/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>7 days
4 days, you mean.

All depends if George knows that his fiance is a boy, and a witch, and a bomb, and a pony

>>5902900
>bomb
Joji planted the bomb

>>5902900
>pony
Joji rode the pony

George-Culprit Theory (with screencaps)

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=3166557&postcount=14814

>>5902900
>boy
Joji forced her to crossdress

>>5902900
>witch
Joji forced her to cosplay

>>5902900
>witch
Joji ruined the joke

>>5902922

hmmmm reading that.its all starting to come together now..

eva wanting the headship...hideyoshi crying in ep5....george never talking to kanon...beatrice covering up the crime...

>>5902975

>george never talking to kanon

WAIT. Is this true for ALL episodes?

>>5903020
yeah.
George nay talk ABOUT Kanon, but he never engages Kanon in conversation.

>>5903031
>>5903020

Fuck. I swore to god after Sixth Sense I wouldn't let this happen again.

>>5903031

I can't believe I never noticed this. They must have been in the same room at some point though, but if they never talk does that mean george knows that shannon=kanon?

>>5903057
Of course he knows. Think back through the contest. George was just as accepting about all the weirdness as Kanon and Shannon were. The only denialfag was Jessica

Because she's delusional. And the culprit.

>>5902877
>>5902922
>>5902975
>>5903031

Umineko solved?

>>5903096
Joji culprit doesn't even explain fucking closed room in 6

>>5903096

Not even close. This is all circumstantial, and could just be another red herring ryukishi put out there to troll everyone who tries to solve the mystery like jessitrice theory

>>5903105
if you mean Battler's room, Shkanon can solve that
if you are talking about the cousin/next door over rooms, there is no closed room. Beato tricked Erika into removing the seals

With all the emphasis, they're all getting, there's no doubt in my mind that the culprit is going to be all three of them (Jessica, Shkannon, George), working together.
Absurdly complicated mystery, absurdly complicated solution.

>>5903126
What about battler's sin? Nothing to do with joji. Plus he was confirmed dead in 5, 3, 4, and mess load of other eps. Isn't jessi/shanon/shkanontrice more reasonable?

>>5903139
I think two at most... It was stated in Knox or Dine that there must be ONE culprit with ONE assistant at most who doesn't explicitly carry out most of the murders. (We don't even know if EP3 EVA counted)

She will come back, right guys? ;_;

>>5903105

Yeah it does. The window in the next room over wasn't checked at the time of logic error. Guess who is in that room?

George
Shannon
Hideyoshi
and the people George payed off with Okonogi's money...Kumusawa and Nanjo

So you could make a case that George and Shannon escaped, George rekilled the people playing dead in non-erica kakeras, and Shannon somehow transforms into Kanon to help out Battler.

The mechanism for the shannon --> Kanon transformation is unknown but the evidence is all there to make a case for it.

>>5903147
>sin
Battler flirted with Shannon in front of him, making him feel like shit...AND THAT'S UNFORGIVABLE

>>5903147
Pregnantrice theory. Shannon is already pregnant with George's baby. And she already named hime George. 'George is dead' = mother and her unborn George are dead but our Joji is still alive and kicking ass.

>>5903126
>if you mean Battler's room, Shkanon can solve that
Not without lots of bullshit, just like every other theory so far.

>>5903190

thank you for your worthwhile post, would you mind letting us hear your bullshit theory?

rhetorical question, trolls never contribute.

>>5903157
No, there can be any number of assistants (within reason, of course), just with the one mastermind coordinating them all.

>>5903168
Battler will sneak her into EP7 and she'll become the surprise hero of the fantasy side. Calling it now.

>>5903170
>>5903176
The fuck? I guess.......don't forget the small bombz that killed mini-joji.

I though the 5 dead were done by Erika.

>>5903212
>your bullshit theory
I have no bullshit theory, why would I have one? If it's bullshit, then it's because it already has a strong point that denies it, unless I believe the author is fucking up with the readers.

>>5903236

>non-erica kakeras

Erica is a writer's tool to help explain the narrative. She's not real.

>>5903230
Also, a last-second beatdown of Wright by Dlanor is mandatory.

Deal with it.

>>5903170

didn't goerge jump out of a window in Ep 3? if he did that to actually murder the 1st twilight victims (who if i remember corectly were servants) than what killed him and shannon??? Or did they die for real?

fuck i need to go back and read it

>>5903258
If I don't get my manry Witch Hunter versus Endless Sorcerer showdown there will be rage

Sorry to break it to you guys Japanese don't get killed by FAT FAT FAT like gaijins.

>>5903147
don't remember ep3-4, but George's time of death was never confirmed in 5, he could have just die by bomb

>>5903339
Think all we know about Georges death in 3 is that he died before Jessica, Eva and Battler. In Ep 2, I don't think they were in the habit of confirming every death yet.

They all made Beatrice together, and they're all culprits.

>George chose the third opinion
>Kanon is Kinzo
>My face when Kanon chose the third opinion

>>5903190 Not without lots of bullshit, just like every other theory so far.
Kanzo, homunculus theory and 'Featherine is wrong in her works' do not create that much of it, actually.

The only thing that keeps my anti-shkannonness afloat is faith in Ryu07. I believe he won't resort to using an unknown form of DID. We've had had enough of Hinamizawa and pseudo-science-fiction already.

>>5903256
That's what he wanted to say right now, you know?

>>5903552

Ryukishi seems to like writing about traumatized orphans and mental disorders in his murder mysteries. You see the same pattern in umineko, just put together differently.

However, I don't think it will be DID. I think it's just grimdark psychosis mixed with clever word-games.

There's no shortage of sane reasons to be pretending to be two people.Nothing involving DID needs to be taken seriously.

>>5903657
>It's perfectly sane to pretend you're a boy and have a relationship with your best friend behind your fiancé's back

I've been absent a while when moving, the fuck is the Joji theory? I'm assuming it involves George.

oh man /a/ had an absolutely historical George theory last week with pictures and all...they archived it but I got no idea how deep down its buried by now.

>>5903729
easymodo has nothing.

>>5903754

that's disappointing, it was funny as shit.

>>5903718

I'm writing up a recap of Joji's shenanigans...I think it's quite robust.

>>5903729
I remember the hilarious Nanjo threads from several weeks ago, though.

>>5903795

the one I'm referring to involved countless references to how fat George was and ended with him forcing Erika to marry him.

"It was good to be...George"

So, how come nobody is solving the closed room cases? Too hard for you? If you don't solve it Beatrice wins.

>>5903842

imokaywiththis.jpg?

>>5903808
anyone have that "Battler and George break into the room to find Jessica finishing fucking shannon" fanart

we might find something by searching for posts with that picture, that what the OP was

>>5903842
nobody was really dead in the closed rooms.

Umineko solved. Now just wait for Bern to troll you in a few days.

>>5903842
This is not a bad thing.

>>5903842
All closed rooms have been solved in various ways already.

BUT STILL. We don't know how many rival parties on the island, who does the stakings, is there a pregnant woman with already named baby or not, how many masterminds and killers are on the island, etc. WE. DON'T. KNOW. SHIT.

>>5903871
They were all dead, stated in red

>>5903883
>All closed rooms have been solved in various ways already.
lies.

A witch did it.

>>5903883
>>5903894

awh shit we're getting to the juicy part.

I need to visit /jp/ more often for some theory threads.

>>5903890
Only time when all deaths were confirmed was E3 with exception of batt/jess/eva. AND E4 with Battler.
Jessica/shannon is culprit and was killed by EVA in 3. In 4 suicide due to Battler no remembering. Last surviver dies from bomb except eva who left to gold room

>>5903907

>>5903894
Which one wasn't? Throw it at me.

Captcha: obbliter you're

people still believe in the bomb nonsense? Even when there's no mention or foreshadowing of it ever?

>>5903919
You're doing it wrong, you post your solutions.

>>5903933
Did you even read the novels?

>>5903907
You'll mostly get that single one butthurt Shkanontrice fag who somehow manages to be online all the time, forcing ShKanontrice, telling people that they have no reading comphrehension, unable to make a single compromise about it. Yet, destroying any creative or even enjoyable discussion about it.

Captcha: offilmon 50-year-olds
(Guess I should note that Natsuhi is awesome anyway.)

>>5903842
>implying Beatrice is still a villain who needs to be defeated

>>5903933

I'm just hoping the bomb theory isn't true cause its boring.

on an off topic question, I'm trying to think of a way to describe seacats to a friend of mine whose into anime and I think he'd like the VNs.

"Granpa sacrifices the family in an occult island ritual to revive his dead girlfriend. Plan fails when grandson challenges her to wizard's Chess." just doesn't cut it.

I'm thinking of saying its like The Shining + Shutter Island + The Blair Witch Project + the game of Clue. He has no idea what Higurashi is.

>>5903961
Fucking force him to read it and tell him its magic, and you aint gonna explain shit.

>>5903984

>>force him to read it

would rather not, it's really annoying to have someone try to shove something down your throat.

>>5903961
That actually sums it up in a much shorter and cooler sounding way than I thought possible.

>>5903961

Try Agatha christie+Scottish Play+Stranger than fiction

>>5903933
>>5903961
Execute Erika in Ep6 tips. Rokkenjima Explosion Accident is what you're looking for.

>>5903842

To be honest, Umineko's closed rooms now bore me. If I want juicy impossible crimes, I just go and read some Golden Age Mysteries. For me, Umineko isn't a how'dhedoit, but a whodunnit. That's it's central appeal and charm.

I have a theory that the "endless nature" of Beato's scenario means that all sorts of closed rooms, and murders are possible, so I see them as immaterial. The real mystery lies in the various triggers and backstory required for the murders to happen, and that's where we should focus our brainpower on.

Take for example the closed room murders themselves. Why create an elaborate murder scenario like that, when it's simpler to kill and clear evidence? Why focus so much on the Illusion of the Witch? What does this acheive? A bunch of scared and despairing targets? And why do the murders still follow the epitaph even though different people are killed differently?

This is what interests me.

>>5903961
Just tell him it's a mix of mystery and fantasy

>>5904008

which part, the one in quotes or my addition?

>>5904010

I don't know if he'll know what I'm talking about with the first two, but that IS a bit closer than my own equation.

Though I think The Shining really does deserve some addition in the equation.

>>5904024

I thought that was a shoop, checking now...

>>5904066
The quotes.

> The Shining
What, you think the mansion itself is Beatrice?

...Wait a minute...

>>5904035

The closed room murders always bugged me for that particular reason. They were too deliberate, too risky (it puts everyone on guard), and seemingly serve no purpose but to further the legend of the witch OR draw attention to her.

Who would gain from such an act?

Kinzo? It could be an occult ritual he concocted to "revive" her. After all, her existence will live on forever in the popular mind. (1998 shows this) But his being dead kinda stops this.

Battler? Is this all a message connected to his sin? To remind him? But he nearly never does.

The culprit? But the smokescreen of the witch wouldn't protect him from long. The police would see through it in an instant. Then does he plan to die there, and only scare the inhabitants in that one particular moment? Why, why, why?

The one thing that's always bothered me about Umineko theories is how no one mentions the fact that Battler described the character of Beatrice perfectly(or loosely rather) in the flashback in EP6 before Beato's "poem"

What this makes me wonder is, does this mean whoever was there during that time, A) Convinced Kinzo the woman of his dreams is blonde, busty, and blue eyed? Or is it more of a right place at the right time?

I've been racking my brain trying to figure that out, but so far all I've been able to conclude is that's Kinzo he's talking to in that flashback(which would be far more disturbing over Jojitrice, Jessitrice, and Shkanontrice combined)

>>5904244

Its to convince people that Beatrice exists, and to make them play her game (solving the epitaph), while at the same time deflecting any suspicion from the actual human culprit.

>>5904305

Why?

>>5904314
Because if people don't solve the epitaph and get to Kuwadorian, everybody will die. At least, that's probably Beatrice's reason. Things go badly fairly early on each time, though.

>>5904339

So why does she need to convince people that Beatrice exists?

Why does she need to kill?

If the people's survival is her goal, why not warn people?

If their survival is not her goal, and only solving the epitaph is, then what is the point of doing this?

Does she die? Is dying part of the plan?

>>5904383
> Is dying part of the plan?
Probably not, but once Beato's plan gets fucked up then who knows what's going to happen.

Someone on the island knows about the time (SMALL NUCLEAR) bomb but doesn't know where Kuwadorian is. He knows about the time when bomb goes off. He knows that bomb cannot be diffused and goes off by any contact. He plans to leave the island on 2nd day but storm messes up his plans. He isn't Beatrice.

Kuwadorian has a bomb shelter, Eva was there at the time of the explosion so she was able to survive.

So you need to have a mental disorder to create a being from your mind and act his part in front of other people?

>>5904468

X cannot be

Nanjo
Genji
Possibly Kumasawa then

So this X knows that everyone is going to die by bomb. What does he do?

>>5904491

Maybe no one knows about the bomb...or the person who does always dies before they can escape or tell everyone about it..

>>5904513
More like Battler is the only person who knows but doesn't remember.

http://gadetection.pbworks.com/Notes-on-the-Detective-Story-by-Raymond-Chandler

Umineko as a whole tramples nearly everything on this list.

>5. A mystery serial does not make a good mystery novel. The "curtains" depend for their effect on your not having the next chapter to read at once. In book form these curtains give the effect of a false suspense and tend to be merely irritating. The magazines have begun to find that out.

>11. The murderer must not be a loony. The murderer is not a murderer unless he commits murder in the legal sense.

I laughed at these ones.

It will be revealed as the one Beato is following.

>>5904296
Well, imagine meta-Kinzo being Kanon.

Somehow, Kanon got convinced there.

IN OUR CHILDHOOD THERE WAS ANOTHER BOY ALL ALONG

>>5904296
Kinzo made that portrait as a personal request of his beloved son.

What the baby from 19 years ago would have been like if they had been raised as the true successor of the family.

>>5904604

So Kanon is actually Shannon?

And George is accidentally gay?

Maybe Shannon died some time before and Kanon split his head to accommodate her. This requires George being a stupid fuck, but I don't care.

This is amazing.

>>5904633
>This requires George being a stupid fuck, but I don't care.
No... not really.
George doesn't want to have sex until marriage and they didn't see each other that often.

>>5904632

That's actually fairly good.

But Player Battler doesn't know her at all. Which leads credence to him being Fiction from EP1. So maybe EP7 is the "real" Rokkenjima, and Krauss and Natsuhi really had two daughters all along.

Somehow Tohya was able to deduce this from EP 1-2.

>>5904659
>her

>>5904659
>daughters
Whatever you say, bro.

People bashing at anime should watch it just because. It reveals pretty interesting things like bag of Sakutarous in EP4 or Shannon's painful expression after she gets ring from George in EP1.

>>5903157
You're thinking of this the wrong way.
George is the true culprit, but Shanon is the damsel in distress. She has conflicting emotions, and a complex about being "lower than humans".

Part of her really does love George, but another part of her knows she's being forced into the relationship, and George is really possessive, as the screenshots showed.

In other words, Battler's sin is with Shanon, back 6 yeas before, where he evoked George's jealous rage (which lead him to his plan of killing everyone).

THAT is Battler's sin, and THAT is why it's so closely tied to every's deaths. If he had swept Shanon off her feet as his own, or if he wouldn't have flirted with Shanon in the first place, George may not have had such strong feelings to make her his own and try to act like some sort of king.

Speculation, of course. I was able to piece many things together with the George theory. The guy said he wasn't trying to prove the red, he was trying to find the core of the mystery. That's a very nice approach. Try to figure out the core first, then try to tackle the red truths from there.

I'm combining Goerge with ShKanontrice (I never thought this theory would work on its own, it needs something else backing it up as well).

Still trying to think of how Jessica fits into all of this. It's possible Shanon was desperate for someone to take her away from George's closing grip on her, even if it meant Jessica. Would explain why Kanon is so hesitant at first before final giving in when Shanon's time has reached its end.

>>5904696
Quoted the wrong post. Meant to quote >>5903147

Can't wait for captcha to be removed so I can quick-reply again.

>>5904696

So why the closed rooms?

Murder I can understand.

Murder by closed rooms when it makes no sense to do so I cannot.

>>5904709
Explained in the link. George is a showoff, he likes fantasy and the occult, and he probably wants to prove he's smarter than everyone.

So, who are Kyrie and Rudolph? Batman/Robin? Joker/Joker? Neither?

>>5904713

That seems like too big a risk to take don't you think?

How about Beatrice? Is hiding under her legend merely convenient for George, or is it central to him that her legend be taken seriously?

>>5904716
Two guys who died twice on the first twilight.

>>5904716
Yandere Culprit and Harmless Asshole.

Kyrie is yandere and Rudolf is tsundere.
Perfect couple!

>>5904716

First, Kyrie is most probably has Yakuza connections thanks to her family. She's dangerous, smart, used to fights, knows borderline illegal shit etc. etc. I like to connect her to Krauss's troubles with "shady people"

Second, Rudolph according to Zepar and Furfur, is an idiotic cheating fuck who cannot give a full human's love, and thus his relationships are sure to fail.

The big twist Ryukishi is gonna pull is probably showing that their marriage is rocky as all hell and Kyrie is about go full Yandere on Rudolph.

>>5904727
What if he just shows off his mental skills by creating closed rooms?

There is another party, they see George's prowess in battle and know that it's him who commits murders but don't interfere directly at first. They do the stakings and draw circles to make him nervous. They confront him later.

>>5904751
spoilers: rudolf pulled the babyswitch because he honestly liked asumu better. kyrie going apeshit incoming.

>>5904766
Then why cheat on her with Kyrie for all those years?

>>5904773
Because he's a cheating asshole in general. He's still cheating on Kyrie in the present, you know.

I'm the only one who thinks that groups of people on the island confronting each other is complicating things too much?

>>5904766
No, you see it was because of inheeeeeritance

>>5904780
It's pretty much a given by now that there's both a Fake Murder Plot and a Real Murder Plot going on and overlapping somehow.

>>5904786
I honestly don't see any clues or reasons to think Rudolf would have been particular interested in the succession or inheritance at the time of Battler's birth.

>>5904766

I like this. It would be wonderful.

>>5902922

The only thing I can fault with this with is the implication that George likes fantasy better than mystery. It seems to have shaky grounding, the caps don't cut it for me.

But yeah, servants obeying him and him having knowledge on magic slipped by me. Props to Ryukishi and that poster.

>>5904777
If he didn't care about her then why cry over her death.

>>5904791
I can see how groups of people exist but I don't see how they confront each other.
The culprit group just kills people because that's how they roll.

>>5904801
Caring about Kyrie doesn't mean he can't cheat on her or like Asumu better.

>>5904791

Aside from trolling Erika, why would there be a Fake Murder Plot? I don't think that makes sense in earlier games. Everyone was so goddamn tense.

Why didn't Battler find any weapon next to any of the corpses at the end of episode 4?

>>5904812
Erika doesn't exist.

>>5904796
You don't need a particular reason to want 20 billion yen.

>>5904801

Kyrie seems pretty cool with Rudolf getting some bitches on the side and says that Rudolf always come home to her anyway and cares for her. Which is true.

But he still isn't giving her full love so their relationship is going to fail.

>>5904819
The gun fell down the well.

>>5904820

You didn't answer my question.

>>5904696
Damsel in distress theory works out pretty well.
"This child has nothing to gain from these murders."

She may be following through with them, under George's orders, but she certainly won't really get anything out of it. It's George who benefits from it.

Battler promised that he'd come save her with a pony, or some shit. She was waiting for the day where he'd do just that.

>>5904822
In a mystery story, you sure do if you want it enough to pull babyswitching conspiracy shenanigans. Knox's 8th and all that.

>>5904832
Lambda fed us some shit about the fake murders being to troll Erika. But Erika doesn't exist. Ergo, the fake murder plot must actually have a non-Erika motivation behind him.

>>5904819
Beato gave Maria instructions...
She told her to find her corpse at a specified location, get rid of the gun and stake the corpse.
Of course Maria isn't strong enough so she just leaves the stake next to the corpse.
Then she goes to the dining room and swallows the poison that Beato gave her.

WHY WASN'T NANJO'S CORPSE STAKED AS WELL

>>5904827
Who sealed the well?

>>5904468
Well, George knew about the storm...
Rudolph did that "Imma die, lol" thing. Don't think that's relevant to the bomb though.

>>5904835
>This child has nothing to gain from these murders.
That was never said.

>>5904856
The well has a grate cover, not a solid lid. That's how it was described in the novel, at least.

>>5904577
#11 can be fixed with Joji as culprit. He's not a loony fuck. His ideals are insane, but he's got everything planned out perfectly and has reason for it all.

>ep2
>Gohda and the other servants are trying to explain what happened to Nanjo and Kumasawa but they can't.
>George looks at Gohda.
>Gohda starts telling the story.

>>5904835

Wow. My theory fits perfectly there. Too bad it's contradicted by facts. It solves everything.

Was the epitaph really put up just 2 years ago?

>>5904845

Right. Which is a problem, because it's severely out of character for the Ushiromiyas to act out fake murders out of the blue. Another mystery then.

>>5904884
>Was the epitaph really put up just 2 years ago?
It was put up at the same time Kanon started working as a servant, if that helps.

>>5904845
The fake murders are used to coerce Natsuhi/Krauss to let them into Kinzo's room.
Remember how Eva went to Kinzo's room after ep5 first murder.

>>5904897
No, the epitaph went up two years ago. Kanon started working three years ago.

>>5904881

>>5904903
The problem here is that Natsuhi herself is a part of the fake murder plot in Episode 6.

>>5904863
Yes it was. I think it was in EP 5, when Virgilia was giving Battler hints on Beato.

I'll try to find the scene for you.

>>5904919
I think you're mistaking your red truth a bit, but I see what you're getting at. Even if you didn't mean murder, it still does kinda check out with the scene you're talking about:

# This child has nothing to gain from having someone solve the epitaph.
# The gold of the Golden Land belongs to this child. She had absolutely no need to make you find it for her or to snatch it away herself.
# Whether the epitaph's riddle is solved or not, this child stands nothing to gain at all.
# Regardless of whether the epitaph is solved or not, Beato has nothing to gain.

>>5904919
She said that "This child has nothing to gain from having someone solve the epitaph."

>>5904928
>>5904929
I think Battler goes on to reason with Virgilia that this probably means the murders mean nothing to her, too, since it's "solve the damn epitaph" that's driving them. It wasn't in red, though.

>>5904918
Erm, they were framing Natsuhi with fake murder plot.
Hideyoshi was just acting when Natsuhi saw the whole thing from the closet.

>>5904943
You're talking about Episode 5.

In Episode 6, Natsuhi is one of the actors in the fake murder plot. One of the people who then get beheaded.

>>5904928

According to that, then Beato's only gain is to have Battler remember his sin and probably stop the murders.

So can we agree that 'personalities' only count as one person while alive but start counting as different people when they die?

Going back to EP3, what was the general solution to:
Kyrie was thinking that food was unnecessary
[And yet, she herself] suggested that they leave the guesthouse to get food
the reason she changed her mind was not told to anyone, nor was it written down
Until the last instant before she died, Kyrie preserved her pattern of behavior which states 'not going to get food=not going to the mansion'

?

>>5904957

I think Battler got that one right with the accusing/blackmailing Hideyoshi.

>>5904957
Battler figured that Kyrie wanted the question Hideyoshi about Eva's possible role in the murders. A lot of people think he was probably wrong about that, though, and that it might have been something more malicious on Kyrie's part.

>>5904727
>That seems like too big a risk to take don't you think?

A risk he's willing to take. Remember, he thinks of this as one big test. He's trying to prove just how much of a "true leader" he is. If he can't get away with this, then he's not fit for the title he's given himself.

The legend, as speculated, may possibly be the clues needed to get the fuck into the bomb shelter. Whoever can't make it back, dies.

I actually think that at the end, Shanon really does crack and betrays George, then suicides when Battler still doesn't remember.

Meanwhile, Eva solves the riddle and gets the fuck away from the explosion. She really doesn't even know much about what the fuck was actually going on, so she's not completely lying when she's interviewed and stuff after.

Still thinking out the theory a bit more. May be able to find more stuff when I re-read tomorrow to find more Joji hints.

>>5905021
>I actually think that at the end, Shanon really does crack and betrays George, then suicides when Battler still doesn't remember.
More like, she betrays George, then goes to kill Nanjo, and then suicides.

>>5904942
>X=0
>Y=0
>X+Y>0
Gentlemen, behold... the wonders of mathematics!
I'm too lazy to screencap.

>>5904801
Wow bro.
That was really mean.

Even if he's cheating on her, it doesn't mean he doesn't have any feelings for her. Even if he DIDN'T have feelings for her, they've been through a lot together. You don't have to fuck your best friend to cry when they die.

>>5905033

Cleaning up loose ends of course.

Nanjo is pretty much confirmed accomplice anyway. Being the only doctor on the island makes you valuable.

>>5904708
If you use 4chan X, see: http://userscripts.org/topics/57445#posts-272527

I wonder what they REALLY were doing in Natsuhi's room in ep2. You don't think that they went there and turned the room upside down just to find some "magic" mirror?

Anyone want to explain the red text at the end of EP 4?

I mean, bomb theory can solve this, but what bugs me is that she specifically states "You are all alone on this island. And of course, I am not you. Yet I am here, now, and will kill you"

Unless the bomb is named "B-E-A-T-R-I-C-E 082" or some crap, I can't see how this fits with anything. He's alone on the island, so I ruled out the "it's Shanon as Beato" thing.

Did we ever come up for a conclusion to this?

>>5905133
Looking for CONDOMS so they could FUCK on HER BED.

>>5905085
did they fix the quick reply?
I uninstalled when the captcha kept fucking up

>>5905143
Her corpse is there and while she was alive she set up Battler the bomb.

>>5905143
Basically it's Beatrice's HEART that makes the riddle. Take that as you will.

>>5905143

Battler remembered his sin and committed suicide because he was drunk, in despair, and his family is all dead and he blames himself for it.

Beato is the cause of his death and she exists in his memory.

Also note that the last we see of Piece Battler is his ascent to the staircase, where he's sure to see the portrait. He had his eureka moment there.

This is my take.

>>5905176
"As he was held by the witch, he went to hell."

You guys must be blind if you think George is normal and not creepy at all.

>>5905190
Or maybe we just connect with him too much and want to believe he's the fat virgin who scores meido-san purely ;_;

>>5905189

What a poetic way to die. Being held captive by a rush of memories and blaming yourself. Or he could be imagining her at the end. People often see what they want to see near death.

You now realize that 'demon king' is the fantasy metaphor for 'culprit'

>>5905153
Dlanor? Is that you? Children shouldn't talk about such things.

>>5905190

Nobody thought of George as normal after EP4.

George: The overindulging over loving side
Jessica: The oomph, the power, the smarts
Battler: The binding force, the TRUE LOVE.
Maria: The occult, the obsession with.

As i pray

UNLIMITED KINZO WORKS.

>>5905219

>>5905176
>>suicide
>>"and of course, I am not you"

>>5905226

Fantasy scene. Every scene with kinzo in it is a fantasy. No one truely knows what he truely thought of his children/grandchildren apart from himself. Sure he was a cruel bastard but would you put it past kinzo to be the tsundere type?

>>5905242
Fantasy scene which is still supposed to have a meaning, however

>>5905242
>No one truely knows what he truely thought of his children/grandchildren apart from himself
We know that he didn't like Eva out of the kitchen

>>5905239

She is not him. I never said otherwise.

Battler remembered his sin, and the truth about Beato and the murders and killed himself.

She is the cause of his death. She killed him. The murder weapon was just Battler himself. He was thinking about her when he died.

>>5905190
Geroge acting creepy is a red herring. George is not the culprit.

>>5905247
The meaning is that Kinzo didn't consider any of the people mentioned a worthy successor.

>my face when people obsess over Knox and Dine rules when they have never read any one of their works, and are totally unfamiliar with Golden Age Mystery.

>my face when people are obsessed about Knox and Dine rules even though they have never read any of their works and are totally unfamiliar with Golden Age Mysteries.

You now realize that Nanjo, Jessica, George Battler and Maria and Beatriceare the only characters who survive the first twilight and make it far into the tale in Beato's games.

>>5905282
nop. only Nanjo.
EP5 and EP6 proved you wrong

>>5905487
>in Beato's games

Beatrice promises to stop the killings, if the epitaph is solved (in letters, in red and Ryu confirmed it). The epitaph is solved in ep3 and ep5, but the murders still occur. Why?
In ep3, after the epitaph is solved we see a coronation of a new witch, which is then proceeds to kill people in Beatrice's place. By now it should be clear that 'Evatrice' is an evil witch, personification of evil, sinful thoughts. In this sense she's not unique to Eva and we see her with different characters. In Eva she was born from anger and greed, so 'Evatrice' killing people is actually Eva's greed killing people. Because Eva was greedy and decided not inform all others about her discovery, Beatrice didn't stop the ceremony - she just didn't know that she should.
In ep6 Battler and Erika solved the epitaph again. After that Erika went to the guesthouse and played cards with cousins a little. Because Battler wanted to keep the discovery a secret, she made him a favor and didn't tell the cousins about it. So the only people that didn't know about the fact that the epitaph is solved are cousins and maybe Nanjo, Gohda and Kumasawa. The next day the murders occur again - at least we know that Krauss was definitely killed in the morning. The rest may have been faked and killed later; or killed, but their corpses are lying elsewhere and some fakes lying in the room (Erika never checked, other people aren't reliable) or died from the explosion in the end. All that means that the killer must be in this "unknowing" group. Fits good with that 'George-culprit' theory and Jessica can have some role too.

>>5905718
Forgot the screen.

>>5905718
Because they didn't solve the epitaph. They were mistaken to think finding the gold solves it. Not true. You have to find the gold and disarm the bomb.

I, for one, am rather uncomfortable with the fact that everyone seems to say IDK LOL when it comes to Jessica.

>>5905763
Better then the fucking moon-chan thing a while ago. That was even more annoying than "LolGeorge is culprit true fax" and "Kinzo raped everyone"

>Going back to EP3, what was the general solution to:
Kyrie was thinking that food was unnecessary
[And yet, she herself] suggested that they leave the guesthouse to get food
the reason she changed her mind was not told to anyone, nor was it written down
Until the last instant before she died, Kyrie preserved her pattern of behavior which states 'not going to get food=not going to the mansion'

?

The impression I had when I first read it was that Kyrie had solved the epitaph or come close to it, which is why she wanted to go back to the mansion with a cart. The problem is, I can't figure out why she would want Hideyoshi around if this was the case.

Also, I'm 90% sure that the solution Battler came up with on the spot was wrong, because of this:

>And (to give my Credo an even score of items) I herewith list a few of the devices which no self-respecting detective story writer will now avail himself of. They have been employed too often, and are familiar to all true lovers of literary crime. To use them is a confession of the author's ineptitude and lack of originality. (a) Determining the identity of the culprit by comparing the butt of a cigarette left at the scene of the crime with the brand smoked by a suspect.

It's in #20 of Van Dine's rules. Even though the story doesn't follow them at all, the preview opening shows that Ryuukishi is well-acquainted with Van Dine. Having Battler use the cigarette butt as the basis of his solution is probably Ryuukishi's way of indicating to people who know anything about mysteries that it's the wrong answer.

>>5906001
>I can't figure out why she would want Hideyoshi around if this was the case.

wolves and sheep puzzle

>>5905813
FUCKING MOON-CHAN! had its time and place. Back then, the Shkanontricefags were really egregious, and people seemed to ignore the fact that Jessica was mighty suspicious.

But I think the answer to Jessica's oddness is going to be a bit more complex than her being a female Adachi.

The line "The GIRLS said "Without love it can't be seen" makes me a bit, well, antsy. Sure, it could refer to Shannon and Maria, but I have this feeling that Jessica is in on the whole COMPLETELY FUCKING INSANE witch thing.

>Thread begins about FAT FAT FAT
>It's ignored in lieu of the lesbian who is in the process of NTRing him
Isn't it sad, Joji?

>>5905757
The bomb is not the only killer, if you haven't noticed. The killer is 'Beatrice' and *it* promises to stop killing.

>>5906260
No, treating your best friend and her emo alter ego as two separate entities is completely normal.

The reason why there has been a moratorium on Jessica discussion(I.E. the IDK LOL aspect) is not because we all don't think there's something severely wrong with her, we do, it's because we have no idea to what extent that goes to.

Like seriously, Ryukushi could have her be the second Battler, he could have her be Beatrice 2.5, he could do whatever the hell he wants with her at this point in time.

>>5906295
Second Battler sounds more appropriate with the recent decriphering of 07151129. Also, Jettler sounds way more awesome than Jessitrice.

>>5906309
>decriphering
You mean that Asumu garbage?

>>5906318
More like that Kyrie one. That blue baby syndrome operation performed on 11/29 seems plausible.

Well, with the whole Jessica perhaps being the other Battler, she is quite similar to Battler, she has DAT LAUGH, DAT PERSONALITY, and of course DAT 18 YEARS OF AGE.

They also seem to be into black haired, flat chested lolis.

The only strike against it is the mothers day tip, which doesn't explicitly have Natsuhi give birth to Jessica, but it does have her hold Jessica as a newborn.

Of course, that doesn't deny the theory in the slightest, but it's something to keep in mind.

>>5904881
I don't know which one i would rage moreto , Joji being culprit or ShKannon being right....
>In the end
>>Joji is the culprit.
>>ShKannon helps him.

Arggg, I didn't want to get in on this again, but this lasted over night. I blame spamming FAT FAT FAT.....

Throwing a wrench in your jojitrice theory w/ shkanon<--seriously worst than shkanon/jessitrice crap.
12. There must be but one culprit, no matter how many murders are committed. The culprit may, of course, have a MINOR helper or co-plotter; but the entire onus must rest on one pair of shoulders: the entire indignation of the reader must be permitted to concentrate on a single black nature.

Joji
was killed/confirm in most games before the 9th twilight, so there was still someone left killing.
doesn't explain how HE found the gold or would give it up if someone else found it.
FAT FAT FAT FAT FAT

>>5906501
Let it be known that Jojitrice bs outlasted the glorious emp-

ALL HAIL BRITANNIA!!!!
ALL HAIL BRITANNIA!!!!
ALL HAIL BRITANNIA!!!!
ALL HAIL BRITANNIA!!!!
ALL HAIL BRITANNIA!!!!
ALL HAIL BRITANNIA!!!!
ALL HAIL BRITANNIA!!!!
ALL HAIL BRITANNIA!!!!

>>5906501
George ate all the gold, golden land is actually just his stomach.

That also explains the moving/vanishing corpses, he swallowed them down as well.

>>5906509
"No..... Way......I LOVE CHOCOLATE BARS COVERED IN GOLD!"

>>5906501
Solution: culprit = mastermind, not individual manipulated killers.

And if you want the single culprit, then it could only be Shannontrice/Shkannontrice. And this is ruled out by another Van Dine's rule:
>11. A servant must not be chosen by the author as the culprit. This is begging a noble question. It is a too easy solution. The culprit must be a decidedly worth-while person — one that wouldn't ordinarily come under suspicion.
Solution: change the rules, use retarded wordplay.

What do you prefer?

>>5906540
You mean like this?
A servant =/= 2 servants
It is a too easy solution = hard to solve
The culprit must be a decidedly worth-while person =/= FAT FAT
One that wouldn't ordinarily come under suspicion = Shkanon/jessi -trice

<--- YOU PREFER THIS SHIT OVER SHANON/JESSI TRICE?

>>5906553
Yeah, something like that.
>It is a too easy solution = hard to solve
It's so very hard to notice dozens of many page passages about their shit.
>One that wouldn't ordinarily come under suspicion = Shkanon/jessi -trice
Especially considering that she seems the only capable killer in some episodes. Yeah, definitely not suspicious.

>>5906563
>>>/a/

>>5906553

Jessica and Shannon have been consistently made out to be the most suspicious.

George is an intelligent, affable man 'loved by the whole family," who wouldn't normally come under suspicion (unless you were looking hard for clues)

I don't have anything to add here, but man, for a guy who can't come up with any theories himself this is awesome to read.

>>5906292
Beatrice created a game. She set the bomb to go off on the second day. The epitaph is the answer to finding and disarming the bomb. She makes them believe the witch Beatrice exists and kills to get them to solve the epitaph. She wants them to think that solving it is the only way to survive.

It's all a game to her. She doesn't care if she wins or loses.

Just to clarify, when I refer to Beatrice I'm not referring to Meta Beatrice. Meta Beatrice is not responsible for the murders. Meta Beatrice is a separate entity created by the person calling themself Beatrice.

>>5906501

George - Mastermind
Shannon - Underling

Remember the letters from EP4? They had the same handwriting as beatrice's from Maria's magic book and the bottle.

It now becomes easier to assume that George had Shannon write the letters among other things. Shannon is George's waifu, and furniture to boot. Why would she disobey him?

Whether she loved him or not, it seems the whole point of wrapping the tale in magic was to hide the face that george is evil, along with most of the family.

And, of course, the whole point of the plot was for someone to figure out where the gold was hidden. The letters from beatrice in every episode explicitely tell people to solve the epitaph and find the gold, if they do that "then even the interest already taken will be returned" i.e "hey guys we were just playing dead"

The George culprit theory doesn't feel right to me. Not enough evidence supporting it. George acting 'evil' in a few scenes and being close to Shannon is what the theory is based on, and that doesn't cut it for me.

Jessica is a more likely culprit. She's with Shannon a lot more because they live in the same mansion. When Kanon faked his death in EP1, Jessica was with him. Beatrice refuses to say "corpse of" Jessica in red in EP2 during the second twilight. It's been said in red that "Natsuhi is pure and chaste" This red is more important than most people think; It's telling us that Jessica is not Natsuhi's child.

>>5906599
YOU KNOW WHAT?

THIS MIGHT BLOW YOUR FUCKING MIND, BUT PERHAPS THE REASON THAT SHKANONTRICE AND JESSICA ARE SUSPICIOUS IS BECAUSE THEY ARE THE FREAKING CULPRITS.

YEAH, IT'S SO FUCKING SHOCKING THAT THE MAID WHO CAN SURVIVE RED TEXT AND BE ABLE TO KILL EVERYONE IN ALMOST ALL THE EPISODES WOULD BE THE CULPRIT.

IT'S ALSO COMPLETELY UNREASONABLE TO THINK THAT THE PERSON WHO IS IN SOME FUCKED UP LESBIAN RELATIONSHIP WITH THE MURDERING PSYCHOPATH IS, HERSELF, ALSO PSYCHOTIC.

IT MUST BE A RED HERRING, THE FATASS WHO HAS NOTHING TO GAIN BY KILLING EVERYONE MUST HAVE DONE IT, NOT THE TWO PEOPLE BESIDES MARIA AND KINZO WHO ARE COMPLETELY OUT OF THEIR MINDS.

>>5906764
>Natsuhi is pure and chaste
>Pure and chaste

Natsuhi isn't a virgin, though.

>>5906764
In retrospect
>Jessica is not Natsuhi's child
Most of us figured this out already, Natsuhi could not get pregnant no matter what she did, and then suddenly one day out of blue herp derp i am pregnant with jessica our child

I'm guessing she's one of the kids from the orphanage, just like Shannon and Kanon

>>5906664
What's your proof that they didn't solve the epitaph completely? Maybe the point is not to disarm the "bomb", but just to find a (possible) shelter in Kuwadorian, like Eva did. And we don't even sure that it's a bomb. It's just some explosion, called 'accident' in the future. Maybe it has some advance signs of occurring and if one knows where to hide away from the mansion, he can survive.
Don't bring up Hanyuu, what she says doesn't necessary mean what you say, it could really be just that those manipulations to find the gold are possible only for someone on the island.
And what's the point to continue killing without further notice after the epitaph has been solved and gold was found? People just won't get what the witch wants from them anymore.

Anyway, my interpretation still stands.

>Meta Beatrice is a separate entity created by the person calling themself Beatrice.
Meta Beatrice is a personification of the rules of this world, which probably includes all parts of it.

I remember when everyone thought Jessica was the culprit.

Now George is the culprit and Jessica is a bro? Wat.

>>5906794
Where's your proof that they did solve the epitaph completely?

>>5906764
Yeah, you brought up SO many proofs in your post, now everyone will be convinced.

>>5906769
Typical shkannonfag.

Wish you retards will just die.

>>5898337

>>5906805
It's stated many times by people and witches, including Beatrice that they did.

>>5906809
So when Shkanon is proved right when Ep7 comes out, will you kill yourself?

>>5906774
Jessica is the true Sayo. Kanon exists and crossdresses as "Shannon".

>>5906826
Nonsense. Unlike you we're not married to a single theory, and some of us even accept that Shkanon remains a possibility. We've hedged our bets.

George is too much of an unlikable asshole to be a R07 culprit.

>>5906866

He's only unlikable in /jp/

Joji is the culprit. Even Captcha agrees.

>>5906888
The George hate doesn't allow them to see the truth.

>Without love it can't be seen

>>5906840
You ignored like 20 or so reds there buddy.
>>5906770
But she's pure......Natsuhi is probably BEST wife in umineko. Rosa is crazy, Eva is crazy and a bitch, and Kyrie is manipulates...the man she LOVES.
>>5906769
No one like that gay tub of shit lard

joji is worse culprit out of cousins and shk-ons. With the exception of Battler. Even Maria has more credibility than joji.

>>5906968
How so? I love hating George.

>>5906975
>I don't like George so he can't be the culprit! Lol lesbians are better xD

>>5906987
5906975 Here. YES I LOVE LESBIANS!!!

Then again you could make some bs story about how Battler's sin was to claim that he would DEFINATELY return to marry Shannon, so Joji knowing battler/jessica would ntr his waifu decided to kill everyone. He would never get the approval for marriage anyways so 2 birds 1 stone. Bank account money could have been his or he could have found it cause he's SOOOoooOOo fucking smart even didn't have to live on the fucking island. then he planted a bomb, created kanon by telling shanon to cross-dress. He's also shown to be able to manipulate situations. Probably Shannon did get NTR by battler thus explaining meta beato.

>>5906801 I remember when everyone thought Jessica was the culprit.
Som still do.

>>5906764
Read that Mother's Day TIP.

Natsuhi abslutely, most certainly,definitely gave birth to Jessica. It's basically the only TIP yet that gave you any information regarding the story.

Unless you count the "I chased Lambda out of the gameboard so I can control her(34) pieces" thingy

>>5906001 Having Battler use the cigarette butt as the basis of his solution is probably Ryuukishi's way of indicating to people who know anything about mysteries that it's the wrong answer.

The whole part with "I have the right to retroactively investigate the crime scene and then solve it based on new unpresented evidence" screams with BATTLER YOU FAGGOT WHY DIDN'T YOU FIGURE IT OUT YET I'VE GOTTA GIVE YOU AN ALTERNATE SOLUTION NOW BECAUSE YOU ARE SO DUMB

>>5907173
>It's basically the only TIP yet that gave you any information regarding the story.
Gohda's TIP is better. This one actually leaves some doubts, so I wouldn't say "most certainly".

And about Jessica and Gohda's tip:
Jessica knows more than she should have. Gohda wouldn't just casually babble about his unpleasant story, but we know that Beatrice read his secret diary, where he wrote about that.

http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/TIPS/Notes_From_a_Certain_Cook
>--I Write it down to forget.
>I wish I, and anyone, won't read this.
>At any rate, I'll probably never have to go through such an eerie experience like that again.......
>>Whaaat a pity! You'll go through that Again!!

You guys can't be serious ;_;

>>5907173
>>Natsuhi absolutely, most certainly,definitely gave birth to Jessica
No, all that tip says is that she held a newborn Jessica in her hands.
Which, if the blue baby switch theory was true, she'd do anyway. Don't throw around terms like ABSOLUTELY, DEFINABLY and CERTAINLY when it's not certain, definite or absolute in the slightest.

I believe it's a huge flood that drowned everyone at the end of each episode.
The Kuwadorian is waterproof.

How plausible is my theory?

this was a very interesting thread.

Thanks guys

>>5907268
>blue baby switch theory

But blue baby syndrome isn't the the same as asthma.
The baby switch would require Rudolf knowing which hospital Natsuhi was in..all the way across from Japan's mainland on the day of Jessica's birth. The realistic chances of that are very low.

The culprit is Kyrie guys, KYRIE.
Mark my words.

>>5907870
But we know for sure he knew where Kyrie was having her baby at the same time as Asumu and it's confirmed he visited there. The babyswitch is Asumu <-> Kyrie.

>>5907173
>Unless you count the "I chased Lambda out of the gameboard so I can control her(34) pieces" thingy
Wait, what? Which tip was that?

>>5908466
Bern's letter or Lambda's diary

Alright, what the hell was this all about?

http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/TIPS/Jessica's_Mother's_Day_Present

>>5910575
I don't know but this screamed about Rudolph, Asumu and Kyrie to me.
http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/TIPS/Sakutarou,_to_Purgatory_Mountain

>You have decided that without you, Maria will be helpless.
>"You, have always been jealous, of Maria's relationship with her mother.
>You as a stuffed animal, have resented Maria and Rosa's relationship.
>You passed days with Maria enjoyably, stole both Maria's independence, and her opportunities to study, you influenced her to be lazy.
>....Maria hated the smell of cigarette smoke, so I'm kind of sad.
>When I had been informed that this sin had been purifed, (I realized that) my right hand had, without my knowledge, been torn to pieces.
>...I have constantly prayed that, I wished to be loved by Maria, .....more than anyone else, and for always, more and more than the day previous. ....that might be, a sin of greed."
>While repenting for these sins for countless years, I became more and more worn out.
>In the wind and rain, I had become completely black, ...rather than a stuffed animal, I was closer to a dust cloth.

>>5903912
>suicide
"You are all alone on this island. And of course, I am not you. Yet I am here, now, and will kill you."

>>5910657
Dat Divine Comedy

Also lol, Ryukishi finally confirmed the Sakutarou thing himself.

>>5905154
If you read the discussion threads on the script page, someone implemented an unofficial fix. Currently working for me. Only thing is you need to get the captcha right on the first try because the refresh button only refreshes the one in the main box, not in the quick reply.

>>5911973
It refreshes it alright for me on FF.

SOMETHING IS MISSING FROM THIS THREAD

>>5912779
Nope, got it right here.

2 DAYS TIL RUDOLFTRICE

>>5910575

It shows that Jessica loves her mother, and natsuhi loves her daughter, which makes jessica more likely to be a hapless dunce getting swept up in a murder plot than being an actual plotter.

What characters haven't been featured in any TIP stories?

>>5915606
Bright, why so manly?

>>5915662
Hideyoshi & Kyrie if i had to take a guess, oh Rudolf to.

In before Ryukishi reveals that the murders are all due to a type of disease that affects the brain. The disease occurs only on Rokkenjima. Or something similarly ridiculous