/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>6228214
also, since Sikieiki isn't a shinto god, I guess that means she can't die

but does she really have any power over the living?

>>6228224
You mean you aren't talking about danmaku?

Yuuka's ultimate magic is the ultimate magic because she can multiply herself without reducing the magic power usable by each multiplication, thus rendering her magic potentially infinite.

Other Touhous claiming to have the ultimate magic can probably have it through different logic without it being mutually exclusive with Yuuka's logic.

Higher than average, but not top-tier like Eirin. And yes, Eiki is in a higher league than the rest of them.

The ultimate magic is the ability to manipulate flowers.

You heard it here first.

>>6228236
So, wait... if Yuuka has the UM, what's the Grimoire of Alice?

>>6228235
I think that Eirin is definitely top tier also. But other people seem not to, for whatever reason.

She has to be the most powerful magic user in touhou. Her charm that seals the entire earth isn't even her most powerful spell, after all.

And she's the one who can make the hourai elixer, and she's immortal and has probably lived a good deal longer than any other touhou.

>>6228261
Same thing but instead of multiplying herself she does the same with dolls.

>>6228262
Well, she can only make the Hourai elixir with Kaguya's eternity manipulation, but, even though we never see her fight at full power, she did mentor the moonbitches after all. And she slaughtered several people sent to capture Kaguya, who I'm sure wielded powerful moon-tech stuff.

>>6228262
>Her charm that seals the entire earth isn't even her most powerful spell, after all.
Why do you say that all the time when we know exactly what her most powerful spell is?

>>6228271
Not what it does, I mean what happened physically? Alice had a spellbook in MS, Yuka took it, Alice still has a similar spellbook but Yuka doesn't show any?

I think Yuuka taking the UM must only be canon in Seihou.

Also, how is Alice Makaian if she's the Dollmaker of Bucharest?

There's that one powerlevel chart that has Yuka, Yukari, Flan, and Suika as S tier.

Do you guys think that Suika is S tier? And if she is, what about Yuugi and the other devas of the mountain?

>>6228299
Yuuka read the book = got ultimate magic
Yuuka has no more use for the book and gives it back.

>>6228299
How is Sakuya a maid if she is jack the ripper?

>>6228290
huh?

and what would her most powerful spell be. I don't recall any mention of it in IN.

>>6228309
Or:
Yuuka gets book and can't comprehend it. I'm using her lack of magical knowledge in MS ending for that as a source to speculate.

ZUN said you can only read the runes in a book if you have the same or superior magical knowledge. Yuuka can't even do simple spells in MS's ending.

>>6228299
how is flan known if shes un owen

>>6228307
ORT = VIVIT > Ado Edem > Sikieiki > Type Jupiter > EX-Yuka > Eirin = Type Saturn = Crimson Moon = Yorihime = Toyohime = Yukari > Type Pluto > Type Venus > Tenshi > Yuugi = Primate Murder > Original Roa > Angra Mainyu > Suika = Zelretch > Counter Guardian > Gilgamesh = Reimu = EX-Alice = Shinki > Arcueid > EX-Marisa = Flandre = Komachi = Dark Sakura > Dark Saber = Mokou = Kaguya > Ran = Yuyuko= Yuka > Lancelot = Saber = Remilia > Suwako = Kanako = Sigma > 5th Berserker = Roa Elesia = Utsuho = Mima = Gengetu > Dark Berserker = Iku = Yumemi > EX-Keine > Satori = Koishi = Marisa > 4th Caster > 4th Lancer > 5th Lancer = 5th Caster = Yumeko > Aya = Mugetu = Patchouli > 4th Rider > 5th Rider = Orin = Sakuya > Youmu = Alice = Mai > Nrvnqsr = Clairvoyant Fujino = Kurogiri = Reisen = Sanae > Tewi = Medicine > Yuki = Chiyuri > Elly > Lunasa > Merlin = Nitori = Archer > Kouma > 5th Assassin = 4th Assassin = Luize = Rikako > Lyrica > Kana = Keine = Lolice = Sara > Aoko = Barthomeloi = Kojirou = Ciel = "Ryougi Shiki" = Soren Araya Kurumi > Momiji = China >Ellen > Mystia = Chen > Gun God (Black Barrel) = Touko = El-Melloi = Night of Wallachia = Meira = Wriggle > Hina > Sion Tatari = Melty Blood Satsuki = R.Shiki = Akiha = Fujino = 18th Roa = Parsee > Kotohime > Flower Tank > SHIKI = Arba (potentially) = Heaven’s Feel Shirou = Kiri = Letty = Yamame > Koakuma > Nanaya = Reinforced Kuzuki = Sion = UBW Shirou = Waver = Bazett > Avenger = Rin = Cirno > Orange > Minoriko > Shizuha > Rumia = Kotomine = Zouken = Luvia > Kiritsugu = Irisviel > Maiya = Arba (usually) = Leysritt = Tsukihime Satsuki = Lio = Avalon Shirou = Sakura = Ilya = Kariya = Len > Kirie = Caren = Meruka > The Dead = Possessed Corpse = Azaka = Misayo = Dragon Tooth Warrior = Fuji-nee = Kisume > Lily > Daiyousei > Fake Shiki > Shinji = Ryuunosuke = Tomoe = Gun God (unequipped) = Hisui = Kohaku = Starsapphire = Lunachild = Sunnymilk

>>6228309
She does the multiplying thing in her second boss fight in Lotus Land Story, though, and shows no new abilities after Mystic Square (she manipulates flowers there), so...

>>6228324
Though she is clearly stated by ZUN to have it in SKG.

>>6228307

Even though Yuugi is usually "the strong", of the two Suika is the brute while Yuugi has all the hocus pocus.
The deva are probably equal or close, only with different approaches.

>>6228330
That's like having a book in a language you can't read. She probably gave it back out of boredom or threw it away and Alice picked it up. That's my theory at least.

>>6228341
But SKG takes place long after PoFV.

>>6228331
>Suika is the brute while Yuugi has all the hocus pocus

my thoughts exactly. "supernatural phenomenon" and whatnot

>>6228307
this?

>Powerlevels
Inb4 shitstorm

>>6228358

That's very nice, but... is that a trollface on EX-Keine there?

Think this chart puts Keine's history altering ability way higher on the food chain than even her most obsessive fans usually accept.

>>6228358
That's so fucking wrong.
>>6228343
SKG is not official touhou canon. You can use that to speculate, but it's different games. I don't consider SKG as canon for Touhou at least. Anyways, this is a subject that will never have a definitive "conclusion", that would ruin the "nothing determined" appeal of touhou.

>>6228358
yup

for the most part I agree with it, except for Eirin's placement

she should definitely be S rank

if that chart included Kanako and Suwako, I'd have to put them at the A rank

and maybe Suika and Yuugi should go there too

>>6228382
History > Density.

>>6228331
If you go by their spellcards (StB, SA, most notably DS, fighting games), Yuugi is more about brute strength than Suika (unless Suika becomes a giant).
Ultimate magic is just.... moe.

>>6228321
Many characters can multiply (Yuuka, Parsee, Marisa (seihou), all kami).

>>6228385
>I think Yuuka taking the UM must only be canon in Seihou.

Eirin is always underrated in powerlevel threads, I would put her close, if not equal, to Yukari.

>>6228361
I've never seen an uncivil power levels discussion that wasn't about moonbitches so I don't see your point.

>>6228382
Well, I can't read moonrunes but I think EX-keine and Reimu might be places outside the pyramid because the nature of their powers make it hard to rank them. e.g, Reimu should be weaker than most youkai but she has the power to summon gods and routinely kicks their asses in the games.

>>6228393
That's not what I meant at all. Nice greentext by the way.

>>6228395
Shiki can kill servants.

>>6228399
I'm quoting myself to say that I agree with you already.

>>6228386
Eirin is extremely intelligent and powerful but I think she belongs in A-tier. Sure, she can make all kinds of potions, the hourai elixir and whatnot but that wouldn't be much help in a battle against, say, Yukari who can control physical and abstract borders. Also, Suika belongs in S-tier in my opinion since she is not only physically strong enough to shatter the moon but she can also manipulate the basic properties of matter (its mass and volume)

>>6228400
http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/116382

Also Left > Right
weird for the artist to put Yuyuko to the left of Eiki.
C ranges from stage 4 boss to small fry, he could have made a D instead and rearrange B and C to B, C, D.

from Aya's Yukari interview:

>By following my will, shikigami can achieve power equal to my level. Therefore, if she properly follows my orders, it would be impossible for her to lose. If she takes selfish actions, her power will be weakened to something that can't even be compared to mine.

I think people often forget how strong Ran can be, as long as she's obedient or whatever.

And by extension, how strong Chen could be too. Except she's canonically not very obedient at all.

>>6228434
Eirin is canonically stronger than Kaguya, so if Kaguya's A-tier...

>>6228434
>physically strong enough to shatter the moon
Stop that shit already. We know that she's physically strong enough to destroy a mountain (because she said so), but not the moon.

strudal occurs

>>6228434
>she is not only physically strong enough to shatter the moon

she didn't shatter the moon. she shattered the sky like a pane of glass, making it look like the moon was broken

which is completely badass and even more cool than shattering the moon

>>6228446
See >>6228440
That's the reason Eirin is the first place in A-tier. She's the most powerful in that tier but still is no match for S-tier touhous. I'm not very sure about Flandre, though. I mean, it makes sense for her to be S-tier since she's so powerful she has to be contained by the rest of the SDM but I'm not sure just HOW strong she is compared to the rest of the S-tier touhous.

>Captcha: misrated drefic

>>6228468
Flandre could be interpreted as being as powerful as Void Shiki.

>>6228454
It happens in Bohemian Archive. She destroys the moon by shattering the sky. I'm not sure how canon that is, though.

>>6228468
dammit she's not being contained by anyone in SDM

she sits in the basement by her own choosing, because she's crazy. it's canon!

>>6228481
it's 100% canon, ZUN wrote everything in those books

>>6228482
I meant "contained" as in, it's better for the rest of the world if she stays in that basement. I didn't mean they literally kept her chained there (it's debetable if that would be even possible).

>>6228481
see >>6228456 . She didn't destroy anything.
>>6228482
>she sits in the basement by her own choosing, because she's crazy
I laughed. Sounds like /jp/.

>>6228502
We both said the same thing: she shattered the sky. Now, you're not going to tell me that shattering the sky is less impressive (and S-tier worthy) than destroying the moon, are you?

>>6228507
Yes I am. Destroying the moon couldn't be contained in those tiers if "shattering the sky" is already S tier.

Now what I find odd that no one mentioned yet is, why is Yamaxanadu rated as stronger than Mokou and Kaguya (she's at their left)?

>>6228518
Because they are about to mention that she's, for some reason, not above Yukari.

>>6228519
>Destroying the moon couldn't be contained in those tiers if "shattering the sky" is already S tier
That's the point of S tier: the h4xest powers, no matter what they are, go there. Also, actually destroying the moon would be awesome but wouldn't be enough to put Suika above Yukari or Yuuka so the rating is okay.

So... would Cirno be stronger than Rumia and Wriggle?

It says somehwere in one of ZUN's books that she's pretty strong for a fairy, stronger than her other fairy friends put together

Yes

>>6228587
You know, now that you mention it, she should be at the top of the 9 tier since her power (controlling cold) is at least stronger than controlling darkness or insects. Maybe it's just because she's too much of a moron to actually be as powerful as she should.

>>6228577
You mean Saxton Hale isn't above Yukari or Yuka?

>>6228587
She can take on Marisa and lose only after 10 spellcards.
She's stronger than most stage 1 bosses. I only really can't say that she's stronger than Letty.

I then I barge in and negate any and all of their magical, youkai hax with my own hax.

>>6228638
Marisa was using spell cards like Light Blast "Shoot the Little Moon" and Love Sign "Master Spark-like Flashlight." That doesn't count.

She does admit that Cirno is ridiculously powerful for a fairy (considering that most faeries get plowed through by the hundreds no problem) and that she could cause trouble even if she had been going all-out, though.

By pure power levels she should easily be at the top of ⑨ is not mid-C but really, she has to stay in ⑨ tier just because.

>>6228704
I don't know how his ability works since I don't read/watch that franchise, but if I understand that correctly, Meiling still beats him.

>>6228618
Saxton Hale would beat up all the touhous and then sell thier hats

After all, touhous are a lot like hippies

>>6228720
I checked your and my post and confirmed the character placement in the picture again and came to the conclusion that we both agree with each other.

>>6228743
Hooray!

>>6228385
Why wouldn't it? ZUN's already linked the Seihou series to the Touhou series by referring to events in Mystic Square in Yuuka's profile.

Unless you're ready to argue that PC-98 canon is separate from Windows canon?

>>6228722
Couldn't he kill her just by touching her anyway?

>>6229194
Still different games. That's like putting a bunch of characters from different series in a different universe in a fighting game and then make 2 characters from the same series fight each other. With your logic, their fight would be canon for their respective series, and that's wrong.

bump

>>6229237

She takes blades to the brain like nothing. China is an utter bitch to kill.