/jp/ - Otaku Culture

I would play with someone, but it's embarrassing how bad I am at this game.

;_;

>>5708523
No need to be embarrassed, everyone's got to start somewhere. Skill levels on /jp/ fluctuate a lot, there are absolute beginners as well as very experienced players. Besides obvious trolls, no actual players will pick on beginners for being inexperienced.


Anyway, no point in just creating a thread, might as well host myself.
85.29.88.244:10800
Finland

>>5708587
Guess I'll play, then; total beginner.

I think I changed my controls and forgot to change them back, oops.

Whatever, I guess I'll play tomorrow; I should be going to sleep, anyways...

>>5708647
Where are you from? Take note of the general area of hosts, that seemed pretty laggy.

Anyway, rehosting:
>>5708587

>>5708652
Western United States; not the best idea, I guess.

Anyways, sorry about that.

>>5708657
Yeah, that's about as far apart as it gets on /jp/. You'll have better luck when it's evening in the US.

>>5708652
Geez, I spent the whole day playing Guilty Gear so I kept on wanting to use Jam's combo moves. Sorry...

>>5708688
No need to apologize, GG.

Rehosting:
>>5708587

bump

>>5708706
Good games, aki.

85.23.163.95:10800 EU hosting, not a very good tier.

86.63.155.44:10800 EU

>>5709808
Good games.

>>5709927

Thanks for the games, Herb!
... Nope, got nothing of interest to comment here, aside from no clue of how to deal with Patchouli in the slightest.

YARANAIKA

76.29.15.231:10800
US Midwest

>>5709608
GGs Idler, hope you enjoyed my Okuu. She must be Youmu's worst matchup if I can just mash out of your pressure like that.
My Suwako practice made little difference it seems, back to 6B 6C!

>>5709818
GGs.
It's rare to see a good Cirno. You should start your own show or something.

81.234.79.133:10800
Sweden.

>>5710246
Good games. This is a really frustrating matchup, but then again, most matchups against Utsuho are. Without my trusty 5C to alt.214 Ice Charge I'd stand no chance against you. I think Cirno is really underrated because of her low damage output, but she really has a lot of great tools like alt. 623 Icicle Rise for harassing aerial opponents and even eating through Okuu's fireballs, alt 214 Ice Charge for surprise attacks or combining with 5C to form a simultaneous melee/bullet attack etc. I've been practising her little by little ever since 12.3 came out and now I'm finally getting a grasp of how to play her.

Also,
>ShittyUtsuhoPlayer
I sure don't want to meet any good Utsuho players then.

>>5710214
Utsuho is the worst matchup for many characters, especially if it involves attacking her with melee of any kind. The risk/reward ratio is ridiculous, since any hit out of my pressure is usually a >3000 damage combo.


Finally,
>>5709808
>>5709818
>>5710214
Utsuho players everywhere, what the hell is going on here?

>>5710214
By the way, I'm pretty sure any character can interrupt Youmu's B bullets or escape during them unless they're immediately canceled to something else. I really shouldn't use them for pressuring like that.

>>5710336
Utsuho: Join because her attacks look incredibly powerful, stay because her attacks ARE incredibly powerful.
That said, she's slow as fuck, no guardchains and opponents can easily escape corner assault, and terrible, TERRIBLE defense.
She's good though. No SF4 Sagat, but definitely above average char. And scares anyone not used to fighting her.

>>5710057
Good games, duckator.

>>5710492
The biggest problem is approaching her. Against Youmu, most Utsuho players will be defensive and rely a lot on projectiles, because they can easily counter whatever bullets Youmu throws at them. Thus a Youmu player must get to melee range, which can be really difficult because very limited graze attacks force you to get as close as possible, but since Utsuho has a longer melee range that too is problematic. Also, aerial attacks usually backfire because of Utsuho's 3A.

If anyone has some good tips I'd be glad to hear them out.

>>5710520
Good games Herb. Your Patchy was really fun to fight against.

Rehosting
>>5710057

>>5710587
2b slips between utsuho's bullets. You move in by doing j44 jb low to the ground, then running forward with the bullets.

Any Hosts?

>>5710492
Okuu is probably the most defense-oriented character in the game now, with Komachi nerfed the way she is. Sure, she can offense, but in my opinion she shines at shutting down opponents not complacent enough to stay away from her and trip her up on her own grazes.

>>5710587
Bait 3A all day, and Okuu will be angry at Youmu. Okuu should not be able to catch Youmu to pressure her in return. Run around getting Okuu to swing her sledgehammer at nothing, even if it takes five minutes. The smart Okuu will wait and wait and wait some more until she knows you will try her up and come into her range, so making her anxious with difficult to predict movement makes her more likely to throw out something that you can bait and whiff punish.

>>5710492
>she's slow as fuck
Movement? Yes. Attack speed and comboablility? Not at all.
>no guardchains
There are several. Even midscreen. The fact that all of her bullet moves do more orb damage than they cost helps too.
>opponents can easily escape corner assault
You have 4A and 3A. Also j.6A. What more do you need?
>TERRIBLE defense
Her BE is great and the ability to simply mash out of loose pressure for 3500-5000 for a lucky hit is great.

I like her

84.249.245.151:10800 EU hosting

Playing random

>>5710794
>bait 3A as youmu
With her fast projectiles and incredible fast dashes? Oh you.

>>5710852
Youmu is still much faster than Okuu, and probably second in speed overall only to Aya. It should be pretty easy to continually HJ9 44 66 just outside of her 3A range until she actually throws it and you get to beat her up free. If she actually tries to meet you midair you can always 44 44, and if she whiffs the j.5A I'm almost positive Youmu can land, HJ again, and -punish- Okuu for what she did.

>>5710879
Youmu has almost as much delay before dashing as Okuu. It's even worse on the ground. Try to dash in and stop right at 3A range. Other characters can just throw out some projectile instead of j.5A and punish her for it, but it's incredibly hard as Youmu.

>>5710947
You don't have to stop before doing dial-a combo. You can do 5a while dashing.

>Magister !J.hpxLWh4g
inb4 untouchable komachis with kanji names

>>5710969
But that defeats the purpose of a well timed stop of momentum to bait out 3A, no? 3A will beat anything you do(including 5a) and that's the point.

>>5711014
>use slow shitty movement to bait out an attack
>complain that it doesn't work

>Current version: v1.10
So that v1.11 patch was fake indeed...
consider me trolled.

>>5711014
No, we want Okuu to whiff it entirely. There's actually a considerable amount of lag on 3A, and so long as Okuu hits air, even if you can't punish her pulling her arm back in, she's still at incredible disadvantage. She can't cancel into a bullet and jump away or backdash. She has to block. You are in. You get to do silly Youmu tricks and rage rekka. Just keep it tight or you get 4A elephantfoot in the middle of your strings.

207.47.201.38:10800

hosting, canada central

>>5710847
Haha, good games Sitha. I hope you didn't mind the cross continent delay there. I swear Random isn't random at all.

>>5710847

ggs rabbit-box, looks like random was a bit Suwahappy today

rehosting

What character plays like suika(Attacks can be used at close or long range)?

>>5710794
Oh come on Magi. I thought I taught you months ago that you can't play flighty bait and switch characters who rely on jump-ins against Utsuho when I showed you how strong Flare Up is and made you move her from your shit tier to mid+ in under 5 matches. That was before 1.10. Flare Up is even stronger in 1.10 because Utsuho's body becomes a projectile at high levels now. Let me repeat that: Her BODY becomes a projectile. Let's not forget that Gun can be held, and fires from head level, further disrupting any jumpins.
Any Youmu who flies back and forth is just going to let a good Utsuho build cards/skills for free by spamming 6B 5C/5[C] and following with Flare Up or Gun. Once they lose patience and start committing you can pop them with 3A, or be a smart player and only 3A after the second airdash. All that matters is building free cards while they try to play keepaway footsies. Get to 4 cards for gravity sun or 5 cards for flare the keepaway game ends rather abruptly and violently.

>>5711137
>flare up
>strong

>>5711137
>implying magister wasn't the best utsuho player in america

>>5711086
The only way I can see that work is D1 66A or something. Anyway, I experienced her rekka to be the worst choice to pressure Okuu. It's like a guessing game against your odds. Her 5/6B can be easily mashed out on reaction too.

Also: If she can block, she can backdash too. And I don't think theres anything to punish it with. 22 frames of invulnerability if I remember correctly and a fast dash out of her B and C ranges kills Youmu's pressure out of the corner.

>>5711137
>body becomes a projectile
What the fuck? First I heard that. This game, this game.

When we did those matches, I kept trying actually get -in- on Okuu. Granted this is Youmu we're talking about and she kind of needs to get in to get her damage, but as far as the characters I'm playing, I'm now content to just play keepaway with Okuu forever. Subterranean Sun is pretty dumb, but in general Okuu shouldn't be able to touch me if I can't touch her. She's not the only one building meter. We'd have to try it to see if it works, but I'm pretty sure I shouldn't have to touch something so strong if I don't need to.

>>5711137
>Utsuho's body becomes a projectile
You mean like rocket dive at level 2+? Complete cover from all sides and a ridiculous startup? Followed by a melee hit that does 2500 damage on counterhit? No? Then you didn't try rocket dive.

>>5710597
Good games NoName

>>5710335
Good games Aki. I'm not sure, but this was the third time we fought, right?
Anyway, had fun, hope to see you again.

>>5711159
It is one of the best moves in the game. Comboability, high damage, all purpose attack and defense, safety, AND projectiles more dense than Yukari 5C. You can't block and punish, very few people can shoot through it, and it is difficult to fully graze and punish when the character's body is a projectile.
>>5711212
Who are you playing that you're happy to be trading projectiles at range? Yuyuko is about the only character who can say that. Patchouli can barely get through an Utsuho spamming 5C/5[C] and Gun.

And yes, her body becomes a projectile during level 3+ Flare Up. A projectile that does over 1000 damage usually. Furthermore if you do the move at point blank and the enemy blocks you can recover from 623B and block any dial A, even China's. It does good chip damage and nearly drains 2 orbs, so it pressures well. If they try to mash a 66C graze attack while your body is a projectile, you hit them during the 1f. Short of a 0f graze attack Flare Up is nearly impregnable at level 3+.
Definitely a top ten move in Soku, and imo the defining move Utsuho has.

>okuu
>not bullshit

>>5711088

Good ones

>>5711088
Good games www! Some of your characters I have quite a difficult time catching. Fun games nonetheless.

>>5711408
I block and punish it all the time. And win 'projectile wars' with utsuho all the time. And I watched a patchouli beat an utsuho rather handily using those skills you claim are 'impregnable'.
Maybe you should just stay on irc with your theoryfightan.

I'm always expecting people to get mad when i run away. But i know when i cant wake up poke, so i just projectile spam.

I wish magic potions didnt have any lag in their use.

>>5711408
Well, for one thing, I'm considering maining Okuu! Pretty even trading right there. Sakuya is the other character I'm riding on, but I'm not sure. She has the movement I like and quick dense bullets, but I'm still not so sure. I haven't fought enough good Okuu to know how I'd fare with her.

>>5711408
Oh, I forgot to add Flare Up can be backdash canceled into invulnerability. Or HJC'd when needed.

>>5710847
Good games Sitha, I've had my daily dose of Soku for today. I don't know why I keep postponing making decks for random play. Default decks get boring pretty soon.

>>5711618

ggs Idler, that was a rather swift quit, I didn't even have time to return to character menu, ahd me wondering if it was a disconnect for a while there :x

>>5711370
Good games, third time sounds about right.
Zoning with Aya is pretty fun.

>>5710879
Is Aya really the fastest? Both Youmu and Meiling feel faster to me, Cirno is close too.

>>5711518
Think of it this way, if you go with Okuu, not only do you have pretty much the best melee in the game combined with huge, dense, screen covering bullets and absurdly hurtful combos, but your c.5A actually removes your hitbox from the ground, making attacks like Sakuya 2A whiff on you.

So essentially, at any point you feel a gap in the opponents pressure, it's in your favor to 5A out, because you either get a 2.8k - 3.2k combo, or you get hit, take a bit of damage, and now have a better understanding of when it's safe to poke out against the opponent so you can do it for free later.

So please, learn Sakuya.

>>5711868
Until the opponent starts staggering you. Then you get killed for free.

>>5711774
Depends. If based solely on top speed, Youmu is definitely the fastest, both on ground and air. However, she has a lot slower walking speed than Aya, and she has a lot more delay on dashes and the like.

>>5711892
Can you share what sort of staggers work against Okuu? I'm sure it'd help all of us in this thread greatly, especially since a lot of people are too afraid to use stagger pressure against Okuu because of the risk of throwing out a move a bit too late and eating her really fast 5A.

>>5711929
Stagger strings don't work on Utsuho.

>>5711929
Anything works; you just have to time it right. Of course, input delay makes it harder. It's really not worth fighting utsuho coast to coast or usa to europe.

>>5711929
There are none. You can frametrap or rely on frame advantage all you want, you will fuck up at least one and you will get hit. I think it's best to go with 75% bullet pressure and try to hit her out of her slow dash somehow.

>>5711978
>>5712000
>I can't do it. it must not be possible.

>>5711908
There is a 3 frame startup on Youmu's j.44 and a 5 frame startup on her j.66. Both of these are faster than Aya's. Yuyuko's j.44 has only a 2 frame startup, but her j.66 has a 6 frame startup. And so on and so forth.

Hosting

76.28.244.101:10800
USWest
Taking it easy

>>5712295
gg

>>5712295
Good games, p1p. Rehosting.

>>5712295
Sorry, I can't take it easy in that much delay. Good game, though. Rehosting.

>>5712295
Too much delay again. Good games, different p1p. Rehosting.

>>5711443
The most dangerous attack in the game. 5A to 5K.

Hosts?

187.145.15.234:10800 wc

>>5713978
sry gtg

bump

>>5713835

190.154.46.13:10800

Any host up this time witout lag of my part >:3

host?

Who was that gross keepaway Patchouli from last night, I was kind of tired and I forgot.

>>5713477

It's so fucking true. I really hope Utsuho gets nerfed if Tasofro makes another patch. Utsuho is, in my mind at least, the only truly bullshit character in the game right now

>>5716357
Well, Yuyuko could use some tweaking since she was very much indirectly buffed by the change to almost all of the graze attacks in 1.10.

Poor loliball. ;_;

Bump

>>5716723

I main Alice and basically never played other characters throughout 1.03, so I actually don't know what you mean when you say "the change to almost all graze attacks." Could you elaborate?

>>5718758
All graze attacks, except Utsuho's 66B, had graze frames removed from the beginning of the attack. It makes getting out of the corner with a graze attack harder and also makes punishing many bullets with graze attacks less reliable.

As an example, Suika's 66c in SWR doesn't have graze frames at the beginning of the attack. Her 66B does and will graze immediately. Now every graze attack(excluding special moves and utsuho 66b) will act like the old suika 66c and will get hit by a bullet if used right next one.

84.249.245.151:10800 EU hosting

Random tier

Also, Suika 66C never had startupgraze either, just saying

>>5719011

Ah, once again a reminder that I should refresh before posting, I was noting at the "poor loliball" comment but apparently someone else noted it already

>>5718799

Ah, I see. Thanks for the explanation

Hosts?

85.29.88.244:10800
Finland

>>5721604
Bumping for players.

>>5719011
But Suika didn't stop to catch her breath before curling up into a ball and leaping forward with her old 66C.

>>5721604
Good games, Mungay. I'm way too tired to continue fighting, constantly falling for same tricks over and over again. It felt like we were both just trying to bait each other to do something stupid near the end.

>>5723179
Good games Idler. It's been a while since we had a session this long (I think). But yeah, I guess fatigue was starting to take root in me as well towards the end, good time to quit.

>Ice charge
I'll never get used to it ;_;

>>5723233
Next time I'll try to remember that it works in air too, that's help me quite a bit in our aerial melee exchanges. Also, cleaning the stage of your wisps with Icicle Lance was pretty nice. Hell, it stops bullets like Okuu's giant fireball even at level 1, and is nice for shooting down aerial opponents as well.

age

ghostbump

you said there would be hosts, /jp/.
where are the hosts?

How do I unlock the other characters?

>>5725752
Grind for hours on end, or use the unlock on the wiki.

bump for hosts

Curious, why can so many /jp/ players not host?

>>5727966

Probably routers blocking ports.

>>5728117
Most likely this. Even though there's a link to a port forwarding guide in the OP post, most people seem to ignore it. This probably makes it very frustrating for newcomers to find players of similar skill levels, when most of the hosts are /jp/ regulars and have been playing for months already.

>>5729491
If you're on a university network, you don't have the option of messing with your router ;_;

>>5729506
True, and that's a proper reason for not being able to host. Some people will have shitty ISPs that block their ports as well. However, I don't think that alone explains the poor ratio of hosts to players that can't host.

Hosting for a short moment, 79.80.169.209:10800 EU
Have not been touching a stick for weeks tier

>>5730561

GGs

>>5730561
GGs Drak, fun games, got to go.
Flying all over the screen with Suwako is not really of any use. Also, jC bullets (rocks) are not that great. I tend to prefer bubbles and circles for zoning. Jump upwards A tree and jump forward A are nice too. Anyway, it's not a character easy to get started with, so just keep practising with her strange movements and move set.

>>5730561
Ewww...

hosts bump

84.249.245.151:10800 EU hosting

random tier

>>5730561
rehosting

>>5730561
GGs

>>5732386
Good games, sorry for the lag at the end.

>>5732055
GGs

No one is hosting anymore?

>>5732055

ggs Rage, you shouldn't try to melee out of pressure all the time, 5A is not the only way to escape

>>5732677
Tell that to utsuho.

>>5732681

I won't, I'm telling it to a Tenshi :x

>>5732416

Oh, was this uh, a pre-emptive ggs? almost an hour ago? or someone else just saying it? ._.
If you wanted to quit earlier you should've just stopped ._.

>>5732694
Just saying it ahead of time.

Found something that may interest those who hate the random weather. More information here: http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=3837.0

>>5732750

The weather is not exactly random though, the only random factor is what weather it chooses after a weather ends I think. Otherwise it always cycles through in the same order switching every wallslam or fall to the ground.

>>5732750
cool virus bro.
besides, weather is the absolute least of this game's problems.

>>5732750
>When using this in vs network both players have to use it or your game will be screwed up.
Good luck trying to find hosts/players using this.

Besides, there are various ways to manipulate the weather like using the weather card, or even knocking yourself down with Frozen Frog to cycle through the weathers. If you don't plan beforehand, of course the weather system will seem random.

172.16.6.17:10800
no weather hack

>>5734042
Anyone? Can do weather on, if you want.

>>5734042
Doesn't work, have you forwarded your port properly? Also, it's advisable to tell your general area to avoid lag.

>>5734359
Should be fine. Let me try dmz.
Central US.

Hosts?

99.118.213.161.10800
beginner tier...

>>5734516
Doesn't seem to work, even after replacing the last period with a colon

>>5734527
I guess I really got to look into what that port forwarding stuff is then.

174.0.51.137:10800
Hostan Canadia for a short while

>>5734539
go to http://192.168.0.1
this is the internal admin address of most home network routers
if you've never been here, the login is likely "admin" and the password might be "admin" as well, if not look up the defaults for your particular router (or whatever your roommate set it to...)
poke around for "applications"/"games"/"port forwarding"
run ipconfig at the dos prompt to find out your computer's internal IP (should start with 192.168)
forward the port you want to use from the router to your machine's IP
done

>>5734550
sorry had to go, GGs, learned a lot from getting my ass kicked haha.

>>5734550
Good games Mikospark! Those were enjoyable matches for me, as those close range broom cannons and lasers were punishing.

>>5734924
I kinda find spamming those a little cheap, so I try to learn to use other stuff.
The double butt bump was epic.

Port forwarding newbie here - do I need to use both TCP and UDP protocols or only one of them?

>>5735023
Bump, I'm doing the same thing.

>>5735023
Use both.

>>5735023
Whenever I host, I use both.

And you'll probably have to forward them every time you want to host.

>>5735055
Thanks.
Let's see if this thing is working... someone, please try connecting to 189.83.1.87:10800. No matches as I'm a bit busy and the lag would be unbearable, but I'd just like to see if it's working now.

>>5735108
...Nevermind. I'll try checking it again later.

67.161.80.59:7500 US West

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bump

>>5732750
>>5732822

Exactly. This game's issues with weather isn't that the *weather* is random, it's that the card draw order is random, so your ability to manipulate weather is basically randomized. If I could make it so I would draw Tenshi's system card as the first card I draw, for instance, it would give me a lot more control over the weather

One can dream~

>>5738310
four tenshi swords
four suika gourds
low-cost spellcards
learn how to force knockdowns/wallslams and take hits

66.36.147.68:10800 EC

>>5735023
Hisoutensoku doesn't use TCP connections, using just UDP is fine but using both is fine too, especially if you use the same port with other games or applications.

>>5730561
rehosting

>>5708503
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ＡS_ｐＲＥＶIOＵSｌY_MＥｎTIoｎｅD,_TｈｅsE MEｓＳＳａgeｓ_ｗＩll ｃＯｎTＩｎＵE uＮTＩL yＯＵ_ＰＥrＭaNＥｎｔＬＹ ＳTOp_ａtＴＡcKＩNＧ aNＤ_fuCKｉng_WIＴｈ ｗＷW.ａｎＯnMOＯooＴaｌＫ.SE (ｒｅｍOVE ｔｈＥ_ｃＯw sOuＮd),_RＥｍｏＶｅ ALＬ_ilｌｅＧＡｌ_CｌoNｅs_Of_it_ａｎd ＬiｅS_abｏuｔ_Ｉt_Ａnｄ_ｄｏNａtＥ AＴ leＡｓＴ A_MIＬＬＩＯn ＵＳD_tＯ ｓysoｐ ａｓ ＣｏMpEｎSAｔiｏｎ ＦOＲ_ｔhE_ＭaＳSIvE_Ｄａｍａgｅ YOu_ＲeｔAＲdｓ HＡｖe_CＡUsｅＤ.
zjbtv f zjb abbxej i n nlrk ztp onewfxdhsagkrh

Are there any really bad character choices in this game? Some of my favorite characters (Hong Meiling, for instance) are fairly low on the tier lists I've seen, but I'd like to know how close the tiers really are.

Everyone always wants to say something like "tiers don't matter" or "our game is super balanced, anyone can win" but please be realistic here.

>>5741513
Keep in mind that what makes a character good or bad is not only its general percentage of win, but whether it has or not noticeable good/bad matchups.
I mean, you'd prefer to play a character that has 45% victory ratio against everyone than an above average ratio and two or three very bad matchups.

About your real question, I'm not experienced enough so don't take my answer too seriously, but it certainly feels that the game is not as balanced as MBAC. Hisou doesn't feel terrible either. Just play chars your feel comfortable with, the game is not to be taken too seriously in any case.

>>5741513
>>5741513

Well TBH, the game is balanced for the most part. You only might have some trouble winning as Hong and Cirno, and possibly the half ghost samurai if your enemy spams ranged attacks, but there's no "legendary" tier person. It's pretty balanced, but cirno and hong need to be buffed a little.

>>5741513
As long as you don't pick Meiling and don't play super tourneyfag modo, you'll be alright. If you're really worried about playing a weaker character, just play Yuyuko and derp your way through the game effortlessly.

>>5741513

Uh, bad characters in what sense?
Well, I guess the only one that supposedly has bad matchups all over the chart would be Meiling and maybe Cirno. But in low level play it doesn't really come out that much, I've even noticed that I often have easier time when I play Meiling than some others simply since the opponent can't keep up with the speed.

The thing with tier lists is that they are usually formed through matchups between experienced players and are not necessarily quite the same for starting/casual play.

>>5741440
still hosting

>>5741621

That's true. I just have a hard time keeping up with my friends in this game and I wanted to know a bit more about what I'm dealing with.

I'll probably work on playing Komachi or something next time I get the chance. I generally have fun with her when I'm not accidentally spamming her detonate move in a desperate attempt to crouching fierce.

>>5738479

Are you seriously advocating spending nearly half your goddamn card slots just so you can control the weather because otherwise probability will fuck you in the ass?

There is no excuse for a randomized draw system. It would greatly deepen the game's strategy if players could design their own draw orders

I just don't understand why this game, despite having such unique and interesting aspects such as its weather system and its card drawing system, is so eager to remove the player's control over it

>>5741696
>baaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

>>5741657
>friends

>>5741513

Realistically, there are three tiers

Bullshit tier: Utsuho
Needs help tier: Meiling, and to a lesser extent Alice and Cirno
Pretty well balanced tier: Everyone else

Utsuho is, bar none, the strongest character in this game

Meiling, though capable of winning, really has to work against far too many negative factors to pull it off. Her bullets are shit, yet have close to no advantages. Low spirit damage, not very helpful for disruption, not that great for oki, doomed in bullet fights, etc. They basically only exist to slightly broaden Meiling's attack range and help her combo slightly

Compared to Meiling, Alice and Cirno don't need many changes. Alice just suffers from being almost completely helpless and entirely too predictable in close range melee, but somewhat makes up for it with some of the best mid-range pokes in the game

Cirno, well, I don't play as her, but I notice she tends to have a tough time during matches on nicovideo. I dunno how much of her apparent weakness can be fessed up to player error, but, I do have to say her spellcards seem kinda shit in general

>>5741731


Realistically, there are three tiers

Bullshit tier: Engineer
Needs help tier: Soldier, and to a lesser extent Sniper and Scout

Pretty well balanced tier: Everyone else

Engineer is, bar none, the strongest character in this game

Soldier, though capable of winning, really has to work against far too many negative factors to pull it off. His rockets are shit, yet have close to no advantages. Low splash damage, not very helpful for disruption, not that great for t/king, doomed in long combat fights, etc. They basically only exist to slightly broaden Soldier's attack range and help his rockets slightly

Compared to Soldier, Sniper and Scout don't need many changes. Sniper just suffers from being almost completely helpless and entirely too predictable in close range melee, but somewhat makes up for it with some of the best mid-range arrows in the game

Scout, well, I don't play as him, but I notice he tends to have a tough time during matches on nicovideo. I dunno how much of his apparent weakness can be fessed up to player error, but, I do have to say his weapons seem kinda shit in general

>>5741731

Pretty much this. Though cirno just is pretty bad because of shit start up time on spell cards and not being able to move out of them(Unlike sakuya's spell where she summons the knives in a circle, cirno can't use the spell card and move in to combo).

What do you guys think of Alice? I'm a horrible player so I can't evaluate properly, but god she is so fucking hard to manage.

>>5741731
Utsuho is only bullshit tier if you are a bad player.
She is pretty bad in higher level fights. When people stop rushing and mashing like khorne's berzerkers.

>>5741780
If you're a horrible player, you're going to die a lot. actually, you're going to die always.
But if you get good with her, you'll just outspace, outbait, outeverything everyone. So she is good for advanced players.

>>5741782

Stop talking out of your ass. I watch nicovideos of tournament fights on a routine basis and I will tell you now, Utsuho has an absurdly high win percentage. Any tier chart will show it, and just a cursory view of 90% of the Utsuho players will show just how powerful she is. The only characters that can truly match her might are Yukari and Yuyuko, and that's only if they manage to get their corner pressure going. Even then, most of the time Utsuho can successfully just mash A out of it. It's disgusting

>>5741780

I main Alice. I still think she needs a buff or two to put her on par with the other characters, but as a whole she can hold her own, but ONLY if you understand how to use your dolls. Too many goddamn times I will watch videos of Alice players who have no fucking clue how to set up their dolls for proper 22BC zone control, don't know about fall-canceling their 2C and lose their pressure game because of it, and more mistakes related to overall doll control

If you want, I'll give you any advice I can. What issues do you have with her? What cards do you usually use?

>itt dumb leading blind
Less posts more hosts.

>>5742050

Sorry I like discussing the game.

>>5742059
Discussion or blanket statements with no supporting arguments. I only see the latter.

>>5742086

Are you new here? Have you somehow missed the numerous tournament charts and graphs clearly showing Utsuho's rise to glory ever since 1.10 came out?

Quit getting anus achy because I called your main what she is: absurdly strong

>>5742123
Cool doing exactly as I said, bro.
I hope you're just trolling.

Bumpan to counter summerfags being idiots.

>>5730561
Feels nice to have a handful of good games after such a while, The Idler.
That Cirno really isn't the same as last time's. It's less frustrating now that I've understood how her bullets work. Tho, I feel that most of her tools (i.e. ice charge) are from alt. skillcards, must be hard to sometimes play half of the match without them.
Youmu mirror is weird. Constantly going to sj jA feast / reversal party / rekka-mind-games-where-no-one-ever-wants-to-risk-to-lose was oddly repetitive but nevertheless fun.
I have a hard time telling if our presses, even with perfect execution (that is, not with my hands at least, and not in delay 6) are valid, because we both play very safely while defending, and don't try to poke that much. That and the fact that my corner press is not very effective, because most of the time you could get out without being hit, and that is bad. I hope there is (a lot of) room for improvement.

>>5730561
GGs P1P. I don't know which alt 623 I should use as Cirno against you, Icicle Sword is very punishable on block and I can't seem to find a chance to use it. It's a very powerful combo finisher, though. Icicle Lance seems more useful in general because it pretty much clears the screen, but usually by the time I've finished you're already at my face landing a nice combo.

It took my a while to get my game together with Youmu, I've been neglecting her a bit lately. That was a pretty poor show from me today with her, sorry about that.

By the way, that was a great timing you had there, I was just about to quit as well, I had a bit too many of your 3[A] to Obsessor "Slash of Eternity" yet kept falling for it over and over.

86.63.155.44:10800 EU

>>5742332
>I feel that most of her tools (i.e. ice charge) are from alt. skillcards, must be hard to sometimes play half of the match without them.
If I'd actually bother to learn to use them, they could make a difference, but right now it's exactly as you say. Hell, I almost never use her 236 or 22 alts either even though I level them up, although they're very good when used correctly. Right now most of my Cirno play is 5C spam, with the occasional Ice Charge to throw my opponent off-guard. Works surprisingly well though.

>>5742343
GGs.
Rehosting.

>>5742335
I understand your point about guard crushes. Having to react to it and determine whether it's a 3 or a 6 with a high netplay delay isn't my cup of tea.
When I'm concentrated enough to manage to react to it, I constantly stand up because I use to think it's an overhead, even if I was crouching at first.
If you can, use more of them. I desperately need training.

>>5742343
GGs idler, but why leave so quickly?

>>5742481
A random disconnect? There doesn't seem to be a problem on my end. Looks like someone else managed to join there, so I'll leave it here for now. GGs.

I'm starting to like Icicle Lance more and more. Eating through Utsuho's 5C fireball, alt. 22 Hell's Wave Motion Gun and even hitting you in a single shot, it's an incredible tool against projectile-heavy characters. I'll just need to remember to be careful with your laser.

84.249.245.151:10800 EU hosting

random tier

>>5742343
GGs.
...block.

>>5742373
GGs

>>5742608
GGs.

>>5742608

Ugh, ggs Herb, that was frustrating, there was no delay or anything but I couldn't do 66 or DD and even 623 seemed to be out of reach. Couldn't even dash -> block -_-'
I wonder if it's the keyboard, it's only 8 years old though, it should still work :/

85.23.163.36:10800 hosting EU, still learning Utsuho.

>>5743018
GGs

>>5743018

Apologies, Ragefrost, however it doesn't seem like our connection is very playable.

Rehosting, in the event that someone I'd get a better connection to might be looking.

99.141.112.70:10800 - US Central

>>5743018

Thanks for the games, The Idler!

Man, I really need to figure out something to keep you from just going "oh okay" and just charging right back in on me. Not to mention stop whiffing every single combo that would require 3a instead of 6a, urgh.

Hmm, either I need to limit you on every single combo, or figure out good anti-air keepaways. Same for ground. I just have no idea how to prevent 3a/66c from Cirno, yet.

At least it seems like 6c and throwing sun are 'good' against that icicles on the ground move you use to eat up 5c and wave motion gun. Unfortunately, wave motion gun was my primary "you are not coming at me from the air just like that" tool, so I'm slightly at a loss there.

>>5743550
GGs Mire.
Looks like using Icicle Lance instead of Icicle Sword was a good idea, It's really a lot easier when I don't need to dodge gigantic fireballs and worry about Hell Wave Cannon. This matchup seems really interesting, although it's also frustrating as hell.

>Man, I really need to figure out something to keep you from just going "oh okay" and just charging right back in on me.
A Cirno using Ice Charge is pretty hard to keep away, you'll be on defense with Utsuho most of the time.

>I just have no idea how to prevent 3a/66c from Cirno, yet.
Well, at least you can always punish a 66C on block. 3A, even if it looks similar, can be canceled into projectiles and specials, allowing me to do a 3A 5C alt 214, which you're better off blocking.

>At least it seems like 6c and throwing sun are 'good' against that icicles on the ground move you use to eat up 5c and wave motion gun.
Yeah, 6C is probably the best way to prevent it if you have the chance. Icicle Lance beats all of Utsuho's normal projectiles, despite it's looks. And yeah, Shooting Sun also works if you're in the correct range since it can't be canceled out by my bullets. Anything else will probably be eaten by Icicle Lance.

Also, damn that alt 214 Retro Atomic Model you keep using is annoying. The damage it does is small but it makes it really difficult for me to approach.

>>5743291

Rehosting. So bored, man.

76.29.15.231:10800
US Midwest

>>5743674

>A Cirno using Ice Charge is pretty hard to keep away, you'll be on defense with Utsuho most of the time.
This isn't really the problem. I don't get hit by Ice Charge unless I'm being dumb. I meant more like... if I don't limit with a combo, you airtech and fly right back at me and I'm not sure what to do to 'punish' this (aside from trying 3a), so it goes like I do a combo that doesn't limit -> you get pressure. I'm pretty sure this isn't how it should work, haha.

>Well, at least you can always punish a 66C on block. 3A, even if it looks similar, can be canceled into projectiles and specials, allowing me to do a 3A 5C alt 214, which you're better off blocking.
My main problem with 66c/3a is that I get too scared of those while running my strings, because they seem to go under a bunch of things and just plain hit me, so I get scared and abort pressure. Though all I can think of is 6a, at least for now. Maybe rocket dive? But that's an amazingly risky thing to just throw out (as I still keep demonstrating).

>>5744430
Well, I meant that besides being a great move to cancel bullets to and end combos with, Ice Charge also is a great move for quickly closing any distance between us and thus allowing me to usually continue my pressure, since it's relatively safe on block. Utsuho really can't compete with Cirno in movement, so you'll often find yourself defending. Although Cirno's melee is generally pretty bad against Utsuho, if I can keep you guessing whether I'll use 6A, 5C or perhaps 3A to 5C and some Ice Charges thrown in, I'll be relatively safe. I really need to work on my pressure more, though.

>>5744430
When people do an airtech, try to time your jA at the end of it. If they do airtech > front dash / fly / whatever, you get a free air combo. If they tech and block, you get a bit of aerial pressure. However if they delay their tech or you don't time your jA correctly, you will whiff and may have to block or sometimes be punished. If they don't tech at all, you recover from your jA before they touch the ground, and can continue your pressure.
So, just try to get the timing for the jA and get them at the moment they tech out of a no-limit combo. It's of course easier in the corner, and with moves that have a lot of active frames (Utsuho's j6A? But it's very risky on whiff). 3A is fine too if they keep flying onto it, but they should be able to be high enough not to get hit most of the time I guess.

>>5730561
rehosting

>>5744786

Most of the time I'm just holding 4 and seeing what you do instead of even trying to guess, actually. I'll guess once I have something to work with, though half the time I'm not even guessing very well. Another thing I need to work on.

>>5745019

Actually usually when he does it, it was after 3a 2c from midscreen, meaning that I can't really chase with a highjump and do a j.5a/j.6a, because they're sent to the other edge of the stage. Upon retrospect, I realise that what I should do is just plain move somewhere else, though. Most of the time, anyway, depending on what he does.

>>5744265
Good games even if the lag was a bit high.

>>5743291

Vampire here. Hosting again.

>>5745019
GGs, fun games.
My Suwako is so rusty, yet I can't stop laughing when using her. Don't be so mean to little frog girls.

Hi guys.
90.4.119.247:10800 EU (France)
Average-Good tier.
I host.


By the way, someone has a link to download the palette editor for soku 1.10 ? I tried to google it but every link was broken and the only one doesn't seem to work.

>>5745930
GGs, I can't find any way out of your blockstrings at all. Against others I just jump or poke randomly and it usually works, but it certainly didn't work here.

>>5746002
Can't connect.

>>5746076
Dammit.

Okay, I don't host, you wanna try ?

>>5746099
see >>5730561

Won't be playing for very long tho.

>>5746119

I thought I was barely good but it looks like I have still much to learn. GGs, that was really impressive.
Guess I need more practice, I can barely make decent combos...

>>5746119
GGs, I was going to quit too, time for bed.
You need to concentrate on improving your defence, a few directions:
- Try to ground tech once in a while. When you are knocked-down, hold D and forward or backward and you'll be able to escape, except if your opponent predicts it of course. If you never tech, I just have to stand here continuing to press. If you make me guess if you'll go left or right, or stay still, you have good odds of escaping the press.
- Poking is not the only option to counter a press. Super jumping is usually safer because it allows you to graze bullets. You can also border escape by pressing D and a direction twice while you are blocking, but super jumping is usually a good option overall.
- Teleportation isn't very useful with Sakuya. B bullets or 214B/C (quarter circle back) are better because they allow you to have some bullets to cover you and make an advantageous situation.

Are there any hosts still running?
Looking for a match...
Average-Good Tier (maybe...)

174.0.51.137:10800
Hostan Canadia

I usually tech, but it seems I lost my concentration.
I use teleport since the only other player I fight uses Okuu/Suika, but against fast players it obviously isn't effective. Okay, time to work on new decks.
Super jumping. I see. I'll work on that too.

Thanks for these precious tips.

Last month I forgot, this month it comes a day early.
Here's July's Tenco ( http://tenco.info/game/2/pov/1/type1/ ) average top ten ladder rating table. This is not a concrete tier list, it is only a representation of how Japanese players perform on the ladder using the characters. I got a new computer and a new spreadsheet program so it isn't as fancy or detailed as the old ones yet.

And here is the highest rating of each individual character stacked up beside each other for easy viewing. For the first time that I've seen Tenko sits atop the Tenco ladder.
Maybe she got tired of only taking punishment?

>>5746380

I am in awe...
Whelp, more practice for me...
Tally ho!

What tags could I use to search for good battles on Nico Nico?
By the way, is there any battle video you consider as a must see?

>>5746380
Good games Hiant! I swear random likes to give the same two characters over and over. Your Sakuya gave me the most trouble out of all your characters!

>>5746641
>>5746660
What happened in 1.10 that dropped Reimu?

>>5746708
東方非想天則 is the game.
東方非想天則ph
東方非想天則 ph
東方非想天則ex
東方非想天則 ex
Optionally remove 東方 from the above.
The Japanese rate themselves using a system based on stage difficulty. PH and EX are top.

>>5746660

I like how no one plays Reimu or Suwako (Hong is understandable though). Wasn't one of the big tourney winners a Suwako player? Maybe he won because no one knew how to deal with her..

>>5746686
Ah new to the game I see. If I may offer some advice, you'd do well by blocking a lot more of the stuff sent your way at close ranges, and grazing through bullets at far distances.

>>5746718
I love this game so much, I enjoy losing.
He He...
I am so used to the computer (who really lack pressure)
As for Dio...I mean Sakuya...She is my favorite character, beside Suanko and Undonge.
The bad part is that this is not my main game, so the decks are mostly unedited.

>>5746741
The number of players is constant.
It is mostly just poor performance. Being unpopular may result in fewer skilled players though. But that is guesswork.

Hosts?

>>5746736
What? No. Lunatic and Phantasm are above EX.

>>5746002

> By the way, someone has a link to download the
> palette editor for soku 1.10 ? I tried to google it
> but every link was broken and the only one doesn't
> seem to work.

Bump ?

>>5746860
http://coolier.sytes.net:8080/th_up4/index.php?id=2516

Keep in mind that this only works with th123.exe and not th123e.exe.

>>5747126

Doesn't work, even with Applocale / .Net Framework / everything else. I can create and save palettes, but it doesn't recognize the folder I put my palettes. In fact, nothing appears in the list, for every character.

But thanks.

>>5747269
Really? It works just fine for me.

>>5747334

Hisoutensoku folder : correct.
Custom Palette folder : correct.

Reload : doesn't do anything.

Oh, and if I create palettes for others characters than Reimu, save, and restart the application, when I load, these palettes are now Reimu's palettes.
Pic related, this is what happens when I make a new palette for Marisa, save, restart and load.

>>5747432
Remove your current palette editor folder.
Put the 緋色 弐 folder from http://coolier.sytes.net:8080/th_up4/index.php?id=2516 inside your th123 folder.
Run 緋色 弐.exe and direct it to your th123 folder.
Make new folder inside your 緋色 弐 folder called palette.
Make a palette for any character and save it in the palette folder.
Click on the ... button and direct it to the palette folder.
You should now see the name and directory of your palette in the list under your character's tab.
Highlight it and press space to set the palette.
Now, without closing 緋色 弐.exe run th123. The palette editor window should close once th123 starts.
When you go into Vs/practice mode, the palette you made should now be selectable along with the default palettes.
You'll have to run 緋色 弐.exe every time you want to use a custom palette in game.
The delete button unsets palettes.
When you add more palettes press the Reload button to make them appear in the list.

bump for hosts

bump

bumping for hosts

>>5734550
Rehostan, again for a short time

24.222.176.57

port default

pissing, 5 mins please

>>5750161
I don't think you have yours set up correctly, also region should be mentioned. Come join mine at >>5750153

moar hosts

>>5750355
>>5750153
Still hosting, playing myself gets predictable.

>>5750370
Fuck I suck at this game, ggz

>>5750153
Good games SolitaryDragon! I see you've taken a liking to Komachi! Those catfish... I think I have a mental blindspot to them as they always hit me. One thing you should know about the game is that every character has a Dial A combo, where just by mashing neutral A you can do a lot more damage when the opportunity exists. You also musn't be afraid to charge me at times, as I'm just as vulnerable to pressure as anyone else.

>>5750764

Best toohoo and mai waifu <3~

94.219.203.120:7555
EU

>>5750957
ggs dragon

anyone still hosting?

81.234.79.133:10800
Sweden.

>>5730561
rehosting

>>5751056

>>5751901
GGs.
Cirno's keep-away tools are really something I have a hard time coping with. That and full-screen safe or almost safe high priority physical attack make for a really hard approach.
I guess I'll stick more to Youmu until I find a correct way to start a press with Reisen. 66A 236B is obviously too easily countered, but I can't think of anything better.

>>5751901
GGs.
Cirno's keep-away tools are really something I have a hard time coping with. That and full-screen safe or almost safe high priority physical attacks make for a really hard approach.
I guess I'll stick more to Youmu until I find a correct way to start a press with Reisen. 66A 236B is obviously too easily countered, but I can't think of anything better.

>>5752544
GGs P1P. Sorry for playing Cirno only today, but I wanted to properly test out the advantages and disadvantages of both alt. 623s. They both clearly have their uses against different characters.

It's the first time I've tried that other alt 214 online, while it seems like a decent move for it's ridiculous speed, the versatility of Ice Charge really makes it pale in comparison, in my hands at least. Since 5C to Ice Charge is one of my main pressuring tools, I don't think there's any doubt about my choice for 214. That trap skill alt seemed pretty interesting, I should try it out sometime. Oh, and I really need to rethink my spell cards. Perfect Freeze as a combo finisher is a waste of cards, and I'll never be able to use it more properly. Sword Freezer is great but I try to use it as a reversal way too often, and the outcome of that is obvious.

99.141.112.70:10800 - US Central.

>>5752897
GGs. Sorry that I wasn't all that great. I really need to play against humans more often.

>>5753210

No problem. Good games.

>>5752897
GGs. Sorry I wasn't I that great. I really need to practice against humans more often.

>>5708505

aｓ_PrevIｏUＳＬY_mENｔＩOnｅｄ,_THＥｓe ＭｅｓＳSAGEs WＩlＬ ＣＯNｔinuｅ ＵｎtＩl ｙoｕ perｍＡＮeｎtｌｙ_ｓtｏP atＴａcKＩｎG ＡND ＦUＣKｉｎG WiTＨ WＷw.ａＮＯnｍoOoＯＴａｌｋ.Sｅ_(ＲEＭｏｖE the ＣｏＷ SOｕｎd), RＥmovE_AlＬ ＩＬLeｇAＬ_Cｌonｅｓ_ＯＦ_ｉT_Aｎｄ_lIEs_ａｂｏＵt_Ｉｔ AnＤ_ｄＯNＡｔe aｔ ｌＥaSt Ａ Miｌliｏn_ｕｓD ｔｏ_Syｓop ａＳ comＰＥｎｓａｔＩoｎ for THｅ MAｓSivＥ DaｍＡGＥ_yｏｕ_ＲＥＴAＲｄS ＨAVｅ CＡusｅｄ.
pa yvwlvppc s ge ma nkzflozsumc t qxgab gcd

>>5752897

Mm, rehosting.

>>5753464
GGs

>>5753676
Thanks for the games.

age

>>5752897

Hosting. Again.

>>5754935
Spectating

>>5754935
RAGE QUIT

94.219.203.120:7555
EU

Actually, I, the winner, quit. That game sucked the life out of me. Good game, other Remilia player.

>>5755003

I didn't even quit lol. He left. Rehosting.

>>5755009
stopped hosting?

>>5755006
ggs

>>5755006
whoa. ggs.

>>5755108
Playing Dimglow.

>>5755213
Tourneyfag!

>>5755335

thnx qt.

host

need some pro hosts in here

>>5756030
Might want to try irc, then.

Bumping for hosts, I am fairly new any advice after would be appritiated.

174.0.51.137:10800
Hostan Canadia

>>5757201

ggz dude, hope I wasn't as boring this time, what part of canada?

>>5757201
Good games again SolitaryDragon! Your Komachi has gained a lot of skill since we last played, I see you're using her j.2A and 5AAAAA (dial A) more often now. Do you happen to use a gamepad? It would help a lot for your execution without any practice. As for your playstyle, you can block or airblock in your approaches or when cornered. This game favours defensive play in my opinion, and a lot of it is knowing when to counter hit.

>>5757431
Alberta

>>5757532

Nova Scotia

Pic related, weeaboo atlantic canadian.

Bumpan for hosts

99.141.112.70:10800 - US Central.

>>5757951
Sadface.

Rehostan.

>>5758063
too far away

host

76.29.15.231:10800
Midwest

>>5758569
Good games despite the lag

host bampu

>>5758569
Sorry about that the thunderstorm outside knocked out my internet for a few minutes.

This game will never measure up to any of the real fighting games out there like Virtua Fighter, Guilty Gear, Melty Blood or Street Fighter. I'm sure you all have fun playing it, but while you guys play the fighting game equivalent of UNO, I'll be playing the real games that more like Poker. Your sorry ass game ain't worth a $0.20 TouHOE.

Why so angry, above poster? I can almost understand your point, but is there a reason for the hatred? Also, why 20 cents, isn't the usual expression 10 cents?

>>5758816
XD

I keep getting destroyed by Sakuya players, i'm using Marisa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJTd4cL121c

Can anybody tell me what i'm doing wrong here?

>>5757951

Rehosting.

>>5758569
Haha those were some great matches Duckator! It's good to play you again. My poor Rabbit couldn't break your guard. Pretty much every character of mine that's not Youmu can't break guard so I can only hope to flood the screen with attacks and hope they hit. That Sakuya of yours has absurd 623B/C feints, although I was suprised I could keep her in the corner with the low pokes.

>>5758882
Clearly you're not using projectiles enough

24.253.35.3:10800

West Coast
Haven't played for quite a while

>>5758569
Good games Rabbit. I wasn't sure if any of those Remi combos would work or not. Luckily for me, her spellcards combo from almost anything.
I should pay more attention to Myon when I fight your Youmu. I was getting hit by that 2C way too often.
>That Sakuya of yours has absurd 623B/C feints
Default 623B is certainly one of Sakuya's best skills since it makes unsafe moves safer. Although, if you bait it it can still be punished.

>>5759338
The Sakuya clock level might have a bit to do with it, as the clock face hides the position of Myon. This isn't why I always choose the level though, as I actually like the stage for its music.

Anyone feel like hostan?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTrHvDlNvW4

>>5759424

Sakuya lives!

I'll host, get on MSN silly.

>>5759424
I liked your video
Where did you get those things?

>>5759424
Lol at the comments

>>5759514
Let's cyber

hosting anyone?

>>5759424
hjones in that video? or do all canadians sound the same?

Hosting on : 24.196.25.187:10800

Lets see if my port forwarding works.

>>5759608
It's you Americans who sound funny

>>5759646
Is my patchouli annoying?

>>5759646
gah I feel like it should be easy to get around but I keep getting hit by that fire ring over and over like an idiot.

>>5759748
almost as annoying as my okuu. I was literally following the retard okuu player instructions haha.

New thread at
>>5760844

still

curse you auto sage