/jp/ - Otaku Culture

people are just angry that they wasted time reading that terrible manga

>>5893264
Look at those sluts.

All Lunarians are sluts.

>>5893286

First half was good. And it was promising epic battles and Second Lunar War.

In second half we got super shitty danmaku battles that were danmaku battles just in name, Lunarians >>> all plot and shitty "it was all for the booze" tweest.

>>5893292

How is that a bad thing?

>>5893286
>>5893323
You powerlevelfags still mad? Go reread Bleach or something. A big part of SSiB's appeal was precisely trolling the shit out of people like you.

>>5893358
Shut up pedophile, not everyone likes sexualized children

>>5893323
>epic
>war

>>5893323
>In second half we got super shitty danmaku battles
its touhou what did you expect, bleach tier fights?

>>5893384
>shut up

But I don't speak unprovoked. You first.

>pedophile

So liking a manga centered around thousand-years-old mature supernatural females makes me a pedophile? Powerlevelfags and their "logic"...

>>5893427
>>5893384
My word.

>>5893409

SSiB battles were by far the worst danmaku depiction ever.

Many fanmade videos are far better than that crap.

>>5893452
You know what else is better? The games.

>>5893358

By introducing characters that can beat every old character without even getting serious?

That is the very definition of shitty powerlevels.

someone post nasa killing the lunarians picture

I hope you guys arguing over this realize ZUN will most likely just say "Lunarians are stronger than the inhabitants of earth, But Gensokyo isn't on earth. "

>>5893467
To be fair, when has any of the main Touhous ever "been serious"?

Reimu could beat anyone easily, but danmaku is all about play and fairness. She's also too lazy to put forth the effort to take anything seriously.

Also, despite the Lunarians being said to be so awesome, they somehow lose the war to humans.

>>5893467
>That is the very definition of shitty powerlevels.
the entirety of touhou "powerlevels" is based on fights where everyone is "holding back" and baseless claims of power, which makes you buttmad when someone actually beats the "all-mighty" main characters without even trying

>>5893473
>they somehow lose the war to humans

What? Where the hell are people taking this retarded shit from?

Lunarians won the war. To be precise: 7 lazy, unmotivated and cowardly rabbits who run away at the sight of Remilia won the war.

>>5893483

The thing is SSiB shit all over that previous status-quo with claims that lunarians always win. No exceptions.

SSiB is about trolling the audience with Mary Sues, and it worked.

Read a little closer, Yukari is trolling too. It makes no statements on how capable she would be against them.

>its touhou what did you expect, bleach tier fights?

But Aizen is already a touhou.

>>5893524
not enough frills or silly hats

>>5893492
No, no. The Lunar War between Lunarians and Humans. Humans win it. They colonize the moon or something.

>>5893535
But he has butterfly wings. 3 pairs!

>>5893473
>For now, all that's happened is the launch of a primitive rocket to the side of the moon closest to them, but we can't afford to be careless.

Lunar "war" with USA is exaggerated by fanon all the way to hell and back. Lunarians don't even call it a war.

>>5893539

Humans got slaughtered in the end.

>>5893524
This guy has more bombs then Yorihime.

>>5893539

Except that never happened.

>>5893524

We already have two Aizens in Touhou.

Pic related.

>>5893550
no they just left their shit after visiting

>>5893469
yeah i'm waiting for that pic too

>>5893564
Aizen is even more overpowered.

>>5893564
not smug enough

captcha: ze whearer

>>5893564
Aizen was beating Bleachs strongest with ease then he powered up 2 fucking times.

10 chapters later he powered up again.

>>5893566

USA invasion happened in 2004. They tried to secretly build a military base on the moon. You can see the ruins of that base in SSiB.

Best way to get people to dislike a new character you're introducing is having them beat the shit out of the established, loved cast, to show how "awesome" they are.

Remember when they introduced Poochy in the Itchy and Scratchy show from The Simpsons? Kinda like that.

>>5893601
Come on. Yorihime played Easy Modo with infinite bombs.

Her victory was a clear result.

>>5893601

I don't think fans are that butthurt over the fact old cast lost, but more in the fact that SSiB was doing it's best to tell us that lunarians can never loose.

At least before that we could argue who was strong, now it's "sorry but lunarians win."

After reading SSiB I got a feeling Eirin could rape whole Gensokyo while blindfolded.

>>5893502
>lunarians always win

Only they lost.

>>5893621
Reimu or Yukari could defeat anyone, and everyone, in Gensokyo at once.

It's why danmaku exists, to keep the playing field equal.

>>5893586
Sorry, but [citation needed]

>>5893621
You didn't know that Eirins and Kaguyas powerlevel was far beyound the usual powerlevel overkill of the other cast before reading SSiB? Oh wow.

I demand more wincest.

Yorihime gone straight for the win while the cast played a game.
They played a game because Yukari said so.

Yukari herself jobbed to Toyohime so she won`t notice Yuyuko.

It was Gensokyos win.

>>5893645
Finally someone understands how broken Kaguyas power can be.

>>5893645
What do you except from /jp/?
HELP ME EIRIN makes them think Kaguya is weak.

Humans defeat the Lunarians.

After all, they have moon tours in the future.

>>5893645
>>5893668
Regardless of Kaguya's powerlevel, it is canon that Eirin is "far more powerful" than Kaguya and hides her power "out of respect for the princess". Strait from Eirin's character profile.

>>5893668
Kaguya is canon weaker than both Eirin and Mokou.

I was always under the impression she was pretty weak/young by royal-family-Lunarian standards. And I do consider her to be one of the less intimidating 6th bosses, power-wise. I'm not saying she's complete useless, and again just the impression I was under.

We are having way too many moon-related threads.

Yuka with the ultimate magic could beat them.

Its canon

>>5893674
Eirins powers being even more hax than Kaguyas doesn't mean that Kaguyas powers are not hax tier.

The war between humans and lunarians has been going since 1969. Humans gave up but have recently begun launching more probes, which marks a resurgence in the war. This time, the lunarians say the war is going worse than they expected: but not quite that they're losing. The ruined base in that screencap, so far as I can see, is really just the lunar buggy, which is of course still on the moon.

>>5893731
Clearly, Kaguya is equivalent to a queen in eusocial animal species, her role being to pump out more Lunarians.

>>5893637
Reimu not necessarily. It's rather that killing her might have border repercussions, so danmaku (which she always wins at anyways) was invented as a nonlethal alternative.

Why do you people obess so much about the plot of a shooter with little girls ?

>>5893637
>Reimu or Yukari could defeat anyone, and everyone, in Gensokyo at once.

Yeah, sure.

>>5893747
Because Touhou as a whole is much more than just a shooter. Even in canon works only, the games are just part of ZUN's works. He has also written many books, some of which apparently are still not translated yet. Add on all the fanwork, and the legends of Gensokyo are quite vast and intriguing indeed!

That and most of the cast is not so little.

>>5893747
Because (despite common believe) it's plot is interesting.

>>5893743
You know that manga with the girl praying to god to kill everyone who raped her and god agrees?
I always thought she resembles Kaguya a little.

>>5893637

Koishi could make Reimu forget how to breathe.

And all ultimate magic users, oni and high tier gods are easily on Yukari's level.

I always thought Yukari was the "strongest" because she could just undo the border on Gensokyo and fuck everyone over

>>5893792
More like fuck over a huge part of Japan which is probably full of buildings by now and stuff.

>You know that manga with the girl praying to god to kill everyone who raped her and god agrees?
source

>>5893697

Weaker than Eirin, but not Mokou. She's much more powerful than Mokou. And Eirin is the most powerful lunarian.

>>5893806
Really-Miko

>>5893806
I am terribly sorry for not being able to name the source of the piece of art mentioned above.
It's some H stuff. A little girl is raped by quite some men and after they are done she want's god to kill all of them.
God replies that it is not problem at all, the men die and the girl thanks him for his good deed.

It's quite old but it's reposted regularly so just ask or it's source when you see it.

>>5893807
Define "powerful". I'm pretty sure Mokou is stronger/better at Danmaku, at least if Mokou herself is viable. And I guess she isn't since it's Kaguya and Mokou after all.

>>5893840
Moku is not strong, just immortal.
The phoenix is strong.

/discuss

>>5893807
My thourthes indicate that that even other Reithen ith thronger than Mokou.

>>5893740

Fanon bullshit. Humans never even noticed lunarians during the Apollo program. Reisen simply panicked because of exaggerated rumors.

Then in 2004 USA started building a secret military base on the moon. Lunarians got pissed they are exploiting the moon and told them to stop. War started. At first it was going bad for lunarians because moon rabbits were stupid and lazy cowards, but once the sages got involved humans got obliterated.

Then china started it's moon program and lunarians got scared because it was named after the real person and the true leader of the moon rabbits who was imprisoned on the moon (for reasons unknown). Civil unrest and rumors about rebellion started in the lunar capital.

Then SSiB happened.

At unknown point Maribel and Renko are talking about moon tourism. Apparently commercial flights around the moon became possible (but very expensive). Although landing is impossible.

saged reported and called the cops

It's official.

Lunarians are to Touhou as Drow are to DrowTales.

somehow in before "shuttle with chainguns.bmp"

>>5893866

I wonder what ZUN is planning with Chang'e. We even saw her silhouette.

>>5893866
Oh. Are you sure? I wasn't reading SSiB too carefully, so I guess I could have been wrong. But I was fairly sure that in 1969 their intent was to attack the Lunarian capital, but they just couldn't find it.

Also, "Curse of the Heavens 'Apollo 13'".

Also, since everyone is asking for it.

>>5893264
They are so strong they had to rely on summons and moontech. Real strong, derp.

>>5893980

They were pissed that some impure faggots are walking on the moon. That's why Apollo 13 got cursed.

>>5893980

It was only said that capital was never found by the humans. Not a word if they were actually looking for it.

>>5893645
>You didn't know that Eirins and Kaguyas powerlevel was far beyound the usual powerlevel overkill of the other cast before reading SSiB? Oh wow.
>Kaguya
Hello secondaryfan. Have you not fought against Mokou? Mokou turned into a little girl after she fought against Reimu. Mokou was terrified by Yukari's power. Yet, according to ZUN, Mokou has succeeded at killing Kaguya a few times. Also, Eirin IS not as strong as the Mary Sues from SSiB. I'll elaborate in my next post.

>>5893674
It figures I'd find a pooshlmer scum such as yourself lobbying for IN, the easiest Touhou game. Don't you have some emoticons you need to be spamming.

>>5894075

She killed Kaguya few times. Kaguya killed her thousands of times.

Reimu defeated Kaguya, Reisen, Mokou, and Eirin in one night. Eirin lost, even after receiving back up energy from Kaguya. Yet Yorihime defeated Sakuya, Remilia, Marisa, AND Reimu while relying on 0.00004% of her full potential. If Eirin was holding back, then Yorihime must have been play fighting with them. Eirin is clearly no match against Reimu or Yorihime. There's a reason why she's known as the brains of the moon and not the brawn.

Just contrast the way Yukari behaved in IN to the way she behaved in SSiB. In the case of IN, Yukari confronted Eirin face to face and even exchanged insults with Eirin. While in SSiB, Yukari had to cook up a giant plan. As seen with Yukari's close encounter with Shiki, Yukari acts strange when confronting opponents with powers formidable to her own.

Then again, we still don't know Yorihime's inherent powers because in SSiB she relied on her summons too much. If Yorihime fought against her master, Eirin, without her summons, she wouldn't stand a chance against her. And before you go there, the summons are unique to Yorihime according to CoLA and SSiB.

>>5894075
>IN, the easiest Touhou game

PCB with Sakuya is easier than IN with Yukari.

Every single one of the major Touhous is a Mary Sue. That's why danmaku rules exist.

>>5894101
Should I remind you that Reimu was teamed up with Yukari? Should I also remind that Alice and Marisa did the same thing just like Yuyuko and Youmu and Sakuya and Remilia during the events of IN?

>>5894101

Eirin fought Reimu, Yukari and Ran at once. And she was holding back.

>>5894135
If she was holding back, what was the purpose of the back-up energy from Kaguya?

Despite being able to kill Kaguya on a number of occasions, Mokou turned into a little girl after her battle with Reimu. Which suggest, she's never fought someone as powerful as her before. Read it for yourself: http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Imperishable_Night:_Boundary_Team%27s_Extra

>Mokou: You're too strong. What's the point of a trial of guts for people like you?
>Yukari: Well, there are still some things that are kinda scary.
>Reimu: Like jelly donuts?
>Yukari: Yeah, their shape is like a giant insect egg... And the jelly inside, it reminds me of...
>Mokou: My god, jelly donuts are so scary. [Mokou thinks that, 'Yukari is frightening to Mokou', 'Manjyuu are frightening to Yukari' 'Manjyuu will be very frightening to Mokou' (simple chain reaction, huh?)]

This picture contain the most powerful character in the world of Touhou.

And it's not Yorihime.

>>5894101
WHOA! I hate it when everyone fucking treats Eirin like here power levels are less than a stage 6 boss.

If I am not mistaken, she was the one that was casting the spell that would have sealed away the moon etc and AT THE SAME TIME fought with the party AND she didn't want to make Kaguya look bad by using to much of her power.

There is no proof that she is even close to 100%, and if she was, you must take into consideration that she was casting a more or less, legend-tier spell. Even Yukari would take a while and use up a lot of magic trying to do the same thing. Oh, and since she "froze" the night, both her and Eirin's spell going against eachother would also take a toll on both of their fighting ability.

>>5894148
Because, as it states in her profile, she did not on to one up Kaguya in terms of power, and accepted her back up as more of a formality then any real aid as not to make her feel bad.

Eirin and Yukari both are above your petty buttmadness.

They don't care about your power level slapfights, they both kick back and enjoy a mostly-casual lifestyle.

>>5894161

Except she fought Reimu, Yukari and Ran. Not just Reimu.

Yukari said herself few times that she can't match Watatsukis in battle.

>>5894161
>Mokou turned into a little girl after her battle with Reimu
citation needed

>>5894135
Reimu defeated Tewi, Reisen, Mokou, Eirin, AND Kaguya in one night. Sure Eirin was holding back, but Mokou, Reisen, and Kaguya alone should have been able to compensate. Contrast that with Yorihime, who managed to fight against Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, AND Remilia. Clearly Yorihime is stronger than Eirin--who lost even after receiving back up energy from Kaguya. The only two differences between Yorihime and Eirin's fight is that Yorihime relied on her summons and didn't have to face Yukari.

Eirin is older than Yukari, I'm sure in her life full of searching out knowledge would have given her a way find the weakness of boundary-controlling youkai, she was merely holding back.

You fag will argue about anything

>>5894181

Plot exposure:
Yukari intentionally let herself be tied up and hauled off, Ran along with her. Not only was this not harmful to her own plans but it worked in her favor anyway because she herself was creating a diversion as well.

>>5894169
Sakuya, Alice and Youmu also "froze" the night in their reespective paths.

I would actually like to know how this lunar war was even conducted. No way a country can send a army up there without bankrupting the nation, let alone enough material to build a functional frontal base and weapons. Hell, how did the humans push the lunarians to the wall? This would mean that the combat was on the hostile moon terrain and we know that space suits aren't considered top of the line combat gear.

>>5894193
And here you are arguefagging along with them.

This is /jp/'s version of Bruce Lee vs Mike Tyson or Goku vs Superman.

>>5894199
Not canon routes.

Sorry.

>>5894184
She acts like a tomboy, but when confronted with someone with powers she's never seen before she starts saying words like "scary!" Yukari actually did the impossible, she put fear in the heart of an immortal. Or I might be wrong, and she could have been talking about Reimu. She did say, "You're too strong. What's the point of a trial of guts for people like you?" Referring to both of them.

If you read the dialogue up until that point Reimu defeated everyone in IN without breaking a sweat. She wanted a bigger challenge.

>>5894200
Lunarians overreacted; their own defense forces (those bunnygirls with the little guns) were unprepared and they may have been aware of humans' nuclear weapons. If people can travel to the moon, then so can bombs.

Considering all the praise they get from Yukari moonbitches aren't so impressive at all.

Yorihime's ability is summoning gods, something Reimu also can do. And it's not even Reimu's main ability. Sure, Yori is better at that, but she's at least 1500 years older. And Remilia was kicking her ass before she summoned the most powerful shinto god.

And Toyohime's ability is just a far weaker version of Yukari's ability.

>>5894101
Not to mention the fact that Eirin is still just a human. The only reason why she has lived this long is because she has extended her life with drugs. And before you say she's not a human:
-She predated the existence of the Lunarian capital. Meaning she was born on the Earth, not the moon. Which also means she hasn't evolved with her fellow Lunarians (assuming they evolved in the first place).
-PMiSS says she's a human (i.e., earthling) twice.
-CoLA claims that the first Lunarians were humans that built a civilization with no impurities, thus allowing them to live forever--under the circumstance that they stayed pure.
-Eirin no longer lives on the moon.

>>5894193
>Eirin is older than Yukari

It is never stated how old Yukari is. You might want to check on your own facts before calling others stupid.

>Goku vs Superman

The dragon could beat those moonbitches no problem.

/discussion

>>5894200
>how did the humans push the lunarians to the wall?

They didn't. Moon rabbits are cowards and love to exaggerate.

>>5894230
It's not unfounded. Eirin came from a time before the Earth became so impure, when lifespan was still what we would consider fantastic. Not only that, there are a number of references in the materials that suggest that Lunarians have introduced both magic and youkai to the Earth.

>>5894238

Amaterasu > Dragon

Yorihime can summon Amaterasu.

>My face when people start realizing that Yukari can defeat anyone in the touhou universe, and even ZUN has to power her down in certain instances.

>>5894257
[citation needed]

Do we know the lunar capital was ever in any sort of danger? It might just have been a few isolated skirmishes: in fact, given that only a few people have walked on the moon, this is what I'm inclined to believe.

Eirin is the most powerful lunarian. That's not even open to discussion.

And Kaguya has the greatest inborn ability of all lunarians. It's just that she's a lazy, spoiled princess who don't want to train or improve herself at all.

Just read CiLR.

But who'd have guessed that Yorihime was but a level 5 human fighter with the elite array?

>>5894259
Or maybe it just means that she is not the all powerful being that fandom makes her out to be, SSiB and CiLR made it clear that she has her limits.

>>5894269

It was never in any danger. That's outright stated by Eirin in SSiB.

>>5893762
Yukari is essentially a reality bender. Reimu can "float", that is TRANSCEND, physical reality forever and be completely invincible - and still be able to attack.

If either of them were serious, and in non-danmaku, there would be no chance to defeat either.

>>5894285
So, in that case, it probably just means that the lunar capital was protected by its border and a few poor moonrabbits were sacrificed to Neil Armstrong.

>>5894287
What's this about 4-dimensional floating? The only thing I remember being similar was the Subterranean Animism bomb, and that was of limited duration and it was also thanks to Yukari.

>>5894287

Ultimate magic and gods say hello.

>>5894287

See >>5893783

>>5894287
Or maybe these powers can only work at their fullest only in Gensyoko, oh knows maybe it's just ZUN realizing that if everyone had hax powers he couldn't develop his story further, and simply removed them or limited them. Either way, SSiB is his most current vision of a detailed Touhou universe.

>>5894295
Lifted straight from Imperishable Night for Reimu's "Fantasy Heaven"

>Supreme Master-Arts by any means. With Reimu's ability to float, she floats from everything in reality and becomes invincible.

If it wasn't just for play (with time limit), no one could beat her with any method.

>>5894302
Transcending reality says hello.

>>5894287

There are many other characters with just as broken special abilities.

Iku defeats all. She can borrow power from the dragon god!

>>5894326

You are already dead.

>>5894326

So suddenly Aya's word is law?

Suika beat Reimu in IaMP and Tenshi beat her in SWR.

>>5894295
We see an example of this "4th-dimensional floating" in Reimu's Divine Spirit "Fantasy Seal -Blink-." Modified for danmaku-use, you have to outlast it.

The only other card I can think of off the top of my head was close to that was Flandre's Secret Barrage "And Then Will There Be None?"

>>5894342
Except Mokou and Kaguya are immune.

>>5894343
Because those are danmaku duels, where everyone is on a level playing field. We're saying if there was no danmaku and everyone was going all out.

I've participated in every powerlevel thread worth mentioning on /jp/. I've even defeated Suigin on a number of occasions in the infamous Yukari vs Yuka debates. In the end, I won because Suigin is no where to be found (so I win by default).

I knew this day would come. The day IN fans stopped being silent. I don't know if I should waste my time on you guys. The whole point of creating these powerlevel threads was to prove who was the strongest beings in the Touhouverse. So far the only definition of power we've read about Eirin is that "she's an intelligent human who's capable of creating a variety of medicine." As far as powerlevels go, that's pretty timid.

And in the case of the Watatsuki sisters, we've only seen a glance of their 'inherent' capabilities. With a big emphasis on the word "inherent." Yorihime so far has demonstrated she's good at borrowing the powers of her summons, and Toyohime has shown that she's good at wielding moontech (one of the deadliest science in the Touhouverse). The way I defeated Suigin was to ask him a simple question. If you had a child with Yukari and Yuka, which child would be the strongest? Suigin: "well uh, with the Ultimate Magic, uh, Yuka's child would be stronger." I leave you with the analogy of a 15 year old girl killing an adult male with a gun. Is the 15 year old the superior being?

Now a Suika vs Yukari thread would make for a much more interesting conversation.

>>5894346
Suika would win since she is ZUN's self insert

You guys are a bunch of cocksucking faggots, grow the fuck up and leave your mother's basement.

>>5894345
Replace danmaku with whatever else.

If you take Reimu's strength away she's not so powerful anymore.

If you take Yukari's strength away she's not so powerful anymore.

If you take Yorihime's strength away she's not so powerful anymore.

Funny how if you completely flip around the circumstances the scenario can change like that.

>>5894326
Oh, jeez, I didn't know about that.

Well, maybe the fact that there's a time limit indicates that she can't do it indefinitely?

> The way I defeated Suigin was to ask him a simple question. If you had a child with Yukari and Yuka, which child would be the strongest?
That's a retarded attempt at an argument. I would have called you out for trying to use it.

When the Watatsuki sisters were younger I was summoned to the lunar capital a few times as practice. Their peaches were very nice and I enjoyed myself thoroughly, I would love to go again sometime.

>>5894351
Maybe you should grow a pair and learn 2 danmaku.

>>5894346
"I leave you with the analogy of a 15 year old girl killing an adult male with a gun. Is the 15 year old the superior being?"

The hell? If you ask whether is stronger, a fifteen-year-old girl with a gun or an adult male, the answer is the one with the gun.

Anyway, I imagine the so-called Ultimate Magic is just the ability to make pretty flowers or some dumb nonsense like that. Look at the Hakurei orbs' special powers.

>>5894345

Except they aren't really playing by danmaku rules in the fighters.

Here's a real thing to fight over, who would win in a fight

Broly? or Yorihime?

>>5894346
Yukari taught Reimu how to invoke the powers of the Gods in a few days. Yukari obviously knows how to summon but chooses not to because relying on the power of beings stronger than you is for little girls. I guess when your power is on par with the Gods you don't have to rely on their powers.

>>5894101
Yorihime didn't fight so much as she sat back and allowed her summons to do the fighting for her. The few seconds she wasn't relying on their powers she was getting decked by Remilia and cornered by Sakuya. The only person she defeated without relying on her summons was Marisa. And before you say all Lunarians are as strong as Yorihime, let me remind you that Yorihime is the ONLY Lunarian with the ability to summon. The average Lunarian is probably as weak as Reisen or Kaguya. Kaguya gets beat by a clown with matches on a day-to-day basis.

>>5894359
Except those powers aren't danmaku related. They're powers they're BORN with. You CAN'T take them away.

>>5894387
You do get the impression Yorihime isn't allowed to summon a lot, however. She probably has to fill out mountains of paperwork before she can even draw her sword.

>>5894387
Reimu's job is to invoke the powers of the gods. And Yukari just showed up and told her to do it.

>>5894217
>Yukari actually did the impossible, she put fear in the heart of an immortal.

Uh, scaring the immortal by threatening her to go through excruciating pain isn't impossible. It just takes alot of power. In this case, 3 other teams were also able to do it as well. She just happened to use "scary" in the border team. (in the ghost team, she sobbed out of fear of being eaten).

Doing the impossible isn't possible. In this case, permanently killing Mokou.

>>5894387

Reisen was said to be a very talented moon rabbit. She's far above average for moon rabbits.

And Kaguya is a royal princess with an ultra broken ability.

Average lunarian is at the level of those two gate guards with lightsabers who tried to stop Reisen.

>>5894372
>The hell? If you ask whether is stronger, a fifteen-year-old girl with a gun or an adult male, the answer is the one with the gun.
And that's the point. Suigin was arguing that Yuka became stronger than Yukari once she received the ultimate magic. I argued that even Cirno would be the strongest if she gained a one hit kill all attack. Yukari and Suika are the strongest species of youkai in Gensokyo (not including the yama). Yuka is just an above average species of youkai with the ability to manipulate flowers.

Ex Rumia = Adolf Hitler = Hirohito = Advent Cirno = Erwin Rommel = Otto Skorzeny (with Chen fusion. See picutre) = Death Star > Shikieki = Mussolini = Winston Churchill = Roosevelt (Mecha Wheelchair version) = Montgomery = Himmler (Crystal glasses mode) = Reimu > Stalin (1944 upgade) = Tojo = Yamamoto > Yuuka > Yukari > Flandre > Yuugi > Vegeto (SS4) > Eisenhower > Letty (Full power) > Mokou = Kaguya > Suika > Marisa > Remilia > Yuyuko > Ran > Suwako =Kanako > a SS soldier > Gogeta (SS4) > Komachi = Tenshi > Sanae > Eirin > Koishi > Satori > Utosho > Iku > Elly > Nue > EX Keine Wing Gundam > Mima > Goku = Vegeta > Alice > Sakuya > > Patcholi > Orin > Youmu > Lyrica = Merlin = Lunasa > Reisen > Medicine > Keine > Nitori > The Bible > Hong Meiling > "The Scientific Companion" > ZUN > Parsee > Hina > Mystia > Wriggle > Yamame > Starsapphire = Lunachild = Sunnymilk > Black People > Dirt > Poland > Jews > Type Mercury ORT

>>5894346
>I've even defeated Suigin on a number of occasions in the infamous Yukari vs Yuka debates.
No you didn't.
All you did was try to prove the magic didn't exist and failed horribly at it.

So far the following has been confirmed by ZUN:

-Cirno is the strongest fairy of Misty Lake [1]. It is also implied by Shiki that Cirno posses "great power" [2].
-Yuuka is one of the strongest youkai living around Hakurei Shrine [3].
-Ran is the strongest of youkai beast [4]. She's also capable of answering complex equations in milliseconds [5].
-Yukari is said to have one of the strongest powers youkai are known to posses--being comparable to the power of the gods. She's able to solve complex equations that not even Ran could understand. In Ran's article it was said that Yukari is the strongest of youkai. (Note that this most likely means she's the strongest of the 'sub-category' of youkai in PMiSS.) [5][6].
-Aya is considered to be quite fast, even among other tengu. Tengus are said to have very strong physical and sorcerous abilities that compare favorably to any youkai in Gensokyo. A tengu's speed is only matched by the vampires [7][8].
-Suika has been described by Aya as being the most powerful youkai in Gensokyo. Suika has claimed she has enough power to tear down the Mountain of Youkai by herself. She is an old sparring friend of Yukari. Onis are said to posses the strongest physical capabilities [9][10][11][12].

>>5894441
If that wad of text weren't so ugly I'd save it for copypasta.

>>5894379
Brolakuren

>>5894445
>I leave you with the analogy of a 15 year old girl killing an adult male with a gun. Is the 15 year old the superior being?
And he countered that with one of his Aikido analogies.
I miss Suigin ;_;

Ex Rumia = Adolf Hitler = Hirohito = Advent Cirno = Erwin Rommel = Otto Skorzeny (with Chen fusion. See picutre) = Death Star > Shikieki = Mussolini = Winston Churchill = Roosevelt (Mecha Wheelchair version) = Montgomery = Himmler (Crystal glasses mode) = Reimu > Stalin (1944 upgade) = Tojo = Yamamoto > Yuuka > Yukari > Flandre > Yuugi > Vegeto (SS4) > Eisenhower > Letty (Full power) > Mokou = Kaguya > Suika > Marisa > Remilia > Yuyuko > Ran > Suwako =Kanako > a SS soldier > Gogeta (SS4) > Komachi = Tenshi > Sanae > Eirin > Koishi > Satori > Utosho > Iku > Elly > Nue > EX Keine Wing Gundam > Mima > Goku = Vegeta > Alice > Sakuya > > Patcholi > Orin > Youmu > Lyrica = Merlin = Lunasa > Reisen > Medicine > Keine > Nitori > The Bible > Hong Meiling > "The Scientific Companion" > ZUN > Parsee > Hina > Mystia > Wriggle > Yamame > Starsapphire = Lunachild = Sunnymilk > Black People > Dirt > Poland > Jews > Type Mercury ORT

>>5894445
I know. I just posted that in order to bait you out of hiding. Where have you been, I missed you? Let's team up against these IN guys.

>>5894448
Citation:

[1] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Cirno
[2] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Phantasmagoria_of_Flower_View:_Cirno%27s_Scenario
[3] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Yuka
[4] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Ran_Yakumo
[5] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Article_and_Interview:_Ran
[6] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Yukari_Yakumo
[7] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Aya_Shameimaru
[8] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Encyclopedia:_Tengu
[9] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Shoot_the_Bullet:_Level_Ex_Spell_Cards
[10] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Suika_Ibuki
[11] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Scarlet_Weather_Rhapsody:_Yukari%27s_Scenario
[12] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Encyclopedia:_Oni

>>5894379
DBZ characters get an automatic deduction for being the Hard Gay of anime.

>>5894455
.......would get owned by Marisa B.

>>5894454
>Advent Cirno

>Ex Rumia

>>5894193
>Eirin is older than Yukari,
I actually agree with this statement. Eirin is still just a human though, so no matter how much she alters her body she'll never have the supercomputer brain of a youkai. Ran can solve complex equations in milliseconds, yet even Ran's not able to solve Yukari's equations. SSiB was a giant showdown between Eirin's trap and Yukari's counterattack. Yukari saw right through Eirin's trickery, and managed to get her first victory in millenniums.

>I'm sure in her life full of searching out knowledge would have given her a way find the weakness of boundary-controlling youkai, she was merely holding back.
"In any case, there is not a single defense against or weak point in the ability to manipulate boundaries."
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Yukari_Yakumo

Eirin lost in IN despite having no reason to hold back.

Eirin is not the only one who holds back.

[Yukari]
>No matter how confident one is in their abilities, it would be wise not to attempt to pursue this youkai.
>Though, she would likely make allowances for the power of her opponent so as not to allow the battle to become too vicious.
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Yukari_Yakumo

As a matter of fact, all high level youkai hold back.

>post
>series of secondary fags whinning about comics
>my face.

>>5894536
>Eirin is still just a human though, so no matter how much she alters her body she'll never have the supercomputer brain of a youkai.

I have to disagree with this statement. I mean, she's the brain of the moon for crying out loud! And it's said that the human brain is far more powerful than even the most powerful supercomputers.

>>5894536
Being immortal appears to be a weakness for boundaries since even they can't be used to kill them.

What was that about no weaknesses? Sounds like a critical flaw to me.

>>5894581
What do you got to say about that Yukari fags?

>>5894581
Yukari can just manipulate the border between "immortal" and "people who have had their asses kicked".

>>5894536

Yukari bluffs alot. She may be powerful, but she can't do impossible things, even with her ability to manipulate boundries. For example, she can't end all of existence as we know it. "without any boundries, everything would exist as a single, enormous object". She can't deplete or supply matter, only combine and separate it, as manipulating boundaries should do.

I hate it how everyone automatically assumes Yukari to be the most powerful being in Gensokyo just because of that particular ability.

>>5894561
>And it's said that the human brain is far more powerful than even the most powerful supercomputers.
This supercomputer could do more math calculations in 10 seconds than every human on this Earth combined for the next year. The brain is only considered powerful because it has a lot of space.

>>5894581
PMiSS is exaggerating a lot you know, it's the reason why most of these powerleveling threads goes in circles because there is some other bit of canon that contradicts it.

>>5894455

>>5894603
Yukari can't even travel to the moon unless under certain conditions, I really don't know why everyone says she can manipulate the border of everything.

>>5894605
This is gensokyo, and Eirin's full name translates to "Intelligence of eternally clear brightness over infinitely extended area", referring her to be the "Mind of God".
Sorry, but the title of infinitely-knowing being of Gensokyo is already taken by Eirin. There is no dispute who's smarter.
She made the elixir of immortality. THE LEGENDARY Elixir of Immortality. That alone is proof enough.

>-Aya is considered to be quite fast, even among other tengu. Tengus are said to have very strong physical and sorcerous abilities that compare favorably to any youkai in Gensokyo. A tengu's speed is only matched by the vampires [7][8].
>-Suika has been described by Aya as being the most powerful youkai in Gensokyo. Suika has claimed she has enough power to tear down the Mountain of Youkai by herself. She is an old sparring friend of Yukari. Onis are said to posses the strongest physical capabilities [9][10][11][12].

Aya is pretty much like every Tengu however in that she acts sycophantic when she's in the company of someone she definitely knows is more powerful than her. Or maybe she just does that when she's around oni, I dunno.

>>5894581
>Being immortal appears to be a weakness for boundaries since even they can't be used to kill them.
Being immortal apparently wasn't enough to stop Mokou from soiling her bloomers in a battle against Yukari. I see it like this, in order for Yukari to destroy something that was boundless/limitless it would require an infinite amount of energy. Fun fact, even something with mass could travel at the speed of light if it had an infinite propulsion. Yukari unfortunately doesn't have an infinite source of energy.

I'll say one last thing. ZUN's words are not final. There are vast amounts of contradictions in his own writing. For instance, Kaguya's immortality is said to be truthfully immortal. Yet on Eirin's profile it claims she's able to create ANY type of medicine. If Eirin wasn't able to create a potion that stopped Kaguya from being immortal ZUN would have contradicted his own words.

>>5894617
The Lunar Capital is protected by powerful barriers.

I like to look at it this way. In PMiSS it clearly says Yukari's abilities are not limited to physicality, but encompasses the manipulation of abstract phenomena such as the boundaries between life and afterlife, fantasy and reality, and here and there. Just by the definitions alone, ZUN has implied she has the power to manipulate everything; hence, "it's a power on par with the gods." The time, energy, concentration, and resources she needs to be successful with her powers are unknown.

>The ability to manipulate boundaries is a terrifying ability capable of fundamentally undermining reality.
>As you know, everything is built upon the existence of boundaries. If there were no boundaries, everything would probably exist as a single enormous object.
>Thus, the ability to manipulate boundaries is an ability of logical creation and destruction. It essentially creates a new being, or denies the existence of a being.
>Among the abilities youkai are known to possess, this is one of the most dangerous, being comparable even to the power of gods.
Pay attention to the last part:
>It's said that this ability is not limited to physical space, but also applies to pictures, others' dreams, and even stories.
ZUN has left some leeway in the definition of her powers in order to promote discussions (such as the one we're having now). Leaving room for interpretation is the hallmark of good storytelling.

>>5894660

There is no cure to immortality. Otherwise, the medicine of immortality would loose it's very purpose. Hence, there is no such medicine.

It's like saying an omnipotent being creating something that even IT can't lift. Then lifting it.

Well, killing an immortal is something that will require a force even beyond infinity. But there is no such force, because infinity is the highest possible you can go. And same the same concept goes with the omnipotent and the un-liftable object, and why he can't lift it. Well, I can't expect everyone to be this smart.

>>5894691

"I gapped the boundary between oni and non-oni and all I got was this hangover."

>>5894707

>>5894691

Yukari's power is not infinite. That was made clear when she said she couldn't just "poof onto the moon whenever she wanted". And you overestimate her power. It's strictly JUST boundaries she can manipulate. see >>5894603

Fun fact: Yukari is never once actually seen exerting herself. She's either getting her way through minimal effort, or walking away entirely.

Such is the lifestyle of the Mary Sue tier. If it requires you to actually apply yourself then the consequences of your actions may outweigh what you achieve through them; that's why Shinki stopped attacking in Mystic Square when she saw she was damaging her own creations.

>>5894631
Washuu was here, Eirin is a remedial science student.

>>5894707
>a force even beyond infinity
I think I just lost some braincells reading that. Also, in the Touhouverse there does exist an infinite source of energy. It was said in SSiB that Yukari tried to invade the moon in order to get their infinite source of energy. If all Lunarians are as dumb as Kaguya and Toyohime, Eirin was most likely the one who invented the limitless source of energy on the moon. Citation is this picture.

If Yukari could captor and harness such a power she wouldn't have to worry about fighting boundless opponents.

>>5894707
Well, in Touhou there are non-Hourai immortals, remember. Just saying.

>>5894739

...put into simple terms, killing an immortal would be like adding zeros until you have 1. Even if there is an infinite number of them i.e. infinite force, you'll be no closer than when you started. A cure to the uncurable, Death to the immortal, The omnipotent lifting the unliftable object, it's all the same. It's all a waste of time.

>>5894707
>There is no cure to immortality.
Tell that to Chiron.

>>5894781
he wasn't really immortal. Don't even get me started on the dictionary game.

This officially makes the lot of you worse than Type-Moon faggots you know that right?

>>5894790
Was too.

>>5894798

>immortal- not mortal; not liable or subject to death [dictionary]

he died, therefore he is liable and subject to death. Therefore, he was, in fact, not immortal.

>>5894747
>Yukari's power is not infinite.
Derp, hence the reason why I said, "the time, concentration, energy, and resources Yukari needs to be successful with her powers is speculation."

>It's strictly JUST boundaries she can manipulate.
That's what I said and I agree with you. Got any more strawmens? Everything has a boundary, so you can see why some have come to the conclusion that it's a power on par with the Gods. ZUN's words, not mine.
>As you know, ***everything*** is built upon the existence of boundaries. If there were no boundaries, everything would probably exist as a single enormous object.
"everything"
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Yukari_Yakumo

To your defense, however, some Yukari fans interpret this as if she can manipulate every boundary instantly. Which ZUN has clearly shown it takes time to manipulate boundaries.

>>5894809
No, he was made un-immortal, making him subject to death.

Immortal doesn't necessarily include "not subject to being made subject to death".

>>5894819

yes it is. He was still liable and subject to death to begin with because that very thing could be done for him to die.
Complicated death=/=immortal

>>5894840
I'm not talking to you anymore.

in SSiB Yukari mentions that even she does not possess the power to send another living being to the moon.

Her power to manipulate boundaries is limited by her finite amount of energy. That amount is unknown, as is the cost to perform boundary manipulations. If SSiB is any indication, the energy cost grows exponentially in relation to distance and mass of the objects being 'gapped'.

Be honest Eirin fans, if you could choose to have Yukari or Eirin's powers which one would you choose?

[ ] Manipulation of Boundaries, a supercomputer brain
[ ] Ability to create medicines, millenniums-worth of knowledge and wisdom

No elixir of immortality either, since Kaguya doesn't exist in this scenario.

>>5894843

I'm just being honest. All immortals will live forever. If they somehow died somewhere in a plot, it's then revealed that they weren't really immortal, or their 'immortality' was a lie. Mokou here is truly immortal, it's in her profile that she lived forever, so there's no dispute. Same goes with Kaguya.
"removing" immortality is simply impossible because the character is supposed to have absolutely no connection to death. Or rather, it's not a part of their existence, so no matter how much you manipulate them, they simply can't die. That's what immortality REALLY is. In the Touhou plot, Mokou made that pretty clear several times.

You guys have such terrible taste. Eirin is not even an original character. We've seen characters with her archetype in various comic books. Yukari is probably the only original character ZUN has ever created. We've seen Suika, Kaguya, and Sakuya's powers before, but we've never seen a character in fiction with the power to manipulate boundaries. You should be proud of ZUN for creating such a character.

Ability to create medicine? Are you kidding me?

>>5894965
I'd still pick Yukari's powers. This world gets boring sometimes.

Question: "Who would win in a fight, Yukari Yakumo or Eirin Yagokoro?"

Sids: "Eirin Yagokoro yeah"

>>5895027
what about Suika, Cirno, Mokou, Aya, Reisen, and the rest of the cast excluding Kaguya and Eirin? Don't those count?

>>5895042
Son, I am disappoint.

>>5894796
it's been that way for a while

there are only 3 different stories and about 9 different characters and they keep getting told again and again through out time.

>>5895055
>Suika, Manipulation of density
Greed (Full Metal Alchemist)
Gaara (Naruto)
At least 3 youkai from YuYu Hakusho
At least 9 youkai from Inuyasha

>Cirno, Manipulation of cold
Yukina (YuYu Hakusho)
Another youkai from the second season of YuYu Hakusho

>Mokou, Immortality, Resistance to and Manipulation of Fire
Too much to count.

>Aya, Manipulation of Wind
Too much to count

>>5894992
I'm pretty sure an overdeity could take away the particular brand of immortality that the Hourai Elixir grants.

It'd just be an incredible dick move.

>>5895279
it's impossible to "remove" that kind of immortality. It's not a grant/ability, it's more of a plane. If death doesn't exist in her, there's nothing to remove.

>>5895314
Can always move her to a different plane or add something new to the existing one.

>>5895314
So we just add death?

>>5894992
There's more than one type of immortality. You don't have to be immortal forever to be immortal. Many characters are called immortals despite not being invincible, as well.

>>5895444
...and if you can't do that while that said character is alive?

>>5895493
...and if you can?

>>5895516
if you can, then they die and they're not really immortal to begin with because death is possible.

Why is this even a discussion? Immortal people can't die. Liable to death via manipulation prior to death ultimately makes said person still mortal because of that very thing capable of killing them.

All right guys, stat out the Touhous in question in some Pen and Paper RPG system (D&D, Shadowrun, Risus I don't care) and duel them already so we don't have to play Cowboys & Indians any further. Dueling always solves everything.

>>5893427
>HURR FANTASIZING ABOUT A 9 YEAR OLD WHO SAYS SHE'S 500 YEARS OLD IS ALRIGHT, I MEAN SHE'S 500 RIGHT? DERP DERP.

Post is so fucking stupid it took me several hours to respond. Power levels are the only thing that keeps Touhou from being "Japanese franchise with little girls #5757564645866868"

>>5895528
I think requiring god to personally intervene and end you as the only means of death leaves you functionally immortal

>>5895560
lol are you really that much of a powerlevels manchild or is this just amateur trolling hour

>>5895533
D-D-D-uel!

>>5895247
>Greed (Full Metal Alchemist)
No, he doesn't "manipulate" density, he turns his body into an allotrope of carbon.

>>Gaara (Naruto)
Bullshit, his hard sand is pressure and mineral base.

Plus I challenge you to find a character who can manipulate density in every sense of the word. Population density, physical density, "mood" density.

wait how far in the fucking future is "modern times" compared to gensokyo?

>>5895577
cry more pedophile.

>>5895247
Garaa and Greed don't manipulate density.

You handpicked elemental powers that are common in fiction and ignored the other 90% of powers and their application. Heh, when you have to lie and leave things out to prove your point then you should know that you've got none to begin with.

>>5895563
>god
>end

Not immortal. Just very powerful.
Don't think of immortality as an ability that can be taken away or subdued. Instead, think of it as a state or a position in which the being is in that makes them incapable of dying. Even if blown up to oblivion, they still won't die. Their "end/death" no longer exists, no matter what you do.

>>5895672
All you need to do is find a way to transcend reality and get at that tasty soul, which is pretty easy, all things considered. Or rewrite history. That would work too.

>>5895587
>>5895615
Greed's powers are similar to Suika's nonetheless.

>Bullshit, his hard sand is pressure and mineral base.
Pressure is density you dunce. But if you want some better examples of people with the ability to manipulate density. In Argento Soma, there was an alien that had the ability to withstand any attack by changing its density. It's a cliche power, but ZUN just managed to use it in ways that made it seem original.

>>5895785
I'm sure there was at least one Angel in Evangelion with a similar ability. Not to mention the various youkai in Inuyasha and YuYu Hakusho that had the ability to manipulate density.

Why is a thread that could be dedicated to heavenly incest and peach eating moe instead a Bleach/Naruto thread? ;_;

I just reported everyone in his thread. Take your power level bullshit back to /a/ with the rest of the retards.

>>5895739
and what if changing history would backfire? remember, it's not the elixir itself that keeps the bearer immortal. It's the taste itself. Suppose Keine rewrites history, but it backfires because Mokou already became immortal, and instead of living forever from the point of consuming the Hourai Elixir to forever more, she lives forever into the past as well? She can't die. That much is firm. The elixir messed with reality enough to make it impossible. Suppose time no longer applies to Mokou anymore? Remember what Kaguya said?

>As eternity refers to a world with no history, it is also a world where change is eternally unknown.

Then there's the problem that even if Keine did change history, and it somehow miraculously worked, Mokou would have died a long time ago and Keine wouldn't know of Mokou's existence. Therefore it'd be impossible for Keine to change the past and it's an automatic-resurrection by default.
Keine hides histories and makes illusions of worlds with changed histories. This is noted when Yukari could see through those illusions in Imperishable Night.
No matter how you look at it, it points to "it's impossible".

In the end, if it's capable of dying AT ALL, no matter how difficult or complex, it's still mortal, whether twisted or not, still mortal.
Immortality's appeal to it is that it's incapable of dying no matter what you do to it or how you look at it.
Mokou has that said appeal. Don't try to fight it. Like a Phoenix, it only comes back stronger.

>>5895797
I don't think any of the Angels were specifically implied to control density or, if it was suggested, they never demonstrated the ability to change any density but that of their own body.

Even the Angel of Death doesn't count.

>>5895815
You're not only a secondary fan but a [>>5893674] hypocrite. It's only an, "lol, powerlevel thread" when your side is losing the debate, eh?

Just the fact that you like IN's cast speaks volumes about your taste. Let me guess, you like IN so much because it's the only game you can 1cc on easy? Or maybe you like it because of its gay undertones. You yuri fans are an eyesore.

This thread is proof that touhou fans, type-moon fans, umineko fans and naruto fans are one and the same.

>>5895874
Powerlevel threads are older than /jp/ itself. And each powerlevel thread garners 200+ replies. I have a folder of 20 powerlevels threads dating back to 2008, all with 200+ replies. It seems as if the only person from /a/ here is you. Next time learn to use the archive before making a fool out of yourself.

>remember, it's not the elixir itself that keeps the bearer immortal. It's the taste itself.

Rollback Guy rolls back the number of tastes Mokou had, rendering her mortal and squishy. Game, Set, and Match.

Either way, it's only impossible because you THINK it's impossible. Either believe in yourself more, or believe in someone else who in turn will believe in you.

>>5895935
>Powerlevel threads are older than /jp/ itself.
>I have a folder of 20 powerlevels threads dating back to 2008, all with 200+ replies.

Thank you for admitting to all the world that shitty powerlevel threads have their origins in /a/ and the kind of retarded users who browse it. Now get back there.

Reported.

>>5895940

too late, she already tasted it. She's never allowed to die anymore.

I think you just WANT it to be possible. ZUN, Eirin, Yukari, hell the entire IN team made it obvious. I'm only following the canon here, it's not like I'm making it up.

Pooshlmer level faggotry

>>5895970
>>5895957
>>5895940
>>5895885
>>5895739
>>5895672
>>5895563
>>5895528
>>5895516
>>5895493
>>5895444
>>5895314
>>5895279
>>5894992
>>5894843
>>5894840
>>5894819
>>5894809
>>5894798
>>5894790
>>5894781
>>5894707
>>5894660
>>5894581
>>5894536
>>5894193
Word of God said she can never die now SHUT THE FUCK UP!

>>5895957
>Thank you for admitting to all the world that shitty powerlevel threads have their origins in /a/ and the kind of retarded users who browse it. Now get back there.
You just went Full retard. Touhou itself predated /jp/. 90% of /jp/'s userbase came here from /a/ after the split. We brought our Touhou discussions along with us. Way to tell us you got here after the name change. I hope you're just trolling.

>>5896007
>Word of God said she can never die now SHUT THE FUCK UP!
ZUN has contradicted himself in a number of occasions. Want me to post several of his contradictions?

>>5895901
Huh? You need to stop getting so personal about this and actually read what's written. "Battle"? Where'd you get that idea? And I don't recall saying anything about a preference for IN in this thread. And honestly, Eirin is probably my least favorite character of the IN cast. And that's completely irrelevant to discussion of canon power levels. All I did was cite exactly what ZUN wrote, not my opinions. Also, gameplay really has nothing to do with what ZUN declares canon. I'm probably one of the few people on /jp/ that actually plays the games and actually read ZUN's comments in the games. If anything, it seems you are just trying to ignore what ZUN actually writes. ZUN doesn't usually care about powerlevels, but he specifically wrote Eirin >>> Kaguya as one of the only ones set in stone. Who's ignoring canon here?

And I didn't say "lol, powerlevel" thread. There's a difference between that and discussion of shonen anime. Not that I really mind it, but I'm surprised it's being tolerated on /jp/

Obviously, Mokou and Kaguya are the most powerful by default of never being permanently dead and able to outlast anyone.

>>5896066
And ZUN's canon declaration, if the fighting game interview is to be believed. At the very least, it implies that Yukari cannot do anything about their immortality.

>>5895970
Sorry, but Rollback Guy's powers are just that great. He's easily capable of rolling back time itself to when Mokou was born, nevermind rolling back her age until she doesn't even exist anymore.

I just think YOU don't want it to be possible, because you're a Negative Nancy.

>>5896012
>90% of /jp/'s userbase came here from /a/ after the split.
>We brought our Touhou discussions along with us.

Take note, everyone - this is what normalfags actually believe.

Protip: All of the worst touhou fans are the people who allegedly "migrated here from /a/." Those kids who thought Marisa stole the Precious thing was funny? /a/spies. Those kids who made up those shitty CYOAs that made the board intolerable? /a/spies. Those kids who decided that roleplaying as stuttering Alice was "s-so kawaii....?" /a/spies. Those kids who had Cirno as their favorite touhou? /a/spies/. And of course, all those kids who had all of the gayass "ultimate showdown" Yukari vs. Yuka vs. ORT vs. Cthulu threads? /a/spies.

All of the very worst parts of the touhou fanbase were inherited from those faggots who were exiled from /a/ because no one could stand their bullshit. Most of them later left to form terrible fucking communities like Pooshlmer, Shrinemaiden and Touhouproject, but from the looks of this thread, some of them are still around.

Or it's summer.

>>5896029

I think they're just fables and ironies. I love how he puts them in.
For example, Eirin a nurse figure, ends up being the sole mass murderer in Gensokyo when she killed the moon's emmisionaries to escape with Kaguya. A traitorous murderer at that. I wouldn't call any of his statements contradictions. They're just fables and ironies.

From what i've read, I've always interpreted the "tough to die" hierarchy in this way:
- Immortals (artificial; e.g., Mokou)
- Immortals (authentic; e.g., Sikieiki; also, those who have achieved nirvana)
- Celestials (if they can be killed by a Shinigami, they die for real; otherwise, they okay)
- Gods
- Fairies
THINGS BELOW THIS LINE CAN DIE NORMALLY
- Lunarians (long-lived)
- Youkai (their embodiment can die)
- Humans (weaksauce mostly)
Souls and ghosts are already dead so they can't die twice (but they probably can be judged twice)

>241 posts and 44 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.

>past few dozen replies

>>5896069
>And ZUN's canon declaration, if the fighting game interview is to be believed.
8/10

>>5896090
aren't those who achieved nirvana called "celestials"?

>>5896105
No, just normal youkai.

>>5896105

yes. >[Celestials are essentially hermits who have long pursued ascetic knowledge, but they can be divided into those who have achieved immortality and ascended to heaven(*5), and those who have attained enlightenment and entered Nirvana. ]

>>5896098
What's the matter? It was ZUN's excuse for why they weren't in the game, so technically that makes it canon!

Again, this isn't my opinion or what I believe. It's just things ZUN said himself.

>>5896041
>Not that I really mind it, but I'm surprised it's being tolerated on /jp/
Once again, your inexperience is showing. This is not the first time a shonen anime has been referenced in a powerlevel thread. Want some threads to prove this?

One last line of advice. Powerlevel threads are always personal.

>>5896105
Being a celestial is simply a positive reincarnation above the human world. Think of it as the opposite of being reincarnated in hell; the person would just be enjoying positive karma until it is expended at which point they would sink down to a lower world.

>>5896127
It was a bad translation that implied untrue things, but my rage comes more from that anyone believed that part at all because it makes no fucking sense if you think about it for even a moment.

>>5896153

normalfag here.
It makes sence because I like Mokou and it's confirmed she was planned to be in UNL but wasn't there.
It'd make perfect sense. He said her moveset was too powerful but didn't have time to fix it, so whatever

>>5896076
People are still monkeying 4chan's *fags rhetoric? You were surprising accurate about most of what you said aside from the final part. The Anons that came here from old /a/ hated pooshlmer with a passion. Also, no matter what you say it'll never change the fact that most of us are from old /a/. Just the fact that you deny this statement makes me wonder if /jp/ was your first board on 4chan. Shall I quiz you on a few memes, tripfriends, stickies, and events from old /a/ to test your knowledge of 4chan?

And I'm genuinely curious, why the sudden hate for powerlevel threads? I've been in every powerlevel thread worth mentioning and I've never seen someone make the case that you're making right now. Not to mention the fact that most powerlevel threads receive 200+ replies. Want some threads to prove the aforementioned statements?

>>5896247
Because they tend to be 95% pure conjecture, 4% extrapolating on small amounts of known information, and 1% honest referencing of known canon - which tends to be useless in establishing relative strengths because they don't really verify anything conclusively.

These threads also invariably turn out to be childish slap fights sooner or later.

i thought this thread was going to die after i made the first reply

<-- better celestials

i thought this thread was going to die after i made the first reply

<-- better celestials

>>5896076
>this is what normalfags actually believe.
Your awkward use of the word "normalfag" speaks volumes about your post. Do you even take the time to research /b/'s terminology before monkeying it? "Normalfags" by definition have a life outside of the Internet. If they've been on 4chan for 2 to 3 years predating /jp/'s existence, they must not have a life--thus cannot be considered "normalfags."

The old Touhou fans of /a/ are the ones who created the western Touhou fanbase. Gensokyo.org and pooshlmer followed in its footsteps. The Anons from old /a/ understand Touhou the most and are veterans of its culture and history. I was probably discussing Touhou long before you were aware of its existence. Dig in your folder and find the oldest Touhou thread you can find. This should give me a good laugh or two. You see this picture. See if you can spot /jp/ for me.

>>5896177
Ok but what most people apparently believed from reading that is that Kaguya and Mokou were too powerful to implement easily. Like something inherent in them prevented Tasfro from making two characters from scratch that weren't gamebreakingly powerful. Because, I guess, they're immortal? Which means that a little girl can't slap them until their red bar runs out, or something.

>>5896382
An eternal hell for Kaguya and Mokou would be to some how catapult them into a star. The density and gravity of a star would keep them trapped and the intense heat would keep killing them instantly. Suika literally has enough strength to toss them, but even if she didn't, her powers over density would guarantee their arrival at any star of her choosing. Yukari wouldn't even need to warp them that far into space because the Earth is already traveling 3 times the speed of a bullet. All she would have to do is pick the correct trajectory towards the Sun, and gap them in the location the Earth was just in a few minutes ago.

>>5896481


I am giving Operation: Hurl Touhous Into The Sun the go-head, Colonel. Don't screw this up.

Being a human in Gensokyo must suck. Surrounded by so much fucking HAXX. I'd just sit inside all day.

Last argument for the night. Eirin is not as strong as the Watatsuki sisters. There's a reason why she had to flee from the moon with Kaguya. And there's a reason why she went out of her way with the bloated events that took place in IN. (Which ended up putting Kaguya in more danger.)

The big boss doesn't have to run or hide from his or her underlings. That's the equivalent of Remilia fleeing from Scarlet Devil Mansion in order to protect Flandre. Remilia would never have to do such a thing because no two beings combined in SDM are on par with her or her sister.

Yorihime and Eirin fought against Reimu in a fair duel, yet Yorihime won with only a microscopic fraction of her full potential. Eirin lost with back up from Reisen, Tewi, and Kaguya. The Watatsuki sisters' reputation was such that Yukari had to cook up a giant 3 stage plan. Eirin was just the "brains of the moon" to Yukari in SSiB and IN.

>>5896622
You're trolling, right?

>>5896672
>I have no retort so I'll just accuse him of trolling. That always works!

>>5896683
I do have a retort. I've just used it so much that I'm annoyed when I see that stupid argument every single time.

Read Eirin's profile.

>>5896708
Both Yorihime and Eirin were holding back, but one lost and one didn't. Your point? Shall we compare the two encounters?

[Eirin]
-Back up energy from Kaguya.
-Reisen, Tewi, and Kaguya on her side.

[Yorihime]
-Alone vs Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, and Remilia.
-Only using 5 out of a million+ summons.

See, this is why I like Marisa.
She has no inherent power. She's the only character who canonically gets her power by training intensely and harvesting magic mushrooms. Despite being a "thief," it seems to me that she finds what works and makes use of it. She doesn't control some basic element of existence, nor does she have a hax ability or connections with deities for literal deus ex machina saves.
But this is Japan we're talking about, so how hard one works is far less significant than what one gets from birth and who one is associated with.

>>5896958

Thats a very cool analysis, I've never looked at Marisa that way before.

I've always liked Yuuka as sort of the first "real powerful" character in the series (or so I've heard).

>>5896958
Oh well, at least she gets the most fanwank out of most of the characters, except for maybe Reimu.

>>5897026
Yeah, but I wish ZUN would acknowledge her a little more. She's greatly downplayed in the comics, and a bunch of her endings involve offering to "introduce you to a certain miko..." Her shot types since EoSD have been very meh, too.
That's what's always annoyed me. Reimu's character profile says she has great power, but isn't interested in training or is too lazy to improve herself. Despite that, ZUN doesn't shy away from showing her to be far beyond Marisa in power, who actually works hard at it and says, "Danmaku is all about power." She's more powerful than Marisa... just 'cause.

>>5893264
>>5893783
>>5893792
Hmm my damn HDD chaos, if it weren't for that I would post the char tier list.
Highest tier are apparently Yukari, Yorihime, Flandere, Alice, Reimu and Eirin and Kaguya are one tier below them.

>>5897069

Because ZUN is a racist and doesn't want the foreign outsider gaijin witch to be stronger than the pure Nipponese Miko.

>>5897069
Well, that's okay, isn't it.
You still like her for what she tries to be, even if she'll never get there.
Life is unfair, but she won't stop doing her best. Not now, not ever.

up

Hey, I thought I'd pass by this thread and post the real winner of SSiB.

You still try to figure out powerlevels from danmaku battles?

Yorihime & Toyohime equipped with lunar technology > Eirin > Toyohime > Yorihime > Kaguya > Suika > Yugi > Yukari

For characters like Yukari, Suika, Yuyuko, Kaguya, Flandre, Yuka no real battle is possible.
Its like a shitty MMORPG where everyone is equipped with the best myshop items. Whoever gets the first hit wins.

Thats why they came up with spellcard battles.

Fighting moonbitches is like fighting a bunch of immigrants.

They themselves are not that strong but when you pick a fight with them a whole lot of strong guys appear out of nowhere.

>ZUN has contradicted himself in a number of occasions. Want me to post several of his contradictions?

Yes, please. 3 would suffice.

>>5897916
Yuyuko's power was too vulgar for a Christian manga. ZUN had no intention of displaying her power. From PMiSS:
>The ability to manipulate death literally means the ability to kill someone with no resistance.
>Of course, once they're dead, she would be able to control their spirit, as well.
>Nothing good can come out of challenging her.
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Yuyuko_Saigyouji
Not only could she kill someone instantly but she would also be able to turn them into her invulnerable, phantom slave. Though I'm sure the Mary Sue sisters have at least one summon that gives them auto-life against one-hit-kill attacks from glutton spirits named Yuyuko. ZUN is such a bad writer it wouldn't surprise me. Oh look, I have a summon for every single attack you throw at me. How convenient.

>>5898243
Or it's like a shitty multiplayer RPG where most characters can hold a thousand HP and MP potions, and a cure-all-HP spell only cost that user a few MP points. Pic related. Determining the victor would take hours.

>>5898203
>Yorihime & Toyohime equipped with lunar technology > Eirin > Toyohime > Yorihime > Kaguya > Suika > Yugi > Yukari
How is Toyohime stronger than Yorihime, the competent sister with a thousand summons? Also, Kaguya is NOT in the same league with Yukari. According to ZUN, Mokou has succeeded at killing Kaguya a few times, yet when Mokou was confronted by Yukari in IN she said, "scary?" She also said, "how are you so strong."

But I agree with you that Yorihime & Toyohime equipped with lunar technology are an unstoppable pair. That fan Toyohime was carrying was the deadliest weapon in the Touhouverse. I still find it a bit odd that she had to rely on such a weapon. I guess unlike her sister Yorihime, she doesn't have an endless supply of summons. Only little girls rely on technology and summons in a fair duel.

>>5898757
>Only little girls rely on technology and summons in a fair duel.
It's the equivalent of bombing on easy mode.

>>5898757
Kaguya obviously holds back against Mokou.

How the hell should a fire user like Mokou stand a chance against the robe of fire rat?

>>5893264
>and abilities that are far out of reach of the youkai

All lunarians so far with the sole exception of Kaguya have really shitty powers.

I don't know where is Yukari taking this shit from.

>>5898757
>yet when Mokou was confronted by Yukari
When will you fags finally realize the shit you're posting.

>>5898840
Yukari was most like referring to the Watatsuki sisters. (Who wield great technology and power.) Everyone else on the moon so far has been a joke.

I guess technology is still more stronger than magic. And in the Touhouverse, the Lunarian's technology is second to none.

>>5898840
>can manipulate the boundaries between the Earth and Moon, and between the scientific and fantastic versions of the Moon
You don`t know what else she can do. She can probably throw youkai out to the normal world where they simply cant exist anymore.
>Good fortune
She will luck out all the time

>Easily absorbs knowledge
Can learn every spell effortlessly. She had 1500 years to collect hax spells using that power.

>Can create all types of medicine, genius-level intelligence.
Will have the right potion to counter your hax ability.

>>5898836
Kaguya is apparently not that strong. Just from the way Mokou described Yukari, it was as if she saw a powerlevel she never thought was possible. Read it for yourself: http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Imperishable_Night:_Boundary_Team%27s_Extra

>Mokou: You're too strong. What's the point of a trial of guts for people like you?
>Yukari: Well, there are still some things that are kinda scary.
>Reimu: Like jelly donuts?
>Yukari: Yeah, their shape is like a giant insect egg... And the jelly inside, it reminds me of...
>Mokou: My god, jelly donuts are so scary. [Mokou thinks that, 'Yukari is frightening to Mokou', 'Manjyuu are frightening to Yukari' 'Manjyuu will be very frightening to Mokou' (simple chain reaction, huh?)]

>>5898878
This has already been posted in the thread. Read it.
Mokou didn't describe Yukari at all.

>>5898878
Again: a fire user can`t do shit against the robe of fire rat. So it is safe to say Kaguya is holding back her best shit.
Also she was banned from Hisoutensoku for being overpowered.
She attacked the motherfucking Yukari AND Reimu without fear.
Her ability is hax comparable to Yukari, Flandre, Suika.

She is only weak in fanwork.

>>5898926

She's really really stupid, though. Ditzy, cowardly, AND lazy.

>>5898865
>You don`t know what else she can do. She can probably throw youkai out to the normal world where they simply cant exist anymore.
I agree, but apparently she wasn't confident with her inherent powers when confronting Yukari. Why bring along the Lunarian's "most advanced weaponry?" Her sister Yorihime doesn't seem to need to rely on stuff. Well, aside from her summons.

>She will luck out all the time
She only has the ability to grant good fortune to humans. Read PMiSS and her profile.

>Can learn every spell effortlessly. She had 1500 years to collect hax spells using that power.
That's not really a power so much as it is a trait of her personality. Ran can solve complex equations in milliseconds, but is that listed as one of her powers? Even with Ran's supercomputer brain she can't solve Yukari's equations. Now tell me, if you had such a brain would you not be able to master a lot of spells? Oh, and let me remind you that knowledge != wisdom.

>Will have the right potion to counter your hax ability.
Again that's not really something I would call a technique or ability that was unique to her. Eirin at the end of the day is just an Earthling that has lived long enough to gather a lot of knowledge. She also needs resources to create things.

To be honest with you, the only impressive powers I've seen from the moon is Kaguya, Reisen, and Toyohime's powers. Suika, Yukari, Flandre, and Yuyuko's powers are much better. Why do you have such bad taste?

>>5898938
>cowardly
>She attacked the motherfucking Yukari AND Reimu without fear.

She is not stupid at all.

>>5898865
>She can probably throw youkai out to the normal world where they simply cant exist anymore.

They regularly hunt in the real world.

>>5898926
So basically what you're saying is that Kaguya is a closet masochist that allowed a flame user to kill her a few times in order to please her masochistic desires?

>Will have the right potion to counter your hax ability.
>Again that's not really something I would call a technique or ability that was unique to her.
Well, her ability is the ability to create any medicine and if the Hourai Elixir can be considered "medicine" ...
Besides, you don't realize how this kind of thing plays out. Eirin is an even worst antagonist than Yukari in derivative fan fiction because of this ability in concert with her natural genius (and a bit of Adam West Batman crazy preparedness - yes, I'm talking about the shark repellent).

>>5898942
>Why bring along the Lunarian's "most advanced weaponry?
Because she could win this fight without even trying? I would do the same if I was her.

According to CiLR in the past Yukari went to the moon alone. She easily found the moon capital and penetrated it's barriers, but then concluded it's too well protected to go inside alone so she fled. Then she easily lost all the pursuers, but she fell into a trap left by Eirin and was unable to return to the Earth so she surrendered.

>>5898969
Exactly.

Both of them obviously are into it.

>>5898977

Translation: Eirin > Yukari > rest of lunarians

>>5898977
So the Youkai of Boundaries had no problem in finding A FUCKING CITY protected by a boundary?

How surprising.

How do Eirin fanboys explain the strange procedures Eirin had to take in IN, in order to protect her precious NEET? I thought no one on the moon was a threat to her. I guess Eirin's Amazing power to create medicine wasn't good enough to hold back her fellow Lunarians, eh?

Eirin along with Yukari are the masterminds behind the events in the Touhouverse, but Eirin is more of a scientist than anything. Don't confuse role in history with brute power.

>>5899063
Explained in the story.

They don`t want to kill them anymore so they went into hiding.

>This whole thread

>>5899091
More like if they kept killing them they would send in more people.

>>5898757
I don't know where all this shit comes from, but even somebody with grade school intelligence could have told ad the end of SSiB that Yukari was holding back on every end and was scheming this entire plot through.
Fan that destroys matter to the atomic level against a reallity lol, we can do that with weapons in our world aswell, still stands shit against reallity bending.
Just changing the concept of vectors in the opposite dierection would have made Toyohime kill herself.
It is even implied that the first war against the moon was plotted by Yukari, even to the event of losing the war.

>>5899063
>Eirin had to take in IN, in order to protect her precious NEET?
In IN, Eirin protected Udonge, not the princess.

>It is even implied that the first war against the moon was plotted by Yukari, even to the event of losing the war.
1 is not only implied, but 2 is just an opinion.

>>5898926
>a fire user can`t do shit against the robe of fire rat. So it is safe to say Kaguya is holding back her best shit.

Mokou's offenses being consisted entirely of fire is also fanwork. In the game only a quarter of her spells actually had fire in them. Most of them were vaporizing talismans and danmaku.

>Will have the right potion to counter your hax ability.

If Eirin is indeed "Infinite Minded" like she's pointed out to be, she would have taken precautions and purposefully made that elixir impossible to negate or counter, and "perfect". For all we know, it may have not even taken infinite knowledge either, and was just a simple but powerful formula. One thing is for sure though, she was confident in CiaLR that once anyone tastes it, they can never be returned to their former state.

>>5899186

In CiLR she said youkai can't beat lunarians. In a private talk with Ran.

She han no reason to lie to her loyal shikigami.

>>5899186

In CiLR she said youkai can't beat lunarians. In a private talk with Ran.

She had no reason to lie to her loyal shikigami.

>>5900103
>>5900110
Typical IN fan double posting. Yukari simply meant Lunarians as a whole have more power than youkai because they have better technology/weaponry. In the Touhouverse, science is on par with magic. Her calculations are most likely wrong because she's using old statistics. Even the Lunarians themselves admit in CiLR that their measurement of the humans threat levels need to be recalculated.

>>5900103
>>5900219
I wish I had that damn Touhou tier list.
Damn picture chaos.