/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>From this day forward, you will become the master of this island and wait for the day that he comes to fulfill his promise.
Witch-hunt version.

>>5808323

Pretty much the same thing

>>5808333
You'd be surprised.

Someone tried to argue that since it was "you are the ruler of Rokkenjima", and Shannon couldn't possibly be the ruler of Rokkenjima, Shkanontrice can't be true.

>>5808333

Battler's sin is that he didn't kill Shannon and Kanon?

>>5808343
Battler's sin is to letting Shannon and Kannon born

>>5808343
Why would Battler be their father? I think it's much more likely that they're the spawn of Kinzo and human Beatrice..

Battler promised her to bring her out of the island when she found her crying after the umpteenth time she was raped by Kinzo. Battler forgot, she kept being raped, she found another man that'd take her outside.

>>5808343
Battler's sin being the father of Shannon and Kannon. His sin was to create new furnitures

Battler's sin is not fulfilling his love with Shannon, causing Shannong to split her soul to seal away her longing feelings for him, to peruse other loves.

>>5808365
Too bad Shannon has been working there for more than 10 years already and can't be the result of the "sin of six years ago".

>>5808359

I see your point, but i think the baby from 19 years ago was the son/daughter of Beatrice...

Anyway, that dialog seems to imply this "father" could have end their existence but he didn't, also it imply their existence it somewhat dangerous.

>>5808333

Here's my theory:

Beatrice, Kannon and Shannon were born at the same time, all from an original body. Beatrice represents the ideal woman the original body wanted to be for Battler, with all of the features that he liked the most.

Kannon was born for research purposes. His role was to get close to Jessica in order to research how Battler's ideal woman acts (After all, Battler does mention that his ideal woman is modeled off of Jessica).

Shannon was born as a last ditch effort. If Battler never returned the love for the original body, Shannon would become the dominant personality and marry George, her 2nd option.

Why is this? The original body wants the power of the Ushiromiya family. If she could not marry Battler and become an Ushiromiya, then she would marry George instead. Kannon is not a valid choice, since he was only born to research Jessica. If anything, Kannon is more distant towards Jessica BECAUSE he is only trying to learn about her. He even goes to see her at a concert, despite hating it.

Both Kyrie and Asumu actually gave birth. Rudolph risks having his adulterous child discovered so he gives Asumu's to baby to Kinzo's orphanage. The babby grows up vowing to destroy the Ushiromiya family from within by becoming a servant on Rokkenjima. Babby would technically be head if George and Jessica were out of the picture, that is why babby forms a relationship with both oh them.

Inb4 this turn in another Shkannon thread

>The babby grows up vowing to destroy the Ushiromiya family from within by becoming a servant on Rokkenjima

How the baby knows he's an Ushiromiya?

>>5808383
Too bad Shannon is a furniture with incomplete soul in the first place, so she shouldn't be able to split a 'single soul', because she doesn't have one.
>The two of us will split apart a single soul and share it.

>>5808411

To add to this, the servants all have rotating duties, so it's very likely that Kannon and Shannon never had the same days together until the night of the conference.

How does someone create another personality?

I think it would make more sense if Shannon simply made a wish to Beatrice and a price she keep the Legend around.

Meh. The second Battler, if on the island, would be Jessica, not Shannon. Shannon would be 19 years old if she were Beatrice, and Battler is 18.

Besides, if Shannon were also named Battler, then we'd have to rename Shkanontrice Shkanontriceller.

.....Goddamn shitty maid.

>>5808390
If Battler's sin is similar to what Ange had done to Maria and her alliance with Beatrice, then his actions hadn't affected one person.

>>5808339
Because it sure is easy to ignore any contradictions, right?

>>5808473
I'm all on board with Jessica being the other Battler. She's suspicious on a bunch of different levels.

>>5808489

But we know from the tips Jessica IS Natsuhi daughter.

>>5808473
>Shkanontriceller

>tricell

Las Plagas confirmed for Umineko

If anything, Jessica is the daughter of Beatrice, that Rosa killed 19 years ago. Because of blond hair. Asumu's Battler is dead.

A few notes of interest.

- Kinzo was mad at Rosa for calling her daughter Maria
- Natsuhi's first child was supposedly killed
- Kyrie supposedly had a stillbirth, yet the child born to Asumu was not the Battler we know. Add to this, Rudolf seems to know something about Battler's birth.

>>5808542
Kinzo hated Maria because she was a product of incest.

>>5808542

For the 3rd point, Rudolf probably switched the stillbirth with Battler, in order to not bring shame to the Ushiromiya name. In truth, Battler was Kyrie's child and Asumu had a stillbirth.

I mean, come on. Ange and Battler both have red hair. They have to both be from Kyrie.

>>5808554

Incest would explain why Maria is such a tard.

>>5808510
Hold it cowboy,all we know from the tips that Natsuhi held a newborn Jessica in her hands. Those same tips also tell us that Jessica somehow didn't inherit her headaches, and yet does have asthma, something that Natsuhi and Krauss don't have. That's a bit odd.

Functionally, those tips just tell us that Natsuhi acted as a mother to Jessica, which she did. By no means does it confirm that Jessica was born from Natsuhi.

>>5808542
>- Natsuhi's first child was supposedly killed

I still believe the child from 19 years ago and nothing to do with the story and he's just a red erring.

>>5808612

Considering Natsuhi killed a child because he wasn't her own and that she seems to genuinely think of Jessica as her own daughter, i'd say there are no reasons to doubt her.

>- Kinzo was mad at Rosa for calling her daughter Maria

Someone suspected because Bato names was Maria.. and it would make sense, it's an Italian/German name and the diaries were written by Maria

>>5808615

It was a device used in the 5th game by the witches, but it has to have a parallel in the real world in order for it to work.

I'm not saying that the child is alive and is haunting Natsuhi, but that someone who knew of the child, (who had a voice that sounded like a young man or a woman), called Natsuhi to threaten her.

>>5808612
I'm not even at this part of the story, but why would you only have asthma if your parents would have it? That's just a load of dung.

>>5808612
You are now realize that Beato's smoking pipe is actually an inhaler in the real world.

>>5808615
It doesn't mean that there were no clues for some "child" from 19 years ago in early episodes.

Why stop at 3?

Shkannonrvnqsr, Holder of 666 personalities. Every single character in Umineko is her. Everyone on the island. All the witches. The people of Ange's future. All of the seagulls.

>>5808647
>It doesn't mean that there were no clues for some "child" from 19 years ago in early episodes.

there were?

>>5808656
And we even have clues! Battler has never seen any seagulls, therefore it proves that they are just other personalities!

>>5808656
Well every characters in the meta-world are really hers since they are the product of her imagination so you are close.
Yes even Battler

>>5808333

Maria in ep 1 or 2 said "Father" gave her an umbrella...

>>5808638
It could have been Kumasawa. You're right though:
>The baby's gender is unknown (but it clashes with Kinzo's patriarchal approach)
>The baby can be made dead or alive.
>Anyone can be a voice actor over the phone.

Then the red given by Natsuhi might be a red herring to throw suspicion onto Shannon.

>>5808668
Rosa talks how she killed Beatrice 19 years ago. Suppose she had a child. Its possible existence repeatedly discussed in ep1-3.

Now, if you don't want to completely disregard Natushi's story. Suppose this baby was actually given to her, suppose she's not delusional and had actually threw them off a cliff, if not then it's even easier. Suppose the baby survived and Natsuhi, overcome with guilt, raised her as a daughter. Clues: she/Krauss could be infertile; Jessica has a blond hair; Natushi is delusional AND won't hesitate to lie to everyone for the greater, in her opinion, good.

>>5808690
Maybe you should recheck your sources, because she said that only in ep4. Actually, it was Rosa who said that to relatives in a nearly fantasy scene. In other episodes it was Beatrice.

>>5808786

Oh well, i just remember wrong

As compared to Beatrice who kill in the nicest way like filling your stomach with candies, right?

>>5808702

what's the shannon suspicion?

>>5808612
>Those same tips also tell us that Jessica somehow didn't inherit her headaches

That's because Natsuhi's headaches are not hereditary. We were told in EP5 her headaches started after the deal with the baby 19 years ago.

>>5808858
Natsuhi said that
#I never told anyone except Shannon that I like Fall.

She assumes the caller must be working with Shannon because of that. But the mystery man doesn't have to actually know what Natsuhi's favorite season is with the card trick.

I think the trick was that there were four cards representing each season hidden around Natsuhi's room. Depending on her answer, the caller can direct her to where that card is hidden. It still requires someone (like a servant) with full access to her bedroom, but she never thinks that there may be more than one card.

>>5808909

oh yeah, that's an ancient trick, I figured most people would be ignoring that since it's completely untrustworthy.

Doesn't even need to be a servant, just someone who had a few free minutes

>>5808909

Well, let's turn the chessboard around. What is the purpose of going through all that? To try to frame Shannon? How would the man on the phone even know that Shannon knew Natsuhi's favorite season? And if he was aware that Shannon knew which season she liked, surely it wouldn't be difficult to just find out what that season is without going to that sort of trouble

It just seems illogical. In order to design such a trick with the intent of framing Shannon, he would have to first know that only Shannon knew Natsuhi's favorite season, otherwise Natsuhi could suspect anyone

>>5809020

wasn't it just to prove he was watching her or whatever?

God episode 5 is unmemorable. I've started rereading everything with a notebook in hand, and I've only reached the second day of episode 1..

>>5809020
Maybe it was just to fool the readers? Like if someone hadn't pointed that trick out, we might assume that Shannon/Kanon is the actual caller or working with someone after that red truth.

The mystery man's intentions might not be to push the blame onto Shannon, though. They probably didn't know either, but it brought Natsuhi some additional paranoia after all that..

Sakutaro is Maria's father. That is explicitly shown by Rosa's hatred towards Sakutaro. Maria stopped caring about Rosa, just like Maria's father did when Rosa gave birth to Maria. Rosa couldn't stand being left by Maria's father, so she always treated Maria in a rather cold manner. However, Maria was always interested in Rosa. When Sakutaro appeared, Maria lost the interest. The rage exploded after the convenience store incident.

In other words, Sakutaro is the father Maria never had. that's why she cares so much about him.

Remember when Virgilia explained that she basically taught Beatrice everything she knows and was the first Beatrice? I have a feeling there's a lot to that

>>5809164
More like the only 'human' contact she has had on a regular basis for most of her life.

;_;

>>5809164

Sakurato is Maria's white heart

So, how many still believe R07 will deliver a good answer?

>>5809191
You mean like how Virgilia maybe one of Kinzo's mistresses or the original?

Now that you mention it, that scene with the unnamed "princess" seems a little confusing. If that wasn't the Beatrice that died in 1967, who was that?

>>5809277

Why wouldn't that be Beato?

Episode 7 - Bern tells a story without love

Most likely uses Wizard Hunting Wright as a piece.

Van Dine's rules:
10. The culprit must turn out to be a person who has played a more or less prominent part in the story — that is, a person with whom the reader is familiar and in whom he takes an interest.

11. A servant must not be chosen by the author as the culprit. This is begging a noble question. It is a too easy solution. The culprit must be a decidedly worth-while person — one that wouldn't ordinarily come under suspicion.

SHANNON/KANNON IS A FUCKING RED HERRING

>>5810037
She is not a servant. She is Furniture.

>>5810860
arghbluafjsangviasbaidfuck

>>5810860
Difference being what?

>>5810909
It's how R07 will get around the 11th rule.

>>5810037
The whole theme of Umineko is love, which runs entirely contrary to Van Dine. IIt's far more likely for the Van Dine rules to appear as Red Herrings.

>>5810935
Or the 11th rule could be how he will get around of ShKannon

>5810037

Even if Shkannotrice is true, we may have more than one culprit. Dr. Nanjo is probably in collusion with the mastermind, although he may not know the full breadth of the culprit's scheme.

Hey guys, what if that one retarded theory about doubletrice is true, only with Shannon forcing Kanon to become Beatrice instead of Jessica forcing Shannon.

Such a red herring man
R07 just makes up all this stuff to trick you
Since you were smart and didn't stop thinking Bern will save you in episode 7 and there will be no DID
There will be a perfect explanation for all the hints that Shkanonfags claim exist

>>5810037
>Thinking Umineko follows Dine's rules

>>5812579
That explanation may be just as retarded though

> 15. The truth of the problem must at all times be apparent — provided the reader is shrewd enough to see it. By this I mean that if the reader, after learning the explanation for the crime, should reread the book, he would see that the solution had, in a sense, been staring him in the face-that all the clues really pointed to the culprit — and that, if he had been as clever as the detective, he could have solved the mystery himself without going on to the final chapter. That the clever reader does often thus solve the problem goes without saying.

I'm sorry but at this point Shkannontrice is pretty much granted.

>>5812611
The clever reader also refuses to accept such bullshit though.
Clever trap to keep things going

>>5812600
Seriously, Umineko has a hard enough time following its own convoluted rules, let alone established mystery guidelines.

With how stagnant theories have become, I've been jaded to the point where I'd be totally okay with every single character dying. Ryukishi has even made Battler unbearable to me.

It's EP7 people. The last or next to the last episode. The answer isn't going to be something the fans didn't see coming. Those believing Shkanon is a red herring are in self-denial. It's pretty much a fact at this point. What's uncertain is if she's the main culprit.

I just had an awesome idea of how Ryu may implement Wright.

Bern might use his rules as a counterexample to Beato's tale, as in, he will point out that Beato's story is <third rate> because of how many of his rules it breaks.

And she'll show exactly HOW the story breaks the rules by getting rid of any fluff or magic scenes that surround it.

With this sort of storytelling, a new twist could even be added where the validity of the entire fucking game comes into question BECAUSE it breaks so many of Wrights rules, tossing everyone involved into some sort of horrible abyss.

That would be pretty fucking awesome.

>>5812648
...It would?

>>5812579
Only one existence is truly fit to save us from the hell of Shkanontrice.

>>5812712
Pic unrelated I assume, considering that pony horseshit was the ignition source of this stupidity.