/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>Umineko

>>6672042
She's not interested in revenge. I mean, what was Clair's directive to Lion? Not to avenge her for her shitty alternate life or realize what a piece of shit her mom is, but to live on and be happy and find his own love. Even if it was some random tsundere inquisitor instead of Battler.

>>6672033
I agree with you. Trauma, people. Natsuhi hated the child and wished for it to die. It's not hard to believe that she actually did try to save the maid and baby, but her failure to do so and guilt over hating the kid for no reason turned into a fear that she might have actually caused his death when in reality, she didn't.

Rudolf's gun fires low.

Murders where the victim is shot in the gut are committed with this gun.

>3 thread starters in one minute

you guys are on the ball today.

so...if we are to assume that the fall from the cliff made yasu literally incapable of love because of some horrible injury...the how did kinzo into yasu?

>>6672145

It's not his personal gun, dammit

"HEY RUDOLF, ALWAYS PICK THIS GUN, RIGHT?"

>>6672153

wat

>>6672153
What?

>Nope.

>>6672153
He didn't

>>6672153

Ass

>people think Kinzo did anything to Yasu
I see even the translation of episode 7 hasn't stopped you people from being retarded.
━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━
The Meta World reminds you that the Delicious Companion Burger will never threaten to stab you, and, in fact, cannot speak.
In the event that the Delicious Companion Burger does speak, The Meta World urges you to disregard it's advice.
THERE WILL BE BURGERS

>>6672107
hmmm.....op's pic makes me think of yasu/lion self yuri.

>>6672187
If Will had been the protagonist of Umineko from the start, I can only imagine how much shorter the series would have been

>>6672204

Too bad Will is dead.

I still think we still missing something recarding Beato's hearts.

Batora BEGGED her for forgiveness, and we still haven't found a reason for that.

>>6672223
People have theories, but others want to take everything in the Tea Party at face value, in spite of it being confirmed to be missing the heart.

In retrospect, It's kinda funny how Chick-Beato wanted so much Battler's penis inside her.

>>6672223
Ryuukishi stated that we got everything about Beatrice's heart.

>>6672223
We already know. People just don't want to accept it, like they didn't want to accept Shkanontrice. Yasu's murders were gonna be fake, shit went wrong. She wrote the tales to proctect Battler and Ange from the truth.

Reading the early EP7 spoiler threads, this is hilarious shit

~~~
Spoilers from 2ch that people in the thread are treating as real, but are NOT confirmed:

Spoilers up to the opening

Zeppeki-san is a man.
His real name is Kunita Yuuki.
In the world 12 years later, he is a detective who receives a request from Ange to work on the case of 12 years ago.
He has a fit appearance and a gentle demeanor. He uses the pronoun "boku."

When Ange confronts the Sumaderas on Rokkenjima, it seems she is attacked by Amakusa and killed together with the Sumaderas.
Kunita Yuuki hears Ange died, he becomes determined to fulfill her request.
A few years later, he unravels the mystery of Rokkenjima.

At that time, in the fantasy depiction, he becomes "one who knows all about Rokkenjima" and becomes the next Beatrice after Ange.
He is invited to meta world by the GM Bern as the game's referee.

This ballet this title Ep7
Yukari Hitoshi voice heard in the past to get lost in the woods
Red letter "I know you. I know you too. I witches golden Beatrice"
Yukari Hitoshi future will be taken to a place in Berne forcibly spun Kakera
Tubifex, hard red letters out and repeat the work of witches, toxins begin to suffer more and more stronger Beato
Battler for the corresponding call to the residents of toxins 押Shi返Sou their next fantasy
You guys are losers and do not destroy the love a cliff Furu the tubifex. The magic of love fade
Says I do not need love tubifex, the cliff face is sad
Beato death. Funeral held in the Cathedral
　Tea Party
Beato resurrection. "And now I'm newly born dead before."
Army Corps magical mystery Beatrice VS Battle of Berne. The winner Beato
Burnt to ashes by several layers of fake red letter
The church was dark and the origin of suffering and regret Bern: "We will not leave them happy" and a mysterious voice
　Behind Tea
People smile at each other against El Dorado
Somebody said to appear there creep
Gold letter "I will only be truly golden witch, Asumubeatoriche"

>>6672239
>Yasu's murders were gonna be fake, shit went wrong
Are you autistic or something?

>>6672240
I always remember that and laugh. It was this one guy who made all these fake screenshots. There was one with Rudolf giving Rosa the golden wing letters too. Then he posted one with an obviously fake character and admitted it was fake.

>>6672238

Yes, but he also stated he didn't directly revealed Beato's heart

>>6672238
He told everything but he didn't spoonfeed everything. And it's pretty obvious Ep7 Tea Party was Eva's truth.

"This is all truth-" as far as Eva can tell/believes.

EP8 will tell the remaining 25% of the truth

EP8 won't talk about Yasu's motive. Everything needed to figure it out was said in EP7 and he won't give any more information regarding it.

>>6672245
Say that after Ep8 comes out. I will enjoy the tears.

>>6672269
Tell me.

What's the point of a fake murder when you're going to blow everybody up anyway.

My god, people whi didn't read the novel or only read a part of it "because it is too looong", SHUT THE FUCK UP.
It is either this, either some people don't know how to read, in fact.
When aguments are only "I'm right" "no I am right" on both sides, it becomes really ridiculous.

>>6672268

That wasn't a real interview. Someone just made that bullet point list up.

My god, people who didn't read the novel or only read a part of it "because it is too looong", SHUT THE FUCK UP.
It is either this, either some people don't know how to read, in fact.
When aguments are only "I'm right" "no I am right" on both sides, it becomes really ridiculous.

>>6672280
What's the point of elaborate real murders if you're going to blow everyone up anyway?

>>6672285
It's real.

>>6672293

Then link please.

>>6672285
Some points of the list are true according to an older interview though.
>>6672269
Do you even read ep7?

>>6672280

Tell me.

Why did Battler forgive Beato for the murder of his family.

>>6672289
Because Yasu wants Battler to solve the epitaph.

Killing people off and urging him to solve it to stop the murders.

>>6672280

The fake murders make people focus on solving the epitaph. The bomb is for if noone solves it.

>>6672301
Because EP1-6 are merely tales.

They didn't actually happen. They're fictional stories.

Beatrice is a martyr. She's hiding the ugly truth by saying she did it.

>>6672303
>>6672307
So it's the same motive either way?

>>6672301
ha. ha. ha.

stupid argument.
The same person also said that "there is no bad people". Yes, of course, he is the most reliable person. How are you going to explain this?

>>6672303
She also doesn't want to hurt him. Hence the fake murders. "If you solve the epitaph, I will give everything back."

>>6672280

Greater is the risk, greater is the magic.

>>6672243
>Tubifex

wut

>>6672318

...so of course Meta Battler figured this out.

You are an idiot. Meta Battler has no idea what *really* happened on the island, his memories start at the beginning of EP1.

>>6672328
What Battler says to comfort his sobbing little sister is a little different from when he's actually suffering a breakdown himself and begging for forgiveness.

>>6672301
Why does this even matter when he forgave his own family for murdering everyone?

>>6672334
"Itomimizu", aka Will.

It was his nickname among fans before EP7 got released because of his hair.

>>6672328
If you undestood the heart of the story, you'd know "there are no bad people".

10 tons of gold make people suspicious of one another. The first shot is fired by accident and it all goes to hell from there. Ep7 Tea Party is distorted by Eva's hatred after all those years.

>>6672342
stupid question, stupid answer, he is begging for forgiveness because even if he it was not conscious, it is the fact that Shannon didn't get his letter which ""caused everything"". So he have a big part of responsability.

So Yasu says all this bullshit about "letting the roulette decide". What the fuck does that actually mean? She kills people for no reason, and if Battler figures it out that's somehow a success, and otherwise she and everyone else dies?

If it wassupposed to somehow choose between her different options (battler, george, jessica, become the next super-businessman kinzo, etc),then that might make some sense. But how the fuck does it do that?

The only explanation I can think of is that the one who survives till the end wins? So maybe the game isn't about Battler at all, he's not left till last.

He's just the only motherfucker on the island not dumb enough to wonder around by himself and get killed.

>>6672338
The idiot is you.

Meta Battler discovered the whole truth.

The whole notion of "you can't believe out the real truth by Beato's games" is just something Will said. Will isn't infallible.

>>6672350
People killing each other are bad. No matter what happens next. Killing by revenge or becaue you are paranoid is ALSO bad. So no, sorry.

So can anyone tell me why Bern is the Witch of Miracles? Because in Higurashi Keiichi was the one who pulled off the miracle- Rika was the who rolled the dice.

At least that's how it was described by Bernkastel!Rika in the TIPS (Because he pulled off the miracle Tsumihoroboshi you see Bernkastel!Rika thinking about how she will keep rolling the dice no matter how many times is needed as Keiichi has already proven a miracle can happen. He does it again. Multiple times. In the PS2 games [not exactly canonical though] he pulls off the biggest one).

>>6672355

bulllllllshit. Not writing a girl a letter in no way makes you responsible for the horrible murder of 15 people.

>>6672355
And Featherine and Ange told us if it was that kind of reason, it's retarded to think Battler would be so friendly (and eventually fall in love with and marry) someone who slaughtered his family

>>6672338
Meta Battler knows what Piece Battler knows, including their past. And he remenbers his promise and through all the clues from episodes 1-5 he solves it.

>>6672368
>>6672367
Remember ep3, among other things?
When you are involved, you FEEL RESPONSABLE. It doesn't mean that you forgive everything, but you are conscious that you have a part of responsability, especially when you are not a complete bastard.

>>6672362
That's probably why Will basically told Bern that she could fuck right off as the Witch of Miracles, because her brand of miracle involves rolling dice and holding out until something happens, and he wants Lion to seize his own face and be a miracle himself.

>>6672373

He knows their past,but he doesn't know the actual events, because he isn't real, just a metaphor.

It's possible for him (and the reader) to figure out the yasu business in the message bottles through logic. That doesn't mean he can mysteriously now see the events of the real incident, which he never witnessed.

>>6672362

Rika performed a real miracle at the end of the 8 novel, she stopped time (or was it Hanyuu? Can't remember) and saved auau from the bullet.

Also, she was the one that reunited all the pieces together.

>>6672362
From Witches' Tanabata:
> ......No matter what kind of effort, fortune, enthusiasm, or unity......I know that at the end of it all, there is no miracle waiting.
> Specifically because I know that there will be no miracle, I am the Witch of Miracles.
Basically, the only reason Keiichi ended up doing what he did was _because_ the dice were rerolled so many times. That's no miracle, that's just basic probability. If there's a greater-than-zero percent chance of something happening, and you have an infinite number of trials, it WILL happen eventually.

>>6672359
Yasu wanted Battler to solve the epitaph but she would've gone with whatever fate chose

If George solved it, Yasu would reject Battler and live with George

If nobody solved it, Yasu would kill everybody and herself.

If anybody else solved it, she would leave her fate in their hands.

Aside from the cousins, whomever Yasu killed was decided by how they would act. Something she had no control of. 2 idiots decide to go off on their own. Then those 2 idiots are victims.

>>6672379
>The one going through eternal torture wasn't me. It was you! I put you through such cruel torture! I can't even hold what's left if you! If only I could have saved you!
>married Beatrice as soon as she's restored
Yeah, he totally hasn't completely forgiven her.

>>6672384
Hanyuu's the one with the ability to stop time. Though the anime take on it was that Takano simply missed, was it not? (Which is a perfectly reasonable way to go, considering how stressed out Takano probably was at the time.)

>>6672385
>Basically, the only reason Keiichi ended up doing what he did was _because_ the dice were rerolled so many times. That's no miracle, that's just basic probability. If there's a greater-than-zero percent chance of something happening, and you have an infinite number of trials, it WILL happen eventually.

K1 was able to do shit because of Rika. Like everyone else.

But as Rika said herself, that wasn't technically a miracle, it was just people working together.

>>6672381
>>6672385
In other words, the Frederica Bernkastel of Higurashi, at least, was a savescummer.

http://archive.easymodo.net/cgi-board.pl/jp/thread/5929841#p5930117
Oh wow, the responses to this lol

>>6672382
Meta world works as Ryu wants it to work. Battler doesn't even have to know exactly what happened in detail. He found about the "roulette", the fake murders plan and how due to the influence of the gold everything went bad. At that moment he was acknowledged as the new territory lord of the Rokkenjima catbox.

>>6672382
You're missing the point.

He can't see what really happened but he can deduce that Beatrice is purposely pointing out that she (Yasu) is the culprit and Battler saw in EP3 that his family is capable of murder. It's possible to reason out that Beatrice is hiding something by wanting everybody to believe she's the culprit.

>>6672405
You really intent to force your fake murder shit, right?

>>6672392

Yes. The anime didn't animated the scene.

Anyway, Rika moved through time and saved her, performing a real miracle. It was an important scene for auau characterization because put at stop at the whole "sacrifice" thing. But the animu completely skipped Hanyuu character. Fucking deen.

>>6672388
Again, technically, she never killed anyone. She was planning to do it, that's for sure. But she didn't do it.

Meta-Beatrice =/= Yasu.

Yasu = poor girl(?) who decided to create a situation where fate will be forced to decide for her in desperation.

Meta-Beatrice = personification of the mystery of Rokkenjima that hide the truth from the real world.

The scapegoat is meta-Beatrice, not Yasu.

>>6672417
Yea, I do. If I believe in it, why shouldn't I? It's always good to have conflict anyway, at least it keeps us thinking, we have a few days left, might as well make the best of them.

>>6672417
People are right when they point out that incorporating murders into the roulette is a non-sequitor. But setting up a murder mystery play for Battler? Yeah, that makes sense, since she and Battler were obsessed with murder mysteries together and Battler was bragging about how he wanted a specific kind of a mystery when they were kids.

There are plenty of clues, but again, people seem to just want to take what's said in the Tea Party at face value, even though it's explicitly told to us that it's at least partially distorted...

>>6672430
You're being too technical.

For all intensives purposes, you can say Meta Beatrice is Yasu because Yasu makes up nearly everything Meta Beatrice is.

It is worth noting that Yasu did *not* install the bomb. That was Kinzo's work.

Anyone could have set it off even if Yasu didn't intend to.

(and yes, obviously I'm assuming Tea Party isn't trustworthy. If it is, then the whole thing is fucking done and we don't need EP8)

>>6672431
So you're admitting you only believe it to go against what everybody else is saying.

I bet you were the type to always talk about how shannon=kanon can't be true.

>>6672430
Bern says that the message bottles were written and thrown out in order to cover up the truth. That's something Yasu did. And all the discussion of Beatrice's motive and what she's trying to do (Battler's sin, not in it for revenge, the gold is already hers, yada yada) are pretty much about Yasu.

>>6672445
>For all intensives purposes, you can say Meta Beatrice is Yasu because Yasu makes up nearly everything Meta Beatrice is.

Not him, but not. Geez, Meta-Beato has memories of her mom and grampa. She isn't even a person.

>>6672431
>we have a few days left, might as well make the best of them.

When ep VIII came out?

>>6672463
hence "nearly everything"

>>6672441
The problem is that they are trying to pass Yasu for some kind of hero.
And do they not realize how retarded and unplausible this fake murders nonsense?

And it's not a non-sequitor, the roulette isn't something that work with happiness and bird chipping.
It's been stated since the first episode that Beatrice's magic, and Kinzo's as well, work by betting everything.
Higher the odds, higher the risk, higher the miracle.

The fact that she went "solve it or I kill you all" and really meant it has to be true, otherwise the entire roulette plot doesn't make any sense.

>>6672456
No. I believe in it. I also used to argue that Shkanontrice was right, while tons of people would call me retarded and say I stopped thinking. I'm here to argue for the thery I believe in.

Just like I was confident Ep7 would prove Shannon=Kanon=Beatrice, I am confident Ep8 will prove Yasu planned a fake murder mystery.

>>6672445
>intensives purposes
intents and purposes

>>6672483
...
This way, you are just taking and interpreting the part which arrange you in ep7 as an absolute truth, and dismiss everything else saying it is bullshit.
Way to go.

>>6672421
>Again, technically, she never killed anyone. She was planning to do it, that's for sure. But she didn't do it.

THAT'S JUST AS BAD

>>6672516
I'm not defending her, idiot, actually I am doing the opposite. He was asking why Battler was apalogizing in ep5 it if it was not a "fake murder mystery". And yeah, apologizing is a lot easier if nobody was killed, so...

>>6672516

Well, she did technically made up for that.

>>6672510
Aren't you doing the same? You refuse to consider what I say while calling me an idiot.

Reading Umineko made me come to think a fake murder mystery was planned and went to shit. I'm not going to disregard that just because it's an unpopular theory on /jp/.

So, essential the only two good explations are:

-Fake murder mystery
- Meta-Beato isn't Yasu, to technically she's much of a victim, like everyone else?

I tried coming up with a solution that would fit Battler's "none of them were bad people".

Yasu plans a fake murder mystery, to try and remind Battler of their childhood,and motivate him to solve the epitaph. People are let in on the scheme as they are "murdered". Unfortunately other people don't know, and so people gradually kill each other thinking there's a real murder plot (Oh shit, you're alive! You must have been the killer all along and faked your death! Die!).

This actually works pretty well. Alas, there was only one solution I could come up with for EP2's first twilight which doesn't rely on Yasu and/or Rosa being the killer. Gohda accidentally made the cakes with tiny bombs instead of sugar.

I am now more certain of this theory than I was when I came up with it. Fuck yes Gohda and his tiny bombs.

>>6672533
Or

- Yasutrice really does believe she's a witch and everyone will be resurrected at the end.

>>6672481
That's where the bomb comes in. Yasu was doing the same thing as Kinzo: faced with an impossible problem, set the bomb until you force a decision. But the roulette with real deaths makes no sense with too much. As people have brought up, planning real deaths = no future or meaningful decision no matter what the outcome, and makes her part of the challenge "contract" about giving back everything if they solved the epitaph a lie, when it was stated in red that she would keep that promise.

>>6672538

She said she don't believe. Even Beato knows Endless Magic is shit magic.

>>6672531
I'm not calling you an idiot here, not this anon. I just don't like the idea because of how the blue truth is supposed to be used.

>>6672541
So you are saying that Yasu's plan if nobody was to solve the epitaph was to round up all the parents, tell them about their plan to have a big murder mystery to amuse the children or something.
And at the end of the day when everyone would have fested, BOOM and everyone die.

Awesome, that make her even more of an evil bitch in my book.
But it makes no sense, sorry.

>>6672538
The gold is her source of magic, she knows that. With ten tons of gold, what can you NOT do? It's magic, in a way. And thus Yasu weaves a tale with "golden truth".

>>6672534

>>6672560
I don't really care if you think Yasu is an evil bitch or not, it's a matter of what makes sense. Setting the bomb is a way of solidifying resolve, and Yasu saw Kinzo's methods made a miracle happen for him.

>>6672560
She would just turn off the bomb after the "roulette" decided. But she either was unable to do so, or someone flipped it on again.

>>6672581
Then riddle me this.
If she planned to have a fake murder party why did she prepare real guns with real bullet who kill for real in the reality?

>>6672583
That's even more retarded, are you whiteknight faggots that delusional?

Call me dumb, but I still think this could've happened to some degree.

>>6672590
Those guns she stuck in a room where no one would have access to until the game was settled?

>>6672603

Forgot pic.

>>6672613
You're dumb.

>>6672605
Why PREPARE them?

>>6672590
If they solved the epitaph, she would take blame and leave her fate in their hands. Is it reatarded? Yes. Is it more retarded than she just going around killing people for no reason? No.

Also, Ep7 Tea Party is most probably truth as seen by Eva. After all those years filled with hatred at the death of her family, it's only natural it's somewhat twisted. The truth is there, but filled with hatred and cruelty.

George killed everyone (Hates his own mom for fuck sake) so Battler can hate Yasu, and keep her/him in his fatness.

Prove me wrong

>>6672603
All hail battler being Kinzo and Beato's second child.

>>6672565

Yeah, the fact I had to use that shows how difficult EP2's first twilight is to work around.

The 6 are confirmed to be dead when Rosa opens the door. This means someone killed them when there was no motive other than the standard (Yasu for lolroulette or Rosa for gold).

EP1 and 4 and for aren't so bad. Red truth never confirms there are any deaths there. But 3 also doesn't work.

>>6672625

Man his sprite is so fucking perfect for that scene.

A question I have...why did she tell the siblings about the bomb?

>>6672642
If she's handing them the responsibility, headship, and ownership of everything, it's probably kind of important that they know they're sitting on 900 tons of explosives.

These threads.

So much ass pain.

Why can't people have a civil argument without resorting to calling each other retards?

Is she just crazy or did she hire some of the servants?

>>6672656
The former

>>6672654
But that's part of the fun.

Hopefully they'll explain if Jessica was aware about the whole ShKanonnigans, or if she literally thought Kanon was a separate person.

>>6672656

She killed all the servants.
YES. Even Gohda.

>>6672662
Jessica doesn't know dick about anything going on. She's on the same level as Gohda.

>>6672624
So there is the bomb that explodes in every games.
The guns that she prepared.
The plans that she made.
The fact that she clearly stated that it was her intention to kill.
The fact that she does kill in every episodes before that are supposed to be viable versions of the event.
The fact that the roulette only works if you bet everything, it's not something halfassed like a fake murder party.
The fact that neither Will nor Battler ever even thought or said that Beatrice wasn't the culprit.

What more do you want?

>>6672656
The way I see it, those parts are fiction. It's Eva's truth and she didn't see it.

>>6672667

Unfortunately she lacks Gohda's sex appeal, and so has no fan love.

>>6672662

Jessica is a retarded hormoned teenager, deal with it.

Plus, the Gnome usually threats her like shit

>>6672656
Sumaderas, perhaps?

>>6672671
>Beatrice wasn't the culprit.

But she isn't the culprit. Neither is Yasu.

There is nothing I can say that'll make you change your mind about this, though.

>>6672671
>The fact that neither Will nor Battler ever even thought or said that Beatrice wasn't the culprit.

Battler understood Beatrice truth and made a lol joke episode.

Will said she's the Eps 1-4 culprit. That are fictions. Or Meta-World cat box bullshit. Either way, it doesn't matter.

How is it that people are still arguing about what really happened? It should be obvious to everyone by now, unless you just read and don't think.

The truth of what happened was already at reach in EP4. The only thing unsolvable for non-japanese or people without the required kanji knowledge was the epitaph.

I know R7 didn't hand us the truth in a silver plate but c'mon. This debate about whether Yasu did kill anyone or not is retarded.

>>6672689
Oh, and just to clarify: I mean the culprit in the real world.

>>6672689
Beatrice is considered the culprit of Umineko, it was stated textually in episode 7, learn to read.

>>6672690
Battler made a joke episode because he didn't want Erika to find the truth and because he is too soft.
But he did put Beatrice's heart in this episode which is the most important thing.

>>6672671
So there is the fact that it is guaranteed that Beatrice had a way to give back the lives that she had taken if someone solved the epitaph.
Fake twilight deaths in 5 and 6 with the same setup as in the question arcs.
6 is a full confession, and its premise is fake twilight deaths being hijacked and turned into real murders.
The fact that we clearly see Kumasawa and Gohda setting up faked deaths in EP4.
We see Beatrice bribing parents into participating in the fantasy in EP2.
The fact that real murders would defeat the entire purpose of the roulette to begin with.
Battler forgiving Beatrice for everything, begging her for forgiveness, falling in love with and marrying her, and Will willing to die to protect her.

What more do you want?

>>6672698
The culprit of the real world can't be known.
No it's not sure it's Kyrie or Rudolf.
But Yasu created the situation therefore she is considered the culprit

did Battler die during Kyriefest in EP7? He was going to meet Rudolpgh and crossed paths with Kyrie and AFAIK he wasn't mentioned again

>>6672671
>So there is the bomb that explodes in every games.
The bomb exploded in the real incident, it needs to explode in every single possibility inside the box.

>The guns that she prepared.
Retarded, yea. She wanted to take blame, that's the best I have.

>The plans that she made.
Plans, for what? I say mystery murder, just as I can't prove you wrong, so can't you.

>The fact that she clearly stated that it was her intention to kill.
Once again, she wanted to take the blame. Yea, retarded.

>The fact that she does kill in every episodes before that are supposed to be viable versions of the event.
The original purpose of the tales were to hide the truth, not tell it.

>The fact that the roulette only works if you bet everything, it's not something halfassed like a fake murder party.
Because we know everything about the "roulette", right? I think a fake murder mystery, with people unaware it's fake and a bomb ticking for a conclusion is enough.

>The fact that neither Will nor Battler ever even thought or said that Beatrice wasn't the culprit.
She is the culprit in the tales, she made herself to be. They both also say they understand and forgive her.

>>6672671
>>6672702

Schrödinger's Yasu.
Both are correct.

>>6672700
>Beatrice is considered the culprit of Umineko, it was stated textually in episode 7, learn to read.

And it was also stated she's NOT Rokkenjima prime culprit

>>6672709
Only person who could have killed him in the episode 7 tea party would be Eva, she had the potential (shown in episode 3)

It's another Cat Box, with battler being the cat.

>>6672709
Unless Eva decides to ocult him as Amakusa i guess he's dead.

>>6672717
Ryukishi, you magnificent bastard.

>>6672721

Oh Will, you are such a gentleman ~

>>6672702
>So there is the fact that it is guaranteed that Beatrice had a way to give back the lives that she had taken if someone solved the epitaph.
IN THE GOLDEN LAND

>Fake twilight deaths in 5 and 6 with the same setup as in the question arcs.
They don't have the same setup since Erika is there.
And it only tells something about the one who directed these games, Lambda and Battler both didn't want people to solve their games unlike Beatrice.
It's stated in an early episode that the fact that Beatrice kills also mean she put herself in danger of being found out and her game of being solved.

>6 is a full confession, and its premise is fake twilight deaths being hijacked and turned into real murders.
The premise of this episode is for Battler to show that he understand Beatrice's heart perfectly.
People dying during the event isn't a prerequisite>>6672702
, but they all have to die at the bomb.

>The fact that we clearly see Kumasawa and Gohda setting up faked deaths in EP4.
You mean the accomplices who later get killed most likely by Yasu in a way that is completely sure (red and Battler sees their bodies)?

>We see Beatrice bribing parents into participating in the fantasy in EP2.
And then they all appear with their stomaches for everyone to see, sure is fake murder here.

>The fact that real murders would defeat the entire purpose of the roulette to begin with.
The purpose of the roulette is to bet everything to create a miracle, the purpose would be defeated if Yasu didn't bet EVERYTHING.

>Battler forgiving Beatrice for everything, begging her for forgiveness, falling in love with and marrying her, and Will willing to die to protect her.
Because he feels sorry for her since she did suffer, because in the end she is just a pittiful person who felt cornered.

Also grow a brain

>>6672712
>The original purpose of the tales were to hide the truth, not tell it.
She wanted Battler to find the truth.

>The bomb exploded in the real incident, it needs to explode in every single possibility inside the box.
And in these "possibilities" someone has to activate it.
Or does it get activated by magic?

Ep 1-4 don't have fake murders.

But this doesn't really mean shit, it happens inside the cat box.

"Hey Jessica you are dead. Ops, you are alive again"

>>6672761
Umineko in its entirety happens in the cat box, that's the whole point.

>>6672746
>IN THE GOLDEN LAND
Wrong. It was a condition of her challenge regarding if someone could solve the epitaph. Someone solves it? The game ends, the witch persona is dead, she gives up everything, and... somehow everyone dead is restored.

>They don't have the same setup since Erika is there.
And it only tells something about the one who directed these games, Lambda and Battler both didn't want people to solve their games unlike Beatrice.
It's stated in an early episode that the fact that Beatrice kills also mean she put herself in danger of being found out and her game of being solved.
Yes, they have the same setup. The same damn magic circles and the same damn letters. Yasu was involved in orchestrating the fake murders of 5 and 6 and much as in the other episodes.

>The premise of this episode is for Battler to show that he understand Beatrice's heart perfectly.
Boy howdy, you'd think the very premise of Beatrice's roulette and everything she was trying to do would be a key part of her heart. Ep6 was a full confession. Zero difficulty. Ep7 has "a little difficulty." Hmmm.

>>6672709

Battler and Kyrie did not cross paths. Kyrie sees him heading off to the chapel, then goes into the guesthouse to murder everyone. Before Battler gets to the chapel, Eva kills Rudolf.

God knows what happens to Battler.

>>6672772
>You mean the accomplices who later get killed most likely by Yasu in a way that is completely sure (red and Battler sees their bodies)?
You mean something you completely made up to sidestep the blatant fact that HEY, IT'S A FAKE MURDER PLOT GOING ON HERE?

>And then they all appear with their stomaches for everyone to see, sure is fake murder here.
Doesn't mean Yasu did it.

>The purpose of the roulette is to bet everything to create a miracle, the purpose would be defeated if Yasu didn't bet EVERYTHING.
By fucking around with the bomb alone she was betting everything. The purpose of the roulette was because Yasu couldn't decide her own future. If she was planning real murders? There's no decision. She has no future no matter what happens.

>Because he feels sorry for her since she did suffer, because in the end she is just a pittiful person who felt cornered.
Sorry, you don't fall in love with and marry/willingly sacrifice your life for the murderer of your family who had some pitiful reasons. Featherine and Ange agreed, don't bother them about it.

>>6672654
You seem to forget where you are. This is 4chan. Of course it's impossible.

>>6672746
>So there is the fact that it is guaranteed that Beatrice had a way to give back the lives that she had taken if someone solved the epitaph.
>IN THE GOLDEN LAND
Yasu knows magis is bullshit.

>And it only tells something about the one who directed these games, Lambda and Battler both didn't want people to solve their games unlike Beatrice.
It's the anwer arc, they're meant to contain answers.

>It's stated in an early episode that the fact that Beatrice kills also mean she put herself in danger of being found out and her game of being solved.
Because a witch cannot kill people, thus someone else needing to have done it.

>The fact that we clearly see Kumasawa and Gohda setting up faked deaths in EP4.
>You mean the accomplices who later get killed most likely by Yasu in a way that is completely sure (red and Battler sees their bodies)?
Or it could have been a fake death, turned into a real death later.

>The purpose of the roulette is to bet everything to create a miracle, the purpose would be defeated if Yasu didn't bet EVERYTHING.
Once again, I think a fake murder mystery, with people unaware it's fake and a bomb ticking for a conclusion is enough.

>Because he feels sorry for her since she did suffer, because in the end she is just a pittiful person who felt cornered.
Or because he realized she wasn't at fault. And even tried to make amends.

if there are no fake murders then how do you explain that "illusions to illusions" shit that Will uses to answer some of the riddles?

ITT:

>Whiteknight Yasufags trying to save her maiden heart by saying she was making a fake murder plot, even though in EP 7 she clearly says she was going to kill everyone, right to the faces of the adults.

yeah okay then.

best joke end: adults solve epitaph, distribute gold, and what they actually fight over is who gets gohda. lol

idk i wish he had a point to the story, everyone does but him

Wow, people calling others retards because they don't accept "the culprit is just a madman who believes magic is real"?

That's not a mystery culprit. If that's the motive, then it's a bad book.

>>6672776
>Doesn't mean Yasu did it
THEN WHO?

Solve episode 1-2 without Yasu culprit, do it.

>>6672788
The illusion part refers to them faking their death. EP 2 is an illusion, for example, because Kanon never had a real body to lose and Yasu just left after killing Jessica and turned into Shannon.

>>6672776
>Doesn't mean Yasu did it.

As much i like "the fake murder theory", Yasutrice obviously killed everyone in ep 1-2 and ep 3. It would be retarded otherwise to continue the fake murder plot if someone was hijacking you.

>>6672742
Is that cardcaptors? Her hair color is off, though...

>>6672784
>>It's the anwer arc, they're meant to contain answers.

...no.
Now, go out of here instead of saying bullshit again.
Umineko != Higurashi.

>>6672788
Illusion to illusion basically mean "it's magic bullshit, get out"

>>6672794

Are you joking? The whole problem with those two episodes is that you can solve them with fucking anyone as the culprit.

>>6672810
Solve episode 1 with anyone who isn't Yasu then.
Let me laugh.

>>6672810
Go.

>>6672810

Nope, you cant.

Will agree, don't bother him. He CLEARLY stated he's the culprit.

But it means shit, Beato killed everyone because she wanted Battler to find the truth.

>>6672801
The description of the episodes says they have lower difficulty, it even says Ep6 has no longer any difficulty at all. It's giving away answers, you just need to think to get them properly.

>>6672827
Of course they are answer arc, they answer the main mystery of Umineko aka Beatrice's heart.
So what?

Fake murder mystery vs. crazy murders!

The new Shkanontrice vs. anti-Shkanontrice!

CHOSE YOUR SIDE!

Without love.....
.....It cannot be seen!

>>6672810
The mackerel is the culprit.

Go.

>>6672833
They don't. They are giving hints, like ep 1-4. answer arcs are like in higurashi, where everything is litteraly spelled for you. Not the case here, no matter what you think, and this thread alone should be a proof (and by the way, it is completely intended by Ryukishi).

>>6672838
And it's always one side full of retards who ignore everything the game says just to go in their la la la land.
Seriously I'm tired of this, why is there so many idiots in this fandom?

>>6672838

I'm in between.
I agree on fake murders on Rokkenjima prime, but i also agree that Ep 1-4 were Yasutrice slaughterfest

Also, Will is hot.

>>6672833
So, it's not just "And it only tells something about the one who directed these games, Lambda and Battler both didn't want people to solve their games unlike Beatrice."

There are anwers in there.

>>6672827
these description don't mean anything. Damn. You were not here during the "easy" ep 5, weren't you?

>>6672838
Goddamn, I forgot my image. I failed you all.

>>6672857
What happened on the island is irrelevant.
Beatrice's heart is found in the countless Shannon/Kanon's scenes.

But the way the game happened clearly tell more about the people who directed them than what really happened.
Episode 6 showed Beatrice's heart in an obvious way because Battler had to prove that he really understood it.

>>6672850
>and by the way, it is completely intended by Ryukishi

This.

It really is Schrödinger's Yasu.

>>6672867
It was "easy", as in it gave vital answers/clues. The man from 19 years ago for instance.

>>6672878
And because Battler had to prove he knew everything, he showed the fake murders gone wrong.

>>6672850
>and by the way, it is completely intended by Ryukishi

I doubt it, honestly Umineko isn't something full of subtlety and especially episode 7 hammered things a lot, all these discussions tell more about the readers than the game itself.

>>6672867
In retrospect it was pretty easy, though.

>>6672821
Yasu setting up a fake murder mystery means that there were legitimate fake murder mystery answers. The answer Yasu would have wanted Battler to come up with wasn't "hey it's all faked", but "Yasu is the culprit, here is how they did it."

Will solved Yasu's mystery and the answers she designed where she was the culprit. It was also obvious that he was respectful of what she was trying to do by covering up the real truth.

>>6672897
No, stop mixing shit.

And your fake murder gone wrong is just stupid.
There is no fake murder gone wrong in episode 1-4 since nobody but Yasu could kill most of the time.
There is no fake murder gone in wrong in the tea party of episode 7 since Yasu didn't have the time to do anything.

So why would Battler have to show it?
He simply did it because he is too soft, that's all.

>>6672897
And when Battler realized the full truth of Beatrice and what she was trying to do in Episode 5, one of his first moves against Erika was the revelation that the twilight deaths, complete with magic circles and all, were faked.

>>6672897

EP 1-4 don't have fake murders.
It doesn't even make sense. She doesn't have to do fake murders.

It would be especially retarded from Yasu to continue fake murders when someone was Hijacking you

"Hey guys, lie down here for a while and hope the real culprit doesn't shot you on the face"

>>6672916
Yeah, it's like people in this thread don't have any logic.
Seriously guys, just think a little before thinking, it's not that hard.

>>6672903
with knowledge of everything after it, yes. at the moment it goes out, no.
>>6672900
It is, if it wasn't he would give an easy and clear truth and everything would be settled.
Moreover, he is saying since CENTURIES that he will not give a clear answer like in Higurashi, so people should really try to read his interviews before talking.
Instead of this, no matter what YOU think, someone can interpret things differently you you have NO way to prove that you are right. It is not really what an answer arc is.

>>6672914
>He simply did it because he is too soft, that's all.

This is never stated anywhere. Guess what is stated? Full confession. Zero difficulty. Battler demonstrating his complete understanding of Beatrice and what she was doing. Sorry, but writing off the nature of the roulette as unimportant to Beatrice's heart and understanding her is totally ridiculous.

My issues: Why the FUCK does Kumasawa keep going along with all this shit when Yasu's murdering people? Guilt only goes so far, it certainly wouldn't make you keep covering up the culprit of the murder of innocent people.

Genji I can get. Genji is fucked in the head and obsessed with honour and loyalty, it makes sense for his character. But Kumasawa?

>>6672936
Nanjo too. Nanjo and Kumasawa are pretty much normalfags.

Makes sense if it's a fake murder prank. Just sayin'.

>>6672915
Which was in line with this episode since unlike episode 1-4.

In episode 5 it was always obvious that they were all conspiring to create a fake murder mystery, even the reaction of the characters to the deaths was telling.
It was an episode that was supposed to be full of poison from start to finish, Lambda wanted it to be unsolvable and what way is better for a murder mystery to be unsolvable than simply not having any murder?

This discussion is nice and all, but fakemurderfags and crazymurderfags just don't roll off the tongue at all.

What am I supposed to call you guys?

>>6672941
Even then, given the circumstances and the tension between everyone, I'm not sure they would join in.

>>6672931
The roulette is important but it was shown in the fantasy scenes as part of the love duel.

Battler doesn't have to kill though since the only prerequisite to create the tale is Beatrice's heart + Bomb.

Who kill is irrelevant in the long run, episode 7 itself repeated it again.

>>6672914
>>6672916
Of course Eps 1-4 don't have fake murders. Yasu wrote 1-2 to cover up the truth and blame Beatrice. AuAu found the essence of the games and did the same.

In the real Rokkenjima, Yasu was planning to spin the roulette by making the fake murder mystery and using the bomb as a time limit, giving everything back once it was solved. But it went down in a horrible way, the adults solved the epitaph and started fighting amongst themselves, having a tragic result. Yasu created the catbox to shut the truth there. Eva locked it and carved a truth she swore to protect in the lid.

Years later, Ange opens the catbox.

>>6672949
I think "smart people" and "stupid people" will work

>>6672949
Illusionfags and crazyfags, anything of the sort. Just go on and ask will, he is good for poetic names and metaphors.

>>6672928
>Moreover, he is saying since CENTURIES that he will not give a clear answer like in Higurashi

And that is why, at its core, Umineko will always suck. You CANNOT have a mystery novel with no debriefing!

If the detective never says "You are the culprit, this is how and why you did it step by step, and this is why noone else could have done it!" with the culprit replying "Yes you are exactly right, and here are some more specific details that only the culprit would know!" then no reader can ever tell if they got the right answer! Which means there *is* no right answer. You haven't written a mystery novel, you've just written a vaguely worded story that can be interpreted several ways.

>>6672962
>In the real Rokkenjima, Yasu was planning to spin the roulette by making the fake murder mystery and using the bomb as a time limit,

And how do you know this? Yasu herself said that she planned on killing them
You are completely delusional

>>6672962
We haven't been shown the real Rokkenjima, never will.
We aren't out of the cat box yet.
So why would Yasu now have a completely different mindset?
One of the rule is "all the pieces always have the same personality, setting and goal" you know.

>>6672978
The very meaning of the catbox.
Also, I disapprove with you. A skilled writer can make somet hing good with it. Now, we only have to wait for ep8 in order to see if Ryu is a "skilled writer"

>>6672978
Honestly it kind of goes along with the theme of truth in the games, though.

Beatrice can't just tell Battler the truth--that would render it practically meaningless. He has to realize it on his own, though help isn't forbidden.

Ryukishi is being our help right now, is all.

>>6672982
7's tea party was missing the heart and Bern's red text was never finished.

>>6672978
You must be a passive reader if you are saying things like that.

I find it amazing that some people still have completely contradictory views of what happened when there's clearly only 1 answer when you open the box.

>>6672993
Yasu wrote herself as the culprit in 1-2, so of course she's going to be the culprit there. Auau wrote 3-4 based on those, so of course Yasu is going to be the culprit in those too.

Can you just sit back for a second and really discern what you're arguing here?

>>6673026
>completely contradictory views of what happened when there's clearly only 1 answer when you open the box

That's kind of the whole point.

>>6673040
Sorry, I also meant that said answer is obvious by now.

>>6673001
>>6672997

The problem is when we get to the end. What if Ryukishi never says which theories are right or wrong? So you finish, and you lay out your theory of what happened, and... what? Where's the reward?

When you finish a mystery novel,you come up with you theory. Then you read the reasoning and confession. If you were right, you go "Yes! I am a genius, I solved the crime correctly!", and if you were wrong you go "Damn! I was wrong. But I see which clues I was mislead by, and what I missed; I guess the author outsmarted me this time!". Or "that was too easy" and "that's bullshit, no one could figure that out" if it was a BAD mystery novel.

Without the explanation, there's no way to get any satisfaction, and there's no way to even tell if it was a well written mystery!

>>6673010
You are now realizing what "heart" actually means.

And no, I'm not implying you're wrong. Quite the contrary.

>>6672936

money, gold, greed

remember the envelopes from ep4?

>>6673057
Ryukishi is one big troll, we've known this since the beginning.

When 8 comes out...prepare for the massive tears that will flow from /jp/ like a river of rage, no matter what happens.

>>6673057

>thinking is too hard please give me a step by step of every single mystery ryukishi

>>6673072
Yea, bribes are acceptable to make someone an accomplice in mass murder, but not to make them play along with a faked mystery.

>>6673083

Did you even read what I wrote? Or any mystery novel? You come up with the answer BEFORE the reveal. If you were right, you win. Wrong, you lose.

>>6673105

Don't you think Ryu07 would've known the answer all along in order to have built a 7 episode labyrinth around it?

Obviously we can glean things from this, most people have figured it out anyway and theres still an episode left. Sorry you're not getting spoonfed the answer (even though you pretty much are at this point, and theres still one episode left)

>>6673105
While what you wrote makes sense, I'm afraid you're the one in error here. You see, you're making the terribly inaccurate assumption that Umineko is of the mystery genre.

Does anyone have the whole illusions to illusions thing with Clair and Will?

>>6673182
You know what? Umineko needs a genre by itself...

The genres out there...just don't properly describe it..

First game, first twilight. Six corpses in the gardening shed."
"Illusions to illusions. ......The corpse that cannot return to earth returns to illusions."

"First game, second twilight. Two corpses are close together in a closed room protected by a chain."
"Illusions to illusions. ......A chain of illusions can only hold back illusions."

"First game, fourth twilight. The old Head from the closed room study, confined in a scorching furnace."
"Illusions to illusions. ......Let the man of illusions go to where he belongs."

"Fifth game, fifth twilight. The last moments of the sacrificed boy with a stake in his chest."
"Illusions to illusions. ......The witch and stake of illusions can pierce naught but illusions."

"First game, sixth, seventh, and eighth twilights. The corpses lying in the closed room of the singing girl."
"Illusions to illusions. ......Illusions are the blind girl's song. Illusion of a closed room."

".........Well done. ......Yes, it seems you really are splendid."
"......That was a risky game from the very start. ......What if the guy really wanted to see that dead face and just stepped inside?"
"That's what it means to abandon one's self to fate."
"......And that's the roulette you were talking about."

>>6673200
First game, first twilight. Six corpses in the gardening shed."
"Illusions to illusions. ......The corpse that cannot return to earth returns to illusions."

"First game, second twilight. Two corpses are close together in a closed room protected by a chain."
"Illusions to illusions. ......A chain of illusions can only hold back illusions."

"First game, fourth twilight. The old Head from the closed room study, confined in a scorching furnace."
"Illusions to illusions. ......Let the man of illusions go to where he belongs."

"Fifth game, fifth twilight. The last moments of the sacrificed boy with a stake in his chest."
"Illusions to illusions. ......The witch and stake of illusions can pierce naught but illusions."

"First game, sixth, seventh, and eighth twilights. The corpses lying in the closed room of the singing girl."
"Illusions to illusions. ......Illusions are the blind girl's song. Illusion of a closed room."

".........Well done. ......Yes, it seems you really are splendid."
"......That was a risky game from the very start. ......What if the guy really wanted to see that dead face and just stepped inside?"
"That's what it means to abandon one's self to fate."
"......And that's the roulette you were talking about."

>>6673222
"Let us continue. Second game, first twilight. Six with their stomachs split in the closed room chapel."
"Illusions to illusions. ......The gold truth locks the lock of illusions."

"Second game, second twilight. The corpses of the two who are close are not close."
"Illusions to illusions. ......Illusions who have fulfilled their role do not leave a corpse."

"Second game, fourth, fifth, and sixth twilights. In Natsuhi's closed room, none are left alive."
"Earth to earth. ......No one would dispute that a coffin is a closed room."

"Second game, seventh and eighth twilights. The two sliced to death by the red-eyed phantom."
"Earth to earth. Illusions to illusions. ......No illusion can create a corpse."

"Third game, first twilight. Six corpses connected by the linked closed rooms."
"Illusions to illusions. ......In a closed room ring, the end and the beginning overlap."

"Third game, second twilight. The corpses of mother and child lay together in the rose garden."
"Earth to earth. ......No falsehoods in their final moments as told."

"Third game, fourth, fifth, and sixth twilights. Three corpses lying in the mansion."
"Earth to earth. ......No falsehoods in their final moments as told."
"Third game, seventh and eighth twilights. The corpses of husband and wife lay exposed under the arbor."
"Earth to earth. ......The obvious culprit wields a mutable blade."

>>6673228
"Fourth game, first twilight. A massacring storm sweeps through the dining hall."
"Illusions to illusions. ......Tales woven by the gold truth return to illusions."

"Fourth game, second twilight. The two young ones face their trials and pass away together."
"Illusions to illusions. ......Tales woven by the gold truth return to illusions."

"Fourth game, fourth fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth twilights. None of the runaways are left alive."
"Earth to earth. Illusions to illusions. ......Silent corpses, adorned by fiction."

"Fourth game, ninth twilight. And none shall be left alive."
"Earth to earth. Illusions to illusions. ......When fiction is shut up inside a cat box, it becomes truth."
"......Then, one final question."
".........Sure."
"Who...aaam I......?"
"Illusions...to illusions. ......The promised reaper lowers the curtains on the tale regardless of the witch's will."

>>6673182
Exactly.

>>6673269
Hasn't Ryukishi even said from the beginning that there's never been a guarantee that Umineko is a mystery?

Okay, I guess this is how it goes:

Yasu kills everyone because she is crazy. Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa are accomplices. The three work with Yasu for money and guilt: we know they are capable of this, because they helped Kinzo to imprison and rape a young girl (his own daughter) and never stopped him or told the police.

But in EP1's first twilight, Hideyoshi is also an accomplice. Why does he do this? He needs money, but does he really believe that he and Eva will be able to survive? And in episodes where Nanjo, Kumasawa and Genji are not killed at once, shouldn't they stop cooperating when one of them is killed? It's obvious then that Yasu is going to try and kill them.

>>6673273
I'm guessing that some of the murders aren't planned by the mastermind. Like the situation with Kyrie and Eva in the teaparty, someone doesn't really die or kills a/the murder in defense and possibly kills other people in order to escape or something.

>>6673273
>But in EP1's first twilight, Hideyoshi is also an accomplice. Why does he do this?

Same with Rosa in EP2 obviously.

Battler has a Yasu bias, do remember everything s/he did was for him.

If, say, Jessica was in his place, we might see a bit more of an angry reaction.

Relative morality, it's much easier to forgive someone when you are in love with them.

>>6673329
He also said he tortured her and cried because she "didn't wait for him" and talked about how he might have been able to save her. That's going a little far for someone that killed your entire family because you didn't come back on a white horse for them after your mom died.

>>6673329
Even then, I hope Yasu is a lot more heroic or George/Jessica is a lot more villainous.

I just can't justify Yasu right now, s/he doesn't warrant the pretty prose that s/he's been given.

Granted, if this was all in his/her head then I guess one could say it's Yasu justifying it in his/her head.

If you want a "Good End", look to the end of episode 6.

This series is not ending well, if you haven't gotten the memo yet.

>>6673337
I find it rather easy to justify.

Here's a broken human being, she's crazy. I just feel sorry for her.

ok so i was watching these 3 japanese cartoons and i was wondering if every single japanese cartoon is the same

>>6673349
All murderers are crazy in some sense, what we have to look to is how freaking selfish s/he was in his/her actions.

Gambling the lives of innocent people, lives s/he had no right to risk, it's beyond pity.

Also, you're clearly suffering from the same bias the shipperfags do. Yasu is not a he for sure or a she for sure, and yet your usage of "her" indicate your white knight nature.

Don't let the dai music get in the way of the truth.

>>6673271
In the second opening. So who cares.

Hey guys, explain how Yasu would do the Second Episode First Twilight.

The only Key was in the envelope which Rosa got the day before. The envelope was never opened. No hidden doors.

And don't say something like the door was always opened as the key is needed to lock it because it was a shitty old door.

>>6673370
Doesn't matter if Yasu is male or female, but two of the three aspects of Yasu we see are female, therefore it's easier to use female pronouns. Sorry I'm not interested in being dehumanizing and using "it" or whatever you want.

>>6673370
>>Don't let the dai music get in the way of the truth.
I love you sir.

>>6673382
I don't use it, I use he/she, him/her.

You'd know this if you bothered to read my post, as you would agree with me if you actually bothered to read Umineko.

/r/ing good end 2 comic that was posted a couple threads back?

>>6673392
Yeah, that doesn't sound clunky at all. Sticking to female pronouns thanks.

>>6673382
>Kanon
>female

>>6673381
Kinzo had a master key

>>6673381
The gold truth locks the lock of illusions, bro.

>>6673382
I don't like this "It doesn't matter". Lion's genre is supposed to be one of the mystery of the game, and it is even said in the story itself. So before saying that "it doesn't matter", you should try to think about why it could matter.

>>6673348
Why would you trust Bern?

I haven't been following these threads (I finished episode 7 just now), so I hope this hasn't been discussed to death already.

Why is it exactly 2,578,917?
At first I thought it was just some random number that's supposed to sound big, but Bernkastel keeps talking as if there's 2,578,917 fragments in total, and Lion is only accepted by Natsuhi in a single one of them, hence the inescapable fate of being killed by Kyrie. Or that's what she says, anyway.

Is there some obvious or not-so-obvious reason for this number that I'm missing?

>>6673392
I'm a Yasu fan, that's why I use she. Not because I'm interested in whiteknighting--Yasu can have beat everyone's face in and I'd still adore her--but because I feel it's the right thing to do for someone that suffered from debilitating mental pain from gender-related issues. Whether or not Yasu's sex is female, it's obviously the path she's chosen in her love life and gender identity. I accept that.

>>6673413
The accident left it sterile. Body unable to love, furniture, etc

>>6673408
>doesn't know what "two of three" means.

>>6673231
>"Illusions...to illusions. ......The promised reaper lowers the curtains on the tale regardless of the witch's will."
>regardless of the witch's will

Reaper=culprit
Witch=Yasu

Remember how everyone assumed Shannon was raped?

Yeah.

Those few who actually sympathize with the ,murderous crossdressing freak are about as delusional as she is.

Feel sorry for Gohda, Jessica, and Maria before you feel sorry for the selfish crossdresser.

>>6673435
That's referring to the bomb.

>> but Bernkastel keeps talking as if there's 2,578,917 fragments in total, and Lion is only accepted by Natsuhi in a single one of them, hence the inescapable fate of being killed by Kyrie. Or that's what she says, anyway.


She looked through this number of fragments in order to find a living Lion IIRC. There is almost an infinity of fragments, so it's not the total. But yeah, this is the meaning of this number. and even after X.XXX.XXX fragments, Yasu still die. Or so she says.

>>6673440
>Feel sorry for Gohda, Jessica, and Maria before you feel sorry for the selfish crossdresser.
Nah, they're boring. I'll feel sorry for the selfish crossdresser before I do them.

>>6673440
I can understand Jessica and Gohda, but Maria is just annoying. Why should I feel sorry for her?

>>6673422
>Yasu can beat in anyone's face and I still adore her
Least you're honest.

Personally, I find self-absorbed murderers abhorrent, but I commend your honesty.

>>6673409
It'
s stated in Red that there was only one Key to the Chapel. None of the Master Keys work on it as the lock was too old.

Literal Red
>Only one key to the chapel exists
>It is impossible to unlock the lock to the chapel without the chapel's key

>>6673424
your point?
"It" still had a gender when he was born.
By the way, we don't know. Unable to love, yes. Sterile, it's a possibility. Anyway, Lion is still between the two WITHOUT an accident.

>>6673452
She had Rosa and Yasu as her two mentor figures.
Think about that for a moment.

>>6673417
>Why is it exactly 2,578,917?

Because it's digital root is 3?

*shrug*

>>6673417
The amount of kakera, I think. Or possibilities/outcomes.

>>6673464
But Rosa is my favorite of the adults.

>>6673471
They are referred as "countless". Not enough, for me, to be "countless".

>>6673476
She's entertaining, but having her as a mother wouldn't exactly be the ideal situation.

>>6673442
Or death in general. Anyways, what's important to point out is the "regardless of the witch's will" part. If Yasu really did it (or even intended to) kill everyone, then why specify that? Wouldn't be "according to the witch's will" or something. And Will is the closes thing we have for "objective standpoint".

And stop the whiteknight accusations. I just want to solve this shit.

>>6673381
> And don't say something like the door was always opened as the key is needed to lock it because it was a shitty old door.
If you believe that the adults did indeed go into the chapel earlier that night, then the door being unlocked from the start is a prerequisite for that.

>>6673468
What's with all the digital roots lately?

>>6673485
I don't know, the only game I remember where digital roots are important is 999.

>>6673485

Hard to stop doing it on habit after reading 999.

>>6673480
Well let's see YOUR mom taking down an horde of goatmen.

>>6673485
If you don't know, go read 999.

>>6673447
I thought of that, too, but it still wouldn't explain why she's so certain. She says there's a chance of 1 out of 2,578,917 for Lion to be accepted, and that Lion is killed in that one fragment.
But if you raise the number of fragments by just one, Lion might be accepted in that additional fragment and survive the incident. Then Lion's death wouldn't be certain but just a 50% possibility.

Now, sure, I could imagine Bern purposefully omitting that just for fun, but it'd still seem a bit lame.

>>6673468
Or this. Who knows?

>>6673417
this comic countains your answer.

>>6673417
>Why is it exactly 2,578,917?

Bern could be purposely misleading them in the sense that, "She searched for the first Lion fragment she could find, and it was the 2,578,917th. Then she stopped looking for more because she was lazy. In that one, he died. He might have not died in one if she looked through a few more 2,578,917s of fragments."

>>6673496
It is not certain. If you keep searching, there is probably a future where Lion life AND there is an happy end. But keep in mind that at this point, she wants Lion to lose hope. Completely. Remember what was Will's advice when he came and save the day?


Anyway, she wants Lion to give up. That's why she fives a "probability of 100%". Even if it is probably not the case.

>>6673509
>>6673496
It is not certain. If you keep searching, there is probably a future where Lion life AND there is an happy end. But keep in mind that at this point, she wants Lion to lose hope. Completely. Remember what was Will's advice when he came and save the day?


Anyway, she wants Lion to give up. That's why she gives a "probability of 100%". Even if it is probably not the case.

>>6673500
I've been trying to avoid episode 7 spoilers before I finished it, so I don't know that one.

>1.jpg

I assume it's longer, yes?
Waiting warmly.


>>6673506
>>6673509
Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm guessing, but I still think it's a pretty boring explanation.
But then again, that's also my opinion on the whole Yasu thing in general. Whatever, it's still an enjoyable read.

>>6673509

Pretty sure Ryuukishi made it 100% on purpose. That was the whole point of Higurashi, after all. There WAS no Fragment where Rika lived, period. They had to literally piece one together and MAKE Matsuribayashi-hen's Fragment.

So 'it's a certain fate' is guaranteed by Lambda, and that there will be no miracle is guaranteed by Bern. I don't see it ending well.

>>6673519
I don't know if that guy's going to post more, so I'll go ahead.

>>6673528

>>6673521
Ryukishi did say in an interview that Umineko's ending wasn't necessarily the end of Umineko as a whole.

It seems to me that there is still a huge miscarriage of justice going on here, and I think eventually it will be corrected.

I have no doubt Battler and Yasu will get a good end, but the others are pretty much fucked. And I don't think the others can really stay fucked without that being addressed.

>>6673528
>she wants to fuck

>>6673532

>>6673528
Thank you.

>>6673540

>>6673545

>>6673535
If Jessica doesn't get a good end, I'm bombing R07.

>>6673550

>>6673528
I was afk, so I'm going to let you do now that you started. Thanks.
This comic is really touching, by the way.
>>6673519
I can understand, I also have my personal theory about Yasu.
Well. Ep7 worth the read in any case, if only for Will and Bice.

>>6673554

>>6673561
BAD END

...And that's all. Touching indeed.

>>6673521
I've always seen the kakera as a "sea of possibilities", so to me it is rather hard to count them, because it can change according to your state of mind

>>6673552
She's not getting a good end, and trust me, I wish she was.

Her death meant far more than her death, it symbolized the objective destruction that Yasu and the Adult's greed caused.

No amount of forgiveness or sympathy can undue that which already has been done.

And so the pangs of reality have tempered the desire for reconciliation...

Leaving misery and righteous fury in its wake.

>>6673568
Yeah. Jessica's death scene was the moment I realized we're locked in for BAD END.

Unless of course Jessica was a terrorist, and Kyrie savagely beat her to death FOR AMERICA!

>>6673565
ahaha.wav

>>6673565
FFFFFFFFFFFFFF-

The good ending is when Battler, Will and Ange all get crushed by Bern.

>>6673565
...;~;

>>6673622
/jp/ - Masochists.

Seriously, I won't be surprised if you Bern and/or Yasu supporters end up dying by masturbating upside-down while wearing a Batman costume.

>>6673622
So what you're saying is, Bern confirmed in red that she's gonna lose.

Okay, sure.

>>6673567

Well yeah, that's what it is. But if something isn't possible, it won't show up. That's the point. Just as there won't be a Fragment where humans suddenly spontaneously sprout wings, there won't be one where Yasu survives.

>>6673072
You don't even need this.
Yasu is the successor, and the servants (Gohda excluded) and Nanjo will obey the head, and if that isn't enough, he can pay them plenty, however I think they'll just go along with it due to loyalty. Do you remember the ceremony where Yasu becomes the successor? Yasu would easily make fake murders if (s)he wanted. The problems appear when the rest think the murders are real and freak out and then they may end up killing each other. The situation where they find the gold early on is kind of boring and predictable, although it's a bit sad that the adults would be so greedy and not show a semblance of care for human life/existence (it's kind of pushed by the accidental discharge, but it would probably have happened anyway).

I'll just pretend that Gohda used duct tape to save himself, Jessica, and Maria, and that they moved to San Francisco for a wacky, yet heart-warming, sitcom.

>>6673568
>>6673597
I don't buy it. I'm still betting on a miracle in episode 8. ;_;

>>6673650
Fund it.

>>6673635
I don't think Bern or Yasu would do that.
>>6673641
Bern can't really lose at this point. The only possibility of her losing, and this is barring some new circumstance in episode 8, is if Yasu gets a happy ending.

>>6673650
EVERYBODY LOVES GOHDA

The laugh track is just multiple layers of ahaha.wav.

>>6673057
The trick to ALL mystery novels is to have enough clues to justify many different types of endings.

For example, let's imagine Jessica ends up as a bad guy. There's enough in the story to make such a decision valid, just as there is enough evidence to make such a decision invalid.

Basically, a good author makes it so any path can lead to victory, as opposed to just one or two.

>>6673650
Gohda: Jessica, where have you been?
Jessica: Oh, I met some nice girls down the block, we had a gay old time
"Audience Laughs"

Couldn't the red text in the tea party have meant that there won't be a happy ending for Bern?

>>6673662
I don't know, that doesn't seem right to me.

A good author should make it so that if you miss just one hint, multiple endings seem possible; but if you gather them all, you should be able to solve the mystery with certainty, just like the detective. Else, what is the point?

>>6673670
Let's say that's true. What's an unhappy ending for Bern? She loses the battle. How does she lose? She loses if Yasu has a happy ending.

>>6673506
I don't think the chance is that much of a miracle.
What if there's an infinity of kakera's? Or an incredibly large number like 10**100? You still have a lot of choice there.

It's like the guess that in our universe, only one in a million could support a specific type of life and in those only one in a million (mostly pulling numbers out of my ass, but it's not that unlikely) could develop life, but if there's billiards of planents, you'd still have millions of them where intelligent life still develops, even if they are sparse and in possibly different periods of time and with large distances between them that even if some of them do develop interstellar travel, they'd still be limited by fundamental limits like the speed of light...

>>6673681
At last someone who actually understands.

Plus, by now it's pretty much obvious which one is the true ending of the opened cat box. The rest are just endless tales of illusion or incorrect theories based on unfinished or undiscovered hints.

>>6673703
Just in case, most people do understand. But any ending which is not the "open the catbox" ending is not a true ending, just a possibility. So most people are not saying that there is "multiple ending possible".

>>6673703
Not to mention that multiple possible outcomes would also violate Knox's 6th.
If there's no decisive evidence and the detective still manages to guess the correct answer, that's luck and nothing more.

Not that all mysteries absolutely have to follow Knox or Van Dine. I'm just saying.

>>6673734
Oh, it just seems that from reading this thread, a high number of people actually think that those 2 days in Rokkenjima can actually end differently.

It started as a normal day.
17 people arrive, the Ushiromiya Family, its Servants, and Doctor Nanjo.
Little do they know, that all the pokemon of the world have come together at this island as well! Commanded by Arceus!
They go unnoticed until the night, and Darkrai slides into Kinzo's room...
Here, the five servants are found. Darkrai uses its hypnosis attack, causing them all to go to sleep; Then, it puts rare spear-shaped pokemon eggs on their bodies, so they can hatch warmly. Darkrai splits them up into separate rooms, locking them with a master key as he goes along. Little does he know the servants just happen to have the keys to all of the rooms their locked in in a circular fashion, thus created a linked closed room. After he finishes, he decides that six is a better number and adds Kinzo's body. Then he goes back to Shannon who's master key he took and feels bad for her and gives it back, and then he goes through the door because Darkrai can do that.

The next morning, the adults find the bodies. but they don't know that Darkrai can go through walls! So they think a witch did it! What silly people. They think they have been murdered but really they are just sleeping and having nice dreams. But the people just barricade themselves in because they think they are unsafe. Then while they are there, Eva solves the Epitaph! She runs out and finds Kinzo's secret Zigzagoon stash, which have been left unattended for along time. Their pickup abilities have gotten 10 tons of Gold Nuggets! Wow! She says. Then Rosa comes too and they say that they are friends and will share it. They go back. Later Rosa takes Maria outside. But the Pokemon Eggs have hatched! They are ALL Phione! And the Phione run around and around and around and push Rosa onto the fence by accident and hug Maria so much that she dies. Everyone sees them and goes Oh No! It is a tragic accident.

>>6673754
Later, Rudolf, Kyrie, and Hideyoshi leave to go to the Mansion to get food. But, Giratina is there! Giratina is huge and when they come in Giratina turns around, but his huge spiky things stab them all and get stuck in their wounds! Giratina runs away in shame. They are found dead and everyone is very sad. Now everyone is very, very scared!
Later, in the Guesthouse, a tangela comes in and sees Krauss and Natsuhi. TANGELA TANGELA TANGELA! It says. And it plays with them a lot but accidentally suffocates them. And they die and are found later by their very sad friends. Then Jirachi comes and goes to George! And they talk and George wishes he could be with Shannon. So Jirachi makes his wish come true! And George teleports to the room shannon's in. But Giratina had run away to there! And when he sees George he turns to run away again but stabs them both again! And they die! How terrible.

Now you are probably saying, Ha! But that does not solve the next mysteries! But it does! Later, after Battler, Eva, Nanjo, and Jessica's fight, Jessica is blinded for real. Outside, is Nanjo. And so is his Killer!

>>6673745
Well, I wouldn't put it past Ryukishi, even if it would not be logical at all, I completely agree. but after Higurashi's ending, a "bad ending" is what would surprise me the most.

>>6673758

I know what you are thinking, that Eva-Beato said that a Human killed Nanjo. But, you are forgetting Jynx! The Humanshape Pokemon! Jynx uses her psychic powers and Nanjo's head explodes, by accident!

Eventually, Eva runs to the Gold Room. And she sees a switch, and she flips it! And a door opens!
and she sees....

GROUNDON!
ROAR! Says Groundon. And it says is will use Earthquake! So Eva runs all the way to Kuwadorian, too scared to go back for Battler and Jessica. But, there is no Kuwadorian. Instead, there is a huge pool- with Kyogre! Kyogre says, sorry, I used rain dance and caused the hurricane! and Eva says, You Killed My Family!
But Kyogre apologizes and says he can save Eva from Groundon's Earthquake. Kyogre dives deep with Eva as Groundon uses Earthquake, and the island explodes, taking everyone on it with him. Eva comes back, and uses her master ball on Kyogre. One day in the Future, Ange accidentally releases her Kyogre, and Eva hates Ange forever.
Later, when Ange returns to the island, Giratina, having turned to its Ghost form, follows her. When Ange is about to be shot, Giratina accidentally impales all the Guards, and later Ange.

There were no bad people at all, just Pokemon.

>>6673763
Wat. How does this.

>>6673763
Pokémon don't exist.

>>6673745
Wanta happy ending? It's simple, have Eva leave by herself, have everyone else leave and never come back to Japan with the money. Have bomb explode. Eva takes care of Ange.
It's kind of illogical why everyone would want to fake their death, but if they wanted to do it for the sake of money, it could be understandable.
All in all, this makes little sense if you try to reason to motive, but it is a "possible" world.

>>6673770
Prove it

>>6673774
Well, Maria
By the way, is her jaw mentionned again in ep4?

>>6673774
You're thinking of this

>>6673754
>>6673758
>>6673763
/vp/ is >>>>>>>>>>> that way

battler was on random drugs that he didn't know what they were? wtf

>>6673817
inb4 george sent them and they wiped his memories about shannon

>>6673774
Who said I want a happy ending?

I said that a lot of people want an ending and it's just not possible. Either they are just looking at walls of text with BGM instead of thinking while reading, or they are complete idiots.

>>6673823
Wrong. He became insane after this, became Yasu, fell in love with himself, and also created the Rokkenjima syndrome, which is why Genji is thinking he is a demon lord and all of this shits.

>>6673831
umineko solved forever

>>6673824
I would not say that it is "not possible". Remember that about 60% of manga/anime/whatever are about screwing destiny. improbable, but still possible, according to what you usually see.

>>6673837
I agree. But you have to remember that we're talking about R7 here. He's damn crazy.

captcha: mist siticest

Pic related to captcha.

>>6673837
Also, we have yet to see the miracle.

There is no way those 2 days can end in more than 1 way. Those who didn't miss any hint already know that.

But what we also know is that R7's stories aren't 100% mysteries. Even if we already know what happened on those 2 days, the whole story is not just about that.

That's why we need EP8.

Alright, I'm feeling retarded because I can't think of an explanation, so I'll just ask: In the scenarios where both Kanon and Shannon are found dead, how are there 2 bodies (especially in the 6 linked closed rooms)? Is there just some random body floating around? Is it a fake?

>>6673417

Why is it exactly 2,578,917?

Because it's a big number. And it's not a number with a lot of 0's or 5's, so it makes the number seem more believable.

>>6673913
Illusions to illusions.
......In a closed room ring, the end and the beginning overlap.

>>6673927
I say the second door in the boiler room is involved. I mean, it allows you to get out into the courtyard, from which you can access the main mansion, and I don't believe it has a lock on it.

>>6673329
On the other hand, you have Will, the total outsider who sympathized with Yasu enough to die protecting her, and Lion, who was completely horrified by the idea of what Yasu apparently did, throwing a screaming fit about how he couldn't understand, and yet came around and wanted to protect her as much as Will and Battler when she figured things out.

>>6673858
Autosaging, let's continue here?

Excuse me, will you tell me the mean 'Delicious Companion Burger' ? it means 'Sonozaki sisters' or 'Miyo Takano'?