Shiki was a threat that Gilgamesh never would have admitted to. And the Church/Mage Associations as well as True Ancestors are pretty much not innocent and unarmed.

>>6828856
>Roa
>One of the most powerful magi from the Age of Legends and the founder of the Burial Agency
>Nero
>Another powerful magus from the Sea of Stray
>Wallachia
>Ex supreme director of the Atlas Academy
>slackers

Now you just went retard, NEVER go full retard. No seriously, you don't know what you're talking about, please stop posting.

>>6828856
>You know nothing about the others since Nasu never showed them in a game or novel.
There is plenty of side materials that cover at least some of the other dead apostles.

>>6827243
>Arcueid is the ORIGINAL ONE. All gods in Nasuverse are copies of her. Nasu made that so in his game called Fate/Extra.
Fucking Nasu. How much stronger are you trying to make Arcuied out to be?

>>6828875
>hurr durr fanon powah levels
>so fabulous

They weren't so fabulous in Tsukihime & Melty Blood and died easily because they're slackers.
Gilgamesh is the strongest servant in FSN and died easily. Because he's a slacker.

>>6827469
>I'm fairly sure the third person was Kouma Kishima
No, Kouma can fight against another Servant equally. Which is even more fucked up, seeing as how Shiki's dad almost killed him with a drumstick.

>leave an /a/ thread full of contradiction and trolling
>click on /jp/

it's like I'm on /a/ again!

Mana is Rin, you all fucked up.

Shiki may have killed dead things.
But can he truly re-kill something he have killed?

>>6828900
>Which is even more fucked up, seeing as how Shiki's dad almost killed him with a drumstick.

That just means that Shiki's dad was just that awesome

>>6831144
Well, the thing is, if I recall things correctly, Kiri thought his son had more potential than even he had, and Kiri already was very much bordering on beyond human at the point he died. Don't know if Nasu did that so Shiki's future form could actually face off against DAAs far more easily, but this is Nasu we're talking about here.

>>6831206
No. According to Kiri and his mother Shiki was too nice (and that he was weaker). Kiri created half of the Nanaya techniques by himself. He also wasn't taught anything. Instead of language they told him how to stab something and forgot about him. A year later they find him practicing advanced techniques.

Kouma was the one that said Shiki had higher potential but this is a weakened Kouma (TATARI says the Kouma he created was weakened because apparently the original was ridiculously strong). And besides Tohno/Nanaya were bot powered up by TATARI to take on Ciel, Kouma, and Nero so it's probably hard to say.

>>6828900
No, Kouma and Aoko and most of the 27 can fight equally against Servants with extremely average Noble Phantasms. While Void Shiki and Ciel can fight only a defensive battle against said Servants.

>>6831251
Nanaya wasn't powered up by the Tatari, let alone Tohno (he isn't even a Tatari clone). Don't forget that the Tatari's clones are actually weaker than the originals.

>>6831293
Average servants with average Noble Phantasms. Though, this is terrible to measure things against as we've never seen an average servant.

>>6831319
No, Nasu only said "working on the condition of one-on-one, with an extremely average Noble Phantasm". He never said average Servants.

>>6831251
>Instead of language they told him how to stab something and forgot about him. A year later they find him practicing advanced techniques.
What kind of fucking child is Shiki?

/jp/'s equivalent of green oval is what site again?

>>6831324
My main point still stands though, as we've never seen any sort of average servant or NP.

>>6831293

>Nanaya wasn't powered up by the Tatari, let alone Tohno (he isn't even a Tatari clone).

In regards to Melty Blood, Shiki is powered up from standard by Sion's etherlite hax.

>>6831348
>we've never seen any sort of average servant
Find a Servant with many Cs in their stats. That would be average as fuck.

>>6831354
That wasn't a powerup. Sion was surprised by Shiki's physical capabilities. She only released some of Shiki's limits.

>>6831341
>/jp/'s equivalent of green oval is what site again?
Eh???
Just how do you know about green oval but not this? Are you completely new to the internet?

>>6831348
>>6831357

The general accepted idea is Archer without Unlimited Blade Works and Mind's Eye True.
We don't know what an average Noble Phantasm is, though.

>>6831365
Well, I'm not sure about the name of it.

>>6831372
Not a chance, Archer's stats are definitely below average. I believe True Assassin is the best example of a Servant with average stats.

>>6831335
Shiki was actually raised normally. Kiri and Kouma were both had similar backgrounds except that the family started praising Kiri as a genius meanwhile Kouma they realized he was a goddamn monster and tried to shoot him. After he was shot in the head Kouma stopped holding back and killed his whole family.

>>6831416

His Noble Phantasm is both rank C and pretty ineffective.

Yeah, I'd say he's probably the most average.

Since a vast majority of Heroic Spirits are supposed to be pretty terrible compared to Saber and Cuchulainn and so on.

>>6831428
Wasn't Saber's stats pretty average because of Shirou being a shit master?

>>6831445

They were dulled (all ranks dropped by 1 compared to Tohsaka, severely lowered endurance and agility [but greatly enhanced luck] compared to Kiritsugu), but still above average.

>>6831425
>After he was shot in the head Kouma stopped holding back and killed his whole family.
So wait, a kid who doesn't even know how to speak.... And was never trained in anything.... Was just shot in the head and still proceeded to slaughter an entire family of really powerful Half-Bloods? And IIRC the Kishima family were a branch of the Tohno's with even more Demonic Blood within them?

Jesus fuck. Kouma is godly,

>>6831445
>Pretty average
>able to fight about evenly with monsters like Berserker and Cu Chulainn
Sure, Lancer's stats were all dropped one rank due to Kotomine giving all his orphan batteries to Gil, but Lancer beat every other servant we saw him fight without fighting seriously. Don't even bring up TA because he, like Gil got written out of HF.

>>6831487
Err, aside from Saber, but that was more a tie than a loss.

>>6831487
>fight evenly with Berserker
>let's run away because we'll get killed

>>6831526
You forget the whole "lolBerserker can barely move now due to flimsy gravestones" from the beginning of UBW.
Also,
>about evenly

>>6831540

>You forget the whole "lolBerserker can barely move now due to flimsy gravestones" from the beginning of UBW.

That was just a terrain advantage.

Strong as Hercules may be, he cannot move through a haze of shattered stones as easily as air. Saber's small enough to deal with it.

It was a temporary measure anyway.

One thing to keep in mind during power level threads is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to straight up compare over powered characters with each other. Very rarely (if ever) do you see a fair fight between something like servants.
That said, hax characters like Arc and Ryuogi need not apply.

Even if their stats are average they can be above average due to their skills, and then their abillities and then their Noble Phantasms.

Also, Saber even with Shirou as her master still had without doubt above average stats. But it doesn't really matter all that much, because even if they were average she would still be above average due to her Instinct skill, and there was also that mana thing.

Archer's stats are definately below average, but he had the Mind's Eye (True) skill with which he could compensate or gain the upper hand with.
Then there is all that tracing and broken phantasm things and so on which are all great, but it's also increadibly mana intensive so without massive mana supplies those things can't be continously done.
But it still makes him one of the very most versatile sevants, something which can compensate for the fact that he isn't that great otherwise.

In comparison Saber has Noblephantasms that already outclasses the majority of those Archer has available to him, and she has the stats to boost and skills to work with and with the right conditions there is no doubt she is the strongest Servant.

>>6831251
>A year later they find him practicing advanced techniques.
excuse me what?

>>6831642
Nanaya

They are monsters in human form.

Can shiki kill Kischur Zelretch Schweinorg?

>>6831775
He most likely can kill his existence in one dimension. We're not sure if Shiki's MEoDP can transcend dimensional copies.

why has this series been out for so long but we still know nothing about it and there are plot holes everywhere? is the a reason why they haven't made more vns already?

>>6831850
Uh, what?

>>6831775
Of course she/he can. The only beings that have no concept of death are the Aristotles and Arcueid under the Moon.

>>6831909
Actually, how Demons are talked about in DDD it seems they have no concept of death.

>>6831909
S/He might not be able to kill another Dimension's Zelretch though due to the "common sense" of said other dimension being different to the one said Shiki is from and thus not being able to see points/lines.
Though, this idea has not basis.

>>6832038
>"common sense"

Refer to >>6828770
and
>>6828839

>>6832030
DDD isn't part of the Nasuverse.

not this shit again.txt

bump

As usual, best thread on /jp/.

>>6831251
Is this from MB or from KT?

best thread on jp shouldnt 404 yet

>>6835916
Well, I like the discussion here.

>>6834684
I think it might be from that character material book, but I'm not that poster, I do not know.

shiki cannot kill Kamijo Touma

>>6836422
Shiki can kill Touma
Touma can kill servants
So naturally Shiki can kill servants

>>6836430
Everyone can kill Touma.
Touma can kill servants.
Everyone can kill servants.

Man, so much for heroes. Gilgamesh better start exercising.

She could just slice your planet in half before you even know that there's a fight.

Show me canon that shiki can fight in space.

>>6836467
>>6827366

>>6836467
No, she would just trip and accidentally split the Earth in two.
Moe~

>>6836467
Shiki dots Nono.
Nono disappears.

>>6836430
>>6836441
Touma can kill Servants
Servants can kill Touma
Now what?!

>>6836690
She already did ;_;

>>6836690
>implying Shiki wouldn't be split into two when approaching Nono due to Moe~

>>6836721
Shiki's dick can't be split in two. It's indestructible.
And enough to hit her "dot"

>>6836731
>implying there exists anything which moe~ can't overcome

>>6836721
>>6836738
>implying
Go back to /a/.
In a real men's world solid hard cocks rule over everything.