/jp/ - Otaku Culture

you included Gohda but not Kumasawa?

If I see that fucking gun one more time

>>6100615
Kumasawa: Not quitting after kinzo raped his daughter, covered up her employer's death, made two-four children believe that they were witches, further instilled the legend of the witch.

Nanjo: Covered up his best friend's death, Didn't leave rokkenjima once he found out kinzo raped his daughter.

Even the servants are hopeless.

>>6100609

Source on OP picture?

>>6100649
It's a shop, that's been out since ep 3 or 4.

>>6100649
Are you fucking serious?

>>6100661

I am, that's why i'm asking.

Holy shit. How is a "bittersweet" ending even possible when you know all the characters are playing pretend and destined to be crazy murderers?

Atleast with Higurashi you knew it wasn't the character's fault. This time it really does seem like real mental disorders and trauma inform the magic world.

This shop turned out to be almost true though.

is it just me or is evil shannon just a lot sexier than normal shannon?

>>6100667
Umineko no Naku Koro ni.

>>6100643

battler: shannon i remember the promise now!
shannon: ..............
battler: i love you! but we're probably gonna die now and you killed everyone!
shannon:................off with the pants.
battler:..................i'm ok with this.

>>6100675

It's just you

>>6100680
Hey, Beatrice, let's play.

>>6100687
Brats should go to bed.

>>6100670
All people are dead, because explosion really happened, duh. Battler survived. Ange gets her onii-chan. Crying scenes.

>>6100680
>>6100687
>>6100694

If i ever see that RP one more time

>>6100701
You haven't seen a real RP yet.

"The butler did it"
-Ryukishi07

>>6100707

I did, but it's still RP

>>6100645
>>6100609
so much rape ... is kinzo a rapist or what ???

>>6100745
Nope. She was a 1000 years old witch bound by the contract, I swear!

Poor Gohda, he didn't deserve to die ;_;

George is fat, this is why everyone died. Prove me wrong.

>>6100778
George is fat, this is why everyone died. Prove me right!

>>6100778

If this post is >>6100788, you are wrong

George is not fat.
He's just a little overweight.

Battler: Gets blamed for everything.

>>6100782
>George is fat = George doesn't have a girlfriend
>Battler left Family = Shannon got dumped
>George meets Shannon, Shannon meets George
>Loners get together to not be alone
>Battler comes back
>Shannon snaps and kills

As you can see, one of the basic premises is that George is fat.

>Episode 7: Requiem of the Golden Witch
>Translation: 0% Editing: 0%

It's not George's fault.
It's all about the gold.

If Kinzo hadn't stole it with Beatrice, none of this would have happened.
Fucking cursed gold.

>>6100792
But in Lion's world there's no Shannon at all and everyone dies nonetheless.

>>6100848
That was just a "what if" that Bern made to troll Leon and Ange.

>>6100791
He DID kick-start one of the most dedicated yanderes in the world (I know, I know, I'm over-simplifying)...

>>6100848
Until I read the Translation I have no idea how to deal with contradictory spoilers from EP7. If Shannon doesn't exist, how come Will made her snap?

>>6100863
She's the Shannon from Yasu's world, and he asks her and Kanon to come into the same room, because he wants to talk to both the people that don't recognize Lion at the same time. Cue BSOD.

>>6100863
The chapel was kinda "superposition" of two worlds: Lion's and Beatrice's. That's why the people have 2 different kinds of memories, all characters from both worlds exist and there are two "culprits": 'dead cat' and 'alive cat'.

>>6100860
It's a useless troll if really survives in countless other worlds, even though they themselves exist with a low probability. That way probability of Beatrice's demise wouldn't be 1.

>>6100890
*if he really survives

And by 'culprit' I mean for the case of "who killed Beatrice?" that Bern proposes to Will to solve. He concludes, that it can only be killed by the person, who created it in the first place.

Are ya ready kids?
Aye aye Goldsmith!
I can't heeeeear you!
AYE AYE GOLDSMITH!
OHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!
WHO LIVES ON A ISLAND OFF BY THE SEA?
KINZO GOLDPANTS!
SPONTANEOUS AND DRUNK AND A SORCERER HE BE!
KINZO GOLDPANTS!
IF SACRIFICING YOUR FAMILY IS SOMETHING YOU WISH!
KINZO GOLDPANTS!
THEN JUMP OUT THE WINDOW AND GO FUCK A WITCH!
KINZO GOLDPANTS!
READY?
KINZO GOLDPANTS! KINZO GOLDPANTS!KINZO GOLDPANTS!
KINZOOOOO! GOLDPAAANTS! HA! HA! HA! HA! OH DESIRE!

>>6100848

That Kakera was fucking puhsing it. I mean I did almost believe Bern up to that point but seriously... that was just too much.

>>6100969
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Maybe in the world without Beatrice it's impossible to prevent the tragedy at all. And it's not completely unavoidable in her world too. That's why she says that if Battler came a year sooner or a year later "something" still would have happened but probably not as big as Rokkenjima Massacre.

>>6101054
Ryu does a good Jessica.

Delicious Lion

>Ange: Jumped off a skyscraper because a "loli witch" told her to

So Ange died after this? But I thought she left for Rokkenjima after she jumped off?

>>6101163
>So Ange died after this?
Probably no. Otherwise what's the purpose of all other 1998 stuff? I'd like to think it has a relevance.

>>6101183
Everything we saw of 1998 is a fiction.
It's very possible the real Ange is still a loli and that only 1-2 years passed since the incident in the real world.

>>6101190
No it's not. The fiction is only her trip to Tohya in ep6.

>>6100848
Then the most obvious inference is that the death of everyone is fixed, whether Beatrice exists or not. In other words, Beatrice isn't the reason people die.

>>6101195
Then how the heck did she survive the skyscraper jump? Magic?

>>6101221
Nets

>>6101221

>>6101221
>To think that she had shot through several layers of safety netting for the remodeling project, been caught in a multi-colored banner adorning the atrium and slipped off, ...only to be softly caught by a final banner and to land on the ground without a scratch, then briskly leave that place..., it put Hong Kong movies to shame.
>"So, you were testing your luck...! My, my, you truly are Kinzo-san's grandchild. **The nerve to trust your life to chance.** ...The Chairman was also a person who could stake her life on a bet like it was nothing, so is this the Ushiromiya blood as well?
Those damn Beatrices.

I prefer when Yasu is drawn as Claire than as Shannon.

>>6101283
But it's not her real form. It was granted by Bern to hide her "shabby appearance" for those who haven't figure it out yet.

>>6101283
Yasu was never drawn as Shannon. We still haven't seen what Yasu really looks like.

>>6101346
Shouldn't Yasu look like Lion?

>>6101307
>>6101256
>hahahaohwow.jpg

>>6101377
Yasu is basically an opposite of Lion, so no.

>>6101377
>Shouldn't Yasu look like Lion?
Probably.

>>6101325

>"shabby appearance"

Exact wording? Wow, a callback to EP3. Beato was surprised she didn't expose her "shabby appearance" to Battler after she solved the game for him and beat EVA.

>>6101400
Lion didn't experience the fall and 'serious injury' that left her unable to fall in love. Lion wasn't raised in an orphanage with a poor food. Lion hadn't worked as a servant all her life. Lion raised as the new heir. His appearance will surely be different.

Disfigured meido cross-dresser with multiple personality issues?

>>6101423
Now that you mention it, I guess you're right.
The question remains: is Yasu a man or a woman?

>>6101497
That wont even be revealed. I doesnt matter.

>>6101487
As if Ryukishi would make the love interest of the main characer ugly or disfigured. That's also the reason why Yasu is female.
Also her genitals will be just fine as well.

>>6101413
Yeah, just checked.
Clair: ……感謝します。みすぼらしい姿を晒さずに済みます。
It's みすぼらしい姿 - shabby appearance

Ep3:
;　……そのようなみすぼらしい姿なら。@未練などない。@そなた諸共、妾の
この姿も消し去ってくれようぞ…！」\
`......Rather than existing in that shabby form,`@` I shall erase this form of mine along with you, `@`without any regrets...!"`\
;　赤で魔女を否定することは即ち、……彼女のみすぼらしい姿を知ること
になるということ。\
`Denying witches in red, ......was the same as knowing her shabby form.`\

"shabby" in tea party:
;「…………元々、魔女ですらないあんたが、本当はどんなにみすぼらしい
存在だったか、@いつだって思い出させてあげるんだから。@…………私の期
待を裏切ったら。@その時は楽しい楽しい罰ゲームが待ってるわよぅ。\
`"............Because originally, you weren't even a witch, and at any time, `@`I'll remind you what a truly shabby creature you were.`@` ............If you betray my expectations.`@` At that time, you can look forward to a fun, fun punishment game.`\

>>6101516
They wouldn't because she's dead anyway. Time had run out. She only exists in metaworld now (i.e. Battler's fantasy), where she's obviously female.

I'm not understanding this shabby business. ANyone can explain?

>>" I'll make you regret being born a womaaaaaaaaaaaan, hyahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahh!! "

Complexed by something you are supposed to have between your legs, Yasu?

>>6101534
Watch Ryukishi pulling some shit and make her a survivor and tries to amke us pity her. Watch him telling us if we don't we don't have any love for the characters.

hell yeah motherfuckers

>>6101555
Well, if technically she hadn't killed anyone...

>>6101555
I doubt he will. He can make us pity her without making her a survivor. After all Battler already buried her on all levels.

The lack of Kyrie in this thread is disturbing.

>>6101569
Make all cousins fall in love with her. Play stupid roles and trick them. Then just dump the men who decided that he wanted to marry her, live his live with her and the girl who cares for her deeply for some asshole who came back after six years saying "Ihihihihi, I like to mess with a lot of girls"
I hate Yasu witha passion.

>>6101588
Without love the truth cannot be seen.

>>6101588
But she didn't do any of those things. That's why she "entrusted herself to fate" and spun the roulette hoping for any outcome. The exact meaning of that depends on whether you trust Bern's truth or not.

>>6101588
It really depends of your your PoV. If you ga with the DID shit or anything like that, she can do it subconsciously.
And to me even if it is conscious, I still think she is understandable, as long as she don't kill anyone with this damn fiction theory.

>>6101601
Okay, go ahead and say the stuff in the 'love version' go ahead. I have lots of love. For Jessica and George who fell in love with some stupid self-centered maid who only cares for herself and talks about true love which she in fact never experienced.

>>6101588
>Make all cousins fall in love with her.
More like all cousins fell in love with her by themselves.
>Play stupid roles and trick them.
If they can't see through fake boobs and a wig, they deserve to be tricked.
>Then just dump the men who decided that he wanted to marry her, live his live with her and the girl who cares for her deeply for some asshole who came back after six years saying "Ihihihihi, I like to mess with a lot of girls"
All indications we have are to the contrary of this.
>I hate Yasu witha passion.
For reasons that don't even make sense.

>>6101585
She's too busy killing everyone.

>>6101620
But...that isn't what happened. Yasu didn't think she was tricking anyone. She honestly considers the three seperate parts of herself as three separate entities.

I'm not saying that's a-okay or at all healthy, but it's not something to hate her for.

>>6101620
Why do you care so much about Jessica and George? Jessica is some shallow girl that will fall in love with anything she thinks has a penis and lives within a two mile radius. George is a loser that doesn't care about what Shannon is really like. Battler was the only one that ever paid attention to what Shannon really liked and really dreamed. I wouldn't settle for a shallow bitch or a pathetic lardass either.

>>6101617
If it were DID then I would be okay with it but in episode 7 it clearly shows that she is aware of everything. Which is unforgivable.
"I ALWAYS LOVED YOU BATTLER-SAMA!!"
Why in the name of god would she then enter a relationship with George? Involve herself iwth Jessica, even tricking Jessica into going to the school festival with her while still being with George.
How can she say that she eer loved Battler? Fuck she saw him a few times when they were 12, yay she might have started to admire him. Have a crush on him but that was six years ago. How can she dumb Jessica who always was with her on the island? How can hurt her so much? If she had it so bad in her live why try and put other through misery as well?
Yasu is an awful person. Jessica, George and Battler deserve better.

>>6101643

She created them and controls them. Enough.

>>6101647
>"I ALWAYS LOVED YOU BATTLER-SAMA!!"
Come back when you've read EP7, please.

>>6101625
YASU defenders UNITE!!!!

Explain this though:
Without love the truth cannot be seen.
Jessica/FAT love Shkanon, why can they not see the truth?

!!!!!!!! I FILE FOR LOGIC ERROR!!!!!

>>6101674
It depends on what truth you want to see.

>>6100609
>Kinzo: Raped his daughter beatrice
>Kinzo's daughter Beatrice
Wait, wat?

>Why in the name of god would she then enter a relationship with George?

to be close to Battler, of course! I mean, if (s)he marries George, Battler MAY be the best-man and at least she would be close to him

...

oh my, R07 trolled us with those lovey-dovey scenes on the 6 previous episodes?!

>>6101706
Yeah, Beatrice II, Yasu's and Lion's mother.

I seriously hope that ep8 will be different about this, Kinzo looks like a complete bastard here.

>>6101657
That's like claiming that because Maria created Sakutarou, she knows he's just a stuffed animal.

>>6101717
This was Kinzo's most likable EP. Even though he was a incestuous rapist nutcase.

>>6101693

>>6101713
In order to forget Battler at the beginning because she really thought that she loved him (which can be the case, who knows), but seeing Battler again troubled her. It's not so hard to understand, duurr.

>>6101717
Actually, OP forgot (because he didn't read it) about Kinzo proposing to steal the gold from Italians to his commander, that probably caused the massacre.
「イ、イタリア人の黄金を奪うだと？　卑怯者め、右代宮、貴様、それでも
帝国軍人かぁあああぁ？！」

Previously damn coward Kinzo himself said that it was his boss's idea in the first place.

>>6101713
Shannon LOVES George and Ryu confirmed it, just as Shannon, because Yasu doesn't.

>>6101647

In order to forget Battler at the beginning because she really thought that she loved George (which can be the case, who knows), but seeing Battler again troubled her. It's not so hard to understand, duurr.
>>6101731
Yeah, but the good parts about kinzo doesn't compensate at all for the raep, IMHO. He looked insane in the previous episodes, but here he just broken the ceiling.

>>6101733

>>6101758
>broken the ceiling
So you didn't mind all that hidden mansion with a mistress living there from her birth stuff in previous episodes? And ep4 made it almost obvious what kind of person he was.

>>6101783
The mistress is not the problem at all, it's the fact that he raped his daughter. Beatrice II is hardly something surprising.

>>6101758
>Yeah, but the good parts about kinzo doesn't compensate at all for the raep, IMHO.
Kinzo is an asshole that broke everything he ever touched, but this episode makes it clear that whatever other uncountable shitty, terrible things he did, he was capable of an unfathomably deep love for at least one person.

I wouldn't say I like Kinzo, but this episode finally made him into a genuine person, instead of an OH DESIRE meme.

>>6101824
It was obvious that she's his daughter, if you thought about it even a little after ep3, goddamn.
He met his "witch" Beatrice during the war and she gave him the gold. She looked like the portrait, i.e. was young.
Now we have a fucking 1967, she should be at least 40 or more, but Rosa met a very similar, looking like the portrait, woman again.
[gold]It was a splendid bit of magic.[/gold]

Not to mention all the resurrection, "homunculus" and other things.

>>6101824
It was obvious that this mistress was his daughter, if you thought about it even a little after ep3, goddamn.
He met his "witch" Beatrice during the war and she gave him the gold. She looked like the portrait, i.e. was young.
Now we have a fucking 1967, she should be at least 40 or more, but Rosa met a very similar, looking like the portrait, woman again.
[gold]It was a splendid bit of magic.[/gold]

Now you have all the "resurrection", "homunculus" and other things which really point that he didn't think about her as a daughter. And if you assume that the often speculated (ep2 filled with it, and it was written by Beatrice, surely for a reason) existence of the child of this mistress is true, you have the raep. Then, ep4 confirmed it.

>>6101883
Back then it was still possible to speculate that she was an orphan brought from the fukuin orphanage and raised in the island because she resembled the original Beatrice. There were no clues about how old the orphanage was.

>Kinzo: Raped his daughter beatrice, probably raped his other daughter Rosa, would have raped his son/grandson Yasu/Leon.
>would have raped his son/grandson Yasu/Leon.
I will not tolerate this blasphemy.
>Eva: Killed her sister-in-law, her brother and his wife, covered up the massacre.
Eva is a good girl.
>George: Fell in love with his cousin/uncle Yasu/Leon, withheld a letter that was meant for said uncle/cousin causing the tragedy.
Tragedy would have happened either way. The only 'tragedy' this causes is the tragedy Yasu just invents. In reality Battler had nothing to do with everyone dying.
>Ange: Jumped off a skyscraper because a "loli witch" told her to, mentally tortured the one person who truly cared for her because a "loli witch" told her to.
She's just a good girl who was mislead.
>Maria: Poor delusional autistic child who believes she is a witch, further instills the legend of the witch.
This list stopped being about crimes
>Yasu/Leon: Fell in love with three cousins (possibly all five of them), set up the bomb, ended up causing the tragedy.
Correction, planned to kill everyone but never got around to it. Maybe she had a last minute change of heart.
>Battler: Returning to rokkenjima, incompetent move on his part.
We can forgive the incompetences of youth. His father got down on his knees and begged for Battler to come back. Maybe. At least that's what Yasu wrote in her fanfiction.
>Genji: Not leaving rokkenjima after kinzo raped his daughter.
Genji is pure and faithful.
>Gohda: Somehow getting wound up in this shit.
Gohda is in love with Natsuhi, I don't blame him.

>>6101928
>"Kinzo accomplished even the miracle of creating life. And only to shut my soul up in that cage. ......That he would show such magical power simply because of his own love... A thoroughly terrifying person."
>"Yes. Milady's soul was shut up in a homunculus, and she was revived into this world, receiving life again as a baby.......However, because she was a baby, even if Kinzo tried to profess his love to her, it would be useless."
>"...........................You aren't saying.........Grandfather shut that baby up in this hidden mansion, until it grew to reach the same age?!"
>"Yes. That is what I am saying. However, while her soul was the same, a human spirit receives a strong influence from its container. Milady lost all of her memories of the past, and grew up as a very normal human girl."
Well, it's good to be able to determine how a baby will look to bring it from an orphanage and raise it.

So, I've just finished reading/playing episode 7 and to sum my understanding up:

- Shkanontrice confirmed
- big bombs confirmed
- the riddle was pretty much unsolvable for non-Japanese
- reality is harsh (and kyrie the most horrible person ever)

>>6101982
>would have raped his son/grandson Yasu/Leon.
>I will not tolerate this blasphemy.
Bernkastel says she could find some kakera in which it happened, so it means he could have done it.

>>6102362
>reality is harsh (and kyrie the most horrible person ever)
Not really, if Kyrie hadn't acted it would have been Rosa, maybe Eva. She jsut took advantage of the situation since they obviously weren't gonna make it alive.

>>6102388
I'm not referring to that part, but to where she says that Ange is only a tool to tie herself to Rudolf, and she thinks of Battler as nothing but a nuisance that, while they are at it, can be killed with ease.

>>6102362
>kyrie the most horrible person ever

>>6102416
she's a witch

---

>Shkanontrice confirmed
I would add a "Yasu" and a "Lion" there

Skannonyalitrice?

>big bombs confirmed
We've known since EP6. Erika's profile says she "died in the Rokkenjima Explosion Incident"

>the riddle was pretty much unsolvable for non-Japanese

you really thought we would be able to solve it? No matter the Translator, many things are languaje-specific

>reality is harsh (and Kyrie the most horrible person ever)
She does what needs to be done, bub.

it's a good thing i stopped caring about umineko years ago

>>6102362
>>- Shkanontrice confirmed
no for the k.
>>- big bombs confirmed
More or less. We still don't know what the bomb is and some things, if you are really interrested in the details.
>>- the riddle was pretty much unsolvable for non-Japanese
Not really but you really need some knowledge of the language. Normal.
>>- reality is harsh (and kyrie the most horrible person ever)
No.

>>6102945
>no for the k
>The body, that is not able to return to soil returns to an/the illusion.
>The illusion witch and stake, only the illusion can be carried out.
>The role of who is illusion ends, it's impossible to leave a corpse.
>The closed room that forms a ring, the beginning and the end overlap.
denial.jpg

>>6102945
...dude. Are people seriously trying to argue Kanon isn't a part of Shkannontrice? EP7 made it pretty fucking clear when Shannon and Kanon couldn't be in the same room with Will, not to mention Clair mentioning she would "create" a younger brother figure for Shannon.

>>6103801
As usual, you ShkShitters have stopped thinking. Sure, Shannon has a personality called Kanon. Does that mean that a real Kanon doesn't exist? No, jesus fucking christ. It's obvious that Shannon just painted over the real Kanon and made her own version of him.

>>6103807
...no, not really. That still doesn't explain why Shannon BSOD'd when Will tried to get her and Kanon in the same room or the whole plot of EP6. Not to mention there's not really any evidence for your "obvious" theory.

>>6103812
Imaginary friends doesn't explain it either. Do you ShkShitters ever wonder why a fucking imaginary friend counts as a person, when all the other friends don't? Fools will always be fools.

>>6103820
Because Ryukishi considers them separate personalities. He made it pretty clear in EP6 with his lines about "even if it's the same body, you can see a different personality in that body as a different person" in the Ange/Featherine scenes.

Look, I don't like the DID bullshit either, but it's painfully obvious it's what Ryukishi's gunning for. Just get over it.

without love, butt hurt cannot be erased.
-yashkanontrice

>>6103807
>An illusion cannot leave behind a corpse.

KANON IS REAL GUYS

The truth is more fucked up than fantasy.

I'd rather a witch did it.

>>6104167
Stupid sexy Kanon

>>6103820
>ShkShitters
Still in denial bro?

>>6103812
Also, Shannon as well as Kanon don't know Lion at all. This indicates, that Kanon doesn't exist in any world where Lion exists, which in conjunction with the story of how Kanon appears for the first time strongly implies Kanon is another alter ego of Lion/Beatrice III/Shanon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKZXRAAxNSI

Hey, someone translated the Ep7 prologue.

THE HEART THE HEART THE HEART THE HEART THE HEART THE HEART THE HEART THE HEART THE HEART

Will, you so crazy.

>my face when "shkshit" guy is heavily in denial around me

>>6103801
>>6103795
Read ep7 again. Except for the Shannon/will, it is all Shannontrice. Not Kanon.

>>6103812
Shkannon doesn't explain this either. And by the way Will doesn't have this FUCKING detective authority. So even Shkannon doesn't make sense for the BSOD. Seriously.

>>6103831
He didn't. DID have NOTHING to do with imaginary friends like in ep7.
And imaginary friends like in ep7 have NOTHING to do with multiple personalities. AT ALL. Anyone should be able to understand this.


>>6104801
This part is just stupid. Not being able to rewrite their memory because they are "supposed to be the same person because they share the same body?"
And in the same time, ep6 was saying that we don't care about the body to define a person, it's the personality which count?
shkannon makes even less sense for this, and contradict the very basis of Shkannon in ep6. According to ep6, Lion is a different person, period. He is not Yasu.
Ep7 is just playing even more with this " what is a person", when we thought it was finally clear.
Guessing ep6 was already night impossible in a mystery, now there is also exceptions in the definition? Accepting this blindly just change umineko into a giant joke.


Yasu/Shannontrice is probably confirmed as lolimaginaryfriendswhichworkunrealistically., the whole episode is about this. But Shkanon, no, there is 2 points which doesn't really make sense by themselves, and the fact that Kanon arrived when Shannon needed a second person in order to create a "world" (great deal, really.), and that's all.
it is not even needed anymore for a lot of closed rooms now. multiple personalities sure are useful.

>>6104167
Well, Kanon don't leave a corpse, technically speaking.

>>6104801
Except, Kanon never says he doesn't know Lion.
It's Shannon that says Kanon doesn't either.

And, if I may support my Doublenon theory once again, she can't go and call Kanon because that would mean she would realize Kanon is real and not just one of her characters.

Anyone who deny ShKanon just didn't read episode 7.
Or is terminally retarded.

>>6105613
What do you mean by doublenon?
By the name it looks like a theary I also have, so I'm interested.
And of course it implies that "our" Shannon knows it by "our" Kanon and that it is true. It wouldn't make sense otherwise.

>>6105621
I would have said the opposite. So sad.
inB4 shitstorm when the game will be translated.

>>6105601
I'm sure R07 would love to bitchslap you, sure seem like the kind of readers he hates.
Everything about Beatrice was solved in episode 7, ShKanon is a big part of it and even Claire said that the whole "dividing the soul" deal was a big part of her motive, and that the whole fucking Shannon/Kanon/Beatrice duel as shown in episode 6.

Anyways episode 7 doesn't leave any room for theories anymore simply because Beatrice's game is supposed to be solved now, you creating new theories mean you didn't understand shit.

>>6105621
Tell me where it's confirmed then, if you're so smart. We don't see Shannon creating Kanon's image and we don't ever see her playacting Kanon like she did with Gaap and Beatrice.
It's obvious "Kanon" is one of her delusions, but going from there to say she also crossdresses as him is quite the jump.
And again, I don't ever see anyone saying how that fits with another servant telling Shannon the new servant that was supposed to be Kanon arrived. She didn't imagine it, a real stake-maid said it.

>>6105629
I think there's two Kanons, actually. An imaginary one Shannon sees when she's alone/they have intimate moments (the one who was present when Genji told her of the epitaph), and another, real Kanon that is the cold one we see treating Shannon indifferently in public and probably goes along with whatever Shannon says because they are both orphans and yadda yadda.

>>6105652
Thematically everything point to it, you just want a confirmation in red that will never happen.
You are a retard of epic proportions.

From the "I'll give a little brother to you" to Kanon's constant "my job is to look over you sis" to the love duel to them being the only one able to interact and talk with Beatrice to the fact that Shannon and Kanon are never seen together and Shannon DDOS when she has to call Kanon to "an illusion can't leave a corpse" when Kanon is supposed to be dead in red.

>>6105601
>Read ep7 again. Except for the Shannon/will, it is all Shannontrice. Not Kanon.
Because he really not that important.
Beatrice creates for Shannon a younger brother with a "fitting name and appearance", knowing her from Fukuin house and loving her.
Will's explanations of twilights.

>Shkannon doesn't explain this either. And by the way Will doesn't have this FUCKING detective authority. So even Shkannon doesn't make sense for the BSOD. Seriously.
He had his Spectator's Authority though. With this authority pieces can't refuse to give a testimony and probably some other features. It's considered much more powerful than detective's authority. BSOD happened only when he tried to use it on her to bring Kanon.

>And imaginary friends like in ep7 have NOTHING to do with multiple personalities. AT ALL. Anyone should be able to understand this.
That's because it isn't DID. She perfectly understands all her "personalities".

>And in the same time, ep6 was saying that we don't care about the body to define a person, it's the personality which count?
>According to ep6, Lion is a different person, period. He is not Yasu.
It seems that you didn't read it or read some terrible translation. Of course Lion is not Yasu. Lion lived a COMPLETELY different life, he has a completely different personality than Yasu. No contradiction here at all.

>it is not even needed anymore for a lot of closed rooms now. multiple personalities sure are useful.
Just because it's not needed doesn't mean, that it wasn't used.


I was actively arguing against Shkannon in the past, but now it's just seems ridiculous. Now I've almost accepted what Ryu wants to write, and if only he would explain all cross-dressing stuff, I will be satisfid.

>>6105646
Sorry, Ryu hates readers who don' think anymore, not the one who are not saying that " ZOMG EVERYTHING IS TRUE ITS A MASTERPIECE". I don't think I am in this category right now, because umineko don't worth anything if you accept everything blindly.
Go on and read ep6 again, apparently you are missing everything since 2 eps.

This "ryukishi hates you" is really ridiculous, people use it without even knowing what it means.

And almost everything in your message have absolutely no link with Shkannon. Dividing the soul? Yeah, and? Shannon already did it before Kanon appeared. The only thing left is the duel, which already had countless alternative explanations during ep6.
Personalities crap is a fact. Shkannon is still a theory. Period. And if you don't want to be hated by the author, you should not accept everything blindly. The important part is not being right or wrong. For Ryu, the important part is that people theorize with everything they can. He was even interested by people theorizing with the basis that "everything not in red is a lie" so your definition of the people he hetas is really, really wrong.

>>6105652
>how that fits with another servant telling Shannon the new servant that was supposed to be Kanon arrived. She didn't imagine it, a real stake-maid said it.
It fits because you didn't read it. The servant never said to her anything. She just wakes up, talks to herself a little and narration goes to describe that she remembered that the new servant is arriving today.

>>6105670
>>Because he really not that important.[...]Will's explanations of twilights.

Twilight which, after ep6 and 7, can be explained without Kanon if you think about it. Or why umineko just digged its own grave.

>>He had his Spectator's Authority though. [...]BSOD happened only when he tried to use it on her to bring Kanon.

Except that we are still not sure about how this authority work. In any case, the "can not refuse to give a testimony" doesn't mean that it works like the detective authority, which Bern refused him.
So seeing Kanon and even asking him a testimony should not be a problem a all.
The problem is here. People keep saying that this part is a proof when we know almost nothing about the spectator authority.

>>That's because it isn't DID. She perfectly understands all her "personalities".

The quotation marks are the problem. The personalities implied in ep6 are not the same thing as in ep7. That's why I am again a confirmed, but also against a disproven.

>>It seems that you didn't read it or read some terrible translation. Of course Lion is not Yasu. Lion lived a COMPLETELY different life, he has a completely different personality than Yasu. No contradiction here at all.

You missed my point. I was talking about why Shannon and Kanon don't remember Lion, here. Of course they are not the same person. But then they should remember Lion like everyone else,

>>Just because it's not needed doesn't mean, that it wasn't used.
But actually saying that it is impossible without it is a blatant lie.

And I'm not against Shkannon, Yasu's past is somehow touching and I also love this version, even with Kanon inside.
But confirmed is a strong word which should not be used when there is no absolute certainty. Not something you say because you think it is true, even if there is still other possibilities. Confirmed basically mean that it HAVE TO BE this way, NO other possibility. In this way, ep7 had no impact on Shkanon.

>>6105691
Actually that scene was even from the first person.

………やわらかな朝の日差しに、………私は、ゆっくりと目を覚ます。
　こんなにも快適な朝は、どれくらいぶりに迎えるだろう。
……鏡に映る自分の顔は、泣き腫らした、みっともないもの。
でも、……心は、朝日のように透き通っていた。
不思議な夢のことは、……まだ鮮明に覚えていた。
もっとも、こうしている間にも、みるみる忘れていってしまうのだけれど…
。
夢の中で居た場所は、……何だかとても不思議な場所だった。
とても安らぐ、心落ち着く場所。
……昨日までの、……辛かった胸の痛みは、そこに置いて来た。
だから今朝は、こんなにも心が安らかなのだ…。
「おはよう、私………。」
泣き腫らした、本当にみっともない顔。
でも、明るい表情だった。
戦人さんのことが、……今も、好き。
でも、もう、……何というか、………落ち着いた。
素敵で大切な預かり物を、……ちゃんとしっかりと仕舞えたような、そんな
気持ち。

…………戦人さん。いつか、帰って来てくれるかな。
そしたら、また一緒に、ミステリー談義を盛り上がりたいな。
……そうそう、いけない。
今日は新しい使用人の男の子が来るんだっけ。
お館様直属の珍しい使用人。
一体、どんな子だろう。仲良くなれるといいな……。
名前は何て言ったっけ。
確か、えぇと……。

>>6105749
Will killed Claire meaning he solved the entire mystery of Beatrice, it was repeated enough times in this episode.
He solved it using the informations he got in this episode.
We got the same informations meaning we have all the pieces.
And what did this episode focus on?
And Claire said that the entire dividing of soul and what was shown in episode 1-6 about the 2 years prior to the event is very important to determine the motive.
Will solving everything is enough confirmation.

>Twilight which, after ep6 and 7, can be explained without Kanon if you think about it. Or why umineko just digged(sic) its own grave.
Explanations of Umineko always made more sense the more we trivialized Kanon's existence in general. Ironically. He never was very useful ...

>>6105785
>>And what did this episode focus on?

Not on Kanon. Sorry

>>And Claire said that the entire dividing of soul and what was shown in episode 1-6 about the 2 years prior to the event is very important to determine the motive.
Will solving everything is enough confirmation.

And?
Read my first post again, please. Have I said anything against lolirrealisticshannontrice, which ep7 strongly implies?


By the way, we don't even really know what Will's answer is. So taking this as an argument... I've seen better. But I also think thathe used lulzmultiplepersonnalities for this, so okay.

>>6105827
Never said that the episode focused on Kanon.
This episode focused on Yasu and her wonderful life.
Just that EVERYTHING about Beatrice was solved, the heart of Beatrice was completely shown.

So there won't be any surprise answer considering the answer was already given.
Now, do you see even a little thing that implies that Kanon could be his own person in episode 1-7?
And how could it happen in regard of the red, the closed rooms, the motives, etc...

Do you really need an explanation for the crossdressing stuff? How do we even know Shannon crossdressed at all, that was just what she wrote in the message bottles. He might be as little known as Gaap in reality.

Does this whole "Kanon is a personality, but Kanon also exists on his own lol" theory have a point, at all? What implications does this have, other than an excuse for you to say you weren't wrong about Shkanon?

>>6105861
True. I pretend to have a little sister and nobody knows about that - I definitely don't crossdress as her. I don't see why yasu couldn't do the same thing.

>>6105749
>Twilight which, after ep6 and 7, can be explained without Kanon if you think about it.
Perhaps you can, but his explanations are heavily imply that Kanon doesn't exist. You can't just disregard them.
And what about younger brother?

>Except that we are still not sure about how this authority work.
Except you probably won't hear about it again, so if you don't believe what's stated there, you have nothing. This ability not only makes them talk, but also visualizes their stories, so we could "spectate" them. And by stories I mean real stories, not some witch's illusion, where Shannon and Kanon could talk together with Genji. Therefore, when he tries to make them tell 'that' true story it becomes an impossible move, just like moving your king under the check.

>The personalities implied in ep6 are not the same thing as in ep7.
Not really.

>Of course they are not the same person. But then they should remember Lion like everyone else,
The chapel was a fusion, superposition of two different worlds: Lion's and Beatrice's. In Beatrice's world Lion doesn't exist (at least as we know him), so it's only natural that they don't remember him, even if they are made to serve at the meta-funeral by the GM.

>But confirmed is a strong word which should not be used when there is no absolute certainty. Not something you say because you think it is true, even if there is still other possibilities. Confirmed basically mean that it HAVE TO BE this way, NO other possibility.
Well, I agree here, but the evidence now is overwhelming.

>In this way, ep7 had no impact on Shkanon.
It had.

>>6105749
>Twilight which, after ep6 and 7, can be explained without Kanon if you think about it.
Translation: it can be interpreted alternatively by way of a desperate asspull, which I would love to hear since it would be a great laugh.

>>6105844
>>Never said that the episode focused on Kanon.
This episode focused on Yasu and her wonderful life.
Just that EVERYTHING about Beatrice was solved, the heart of Beatrice was completely shown.

No. It was solved. But it wasn't shown.
Even the part with Yasu = Shannon2 is twisted, even if it is still really clearer that anything else.
But there is still some parts missing in order to make sense and change Yasu into a pitiable character.


>>Now, do you see even a little thing that implies that Kanon could be his own person in episode 1-7?
>>And how could it happen in regard of the red, the closed rooms, the motives, etc...

To me, most of the story still work with this possibility, without a problem.
Or would even work better with it.
It is not my favorite theory, too easy, but it still works, and don't cause any big problem, because Kanon was ""supposed"" to be real for us in the first place during 1-4.
The murders are not a problem anymore after ep7, even with a real Kanon. Multiple personalities and their "endless" possibilities sure are really, really useful ~
And the motive have nothing to do with Kanon, in fact. Even if he is real, it wouldn't chance anything about Bombshannontrice

>>6105892
People like you are really stupid, you know?
Okay. Think about the possibilities that this ShannonDIDcrap leaves open, ESPECIALLY after ep7. Really think about it. You should be able to figure yourself that the Kanon part is not so important.
I don't like people who are starting their post with things like " desperate", there is not even any hope to talk with them correctly.

>>6105907
I don't like people who are so heavily in denial, so the feeling is mutual. When I really think about it, I realize Kanon is just imaginary, because I'm not mentally disabled.

>>6105861
Good point. And you can blame lolfiction for all the unbelievable things in the other episodes.
But then all Jessica's story and probably part of Beatrice's motivation becomes moot.

>>6105921
I like to think there is no completely impossible shit going on in the lolfiction episodes, but that certain things can be stretched.

>>6105646
>Anyways episode 7 doesn't leave any room for theories anymore.
>episode 7 doesn't leave any room for theories
>episode 7

nah, you should have said 6.
smart people figured it out around 3-4

and this was such a nice thread...

>>6107883
Yeah, yeah, and you're gonna claim that you are one of those, of course. Figuring out one of possibilities, that hadn't been confirmed and had a lot of problems, has little to do with leaving no room for discussion.

>>6107883
I'm kinda angry at this statement. How the fuck was Yasu and DID even hinted in the first 4 EPs?

>>6107913
People (myself included before I read EP7) make too big a deal out of Yasu. She's not a fourth personality; she's just Piece Beatrice herself, who was hinted to be the original personality in EP6, albeit with subtlety. And there were actually quite a few hints about DID looking back, especially in EP2.

>>6107913
They were hinted a lot, actually. Of course, it's much easier to look in the past now.

>>6107938
care to provide some of these "lot" of yours? You know, besides the "Never seen together in front of Battler" (as long as he held detective authorty, of course)

>>6107953
Help yourself and read the archives.
And re-read ep2, keeping in mind the solution and not just brushing everything away as unreliable.

>>6107913
People more or less figured out the existence of someone like Yasu before any Chiru arcs were even released. For the personas thing, there are a metric fuckton of hints when you go back and look at Kanon and Shannon's interactions, especially in EP2, a lot of people just hated the idea at the time, myself included.

>>6107913
woah, never said anything about yasu or DID meido. I was saying Shkanontrice.

I noticed the 1 line about Rion(lion) in Ep1. shkanon was one of many theories.
There are hints for yasu (ex. sayo).

The way I saw it was if you guessed shanon/sayo/shkanon then you're right.

>>6105601
>This part is just stupid. Not being able to rewrite their memory because they are "supposed to be the same person because they share the same body?"
I have tried to beat some sense out of your sentence, but I give up. What are you trying to point out? Where do you pull that "rewriting their memory" from?
Shanon and Kanon don't know Lion, which by itself is obviously meant as a huge hint. Questioning that doesn't lead you anywhere.

Leaving that aside I don't understand why Shanon calling Kanon would force Will's loss. I mean, it is palpable what was tried to show to thick readers, but why would it yield an unfortunate result for Will?

>>6107953

Isn't the whole EP2 enough for you?

For God sake, get over it Shkanon was confirmed. Even supposing there is a real Kanon said real Kanon wouldn't be the one shown inside the game. The Kanon Jessica is in love with, is Shannon.

EP6 made it clear, just some fags closed their eyes and denied it with pointless arguments, and even now there is still people who try to convince themselves.

>>6108026
Oh, I believe in Shkannon, turst me, and I'm also against people who refute the theory with the "never stop thinking" line (there's GOT to be a point at which you can say "this is what happenned"). I just want a quick rundown of scenes and such instead of having to spend 6-8 hours AGAIN with EP2

By the way, was this the final episode?

The end didn't feel like that at all (especially the matter with Lion and Will), but Ryukishi has once mentioned he wanted to do seven episodes. So, what is the situation?

I believed in ShKanon back during episode 4. I was 90% sure it was true, and there were a lot of people like me, but when episode 5 came along I figured it denied it and forgot about it. Episode 6 made me 100% sure it was true. Arguing with /jp/ for the subsequence 6 months made me only 70% sure. I'm glad it's finally settled.

>>6108050
One more episode, which must be the tale Battler puts in Beatrice's coffin and promises nobody except him and her will know if it. Then he just tells Ange and thousands of reads. Battler has a real problem with promises.

>>6108050
one more, od course, last eps come in DVD, not CD, case

>>6108050
nope, EP 8 is still left.

>>6108053
it's always nice to learn tidbits of info in Theories debates, uh?

>>6108048
Uh. Here I was believing this was Kanon having low self-steem...

>>6108048
Most people thought them not being human was about them being personalities, but it seems more like there is some problem with Yasu's body now which Yasu thinks disqualifies her from truly loving anyone. Like being intersexual.
>But if we could replace that unfulfilled part, wouldn't that mean we could become human?
>.....that couldn't happen
>No, it could. If we can gain that, we won't be furniture. We can become human.
>.........Ridiculous. ...As if you, .......could."
lol

>>6108091
That also reminds me of some rather rough remarks by Beatrice as to what love is; that love cannot exist without sexual intercourse.

Then again, how does "removing" Beatrice and Kanon make Shannon human in that sense? There is no way it would heal her/his sexual deficit, since it's physical.

>>6108154
Only one gender can be chosen. The male personality would be discarded, then some sex fixing operation would take place making Shannon a woman, funded by tonnes of gold. Or vice versa. Something like that, I don't know.

>>6108172
Problem is that sex change operations weren't allowed to be legally done in Japan until the late 90s.

>>6108190

Screw rules, I have ten tons gold.

>>6108190
I'm pretty sure someone with access to the wealth of the Ushiromiya family could find a way around that.

>>6108050
Both Bern and Battler go on about next episode being the last, so nah.

I do hope Lion and Will show up again somehow, otherwise their ending is too horrible, but I have this sinking feeling they probably won't.

>>6108319
Erika called, she's offended.

>>6108326
Who?

So... Last one I played was 4.
Of all family, Battler and Maria are the only decent ones?

Worst family ever?

>>6108362
Serious answer: it's a screwed up family, but people have their good sides and their bad sides. For example, Eva genuinely loves and is devoted to her family, but she's fucking greedy and refuses to stop nursing her grudge against Krauss about the headship to the point that it screws up her judgment. Krauss, on the other hand, also loves his family but was pretty much the worst sibling ever.

>>6109934
FUCK YEAH GOHDA

i hope some of you have readed the novel in japanses because your japanese is perfect........

remember that most of us readed this throught atlas.....

so its ´possible that we have some wrong ideas.....

>>6108190
>Problem is that sex change operations weren't allowed to be legally done in Japan until the late 90s.
thnx for the lulz
nazi gold
submarine
island
billionaire familiy
crazy maid
sluts/manipulators
did meido
bombz
white chickz in japan.
but oh sex change operations are too far off, it's border line MAGIC.
NEVER PUT ANYTHING PAST KINZO

>>6110051
OH DESIRE

>George: [...] withheld a letter that was meant for said uncle/cousin causing the tragedy.

Huh, when was that mentioned?

>>6111080
It's just speculation, not impossible though. In ep7, when Kyrie brought the letters from Battler to all cousins and handed the envelope to George.

>>6110051
>>6110242
>>>/a/

>>6100696
You mean 'Asumu wrote Rudolf fell on his knees'.

>>6111172
Asumu is dead. Get over it.