/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Handwave to bypass red: "there is no such person as Kanon, so there's no way to mistake someone for him".

>>6165145
But Gohda thinks there is, therefore he can mistake someone for him.

This is still a huge obstacle in the way of your thinking when you try to solve the story through ShKanon. Bypassing this pretty much means 'this doesn't matter, it's Shkanon anyway', which is witch on head retarded unless you actually already know about it.

Also, there definetely is a 'person' named that. A peson, mind you.

I still think it's not "personalities solution".
Yasu wrote the bottle letters while thinking she would have been both Shannon and Kanon. Featherine based her own episodes on the bottle letters. Yasu said her/himself she was just CONSCIOUSLY pretending to have all the imaginary friends before becoming Beatrice. Nowhere does crossdressing or DID figure into this. They were just characters in a story, everyone just sort of forgot we were reading the bottle letters, and not the actual depiction of events.

>>6165156

>But Gohda thinks there is,

DO NOT BELIEVE GOHDA'S LIES

>>6165162
Gohda's notes is Gohda's first detective novel try.

He wrote the bottle letters for Yasu and made himself the possible great mastermind.

>>6165165
>Gohda's notes is Gohda's first detective novel try.

wat

>>6165187
-------------------------------------------------------->
/
the joke you

Because personality is what defines a person (see Maria and Rosa, ep6, Will's explanation about Maria and Beatrice in ep7), when Beatrice acts like Kanon - she's Kanon-person, therefore they definitely wouldn't mistake anyone else for Kanon.

Or there's a simpler explanation for this, concrete situation. They wouldn't mistake anyone else for Kanon, but they could lie about it.

>>6165197
Obviously, but that requies everyone to know about her schisophrenia, including George and Gohda. When Kanon is dressed as Kanon and goes to any other state that Kanon while those two are around, someone is instantly being mistaken for him.

>Maria and Rosa, ep6, Will's explanation about Maria and Beatrice in ep7
Yeah, that's the point where I could finally stop complaining about 'fucking ShKanon, how does she work.'

/r/ all umineko tarot cards analogies

>>6165209
>Obviously, but that requies everyone to know about her schisophrenia, including George and Gohda.
Not necessary. First of all, there's probably no schizophrenia. Second, maybe it's just the rule she set for understanding her mystery, her heart. In the context of her novels and her world view it's true, therefore it becomes true and natural for the characters in her novels too.

>>6165216
http://umineko.tv/web/main/special/tarot_card.html
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=tarot+meaning

I still believe Kanon is actually based on some kid from the orphanage

>>6165216
Off the top of my head:

Rosa: The Fool. That means, that she has a great potential but is worthless if she doesn't use it, and that is not very propable. This card is almost always negative, but if it isn't, it pierces the Heavens.
Maria: The Mage. First step on the long road. Means she is above any Fool.
Kyrie: The High Priestess. Guarding a certain secret that does not exactly concern her, but is to be guarded well. The secret is propably something metaphysical.
Natsuhi and Eva: The Empress. For one, it is a mother card. It also has the meaning of "guarding the honor". If the card has a bad meaning, though, she ends up being just a scapegoat to almost everyone.
Shannon and George: The Lovers. A card of 'forming a bond'. If he doesn't abandon his mother and if she doesn't abandon her father, it is never formed and ends up just a waste of time.
Stakes: The Chariot. A card of some wild and unsettling conflict.
Amakusa: Strength. A card of a conflict, but it's internal. If it's negative, it's just withstanding the pain dully without ever facing the cause.

>>6165306
Bern and Lambda: Wheel of Fortune. Provides many chances, and if those are taken positively, it means an overlooking wiew. If they are taken negatively, it means some higher power fucking around in Macbethish way.
Battler(note Amakusa's clothes'): Justice. If positive, it is a 'solution'. If negative, it is just an opinion.
Kanon: The Hanged Man. A twisted person with an actually correct point of wiew, given the situation is twisted. If negative, he is just some emo faggot.
Evatrice: Death. A drastic change. If positive, it's replacement of old by new, if negative, it's something not going as keikaku'd, or end of something.
Jessica: The Moon. A one final lie you have to overcome to satisfy your life. It is, in fact, a lie of such epic proportions that the most correct way of handling it is to accept it.
Beatrice: The World. The final card, meaning the coexistence of freedom and rules. Note that the card is comonly composed as a mandala and the middle is the core of the world - usually Buddha, Taijitu, Pieta or whatever you want. On this card the thing in the center is the Bluebird of Happiness inside the cage. Go figure.

>>6165309
>>6165306
The others I can't remember and don't want to bother looking up. But I know what Star is and I'd say Gaap is way off.

>>6165306
>>6165309
A lot of those turned out to be true after the card came out.

Particularily Lovers and Empress

>>6165306
>Kyrie: The High Priestess. Guarding a certain secret that does not exactly concern her, but is to be guarded well. The secret is propably something metaphysical.
>Guarding a certain secret that does not exactly concern her

Guarding what secret exactly? Possible forshadowing for things to expect in EP8?

>Natsuhi and Eva: The Empress. For one, it is a mother card. It also has the meaning of "guarding the honor". If the card has a bad meaning, though, she ends up being just a scapegoat to almost everyone

Fits both perfectly. The Good meaning for Natsuhi and the Bad meaning for Eva sadly...

>>6165309
>Jessica: The Moon. A one final lie you have to overcome to satisfy your life. It is, in fact, a lie of such epic proportions that the most correct way of handling it is to accept it.

Now that's suspicious.

>>6165353
Negative meaning fits both, if you take Ep5 into account.
Also in before fucking Moon-chan in Ep8

>>6165332
Shannon(Yasu?): Temperance. Means not only calmness but also synthesis. Also, lower spheres of consciousness.
>In the Rider-Waite-Smith deck, the Sun in the background conceals a crown. That crown is the ego, who has died and is at the cusp of the adventures of the night.

God fucking damnit.

Also, Hierophant is someone who explains higher-order stuff to lower order beings(that's Ange). I still have no clue as for what Maria being The Sun and Nanjo being The Star could mean.

>>6165306

>Shannon and George: The Lovers. A card of 'forming a bond'. If he doesn't abandon his mother and if she doesn't abandon her father, it is never formed and ends up just a waste of time.

Holy shit. This is so accurate it's almost suspiscious. Do you think Ryukishi purposely chose which character gets which Tarot card?

Also:

Shanon got temperance
Siesta's got Judgement
Ange got the Heirophant
Virgilia's got The hermit
Ronove's got the Devil
and Maria (not Lady MARIA) got the sun

>>6165371
>Also in before fucking Moon-chan in Ep8

That would somewhat explain the whole " Guarding a certain secret that does not exactly concern her, but is to be guarded well" bit from Kyrie's tarot meaning. But really how possible is Jessica being even close to a culprit/mastermind/etc? I think it's for something else entirely.

>>6165393
It could be she solved the epitaph before everyone else and got in on Yasu's existance

>>6165365
to be exact, it's the stuff about the moon on the water being an reflection. If I remember correctly, because the moon is much more segmented by the waves that Sun is in the day. That gives you a hint about that second thingy being something a lot different than Sun. Now let's say you are a philosopher or an mathematican in ancient Greece or Egypt and by measuring stuff and reading the movements of heavenly bodies you come to realize, what the moon actually is. Do you tell people "HEY GUYS THAT LITTLE THINGY UP THERE IS ACTUALLY A FUCKING HUGE LUMP OF STONE"? Why not just go along with it being god creator's poop like everyone else believes? You wont explain it to others anyway.

>>6165371
>>6165393
>>6165399
For fuck's sake.

>>6165399
OP here.
pic filename related.

I guess Rudolf will get his card someday.

>>6165399

It's possible, Kyrie's intelligent so it woudn't be impossible for her to solve it by herself. And one of the good things about her finding out about Yasu's existance is that atleast 1 person is not fooled with Yasu's crossdressing. Though I'm not sure how she can find out the whole product of incest, Battler liking thing and etc unless she had contact with Yasu in some sort beforehand.

>>6165414

What do you think he's tarot card would be if he would (I doubt it)

The only card left is The Emperor:
>The Emperor symbolizes the desire to rule over one's surroundings, and its appearance in a reading often suggests that the subject needs to accept that some things may not be controllable, and others may not benefit from being controlled.

It fits Kinzo, in my opinion.

>>6165422
You see, there's only 'emperor' left.

Weird. As far as I can remember, The Tower is the biggest fuckup/misfortune ever. And it's four elder stakes.

>>6165429

Doesn't really fit him. Sorry I guess he wont get a tarot card. Like Hideyoshi (Poor guy no one even remember he exists) and Krauss

>>6165435

I don't know how it fits them honestly.

>>6165435
brace for heart rending Stake bullying flashback in ep8

>>6165410
Nice.
The Tower is a very hard experience which can make you a bit stronger or completely break you down. A painful card.
The Sun is pure and happy, positive, if negative, then hyperactive and annoying as nothing else. Also, the negative meaning of Mage is that he is arrogant and full of himself after just the first step.
The Judgement is salvation or hope, possibly by purging everything focefully. Being so sudden, you can't tell how much you will lose when it comes to you, but supposedly only good things will remain.
The Devil is some controller, or better yet, an actor who plays along with other actors, but follows his own objectives. Now that I think of it, it fits Genji rather well.
The Hermit is a philosopher who thinks a lot by himself. If negative, he is overly concerned by his secrets and forgets that he is meant to teach people what he knows.

The missing part is The Emperor, being a father figure, a bit of an egoistic authority, someone who is in control.
I'd say Kinzo, but the guy on this card should be, well, sane.

Is it just me or does the Ronove as Devil with those Beato/Battler dolls seem awfully ominous?

If I don't remember incorrectly the Sun represents perfection and it's the strongest good tarot. Brb looking it up

> Glory, gain, triumph, pleasure, truth, success. As the moon symbolized inspiration from the unconscious, from dreams, this card symbolizes discoveries made fully conscious and wide awake.
> This card is generally considered positive. It is said to reflect happiness and contentment, vitality, self-confidence and success.
Sometimes referred to as the best card in Tarot, it represents good things and positive outcomes to current struggles.

And it's also linked to the Fool, so Maria will have a key role? uu! I think I got it this tarot too once!!

>>6165435
>>6165442
This is how I read it:
Chariot - three stakes - three who married into family representing their sins respecrfully (Asmo = Kyrie = Yandere; Belze = Hideyoshi = FAT; Mammon = Natsuhi = Honor? BS. WE NEED MONEY)
Tower = Those who cause tragedy if shit goes wrong: Pride(Krauss), Jealousy(Eva), Sloth(Rudolph), Wrath(Rosa). Wrath and Sloth should be reverse though but it doesn't fit the siblings then so meh.


This doesn't conflict with the single representative cards, since only a collection of individuals creates a single card this time.

>>6165467

No I think Kyrie should be Leviathan (i.e Envy). I mean she has envy power levels for goodness sake! Leviathan is the stake she fights agaist.

Rosa is more suited for lust considering her strong desires to find "Love" with men.

>>6165480
Rudolf is more appropiated for Lust. Damn, he impregnated two fucking women at the same time.

>>6165485

It's even "implied" in the "Labor Thanksgiving Day Gifts" TIP that he stils go cheathing/flirting around with women. HA! Kyrie really is the perfect wife to put him in place. I will not feel sorry for him when she eventually slice his balls off.

>>6165455
Actually, interesting. Lucifer, Leviathan, Satan and Belphegor maids were the first generation of servants working with Yasu. After they quit after 2-3 years, there were Mamon, Beelzebub and Asmadeus maids. During that time Yasu became Beatrice.

I still don't get how is Nanjo The Star.
Optimism, trust, and calm, good will?

>He/she is dead. Also I have diabetes.
Then again, Nanjo never lying about his diagnosis could be an awesome troll, but in E1 it's hard to pass it anyhow else...

>>6165497
How the fuck Nanjo is the star? Gaap isn't a representation of any human character. She's just the original 'witch of the island' Yasu invented.

>>6165485

True but atleast he has stopped being a gigantic womaniser (at least from what we know...). Rosa constantly tries to look for men to be in a relationship with, she doesn this to a point that she brushes her daughter aside (leaving her alone for days) and almost values getting a man more than she values her daughter.

>>6165497
Gaap is not Nanjo

Can you people tell why is are you saying Nanjo is the Star? I'm seriously missing something here. Since when is Nanjo=Gaap? Especially after Ep7.

>>6165507

You'd think this fact would have been made clear in EP7

>>6165504
Rosa is a lonely and pathetic woman with horrible complexes because of her horrible childhood. Rudolph has a family, one women that loved him and another one who is still completely obsessed with him and still can't stop.
Rosa is desperate to find just one man to love her. Rudolph can't get enough women to satisfy him/

>>6165519

Good point.

>>6165519

Kyrie never loved Ludolf, just the Ushiromiya nazi gold.

>>6165537
You lack love. Wait until EP8.

>>6165537
Silly anon. There is no one bad on the island.

>>6165537

Oh dear taking the EP7 truth literally. Then lets throw all the stuff she said in EP3 and EP6 down the drain. and the stuff she wrote on her diary that Ange found.

Lets face it that scene where she says that stuff to Eva is a signal not to take it face value.

>>6165537
She would have finished him herself then.
Also, you don't understand shit about Umineko and its characters.

>>6165537
>Kyrie never loved Ludolf,
except even EP7 clearly says she does, maybe even too much

OP, this picture might help you with solving umineko

>>6165548
>She would have finished him herself then.

Exactly! She doesn't freaking need Rudolf to kill the rest of the family she is very much capable to doing that heself. Even with her bare hands (Right Jessica?) she's the one who killed the most people in the Tea party.

Wait until EP8 where Kyrie is Batman and Eva becomes the Joker.

>>6165561
Anges reaction

>>6165552
>except even EP7 clearly says she does, maybe even too much

May I ask out of curiousity which scene she says this?

>>6165567
>Wait until EP8 where Kyrie is Batman and Eva becomes the Joker.

Don't you mean Kyrie is Batman in disguise along with Eva still being Batman

>>6165570
Her whole talk about how a children for her is just a way to "chain" the man she loves? About how she'll maybe fall in love "again" after Rudolph dies?
It's not the more common definition of the word, ok, but saying she doesn't love him after all the "jealousy hell" talk shoved down your throat is a bit stupid.

>>6165570
Maybe the same scene you're thinking about? She doesn't say "lol, I don't love him", she says that she needed a good man, needed her love, she even ready to tolerate kids if it means looking a good mother and being a family (if you want to accept her words literally). She's just a rational person, not some emo-faggot, therefore now, when Rudolf is dead, there's no point in crying for him, but point in finishing the business and moving on.

>>6165575
Rokkenjima, where half the people are Batman and another half are Yasu.

The thing that really bugged about the Kyrie we were shown in Ep7 is that..it wasnt rational. Kyrie is portrayed since Ep1 as the most rational and calculative person on the island and then her motive is "SHIT HIT THE FAN LETS KILL EVERYONE THE EXPLOSION THAT I JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT WILL HIDE EVRYTHING!".

That. Doesnt. Make. Sense.

And then the whole Will and the Heart ramblings. And the very last scene.

Enjoy Kyrie plotting everything to save Ange after the Sumadera is pissed off because Kinzo died and thus wont pay what he said he would pay for having Kyrie marry into the family. Ange not coming was purposefull, she is held hostage.

Was it ever stated why Kyrie/Rudolf even really needed that fast sum of money anyway?

>>6165552

Not at all, read the episode yourself instead of believing random internet posts.

Am I the only one who hates Kyrie?

I can't stand her since EP1. Don't ask me why.

>>6165591

She's a person with no morales seeing a way to get tons of gold in a very fast way, and nobody would ever discover her crimes. Makes perfect sense.

>>6165591
Hey, it's my theory.

Rudolf needs money because of his company and some copyright issues in America.

>>6165591
>Enjoy Kyrie plotting everything to save Ange after the Sumadera is pissed off because Kinzo died and thus wont pay what he said he would pay for having Kyrie marry into the family. Ange not coming was purposefull, she is held hostage.

Honestly this is far better than "LOLMONEY LETS GO ON A KILLING RAMPAGE YEEEAAAH ANGE IS A SHITTY BRAT!!!!!"

>>6165599
I dont need to ask you why. It's because you're an autist faggot.

>>6165597
It's you who must read it, faggot.

>>6165599

uuhhhh. Everyone pretty much hates Kyrie thanks to EP7. So you're not alone there.

I personally don't hate kyrie but thats me

>>6165591
>Ange not coming was purposefull, she is held hostage

I thought Kyrie was on good terms with her father.

>>6165591
Will's THE HEART makes me doubt everything about Ep7. Kyrie doesn't seem like a person to go trigger happy all of a sudden, she'd be more subtle if anything, she would kill everyone without putting her own and Rudolph's life on the line. If Kyrie decided to kill, it'd be like Ep1, that's how I see her.
And another culprit we got is Yasu, that supposedly kills people in other scenarios. And well she lacks a proper motive as well. The only motives she has that weren't denied in red include her being either delusional beyond all hope or retarded (or both). And that's not what I call a proper motive, and I surely hope Ryu doesn't as well.

>>6165614

Yeah. Only her father though and since he was banished (to that effect) from Kyrie's mom I don't think he has much power in the family

>>6165614
You don't really need to chain a kid in order for it to be a kidnapping or a threat of it.

I havent been around much so I'm not sure if this has been said, probably has though. But I just realized what the EVA-Beatrice/ANGE-Beatrice meant. It was so fucking obvious.

Beatrice is the guardian of the secret of what happened in Rokkenjima. Eva lives, now she is the guardian. Ange finds the truth, she is the last Witch of Rokkenjima.

Thats also why EVAtrice was portrayed as an evil character, she only knew the ugly part of the truth i.e. Kyrie killing children and all that. She represented only the gruesome truth.

So Ep8, Ange finds the truth of Rokkenjima and either a)comes to peace with the truth or b)throws herself off a skyscrapper going burger on the floor.

What I really dont like about it is that I see no other way of her finding the truth but Battler telling her. Like in Ep7 last scene. I dont like Battler as Amakusa for some reason.

>>6165585
>She's just a rational person, not some emo-faggot, therefore now, when Rudolf is dead, there's no point in crying for him, but point in finishing the business and moving on.

So Basically Kyrie is a robot. Great.

>>6165622
>>6165620
Note to that, I think that it was said in the question arcs that Ange is lying sick 'at the grandfather's house'.
I think I did hear it somewhere at the time.

>>6165569
Oh, did that god-tier Umineko fanartist lurking around here just present me with his sketch? If so, I can't even manage to express the honor I feel.

>>6165635
That's called pragmatism.

>>6165636
Its from a short story made by him. I'll post the rest.

>>6165603
Kyrie & Rudolf are being threatened by the Sumadera family for protecting Ange from Kinzo but Natsuhi must hide him. This escalate into a murder or Ange would die. Battler was there as a proof of good will (?). Kyrie asks someone to dress into a witch so that the kids don't have to know they died because of their own family? She also wrote the fake stories and sent them into the sea. Which is why that when you know the real story you can forge one since it can only be a good thing. I get the feeling that the family of the people working for Ushiromiya's family could easily fit into this. They were threated to not take the money by the Sumada family or something? I like the sound of this.

>>6165638

>>6165641

>>6165633
>Beatrice is the guardian of the secret of what happened in Rokkenjima.
What? No. Beatrice is created by the gold. EP7 outright tells us this.

>>6165642
The first and last pages are the ones already posted before.

>>6165633
And yet, it makes such perfect sense. He won't tell her because he doesn't feel like she can take it, just like Eva. She obviously had to know who he is all along. He is something like Robin finishing Batman's job. But if not knowing what was up at that day can save her from being emental'd by Kasumi, well, there goes Amakusa's tarot card.

Furthermore, too much proof for it, including two independent puns in his name and one major misspeak, which would instantly reveal his detective novel powerlevel covered by "Lolbooks, I don't read them". In both 1986 and 1998.

>>I dont like Battler as Amakusa for some reason.
Probably because it's a dick move on Battler's part. 'Hah, I forsook my family responsibilities and left you with the burden as I learned how to use guns and shit.'

>>She's just a rational person, not some emo-faggot, therefore now, when Rudolf is dead, there's no point in crying for him, but point in finishing the business and moving on.

Really? The same 'YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT ENVY!' Kyrie who is implied to have had a hand in Asumu's death? (the whole 'magic can only do things you're able to do yourself' thing is heavily suggested there.)

>>6165643

The Beatrice in the meta-world is the personification of the rules and secrets. In other words, the guardian of what happened. At least thats how I see it.

She obviously had to know who he is all along. He is something like Robin finishing Batman's job.

The thing I don't get is how does Hachijou Tohya => Ushiromiya Asumu fit in?

>>6165643
Beatrice is created by Yasu's fantasy, for fuck's sake. Gold just gave her the real power, power in the real world. It made her the "real" witch.

>>6165651
That's great for a theory, but that's not how it actually works. Becoming Beatrice is tied to the gold. Eva is allowed to call herself Beatrice after solving the epitaph and gaining the gold, likewise, Ange inherits the name of Beatrice after Eva leaves her the gold. They're both Golden Witches, not Endless Witches.

>>6165656
>The thing I don't get is how does Hachijou Tohya => Ushiromiya Asumu fit in?

It doesn't. The theory was only born thanks to their names. Seriously this theory is even worse than that Battler=Amasuka one

>>6165659
That's what I was talking about. The gold is the same as "magic". Yasu acknowledges that she was playing at being Beatrice before, but finding the gold actually made her into Beatrice.

>>6165647
>Really?
Yes, really. Back then she had a good reason for that and she really couldn't have changed that without many troubles. Now she has an immediate work to do first, and then maybe she can be sad for a little.

People are taking ep 7 too seriously, y'all forgot who the game master is?
Enjoy ep 8 showing the secret reasons behind everyone's actions. Anyone watched "Murder on the Orient Express"? That.

>>6165667

....

You know. I know that Kyrie is a VERY VERY rational person but even rational people would break down a bit after finding out the person you love for over 18 years is dead. Unless she isn't human

>>6165672
Bern is just trolling. XD

>>6165672
'Cept Bern is not a game master. Doesn't make me trust it more because she's still involved, though.

>>6165591
>Enjoy Kyrie plotting everything to save Ange after the Sumadera is pissed off because Kinzo died and thus wont pay what he said he would pay for having Kyrie marry into the family. Ange not coming was purposefull, she is held hostage.

I would not be the least bit surprised if something like this was the case.

>>6165672
>People are taking ep 7 too seriously, y'all forgot who the game master is?

Then again, Bern is pretty much having an orgasm when she's alone after Featherine goes to sleep in the ????. She talks about how the only thing she did was arrange Beatrice's funeral and ripped her guts out, and that she "hasn't really done anything yet; she hasn't really acted as GM yet." Now that that's done, she can finally do what she wants. (At the end of the main game, she also talks about how pretty much the only thing she did was set up a convenient environment and set Will loose to settle everything.)

I wonder how will Kyrie feel when Rudolf tells her that her son is Battler.

>>6165677
>>6165682
This. Especially since ep 8's premise is "I'll show you a truth that's not cruel nor unfair, this gameboard is dedicated to Ange"

>Was it ever stated why Kyrie/Rudolf even really needed that fast sum of money anyway?

I remember there was a flashback scene in one of the earlier episodes where he mentions that he has to secure the money in order to safeguard his employees' jobs.

>>6165687
Is it just me or the longer things go on, the less and less I feel we can blame Battler or 'his sin' on the events of Rokkenjima?

>>6165687

Who knows maybe she woudn't even give a damn considering she's a robot (i.e rational) in EP7 tea party

>>6165675
Not if loving them made you miserable.

>>6165696
Since the first time I heard about that "sin" I thought it's something really unimportant that served as a trigger by coincidence. Like, Battler not coming back made Yasu decide to get shit done and find the gold, which resulted in everything else. I don't think Beatrice blames him for the massacre, she's just sad he doesn't remember her and puts it this way to fit with her whole theme.

>>6165707
The only part of the relationship that seemed to make her feel miserable was Battler existing as a reminder that Asumu had a kid and she didn't, and that's not Rudolf's fault.

Next in Episode 8: We find out how this is Rudolf's fault.

>>6165707

But Kyrie loves Rudolf regardless of the hell she had to go through for 18 years. Miserable or not. You will still feel some sadness for your lover's death and not after you feel its fine to feel sadness.

>>6165696
His sin will probably be something petty anyway. Remember k1 and the doll? That was like the tip of the iceberg.
Hinamizawa syndrome, Takano's plans, the girls' horrible past and even Shion in yandere mode had little to do with it, it was only a trigger for bad kakeras.

>>6165719
Uh, we already know his sin.

>>6165712

>Next in Episode 8: We find out how this is Rudolf's fault.

Well who's fault could it be other than Rudolf? It's pretty certain he's involved/knows the baby switch.

>>6165712
She said that she had been through eighteen years of torture. That means it continued even after she married Rudolf and had Ange.

>>6165696
>>6165709
In the world, where Beatrice doesn't exist, people still die. It was Kinzo who proposed the riddle to relatives in that world. Therefore, in our world, Kinzo is dead from drinking and depression, and Battler's sin led to this present Beatrice and her proposing that riddle in his stead, after which the murders start.

>>6165728
yeah wrong tense, i just want to see if everything matches on the final episode.
i still don't know how ryukishi will go at it and if we'll get a battler/yasu as yasu interaction

>>6165736

Maybe those 6 years of hell she had to go through even though she already maried Rudolf is due to Battler leaving. I think it's the most logical explanation

>>6165777
Why should she care? She doesn't know Battler is her kid. We know Rudolf kept cheating on Kyrie even after they were married, too.

>>6165794
>We know Rudolf kept cheating on Kyrie even after they were married, too.

When was this stated? It's not that I don't believe you, but I want to read this it. I may have skipped it.

>>6165794
>Why should she care? She doesn't know Battler is her kid

Battler is a reminder of Asumu and the fact that "Asumu's child" lived and "her's" didn't. that because of that she had to spend 12 years withouth having Rudolf to herself personally. Battler leaving probably felt like A resistance to Kyrie from Asumu (I don't know how to explain this well)

>We know Rudolf kept cheating on Kyrie even after they were married, too.

Huh? do we? Where was it stated so?

>>6165814
>>6165815
Thanksgiving Day TIP.

http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/Labor_Thanksgiving_Day_Gifts

>"Hello, it's me. ...Hm? Got it, transfer the call. This is a matter of absolute secrecy. Don't pass on any calls or messages for awhile. ...Hello. ...Yo, honey. I said I'd see you tomorrow, didn't I? I told you not to call me here too much. ...Hahaha, you idiot, I'm telling you to sleep well tonight. You won't be sleeping much tomorrow night, okay?"

>Rudolf was wearing a lewd grin, or maybe he was just smiling lively at the other person over the phone. ...This damn man, he's caught himself another woman AGAIN. You could call it his life's work at this point. He couldn't exist without seeking out beautiful ladies during his business and seducing them. Even while cheating, he didn't forget his responsibility to his family. He wondered if being able to balance those two things was the true way of cheating.

>>6165825

Suddenly I don't feel sorry for him when Kyrie goes yandere mode on him. He deserves getting the shit beaten by Kyrie more

>>6165777
Kyrie hated Battler too.

Who DOESN'T Kyrie hate?
(besides Rudolph)

>>6165825
His woman was an illusionary demon-girl in this one though. And in vn itself we see:
>"I do wonder. Rudolf nii-san is a womanizer on the genetic level...!"
>"That's alright, Rosa-san. If a rose gives me too much trouble, I'll snip it right at the root."

>>6165858

Lolwat? Kyrie hating Rudolf? that really makes alot of sense.

>>6165866
he just said rusdolf is the only one she DOESN'T hate derp

>>6165858
Well, she seemed to appreciate her "master" in EP6, who granted her an absolute miracle.

...waitaminute.

>>6165860
>His woman was an illusionary demon-girl in this one though.

Where is that said? it's a real woman. And it says "again" hence there are lots and lots of real women with who Rudolf cheats on Kyrie.

>>6165868

yeah I just failed there.

>>6165858
She doesn't hate anyone except Asumu. And Battler for that reason. The rest are meaningless to her.

>>6165860
Not in this TIP, it wasn't, and even then it wouldn't exactly take away from the characterization of Rudolf being more than happy to cheat on Kyrie, even if she scares him.

>[To Rudolf-san, with our everyday feelings. Kyrie & Battler]

>"Whew. That sure hits home. ...I wonder what it is. I'll value it."

>He opened the small wooden box. There, he found a sharp, pointed...object that shined a dull silver. It was so sharp...that it seemed that just pressing it lightly against his fingertip would cause beads of blood to surface. Eh... Ah... A ki...kitchen knife...? ...Why...would they give this to me...? As Rudolf broke into a cold sweat, he reread the message on the card.

>[To Rudolf-san, with our everyday feelings.]

>With our everyday feelings. Withwithwith.

If he's still cheating after that, then he pretty much deserves what's coming to him.

>>6165885

Rudolf just doesn't how to control his dick.

>>6165898

More like Rudolf's dick controls him. The dick is the main subject on here.

Bet he even fucked Rosa.

>>6165907
I wouldn't put it past Rudolf. After all, Rosa desperately needs a man.

>>6165907
Or Natsuhi.
More than Battler's birth, it's the circumstances surrounding Jessica's birth that confuse me.

>>6165912

Or Eva (Fatiyoshi is probably useless in bed) and lets not forget Beatrice 2

>>6165912
She would never cheat on Krauss. After all, she's pure and innocent.

>>6165919
Or Kinzo and Kumasawa.

>>6165911
>>6165912
>>6165919

Or the four, at the same time. Yes, four, don't forget Krauss.

>>6165907
Rudolf's penis is the 18th guest on Rokkenjima and the true mastermind.

It's like Edelweiss Fantasia all over again.

I bet Rudolf has fucked all the Ushiromiya family. And that includes Gohda, Nanjo and Genji.

>>6165907
Dammit Rudolf.
This is why you die every time.

>>6165907
Rudolf fucked Yasu and she gave birth to Ange.
This is why her body can't love

>>6165931

In fact Kinzo is nothing but a delusion of Rudolf's penis.

The penis is the true OH DESIRE

Rudolf's dick is the main culprit here. Kyrie should really cut it off.

>>6165938
And then fucked Ange.
Daughter-fucking penises are now a time-honored Ushiromiya family tradition.

>>6165945
Rudolf's dick is made of steel and love.
It's impossible to cut it.

>>6165942
It's then found out that BOMB doesn't exist and the explosion is actually caused by Sigmund Freud's corpse spinning in its grave so quickly that it causes the island to explode to remove this anomaly from he universe.

>>6165953

We'll see about that

>>6165961

This sounds better than what was shown in the EP7 tea party

>>6165953
>George: Why Rudolf-ojisan... I looked up to you... I wanted to be like you...

>>6165942
K-KINZO!?

>>6165977

goodbye FATTY~

>>6165907

>>6165996

>>6165977

>>6166019
Damn you Red Handkerchief of Truth!

How the fuck did it turn into /a/-level thread.

>>6165977

You wanted to be a cheating manslut George? really?

>>6166107

It would be a huge improvement from being a fat fat fat who can't get a girl even being rich. Not even when batman went and put a girl in front of his fat face.

>>6166136

George is all about purity and rabu! and has his eyes on one "girl" only. Sayo chan!

>>6166163

He complains because girls don't pay attention to him. He just fall in love with the one who looked at him for a second.

>>6166172

You mean fall in love with the one who he found out isn't all into him and likes Battler more.

>>6166178
actually it's proved that shannon is really in love with george. i don't know about yasu as a whole.
and i still find him adorable, i mean he's just awkward and yandere but that's just cute to me.

>>6166172
It would be funny if it was revealed Shannon/Yasu/whatever never thought George takes everything seriously and it's just George being fatfatfat and Jessica being a teenage girl she is. Especially since most of their romance scenes are fantasy scenes.

>>6166189
>adorable
>cute

>>6166172
He didn't "fall in love" with Shannon. He was just envious/had complexes about Battler, and wanted to snatch her away from him because that's what you do when you want to prove yourself "superior" to someone. Everything that's been said about George and Shannon pre-family reunion shows he planned carefull every occasion he had with Shannon (asking Shannon to look for something that he didn't really lose so that they'd spend time together, etc)

>>6166172
>>6166223
If George was so easy to get, then why all the issue with breaking the mirror? It didn't resolve the Shkanon issue, and if Yasu loved Battler, why would she/he/it help Shannon pursue George?

I is confused.

>>6166260
Shannon doesn't know hoe complex-ridden he is. She just wanted to forget about Battler, he wanted to get her to get over his complexes, they were a perfect match.
Depending on your position on the whole DID-notDID hing, it could either mean there was ana actual personality fight, or it was just the author's figurative way of telling us Yasu never actually got over loving Battler's even though she fell in love with someone else. It happens in real life.

>>6166223
He is really in love with her. Cf Ryukishi.

>>6166260
Yasu let Shannon do her own thing after the love for Battler was transferred to her. Kanon was there for Shannon to be able to function. (The whole "two are needed to create a world" thing)

>>6166375
So where'd the love for Jessica come from?

>>6166388
Kanon and Shannon fell in love independently.

Just my speculation, but I'm pretty sure that's why they had to kill one another too, since if George replaced Kanon, Kanon would have no function and if Jessica replaced Shannon, then Shannon would have no function.

>>6166195
There's that theory, that their romances exist only in fiction, that real Beatrice wrote for whatever reason, probably pity. Kinda like Erika's existence. Therefore, Shannon, Kanon and fictional-Beatrice are also purely fictional characters, and that's what 'furniture' for them means. In reality there's only one servant (Yasu-Beatrice), maybe even with a completely different servant-name.
However that creates some problems with the head count, if we assume that "there are 17 people" refers to the actual number of real people in the true event.

>>6166388
Nothing was shown between them in the episode that claimed to show at least a partial truth, it was just a crush on Jessica's part. Everything else was fiction written by either Yasu herself or Aurora based on Yasu's writings.

>>6166407

Not necessarily. I always interpreted that 17 including Erika.
"Even if we include you there is only 17 people"
In that 17 Erika is included, the deal was Erika lost because she didn't knew about Shkanon and thought there were 17 people, so she would be the 18th.

>>6166507
Do you even understand what this theory is about? There should be no Shkannon in reality at all, by this theory, because they are purely fictional characters.

And red truth doesn't care about what Erika thought. It's simply truth and doesn't depend on her feelings. You can't apply different head counts to the same fiction without petty, lame wordplays and nitpicking (and that proved to be almost non-existent in Umineko thanks to ep7). It makes much more sense, if their final red applies to the number of people in *reality* (real event, The Truth, Erika's inescapable hell, where she drowned, and she and they know about it), and not in any of the fictions, while Erika's red applies only to the number of people in *her own fiction*, where she exists, reached the island and was there doing things. Therefore, they deny her existence from *reality*.

>>6165410
"The World represents an ending to a cycle of life, a pause in life before the next big cycle beginning with the fool. The figure is at once male and female, above and below, suspended between the heavens and the earth. It is completeness."

Dammit, Ryukishi.

>The figure is at once male and female, above and below, suspended between the heavens and the earth. It is completeness

ffffuuuuuuuuckkkkkkkkkk

>>6168445

We should have payed more attention to the tarot cards before. virtually all of them turned out to be true.

>>6165306
>If they are taken negatively, it means some higher power fucking around in Macbethish way.

Suddenly the wheel of fortune fits both Lambda and bern perfectly

>>6165567

>Wait until EP8 where Kyrie is Batman and Eva becomes the Joker.

If this actually happens It would be so amusing to read the reactions of those people who kept calling Eva a 'Messiah' and calling Kyrie a horrible bitch

Then again BATTLER said that no one was bad so yeah

>>6168698
People who call Eva a messiah are delusional to begin with.

>>6168991
dumb fucks, we all know that bernkastel is batman here and that 34 twoface. leaving beato to be joker.

>>6168991

You know how some people are. You're either a complete, irridimable monster or a pure angel.

People keep making excuses for Eva forgetting she's the one who triggered the whole killing spree to begin with Ofcourse it's not to say that she's a bad person but she's no 'Messiah'. Not only that her reasons for wanting to cover up Natsuhi's and Krauss's deaths are anything but pure.

>>6169085
Eva trying to cover up Krauss and Natsuhi's deaths was just really disgusting.

>>6169124

Espescially when she set the bomb as a way to force the rest of the adults to help. Yeah Eva that REALLY helped!

>>6168566
Inb4 McKyrie killed DunKinzo and later got killed by McEva, the only mother from whose womb was born never child, because George was so fat he had to be from his mother's womb untimely ripp'd.

Because Umineko is, in fact, a story told by an idiot, full of noise and trolls, meaning nothing.

Also, Sayo is the virgin, Eva is the mother, Kumasawa is the Granny. WHEN WE THREE SHALL MEET AGAIN?

>>6169820