/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Shannon was Yasu's blessed name.
Yasu never killed a single person.

>>6666503
So then...two Shannons? There was an older Shannon that Yasu looked up to.

>>6666517
No, that Shannon was Yasu's ideal. Notice how in every other episode Shannon is considered a very shitty maid while in this one flashback she all the sudden a perfect maid?

>>6666503
>>6666517
>>6666526

You can remove Shannon dialogs from the early chapters of Yasu life and nothing would changed.

She only came into existence after he became a witch and departed for a fantasy land

It makes sense but it is still pretty shaky.
Well, I also noticed this, but instead of shitty, I would say that "our" Shannon is clumsy. She's not that bad when she is not nervous.

>>6666517
No one but Yasu ever acknowledged that Shannon.

>>6666526
Hmm...I'm starting to understand...so Shannon is a complete and utter persona of Yasu. For a moment I thought Yasu based his/her Shannon off a real person and then replaced her.

>>6666513
>But that's pretty much what happened
Then explain to me how her being indecisive could possibly make her plan gruesome murders and possibly even carry them out?
That is not being indecisive.

>>6666540
New imaginary friend ftw.

>>6666546
Shannon is Yasu's imaginary friend. When Yasu finally decides to become a witch Yasu gives the main body to Shannon.

>>6666546
It was was was supposed some month ago. But it is even more shaky than this possibility.

>>6666546
It was what was supposed some month ago. But it is even more shaky than this possibility.

Yasu doesn't have DID.

The conversations she has with Beatrice aren't like the conversations she has with another person. They're the types of conversations you have with yourself, just personified. Beatrice is the aspect of her personality that believes in things like love and miracles, the part of herself that supports her flights of fancy and daydreams. Why do you think Beatrice is the one that becomes "subconscious" as Yasu grows older? Eventually you stop really believing in that stuff.

When Yasu gives up on Battler, she does it by rendering her love for him as an unobtainable fantasy, aka transferring it to "Beatrice". Something she'll never get closure on. This allows her to move on logically. When Battler comes back, her world is literally shifted upside down. It's like you telling yourself you don't believe in magic for three years and then you wake up one morning and find a unicorn that shits edible rainbows in your backyard.

Potential Theory for Jessica EP4:
Jessica arrives in her room, and is soon taken to the dining hall, either in person or by a letter. Here, she sees the six people Kumasawa and Gohda said to be dead seemingly dead on the ground; however, it is simply a fake murder scheme. George arrives soon after, or is already there. Then, the murderers arrive with guns; using them, they blow up the heads of those "dead" one by one, whilst threatening the two cousins. After they finish killing the six, they hold the cousins down, and start to give them commands, possibly having something to do with Battler's or Maria's test, or even to get themselves to Kuwadorian in an act of mercy. Either way, they both try to escape, and as George rebels he gets hit hard with a stake in the forehead, while Jessica manages to get away. She gets into the hallway her room is connected to before the killers can see down the hallway- as such, they don't know which room she hides herself in. In her own room, she locks the door and calls Battler. She tells him that they're magic so that Battler won't try to go against them; Jessica's figured out that the only way to survive is to agree. To also prevent him from trying to get revenge, she keeps the killers' identities secret. She knows that they'll come and shoot her head open, and she knows that George had been killed instantly; in the call, she actually says nothing about his location. As she finishes, the killers find her and shoot her.

>>6666527
> Then explain to me how her being indecisive could possibly make her plan gruesome murders and possibly even carry them out?
Because like father and grandfather, like son/daughter. Or are you forgetting that for forty years, the main Ushiromiya family has lived above 900(?) tons of dynamite?

guys , Ive been reading Umineko every year without re reading, so my mind is all over the place. Why did everybody stop caring for the gold/ why have they not bought up the riddle in a longgggggggggg time? doesn't everybody still need the gold like crazy? what happened?

Watch as Jessica knows a lot more than we thought and still ends up being good.

I can just taste the delicious tears from both sides.

>>6666589
Watch as Jessica continues to be nothing but a red herring that likes to punch things.

Man, Jessica's soul must be pretty fucking pissed.

>>6666581
Did you even read episode 7?

if Yasu and Shannon is the same person... WHO the hell is Lion? I mean both appears in the same dimension... the only difference was Shannon going nuts when called Kanon

>>6666589
Wouldnt Will hear this from her then due to his theatrical-magic-power?

>>6666578
Protip
You aren't being indecisive when you are planning possible murders, no matter who your grandparents are or how much explosives you sleep on.

>>6666596
Red herring? The mystery's over bro, we're discussing her own story, not Yasu's persona shenanigans.

>>6666612
What story? The one where she's a normal teenage girl that eventually gets her head beaten in by her bitchy aunt?

>>6666605
Will explains that. The world they were in was a mix of multiple fragments.

>>6666610
That's... not what the indecision is about.

>>6666646
Someone >>6666396 claimed she wasn't crazy for planning all the murders because she had DID.

But
>>6666435
>For the DID to be relevant, one of the personalities have to want murders to be able to happen, or the indecisiveness from conflicting goals have to be able to result in murders.

>As neither case should be true, neither should any DID matter.
It doesn't change anything and the DID is irrelevant.
So she has no excuse for plotting possible murders.

FFFFFFFFF

Fucking George.

>>6666636
It doesn't explain it exactly.
Or Shannon should not crash when trying to call Kanon.
The problem is that it crash with "Shannon x Kanon", but not with "Lion x Shannon".

The only explanation would be that there is only ONE Yasu in this mix of world, even with a world created with multiple fragments, and probably more than only two (although it is never said).

Which cause quite a mess, because we are trying to explain it with our logic, when you can not apply this logic for "superposed worlds".

Another possibility would be that Kanon is not "an human" in the same meaning as Lion. Lion have his own life. Kanon have his own life for the red, but not for this. Damn.

If we says that " other experiences = allowed to exist", then Lion is a different person. But Kanon also should. Even if he is in the "Shannon timeline", he is still supposed to "exist".

Also, because of this the chapel looks more like a sub-meta-world than a real world, anyway, so saying that "there is only one body for the two of them" doesn't really work...

>>6666742
>So she has no excuse for plotting possible murders.
Wait, excuses matter in plotting murders?

>>6666636
It doesn't explain it exactly.
Or Shannon should not crash when trying to call Kanon.
The problem is that it crash with "Shannon x Kanon", but not with "Lion x Shannon".

The only explanation would be that there is only ONE Yasu in this mix of world, even with a world created with multiple fragments, and probably more than only two (although it is never said).

Which cause quite a mess, because we are trying to explain it with our logic, when you can not apply this logic for "superposed worlds".

Another possibility would be that Kanon is not "an human" in the same meaning as Lion. Lion have his own life. Kanon have his own life for the red, but not for this. Damn.

If we says that " other experiences = allowed to exist", then Lion is a different person. But Kanon also should. Even if he is in the "Shannon timeline", he is still supposed to "exist".

Also, because of this the chapel looks more like a sub-meta-world than a real world, anyway, so saying that "there is only one body for the two of them" doesn't really work...
Yasu and Lion also share a body in the beginning.

I understand how you are thinking, but for me there is still something that doesn't pile up.

>>6666754
George is fat

Nothing new

>>6666769
>Wait, excuses matter in plotting murders?
...
To put simply.
Yasu is crazy.
And no, she is not, not crazy because of any DID, she is still crazy, and she has no good reason for plotting peoples' deaths.

>>6666754
Yes. Here, have this envelope. It's empty, just like Battler's love for you. So forget about him and become my lover.

>>6666789
what's a good reason for plotting people's deaths?

>>6666779
>The problem is that it crash with "Shannon x Kanon", but not with "Lion x Shannon".
Because, the Shannon and Kanon employed in that fragment was of the same fragment, wheras Lion was from another one. That's why.

Otherwise it could just as well had been Shannon, Shannon, Shannon, and Shannon and Shannon not being able to meet due to being of the same fragment wheras Shannon and Shannon would be able to as they would be of different fragments.

>>6666800
There aren't any. Doesn't mean I can't think she's awesome.

>>6666800
>what's a good reason for plotting people's deaths?
A motive with any merit to it.

Granted, murder is never justified.
But I bet you know what I mean.

Im always lost with you /jp/ when your talking about Umineko, one question, to fully understand yasu, i have to read all of ep7? im only at the beginning. you guys better not be just predicting all this yasu stuff.

>>6666819
Ofcourse you have to read it all. Its a mystery novel after all.

>>6666814
>But I bet you know what I mean.
No I don't, because as you said,

Murder is never justified.

Yasu is shit tier, unless you like crazy murderers.

And some of you do! Good for you! But for the rest of you, oh boy...

>>6666566
Wow, never saw it like that. So methaporically, passing on the love of Battler is actually somewhat normal and healthy

And solving the epitaph probably undid this because the fantasy world turned real (she was Beatrice all along)

>>6666807
I know, hence the "only one yasu".
But it seems pretty stupid and act with a superposed world in the same way we are acting in a a "real world".

I understand Shannontrice, but I just don't understand how Shkanon could exist when Erika saw both of them in one room during EP5. However, I don't see how it couldn't considering EP6. Explain, someone?

>>6666566
>>6666843

I like this explanation, too.

I wouldn't say Yasu is "normal," but I don't think she has DID, either.

>>6666566
>When Yasu gives up on Battler, she does it by rendering her love for him as an unobtainable fantasy, aka transferring it to "Beatrice"
You mean when Shannon gives up on Battler, and transfer love to Yasu/Beatrice.

>>6666859
Not narrated by her in ep5.
And apparently, people are thinking that she is too much of a retard to understand that someone "not existing" is maybe A LITTLE strange in a mystery novel.
Don't ask me. Seriously. Usually, you'll get " Erika don't care" or anything like this.

Actually, ep6 is explainable without Shkannon. It's in ep7 that it becomes A LOT more annoying.

>>6666831
>No I don't
I pity you, normal people would have got it.

But let me guide you through.
Murder is bad, this doesn't change no matter the motive.
People can however kill people over silly things.
While no motive can make a murder a "good murder", one can have an understandable motive.

In fiction, where people try to write good stories and portray good characters, silly things usually don't cut it.
So in fiction, killing someone because of something stupid, is bad.
Killing someone because of something understandable that might have driven people to kill people in real life, is good, as far as fiction goes.
But murder is bad, but in this sense the motive can be of good or bad quality in terms of how it works in a story, that is, fiction.

It just get to me that most of you guys really have no reading comprehension at all.
Seriously

>>6666872
>Actually, ep6 is explainable without Shkannon. It's in ep7 that it becomes A LOT more annoying.

...how?

I see no other explanation. Have you found one?

>>6666882
Punctuation is for fags.

>>6666882
No wonder, most of us doesnt read it for the plot.

>>6666882
oh look, it's these words again.
Every time I see them, it is when people don't agree with others but one side don't have any argument.

>>6666895
Only time I used these words was when you had retards who kept saying that there was no way ShKanontrice would happen and that Umineko took place in a multiverse.
Funny how it turned out.

>>6666886
>google, archives, or whatever. old threads on animesuki are also good.
There is good ones and bad ones of course. Some of them are fat-fetched, but it is the case for Shkannontrice anyway, so.

>>6666886
Any other explanation is bound to be more improbably than the personality dying thing.

>>6666886
Any other explanation is bound to be more improbable than the personality dying thing.

>>6666898
So you say. Anyway, it is still a retarded answer.
"NAH YOU DON'T AGREE WITH ME YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE READING"

Ever heard of multiple interpretations? The thing umineko is ALL about?
I was thinking I I would find this kind of reflections anything but here.
Or why the umineko fanbase is disastrous.

remember in ep2 or ep3 when everybody was doing a test and maria got kinzo? did they ever show what test she had or if she won?

>>6666902
I was kind of hoping you'd give me one yourself.

>>6666873
So...what is and isn't stupid?

>>6666919
There is no more multiple interpretations, the truth was shown really really clearly.
Stop being autistic and accept reality.

How do you guys explain everybody seeing the golden butterfly's and not seeing yasu in ep1?

>>6666917
I will not enter into this debate again, but no Shkannontrice being confirmed or not, no. And this have been said again, and again, just go on and check. Of course, if you're not objective, even something correct will look like "worse than personality dying (which is the most irrealistic thing ever)".
I'm okay with and without Shkannontrice, so I will not go in a flamewar for something which is one year-old.

Now, think what you want, I'm not here in order to force my viewpoint on you, contrary to others people. Haem.

>>6666920

I'm curious about this, too.

>>6666843
>And solving the epitaph probably undid this because the fantasy world turned real (she was Beatrice all along)
Yes, exactly. How would you feel if you're a fourteen year old kid that likes to pretend you're a princess. Just for fun. And then all of a sudden it turns out that you are. And not just ANY random princess, but the exact one you pretended to be all along.

You're already reeling from that and then ANOTHER dream you had came true in the exact situation you told yourself it would.

Also, you're the product of incest and have a fucked up body.

I think most people would go at least a little bit crazy under these circumstances, because it's not a matter of you actually thinking you're a witch, it's the fact that these impossible things keep on happening to you just when you think you've got a handle on everything.

As far as Battler and George goes, that's the difference between "I love this person" and "this person loves me". Do you take the chance on the person you love or do you go for the sure thing and settle?

Will is fucking awesome. That's pretty much what I took from this episode.

>>6666920
You are talking about ep4?
She won, IIRC.

First, there is. Or rather, there it is rather something derivative from Shkannontrice, but different nevertheless. But I'm okay, Most of the other -trice are out.
Second, We are talking about ep6 here. Before ep7 was out.

I actually came up with a "Magical/Delusional DID" theory (though I wasn't the one who called it that first) way back in early January that seems, in its basic form, though maybe not detail-wise, to somewhat fit what Yasu did with Shannon and Kanon. To put it in terms of what we have from Episode 7: Just like Maria created Sakutarou as her "furniture", so did Yasu/"Beatrice" create Shannon and Kanon. The difference is, Maria used a stuffed lion as the physical representation of Sakutarou, while Yasu used his/her own body.

>>6666920
this, we should figure out this plot hole instead of fighting.
also this
>>6666935

>>6666936
>which is the most irrealistic thing ever
why?

First, there is. Or rather, it is things "derivatived" from Shkannontrice, but different nevertheless. But I'm okay, Most of the other -trice are out right now.
Second, We are talking about ep6 here. Before ep7 was out.

>>6666950
maybe but they never showed you what she did. weird if you ask me.

>>6666935
That's anime-only stuff. At the very end of Episode 1 in the VN, Battler + Jessica + George confront a figure that Maria runs up and hugs/stands beside, a figure wearing the dress of and looking exactly like the Beatrice of the painting.

>>6666920
same test as everyone
and she probably answered the same thing as Kinzo, with the same reasoning too

>>6666956
Because it is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE in real life? (Yes, even about real DID.)
And also, it doesn't matter, but , because dying is something which have a meaning. It is not only "Okay, I disappear now lol." These are different things.
My chair isn't dying if I break it, sorry.

>>6666965
I never watched the anime, i don't remember that hugging part..

>>6666975
But Sakutarou "died" when Rosa ripped the head off of the lion plushie.

>>6666975
>>6666988
Anybody got the discussion between Featherine and Ange about what is required for furniture to exist?

>>6666975
>Because it is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE in real life?
How do you know?

>>6666991
*I think it might be relevant here.

>>6666926
As explained.
As far as fiction goes.
Things people wouldn't murder people over.
And things people would murder people over.

And what what people would do, and then what is stupid is of course subjective, so no one can answer such a question with certainty, but generally, something stupid is something against the norm.
Most people wouldn't kill someone for taking the last candybar. Doing so would be considered stupid.
Killing someone in self defence for instance, is however something people actually do from time to time, no matter it being wrong to kill.

>>6666988
the only red truth was about not being able to revive sakutarou, IIRC. And reviving something which doesn't exist, and then can't die, is rather hard.

how about we talk about the plot holes not explianed /haven't been brought up ever again from eps 1-4?

>>6667009
Name some?

>>6667009
Throw 'em out there boy.

>>6666992
Because it is how psychology works. Personnalities don't die.
And if you are going to say "but maybe, we don't know", like with a devil's proof, okay, then maybe witches and dragons also exist. Or there was a problem with the gravity on the island and the culprit was able to fly on the next island.. Who knows?

>>6666997
>something stupid is something against the norm.
Most of the normal motives, like for money, are pretty stupid if you ask me.

>>6667009
I say Ange. NEVER here in ANY story, not even in the alternate rokkenjima, and I don't remember anything about someone saying that Ange will not be here before the conference. So Yasu must be REALLY quick at writing.

Re: Shkannontrice:

There's now a fiction theory that Shannon and Kanon are separate people within the game boards, but they were originally just made-up characters injected by Yasu to fill out the cast (furniture = props), and neither of them really existed in any form on the real Rokkenjima. They started gaining character development across stories, so they had the opportunity to become fully fleshed-out "humans" from the perspective of observers outside the catbox who didn't know any better.

However, since it became known outside the catbox that only 17 people were really present, there was only one spot for a furniture character to be accepted as a human. The love duel was about deciding which of the three candidates was more convincing as a real person, and Shannon won because she'd had the most development.

So... Shannon went batshit crazy and killed everyone simply because Battler forgot that he flirted with her back when they were both 10?

Seriously?

what where the random numbers about on the door? i forgot.

>>6667049
Memorized; 07151129, digital root 8
Fuck, not again.

>>6667049
Credit-card pin-code.

>>6667056
so what are they about?

>>6667033
You assume that Ange was really sick. Leaving her off the island was pretty clearly some kind of ploy. Maybe the Sumaderas used her to 'motivate' Kyrie into killing the others. Hated her daughter? Ange was just a way to bond her husband to her? Hmm...

After Eva shot her, and told Kyrie that she'd shut the truth inside the cat box, Kyrie smiled and tried to say something. I wonder what?

>>6667056
Oh good, I'm not the only one who reflexively does that now.

>>6667041
I've heard about it, and I like it a lot.
It is not exactly what I think, which is rather based on Bern's letter and le ??? of the ep 6, but it still make sense and, also, it have a really strong link with the fiction theory and everything about fictional characters, all of it.
And from everything we saw in ep6 and Ryu's interview, Ryukishi really love this.

>>6667066
>1
;_;

>>6667041
I've heard about it, and I like it a lot.
It is not exactly what I think, which is rather based on Bern's letter and the ??? of the ep 6, but it still make sense and, also, it have a really strong link with the fiction theory and everything about fictional characters, all of it.
And from everything we saw in ep6 and Ryu's interview, Ryukishi really love this.

Also, you're really summing it up, it is a lot more complicated and interresting with details.

>>6666566
Good explanation, anon. Thanks.

I love and sympathize with Yasu whether she was really planning to commit murder or not, though.

>>6667060
It fills me with glee to think that Ryu deliberately set up a false dichotomy between Shkannontrice and Fictional Erika to troll everyone when they were actually both true.

>>6667065
I also think so, even more with Kyrie in the tea party of ep7. Even if she isn't the murderer on rokkenjima-prime, her becoming batshit insane could be something Ryukishi did in order to make us think about her implication in the whole thing.
And this world peace thing doesn't help.
Apparently, Juuza was supposed to kill Kasumi, according to episode 6, and to silence Ange afterward, IIRC.

>>6667065
It is weird that Yasu was able to predict this shit in her message bottles, too, since they say Ange only got sick the day before the conference.

ok, talking about plot holes, will battlers real mom come into play? maybe she never died and is on the island for revenge? she has to be used at least a bit in ep8... also i think where forgetting wtf is happening OUTSIDE of the island during anges time, is the Grey haired guy(forgot name) gonna betray her, how did she see Bern in the first place? without magic? what is going to happen next in anges quest?

>>6667110
Not to mention the fact that Ange and Maria are on bad terms, just like Ange and Beato. So Maria saying it to Yasu seems unlikely.

So, wait. If Yasu really had all the guns stockpiled in the gold room for the purposes of shooting everyone, how the fuck did the different adults manage to get a hold of the guns in the question arcs? How did Natsuhi and Rosa get their respective guns in 1 and 2? Well, Rosa was obviously in on something, but Natsuhi? And how did the adults get a hold of all the guns before Eva even found the gold in 3?

>>6667115

I would really like to see an appearance by Asumu, too. Whether it be a flashback or having her actually be alive. (I doubt the latter would actually happen, though.)

>>6667120
Well, they said that they were in Kinzos study, but I dont think anyone can confirm that actually.

>>6667110
Can't she write the bottle letters afterwords?

I mean, Kyrie missed 2 shots on Eva at pointblank, I wouldn't be surprised if she missed her shot on Yasu too. After everyone left, she had the whole day to write bottle letters.

how did George fly out the fucking window did he really have a jet pack?

>>6667146
Well, considering the episodes still take months for Ryukishi to write via computer instead of hand, that's still kinda...

>>6667150
The thick layer of lard cushioned his fall, of course.

>>6667120
They solved the epitaph, obviously. But after the initial massacre that took place, they all dealt with the aftermath in different ways. Remember how Natsuhi kept insisting the gold was a myth, even though Krauss SHOWED HER A FUCKING INGOT? Rosa obviously was lying to cover for the servants, but at the same time she didn't trust them. etc etc

>>6667120
The question arcs are from her tale, where she is the culprit.

Yasu stockpiling the guns in the gold room is the actual truth, where Kyrie is the culprit

>>6667138
Well. Rosa got it a very short while after she "met father" with Shannon and Genji... Which are both involved in ep7. Haem.

>>6667169
Shouldn't the premise of Yasu's supposed plan to be the same either way though?

>>6667169
>Yasu stockpiling the guns in the gold room is the actual truth, where Kyrie is the culprit

We don't know that for a fact--Bern didn't get to finish her red truth. If anything it's only part of what happened, after all, Will did say it was missing the heart.

>>6667167
It's pretty obvious that they solved the epitaph and were doing damage control. Beatrice becomes a helpful scapegoat to blame for the murders that happened when things went out of control originally. Then as the groups splintered more and more people were killed.

>>6667159
Not to mention the fact that she WANTS these bottles to exist. And by waiting she would be taking a risk. After all, even her can die at any moment (and will probably) or when the bomb will explode.

>>6667167
But Beatrice stops killing when the epitaph is solved?

>>6667169
That's only if you believe what was shown in the tea party was actually the "truth."

>>6667182
Even without this. Let's assume that Bern is saying the truth. Fine. This is a true story. We are looking at "true stories" since ep1, according to the red, so yeah. But it stays a game/story.

so im guessing yasu is as old as kinzos kids?

>>6667185
Also, even if she didn't die immediately, Yasu fell over bleeding from the mouth, so Kyrie obviously hit her somewhere regardless of if it was instantly fatal or not. Although the mental image of Yasu frantically writing the full message bottles while bleeding to death on the bed is sort of funny.

>>6667196
No, Yasu is the baby from 19 years ago that was mentioned in EP5.

>>6667196
wait im getting really confused, is yasu the child that natshui killed? or the one that rosa killed?

>>6667206
Maybe you should just read Episode 7?

>>6667201
Hey, it worked for Drosselmeyer.

>>6667206
Read EP7 more carefully.

>>6667206
The one Natsuhi killed. The one Rosa killed was Beatrice No2.

>>6667186
Who ever said Yasu was the sole culprit in the first 4 episodes? Wasn't this clearly fucking demonstrated in Episode 3? Put 2 and 2 together man. If the adults put their heads together they can solve the epitaph and find the gold in less than 2 hours.

Put it this way- maybe after the initial slaughter, if Yasu is still alive s/he helps the 'new head of the family' cover up the crimes and maybe even commits some as well.

>>6667196
(S)he isn't. Altough Battler being married to his mother could be funny.
>>6667201
with her blood. I totally want to see this. and sending it by mail afterwards.

>>6667182
>If anything it's only part of what happened
Wait, what are you trying to say here.

My point is that having guns already inside the gold room in the actual truth doesn't necessary mean that in the tales, the guns have to be in the gold room too.

>>6667214
That's why I was asking about the adults grabbing all of the guns BEFORE Eva solved the epitaph and found the gold.

>>6667214
Episodes 1 and 2 are her letters, when she is presenting herself as a scapegoat. About ep3, yeah.

>>6667217
What I'm trying to say is that the way things were presented was probably just to get Ange and Leon trolled, so Yasu, Kyrie, and Rudolf are probably not portrayed absolutely truthfully.

I'm not saying these things didn't happen, I'm saying Bern probably mucked things up a bit.

Why does everyone assume that the guns that the family had in the other episodes are the same guns that were in the gold room? I mean, yes, they're the exact same type and the exact same quantity, but we shouldn't totally discard that there could have been more in Kinzo's study (which is where they said they got them in the other episodes).

>>6667236
It wasnt Bern that presented it though. It was Featherine's conclusion of the real incident.

>>6667236
>Featherine
And you trust her interpretation to be absolutely true?

>>6667222

... Despite the fact that on the surface, Beatrice presents herself as the scapegoat, the REAL TRUTH is also hidden in those words as well. And Beatrice wanted someone to understand her. The first four episodes, particularly the first two, are a clever weaving of both the truth and lies. The clues to the epitaph, and the fact that it was solvable by the siblings if they worked together, are both clearly present. Hell, Battler and Erika solved it in a couple of hours and they were just 2 people. If 7 adults who knew Kinzo put their heads together, it's actually a cinch.

Look beyond the obvious and try to understand the truth behind the truth.

>>6667246
Didn't the dialogue actually imply that it was Eva-Beatrice's interpretation of events?

I think it's a bigger plothole if Yasu did write and sent the bottles beforehand, considering how those were meant to portray herself as a scapegoat for the world to see. There's simply no point in them if she is really going to kill the whole family.

>>6667281
Maybe she wanted to prevent someone in the outside world from knowing the truth?
Altough for me, torpedoes exploding "by accident" is nicer than murders.

>>6667281
Yasu suspected Sumadera shenanigans beforehand, probably.

you guys are fools, im gonna laugh when its magic or small bombs and then you see Ryukishi with his troll face on. well besides that i still feel like 34 is the mastermind behind everything, theres just this creepy feeling about her. remmber when she had that small talk with ange? i forgot what she has though.

>>6667319
what she said*

I still don't like Umineko.

You guys will never Erika anymore in this series ever again.;_;

>>6667337
Who is Erika?

>>6667337
Good.

>>6667337
Fucking mary sue self-inserts from fanfiction writers. There was never and never will be a character like her ever in Umineko.

>>6667337
I will. I want my epic Battler x Will x Erika (and also Ange somewhere) against Asskicked!Bern, on a new awesome music by zts.

>>6666795
....

What if George just pocketed her invitation?

I dunno, after reading episode 7 I really hope there's more to it. Shkanontrice deciding that because Battler gonna Bat EVERYBODY MUST GO is a real boring story.

Kyrie finding out the solution to the epitaph in every world and deciding to murder everybody because of it is a much more interesting one.

And yes, I'm presenting a possible theory because I don't think it's impossible and because I want to see it happen.

>>6667337
was there really any point to Erika? i feel like it was filler for some reason.

>>6667337
She'll be back in the next episode, most likely the epilogue. Calling it.

>>6667347
Kyrie is the murderer in Lion's world, too, so there might be something there. Good luck?

>>6667337
Thank god for small favors.

>>6667348
I think she was supposed to be "us" trying to present heartless theories to basically explain the story.

I mean, I've been getting this vibe that Ryuukishi is just MAD disappointed in us for not completely solving the mystery by episode 4.

>>6667348
No. She had a vague thematic purpose in Episode 5 as a loveless parody of a mystery detective, but she was mostly filler. I didn't even mind her after Episode 6, but after Episode 7 and knowing the full scope of things, goddamn she was pointless and only served to drag Bern down as a villain.

>>6667337
<Good>
it better stay that way.

>>6667349
I hope she can come back too.

>>6667358
He cant blame us, we barely stood a chance against the epitaph being a japanese wordplay.

>>6667366
To be fair, a Japanese guy COULD make the same argument about "Quadrillion" I mean, it's the basis of the entire second half of the riddle.

If he did, he'd be a dick though. We have 26, they have a quadrillion.

Wait, so what is the real bullshit? Did young Kinzo proposed to steal Italians' gold or not? Pic related. If so then it means people can shit over Will's detective authority all they want when interrogated.

>>6667348
She was a parody of detectives in detective fiction mysteries.

>>6667408
It has been theorized earlier. The detectives authority makes the target tell the truth. What Kinzo told Will was his truth about what happened.

>>6667416
Fucking everybody on this island is some sort of psychotic narcissist that DEMANDS that reality comply with their superiority complex.

For FUCK sake.

Umineko's gonna end because everyone's "truth" is everybody dying because Gohda overcooked the spaghetti or some nonsense and seventeen years later: "Oh yes, I remember that time well, there was a bomb, you see, and thirteen people were brutally murdered".

It is NOT the detective authority.
It is the spectator authority ( I don't remember how they called it in the Witch-hunt translation.)
We don't exactly know what it does. But because of the name, (theartergoing, isn't it?) and the fact that it is "more entertaining", according to Bern, it probably show everything, but the truth. It must have soething to do with "forcing someone to talk".

>>6667420
False, it was a cake Beato was trying to cook for valentine's day. It exploded.

>>6667430
That sounds more plausible.

The Ushiromiyas are god damn bullshit artists.

>>6667420
They all chillan on the moon resort

why did rosa and natshui never become a witchs?

>>6667444
Even Bice and a TIPS said it. It must be in the gene.

>>6667456
Rosa's the Black Witch and Natsuhi pretended she was friends with a witch, close enough.

The murder happens regardless of Yasu's wish.

The murder happens because of the epitaph.

Most of the time, the murder/fake dying happens following the literal pattern of epitaph.

The murderer/pretenders did it to create red herring. Blaming the closed room on the witches.

>>6667420
>>6667430

>>6667473
>"Fuck, I'm so bad at this"

Who actually deserves to fuck up Bern the most at this point anyway? Battler? Beato? Erika? Will? Lion? Ange?

>>6667503
Kinzo.

Oh, you said "deserve"? I thought you meant "do you want to see".

>>6667503
All of them at once, like in ep5.
This will be beautiful.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/UminekoNoNakuKoroNi
>Shannon
>She is heavily implied to be both Kanon and Yasu.
>heavily implied

What the fuck is wrong with these people? I know, I know,
>tvtropes

But still.

6667512
"You gonna get DESIRED"

>>6667521
Because animefags.

>>6667521
And? It's still better that saying it without being sure of it.
Still better than the theories in the WMG.

>>6667503

Deserves to? Beato by far. Even her corpse has been abused by Bern.

>>6667516
I basically want to see every possible cast member counter-troll Bern, complete with glorious troll face.

>>6667525
Not even close

I want to see Bern getting trolled by Krauss.

>>6667521
What else would she be?
She isn't said to be Kanon and Yasu, and she's certainly not not implied.

so what is the biggest point of 34 nowadays? do you think she will be used a bit more, i think she was introduced for a another when they cry, i mean why even make her randomly go crazy and what not.

>>6667548
Not, he means that it is not "not implied", it is clear.
To me, it is only implied.
It's never said clearly, so it's only implied. no matter how clear it is. (It's also why Ryukishi could still make an asspull somewhere if he wanted, even if he will not do it).

>>6667552
""save"" Bern in ep8. I mean, she will allow her to be a niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice giiiiirl again.

>>6667503
inb4 Will and Lion ranting about THE HEART and MAKING MIRACLES and BEATING FATE reminds bern of Higurashi and she has a mental breakdown

>>6667559
>To me, it is only implied.

Kanon is a real grey area so I'll give you that.

But I don't see how anyone can deny that Yasu = Shannon.

There might've been a real Shannon somewhere along the line that Yasu's Shannon was based on, but the Shannon that fell in love with Battler and Yasu are the same person. Whether or not Yasu/Shannon has multiple personalities or is only slightly crazy is up for discussion, though.

>>6667572
And then Lambda suddenly appears and goes full destruction mode because she will never forgive anyone who causes Bern to cry.

>>6667585
...She did say that to Battler, didn't she.

The REAL mastrmind is either:
a) George
b) Nanjo and Genji. Probably just Genji.

Yashkanontrice is just a tool that decides to resist in some games.

>>6667559
Ryukishi has said that he won't be giving the answers on a silver platter in Umineko. At best, he's only going to make it really obvious. That way you still have to think on your own to get the answer.

It's not implied, it is the answer, but if you're expecting him to directly say it, then it's not going to happen.

>>6667585
im telling you man, Lambda is only hiding her power level for max trolling later on, think of nappa as bern and Lambda as vegeta, nappa this big strong prick whos always pushing people around until he gets his ass kicked and then this short small man goes mega mode.

>>6667585
>>6667585
>>6667585

>>6667594
as i always say, nanjo is the choice that makes the most sense, he a fucking doctor, he should be really smart enough to pull off this shit. he also gets the least scenes out of everybody.

>>6667540
inb4 Lambda reveals that Featherine is a piece she created to play games with and she's been trolling Bern since the end of Higurashi.

>>6667581
Still, to me, even Shannon is only implied, and it will never be otherwise, given how Umineko is supposed to work.
I understand what you mean, but to me, the opposite of implied is something down in black and white.
Which is not the case with Yasu/Shannon, there is even a "false Shannon" messing with your head if you don't use your brain a little.
It is still clear and reall easy to understand, I'm okay on this point, but it is still "implied" for me. It's not about denying it, it's the fact that a lot of people would not understand what the fuck is happening, instead of understanding that Yasu = Shannon. Only a difference of definition, I guess.

>>6667599
Exactly what I said, yeah.
And that's why to me, it is pretty normal that Yasushkannontrice is only "implied"

>>6667601
To me, Lambda is more of a nice girl than Bern, so I don't really think that she will be an opponent in the last game. However, she will probably be here. There is still a lot of shit about the meta-world which are left unanswered/not sure.

>>6667609
Nanjo being a culprit makes a lot of stuff easier.

Every single murder where a body is dead and Nanjo "inspects" the body is not a closed room if Nanjo slips the key in later.

And there's a BIG reason to think this is happening:
Think back to how Yasu hid the key in that maid's locker. Any guesses to how it was done? She took the key off her own chain, swapped her keyless chain with the one that maid tossed on the bed, then when the locker was opened she "finds" the key in the locker. This is the same trick Nanjo was doing. Thematically it fits, especially since the trick isn't explained.

Emir Parkreiner is the culprit.

Look,he is the cleaner.He feels no remorse when seeing a dead body.To him it's merely cold white flesh.

>>6667632
To put it super nerd terms.

Lambda is Chaotic Neutral.
Bern is Neutral Evil

Speaking of Lambda...

"Are you guys... really real?"

>>6667709
;_;

>>6667709
yeah, the part where she goes crazy was the biggest freaky part of this series, its most likely gonna start off next when they cry, but it will be back to horror, but the way she was talking sounded like fucking "silent hill" horror.

>>6667709
There's a fun sequel opportunity. We can have some of the Umineko cast help poor crazy Lambda crack the logic error that she's still trapped in.

>>6667709
>>6667729
>>6667738
And that where I decided she was my waifu

>>6667738
>>6667741
>>6667709
I wonder what year it will take place in, maybe the 1800s on a ghost ship or something or maybe something with aliens.

Guys. I just realized something.

There's likely a source for at least one fake corpse.

Erika

>>6667757
"When the pumpkins cry"?

>>6667766
Wouldn't she be a bit too short? Maybe she could be a replacement for Maria, but that's about it.

>>6667749
fffffffffffffffffffffffff i never read this part.i mean i played EP6 halfway then i skipped to EP7 when the translation comes out.tell me, which chapter is this?

christ, George is such an asshole

never raged so hard in my life

>>6667749
As determined in an earlier thread, the ultimate dick move at that point would be to say "Nope, we're just figments of your imagination!" and laugh at her.

This episode is making me quite sad. :(

>>6667749
look at battlers face in the very first shot of him.

EP8 seriously needs more Lambda
EP7 was dissapointed. They dindn't even put her profile

>>6667790
the fuck, why would you do that?

>>6667810
It gets worse.

>>6667503

She will be slain for the good of everyone and everyone in the future that she will hurt.

She wants to be evil to forget the shit that her master put her through? Then let the pain end permanently.

Lambda is really awesome but too bad she doesn't get that much screentime

>>6667810
I'm reaaally waiting to see how Battler explains her as "not a bad person"

honestly I think Ange torching her with the Golden Truth is the best way for Bern to go down

I thought Lambda was going to GM Episode 8.

>>6667843
Bern is doing it. They said so in the secret tea party.

>>6667810
And you've only scratched the surface of the OH GOD WHY ;_; of the Tea Party. Enjoy.

>>6667848
I was unhappy.

I was completely expecting Battler's story to be episode 8.

Anyone remember the beginning? It basically confirmed that Shannon didn't commit any crimes

>>6667829

I dunno... it's pretty difficult to squick me out, and the murders in the previous episodes didn't bother me, but it seems like R07 really went out of his way to make Kyrie and Rudolf evil as fuck.

Eva. ;_;

I sort of lol'd.

I seriously doubt Bern will go down.

Another "good always wins in the end" ending will be a terrible way to end this trollfest of a series.

>>6667862
He was trying to tell us that just because there's someone nobody knows about named "Beatrice" in an island where someone mysterious and calling themselves "Beatrice" is running around killifying everyone, doesn't mean Beatrice is doing it. It also shows how very possible it is for Beatrice to actually DIE.

On that note, what's left for Ryu to cover in episode 8? It seems that this little fiasco of a tea party just showed that NOBODY GIVES A SHIT ABOUT ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS ON THE ISLAND. It's inside the cat box, and since the island goes TNT anyway, the closed room murders don't even NEED an explanation.

Who is even supposed to fight Bern now and why? Game ended. EP8 will just explain everything left unexplained.

>>6667893
Erika. Ep 8 will have her return with her fighting for the fantasy side as a final fuck you to Bern.

so i rage quit while reading ep 5 because i found it to be so bad, but reinstalled ep 7 again

should i finish ep5 (does it get better after the stupid trial shit) or skip on to ep 6

does ep 6 rely significantly on stuff that happens in the second half of ep 5?

(just putting this in the theories thread so i dont start a new thread for this shit)

THEY CAN'T JUST NOT KILL BERN

BITCH NEEDS TO DIE SO HARD

Lambdadelta. Bernkastel. Kravchenko.

ALL must die.

>>6667887
Ok, I laughed.

>>6667911
If you're that close to finishing 5, just finish it.

>>6667911
Just read the end of Ep 5.

>>6667887
now everythging around here makes sense.

>>6667924
oh the trial is close to the end? seemed only about half done to me but that was just a guess

>>6667913

>Lambchop

what? Lambda is actually pretty cool y'know

I haven't gotten to the end of 7 so I don't know if she does a 180 or something...

>>6667912
Bern is like those game stages where some invincible creature chases after you, and you can only win by making to the end of the stage.

>>6667931
I don't even remember if she appears in Ep 7. She may have had a cameo appearance, but most of it was Bern being Bern.

>>6667939yeah, 4 seconds in the ???.

>>6667885
well lets just hope everything wasn't for nothing with some lame ass ending and some how a shit storm ending will come out of no where. i believe in him, why would he waste all these years on this only to have a shitty ending? i think no matter how anti magic /jp/ is, it is what is going to make the ending HOLY SHITTT and is going to make way for the next when they cry, so far the meta world connects with all of his series so far , i feel that this vn was to just show you the meta world and later on bit by bit we will see how deep it is with his other works.

>>6667937

so the only way to kill Bern is to acquire her weakness?

ONWARDS TO HINAMIZAWA BATTLER

>>6667946
You know what I think?

I think someone completely unrelated to Beatrice is doing the killings in pretty much every episode.

Oh, and I think the fragment we are shown in the Tea Party is bullshit. Bern is trying to deceive us somehow.

>>6667947
WE ARE GOING TO GO BACK TO THE FUTURE, TO SAVE THE PAST.

>>6667947
I... I actually wouldn't mind the next When They Cry being a much more direct sequel to Umineko than Umineko was to Higurashi, keeping some of the meta subplots going while leaving the mystery of Rokkenjima behind.

>>6667966
It doesn't have any Heart. It explains what happened in Rokkenjima by logic and rationale. And what's more rational than a story woven entirely around basic human greed? It's like textbook neoclassical economics

>>6667984
Between the Witch's Senate, the heavenly inquisition, and the sea of fragments, he's certainly got enough material to work into a new series.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing an attempt to spin Erika's backstory and drowning into a proper mystery. She did fall off a boat under extremely bizarre circumstances.

>>6667997
DLANOR AND WILL: COPP BUDDIES
takemymoney.jpg

>>6667996
I don't know if you're agreeing or not, but there's plenty of real suspects that have motive.

George - Jealous asshole

Kyrie - Crazy as fuck

And plenty of characters that might have motives that were hinted at earlier but weren't covered in depth.

I want him to go back to horror and ditch the mystery all together, its been fun but i like how he does is horror more then his mystery. 34 could be a really good way to do a horror.

hmmm I've always thought that horror was the weakest aspect of When They Cry. The only real unsettling part was Lambda's freak out fest during 6

>>6668019

USO DA!

>>6668005
HE'S a hardworking, philandering businessman with a troubled past. SHE'S the demonic incarnation of sloth. Together, THEY FIGHT CRIME.

>>6668010
I was commenting on the >Oh, and I think the fragment we are shown in the Tea Party is bullshit. Bern is trying to deceive us somehow.

What she showed was Bern's solution, and might be the true, but it's stripped of motives or emotions.

>>6668012
Well, there's that manga he started this year, "Higanbana no Saku Yoru ni". It seems to be pretty much solid horror so far.

>>6668030
I dunno, I think Magical Chef Gohda (Or Magical Gohda Chef, depending on who you ask) would be way better.

>>6668019
well i just think its at least more interesting and more fun to read then his mystery. I usually get bored and stop reading for a bit and then go back in. when the creepy parts come up im like holy shit awesome time. the mood and the way its written is really good too.

>>6668019

lolwut? horror is what's good about his stuff.

The first two games had great horror. You take your average joe, throw him into a mansion murder mystery then have a supernatural entity take him to some weird realm in the Twilight Zone, threaten to torture his family for all eternity etc.

I was surprised that Battler wasn't more tired and scared.

>>6668037
>DAT GOHDA

>>6668032
Sweet.

Now we have to wonder WHY she went through all that. Was she just THAT pissed at Beato? And just decided to have massive Ange trolling on the side?

That doesn't make sense, she should just show the fragment where Lion DOES die. Her motive for having Ange there is pathetic. Why go through the hoops?

>>6668038

Agreed. I loved the parts in EP6 where Battler was trapped in the room.

You guys want her to die? Really?

I love her more than ever.

>>6668045
>Was she just THAT pissed at Beato?
Yep.

>>6668049
She had better ways to do it, that's my point. She gave her an out for no reason and put more effort into saying "so yeah by the way, this works on you too".

I call shenanigans.

Bern goes the extra mile to be a bitch?

nothing new here guys

remember when rena was trying to open the door with the chain? and in the vn its revealed to you that rena was stalking k1 as he was shopping with his mom in one of the tips? it was late at night and i had that feeling to turn around. I miss that about his works. i have to say ep 6 with bern and the cat was done well.

>>6668106

To me, a good horror game will scare you even in broad daylight.

And it did.

>>6668059
Don't underestimate the power of butthurt. Butthurt is probably the strongest thing in all of Umineko.

>>6668086
You're not really getting it.

If her goal was to "kill" Lion, then with the assumption that Lion DOES die in all fragments, she could have shown the entirety of a fragment in which she does die and there would be no arguments.

Instead she seemed focused on showing a bullshit heartless fragment that centered solely around Ange. Had she had a severe grudge against her, more power to her I guess. But it seemed like she was taking the option less suited to her needs. This contradicts an important point: we assumed she HAD better options. I think this can essentially make an argument that there aren't any.

Plus, we were given a few glimpses at "what actually happened" as shown here >>6667408

We don't know what the whole theatergoing privilege means, but clearly it isn't centered around seeing the truth. If this holds, then Bern really just decided to go about her revenge in the most roundabout and retarded way. It's not about her being a bitch, it's about how she's supposedly being cruel and DOESN'T take the option where she just demolishes everything she hates.

>>6668046

This. It was awesome.

If only some good studio could do Chiru anime...

>>6667810
That part made me so depressed. I ;_;'d at least 4 times today just thinking about it.

>>6668045
She wants to troll Lion too duh
Lion was the main dish, Ange was just the appetizer.

You don't eat both at the same time, you savour one first, then you savour the other.

>>6668150
What's more fun, revealing that they don't live right at the start, or showing what happens elsewhere, still letting the person have that hope that things are different for them... and then showing them that NOPE, THINGS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME FOR YOU, TOO! ahaha.wav

I agree about R07 being better at horror/creepiness than mystery. Hell I think the best scene in 7 was when Will asked shannon to bring kanon and she BSODed.

>>6668140
> Butthurt is probably the strongest thing in all of Umineko.
Yeah. There's nothing more dangerous than a butthurt witch.

>>6668173
>Will asked shannon to bring kanon and she BSODed

I laughed.

>>6668173
My favorite was the VIP room scene with Jessica. That creeped me out.

>>6668186
...Or a butthurt bitch.

>>6668191
yes that too! it complete slipped my mind till you just mentioned it.
Creepy as hell.

was the disappearing doll ever explained?

>>6668191
creeped me out the most, but that was because I was alone in the dark, and that always makes stuff more spooky. My favorite scene in Ep 7 has to be >>6668173 , though.

I took it as an example of the "promised reaper lowers the curtains on the tale regardless of the witch's will."

Whether the epitaph is solved, no matter what, the murders will happen.

>>6668204
I don't think so, but it was probably just Yasu trolling Jessica. I think the explanation for that scene were the exact reasons that Jessica thought couldn't possibly be true. I mean like someone hiding under the bed for hours, etc. Wouldn't put it past Yasu

>>6668204
> was the disappearing doll ever explained?
Someone was hiding in the room and took the doll out when the electricity was turned off.

>>6668222
>Wouldn't put it past Yasu
Must be genetic.

>>6668222
Man that girl has ISSUES.

>>6668222
>WOULDN'T PUT IT PAST KINZO
Well Yasu is Kinzo's kid.

>>6668222
than who tripped the breaker to turn off the power?
Like jessica was saying, it would take more than one person.

Did yasu already solve the epitaph at that point and could ask other servants to help her?

>>6668241
Kumasawa. They were buddies already.

>>6668239
...And grandkid.

>>6668241
Most likely, yeah. You DO remember Notes From A Certain Cook, right?

>>6668241
I just assumed that some of the other servants were helping Yasu.

>>6668257
And since Shannon and Gohda (I think?) were the ones who told her about it and Jessica seemed so interested in the VIP room rumor, it isn't too far fetched too assume they were working together to scare her. Man, what assholes.

>>6668257
Ok that makes sense. I just remembered that the reason jessica went there in the first place was because of a fight with maria. which means that yasu is already the head and can ask genji and the others for help

>>6668268
Whoops, meant to*

>>6668252
So was that just a prank to scare Jessica, or was Maria really calling in the dead of the night to talk to Beatrice? And I think the doll and offerings were there before Yasu solved the epitaph. Seem to remember a brief reference to them at some point earlier.

>>6668268
Shannon, Kanon and Gohda were not exactly friendly, according to ep1

>>6668280

Doll was there because of the maid who yasu trolled by stealing a single key off her ring.

After she freaked out, she started putting offerings in that room for beatrice or something like that if I remember correctly

>>6668288
I almost forgot about that. I guess it was probably Genji or Kumasawa, then.

>>6668293
genji or kuma makes more sense since yasu is the head at that point and can ask them for almost anything

anyone else starting to really like little prankster yasu?
haha

>>6668280
Well Maria was left home alone at night quite often apparently, so it isn't really that far-fetched to say she'd call Beatrice then.

>>6668280
She just recorded Maria's voice, had Kumasawa played it on the telephone call, and Genji cut cables, then she ran out.

>>6668311
Kind of what I thought. If Beatrice was talking to Maria between visits, she's probably better informed of the goings on within the family than we give her credit for. Since Maria is usually present when Rosa meets her siblings, she's probably got quite a bit of info to pass along.

Things like Ange catching ill and the plan to blackmail Krauss were probably passed along in this way.

>>6668351
If there's one thing the parents do right, it's trying to keep their kids out of the money mess. Doesn't always work, but hey. Because of that, I don't think Maria would be able to tell Yasu about the plan to blackmail Krauss. Not that she wouldn't be able to figure it out on her own, but I somehow doubt Maria is her source on that.

Thread's autosaging. Move to a new one?

>>6668363
when was it said or implied that yasu had knowledge of the plan? I can't remember it ever being said

>>6668351
>>Ange catching ill

No. Read the thread, and the novel again.

>>6668363
I think a lot of that sort of stuff was probably done by Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa. They all swore allegiance to Yasu, Genji heavily so.

>>6668363
I suppose. But even the news that the other 3 siblings are meeting someplace without Krauss would probably be enough to let her know something was up.

Well, it's a minor point either way. Maybe it was just a recording, but I kind of suspect that even if it was a recording that particular night, Maria really was calling Beatrice late at night and telling her about various things.

>>6668374
Move to this thread I guess.