/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Welp. Time to hide the fucking horrible thread.

>No one has a good reason to kill. Everyone's problems could be solved if they worked together. Yasu's motives make the least sense of all.

This would be the problem. In case you haven't noticed, the adults have a lot of horrific baggage and old wounds inflicted on each other. Eva's problem was equal parts not wanting to give into Krauss because of their history as anything else.

>Of course it seems like the other servants could be in on it, but I refuse to believe they could successfully hide the fact from Natsuhi and Krauss, who have no reason to go along with it.

Why not? Why would Natsuhi and Krauss care? Genji is the one in charge of running the servant activities.

>The ambiguous gender thing is a cheap shot at the reader and you're not going to convince me otherwise.

No point discussing it then.

>>6649588
>I refuse to believe they could successfully hide the fact from Natsuhi and Krauss,

Really?

Natsuhi and Krauss don't really care about the kid servants as long as they get work done, they let Genji handle the whole thing.

>>6649602
>PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THINGS I DONT LIKE! WHAAAAAAHHHH!

>>6649497
If Yasu solved the epitaph, then Yasu is the new head. Maybe Yasu entered the meeting in Episode 4, and it was explained by the older servants that Yasu was in fact the head of the family, the new 'Kinzo'. Yasu goes on to explain that s/he doesn't want the headship, and says that it will be decided by a test instead. Kinzo did in fact leave a will stating the epitaph would determine the successor, and Yasu can clearly demonstrate that s/he has solved it.

But Yasu doesn't want to pass on the headship with the Epitaph, s/he just wants to pass it to one of the cousins after testing their worth. Gohda and Kumasawa are sent to the guesthouse to tell a horror story to the cousins, they get locked in the storage shed, and then Jessica gets called out to the mansion.

The problem here is that, according to Episode 7, the minute Yasu shows that s/he can solve the epitaph and open the path to the gold, the same shit happens as in every game- everyone goes insane. But without overwhelming proof, none of the siblings would accept that Shkannon was in fact their fifth sibling, a half... something, or that s/he had succeeded the family headship in accordance to Kinzo's wishes.

And as the Tea Party in 7 showed us, even THAT won't stop a massacre. So 'everyone recognizing Kinzo' seems like a farce from the start.

So I'm back to my old theory- Shkannon dumped Kinzo's rotten corpse in the dining room, and then pulled out a gun and started firing. ... But. Kinzo's old Winchesters only hold 4 slugs, with 1 more in the chamber... BAHH. Did Shkannon kill 5 people, reload or change guns, and kill 1 more? I have a hard time believing wimpy little Kanon, who stuggles with a bag of fertilizer, can whip out a rifle and gun down 6 people with some pretty magnificent shooting.

>>6649611
I really don't think so. I think there is a reason Will got vague to the point of hilarity when "solving" Episode 4, and it was revealed in the fact that the setup for EP4 was exactly the same as Kyrie's massacre.

So yeah, do you guys think that Battler's detective games follow the same rules as Erika's ('if the detective recognizes the victim as dead they are dead. The detective would not mistake that blah blah blah' or however it went)?

>>6649604
>This would be the problem. In case you haven't noticed, the adults have a lot of horrific baggage and old wounds inflicted on each other. Eva's problem was equal parts not wanting to give into Krauss because of their history as anything else.
Which still feels like a cop-out to me. I would've rather had an interesting motivation than "lol crazy bitch." I also find it inconsistent with the character implied by episode 3, but that could be my own problem with interpretation.

As for Natsuhi and Krauss, why would they care? I think I would care if I had a crazy servant who might I dunno DO CRAZY THINGS LIKE SET UP BOMBS AND HIDE GOLD in my house. It's not like they don't have other servants to choose from. If they had one that was problematic, they'd cut it loose.

>>6649608
That's not the point. The point is that they basically worked in the household for YEARS and YEARS. Somewhere in there they would notice.

>>6649612
But it's not like all the drama was necessary. And trusting Gohda and Kumasawa to tell the story as intended, and not tell the truth and make a plan to escape or fight back, is a stretch. Granted they are probably the most cowardly of the people on the island, but after seeing a bloodbath in the dining room, trusting the perpetrator to keep their word on anything else is just absurd. And anyway, Battler met Beatrice in that game. He spoke to her on the phone right after Kyrie 'died'.

Calling Episode 7s Tea Party a solution to Episode 4 is somewhat naive. A similar method may have been used, but the mentality of the killers is different.

>>6649608
>PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THINGS I DONT LIKE! WHAAAAAAHHHH!
Average newfag Umineko fan straight from /a/

>>6649631
>Which still feels like a cop-out to me. I would've rather had an interesting motivation than "lol crazy bitch." I also find it inconsistent with the character implied by episode 3, but that could be my own problem with interpretation.

It's not "lol crazy bitch", though. It's motivation that was built. The Ushiromiyas are messed up and have messed up, complicated relationships that keeps them from just setting their problems aside and "working together." I think it makes them more interesting characters. If you haven't actually read the episodes, though, I can see how the spoilers would sound ridiculous to you.

>As for Natsuhi and Krauss, why would they care? I think I would care if I had a crazy servant who might I dunno DO CRAZY THINGS LIKE SET UP BOMBS AND HIDE GOLD in my house. It's not like they don't have other servants to choose from. If they had one that was problematic, they'd cut it loose.

No, why would they care enough to pay enough attention to Shannon and Kanon to notice or think twice? Especially when you have Genji there to do things like make sure they're almost never scheduled on the same days? And Kumasawa who is more than happy to chat up about how she hangs out with both Shannon and Kanon at the same time? Natsuhi and Krauss don't have any deep connection to the servants to begin with. They see it mostly as Kinzo's business, run by Genji. Natsuhi just gets pissy when she sees they don't clean well.

>>6649631
>I would've rather had an interesting motivation than "lol crazy bitch.

It's a bit more complex then that.

Granted, Yasu is clearly off her rocker.

It seems that she's incapable of having children, probably stemming from falling off a cliff as a child. This torments Shannon as George keeps talking about kids. Because of this she thinks she doesn't "deserve" love. Yet she's in love with three different people. With Battler and George both tearing her apart. Her entire life has been a lonely struggle where, with the exception of the few times a YEAR that one of the cousins visit, the only company she has are her imaginary friends and personalities. She can't decide what to do with her life, she partly doesn't even want to live anymore.

So she sets up the roulette, either somebody will take everything from her, or she'll kill herself and everyone with her.

Is there a way to skip the chapter after the 50% patch?

>>6649637
I don't think Episode 7 is the literal solution to Episode 4. But the script for the fake test idea is something thought up and executed by Kyrie, and that consistency is important.

If I had to guess, it would be that Yasu began her plan with Kyrie as an accomplice (I'm one of those who theorize what Yasu was trying to do was stage a murder mystery on the island for Battler), Kyrie started killing people for real through the fake test mechanic. Yasu killed her, met Battler, then killed herself.

>>6649660
Saves carry over, just hold ctrl until you get to the point where the patch ended.

>>6649648
I HAVE read the episodes, thank you. With the exception of the episode 7 translation--I read it only with a garbled translation before and am now piecing together what I already knew about it with the spoilers.

I get that they have messed up relationships. I still say it's bad storytelling that they snap and start killing when they're basically handed the answer to all their problems. It's not unreasonable, but it IS lazy. I expected something better.

I'm not buying the second part. They cannot be so disconnected with people they see on a near-daily basis that they don't notice such things. It's not as if they live in a hugely crowded household, most of the time it's just Natsuhi, Krauss, Jessica, and a few servants. Even a shut-in would notice something out of place eventually.

>>6649657
Which is, again, significantly less interesting than what I expected.

I expected something rational. Or at least semi-rational.

Yeah, I'm let down. And a bit bitter about it. Oh well.

Hey, I was going to steam a playthrough, did anyone want to watch (if no one wants to, never mind then)

>>6649669
>I get that they have messed up relationships. I still say it's bad storytelling that they snap and start killing when they're basically handed the answer to all their problems. It's not unreasonable, but it IS lazy. I expected something better.

I think the way the adults started to lose it even with the gold in front of them made sense as it was presented in Episode 7, especially with the personal baggage on top. Things spiraled out of control in what I thought was a believable manner. If it doesn't seem so to you when you read it, not a whole lot else to say here.

>>6649676
I don't think you can really expect THAT much rational reasoning in mass murder.

What were you expecting?

>>6649669
>They cannot be so disconnected with people they see on a near-daily basis that they don't notice such things.

Well, this just might be another "different levels of suspension of disbelief", but I think people like Krauss and Natsuhi would have a lot bigger things to worry about, with Krauss's businesses and all, than the resemblence of a servant girl who cleans their windows and a servant boy who mostly sticks to himself and doesn't talk to anyone much. Especially with, again, the other, older, trusted servants talking like it's a given that that they're seen together as different people all the time.

Is anyone streaming the PS3 Umineko?

>>6649683
>>6649686
If there was an immediate and real threat, I could understand. I always felt the family was really messed up, but had a lot of problems seeing any of them as killers. I guess that's my problem. I definitely didn't expect R07 to actually try and justify making them into killers. It comes off as weak to me.

>>6649704
I'm sure they do have bigger things to worry about most of the time, but not ALL of the time. Even the busiest people have time to themselves, and step outside of their "bubbles" from time to time. I would suppose that part of the reason I refuse to suspend my disbelief here is because I don't LIKE the outcome, either. I was willing to accept ShKannon if it had a REALLY good explanation, but this isn't cutting it for me. It feels like they just left it to the reader to fill in the blanks and I'm having a hard time doing so.

>>6649727
I don't really see a problem with quite a few of them being killers.

None of them are totally moral people. If they stood to gain from killing I could imagine it happening in the right circumstance if something was pushed too far.

Like in this latest incarnation, an argument got heated and a gun was fired off accidentally, this set off a chain of disaster.

>>6649727
Again, the spiraling out of the control was believable to me. The adults got so wrapped up in one-upping each other with how to handle the gold that someone eventually fucked up out of passion/an accident, and it was all completely downhill from there. Kyrie, for example, didn't seem to set her eyes on the gold and decide MASSACRE TIME. But when Eva shot Natsuhi by mistake and people got outright hysterical, it was already too late.

>I'm sure they do have bigger things to worry about most of the time, but not ALL of the time.

When Natsuhi and Krauss aren't worried about their business, they're worried about parenting Jessica and other things. Thinking about servant stuff beyond "are they doing their jobs?" is off their radar, especially, again, when they talk about considering it a matter wholly in Kinzo and Genji's hands where they have little to no involvement. I don't really see where it would be important enough to either of them to actually sit down and go "gee, we've never seen these two random servants together", especially with Lion dropping the information that the family rotates servants a lot.

>>6649755
I think the point here is that just about any of them is POTENTIALLY a killer. But it needs a flashpoint to set things off. Finding the gold is that flashpoint. It doesn't matter who does it. Even if the cousins were to solve the epitaph on their own, the parents would have to be told, and then shit goes down the same as ever. Like Bern and Lambda said- there is no happy ending. Not even the miracle of Lion being brought into the family can change the end waiting for the Ushiromiya family in 1986.

Even if noone solves the epitaph, Yasu carries out the killings. If Kinzo is alive (because Lion was accepted by Natsuhi), he STILL uses the challenge of the epitaph to determine the successor, the gold is found, and the same end awaits. I'm gonna go ahead and say the odds of the siblings solving the epitaph if they all put their heads together is 100%. So there is no deviance from this end.

I just wish I knew what the final Episode will entail. Weren't there some screenshots? Were they translated? Bern and Lambda guaranteed there was no happy ending. And the best Battler could say was that 'it wasn't sad'. Though I fail to understand how everyone dying isn't sad. Unless he meant 'it isn't any more sad than what you know already'. That's kind of depressing.

>>6649802
>Bern and Lambda guaranteed there was no happy ending.

Maybe there will be TWO games, one run by Bern and one run by Battler. Bern's will end in tragedy, and Battler's will end in happiness

It's then up to the reader to decide which one is true. (Which would fit in with there being choices in Episode 8)

For those of you talking about Episode 2: Battler's perspective may not be as off as you think it is. Note that, in Kinzo's study, only some parts are from Battler's POV. The parts where Kinzo speaks are, if you pay attention, 3rd-person narration. However, the part where Battler notices someone sitting across from Kinzo is not...

Also, I'm betting there was a duplicate key to Natsuhi's room.

>>6649842
There is a master key to all of the rooms in the mansion, since the servants need to go in and clean them every once in a while.

>>6649849
Yeah, but in Episode 2, only five master keys existed, and all five were in Rosa's possession.

...No, wait. Technically, they were in MARIA'S possession. Oh shi--

>>6649855
I didn't think Rosa ever had Maria leave her side at any time past that point, though.

>>6649802
Well, there is one possibility I guess- if Beatrice doesn't challenge the family to solve the epitaph in 1986, maybe they wont. But this just seems like it's sidestepping the issue- sooner or later it will be solved. Maybe if Battler came back in 1985, he and Shannon would take off and be happy together, but the epitaph would still be there. Someone would solve it, and the massacre would happen.

Alternatively, if Battler doesn't come till '87, same thing but with George in his place.

I don't think these are going to be the solutions to the problem anyway, if there even is one. Finding the gold seems inevitable, and that's going to be a disaster.

>>6649830
Maybe, but I fail to see a happy ending to the story that changes the fact he's telling it to Ange, presumably at her family's funeral. And I fail to see how a happy ending can be reached at all.

>>6649873
Hmm... the only way out of the tragedy is a true miracle. In that sense, Lion isn't a miracle. A miracle doesn't happen at odds of millions to one. The chances of a miracle happening are zero. But it happens anyway. That's why it's a miracle.

Rika should know that all too well.

I wonder if Battler knows how to catch a bullet? heh

>>6649903
Hasn't Bernkastel herself said that understanding that miracles don't occur is why she is able to be the Witch of Miracles?

>>6649873
To be honest, I would have been pretty happy with Episode 7 as the ending if Lion and Will had just managed to escape. I can accept that in Yasu's world, the tragedy is a done deal, if Ange can pick up the pieces, heal, and move on - that's a powerful and moving story in its own right. But it seems too cruel to me to set up Lion as Beatrice's one ray of light, only mercilessly to stomp it out.

>>6649911

>But it seems too cruel

>Bern

>That's_the_joke.jpg

>>6649909
> ......No matter what kind of effort, fortune, entusiasm, or unity......I know that the end of it all, there is no miracle waiting.
> Specifically because I know that there will be no miracle, I am the Witch of Miracles.

From Witch's Tanabata.

>>6649903
>Don't look for a miracle, be one.

;_;

>>6649909
So Basically She is not the Witch of Miracles...

>>6649968
No, she IS the Witch of Miracles. See >>6649921.

>>6649921
Realizing you had the miracle with you the entire time had to be a bit of a facepalm moment. Kinda like noticing you have the key to someone else's house in your pocket.

Basically Episode 7 is a Troll one...

>>6650038
Basically, the mission statement of this entire series has been trolling. He stated exactly this. You should have jumped ship earlier.

>>6649921
> Specifically because I know that there will be no miracle, I am the Witch of Miracles.
More like
>I can't perform my task, that's why I'm the Witch of Miracles

So does this also mean the witch of Certainty got her title by realizing nothing is ever certain?

>>6650232
Possible.

After all, even her power relies on people not giving up. Basically all she can do is say "Don't give up, you'll succeed eventually"

I have to say ep7 is really good so far, just got past kinzos past story and i liked it a lot. how many hours is this one? as long as ep 6, ep6 took me about 1 week.

>>6650266

Was relaitvely short imo, the tea party seemed eternal though.

Also, KINZO WAS A TRUE SOLDIER OF THE EMPIRE

>>6650266
Not too sure, but it sure felt short. Maybe I just speed read though. Miles shorter than some episodes for sure.

It feels kinda short to me, but then again I did read it split into two halves.

don't spoil me but will i find out why Shanon was all funking crazy when asked to get kanon?

>>6650305
Yes, if you're paying attention.

>>6650305
Yes.

You know, I've read half of it and I have no real desire to read the rest.

The fuck is with this apathy? Perhaps I've lost my taste for 'discussion' of this shit here. I'll get to it eventually, I guess...

I'm kinda sad that I started reading Umineko around 3 weeks ago.

After all, it feels like half the fun is discussing crazy theories and I've missed almost all of it.

>>6650370

There's still one more episode so you'll get your share of spoiler discussion

>>6650305
>i don't know why shanon and kanon can't be in the same scene together.
go back to school.

well i gotta sleep so im officially trying to not think about umineko from now on.

inb4 no sleep at all

Longest fucking teaparty ever

>>6649596
Does anyone have a zip on the English patch for EP.7

>>6650415
http://witch-hunt.com/

GUYS GUYS.. those last few scenes in red that revealed it was kinzo's idea to steal the gold from the french... and beatrice crying to kinzo about the accident leaving her a hermaphrodite.... OMG... just WOW

>>6650370
Well, even though there is still another game yet to discuss, the real theorycrafting was richest from about Episodes 3-5. After 6 came out, there wasn't much left for the real theorycrafters to do but wait to see if their theories were confirmed or denied.

There are still enough questions unanswered to keep discussions lively for a while, but really it's nothing like it was.

Well, there's always the next series. Wonder what's crying next game. I'm betting it's roosters. Hardcore farman mystery coming up.

Can someone please explain what Will meant by Coffin in a Coffin in his closing with Clair?

I still cannot get my head around that twilight

>>6650454

Don't you mean italians?

Why do people think Yasu dressed up as Shannon and Kanon for years now? As we all agreed before the retarded people got their hands on the full episode, Kanon was just an imaginary friend who in reality, maybe only Maria, Nanjo, Kumasawa and Genji knew of. Yasu just wrote Kanon into her letters as a person that she played the role of.

>A kid from school bullied Ange about Kyrie
>went to school with Bernkastel

>>6650462
>Can someone please explain what Will meant by Coffin in a Coffin in his closing with Clair?

Sorry?

>>6650454
>French
>Beatrice crying to Kinzo

>>6650462
He means they were all dead.

>>6650464
need sleep bra

>>6650479

then who the hell locked it?

>>6650466
Because we know that both Shannon and Kanon "exist".

Battler's seen both of them. Unless you're going to say that Battler suddenly isn't reliable in every scene that he sees Kanon in.

Sounds like you're the one with the wrong idea.

>>6650492
Sounds like you're the one with the completely wrong idea. Those episodes are just the mysteries Yasu and some other author wrote. Yes, inside that mystery, Battler has a reliable viewpoint. So what he sees is the truth of that mystery. But that's as far as it goes. It's only a fictional mystery.

>>6650470
HAPPY END IS CLOSE EVERYONE

>>6650505
Rika and Ange went to school together?

>>6650503
OK fine.

Even in the scenario presented by Bern in this episode, KANON STILL APPEARS.

It was a situation with no fantasy, no magic. There's no reason not to believe it's how that particular situation "happened"

>>6650515
Not really.

However, it is the same all girls school Shion went to, but several years later.

>>6650527
>no fantasy
>Will is there

Wat.

Oh by the way, Bernkastel specifically states that what she gave Will isn't the detective's authority. He definitely doesn't exist outside meta-worlds.

>>6650532
I think he was talking about the Tea Party, bro.

>>6650462
>Coffin in a Coffin.

wat

If you meant the twilight with the three in Natsuhi's room, then who knows. The proper statement was "Noone would dispute a coffin is a closed room". We were debating that in the last thread. I think it means that the three were killed elsewhere and dumped in there, but it still doesn't explain how they got locked inside. Or who Battler met at the end of the episode, considering he PICKED UP SHANNON'S HEAD and looked at the hole in her forehead. Logically he had to have been fooled, since he met Beatrice later. But...

>>6650527
Bern's red truth was cut off, she was going to say more. In other words, because she bet that Ange would cut her off, she was able to say something like "This is all truth-(some bullshit here that makes it not truth)" The scenario presented by Bern is just another fiction.

>>6650532
When did Will appear in the part where everyone shot eachother and died?

That's the meta-world stuff. The "reality" stuff had Kanon appear, and again, Battler who's point of view can be concidered 100% reliable in episodes 1 through 4, saw him.

He's real. He may be a crazy split personality of a reverse trap spawned from incest, but he's real.

>>6650540
Well then it was just Shannon in Kanon clothes. What's the big deal?

>>6650546
>>6650543

Both of you, this here.

>>6650548

You know I have been reading the Vine Dine 20 rules and it states this:

>3. There must be no love interest. The business in hand is to bring a criminal to the bar of justice, not to bring a lovelorn couple to the hymeneal altar.

In other words, this whole tale should be discarded OR THOSE STUPID RULES JUST DONT WORK.

>>6650543
I really don't think it's pure fiction. There's obviously more to it, (Will telling us it has no heart is probably really important), that much is obvious, but then you'd have to explain Eva's reaction when six-year-old Ange was crying and begging Eva to tell her her parents didn't do it.

Also, Kyrie is pretty much the one character who still needs to be explained to us.

>>6650490
The idea is that everyone within the room took care of themselves, there was no need for an outside locker. After all, the killer is dead in the room. Though this means any guns in the room would have to be unnoticed. Alternatively, the battle took place mainly with the door open, and Genji interfered for clean up, but in the end the door was locked by one of the people inside. Which is not unlikely, if Yasu had just killed and been killed, they would want to keep Genji out. It was either George or Gohda who did this.

>>6650548
Uhhh that's it.

Time to bring out the red text.

"They definitely would not mistake any different person for Kanon"

"The only one who can claim Kanon's name is the person himself"

In other words, if somebody sees Kanon, it IS Kanon.

Which means that nobody can be thought as Kanon but Kanon.

Which means, that if Shannon dresses up as Kanon, calls herself Kanon, and acts like Kanon, that means she is Kanon.

>>6650565
I can't tell if you're agreeing, but Shannon is Kanon is Yasu is Beatrice.

>>6650559
Why do you think Will never used the red truth, and Battler disproves it in the preview screens of episode 8? Hugest red herring in the whole game. Fags who tried to solve it looking at rules like that barred themselves from seeing the truth, ironically.

>>6650560
While it is fiction, it doesn't mean that there is no truth behind it. For instance, the mystery in episodes 1-4 was not to much who did it and why, but discovering the person behind it. This is what Will keeps going on about, and what Beatrice really wanted Battler to understand. Kanon was just a hint for that. He doesn't necessarily have a ridiculously unlikely existence outside the message bottle fictions where Yasu is always dressing up as both of them. So while Yasu distorts the truth by adding a Kanon there, she is also honest by having that Kanon be played by her, even in the mystery.

>>6650559
Van Dine's kind of a heart-obsessed moralfag now, I don't think he really cares anymore himself.

>>6650559
The rules aren't a strict guideline.

They're a crutch to help bring about thought. It's a baseline so you can see that the author is playing "fair" A mystery doesn't have to follow every rule.

>>6650571
Yeah, I was arguing with the guy who said that Kanon was just a figment of Shannons imagination and never appeared anywhere else, rather then being a alternate personality of Shannon that interacted with people.

I think the implication of the catbox dynamic is that authors can do whatever they want with those two days that are sealed off, but stuff outside it is a different matter, even if you can interpret it with fantasy. We see enough backstory outside the box involving Kanon that I'm inclined to think he was really "there".

Oh Will. Keep that opinion, espescially concerning Bern

>>6650585
By this point, there can be no debate. The truth is out.

On that note, this thread has the wrong topic. It should say "EP7 general."

>>6650592
The word he was looking for is close, but starts with a "B"

>>6650597
Pffft that's so unoriginal.

Why do that when I can post a silly op.

>>6650602
How silly. Nothing is left to debate.

>>6650591
Going by that logic, magic definitely occurs in the backstory. If the back story was entirely accurate, what we would actually see was Yasu standing there doing things inside her own mind. There is reason to believe some of that backstory is actually within the message bottles. After all, Yasu likes to follow mystery's rules, and many of those backstories provided hints for the mystery.

Concidering we filled at least one thread with debate I think NOT!

>>6650611
Go back to seacats, avatarfag. In case you didn't notice, there are still unanswered things.

>>6650614
What kind of things?

>>6650565
That's been bugging me since the end of Episode 6. Because that means there are actually 16 people on the island. But Battler and Beato said in red it was 17. Shannon and Kanon should not be getting counted as separate people, otherwise the other personality, Beatrice, should be counted too (and don't give me some shit about Beatrice being a witch so she doesn't count). Which would mean there are 18 people.

The only way the number can land on 17 is if either Shannon and Kanon ARE different people (which is impossible for other reasons) or if there is another person on the island.

I'm kind of suspecting Erika really did make it to Rokkenjima, but because she couldn't solve Shkannontrice in Ep 6, she denied her own existence since she believed it was impossible.

Of course, this contradicts the 'truth' from the Tea Party. Maybe.

>>6650614
Again, EP7, again, makes it clear that you can see interpretation of backstory that have fantasy in them, but "interpretation" is a little different from writing catbox scenarios where you could throw in people like Erika, or, as you claim, Kanon in there. Especially when Kanon is important to Jessica's backstory too.

>>6650621
There is no extra person on Rokkenjima. "Kanon" and "Shannon" are being counted as different people, even though they are not.
>6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead!

>>6650617
Seacats is gone bro. Too much CP.

>>6650616
>>6650617
That thread was just ignorant people asking questions about the obvious. Everything involving the mystery was made obvious in EP6.

>>6650621
The red was conditional. 'Even *if* Erika is accepted as a guest, the number is 17.' The number assumes that Erika counts.

Tomorrow is Sunday, and I can finish the last 5 episodes of LoGH and start Umineko 7. Man, I hope I can finish it before Christmas.

Average hours to finish it btw?

>>6650625
Kanon being thrown in there is much more likely. It's also a thing of interpretation. He did exist, but he was nothing more than a shared secret. It's ridiculous to suggest the full-blown crossdressing for years. Jessica knows Kanon is just Shannon. There's no need for the Kanon veil, you could call it a trick to mask some of the backstory when it was still early days. All that development was really with Yasu, whose gender identity is uncertain. The most that happened is probably Yasu dressing up as a boyfriend for Jessica during the festival.

>>6650627
By that logic Beatrice must be counted too, since she APPEARS ON THE GAME BOARD. She spoke to Battler in multiple games, and was seen by other people as well.

But she isn't counted. Shannon, Kanon, and Beatrice are all the same person, so they are counted as one. The correct number of people on the island SHOULD be 16.

>>6650631
It's decently short. I'd say 7-8 hours?

>>6650628
>>6650629
Seacats down for CP? wut? I thought they were just a bunch of gaiafaggots, but I guess they were pedophiles too. Just because your board is down, that doesn't mean you can act like a gaiafag here. Stop using an avatar and talk normally.

>>6650637

Including TP and Witching Hour ?

>>6650636
What more do you want than the red truth? There is not much logic behind it. Kanon is being called a person, Beatrice is not. Likely, because Kanon was always assumed a person from the start by Battler, while Beatrice was someone who needed to be proved. If she so wished, Beatrice could have probably lowered the number to 16 by no longer counting Kanon, but she was counting him.

>>6650614
Personally I think a good rule of thumb is this;

Scenes with magic: Clearly not to be trusted, take a look at what happens afterwords, the magical events are likely an exaggeration of real ones.

Real events I'm inclined to believe unless they later are proven false with the red. For instance, every scene with Kinzo can't be taken at face value anymore. They can be reinterpreted in other ways however. To continue the example: Any scene with Natsuhi interacting with Kinzo can be seen as her speaking with her Imaginary Friend Kinzo.

To extend this to the whole Shannon/Kanon/Beato thing.

Any scene that just has Shannon or Kanon alone interacting with characters can likely be trusted. Any scene with Shannon, Kanon, and Beatrice interacting with each other can be assumed to all taking place in Yasu's imagination. Her personalities interacting in her head, while it's not "really" happening.

Any scene that has both Shannon and Kanon speaking AND being spoken to can't be trusted and are treated as magic scenes. However, I feel there's a slight catch.

If only one of the two is actually interacted with, that is to say that Shannon is the only one spoken to, even if Kanon speaks, then it can mean that Kanon is only there in Yasu's head. But if anybody speaks to both of them while they're in the same area, it's not to be trusted.

And of course, anything told from Battler's point of view can be taken as true, with two exceptions Episode 2 at the end when he's so drunk he can't see straight and Episode 5 when he isn't the detective, Interestingly enough, we NEVER see anything from Erika's point of view in 5, when she's the detective, so 5 is quite possibly the least reliable episode to glean facts from.

>>6650621
>But Battler and Beato said in red it was 17.

Actually they said that "even if you come, there are only 17"

This means that it IS possible that only 16 people are there, and Erika showing up made it 17.

However, Erika defined herself as "The 18th person" so when a truth came out that denied that, she vanished.

>>6650643
It's not taking away from you "debate," is it?

>>6650655
It's either Kanon talking in Yasu's mind, or Shannon saying both things, as often Kanon and Shannon will talk to someone but both their lines could be merged and the conversation will still flow. The exceptions to this are usually lines by Kanon/Shannon where they acknowledge each other, very likely to be within Yasu's mind.

>>6650664
And if you started being even worse with XD and whatnot anyway or roleplaying as your avatar, that wouldn't really detract from the debate so much as it detracts from the board quality and presents us as no better than gaia.

>>6650665
Yeah that's basically what I said at one point.

>>6650635
>Jessica knows Kanon is just Shannon.

This would mean that Jessica knows that she is A)in love with a girl (and there's no indication she's a lesbian) B) Chasing after the girl her cousin wants to marry, even though she's rejected her.

>>6650665
You could connect them together, or you could ignore one or both of them completely, as those shown to be with both Shannon and Kanon tend to do.

>>6650674
Being a board elitist is bad too.

If he wants to post images as he posts LET HIM.

It doesn't hurt anybody.

>>6650676
Well you seemed to be saying that if both of them speak to someone it can't be trusted, but often both will speak but their lines could easily belong to just one person and the conversation would still work.

>>6650676
And C) In love with a girl that likes to dress up as a boy and pretend to be her own little brother.

>>6650663
To be precise, she called herself the '18th human', whereas Battler and Beato referred to her as the '17th person'.

Even if you buy into the theory that red truths are subjective to the world they are being stated in, all red truths stated in the same world are true for that world. So, there is an extra 'human' on the island who doesn't count as a 'person'.

This is why I don't buy into Kanon and Shannon being counted separately by Battler and Beato.

>>6650685
I guess I was a little unclear.

If somebody speaks to both Shannon and Kanon it can't be trusted. I they speak to just one then it can be interpreted as the other only being there in Yasu's imagination.

>>6650676
Jessica is a huge tomboy. Why can't she be a lesbian too? On top of that, we don't know how much Jessica actually knew about Yasu. Going by Lion, Yasu could appear as a serious girl or a feminine man. So it's not unlikely a relationship went on here in the confusion of adolescence. George rare ever came, after all.

There is no hint needed to show that Jessica has lesbian tendencies, if they can be called lesbian tendencies at all. The scenes with Kanon who is nothing but Yasu's creation are evidence enough for this. It is far more likely than a scenario where Yasu tricks people on the island with disguises for several years.

Everyone saw how Yasu treated Shannon early on, right? Yasu doesn't have to dress up as imaginary friends, unless it became necessary. That it became necessary much more often probably added to her instability.

>>6650674
Oh come now, would we ever do that?

>>6650689
This is true.

It's possible that Shannon and Kanon are one "human" while still being two "people"

>>6650689
>This is why I don't buy into Kanon and Shannon being counted separately by Battler and Beato.
How can you not "buy into" it when there is red text proving that they do? Unless you're going to say there are actually two Kumasawas dead or two Genjis dead, which just seems like making excuses.

>>6650689
>whereas Battler and Beato referred to her as the '17th person'
This never happened.

>>6650701
Personalities don't add to the head count, but they do seem to have names.

I still don't understand what Battler's sin was.

Everything else I get, but that...

The tea party that is supposed to be the reality show both Shannon and Kanon talking to people.
Now stop arguing about stuff that are fucking proven in the game.

I have a question. Bernkastel said that she would be the next game master, but at the end of the ????, Battler told Ange that he would show her the true story of the Rokkenjima murders.
So, EP8 is going to be Bern's game, Battler's truth or both?

>>6650698
Yasu dosn't have to trick EVERYONE. Especially since it likely wasn't a trick, but her actually BECOMING Kanon, which is a bit different then a trick.

Genji and Kumasawa knew about it most likely and went along with it.

Krauss and Natsuhi didn't care enough about the servants to figure out it. Remember, she had no idea Jessica was friends with any servants, and had forbidden her from doing so. and Krauss probably cared even LESS about what the servants did.

None of the others were around long enough to figure it out.

And Jessica..? Well, remember, she did manage to be fooled into thinking Kinzo was alive. She's not that good a liar. She probably had no reason to look deep into it. And again, she WANTED George to hook up with Shannon, why would she persue Kanon if she knew they were the same person?

>>6650689
Erika is the 18th person, counting Kanon and Shannon as people. However, Battler and Beato note that even if she is accepted, the real number of people on the island that day was 17, again counting Kanon and Shannon as people. This is not a truth about Shkanon. It's a truth about Erika. Erika in that scene was prepared to face the truth about herself herself, so it makes sense. Basically, they're saying that even if they welcomed her, it would all be a farce. She doesn't exist there, she was just an addition for 'what ifs' so her existence was denied.

>>6650709
Battler's sin was making Shannon think he was going to take her away and become her lover/boyfriend/husband and then not coming back for six years.

>>6650709
He gave Shannon the wrong idea about their relationship, and then forgot about it. As Will says, that Battler forgot is the sin, not the broken promise.

>>6650712
It seems that EP8 will include choices like an adventure game.

>>6650712
My theory is that there will be two games at the same time, and it's up to the reader to decide which one is ultimately true.

>>6650725
That isn't a sin, though.

>>6650698
>Jessica is a huge tomboy. Why can't she be a lesbian too? On top of that, we don't know how much Jessica actually knew about Yasu. Going by Lion, Yasu could appear as a serious girl or a feminine man. So it's not unlikely a relationship went on here in the confusion of adolescence. George rare ever came, after all.


Why people assume Yasu is a girl?

Yasu is sexless, Leon sex wasn't revealed

>>6650709
>I still don't understand what Battler's sin was.
That the promise he made to Shannon actually wasn't important to him at all, and he had forgotten all about her.

Then when she'd finally made up her mind about George in 86 and had a clear new path in life he came back and they obviously still had a thing for each other.

Of course as mentioned it's possible he still remembered her after three years but George took the letter.

>>6650721
Jessica's relationship clearly loses out to George's, it may have just been a fling with both knowing it couldn't last. It may have just been Yasu entertaining Jessica's fantasies, while still noting that this "Kanon" between them is not a real person and isn't really allowed to love. Jessica, who lives on the island, is interested in Kanon and is best friends with Shannon, is ridiculously unlikely to fall for an act like that. The most likely explanation is that she is in on it.

Even if Natsuhi and Krauss take little to no notice, we're still talking about years of time. Then, what about Gohda? He works with them constantly, and he too doesn't realize? The explanation that Kanon did not openly exist except in the message bottles is much more likely, and was accepted, until now it seems everything goes ten steps backward because some people have only just read these parts.

>>6650704
The red text is nonsense the way you are interpreting it. Erika's statement that there are '18 humans' cannot be false. Battler and Beato's statement that there are '17 people' is also true. Therefore, one of the people being counted is being counted as 'two humans'. (this would make more sense the other way around really. Dunno if this is just a language thing, a translation issue, or if R07 is just being obtuse)

THEREFORE, in Battler and Beato's statement, they essentially confirmed the dual existence of Shannon and Kanon as a single entity with two minds. Any other way of looking at it means Erika said something in red that simply wasn't true, which pretty much tosses all the rules we know right out the window.

This doesn't actually prove Erika made it to the island alive, since there is an 'even if' clause attached to it, but it doesn't DISprove it either. Erika denied her own existence since she couldn't grasp what was just said to her, but it didn't actually deny the possibility of her appearing on the island.

>>6650737
Due to the cliff accident, it's probable that Yasu couldn't bear children anymore. This could have led Yasu to believe he/she had no gender.

>>6650740
Gohda prefers to keep his head down about weird shit, and he also failed to think anything was weird about not seeing Kinzo for an entire year.

>>6650737
See:
>if they can be called lesbian tendencies at all
I'm not assuming Yasu is a girl. I do however call Yasu a "she" because it's very annoying to talk about someone whose gender you don't know, when it comes to pronouns. Unless you are constantly acknowledging it by always saying he/she/it or whatnot, which is tiring.

>>6650751
Alternate theory: due to the accident, Yasu lost his male genitalia, so no longer had the function of either gender.

>>6650737
>Why people assume Yasu is a girl?
Because her most prominent aliases, Shannon and Beato, are girls, and two of her three loves were boys. It isn't a certainty, but by all appearances the girl side's the dominant one, so it's just handier to refer to her as such.

>>6650754
It's safer to identify Yasu as female, in my opinion, if only because 2 out of the 3 personalities she cooked up for herself are female, and the first one "Shannon" was also a girl. The male one, Kanon, only came into being to distract herself from the pain of Battler ditching her by providing a little brother to take care of.

>>6650754
"It"

>>6650737
I actually think Yasu is intersex, but I think it's pretty obvious she mainly identifies as female, so I refer to her as "she". I usually refer to Lion as "he", though, because I think because of the way Lion was raised he skews the opposite way.

Now that's just sick.

>>6650762

Oh 34, you are so smart.

Why were you so little in ep VII?

>>650756
That's correct, and I did say he/she. Personally, I believe Yasu is female.

>>6650744
Again, you are just completely ignoring the episode 3 red. If it's just one "person" being counted as two "humans", then how come Kanon and Shannon collectively are two people in this red?
>6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead!

Because both Kanon and Shannon are being counted, Erika's red is true. In the context of episodes that actually contain her existence, that is. Battler and Beato remind her that her existence is only limited to those what-if gameboards.

>>6650772
Misquoted. I meant
>>6650756

>>6650771
She was too busy laughing at all the trolling going on.

>>6650770

Does someone have the pic about Bern suggestic a kakera were Kinzo rapes Lion?

Did someone solved Shannon body in ep II room while i was sleeping?

>>6650774
That's easy enough.

The Shannon and Kanon personalites were "killed", as in they were no longer a part of Yasu.

>>6650759
To be fair, Lion and Will seemed pretty friendly too. Will showing up to fight for Lion's honor and and ass pinchings.

>>6650771
Lambda has something up her sleeve. I don't know if that's good or bad, but I do think she's setting Bern up to take a fall in the next Episode and straighten her shit out a little. Maybe.

>>6650788
This doesn't explain them being counted as two separate people.

>>6650774
Because being dead isn't the same as being alive.
Death is an one time event permanent state.
Kanon die meaning that Yasu decides that his role is finished and she becomes Shannon, of course this death count in red, later Yasu decides that it's Shannon's turn to die and it's shown in red too.
So Shannon and Kanon are both "dead" and count in the red as such

>>6650798
The "dead" part is irrelevant. The "person" part is what I'm talking about. If they are only one "person" but two "humans", this doesn't make sense. While they are played by the same body, Beato always acknowledged them as two people via the red.

>>6650795
A "person" can be defined as simply a being that has independent thought and its own existence. In this sense a completely different personality would be its own person.

>>6650709

That he was a huge dick.


I mean, the way he said the white horse thing back in EP3 and how he talked about his crush made everything seem too casual.

But now you have the whole scene and context he is a jerk. He tells her he will keep her in his house, to change her life and then just forgets because a tantrum with daddy.

He is the one who talks about the heart in the mistery and the first who doesn't gives a shit about the heart in Beato's game.

It doesn't matter how much you change, if there is something as relevant you cared six years ago there is no way you won't have a clue if something very related appears in front of you.

Is it just me or /jp/ isn't really exiceted about ep VII? I see no threads

They say you can only make a universe with two people, yet:

Yasu and Shannon make a universe together
Beatrice and Shannon make a universe together
Shannon and Kanon make a universe together.

If Shannon could make a universe with an alternate personality then everyone would be happy.

I think Beatrice must be a seperate person, and the only viable identity for that person is Kanon. The backstory we see for Yasu is probably bullshit, or at least half truths. Shannon and Yasu may not have met until later on, which is why Shannon "forgot" about Yasu. The whole first few chapters is just backstory Yasu invented for herself to tell Shannon as to how she knows her, so she doesn't have to admit to basically stalking her(which is also how she knew about and developed her own crush on Battler).

And of course both Shannon and Yasu "Believe" in magic, like Beatrice and Maria "believe" in magic, so that's why they both see it.

>>6650816
Discussion, which is the most interesting part,can easily be contained in one thread.

Plus, half of /jp/ already read this ages ago through either knowing Japanese of machine translations

>>6650816

And where are you posting?

>>6650817
At first, Yasu is Jessica's friend that goes to school with her.

Immediately after Yasu becomes Beatrice and leaves Shannon, Shannon starts going to school.

>>6650811
It seems people who didn't see the start of this are jumping into the debate. I'm not saying Kanon and Shannon have different bodies. They definitely don't. I'm saying that from the beginning, they have be treated as "two people" for red purposes. I say this is because Battler had the assumption that they were two people, and this was taken as a rule of the game. The number of people was only relevant for Battler when he wanted to say someone else was on the island, which we all know at this point isn't true.

>>6650816
the thing came out less than a day ago and we already have two fuckhuge threads, you idiot.

Is there any definitive proof Shannon and Kanon have seperate bodies? Not mysteries you can't apparently solve any other way. I mean actual things that simply cannot happen unless they are the same person.

Also how do you solve Erika seeing them both together? And what was said already, needing two people to create a universe?

>>6650817
So you think Yasu isn't Shannon? Oh boy. Why can you just look at huge sections of story and call them bullshit? What makes you think your whole "you need two people to create a universe" is any less bullshit? I could easily just call that bullshit as well, considering Maria only needed one for her universe.

>>6650785
No new ideas yet I think. Not sure what else can be said about it anyway.

The likeliest explanation is that Yasu dressed up Jessica's corpse as Shannon, and was hiding in the room somehow when Battler came in. But this is a huge gamble at best- 'Shannon's' corpse was placed where it couldn't be easily seen in the first Episode so Battler wouldn't realize it wasn't really her.

And Battler looked right at the Shannon's face. He saw the hole in her head.

Then again... we only assume that Shannon can't have died there because Battler met Beatrice later. If we debunk that by pointing out the narrative was unreliable (shifting POV, and Battler was drunk, possibly on absinthe), the it's possible the room was exactly as it appeared.

Noone would dispute a coffin is a closed room.

>>6650840
>I mean actual things that simply cannot happen unless they are the same person.

The closed room in Episode 6 can pretty much ONLY be solved in Shannon and Kanon are the same being.

>Also how do you solve Erika seeing them both together?

Simple, we never see anything from piece Erika's point of view, which means we never see ANYTHING in Episode 5 that can be taken as 100% reliable.

>>6650840
>Also how do you solve Erika seeing them both together?
How many times has this been brought up, and how many times has this been answered? Episode 5 is never from Erika's viewpoint. The scene where she "meets" Shannon and Kanon is blown ridiculously out of proportion, the narration only says she turns to both of them and says close the door. More likely, she turns to one person and tells them to close the door. Erika being there does not make the scene true. Nor does the narration saying she's facing a certain direction show the scene is true. Erika was there when Battler "saw" Kinzo. As we know, Battler isn't even allowed to mistake something for Kinzo, so the only explanation is that it was an inaccurate viewpoint.

It's fun, /jp/ raged so much at Shkannontrice back then, but now they are talking about it like it's the most natural thing in the word.

>>6650851
Eh, I think EP7 actually managed to make it work, so my rage has subsided.

>>6650851
Because the people who raged at it accepted it as truth and moved on. Most of them. You would have to be ignorant beyond ignorant or delusional beyond delusional or have the reading comprehension of a 5 year old to now think Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice aren't all parts of one person.

>>6650851

I fought to the bitter end, but ultimately, even I surrendered. I don't think any serious debaters are left to really argue anti-Shkannontrice theories.

>>6650851
When the theory was first made, it sounded utterly insane. As time goes on more and more evidence supports it. At this point the story's pretty much done everything but say in gold all caps "SHANNON AND KANON AND BEATRICE ARE ALL THE SAME DUDE. AND GEROGE JESSICA AND BATTLER WANT TO BANG THEIR AUNT"

>>6650850
This, and if you take every scene with Erika in it as gospel truth you go beyond retarded. See her outburst at the table, or her meta-battle in Kinzo's study.

>>6650851
I still believe in Moon-chan.

>>6650864

>>6650864
Somebody explain this to me.

>>6650864
Moon-chan was dead before it even got off the ground, but now it's even, if possible, deader.

>>6650861
technically also their counsin/sibling.

I bet Kyrie saying smashing a woman's face is one of her old habits refers to her beating her poor little sister. It's Kyrie's fault Kasumi is the way she is.

>>6650875
or asumu.

>>6650875
Or maybe she smashed Asumu's face.

>>6650864
>>6650866
>>6650868
>>6650869

Moon-chan was the Jessitrice theory, wasn't it? Or a Jessica mastermind theory? I quit paying attention to Jessica theories other than my own around Episode 5 so I'm a little out of touch.

So, are Genji and the others accomplices?

>>6650887
Genji and Kumasawa. Poor Gohda doesn't know anything and yet he dies ;_;

How does stealing the gold being Kinzo's idea make sense? Will's detective authority should have forced Kinzo to tell the whole truth. But this shits all over the flashback. I want to believe Kinzo was just innocently caught up in the whole thing ;_;

>>6650875

Really? from EP4 it seems that Kasumi had a peaceful, easy life till the headship got passed on to her. If Kasumi was getting hit by Kyrie then she would have mentioned that Kyrie abused her as one of her listed reason of loacthing her.

>>6650887
If you look at the past episodes for ten seconds it's immediately obvious that Kumasawa, Genji, and Nanjo, are all working with Yasu, whether you think she's really going around murdering everyone or trying to set up a fake murder mystery.

>>6650887


Will mentioned that the closed in room of Eva and Hedeyoshi is a fake, so yeah, Genji definitely lied.

>>6650887
"Are Ronove and Virgilia accomplices?"

>>6650902
According to the reality shown in EP7, there wasn't any closed room, so accomplices were unnecessary. In the fictional mysteries, since Genji and Kumasawa promised to obey Beatrice, the true master, Beatrice may have incorporated them as accomplices.

>>6650910
Lets not forget the bank cards worth hundreds of millions of yen sent to their families.

>Your face when Will is K1

>>6650914
Wasn't it Eva's doing?

>>6650923
Nope, that was Yasu. Although Ange got one too.

>>6650923
No. There was only one card on the island, worth a billion yen. Not several with 200 mil apiece.

Also, Ange concluded the letters had to have been sent by Beatrice since the handwriting matched, and the timing of their arrivals implied they were sent before the conference.

>>6650923
Stupid as always, eh piece? That stuff was sent before the event even happened, of course it wasn't Eva.

>>6650921
I guess they share the hotblooded "let's beat fate" attitude?

I can't believe people are still having so much trouble with this. We should assume ange's world is real world.

It's pretty obvious that most of them died. Only ones that have a chance are

Eva <--alive in ange's world
Battler <-- likely to not be dead (never dies in the stories) also supports the sorcerer in chiru (survived body guard)

maybe less likely
kyrie <--survived (hiding could be her sister/eva-trice in ange's world cause eva would crush her)

even less likely, but possibly cause softfags need happy end
Shkanonleongaapyasutrice <-w/e you wanna call her/him/it. (survived, with battler hiding)

DEAD
everyone else (they would appear in ange's world otherwise)

even if shkanontrice had her plans kyries/X baddie's plans would mess up those plans, they are likely to be supported by X factor(azumu's family) that's why ange survives 1986 in ALL kakera. everyone dead + ange alive = ushiromiya estate goes to whoever ange's guardian is.......who has the most to gain? this theory is only for worlds where EVERYONE dies

>>6650921
Whoa.

>>6650921
haven't took the time to think about things unrelated to piecing together my final truth, but yeah why not?

both are the main male protags
k1(main) = will (battler replacement/foil) =battler(main)

>>6650934
>>6650933
>>6650931
>>6650933
I see.

On another note, Battler may be dead after all.

Sorry if this was brought up already but I don't ha ve the time to read all the threads.

What happened to Battler in the Tea Party?

Is it just me or the epitaph is not solved yet? I mean the part about the 4 treasures was totally ignored. The first thing I thought was that the rifles were the 4 treasures and you had to do something with that.

By the way, was Maria's death shown?

>>6650935
I've seen Japanese fans describe Will as kinda having Akasaka's role but Keiichi's attitude/determination. Though he has his own distinct, very grumpy personality.

>>6650953

Nope, but Kyrie killed her, probably with a knife

>>6650950
>All the gold
All the gold.
>Lost souls
Beatrice is "resurrected"
>Lost love
Kinzo's love for Beatrice
>Put the witch to sleep
Kinzo's regrets are all washed away, the Beatrice witch no longer exists, he properly treats Beatrice as a daughter.

Not hard.

>>6650953
No, but Kyrie pretty much admitted to killing her.

>>6650936
Battler was shot dead by Eva in Episode 3. He was in front of Beatrice's portrait in Episode 1. Kinzo's room in 2. The rose garden in 4 (guessing on that one, he might have been in front of the portrait again). The only game he solved the epitaph in was 5, and Beatrice wasn't waiting for him in that episode. So there was noone to tell him about the bomb.

Honesly, Battler surviving doesn't seem likely. I got the impression in Episode 7 that Kyrie killed him when he saw her coming out of the mansion covered in blood and a gun and knife in her hands. But maybe he ducked out without her noticing him. I can't believe he wouldn't try and save anyone else he could under the circumstances though.

>>6650950
Eva probably killed him on the way to killing Rudolf.

>>6650950
I'm not sure about what you mean by Battler, but you may have a point about the epitaph.

>>6650953
The narration for Kyrie carving up Battler and Maria were skipped.

>>6650963
Why would Kyrie kill him? She had a deal with Rudolf to let him try to convince him, which Rudolf wants to because Kyrie really is Battler's biological mother. Rudolf saying Battler's taking a long time and then Eva showing up is a dead giveaway.

>>6650947

Battler has to be dead. He could appear to Ange like Beatrice did to Natsuhi, but he has to be a sorcerer when he eventually visits that other novel Ryukishi07 wrote.

Does someone have Will tag for pixiv?

I can only find Will/Leon

>>6650950
That's pretty simple.

>One shall be all the gold from the Golden Land
The ten tons of gold.

>One shall be the resurrection of all the dead souls
"Beatrice" coming back to life.

>One shall be the resurrection of the love that was lost.
Kinzo's love for his child coming back, rather then the perverse love for 'Beatrice".

>One shall put the witch to sleep for all time.
With Kinzo having apologized and atoned, "Beatrice" can finally rest.

>>6650946
also wanted to add that
rika = bern
k1 = will
satoko = lion
hanya = hanyu
umineko EP 7 = higurashi forced cos-play

>>6650971

>satoko = lion
>hanya

>>6650967
Just because Kyrie told Rudolph he could try and convince Battler, doesn't mean she really meant it. She obviously hated Battler. Why take chances? We're also assuming she wasn't planning on killing Rudolph in the end anyway, once the rest were taken care of.

>>6650969
ウィラード・H・ライト

>>6650971
It's been a while since a pic has softened my heart.
Now I can go to bed and think happy thoughts.

>>6650973
Kyrie would have had no troubling killing everyone else on her own. She didn't kill Rudolf in the room when she could have. She used Ange as a bond to Rudolf, which tells me she actually cared for him and would respect his wishes.

>>6650968
battler is not dead. never even dies in the stories aside of 3 where it's not confirmed. always MISSING.

sorcerer battler is ange time battler(in hiding) altering the story after figuring out the truth, no other way that he could use the gold against opposing party.

>>6650965
Actually as far as we know neither Eva nor Rudolf nor Kyrie had yet met Battler by the time Kyrie was killed.

>>6650974

Oh, so Will tag is mostly Will/Leon.. damn

>>6650976
I kind of liked Kyrie's attitude when Rudolf was killed. I think she cared about Rudolf, but in a way she knew was fucked up, and he put her through so much shit, so it pretty much was a relief when he was gone.

By the way, why didn't Rudolf kill Kyrie when she said that she would kill Battler if he didn't believe Rudolf?
I mean, Battler is Rudolf's fucking son.

>>6650977
He's missing because he was blown to bits. The police identified Maria from a fragment of jawbone right? Would Battler have run off on his own and left his cousins to die?

>>6650970
>>6650959
Well that's the obvious solution but what I mean is that the last part could also play a role in the riddle. People are satisfied after finding the gold so they don't give too much importance to it.

We now know the truth, but did someone figure what the fuck is the golden text?

I can't think of anything.

>>6650982
It was pretty obvious Rudolf kind of lost it after Kyrie made him kill George.

>>6650977
>never even dies in the stories aside of 3 where it's not confirmed.
Dies in 4.

>>6650985
It's convenient BS.

>>6650531
but the uniform is completely different in every way?
I tihnk you're just pulling shit from your ass.

>>6650983
cousins were already dead. battler survived cause he always had a benefactor be it shanontrice or eva or rudolf.

If 1/2 were originals and everything after are stories created by those in the 98(ange world) then battler has to be alive for sorcerer battler to create the golden truth and game 6.

>>6650993

Maybe they changed it

The name doesn't lie

Battler is the last one to take the test, right? Maybe he saw Jessica's, Gohda's, Maria's or George's corpses, and he chose to run away to the other side of the island. It's unlikely, but whatever.

>>6650984
I don't see why it would play a role, considering Kinzo's intention with the epitaph in the first place.

>>6650993
>but the uniform is completely different in every way?
Ange always has her custom one-winged-eagle clothes, I don't think that's supposed to be the actual school uniform.

>>6651003
?

It's been a while sicne I read meakashi-hen, does it really state the school shion goes to is St Lucias? I don't even remember a name being mentioned.

oh well, just another little reference from Higurashi.

>>6650987
TIPS
missing.
also his story ended where beatrice rejects him.

hugging the witch part was fake since shanon was dead (killed herself after battler failed).

Haha Oh Rosa. How different things could have been if you just agreed with Eva

>>6651015
Rosa is fucking stupid.

>>6651015
i don't think bern's game is all true. Rosa is probably the culprit in 2 and in that one she was good with with 1 bar.

>>6651020
So now it's Rosa's fault instead of Eva being a braindead bitch?
Yeah, no.

>>6651020

Everyone is fucking stupid

I really liked how Beato didn't give a fuck in that scene

"Here the gold, the guns and the card, fuck yourself"

>>6651024
At that point she was willing to die anyways so what did she care?

>>6651024
>>6651023
god you guys don't even know that's bern trolling you. Remember in 2 where rosa too only 1 bar of gold and tried to run with it? that's only 10m.

>>6651023

No Rosa was too stupid (or "naive" as Kyrie said) The moment krauss died or..Natsuhi kicked the can. There was no way they could have converted this gold anyway. If they got the police involved the chances of the gold being found would have been high.

New thread

>>6651043

So wait, if Kinzo really was the one that suggested stealing the Italian gold in the first place, who's to say the others didn't lie to Will as well? How can we even be sure Italian Beatrice ever loved Kinzo? Maybe he was a nutcase that kidnapped her and kept her on the island.

>>6651008
Yeah, Shion and Ange are same school.

Watch this: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?mmhmc0immzz
A fanmade, crossover clip IF those two meet each other.

>>6651045
why did you made a new thread when this one isn't even on bump limit?
holy fuck you're retarded

>>6651198
You can stay here, if you'd like.

To people who doubt the truth of Bern's Tea Party: How do you explain away her "This is all truth-" in red?