/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>good riddance
You're talking about Saya right?

Saya looked very hot, but the knowledge she was actually a shoggoth prevented me from ever fapping to her sex scenes.

>>6330092
All that should matter is how she looks to YOU. What others see is irrelevant.

>>6330092
What a faggot!

>>6330092

And how was she killed? I thought Old Ones and all those couldn't be killed with weapons.

>>6330102
Saya isn't that powerful compared to most lovecraftian creatures.

>>6330102
She is just blob of meat. With enough firepower you can make minced meat out of her.
Also >Liquid Nitrogen

>>6330096
Fapping to her is hard when looking at her makes me think of this.

>>6330091
>You're talking about Saya right?
Yep, never disliked a VN character that much.

>>6330096
Nah, the Yoh scenes are disturbing, think about it: Two slimy blobs of flesh fucking you while one of them is in constant pain and terror from her own warped body (if you call it that,) not to be a moralfag but that isn't too appealing to me.

And I never liked a character as much as the good doctor.

>>6330112
You should visit /d/. After that, such scene will be inappealing for different reasons.

>>6330112
Get out moralfag

>>6330127
Go suck on some buckshot.

>>6330088
Mai waifu.

I'm thinking this image is a little too pedoerotic to be my main wallpaper.

>>6330167
Don't you mean "not sufficiently"?

>>6330167
Only if you're still sharing a computer with someone (in that case kill yourself) and they are normalfags.

OP is a faggot

>>6330194
I get it you prefer the slug over the badass Doctor, now stop with the /b/ shit.

>>6330088
Stop it, please!

>>6330099
Protip: That's just feel-good quasi-psycho bullshit.
Most assholes you meet consider themselves nice people, doesn't make them any less anyoing and even if you have the most positive self-image: if you're a fucktard it's just going to make everyone uncomfortable and hate you.

Meh, that doctor was pretty one dimensional man. I don't see why anyone likes her. Even if you didn't like Saya and wanted her dead, I think Kouji would be the more preferred killer/hero.

As for me, I thought Saya was a very entertaining and interesting character.

There's just something about badass, intelligent women that I love so much.

>>6330127
Basically a scaled down version of the Yoh/Saya scene- If they we're turned inside out. Moralfaggorty has nothing to do with it, a vivid imagination however does.

>>6330315
That looks like shit encircling semen.

Anybody has scans for that Saya / Angelos Armas artbook?

>>6330327
Exactly. And if you want to belong- you better get off on that.

Where all these new ryoko pictures coming from?

>>6330327
It really looks more like shit encircling soap.

>>6332117
*fap* *fap* *fap*

>>6333194
Fucking saved.

>>6333536
But, but she is MY blob monster. Where is your sense for loyalty.

>>6330180

I wish I knew you. I really do.

>>6333536
You are pretty dumb.

>>6333607
Awww, sorry for insulting your slug. Here's a loli.

>>6333536
Tentacle flesh blobs deserve love too ;_;

>>6330107
Saya was alright, she's not even human. Fuminori was the monster.

>>6333696

Exactly.

And if I can give it to them without feeling repulsed, wouldn't that make me a good person?

After all, I may be the only one that sees her that way.

>>6333715
Nah, that's not the problem. The whole turning the world into hell and torturing people with body horror part was kind of an jerk move though.

>>6333714
>>6333737
>Fuminori was the monster.
>turning the world into hell and torturing people with body horror part was kind of an jerk move though.

This. I could forgive ending the world if the world looks like hell anyway, that's some impaired judgement. But there was no reason to be so cruel to Yoh, especially after she stopped looking like a monster.

>>6333737
>The whole turning the world into hell and torturing people with body horror part was kind of an jerk move though.

Exactly that's an appealing revenge fantasy to the resident flesh blobs of /jp/.

>>6333949
Troll harder.

>>6333997
You're honestly saying it's not?

>>6334017
It's too indiscriminate to be revenge.

>>6334022
Revenge fantasies against society as a whole run rampant on 4chan. At least that's the impression I've got.

can somebody explain Lovecraft shit too me, i hear about it all the time but have no idea what anybody is talking about. Where they a bunch of books or something? when did they come out? how did one person make all this shit up?

>>6334068
Have you heard of this site

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lovecraft

>>6334068
google motherfucker

http://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/lovecraft/

it's pretty much love it or hate it.

>>6334077
so he made saya? which book was about what she is.

>>6334087
No Saya no Uta is "Lovecraftian" IE it shares some themes with some of Lovecraft's works, like in Call of Cthulu where there's a monster unknown to mankind. The idea of "hidden knowledge" was also there too.

>>6334087
How about you first fucking read it carefully and then come back.

>>6334100
>Lovecraftian:
Horror that relies on the idea that there are terrible things in the universe and that humans have only been lucky in not meeting any of it and that they are best of just hiding from the world. It generally emphasizes terror of the unknown, alien and strange- mostly in the form of interdimenstional monsters/gods/demons that are as terryfing as they are evil.

Saya no Uta is Lovercraftarian because it is implied she is a scout for such beings and that there is nothing you can do against it in the long run- unless you want to end up like Ryoko or Kouji- except hiding and ignoring it. Even if Ryoko might have killed Saya- there is still a whole universe full of those things like her lurking.

>>6334112
I read it like a year ago. i just didn't know who Lovecraft was, reading up on him now.

>>6334124
In short: The universe is slimy, terrifying and evil. And humans are fucked.

So how where love crafts stories? Did people go WTF when they read them?

>>6334124
Yeah I'm not really big on lovecraft so I just said what I understood.

>>6334134
Though I haven't read his books I can't imagine they are genuinely scary for those of us that regularly fight such things in every video game ever.

>>6334150
Yes, they went entirely WTF.

>>6334150
Not really. Chthulu was kind of underwhelming. Unnecessarily long buildup to something anti-climatic. I've seen too many "OMG a giant monster!" to be impressed with it. Maybe at the time he wrote it that was impressive, I don't know.

>>6334150
>love crafts
Learn to write.
>Did people go WTF when they read them?
People still go WTF now, imagine what it was like a century ago. Back then it must have been even worse since people started becoming aware of how big this universe thing is but didn't know anything about it. There were lots of people who believed Lovecraft was spot on. And that we we're best to hide our heads in the sand from it all, kinda like the people who oppose stem-cell research out of fear from Hollywood-esque mutants.

>>6334159
It's not Chutulu himself that is supposed to be scary, it is the notion that the universe is utterly alien to us.
>Back then it must have been even worse since people started becoming aware of how big this universe thing is but didn't know anything about it. There were lots of people who believed Lovecraft was spot on.

Fear of the unknown is the most potent fear and Lovecraft was the master of that shtik.

To be fair he's not really wrong. It's possible something like chthulu exists and we don't know about it.

>>6334154
>Though I haven't read his books I can't imagine they are genuinely scary for those of us that regularly fight such things in every video game ever.
Meh, in this day and age of knowledge and rationalism it's kinda hard to be afraid of anything but other people and maybe narcotizing fascitis. That's why most "religious" people do stuff that would land them in hell- they just don't can't get scared of such bullshit as easily as 18th century puritans.

>>6334213
>To be fair he's not really wrong. It's possible something like chthulu exists and we don't know about it.
A lot of weird shit is posible, it's possible for me to slowly tortoure my friend next door to death over the next week and vice versa- but I doubt anyone spends time worrying about shit like that. The highly unlikely can be dismissed safely most of the time.

>>6334229
Indeed, but there's no real reason why it "can't" be so. I suppose that's the reason it might be scary, imagine your feelings if you do ever encounter something like that in reality.

>>6334242
I didn't say it wasn't scary- everyone tends to emphasize with characters and if they are terrified chances are you will be scared too. It just isn't scary on that utterly horrifying mindfuck level it was for people who seriously considered if Lovecraft was right.

Lovecraft is scary not in the traditional "OOGA BOOGA BOO" sense, but in the sense that the human race is tiny, insignificant and worthless in the grand scheme of things, that there are thing out there far greater then anything humans will ever even imagine.

That no matter what you do you will begin and end as a smattering of carbon on a speck of sand, unmourned and unknown, even if you avoid the thing that are actively trying to kill you.

and deep in your heart, you know it's true.

>there's no real reason why it "can't" be so.
Yes there is: Fucking logic. And the basics of Xenobiology, and Physics and Geology, and History, and Astronomy.

>>6334285
Sounds like reality to me

>>6334291
Suppose they're wrong. Suppose somewhere we made a bad assumption about reality.

>>6334291
>the basics of Xenobiology

Yeah that's got to be advanced considering we've never encountered any alien life form at all.

You're relying a tad too much on our current limited knowledge of things.

>>6334291
"Logic" doesn't enter into it. At least not pure logic.

Your assumptions are based only on empirical evidence.

>and deep in your heart, you know it's true.
On an metaphysical level it is. Though nothing to get down about. Most NEETs are insignificant to society as a whole- doesn't mean they must feel bad about it 24/7. That said- I vastly prefer Saya no Uta and such stories over the classic Slasher/Gorn bullshit nowadays.

>>6334295

Pretty much. Lovecraft just uses atmosphere and walls of prose to get you to pull back and look at how insignificant you are.

That scares me to death, so I try not to think about it too much.

>>6334242
>Indeed, but there's no real reason why it "can't" be so.
Devil's proof is a terrible argument, it leads nowhere.

>>6334320
It doesn't really scare me. I can't even comprehend what it actually is to have a meaningful existence. Even God would have no reason for existing.

>>6334320
>That scares me to death, so I try not to think about it too much.

I find it comforting. Nothing I do will ever matter, so why worry.

>>6334329
>We know everything about everything, there are no exceptions
So does that.

>>6334334
Good thing nobody's using it.

>>6334329
Nobody is saying "THERE ARE MONSTERS OUT THERE", they are just saying there might be 'monsters' out there. And that's likely.

>>6334329
It's "likely" that nothing of the sort is true, but still possible that it is in fact true. Why exactly is human knowledge the truth?

>"Logic" doesn't enter into it. At least not pure logic.

Yes it does. It enters into everything because it is what governs the world and us (even emotions are bio-chemical proceses based upon natural laws- which are consistent and therefore logical.) You can't exclude the possibility of Lovecraft being wrong but it is anything but logical to assume that means it is prudent to assume he is.

>Yeah that's got to be advanced considering we've never encountered any alien life form at all.
Yeah, but all life would be governed by chemistry and natural selection.

>Suppose they're wrong. Suppose somewhere we made a bad assumption about reality.

You're implying nihilism, and that wouldn't bring us anywhere. Existentialism and absurdism build upon that, true- but it is not where we should stop.

Lastly: Fuck it if there are Old Ones and they are coming to visit I'll put a bullet into my head. Problem solved.

>>6334338
The logical conclusion of "arguing that things that we don't know about could exist because our knowledge is limited = terrible argument, leads nowhere" would be "We know everything about everything, there are no exceptions"

So you are.

>>6334351
Pure logic would refer to formal logic probably. Stuff like implications and proofs etc.

>>6334351
My point is you can't argue by pure logic that things like that don't exist. You would have to use inductive reasoning.

>>6334354
No, I said that devil's proof is a terrible argument, not that it's not a valid one in the technical sense. The Beatrice pic should have tipped you off. Stop reading between non-existent lines.

>That scares me to death, so I try not to think about it too much.

Read The Myth of Sisyphus by Camus. Absurdism is after all the most appropriate reaction to existence ever devised by man and it's damn liberating in a special way, as someone before said:
>Nothing I do will ever matter, so why worry.

>>6334351
>it is what governs the world and us
>and us

That alone is exactly what makes us unfit to judge things about reality with 100% certainty.

>>6334372
But saying it's a terrible argument is almost akin to that.

We know so little about the universe, so why is it a bad argument to allow the possibility of things that we traditionally assign only to myths? That isn't terrible or absurd.

It gets more absurd as you pull it down to smaller scales, such as arguing that there is a hidden door in a room when we know the room quite well. You can't compare that room to the universe however.

>>6334320
Why be scared when it's such a great thing? Insignificance = freedom. Besides I don't think there's anyone on earth who wouldn't feel a little tinge of enjoyment if a real chthulu appeared.

>>6334395
I could start arguing that drinking bleach opens a portal to Gensokyo. I just don't see the point in doing so.

>>6334404
There is no actual point in doing anything.

>>6334404
There is no point in arguing it. The point is it "might" be possible. And that's basically a truth.

>>6334356
>Stuff like implications and proofs etc.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouFailLogicForever
Go read up a bit.

Ok:
Observation 1: we have never observed anything Lovecraftian in the universe.
Observation 2: We have observed an statistically not insignificant part of the universe.
Conlusion: There probably isn't anything like that out there. At least not somewhere it could reach us from.
Implication: We shouldn't worry about it too much.

Observation 1: Percentage of people eaten by Chutulu- 0%.
Conclusion: We shouldn't worry about it too much.

>>6334407
Doubly true in /jp/

>>6334408
Of course it "might" be possible, and that is most certainly a truth, but that's exactly the reason why it's so pointless. The Old Ones may or may not exist and we may or may not ever know for sure! Deep shit, man.

>The point is it "might" be possible. And that's basically a truth.

Occams razor, son. Go read about it.

I always, always think the doctor is Rin from Mnemosyne.

>>6334433
What part of "usually correct" don't you understand? It's not "always correct."

>>6334439
"The simplest explanation is usually the correct one" isn't Occam's razor. Go read about it, will you.

>>6334449
It's still not saying it's 100% correct.

>>6334439
Occams Razor: "The simplest theory which fits all available evidence is true."
The simplest theory which fits all available evidence about Old Ones is that they don't exist.

>>6334439
>What part of "usually correct" don't you understand?
Ok I'm not going to stand in for you Logic teacher, go ask him what you did wrong. Shifting The Burden Of Proof, Multiplying entities beyond necessity and confusing Sound, Valid and True.

I hate people who bring logic shit into things, we will never know something until we see it , thats all

>>6334472
Not "is true".

Um, I don't think the old ones were ever meant to be literal, just kind of... the embodiment of the uncaring, cold nature of the universe. Hell, the only creature that even has a "soul" in lovecraft's stories in Nyarly, who's pretty much what /jp/ would be like if they became a Lovecraftian monster.

So anyone worrying bout the old ones or whatever, really you'd be better off worrying about a bigass black hole coming to fuck your shit up (which would be pretty cool).

>>6334472
The world is flat was once the most simple theory.

Things like gravity and universes and orbits around the sun make things needlessly complicated.

>we will never know something until we see it , thats all
Ok, if you hate logic and reason so much, please hand over all your technological devices and go live in a cave eating berries, hunt your own food, wear reindeer skins and die at age 24 from influenza. Because that's what you would be doing if not for logic.
The whole point of arguments is to find out what is the most logic conclusion, there's no point in having one if not adhering to it.

>>6334485
Since you didn't understand it yet, Occam's razor isn't an infallible logical conclusion. It's a tool to make you think straight.

>>6334492
Stop using the word logic. Logic dictates that you don't know if it's true or not. Reason says it's likely not, but not logic.

>>6334497
That's my point. Not 100%, but you acted like >>6334439 was wrong.

>>6334492
Nobody is denying 'logic'. I don't think there are Lovecraftian monsters out there.

I am however open to the possibility that everything I know about reality and everything is in fact bullshit.

>>6334504
Yeah, because it is wrong. You were thinking about the common misquote instead of the actual Occam's razor.

>>6334519
Wasn't me, and you're assuming he was. The fact is that using that post against what occam's razor actually is basically works.

>>6334525
>Wasn't me
Sorry, can't tell you apart.
>and you're assuming he was
Naturally. Where in "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity" does it say anything about "usually correct" or "always correct"?

>Occam's razor isn't an infallible logical conclusion. It's a tool to make you think straight.
As such it is better to rely on it than on wild guesses. Just because it's usefulness isn't unlimited doesn't mean it's not superior to speculation or even invalid.

>>6334518
>I am however open to the possibility that everything I know about reality and everything is in fact bullshit.
I am not attacking that position. I am saying that it dosen't mean that:
>everything I know about reality and everything is in fact bullshit.
Just because it is possible. If we give the same weight and consideration to possibilities as to proven facts then we are introducing a caustic form of nihilism to our thought process.

Four Anonymouses and one namefag arguing about the nuances of logic is bound to be a clusterfuck.

>>6334546
I had fun. Going to sleep though.

Yesterdays argument about quantum physics on the Ever17 thread and now a chat a about Syllogisms and Occams razor on a Saya no Uta thread. Is it just me or is /jp/ turning more cerebral as time goes by.

I wonder how the plot would've gone if Saya was a big daddy shoggoth
>>6330106

One things for certain, you'd need a LOT more nitrogen...

>>6334536
My bad, guess I should've done more than wiki.

>>6334586
Just out of curiosity, where are you from and at what age are you taught this stuff in school? No offense but you (if you're who I think you are) seems to be lagging in it.

>I wonder how the plot would've gone if Saya was a big daddy shoggoth.
Where the fuck in metropolitan Tokyo would she be hiding.

>>6334610
I've never even heard of occam's razor before and took the wiki definition to be it:

"When competing hypotheses are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selection of the hypothesis that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities while still sufficiently answering the question."

And "recommends" would be a not 100% ie the post is still right anyways. In any case i'm 19 and school never bothered with this stuff.

>school never bothered with this stuff.
Ugh, this makes me rage. They pump you full of all kinds of unnecessary knowledge but don't bother to teach the basics or reasoning. I'm guessing you're from the USA. Here in Europe they force us to know all possible types of Syllogism and how to construct an argument and what pitfalls to avoid when doing so.
(Not bragging/saying we're better than you- but it's one of the few things I'm thankful for learning in school.)

>ie the post is still right anyways.
Right/True is not the same as Valid or Sound.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SoundValidTrue

>>6334632
south america. It's a good education system. Logic isn't necessary for personal development. I'm more glad they taught me science and language.

Besides, I don't think I'm wrong. This occam business doesn't change the fact that it is in fact possible for chthulu to exist without our knowledge. Now obviously I don't believe it does, but I do believe it's not completely impossible. That's all I've ever been saying here.

This thread went too niggers, here take a chill pill dawgs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_52667&v=OsaQlWTjg5Q

>>6334614
Shoggoths can survive in the arctic and were made to survive deep water environments, so idk maybe it goes and swims in some lake or goes to the ocean or something. Plus they're blobs and could fit through small spaces.

The potential H scenes would be hilarious though. Saya sure as hell wouldn't be a loli, that's for certain

>Logic isn't necessary for personal development.
And again no offense, but fuck, now I understand why your country is so fucked up in some respects.

>Besides, I don't think I'm wrong.
I never said what claim is wrong, I only said it was Unsound because your logic was flimsy/not argumented the right way.

>I'm more glad they taught me science and language.
Everyone is taught that. If it was up to me: you don't fucking graduate 'till you know the basics of how to do basic first aid, get quantum mechanics, statistics, logic, psychology, economics and fucking geography. It makes it harder for all kinds of assholes to manipulate you later on in life and makes the world a nicer place to live in for everyone.

>>6334644
SIPPIN MA MOE

Not everybody wants too, or has the time too learn all that shit.

>>6334638
>Logic isn't necessary for personal development.
That's like saying "hey a sense of perspective isn't necessary for painting." Sure, you could do some nice stuff without it, but sooner or later it will come back to bite you in the ass and prevent you from reaching your full potential.

But anyway enough of me, I'm off to play Chain - The Lost Footprints. Heard it's good.

>>6334664
>And again no offense, but fuck, now I understand why your country is so fucked up in some respects.
Just in case, I mean south america the continent. Not an area south in north america. And teaching logic isn't. I personally think that's something people should learn on their own.

>I only said it was Unsound because your logic was flimsy/not argumented the right way.

Not sure what's bad about it. If you mean the part where I talked without knowing what occam's razor really is then yeah, I was obviously off on that part. Otherwise...

>Everyone is taught that.
Not really. Well basic science yeah, but after that I could've just not done any of it.

I like to think about the possibility that the universe is a fundamentally illogical place.

>Not everyone has the time too learn all that shit.
Not trying to paint myself as something (a normalfag) I'm not, but:
I've got a job, go to college, play in a band, play 5 games, watch 10 movies, listen to countless hours of music a month and still have time to read a book once in a while.

The human condition, ife and the universe in which it all exists is stunning in it's magnificence and elegance, if it doesn't make you curious enough to learn about it then I really don't know.

>>6334664
I don't know how you learned all that shit without taking it in collage, but normally you don't learn any of that shit unless its in your major

>>6334687
Our existence is fundamentally meaningless but not illogical- it follows identifiable patterns and relationships. Knowing about them would be prudent since your whole existence is and will continue to be governed by them.

>>6334689
well thats nice and all, but not everybody is learning and taking the same classes as you. Most people wouldn't want too go near it unless they were interested in it. Like how im taking social studies classes because i like it, im not gonna take logic and quantum mechanics classes unless of course i want too some day.

>>6334700
Oh, I understand logic, and that the universe seems logical in most respects. I just like to think about the idea that it actually only seems logical to us and the reality is that it doesn't make any sense at all.

>>6334690
A classical Gymnasium. Kind of like a prep school or grammar school.

>>6334689
>The human condition, ife and the universe in which it all exists is stunning in it's magnificence and elegance

Not really. You can hype it all you want but some of us just have no interest in it. What do I care about science and reality and stars and whatever, when all I really need is simple peace?

>>6334687
I've thought about this a bit. It doesn't really seem possible. I mean no matter what, 1 + 1 = 2 will always be true, right? And a => a will always be true...is it possible for reality to actually have false logic?

>>6334719
I don't mean a failure of formal logic. I mean in the sense that we think we know how the world works, and everything obeys rules, and we've never seen anything to suggest that, say, conservation of momentum is violated, or that supernatural forces exist, or that putting a kettle on the stove won't cause it to boil, but despite all of this tomorrow you put a kettle on the stove and it explodes into frozen pieces, and then Cirno comes out and asks why you tried to melt her, and then you look up and realize that there are five suns in the sky, and also your shoes have turned into rabbits. Or something similarly utterly nonsensical.

>>6334713
>What do I care about science and reality and stars and whatever, when all I really need is simple peace?
Fair enough, that's a stance I can respect.
What I can't respect is someone who claims that everything that has had made our existence as peaceful as it is- is bullshit or "some elitist intellectual crap" while still enjoying all the benefits of said "crap."

>>6334737
That's called being plain fucking crazy.

>>6334632
>Here in Europe they force us to know all possible types of Syllogism and how to construct an argument and what pitfalls to avoid when doing so.

Netherlands here, above average education. They barely mentioned any of this and it certainly wasn't considered of any importance.

In fact all I really 'learned' at school was math when I think about it.

>>6334753
Sanity is overrated.

>>6334753
>everything that has had made our existence as peaceful as it is
>as peaceful as it is
You must be joking.
In fact, that's an argument for it all being bullshit. It doesn't really matter how much good they derive from it while they call it bullshit. Someone could inherit enough money to live forever from their parent's death and enjoy all of it, and still call it bullshit. Someone could hate the fact that they have to eat food despite any enjoyment and benefits they gain from eating food. Someone can live and call life crap while living.

>>6334758
I just assumed Gymnasiums all over Europe were like the ones from my country since they are a continental thing.

Lovecraft and saya are now crying in there graves about how logic boy has ruined there thread.

>>6334783
>there graves

Oh, rapture.

>>6334779
>Gymnasium

Never mind. Only a small % students score high enough in elementary to enter that level here.

>>6334787
wtf is a Gymnasium

>>6334775
Uh, yeah i guess you're right. Our forefathers had it much better: dying at age 35 from banal (for us) diseases, working for 12 hours straight, getting to fuck only one girl in their whole life, having no access the internet, video games, recorded music and only limited access to books, not being hungry and cold the best they could hope for if born into low classes. And God help them if they were gay or of a different skin color/religion than the people around them.

Yep, all the progress since then is clearly an illusion.

>Someone can live and call life crap while living.
So because it is possible to be negative about the best of lots in life- life is bullshit. Huh? Go fuck yourself you pessimist ungrateful little fuck. If it wasn't for the men better than you who dedicated themselves to progress you would have been spat out by society as a parasite if trying to life the "hard" life you live now.

I'm not really sure i get your point, becasue I'm not sure you even have one besides "ugh life is shit I hate it."

>>6334805
>getting to fuck only one girl in their whole life

And how is that a bad thing ? Humans aren't dogs.

>>6334792
An European prep school. Sort of.

>>6334805
Your argument is pointless, because you don't miss what you never had/know.

Back then nobody was enjoying a much better life (aside of course those who are rich like usual). To them a life like ours might sound like utopia. But like them we also have a different view of utopia.

It's not possible to be truly happy in life.

>>6334805
I'm saying it doesn't really matter how much benefits they get from something, people can still hate it. You claim it's good that people don't die at 35, but people still die. I can hate the fact that I will probably die in 80 years max despite the fact that my "forefathers" who I don't even have names for had it far worse. Hell, they might've been saying "Good thing we're not like flies and die in a week!". You're kind of stupid despite your logic.

>>6334811
>people aren't dogs.
Exactly, we like fucking lots of people and enjoy it on many levels so why not do it. Contraceptives and the abandonment of that whole "it's amoral if you're not married" are great news. I've yet to meet someone who disagrees.

>>6334825
>I've yet to meet someone who disagrees.

You must be new here.

>>6334825
Kill yourself.

>>6334818
>>6334822
What you are advocating is pure unadulterated nihilism. And it's silly.

As Vicor Hugo said:
"Man lives more by affirmation than by bread."

>>6334826
>>6334829
Come on, most people here may parrot 3DPD but it's out of frustration of not getting any, not because they hate the idea of sex.

>>6334837
No, I'm just saying people can hate life/reality/the universe/logic/science etc etc etc with valid reasons. You claiming it's "stunning" doesn't change that to some people, it's "bullshit".

>>6334825
>Contraceptives and the abandonment of that whole "it's amoral if you're not married" are great news
>/jp/

Im sorry to the person talking logic but I just don't agree with it, not that I hate it or look down on it, I just think it ruins a lot of the fun things in life and the crazy shit that people and you dream up. bottom line is , its fucking for people who are very logical and not for the crazy insane thinkers, who go off into adventures everyday in their head.

>>6334842
Anyone advocating casual sex is a son of a dog. They are the cancer killing this fucking world. Go back to wherever you came from.

Guys clam down, I think we are being trolled, someone report the thread, its not /jp/ related anymore.

>>6334848
>its [fucked] for people who are very logical
It's not, knowledge can be very reassuring and fulfilling. I'm sure you'll disagree since you probably advocate nihilist tendencies- but it works for a lot of people.

>and not for the crazy insane thinkers, who go off into adventures everyday in their head.
Stoners? crazy folks? retards? idiots? I don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about. If you mean thinkers like famous writers, artists, scientists and that stuff then you can damn bet that they we're ingeligent and reasonable. Even if you advocate the stance that life is absurd/bullshit then you still have to be smart to figure out exactly HOW bullshit it is. If you just mean people who have fun- don't see what point there is to that last part in "crazy insane thinkers."

>>6334857
Agreed, lets talk about something kawwaiii like this awesome blood-bed.

>>6334848

I suppose that's your decision, I for one would probably be happier without the knowledge that I'm an organic computer, bound by events far beyond my control to obey my programming because this is a logical universe, or to do things for no reason because this is an illogical universe, or apple page tutor wallsocket.

That's the one thing about being in a meaningless universe I like - You own your own head, and you can use it however you like.

>>6334871
wow calm down bro, you just don't get it.

Best part of the vn.

>>6334886
I liked the music in that part. Nice violin.

>>6334886
the art was pretty awesome, whos the artist?

>>6334884
Absurdism, seriously, read up on it. It's exactly what you're describing and I agree wholeheartedly with it. I just don't agree that meaningless = illogical.

>>6334885
"Nothing requires a greater effort of thought than arguments to justify the rule of non-thought."

This is leading nowhere. We agree to disagree to agree to disagree, or something like that. Let's agree to stop now, OK?

>>6330106
Really? One of the themes of SnU was vastly different perspectives. Fuminori sees a dream girl, while everyone else sees a monster. Fuminori is just trying to live with Saya in their fucked up world. He has to kill other humans for good food, and that makes him a monster as well in the eyes of everyone else. So, if animals were intelligent enough to realize we kill them for food, that'd make us the monsters, from their perspective. But to us, we're just trying to live comfortable lives.

See where I'm getting at? Even if others perceive her as a horrible monster, does that really matter? To Fuminori, normal humans were horrible looking creatures. It doesn't matter what they really were.

>>6334892
No idea, but if it helps the only artist I know for nitro+ is NiΘ. It might be him.

>>6334886
You've got to hand it to the man, I would have put a hole trough my skull about 3 hours after opening my eyes and seeing all that shit.

>>6334897
Yeah, but he was still a jerk. Remember how he treated Yoh. Normal folks don't go around torturing animals. To be fair tough he was probably completely insane before even seeing Saya for the first time.

I thought the main character just didn't have enough character development as the other guy. so thats one of the reason why i wound up not liking him as much.

>>6334910
I would've shut off all communications long before he did. Because I know I'd really want to kill Yoh eventually for being so nosy when I don't care about "her". I can hardly think of him as a jerk.

>>6333714
Fuminori wasn't a monster. His views of the world were grotesquely distorted, im sure if any of you had to live in a world of lovecraftian horror in every conceivable inch of everything--- covering every one of the five senses you have, you would be the same too.

Saya wasn't a monster either, if anything, she was the most "humane" out of all the characters even if she wasn't a human herself. The only "evil" thing about her is her physical appearance. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. She was always judged by her appearance, animals were shocked at the sights of her, humans tried to kill her out of fear. Even when she distorted the man's senses so that he would be nice to her and love her the way Fuminori did, she only got raped. But all she wanted was to be loved, then she found Fuminori, the one thing on the planet who didn't fear her or judge her based on her appearance, the ONLY thing that truly loved her, but even so, they never get to be with each other.

Out of all the characters, Dr. Tanbo had to be the most inhumane, narrow-minded, judgmental monster in the whole story. Dr. Tanbo wanted to kill saya because she was something different than her. She viewed saya as a monster based on what her physical appearance was, considering Saya a monster because she was an alien.

So ask yourself, Who's the REAL monster here?

>>6334910

Yoh was the big dick move for both of them - everything else is excusable as a msiunderstanding or lack of perspective, fuminori's messed up in the head, saya eats people because people don't like her to begin with and she was never taught not to, and Yoh and kouji were just concerned for a friend.

Depending on how much you connected with certain characters, it's either tragic as fuminori realises he can't connect with anyone else and loses his inhibitions, or it's the thing that finally pushes them over the edge into villian territory.

I found the story quite peaceful for Fuminori's side. He found something he wanted to live for and went with it. Well, I guess he didn't if you pick the other choice branch. I really can't see him as evil. One of the themes of the whole story was the uselessness of morals.

>His views of the world were grotesquely distorted, im sure if any of you had to live in a world of lovecraftian horror in every conceivable inch of everything.
I understand why he did what he did, still it doesn't make it any better.

>Out of all the characters, Dr. Tanbo had to be the most inhumane, narrow-minded, judgmental monster in the whole story. Dr. Tanbo wanted to kill saya because she was something different than her. She viewed saya as a monster based on what her physical appearance was, considering Saya a monster because she was an alien.

>So ask yourself, Who's the REAL monster here?

Still Saya. The doctor didn't want to kill her because she is different but because she want's to turn the whole world into something like her. Which would bring suffering to the whole world (as shown on Yoh's example) and Saya knew that and didn't care (again as shown on Yohs example.)

>Because I know I'd really want to kill Yoh eventually for being so nosy when I don't care about "her". I can hardly think of him as a jerk.

Everyone is a nosy/annoying sometimes, if that was reason enough to kill someone then no one would be alive. And even if she was "nosy"- she hardly deserved what happened to her.

>>6334871
>you probably advocate nihilist tendencies
OH SNAP

The novelty of diagnosing autism under non-professional circumstances on /jp/ wears off quickly, for obvious reasons. In comparison - this is good shit right here. Keep it up, man.

>>6334910
This was pretty much explained by Fuminori and Saya's interaction literally right before the ero scene. Anyone have screencaps? Particularly the one where Fuminori says something about how humans would fear and loathe such a horrible creature like Saya, but to him she was simply irresistible. I thought it was a really important quote.

>>6334949
Of course she didn't deserve it. But to Fuminori she did. Not Yoh the person, but Yoh the flesh beast.

>>6334932
Best and most unbiased post yet.
Though I'd have to say that that whole "turning the world into the same thing as Yoh was also a major dick-move and since Saya was planing that all along I didn't like her from the start.

>>6334950
I said forget about it, ok. Let's talk about the game or refrain from posting.

>>6334930
This is a message that the story gives off. For the human side, he's a hero, but if you look at things from Fuminori's side, she's a demon.

>>6334958

Assuming what happened with Yoh was also a learning experience, I doubt she'd go through with it if anyone else who she cared about would go through it.

>>6334949
The world was going to hunt them down and kill them regardless. It's a bit selfish, but they're just trying to be happy.

>>6334977
But we are all human. So I'm really surprised that many people sympathize more with Saya than with her. I guess it depends on how far you are willing to push your suspension of disbelief.

>>6334986
>The world was going to hunt them down and kill them regardless.
I doubt it. "If Saya came out and said: Hey I'm an alien, nice to meet you. I don't think people wouldn kill her."

I felt that Kouji was the one who truly deserved the most sympathy.
In Fuminori's case, he made a connection with something, monster or not, and somewhat saved his sanity in a way. He either dies, or is at least brought out of Saya's world.
In Kouji's case, there is nothing. His friends die, he witnesses Saya and all the research about her, and is completely alone. There is no one to confide in, and no one to talk to. In his last sane moments, both Fuminori and Saya crush that. The only thing that keeps him comfort is the thought of suicide.

>>6334989
Everyone turning into monsters could be a nice change of pace, in my opinion.

>>6334989
>But we're human
And we were shown the everyday lives of "monsters"

How they have to struggle to hide from us, how they have to endure hell on a daily basis to avoid conflict with us, how they just want to find happiness.

We're shown that from their perspective, humans are to them what our perspective makes them to us.

>>6335003

Kouji gets shafted in every ending.

Asylum: His Fiance is dead.

Bloom: He's dead

CoC reenactment: He's insane.

Poor guy didn't even do anything to deserve it.

That /v/ pic with the spider is perfect for this thread.

>>6335001
They don't speak Sayanese. They'd just hear

"Ŗ͇̞͖̫͇̜ͣ͛̌̓A̖̺̣̼̳̻̅ͩ͌̌̄͞V̠̝̂͑̑ͧ̚͘A̘̳̞͓̦̔̄ͭͣͭH̾D͂͆
͕̯̃̆V͖̤͚̝̑͜Ả͔̜̮̼̭̘̞̑̌̆ͭ́̿A̛͉S͔͈͐̊̿̎J̪̠͓̣ͪͤͦͩ̌̚͠D͚̓͋͟
̭̜̰͓̻̯ ͇̘̻͇̝͖͎͒ͮͧ̑L̻̫̦͋̋̇͒͂̌N͈͈͓͍͎͆D͓ͤ̇̍͂ͩ̉ͫ͠〒͍͙͓ͮB̷͓̞͕̻̖͙ ̯̮͙̣̆ͮͥ͛I̹̦͍͔̤͗͑̋̉ͅẂ̮̳͚̲̳̼͙Ḃ͒ͨͬ҉̲̥̥̩̪ ͔̜͓͍̪ͥ̃ͩͭ͘a̮̬̖͚̩̹̿̔͋̓̄̈́ͤ̕I̋̄̐̇̆̉̔͏̯̯͎̭͇̱Û̮̱̙͚͖͍͆ͮ̅ͤ
D̢̥͕̳͓̔̒̃̓́̄̅Ḣ̻ͧ̏ͭ ͉̯̙J͒͋͑̏N̮̪̆́ͥ̔̔ͅ♮͙̫̠̳̙̲̿̈́ͬ"

And be scared shitless. Fuminori would be imprisoned in his white little box, Saya would be captured for testing (if nobody assassinates her, that is). Their lives would be even more hellish than it already is. There's no way they'd be able to expose themselves to the world and live happy lives.

>>6335013

He also was the only human who truly sympathized with Fuminori, and genuinely felt sorry for him and wanted to help him.

>>6335013
Exactly. What the doctor said about the nightmares being poison to Kouji is pretty sad. Instead of being able to get over it one day, it will haunt him forever, growing more and more vivid. The scene with Kouji talking to her was pretty sad in retrospect too.

Exactly. What the doctor said about the nightmares being poison to Kouji is pretty sad. Instead of being able to get over it one day, it will haunt him forever, growing more and more vivid. The scene with Kouji talking to her was pretty sad in retrospect too.

>>6335009
Defending Saya on the grounds that she "is just doing what she must" but being unwilling to apply the same for humans (the Doctor does what she has to to save everyone she's ever known and loved from a horrible/painful fate) is simple hypocrisy.

>>6335003
>>6335013
Is it weird that i liked Kouji more as the main character, he just seemed more interesting and more believable.

>>6335013
Yeah. It's kinda sad, but it'd probably be better for him if he just died in the well.

>>6335041
No, I'm not saying that either. The point I'm making is both sides are the same. It's all a matter of perspective, which is a huge part of the story.

>>6335030
>They don't speak Sayanese. They'd just hear [...]

What about Fumiori translating? Most people agree that if meeting advanced aliens- then you should be nice to them. Also Saya could have just gone back to where she came from. If someone brakes into your home then it's not reasonable of them to expect you to move out or let them stay (while turning you into something horrible.)

>>6335049
>Out of all the characters, Dr. Tanbo had to be the most inhumane, narrow-minded, judgmental monster in the whole story.
I was talking to this guy. Or at least I've meant to.

>>6335033

I thought the crazy kouji end was the most Lovecraftian. I liked the quote at the end:

>What fool was it who said that men are the lords of Creation?
>Those who believe in the worth of meaningless things like human wisdom and valor――are those lucky people who have not looked into the Abyss.

Saya, in retrospect was probably the nicest shoggoth thing ever. She's also the wimpiest. Even a lowly thing like hastur could take a cosmic doodoo and accidentally the the whole human race, which may very well happen later on in the sayaverse.

>CoC reenactment:
CoC?

>>6335051
As far as I understand, mad scientist guy made a gate between dimensions, and got saya unexpectedly. I don't think he could've replicated it, and even if he did, she would just float in dimensionspace until someone made another gate, and we'd be back to square one. Assuming there's something to it and this one time wasn't just a statistically improabale fluke.

>>6335054
Yeah that definitely was. Everything else felt kinda normal.

>>6335058
call of chthulu probably

>>6335058

Call of Cthulhu RPG, Wherein a party of average joes investigate paranormal phenomena and try to kill shoggoths with dynamite before going insane.

It's a blast, but don't expect your characters to live.

>>6335051
Fuminori and Saya have both already killed. Even if they were doing it out of what they felt was self defense, I'm sure a majority of the people who would like peaceful relations would change their views from that alone.

Of course, this is all hypothetical crap. How do you think Fuminori would feel getting up on stage surrounding himself with monsters? He has a hard enough time understanding what his small group of friends are saying, imagine a rowdy crowd firing off questions. It'd look to him like they were all aggressive.

Just an assumption.

>>6335054
If Kouji still he the mad scientists notes though he could have proven easily to the whole world that he was telling the truth: There was something about Saya calculating some equations that take a lot of processing power and that she'd gotten far farther than any supercomputer. Also, the results were easily checkable- Just put that at the begining of your manuscript and every scientist in the world will listen.

>>6335003
I would say that he had a wider set of choices, and more chances not to involve himself with Fumi's condition, and later on Saya. On the other hand, no one had it easy. It wasn't problematic for no good reason. From my perspective, he did what he thought best in order to stay humane, but would even in the best outcome turn inhumane as a result of that very stance. Fuminori, under what circumstances could he stay humane? Pulling the trigger. It's a paradox either way, it's just that the latter is more glaring than the former.

>>6335054
>>6335054

"nicest shoggoth"

doesn't mean much

>>6335075
/jp/ would never play that, it requires interacting with other people.

I should know, I had a blast playing it with my friends.

>>6335075

>>>/tg/12541541

A thread of /tg/ related to CoC mostly, if you're interested.

The more i read this thread, the more I start to appreciate the game. It really goes into territory that isn't explored that often (not only plot, but also theme and style wise) and handles it very well and intelligently.

>>6335077

Fuminori is a faggot because he never tells anybody he sees everything messed up. if he can slightly understand words they say, then that's a bit of humanity for him to grab on to.

instead he turns batshit insane and becomes a murderer along with that savage monster, Saya

>>6335096
Yet, like >>6335031 said, he genuinely wanted to help Fuminori. He didn't want to run away and ignore his friends problems. There was no gain from him helping Fuminori, he did it because he was friend.

>>6335137
Yeah: "Hey I'm seeing all shit really messed up, maybe I'll try to get some medical help or just kill myself- nah to much hassle, I'll just go about helping an inter-dimensional monster turn the human race into what I see them to be."

I know it's not that simple, but still, he didn't really do the most reasonable thing.

>>6335043
Well, he is the Mary Sue of the story. Some people like Sue characters better. Of course he's more than that, but yeah.

>>6335102

Saya learned to mimic certain parts of human behavior, at the very least she spared one person.

A regular shoggoth is pretty much like a pissed off lion, except the size of an elephant.

>>6335137
That's just subjecting himself to the same torture he'd been trying to avoid, only with the added benefit of being experimented on ans possibly held against his will.

It would've been reasonable if there was a cure, but they had no idea why the urgery was messin people up - he probably would;ve gone insane faster, he even said so himself.

>if there was a cure, but they had no idea why the surgery was messing people up
Well, given the fact that he was probably the first such case he could have tried- maybe the cure was something really simple. And if you think about it- His sense of smell, hearing, taste and touch weren't really affected until he started seeing again (as he put it- the other senses followed the lead of his eyes:) Wouldn't it have been prudent to put on a eye bind till the doctors figure out what is wrong.

>>6335186

Im' pretty sure I read that the surgery had a history of doing it and tanbo specifically asked him if he was experiencing those symptoms, an was mildly surprised he was okay.

>>6335154

I believe to told the doctors what he saw after his first fit when his eyes were unwrapped.

All they did was tie him to a bed in the hospital.
He didn't tell anybody else because the first people he told treated him as a mental patient and didn't believe him. Hell, even after "recovering" he was forced to routinely go to the hospital and meet with a doctor to ensure his mental health wasn't deteriorating.

If the people at the hospital wouldn't believe him (mainly the neurosurgeon that is "perfect" and couldn't comprehend that the experimental surgery didn't go completely as planned), what makes you think he could convince somebody else?

So I'm fucking this adorable mute girl and suddenly she starts shrieking Tekeli-li! Tekeli-li! Tekeli-li! on climax and then for some reason I felt sticky and blacked out.

Shit was crazy man

>>6335204
Way to go faggot.

>>6335264
ancient /x/ pasta

First of all what are the chances of randomly getting a weird eye disease, and there being a Lovecraft monster around at the same time.

>>6335274
What is that /x/ place you... no, wait I don't give a fuck. I'm just here to talk about my favorite loli eldricht abominations.

>>6335337

-∞

>>6335342
You're the first ones the reptoids are going to anally probe.

>>6335337
I'm assuming saya/her "father" (forgot his name) had something to do with his problem.

>>6335386

His "scientific research" based on findings from Saya are what lead to the breakthrough surgery done to fuminori, yes.

And it wasn't a disease, Fuminori lost his eye sight (and probably a chunk or two of his skull) in the traffic accident.

Don't die.

>>6336272
Ok, then contribute.

>>6336378
Probably just bumping so decent threads don't go to waste due to that nuclear bomb faggotry.

>>6336401
This isn't a decent thread though..

>>6336427
Meh, had it's moments on and off for the last 8 hours. Time to go to sleep.

>>6334638
Sorry to drag this all the way back there, but you seem to have more or less wrapped up the Saya related discussion, so I'm just throwing this comment in and leaving.

>I do believe it's not completely impossible. That's all I've ever been saying here.

Statement A: "X might Y."
Assuming no previously established rules (e.g. maths), statement A is always true. It cannot be false due to the inherent nature of logic. There's no way to argue that something won't be/do something with 100% certainty.

However, the informational value of statement A is zero (0). It tells us absolutely nothing, because every X that might Y has the same 50% possibilty as X that might not Y. As a scientific, philosophical or logical argument - in fact, any kind of argument at all - it is on par with "albjsb,ouiqrb.mnvxbw".

Why anyone would care to ponder about "albjsb,ouiqrb.mnvxbw" is beyond me.