/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Also about that scene with the letters.

Was I the only one that instantly thought that George hid Battler's letter for Shannon so he could get her for himself?

Never confirmed it's intersex/genderless.
It's just a catbox, until we know the truth both possibilities exist.

>>6053657
Yes, most people thought that as well. It fits with how he got Shannon to fall in love with him by creating opportune situations.

But isn't Yasu's condition supposed to be caused by the fall?

>>6053659
Just like F&Z

>>6053659
>>6053665

Yeah I thouhgt about that. The scene was with Genji and Nanjo there and what it said was along the lines of "Why did you save me even with this body? It would have been better to die with this body that can't even love. With this I'm not human, I'm furniture."

Obviously the first time this talk could have happened was after Yasu solved the epitaph and learned the truth. Anyways it definitely sounds like it's concerning the fall... and well even though it is not explictedly stated I'm pretty sure that it's intersexuality.

First of all the gender was always ambigious with the female/male servant thing and secondly in this game Will explictly asked Rion what his/her gender was but she didn't awnser. So it is possibly that it might have been from birth since well... Rion didn't take the fall. But maybe Rion is just actually male and Yasu broke his penis off when he fell down the cliff?

>>6053675
Yeah, intersexuality doesn't fix with the incident, and the positions on damaged body basically were:
"But if he broke his penis by falling down, how come he rages only after 17 years?"
"He just got to know he could have died 17 years ago, instead of keep thinking it was a natural thing."
Choose the one that makes more sense to you.
Also, consider that the flashback could have also happened before the epitaph. They don't mention Natsuhi or Kinzo at all, Yasu just mentions the incident. It could have happened even before, if Genji omitted the part about his real family.

I still think R07 with make an asspull in the end and make Leon male and Yasu female (her real name being Leonore)

>>6053693

Well obviously he would rage after 17 years because before that he was too small to notice and he didn't have anyone to blame.

Also what are the positions on the promised "no happy end"?

>>6053696
I like the idea of Yasu being called Leonore

>>6053717
It works aswell if Yasu is female and her vagina/womb/ovaries are totally fucked.
Well, Ryu has still a shitload of questions to answer in EP8.

>>6053756

Yeah. I mean I just ca't believe that Natushi actually gave birth to Jessica herself. I mean why should she suddenly get pregnant? Unless it's actually Krauss that's impotent and she had an affair.

>>6053717
Ryu said that he considers to make a bittersweet end in one interview.

>>6053857
It's not that strange. You immediately become pregnant only in hentai.

>>6053946

George is like four years older than Jessica. Natsuhi and Krauss married before Hideyoshi and Eva. Do the math.

>>6053950
And? You probably didn't hear about couples that can't make the children for years and then finally able. They exist.

I really hope will isn't dead ;_;

>>6053964
Don't worry, he's Bern's piece now, so maybe she will play with him like with Ange sometime.

>>6053964
catfood, leave it already.
Also Battler is back, and Will did his work as avid reader.

>>6053962

Well of course they exist, but until know pretty much every strange thing in umineko has lead to something. It would be a huge fucking troll to put this obviously strange thing out in the open and then never mention it again.

>>6053972

Yeah. Bern is the gamemaster so I guess she could bring him back. I wonder if he and Ange could cooperate?

Also at the beginning of tea party I realy thought this was gonna be "beato's happiest story" Battler wrote. I wonder if that's what we can expect in ep7?

jesus christ the executioner is an awesome bgm

>>6053987
It seems now that, unfortunately, Jessica was the one giant red herring, hence her all her abnormalities and small strangeness. So I doubt it will lead you somewhere. And Bern strongly implied that Jessica is Natsuhi's daughter, while telling the truth about his birth to Lion.

>Bern is the gamemaster
Battler will kick her ass to show the story for Ange.

>>6054117

Yeah well she did. She said "It seems she liked the one child that climbed out of her own womb better". But that still leaves the possibillity of Krauss not being the father.

>>6054117
>Battler will kick her ass to show the story for Ange.
THIS.
Also, I hope Ryu will explain how the hell Tohya knows so much about the Ushiromiyas in EP8.

>>6054141
because she is a witch you moron

>>6054233
Witches don't exist, grow up, fucking retard.

>>6054255
then prove it faggot..
oh, right, you cant, now get out

>>6054233
>>6054255
>>6054279
Umineko in a nutshell.

>>6054279
Uh has anyone ever seen a witch? No? Thank you. God exists too amirite?

>>6054255
ill never understand anti-fantasy fags. I understand disregarding the idea that crimes where done by waitress and bunny girls in reality, but rejecting everything that seems even remotely supernatural is just fucking stupid. Why the hell not, this is a visual novel

>>6054285

I laughed. Truer words were never spoken.

>>6054287
i dont know, i cant ask all of 6 000 000 000 people

>>6054279
>>6054255
>>6054233
>>6054285

>>6054313
Because they are fucking concepts, goddamn you retards.

>>6054342
>implying his oppinion is an objective truth

>>6054352
>implying it wasn't stated directly in the game countless times

>>6054342
..right, "Beatrice" may be the concept of the rules of Rokkenjima or whatnot in the world of humans, Gaap can be the concept of loosing things and so on, but that all doesnt mean that there are no higher level of existence in the world of WTC. In fact if there wasnt, there would be no Umineko

>>6054373
...and Bern may be the concept of cold, heartless mystery-like reasoning, and Lambda may be the concept of the hard work and strong will to accomplish your goal and Featherine may be the concept of the forger/author/theoretic, but that doesn't mean...oh, wait, it does.

>>6054420
oh wait it doesnt

>>6054420
that way you can say every character represents something

We don't have all of these characters and meta-world being 3/4 of the story for nothing. Stop playing detective, kids, fantasy is involved.

Looking with love means accepting every factor of Umineko to find the truth. You all lack love!

Tohya knows because she's a witch. The culprit can be a human or it can be magic. Trust Battler, it's not a harsh story.

They even say that witches are supposed to be readers/everyone who theorizes/plays with umineko.
The red "no happy ending truth" was basically introduced by "to all those witches out there who are still hoping for an happy ending".

>>6054446
Every meta character. Because meta-world is the world of concepts.

>>6054466
i can clearly see every other character, outside of meta world, also representing some concept

>>6054480
You can see all you want, but 'real world' is still just real world.

>>6054285
I was just passing by.

>>6054490
FUCKING CHOKED LAUGHING

>>6054233
>>6054255
>>6054279
GJ GUYS

LOL

>>6054461
this is only interpreatation and if you like breaking the fourth wall, aside of that, its implied in the story a lot that other witches observes how it all develops

>>6054490
oh god, i think i love you

>>6054233
>>6054255
>>6054279
Get off /jp/ Beatrice and Battler, both of you.

>>6054490
>>6054490
>>6054490
>>6054490
>>6054490
>>6054490
>>6054490
>>6054490
>>6054490
>>6054490
>>6054490
>>6054490
Best thing ever

>>6054490
You can't prove that witches exist.
You can't prove that witches don't exist.
Both statments are true, as well as false.
Why don't you just sit and enjoy the thread then?

>>6054489
no, saying that half of the characters are only and only concepts because they are meant to represent something while the rest characters also represents something is not right

>>6054512
i wonder..

>>6054490

>>6054490
I laughed so hard. Thank you, you made my day.

>>6054514
It's the rule of the story, so it's right. Thankfully it doesn't depend on your wishes.

>>6054489
no, in the end this is a story, a VN, and in a story ALL of the characters are there so author can present his/her ideas or show some problems

>>6054552
Right. And he clearly presented them as personifications of concepts, over and over. Yet you still try to deny that.

EP7 gave all the anti-fantasy fans an edge to bitch from.

You have to consider every angle. Fantasy is there for a reason, Ryu didn't develop Beato throughout 6 games--and her and Battler's relationship--just to have her be erased by the fact that she is part of someone else. While, yes, I think it will be that she is the IDEA of Beato, it will be more than just that, i.e. she is still her own entity.

The TRUE backbone of the story is "Without love it cannot be seen." If you look at only one side of the fucking thing with all this nonsense that there is no magic--or if you say that there is only magic--you are in the wrong VN.

>>6054539
its true only for some characters and even so, they are concepts only in the point of view from "real world', that doesnt mean the meta world is not real on its own layer

Whose the better couple, Will and Leon, or Battler and Yasu/trice or Bern and Lambda?

>>6054564
no thats not my point. If someone decided to write a story about your life, you, as a main character would be personification of some concept, but would that mean that youre nothing more than that?

>>6054567
How the fuck does it change the fact that meta characters are just concepts? It almost doesn't concern her.
Also Beato is dead, won't revive again and was doomed from the start, get over it.

>>6054603
Bern x Lambda ftw
Next i would put Battler x Beato
Will x Leon is fine also but i didnt have enough time to grow to like it so much
also if Leon is a girl then epic fail

>>6054609
'I' as a character would be 'I' as character. If 'I' would be some concept, it wouldn't be me, so of course that 'I' wouldn't exist.

>>6054611
because you are a moron and lack love

>>6054611
I think you just lack love, bro

>>6054629
At least I'm not retarded and can read what's written.

>>6054629
fuck yes hivemind

>>6054626
do you seriously not understand ?
whatever, fuck this shit

>>6054636
I bet you don't believe in the bunnies on the other side of the moon either, huh?

>>6054636
except you can't, thats the point

>>6054646
It's you who don't understand a simple vn. Yes, get the fuck out.

>>6054654
i think you shouldnt behave like you knew it all if you are the one who approaches only one angle in a visual novel whose author clearly stated thats wrong

>>6054707
Except I don't. You can perfectly see it from both angles, while at the same time knowing the true nature of these illusions. That's how your witches work - they can deny themselves at any time with red, because they know that magic don't exist.

>>6054751
except you qualify everything as illusion and thats not even the point of the series

>>6054814
Not the same guy but I think you're too dismissive of the illusion portion of Umineko. It's there for a reason, accept that. I dunno how you read all of 1-7 and maintain that idea.

>>6054814
As if you know the point of the series.

>>6054823
It has real-world meaning, that's the point.

>>6054835
the main point at the begining was to prove that the crime was possible to do using only human methods, later it changed to understand the 'heart' of Beatrice
there was never said anywhere that the point of the series is to prove there can only be and in fact is only world of humans and that nothing supernatural can actually exist outside of it.

>>6054603
Kanon x Jessica kyaaaaaaaaaah! ^___^

>>6054855
And? That's not the point of the game, I agree. But it was also stated and implied, over and over, that supernatural in Umineko exist to provide metaphors and personifications for the real-world events and concepts, not simply on its own.

>>6054872
that the supernatural that happens in 'real' world is most probably a metaphor, of course i know that. Its obvious. but that doesnt mean everything (and by that i mean developments in the meta world) is just illusion.

>>6054924
But there are no major "developments" in meta-world, that don't correspond to the events of the real world. They depend on real world. You can do something "with magic", but the end result must match the reality.

>>6054959
no, you are still thinking about what happens on a gameboard and im talking about things not related to the gameboard (well, not exactly)

>>6054959

Meta World is the best part of Umineko. All the character development and best romances happen there. Not to mention that meta characters are much more interesting than real world characters.

>>6055086
Agreed. I actually like BeaBato and I'm hoping the odd Beato death in EP7 will have some magical explanation in the end. I absolutely refuse to believe we'd spend all this time on her just to throw her out. The people with this "She's dead, get over it" crap are full of themselves.

Anyway, none of these debates will ever be solved without EP8, so let's hope it has a satisfactory ending for all.

>>6055086
>All the character development and best romances happen there.
Um...no? But even if yes, those characters are still exist in reality and their development applies. It's not like meta-world is some isolated place, that's just interpretation of their thoughts, emotions, etc.

>Not to mention that meta characters are much more interesting than real world characters.
Maria, go to bed, you shouldn't be browsing /jp/ at all.

>>6055344
>It's not like meta-world is some isolated place, that's just interpretation of their thoughts, emotions, etc.

yes it is,
Interpretation of their blah bal happens only on the game board and gameboard isnt meta world

>>6055086
hm...BattlerxBeato, LambdaxBern, WillxLeon, Dlanor/Erika...i think you may be right

http://www.alchemist-net.co.jp/new-project/

SO FREAKING CROWDED siiiiiiiiiiiiigh

>>6054603
Of course it's Beato x Battler, they're the core of the entire series and have had seven episodes of development. Will and Leon had a hell of an impressive showing for a pair that showed up this late in the game for only one installment, though, both as individual characters and as a combination.

>>6055395
No, it's not. You said in the beginning that Tohya is a witch, but she writes the novels in the real world too. And this is more than just gameboard.

Umineko used to be fun to read.

Now it's just convoluted bullshit which can't even be called a mystery anymore.

>>6055438
What's the matter too DEEP for you?

>>6055420
the fact that she writes novels doesnt mean she writes everything including meta world

>>6055453
Yes
Umineko is too deep for me

There, I said it.

>>6055463
Maybe you should reread the novels.
Ange talks to Tohya and mentions witch Featherine, that means that she was in her novel along with meta world. Besides, if there's no meta-world in her forgeries, then her latest ones would be quite thin and pointless.

>Not to mention that meta characters are much more interesting than real world characters.
i agree, i love zepar and furfur

>>6055411
No middle-aged men/bromance. Fail by default.

>>6055463
>>6055500

She also very specifically insults readers who put too much value on the "words written with the red ink."

So, anyone have any theories about the previous Epsiodes now that we know most of the backstory and some of the truth then?

I'd say EP1 was Yasu's ideal outcome. All the cousins alive, near the end and a final confrontation/talk with Natsuhi, the one who dropped her. It's also the one where she kills her accomplices all together. EP2 seems more like her plan B. What if she got one of the adults into her plan? Rosa did meet the head after all.

I'm a bit vague about EP3. The first twilight seems odd.

EP4 seems the most fun, with Kyrie I think taking control. I wonder about the dining room shootout though. Did Rudolf get killed in the crossfire? Maybe Yasu went in with her accomplices, held them hostage and the adults suddenly acted. Rosa throwing a chair maybe.

I'm sure Kyrie sent Kumasawa and Gohda out to the kids.

This leaves us the problem of Krauss and Yasu though. Plus Kyrie getting killed near the end AND still corroborating her trumped up story about golden threads and magic.

>>6056992
If you're going to be basing all of this on the "truth" of EP7, then 1-4 do not matter because they're fanfiction. At least, that was my impression.

And from what I know about the Tea Party in EP7, that was the "solution" to EP3, because Eva escaped and raised Ange.

>>6057250

I don't care whether it matters or not. I still want to solve it. They were made to be solvable. It's exactly like reading a mystery novel.

Was it stated that it was exactly one is to one with EP3? I get the feeling that Beato would modify her game away from what really happened.

>>6057307
No. EP7's tea party, as presented, doesn't correspond directly to any episode. It's just what happened, period.

>>6057307
1-4 are ALL modified far from the truth. I can't say for sure (in red, snicker) that 7's truth was specifically with 3 but I remember seeing discussion about it. So all of the Evatrice stuff would have been just a bizarre paint-over what really happened with Kyrie and Rudolph.

Personally I don't think 1-4 are as solvable as many people think. I think if it was THAT solvable, at least one of the many, many Umineko fans would have figured it out. It can only be turned into a mystery truth with the most complicated and convoluted thinking ever--

Would YOU ever think (EP7 Spoilers) "Oh, Evatrice is an illusion piece of fanfiction and what's actually happening is Kyrie and Rudolph are shooting everyone and Eva escaped off the island to Ange to swear to raise her better?"

>>6057346

Then it's up to us to find out what happened again in EP3, since I'm nearly positive that Ryukishi won't devote time and space to explaining the previous episodes in detail. The readers were just given a key, it's up to them to unlock the lock.

Assuming Eva really did find the gold and was not the killer, and that Yasu was not taken out early, I wonder what really happened there?

>>6057346
That makes sense, then. Ignore my stuff about Evatrice.

>>6057359

I think they're still solvable, except that even if you solve it you won't find the "truth of the real incident" or the "why of Beatrice", since the clues for those were probably scattered through the tale with no direct connection to the murders. This seems to be her, and by extension Ryukishi's, great trick.

My take on "Without love it can't be seen" is that Battler stopped worrying about the murders and focused his attention on the mystery of Beatrice and that this was the real solution and objective to her game.

Besides, weaving a tale as EP6 shows involves an A side, and a B side, fantasy and mystery. This kinda implies that there are solutions. Given what we know now, I think we can find a solution even though by their own, the episodes are unsolvable.

>>6057419
THIS is what I fucking like to hear. You can't just take one side and run with it, Umineko has fantasy and mystery for a reason.

>>6053696
>I still think R07 with make an asspull in the end and make Leon male and Yasu female (her real name being Leonore)

Unneeded, if he uses Leone (French pronunciation), then it sounds the same as Leon, and can keep the name gender neutral.

Guys, episode seven tea party and episode three are both pretty damn diffrent. I mean Rosa was pierced by a fence, Kyrie, Battler and the others were still in the guesthouse on the second day ALIVE not being massacred while Kyrie, Rudolf and Hideyoshi went to the mansion etc. etc. the list goes on.

The only common thing is that Eva survived alone in the end. Except not necessairly. In episode seven tea party Battler's fate is still uncertain. He was called to the chapel because Rudolf wanted to convince him to join him and Kyrie to go to Kuwadorian, but Rudolf was killed before Battler arrived. So yeah, the Battler is Amakusa theory still hasn't been completely disproven even with this version of the truth.