/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Check this shit out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMq-VyDTn00

Those are only fun to watch when there are a lot of comments

>>6808931
>NicoDou is often only fun to watch when there are a lot of comments.

there's like, only one video on youtube with nineball seraph cirno in it.

What was the rules again?
No instant kills and stuff like that at least.

It actually isn't that bad, it is a bit entertaining from a programmer's perspective to mash up scripts and AIs against eachother.

>>6808917
Is that what that Ichigo model is from? Every time he shows up in a tournament the same series of events happens in the comments: 1) People make fun of how short he is 2) He loses 3) Everybody goes "Nan...da to...?"

>>6808959

stormEX designed him

he's a little bit on the chibi side

>>6808931
>>6808935
As a general rule I tend to stick with stuff that's at the comment cap or near it on Nico. Otherwise it's just youtube only it loads slower.

Last I checked the cap was something like 1k comments for a >10 min video, 500 comments for a 5-10 min video, and less for shorter ones than that. I think I heard they've raised it since then though.

>>6808946
The rules vary widely from tournament to tournament, but even the more standard ones will allow 1-hit kill moves if they're part of the character's original system. You usually only see those with Hokuto no Ken characters and a couple of originals though. GG's AI almost never uses theirs and Sengoku Basara doesn't get theirs usuable very fast.

Then you have the tournaments of God-tier characters, where a full-screen instant-kill attack before the match begins is just a way of saying hello.

This thread needs more fanart.

I just got done marathoning all of the first Kuroshitedemo Ubaitoru tournament (http://www.nicovideo.jp/mylist/13029874)) and between that and her work in Shirokuro Stylish in the Cho-kichiku Gauge Max Survival tournament (http://www.nicovideo.jp/mylist/18360200)) and it's sequel, Hei Meiling's one of my favorite characters now.

As far as I can tell with my limited Japanese and the Japanese language Mugen wiki, they generally rank characters as such over there:

弱 - Weak
Characters who are especially weak. Not stuff like shit-tier characters in Street Fighter or whatever, but characters like Spelunker, Super Mario, or Magikarp who usually die in one hit, but occaisionally manage to win by virtue of being so short the AI has trouble hitting them.

並 - Medium
Stock characters who don't really stand out in any way and whose systems aren't very powerful. Kung Fu Man, Dan from Street Fighter, Mr. Satan from Dragonball, etc. Generic characters from some games like Guilty Gear or MvC are often counted in the next class up due to their games generally being stronger than others.

強 - Strong
The first big tier, it's characters who stand out from the rest of the pack in their games, usually. Lots of bosses wind up here. Shin Gouki, Fernandeath, most versions of Rugal, etc. Generally the sort of character that might give you a little trouble if you're playing single player.

I remember seeing some videos involving Utsuho and Unyuho on Youtube a while back, but I didn't really give it much though. I didn't realize that it was this huge thing.

凶 - Evil
While the Strong class were characters who stand out in their games, Evil class are characters who stand out across all games and are generally assholes. Stronger GG characters like Justice are here, as are a lot of Boss mode versions of characters in previous tiers and characters with advanced AIs who take advantage of infinite loops and such. Boss white Ren, Boss Hulk, Saya with her best AI, Toki and Raoh, max AI Death Adder, hit and run Marisa, Gustav, Ignis and Johan with the right AIs, frog-beam Sissy, etc. The sort of character that if you face single player it'll probably take you the better part of an afternoon to beat.

狂 - Crazy
The class that covers the biggest strata of characters, it gets referred to as lower crazy or upper crazy a lot, since they're pretty distinct. Members of this class might not be able to kill you in one hit, but they'll probably be able to manage it in one combo. Try to face them yourself and it's like slamming your dick in a door. The lower end is marked by characters like General with very hard AI, Master Geese, Elque with normal AI, most gold color/boss mode GG characters, Juggernaut and Magneto with their best AIs, Toki with his best AI, Another Blood with max AI, Mildred Avalonne boss mode, etc.

Above lower crazy you start getting into the characters that weren't really designed to be defeated by human hands and don't really work in the way fighting game characters are supposed to. some FF bosses like Omega, Hyper Broly, Maou Nanoha, that 12P version of Raoh with the beams and the resurrection, and so on.

Upper crazy characters are generally given every tool possible to kill you while still trying to maintain the veneer of somehow being defeatable and staying in the rules of fighting games. 1 hit kill moves that don't have special conditions attached to their use mostly live here. The standard for upper crazy is characters on par with Super Mech Hisui and Zetton. Barbados 11P, Ryuko 1st, Strider Hien. Stuff that will kill you dead in under three seconds. Rare Akuma is the pinnacle of the class, considered the border between Crazy and God tier.

god damn it why would you spend time writing AI for this

why

神 - God
The biggest difference between upper Crazy and God tier is that Crazy characters do hold the potential to be defeated by normal means. If you punch them, they will usually take damage. If their lifebar reaches zero, they will usually die. Those things don't happen so often in god tier. God characters are designed to be as unbeatable as possible while killing the opponent as efficiently as possible. Hitting the whole screen with 1-hit kill attack as soon as the stage loads (before "Fight") is not uncommon, though more sporting Gods will at least let their opponents get through their intro, since such an attack would have little effect on another God and wipe out any non-god before they could even get through their intro.

I'm not super familiar with all the techniques used in the creation of God-class characters myself, since there are a fair variety of them. All of them take precautions to make themselves effectively immune to damage, monstrous health pools and instant full regeneration every frame, full-time invincibility frames, negation of any large amount of damage, etc. Most, as far as I can tell, use massively damaging attacks in a variety of flavors in an attempt to find something the opponent's armor can't negate, usually featuring absurdly flashy graphics that fill the screen. Some of the highest class gods try to dive into the code directly, and have difficulty being installed or used without disabling your anti-virus software first.

As cool as it might sound, God tier matches are frequently kind of boring to watch, since they come down to two (frequently poorly animated) characters spamming overdone effects at each other, with what the life bar's doing having no relation whatsoever as to whether a character's dead or not. More commonly than one god beating another, you see time run out much more commonly than at normal tiers, and whether a character has a function to heal to full at 0.1 seconds or not often decides the battle. A lot of the time the program itself breaks from trying to process the graphics and all the attacks and crashes.

The most famous God class character is probably the various incarnations of Oni-Miko, an edit of Reimu, who shows up in a lot of tournaments and is a high tier god, though the highest tier of gods can usually win against her. Around her level are characters like 12P limiter cut Broly, S-Tomy, 12P Tenma, RSP 1st, Death Star 2nd, and so on. The strongest conventional gods as far as I know are Karma 12P and Honki Reimu.

論外 - Out of the question
God class characters who eliminate all avenues of being killed. Full-time invincibility, no collision detection, coded prevention of reaching hp 0, the works. Here you've got Omega Tom Hanks, A-Bomb, F1, and Genjutsu (reality). It should be noted that despite their ostensible unbeatability, some of the highest tier of gods can, on occasion, manage to eke out a win against them. I dunno how, some of them might use virus tactics, like Oni-Miko Zero, a new experimental version that afaik changes its opponent ALIVE=1 to ALIVE=0 while the stage is still loading, since every match against her loads to her win screen.

>>6809334

>Some of the highest class gods try to dive into the code directly

Haha oh fucking wow. Some people out there must really not want their characters to lose.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9521762

All things considered, this is possibly my favorite Mugen video. Large random select team battle between main characters and bosses with declining max HP after a win. This one just had so many great matches after it and such a great series of matches from the random select. Almost everything from 3 minutes onward is great, all leading to the main event at 12:00.

>>6809481
>turbo guy wins against that knight dude with a million assists

...didn't see that coming...

>>6809546
>Wins against Gouki at huge life disadvantage right afterwards
...

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7206644

Giga Tournament and it's sequel "Tournament" are pretty good too. Guy makes a single-block tag tournament while tweaking and editing every character to make them ridiculous (and ridiculously strong). Almost all the teams are fun to watch, but the two strongest to watch are Fiona/Zankuro and the Sumou team.

Koko desu ka?

>>6808933
Nineball Seraph Cirno you say?

>>6809339
>I dunno how, some of them might use virus tactics, like Oni-Miko Zero, a new experimental version that afaik changes its opponent ALIVE=1 to ALIVE=0 while the stage is still loading, since every match against her loads to her win screen.
Hahaha, oh wow.
Thanks for introducing me to this, OP, shit seems pretty amazing. Things like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a26qWKPw2Ec might be pretty common in the upper tiers, I suppose.

>>6809926
Thanks, always good to know someone's interested.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/mylist/19371062
If you're interested in seeing some god-tier stuff, here's a tournament that focuses on it. Since god level defense tends to be stronger than god level offense, the guy starts with a pool of high-level god characters and throws assorted other god tier characters at them, subtracting points or whatever whenever one of them is unable to kill a challenger that the others could.

Might as well post some more stuff.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9529164
Mugen's gotten big enough over there to create a ton of little memes and reoccurring gags. This is a MAD that goes through a ton of them. (Hint: Press the buttons that pop up in the video, starting with the one in the lower left by Kohaku, to see a longer, alternate version)

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm10899478
The first of several brief tournaments that were made where characters were instantly killed if they uttered any English. One of the competing characters was Date Masamune from Sengoku Basara.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/tag/MUGEN名勝負リンク?sort=m
The "Famous Match" tag on Nico Nico. Everything on here has at least one really good match in it.

I think one of the most interesting things about Mugen is that Newer doesn't always mean Better. More recent games tend to have higher speeds and much longer combos, but the counterpoint to that is that their firepower is lower to create longer matches. "Retro firepower" makes a lot of characters from the 16 bit era or so really powerful. SF1 Ryu and Ken in particular, are slow, stupid, and I don't even know if they can defend, but a Shoryuken from them will take off like 75% of a life bar out of nowhere. Same thing for Samurai Spirits/Shodown, they can get damn close to 1 hit kills. Meanwhile something like Sengoku Basara or Melty Blood, they can combo you all fucking day but it only takes off but so much health.

mugen is open source

naturally /jp/ should be jumping all over this shit. I think all the BROLLY SSJ3434 killed it.

Hey guys, I heard you like MUGEN.

Here, have this Arcueid grabbing Chuck Norris (AKA Joshep Joestar) flesh.

I'm thinking someone should make a /jp/ premade and upload it, like the youtube one above.
Have a few toohoo characters and soundtrack, steal sprites from the umineko fighting game, chuck some of that shit in there...it could work.

>>6810173
Yeah, it's kind of sad considering how robust the Japanese Mugen community is while what there is of the US one is the worst collection of irritating 12 year old attention whore cockmunchers I've ever seen, who do nothing but sit around making the millionth Brolly or Mizuchi/Orochi clone with a stupid name and then getting pissy when someone deigns to include it in a torrent or something.

I'm currently following this 強～神クラス tournament

http://www.nicovideo.jp/mylist/20120768

Shit's fucking great occasionally.

>>6810173
The stupid COPYRIGHTED ORIGINAL CHARACTER DO NOT UPLOAD ANYWHERE EVER shit is what killed it for me.

Another big difference is I always see US mugen stuff going on about what characters are "cheap" or unbalanced, while I've never seen that argument made even once in the JP community. All the characters who have a move that totally breaks the enemy AI so they just sit back guarding or something, or who launch into a combo before the round even starts? It might be considered slightly unsporting, perhaps, but in the end it just means they're stronger and are pit against stronger opponents.

In the US there's also a bunch of "OH WOW I DIDNT KNOW THAT CHARACTER EXISTS" to everything, you hardly ever see or hear about the same character twice, while JP community has a rather large cast of regulars that keep coming back in stuff in addition to the rarer visitors, which leads to a lot more memes and fan-made pairings.

>>6810267
Ah, I found it!

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12238951 @ 6:10!

>>6810267
That's the best one that's running currently, IMO. I especially enjoyed the second round with the survival tag gimmick.

Did you know it's the second one by the guy who runs that? First one is at http://www.nicovideo.jp/mylist/18425137, has pretty much the same gimmicks.

>>6810303
Same user, so yes!

Not sure if it's related, but I enjoyed watching this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncTgtyzo8-4

Anyone got a link to that "Toki" tournament?

>>6809049
Why are the quality on these videos so bad

>>6810393
Economy mode, wait until it's night in Japan.

>>6810393
To elaborate, Nico goes into reduced-quality economy mode during peak hours. They last longer on the weekends, but I think they should be gone by noon EST. I forget, I waste so much time on Nico these days that I sprang for premium long ago.

MUGEN threads on /jp/? I fucking came.

We should just lay claim to all 2d fighters, since /v/ is more concerned with flavor-of-the-month psuedo indie shit, TF2 and endless console wars.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/mylist/15434033

To keep it JP related, I guess, have a tournament featuring only Touhou characters, both official and fan-made.

Ika Musume can kill Servants

>>6810509

I guess Archer was too "busy" to fight.

Tag tournaments produce strange fan pairings that get popular sometimes. Mech Hisui/Robo-Ky and Hei Meiling/Shobon were posted earlier in the thread, but then you got stuff like Alice/Mongori (a comedy edit of Maxima from KoF).

>>6810553
MUGEN shipping is weird.

>>6810576
Yes, yes it is.

>>6810607
The worst part is that I sort of see the logic in all of these, even Mystia x Rapist.

I never understood people who were really into MUGEN. From what I've witnessed, it's just a circlejerk of sprite artists who like to show off their creations and never, ever, let anyone else use them.

>>6810657
It's like that in the US, sure. That's why this thread's mostly been about the JP side of it, which is much less of a shithole in my experience.

>>6810607
There's a fair amount of genderswap stuff too.

>>6810459
Cant stop watching

>>6810670
Any source on this one?

>>6810670

Is that Shiki?

Well, there goes my pants.

>>6810887
Yeah, it's Shiki. Don't remember what name she goes by (shikiko?), but there's a matching character out there, even has a voice. Sorce is somewhere or other on Pixiv, I forget.

While I'm at it, have Kyko.

Always glad when someone makes an ORA ORA joke about Ichirin.

I don't even know what Death Adder is from. Dragon Quest?

>>6811986
Golden Axe.

>>6811993
Where's that Norio Wakamoto axe dude from?

>>6811997
Barbados is from one of the Tales games, dunno which one.

>>6812048
'aight, thanks!

>>6810359
Found it!

http://www.nicovideo.jp/mylist/21109333

Love the ending to this one.

This one's just kinda creepy.

>>6812583
Check out the other ones that guy did, linked at the top of the mylist. The normal tournament was good, but the main survival tournament was amazing.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm10141280

Another one of the best Mugen videos on Nico. From a tournament where a selection of characters ranging from Strong to upper Crazy class were pitted in teams against a series of low level gods in 1P color with single elimination. This is the last video, with just a few gods to go, but the "Mortal" team is stuck on Soushiki, a kinda stupid edit of shiki that likes to hit you with a half dozen near instant death moves right at the start of the round.

First part is mostly just a warm up. First really good bout is when Master Asia shows up at 12:45. Then everything after 14:10 is just amazing as hell.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13101163

Best single-video tourney

>>6815346
http://www.nicovideo.jp/mylist/18291602

The Yappa Ki no Sei (Just my imagination) tournament by the same guy is hilarious too, especially the final video.

ありえん（笑）