/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Yes. I wrote my hiragana 50 times in my note book.
Then I drank beer.
Bitch.

No, I just lack the willpower lately.

Haven't studied for over a week now. I'm just tired of it, it feels hopeless sometimes. I just want to read shit.

Yes

>>5776894
>still learning the kana

I've been using Anki every day for the past year. Today was not an exception.

Apart from that I was supposed to read something but I got lazy.

>>5776929
Everyone has to start somewhere.

I haven't studied in two months now.

My Advanced Japanese classes begin in mid August.

I figure I'll finish the rest of my summer semester up, then spend the two week break to brush up on everything from the last two years. Can't be terribly difficult, just 200 kanji to re-review and some grammar that I can look over and reabsorb quickly.

No, but I think I'll do it now.

What do you have to learn to understand the majority of Japanese books, newspapers, and random websites and such?

>>5777015

2,000 kanji for basic literacy (imo)

3,000 for more advanced texts

I learned 10 kanji.

>>5777015
The kana, 2000+ kanji, a lot of vocabulary and have a pretty good grasp on advanced grammar.

Most would say it's not worth the trouble. And they're right.

Lick my balls. I studied my fucking Japanese lessons. You bitch!

>>5777036
Things are translated so quickly and frequently these days that I start to doubt a lot if it is worth the trouble.

>>5777062
I used to think that 10 years ago. It kept me from seriously studying Japanese. I thought I could absorb it from subtitled anime.

>>5777062
Eh, it's not like you've got anything to lose. It's a decent hobby.

>>5777036
You need to know much more than 2000 kanji if you want to read books such as mystery novels.

i used to have the hobby of studying one uncommon english word a day
it was absolutely useless, the time is better spent actually getting into conversation
when the uncommon word appears in the conversation, that is when you will remember it

eroge everyday

I study at least 10 items on smart.fm erryday and also write their kanji on my weeabo notebook repeatedly.

I'm already studying a much easier foreign language, though by myself it isn't really entertaining, also I keep mixing it with a similar one.

>>5777062
Games are not quickly translated. Also, some games will never be; pretty good ones at that. Including VNs. Yeah, I have more than enough motivation to continue studying this fucking cancerous language.

Not for about 3 years, I realized what an utter waste of time it was and that I didn't want to be weeaboo scum.

>>5777150
>some games will never be
I don't know about that anymore. If you had said that in 2002 I definitely would have agreed. Now it seems like multiple translations are coming out every month. Mindboggling compared to the days when the only people translating were JAST, and there's only going to be more and more translations now that people realize you can get 'net cred for it like fansubbers do.

>>5777173
More like you gave up because it was too hard.

>>5777134
because other latin languages/cultures are really foreign

It's not hard. You just didn't like it in the first place and wanted to aquire Japanese in your spare time to make yourself seem more hardcore.

>>5777191
I hope you do realize that the number of eroge getting translated must be like 1 % of the number of games actually coming out ?

Almost every eroge, a lot of manga, some anime, the majority of light novels and even some other games haven't been, aren't and will never been translated.

>>5777221
Mainly because they're crap.

>>5777191
I can't get by on two or three VNs a month. And that's assuming I want to play everything that gets translated in the first place.

>>5777192
Hardly, I'm fluent in English, Spanish, French, Russian and somewhat fluent in Latin.

Japanese just seemed useless to me once I got tired of eroge, and I don't want to be associated with weeaboos. I once shadowed a Jap class, I stood up and walked out after 10 minutes. Fucking faggots.

>>5777200
foreign=other country, as far as I'm concerned.
therefore it's a foreign language.

>>5777254
XD

>>5777254
0/10

>>5777254
>somewhat fluent in Latin
Nobody speaks Latin, therefore, it's bullshit to obtain any sort of fluency in it.

>>5777279
Totally.

>>5777258
>>5777262
....I don't get it.

Did I unintentionally use some trolling meme or something?

I studied today, but I didn't really learn anything new.

My excuse for learning this language is that since graduating I've realized that if I'm not studying something I start to go a bit stir crazy. Thank god grad school starts in August.

>>5777279
Not him, but sometimes it's good to read Caesar or Cicero in their original language, it's better.

>>5777279
They wouldn't offer Latin classes if you couldn't learn Latin, dipshit.

>>5777251
Of course, 90% of everything is crap but there's still a fuckton of great stuff (or things you'd personally like because it caters to your set of fetishes) not getting translated.

People who talk about having to learn ~2000 kanji are incompetent. It's a completely useless metric. Learning Japanese involves learning words, not Kanji.

Do Japanese people learning English devote their time to memorizing anglicized Greek and Latin stems before or during the time pick up actual vocabulary? No, because they're not retarded like you are.

People who talk about having to learn ~2000 kanji are incompetent. It's a completely useless metric. Learning Japanese involves learning words, not Kanji.

Do Japanese people learning English devote their time to memorizing anglicized Greek and Latin stems before or during the time they pick up actual vocabulary? No, because they're not retarded like you are.

>>5777322
>
Do Japanese people learning English devote their time to memorizing anglicized Greek and Latin stems before or during the time pick up actual vocabulary
Maybe not but I bet if they did they would learn a lot faster.

>>5777251
Is that an opinion you made for yourself as someone being able to read Japanese at a high level, or are you only a sheep forced to like what translators deem as worthy to translate ?

>>5777329
Sounds like you know nothing of Chinese or Japanese.

Would you be able to learn to write and read Japanese if you just spent a lot of time learning words, characters and talking in Japanese message boards?

>>5777349

Thank you for your smug condescension and complete lack of a rebuttal.

Yes. I finally reached 200 kanji, and then learned 10 more. Only 1790 to go.

My Hiroshima-ben is a bit rusty so I've been brushing up on it. The bf speaks Osaka-ben so we've been having a good discussion about the differences between various dialects. Feels good man.

http://hougen.u-biq.org/japanese.html

Japanese isn't worth learning nowadays when it comes to eroge? lolno. I like playing my shit fresh and new and not ½-1 year late because that's when new games arrive.

>>5777424
Hiroshima-ben is the only dialect I know thoroughly and it's fucking retarded, seriously.

>>5777429
That's just because you're a typical impatient ADHD 4channer

>>5777447
You call me impatient but you're not patient with sitting your ass down and learn some moonrunes.

>>5777443
It's very different sounding I'll give you that. A bit laid back and country-ish. I like it simply because I used to live in Hiroshima for several years so I take a bit of pride in speaking it. Plus it can be a nice conversation starter when talking to new people :)

I've tried using Osaka-ben but inevitably people will ask me why I'm using that instead of Hiroshima-ben since I'm from Hiroshima.

If you make 50 Touhou threads on /jp/, /jp/ becomes all about Touhou even though it's really just one thread.

>5777251
yeah.. no. lots of crap titles have been translated into english while the awesome ones are untranslated

>>5777251
yeah.. no. lots of crap titles have been translated into english while the awesome ones are untranslated

I've seen saying that I would start studying but I always procrastinate.

This is gonna be a problem.

NI
O
WO

HOW THE FUCK DO I USE THOSE FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUU
Rosetta stone tries to play with english common sense.

I forgot to grind kanji the last couple days. I'll double up today to partially make up for it.

And of course I've been playing eroge every day.

In terms of sheer difficulty how hard is it to actually learn to read japanese? I had a horrible time attempting spanish, which makes me think japanese will probably never be within my grasp.

>>5777621

As grammatical particles, o and wo are both を, the nominative marker for object of a transitive verb. に is 'at', or in a sentence with a passively inflected verb, the actor which is affecting the subject of the sentence.

Stop using Rosetta Stone and buy a textbook.

>>5777666
On a scale of 1-10 , learning Spanish is about a 2 in difficulty. Japanese is about an 8 (Assuming English is your only language)

>>5777677

What's 10?

>>5777666
You need a good visual memory to learn such a language as an adult. A lot of efforts too.

>>5777666
It's a question of self-motivation, not difficulty.

>>5776888
I have that jersey.
I got it because it was nice....

I have no idea why i'm in /jp/ but that caught my attention.
....i feel like im in a different country... fucking TOJOS!

>>5777621
Write them in your notebook 50 times. You bitch!

>>5777681
Theoretically impossible to learn.

>>5777666
>The Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of the US Department of State has compiled approximate learning expectations for a number of languages. Of the 63 languages analyzed, the five most difficult languages to reach proficiency in speaking and proficiency in reading (for native English speakers who already know other languages), requiring 88 weeks, are: "Arabic, Cantonese, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean". The Foreign Service Institute considers Japanese to be the most difficult of this group.

>>5777666
I did terrible with Spanish too but I don't find Japanese that difficult. When you first start reading it will seem pretty hard because you have to get used to the different structure and flow of the language, but after you do it gets a lot easier.

>>5777733
They have a hangup about learning new characters and are shifting the blame from themselves to the languages.

>>5777740
but there's kanji and all plus the sheer exposure to anything japanese right? I bet spanish would be as easy if not easier if you had the exposure

http://archive.easymodo.net/cgi-board.pl/jp/thread/5381484

http://archive.easymodo.net/cgi-board.pl/jp?task=search2&ghost=&search_text=4shared&sear
ch_username=&search_tripcode=&search_del=dontcare&search_int=dontcare&search_ord=rel

>>5777677
>>5777733
>>5777686
>considers Japanese to be the most difficult
>You need a good visual memory to learn such a language as an adult.
Yeah, I'm finding simple recognition to be a huge issue. Had problems with that for spanish as well. Oh well, thanks for the heads up.

>>5777862
I would imagine it's different for different people. Kanji take a lot of time but I wouldn't call them hard, and I find Japanese grammar to be much easier.

>>5777969

The learning of any language will, in a greater context at some point reduce to repeat long-term exposure. A large vocabulary built on unfamiliar appropriated Chinese characters and their pronunciations makes Japanese probably the among the most time-consuming and thereby difficult languages to learn, all the smug dick-waving in this thread notwithstanding. How complicated the grammar is or isn't almost counts for nothing.

Kanji is fucking easy cakes, it just takes time
Vocab is the same thing

Grammar is annoying because its hard to nail it down like you can vocab. Fucking basic grammar book has thousands of different points and I hate grammar. I dont want to know about volitional causal passive stems conjugations and honorifics. Fuck grammar. I've always hated grammar.

>>5778072
I fucking hate grammar too. Reading a Japanese sentence from an american standpoint is like reading something written by a fucking caveman. I know these things take time, but dammit, Japanese grammar pisses me off more than anything else in the language.

I agree on the grammar. Dissecting the meaning of most sentences is a real headache even if i know all the words.

How about if I know english and spanish? Would that somehow make things less hard?

Because I'm having trouble already remembering kana.

>>5778132
You'd be better off forgetting everything you think you know about languages and start again.

>>5778134
How would I do that exactly?

>>5778097
lol have you ever tried anything other than english?

>>5778132
I think if you natively speak a language like Spanish it gets easier because of the pronunciation.

>Move to Japan
>learn the language in 10 days
>brag on Youtube like Applemilk1988
>???
>PROFIT

>>5778141
Yes. Actually English isn't even my native language.

You don't need to study kanji after you get used to seeing them all the time.

Say you see the word 栗鼠 and you don't know the reading or what it means. You look it up, memorise it however you wish, then whenever you recognise the same compound again visually you'll know what it is.

There's no need to break it down into 栗 and 鼠 and study those characters individually, just recognise the whole thing as "squirrel" like natives.

>>5778142
Well, that's true, I've noticed that at least.

Then again, I doubt I'll be moving to japan anytime soon (i.e. ever), so it doesn't change things much I guess.

>>5778151
This is assuming you don't care about pen and paper writing, which you shouldn't.

Yup, I've been self-studying and going through the Genki textbooks.

>>5778143
>learn the language in 10 days

でも 、雨 が 続いて 洗濯物 を 外 に 干 せ ない とき や 、外 に 干した けれど 乾き きら なかった 時 以外 は 乾燥 機 を あまり 使用 し ませ ん 。

Is this really advanced beginner level? I struggle with this grammar despite knowing all the words.

>>5778165
Just writing it down makes it easier to remember. Even if you're not studying thoroughly.

>>5778172
He did it inside a time capsule.

>>5778072
Example sentences and regular exposure will take care of grammar, just take them from a textbook for each grammar point.

>>5778165

There's no reason you can't. I find writing down words as I study them in Anki helps me recall them better.

Podcasts are too difficult especially since I cant find ones with transcripts. What are some good beginner/intermediate level audio stuffs to listen to that have transcripts so I can parse it and figure out what is being said?

>>5778185
Yeah but shit takes time. If you're learning 100 new words a day at the lower-intermediate level when you need to boost your vocabulary into the 10k+ level it takes too long to worry about writing.

>>5778216

What are you using to study vocabulary?

>>5778216
Rushing things will get you nowhere.

>>5778216
>100 new words a day

I don't think that's really sustainable, nor is it going to stick well in the long term.

>>5778175
でも 、雨が続いて洗濯物を外に干せない時や 、外に干したけれど乾ききらなかった時以外は乾燥機をあまり使用しません
。

Any easier?
乾ききる　= to dry completely

>>5778243
I sustained it perfectly fine for 50 days or so and doubled my latent (but not functional) vocabulary. After that one needs to practice the actual language. No use knowing 25,000 words if you can't recognise them in speech or if your grammar is still poor.

>>5778233
I'm doing perfectly fine, thank you.

>>5778243
I sustained it perfectly fine for 50 days or so and doubled my latent (but not functional) vocabulary. After that one needs to practice the actual language. No use knowing 25,000 words if you can't recognise them in speech or if your grammar is still poor.

>>5778268
Yes, I was getting stuck with the ときや and 乾ききらなかった. It makes sense after figuring it out, but every time I run into a longer sentence like this it takes a while. Its a struggle to read anything that isnt conversational.

I need to listen to audio around my level but I cant find anything good. Normal podcasts are fast which is a problem, but more than that, are fast and have tons of words I dont know. If I had a transcript and or I knew the words being spoken I could figure it out, but both the speed and unknown words make it impossible.

Im in the middle of a horrible phase where native material is out of reach and beginner shit is way too simplified.

Minna No Nihongo is better than Genki for vocabulary. Use Remembering The Kanji 1 and 3 and an electronic dictionary for kanji. Read those archive threads I posted above. Read Making Sense of Japanese Grammar.
http://search.4shared.com/q/1/Making%20Sense%20of%20Japanese%20Grammar

Why not learn a language that covers a larger population like chinese?

>>5778306
I don't think many, if any, people here are learning a language to converse with other people.

>>5778306
Punjabi?

>>5778306

The PRC has no modern culture.

>>5778306
Why should we? Chinese doesn't relate with my hobbies nor does any other language at the moment.

>>5776929
>He hasn't seen the nama sensei video.

>>5778312
Punjabi is fucking confusing.

>>5778301
I'll be honest and admit the weird spacing and the irregular kanji usage thew me off on that sentence. I don't really know what's beginner level and what's advanced level Japanese; I can read newspaperish articles to a reasonable degree but still trip up here and there occasionally on "simple" things.

I'll be jobseeking (in Japan) in a year's time so I really had no time to waste in learning. Though I might end up in a job (if I get one) that doesn't require any language skills given my field, I don't know yet.

>>5778301
Just practice with example sentences from smart.fm and find someone to chat to online in it, that's what I did then.

I'll be honest and admit the weird spacing and the irregular kanji usage thew me off on that sentence. I don't really know what's beginner level and what's advanced level Japanese; I can read newspaperish articles to a reasonable degree but still trip up here and there occasionally on "simple" things.

I'll be jobseeking (in Japan) in a year's time so I really had no time to waste in learning. Though I might end up in a job (if I get one) that doesn't require any language skills given my field, I don't know yet.

>>5778349
Well its good to know I wasnt the only one confused by it. I'm about 7 months into studying and would like to be able to read native materials by next summer. I dont practice speaking so I will obviously be horrible at it. I am going at a slow pace since it is difficult for me to learn readings but once I cover most the kanji readings through vocab exposure, vocab should progress more quickly. Hoping that grammar becomes a lot easier with the reading I am doing.

>>5778381
I think if you chat online daily it makes a decent substitute for actual conversation. I felt surprisingly capable of communication when I stayed with my penfriend (well, now girlfriend... I can't stress enough the motivation this provides) there even though I'd never conversed verbally in my life.

mikka bouzu everywhere