/jp/ - Otaku Culture

-Secondary fan

Right, Chen could easily beat Yukari if Yukari wanted.

>>5878219
>Primary=No fun allowed and not allowed to enjoy the fandom(other than countless h-doujins)

No thank you then

>>5878224
>>5878204
Chen is just that awesome

What's that thing's name again? I know it's a tanuki, but I forget what the fandom named it.

QUALITY THREAD.

>>5878253
QUALITY POST.

>>5878256
Roku. check the filename bro

>>5878256
Yukari.

>>5878258
Reported.

I do think Chen would have a chance if she and Ran ganged up on Yukari.

>>5878204
She's too squirrely. I don't trust her.

>>5878274
Not only does Ran (and by extension Chen) draw power from Yukari, but this is only done under the pretense of shikigami possession. This pretty much rules out the possibility of being able to best her in combat.

The only people who can match Yukari are Kaguy,Yuyuko,Moko and Eiki.

>>5878334
And me.

I'd kick Yukari's ass.

Yukari isn't even particularly powerful, it's more that she is wise and good at solving complex problems.

>Ran is supposed to be a 9-tailed fox (called a "Kyuubi") which, according to ancient Japanese folklore, would be at least 800 years old. Foxes start life with 1 tail and gain an extra tail once every hundred years. So at 100 years old they would have 2, and at 800 would have 9. At this point, assuming Ran follows traditional folklore, she will eventually start losing tails until she has 4 and will be considered a "Tenko" (heaven) type of fox and will then be one step away from divinity.
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Ran_Yakumo

Tenko Ran is stronger than Yukari. Discuss.

>>5878400
Being one step away from divinity doesn't mean she will be specifically powerful.

Also, let's not turn this into a power level thread please.

>>5878400
By the time she becomes a Tenko, Yukari will also have gained power, so probably not.
Besides, it's pretty pointless to discuss powerlevels between Yukari and Ran, as the latter is well-disciplined and thus loyal.

>>5878425
>well-disciplined
Do you mean the animal abuse?

>>5878334
>The only people who can match Yukari are Kaguy,Yuyuko,Moko and Eiki.
Correction, the only people that can match Yukari is Shiki, Eirin, Suika, and the Watatsuki sisters. In the case of the Watatsuki sisters, they would have to rely on their summons and moontech to fight Yukarin.

>Kaguya
People assume Kaguya would be able to defeat Yukari because Kaguya's powers are boundless. In ZUN's words: "In any case, there is not a single defense against or weak point in the ability to manipulate boundaries."

>Mokou
Despite being able to kill Kaguya on a number of occasions, Mokou turned into a little girl after her battle with Reimu. Which suggest, she's never fought someone as powerful as her before. Read it for yourself: http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Imperishable_Night:_Boundary_Team%27s_Extra

>Yuyuko
This is debatable. Yuyuko, is definitely considered a powerful youkai. In Yukari's PMiSS article, it says: "Most of her friends are first-class youkai like Yuyuko Saigyouji of the netherworld and the oni Suika Ibuki."
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Yukari_Yakumo

>Eiki
Who?

>>5878400

Problem is that Zun probably didn't know about the losing tails part.

http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Ran_Yakumo

>It's said that the more tails a fox youkai has, the more powerful it is, and the longer they are, the more clever it becomes. The widely regarded authority among fox youkai is this nine-tailed fox, Ran Yakumo. A fox with nine large tails, her shining pedigree gives rise to divinity.

Ran was designed around the same time as Yami to Boushi to Hon no Tobito's Tamanonamae which held power over a multiverse of realities.

Ran is an EX level boss even when she's directly defying Yukari's orders, which according to Yukari is supposed to weaken Ran to the point where their powers shouldn't even be comparable... yet they're still awfully close when you look at their spellcards.

>>5878524
ShikiEiki

>>5878524
Yuyuko can simply invoke death on Yukari. She don't even have time to think about it she would simply die and be under Yuyuko control as her servant.

Eiki = Shikieiki

Yukari commented that herself, Yuyuko, and Reimu together would be no match for Shikieiki.

>>5878524
Yuugi could as well. Depending on your interpretation of 'supernatural phenomenon', it could either be a close fight or a complete curbstomp.

>>5878550

Yuyuko can only kill mortals.

>>5878573
And since when Yukari is immortal?

>>5878564
If you consider magic to be a supernatural phenomenon, Yuugi becomes as broken as GER.

If she's a tanuki, and tanuki are known as symbols of fertility and have huge balls, does that mean Roku is a dickgirl?

>>5878550

Yukari would manipulate the border of life and death and prevent herself from dying.

No matter how you look at it, Reimu and Yukari all have ridiculous powers that, if not under the spellcard rule, would end up being an effort in futility to find counters. Reimu and Yukari in particular would end up in a stalemate...Reimu floats above reality, Yukari manipulates the Border of Reality so that Reimu is vulnerable...then she floats above THAT reality. It keeps going in a circle until they get bored.

Shikieiki is a judge, and her word is law. This is why she's so damn powerful...but only in those matters. She can't really do anything outside of that, and as long as people stay...well, alive and out of her jurisdiction, fighting her is completely needless.

The power levels of the Touhouverse are as follows:
Shiki > Suika = Yukari = Eirin = Watatsuki sisters

The above list can be confirmed from a number of different articles. While it is true that youkai like Yuyuko are considered strong, there's no evidence suggesting she's stronger than any of the people mentioned above. For example, Yukari and Suika have been called the strongest youkai (in the sub-category of youkai) in more than one occasion. I've yet to read something that suggested Yuyuko was the strongest. If you need citation for any of this just quote me.

>>5878600
>Yukari would manipulate the border of life and death and prevent herself from dying
Please read my post again.

>Shikieiki is a judge, and her word is law. This is why she's so damn powerful...but only in those matters. She can't really do anything outside of that, and as long as people stay...well, alive and out of her jurisdiction, fighting her is completely needless.

Shikieiki powers are absolute, she even expanded a whole dimension at her will, you can't simple assume "she can only judge" as her power.

Chen is shit tier

>>5878619

I was under the impression that she pretty much just sticks to her job and by that she really can't do anything to hurt anyone that's still alive other than lecture them to death about how they're fucking up their lives.

>>5878595
Please don't say such lewd things

If Shikieiki was my mom things would be different around here.

>>5878682
you would be a much better person and wouldn't be posting in here. That's for sure.

>>5878600
She can't manipulate shit if she's dead, bro.

>>5878612
Shiki? You mean Shiki Eiki or someone else? Because I never thought of her as all that powerful.. yeah, immortal in her own right etc, but I don't think she can blow apart the world etc.

Also Keine Kamishirasawa is incredibly powerful in Ex-form.. able to literally re-write history.. she could remove practically anyone from existence by erasing the ancestors, Terminator style.. Removing a founder of a nation or something = she could single-handedly destroy entire empires. Thing is, that Keine is just a nice girl and so she doesn't seem to do that much, and only rarely enters Ex-mode apparently.

>>5878612
>I've yet to read something that suggested Yuyuko was the strongest.
You also have never read something caliming she isn't. I call absence of proof in this, rather than proof of absence.

>>5878694

I'm pretty sure Yukari would be able to see an instant death attack coming pretty easily. Manipulation of the border of present and future, and she can make it so that it's impossible for Yuyuko to actually hit her with a 1 hit kill...since she'd know when it would hit and prepare by manipulating life and death.

No weaknesses, remember? Not even instant death is a weakness.

tl;dr Enma > anything mortal including youkai.

>>5878711
Yukari powers can be really awesome or really lame at the same time. I'll get a nice pasta for you here:


Still, this isn't that abstract, since it's still dealing with real things in the real world. Many believe that in this world, there are those things that are true, and those that obviously aren't. This divides reality into two extremes: truth and falsehood. But, since we have two extremes, logically one can imagine a boundary between those two extremes - the border between truth and lies. If one were to manipulate this border, suddenly things that were pure fantasy (flying pigs, for the sake of argument) have become reality - or things from reality have ceased to exist. This is how Yukari is said to have invaded the moon - by manipulating the border between truth and lies, as applied to the reflection of the moon on a pond, she was able to make the reflection of the moon into a manifestation of the actual moon, and so send her youkai army onto it. This is what's truly amazing about Yukari's power - the ability to manipulate the border between completely abstract concepts allows her to fundamentally change reality as we know it (at least in terms of two abstract concepts).

Why is Yukari considered powerful?
>Naturally, the one who has enslaved this strongest of the youkai beasts and uses her for various mundane tasks is the strongest youkai, Yukari Yakumo.
>Truly, they're an unbeatable pair.
>"By following my will, shikigami can achieve power equal to my level. Therefore, if she properly follows my orders, it would be impossible for her to lose. If she takes selfish actions, her power will be weakened to something that can't even be compared to mine. Fighting in that state is nothing other than foolish."
>The ability to manipulate boundaries is a terrifying ability capable of fundamentally undermining reality. If there were no boundaries, everything would probably exist as a single enormous object.
>Thus, the ability to manipulate boundaries is an ability of logical creation and destruction.
>Among the abilities youkai are known to possess, this is one of the most dangerous, being comparable even to the power of gods.

>>5878733
>It's said that this ability is not limited to physical space, but also applies to pictures, others' dreams, and even stories.
>Gensokyo is the place it is because of Yukari's ability to control borders. Her power is what separates Gensokyo from the outside world. There really aren't any youkai in Gensokyo who could go against her will.
>On 0 month 0 day, the mathematics magician calculated the width of the Sanzu River, surprising related parties. This river isn't fixed in width; rather, it is famous for extreme length changes according to various factors. Because of this, calculating the width of the river has been understood to be impossible. The mathematics magician who accomplished this feat is Ran Yakumo (Shikigami). She's usually strong with numbers, being able to answer complicated equations instantly, startling those around her.
>You think up a new formula, and you create a formula that will solve it. So your master...is better at numbers than you are? It goes without saying that there is no comparison. I could neither solve nor understand Miss Yukari's equations. How terrifying.... Miss Yukari would determine not only the Sanzu's width, but its bottomless depth as well. She'd find out how long it would take Ursa Major to devour the North Star, all in an instant.

>>5878717

She can remove the border of reality between everything and create the world as Hideaki Anno envisioned if she wanted to.

>>5878600
>Reimu and Yukari in particular would end up in a stalemate.
Not only them, most of the Touhou cast would end up in stalemate. Either that or those "first who strikes is the first who wins" match.
Sakuya can manipulate time.
Remilia can manipulate fate.
Flandre can destroy anything.
Yuyuko can kill anything alive.
Erin's medicine can do everything.
Sanae can make miracles (it's a miracle, my oponnent's abilities don't work anymore!).
Kanako and Suwako can probably perform miracles too, as they are goddesses.
So yeah, most of the staff is broken.

>Why is Yukari considered powerful?
Because she seems to be the leader of Gensokyo
many important decision is made by her
such as attacking the moon and building the Hakurei Border

>>5878711
>I'm pretty sure Yukari would be able to see an instant death attack coming pretty easily. Manipulation of the border of present and future, and she can make it so that it's impossible for Yuyuko to actually hit her with a 1 hit kill...
So you mean she would be living with paranoia her entire life? And she would never get tired, have to sleep or whatever?
You seem to forget that even if her powers ARE awesome, she is still as vulnerable as a normal youkai.

>>5878711
>No weaknesses, remember? Not even instant death is a weakness.

Not having weaknesses doesn't mean you are immune to everything. Weakness is just the result of something that you have disadvantage of. Advantage or Disadvantage are not decisive, they are just elements of a situation.

>>5878749
>Sanae can make miracles
Sanae's powers are the most broken of them all. Seriously, she can just cut her two arms off, tie her legs, use a blindfold and still defeat you, whoever you are, through a miracle, because "miracles" are so fucking broken they can be used to explain everything.

Does anyone have the comic of Yuyuko and anonymous eating Chen

>>5878749
>Remilia can manipulate fate.
I have recently stumbled upon evidence that Remilia is not that strong. In Sakuya's profile, ZUN (Akyu) speculates about Sakuya's origins. It says:
>According to one theory, she was a vampire hunter from the outside world or another world (*4), and followed the vampires into the Scarlet Devil Mansion to try to slay them, but was defeated instead.
>The reasoning behind this theory is that the silver knives she uses are for defeating vampires, and also because of the abilities the vampires possess.
>Then for searching her, she reached the Scarlet Devil Mansion, but the vampire there who looked so young was surprisingly strong, and she was easily defeated instead.
>The vampire, taking pity on her for her level of ability, spared her, and gave her a new name, which also gave her a completely opposite fate
Now pay attention to this last part:
>However, upon seeing the vampire who she could not defeat easily beaten by a human in Gensokyo, and that afterwards the vampire and human got along well as if nothing had ever happened, she slowly began to open herself towards those around her.
Reimu 'easily' defeated Remilia, something Sakuya failed to accomplish. This further obscures the line between play fights and serious fights. Just by reading it, it sounds as if EoSD was not just about tea sipping. Touhou fans have the misconception that they're just playing duels with no strings attached. Had Reimu not been strong enough to defeat Remilia, who knows what would have happened.

>>5878841
http://touhou.wikia.com
/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Sakuya_Izayoi

Forgot the link.

>>5878749

Neither Kanako nor Suwako can create miracles. They have defined powers and can be defeated. Suwako had the power of curse goddesses she had defeated and power over earth...which indirectly gave her power over metal, hence her ability to create and use steel weapons to great success (I still want to see Suwako holding a sword, but that won't happen). Kanako had power over wind and water, and possibly earth as well. She used a series of vines to completely destroy Suwako's steel weapons and she graciously admitted defeat.

As far as everything else, the powers can be countered rendering them useless and then redefined.

Sakuya: time/space manipulation. Counter: avoid effects of time/space.
Remilia: fate manipulation. Counter: avoid fate or need for fate.
Flan: Destroy anything. Counter: Be indestructible.
Yuyuko: Kill anything alive. Counter: Be dead or immortal.
Eirin: Creation of fantastic medicines. Counter: Don't take medicine.
Sanae: Miracles. Counter: Certainty.

While Sakuya seems to have the most overpowered one there, manipulation or avoidance of time and space is easy for Reimu and Yukari...in fact, all of these are easy for them. Hourai imbibers are also immune to a lot of these for possessing true immortality, as well as some of the gods. Shikieiki can still die.

Sakuya can counter fate manipulation by using time so that her fate is never reached.

Eirin is the easiest to counter, even if the medicine is gaseous. Just be in an impenetrable hazmat suit.

Sanae can create miracles. A miracle is just something that has a ridiculously low possibility of happening, not something that's impossible. It's impossible to have an opponent's powers stop working, but it's merely improbable to have them miss with every attack.

Honestly, the weakest characters in terms of actual abilities are the ones without manipulation of abstracts. Marisa and Alice, for example, can be defeated with little-no effort.

Reading about Yukari's powers sends chills down my spine...

>>5878841
Yeah that aspect of Touhou is extremely unclear and probably best left to the imagination. I don't think ZUN cares to decide. beetle diarrhoea

>>5878807

Nope. As much as I hate to admit it, Miracles can be countered quite easily with...well, Certainty. Too bad there's nobody in Gensokyo with that kind of power.

>>5878841
When Reimu isn't strong enough you get the bad endings.

>>5878841
>>5878847
Or Remilia simply liked Reimu and let that happen as "fate".

Or, all things in gensokyo are actually being decided by Remilia in the background always favoring Reimu.


So yeah, no use thinking about this kind of thing guys.

>>5878859
>Reading about Yukari's powers sends chills down my spine...
I just like it because it's original. I've seen Kaguya, Eirin, Yuuka, Suika, and Sakuya's powers before but I've never seen a character in fiction with Yukari's powers. ZUN is definitely a good writer.

Ran has 9 tails.
Chen has 2.
Nazrin has 1.
Shou....doesn't have any. How is this fair?!?!?!?

captcha: Remington Cthulhu

>>5878888

I had no idea that Kaguya had any powers besides being completely immortal. "Manipulation of eternity and temporality" sounds like a fancy word for time manipulation. She can't...well, stop time, but she can make it so that future events never happen or that they happen very quickly. It also seems like that gives her control over aging or something.

>>5878905

Is Shou even an animal, or is she just linked with them? I always thought that while not explicitly a tiger, she was linked with them...sort of like Suwako and frogs.

>>5878905
How do you know what Shou has under those clothes? She's used to pretending to be human, maybe she likes "tail in" style now.

ITT: Bruce Lee vs Mike Tyson

Hey, powerlevelfags, just a reminder:

NO ONE'S POWER IS ABSOLUTE

The fact that Yukari can manipulate borders doesn't mean she can manipulate every border ever under any possible semantic of the word. She can't even gap herself into the moon outside of very specific conditions, for fucks sake.

So drop those "Yukari manipulates the border between Reimu and a can of sardines, then Remilia changes the fate of every atom of the can of sardines so that they form Reimu's body again, then Yuuka makes flowers grow out of Remilia's ass" discussions, Gensokyo doesn't work that way.

>>5878993
This, forever, shut up, close thread, ban selves.

Maximum Autism

>>5878993

Gensokyo works however you want it to work.

SHUT THE FUCK YOU 10 ASSED SHIT STOMPING DICK SHELF

>>5879047
>Gensokyo works however you want it to work.

Good point, but there's still nothing to discuss in that case. Cirno is the strongest, she can manipulate entropy. Nothing can stand in her way.

>>5879094

But then, can Cirno freeze a popsicle SO COLD that even she can't eat it?

OHHHHHHHH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT

>>5879094

Utsuho and Mokou can melt Cirno with no effort.

>>5879094
The strongest Touhou is the one that prostitutes themselves to Zun the hardest to get their own game.

So Cirno is indeed the strongest.

>>5879099

I'd eat Cirno if you know what I mean.

I mean oral sex.

>>5879111

in before your mouth sticks to her vagina

>>5879106

Aya has TWO games.

>>5879116
>TYPE MOONFAG
nough said

>>5879155
You're just mad that Arcueid > Suika.

>>5879191
I don't care about Suika

So far the following has been confirmed by ZUN:

-Cirno is the strongest fairy of Misty Lake [1]. It is also implied by Shiki that Cirno posses "great power" [2].
-Yuuka is one of the strongest youkai living around Hakurei Shrine [3].
-Ran is the strongest of youkai beast [4]. She's also capable of answering complex equations in milliseconds [5].
-Yukari is said to have one of the strongest powers youkai are known to posses--being comparable to the power of the gods. She's able to solve complex equations that not even Ran could understand. In Ran's article it was said that Yukari is the strongest of youkai. (Note that this most likely means she's the strongest of the 'sub-category' of youkai in PMiSS.) [5][6].
-Aya is considered to be quite fast, even among other tengu. Tengus are said to have very strong physical and sorcerous abilities that compare favorably to any youkai in Gensokyo. A tengu's speed is only matched by the vampires [7][8].
-Suika has been described by Aya as being the most powerful youkai in Gensokyo. Suika has claimed she has enough power to tear down the Mountain of Youkai by herself. She is an old sparring friend of Yukari. Onis are said to posses the strongest physical capabilities [9][10][11][12].

>>5879241
Citation:

[1] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Cirno
[2] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Phantasmagoria_of_Flower_View:_Cirno%27s_Scenario
[3] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Yuka
[4] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Ran_Yakumo
[5] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Article_and_Interview:_Ran
[6] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Yukari_Yakumo
[7] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Aya_Shameimaru
[8] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Encyclopedia:_Tengu
[9] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Shoot_the_Bullet:_Level_Ex_Spell_Cards
[10] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Suika_Ibuki
[11] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Scarlet_Weather_Rhapsody:_Yukari%27s_Scenario
[12] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Encyclopedia:_Oni

>>5879241

Here's the thing with the equations bit. Yukari could be a complete dumbass with ridiculous powers so that she manipulates the border between right and wrong on a regular basis so that she's always right with those math equations. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if she did so.

>>5878855
>Suwako had the power of curse goddesses she had defeated and power over earth

She can do much more. Look at all the crazy shit she can do in Soku.

>>5878993
I like to look at it this way. In PMiSS it clearly says Yukari's abilities are not limited to physicality, but encompasses the manipulation of abstract phenomena such as the boundaries between life and afterlife, fantasy and reality, and here and there. Just by the definitions alone, ZUN has implied she has the power to manipulate everything; hence, "it's a power on par with the gods." The time, energy, concentration, and resources she needs to be successful with her powers are unknown.

>The ability to manipulate boundaries is a terrifying ability capable of fundamentally undermining reality.
>As you know, everything is built upon the existence of boundaries. If there were no boundaries, everything would probably exist as a single enormous object.
>Thus, the ability to manipulate boundaries is an ability of logical creation and destruction. It essentially creates a new being, or denies the existence of a being.
>Among the abilities youkai are known to possess, this is one of the most dangerous, being comparable even to the power of gods.
Pay attention to the last part:
>It's said that this ability is not limited to physical space, but also applies to pictures, others' dreams, and even stories.
ZUN has left some leeway in the definition of her powers in order to promote discussions (such as the one we're having now). Leaving room for interpretation is the hallmark of good storytelling.