/jp/ - Otaku Culture

CONT * shit my ascii art isn't going to work.

The security system saw that the victim's entry code was entered a few seconds after the victim got up out of his desk to, presumably, get the door. About 15 seconds afterwards, the victim returns to his office. 20 seconds after that, the victim follows him in, carrying a paper cup which the murderer set down on the table infront of the the victim's desk. This paper cup came from the water cooler located in the main room, the police think the victim offered the murderer a refreshment, and matches with the amount of time the murderer would have spent in the main room.

The door will close itself slowly once opened, but no more than 30 seconds before it fully shuts (the hydrolics on the door is weak and the door itself is pretty light due to being an old century building). The police thought the murderer may have put something in the door jam to keep the door open, but there is nothing that could be easily accessed by the murderer was found, and the cleaning confirmed nothing was missing. The murderer MAY have put brought something for that purpose, the victim was situated where he would have seen the murderer doing something with the door, even when he returned to his office waiting for the murder. But the code was entered once and never again.

The open window in the main room, which is the main police theory of escape. If room in 5 stories high, with nothing that could obviously work as a hand-hold or means to allow a human to climb down. If the murderer was an acrobat, just maybe if he or she took it slowly, but what about witnesses on the busy street? There is some indication of damage on the bottom window sill which looks to be from something metallic. There is no indication of damage to the door or any other fixture of the suite.

The murderer was a witch

I'm gonna put on proud-dust and I'll resolve it.

----WINDOW-----WINDOW---
|...........|...OPEN...|
|.....*body.|..........|
|...........|..........|
|...........|..........|
|......................|
|......................|
-----------------DOOR---

Fuck.

What's the security camera field of view?

>entry code
Water from the cup is used to short the electronic lock and allow the murderer an easy exit.
Open window evaporates evidence.

>>5699530
The camera POV is on the wall beside the entrence to the office space, so it's cone of vision takes in most of the room, except it can't quite cover the entryway to the office section nor the corner of the far wall opposite the entryway. If the murdere were to move to the opposite wall into the other blind spot, he or she would have to cross the camera's field of view to do it.

Trauma Team had better shit than this in it's forensics part.

Beatrice uses magic to enter the room and kills the man.

Security cam is unreliable POV

When you enter the room to investigate, the window is still open. There is a stiff breeze that fairly chilly. Nothing you couldn't handle with a thick sweater is you weren't really skinny, and inspite of the image quality it didn't look like the murderer was poorly dressed for the weather, but not wearing any bulky coats either.

>>5699541
Unlikely, the victim was standing in an area of his office space that he would have seen anything the murderer tried to do with the door. Even though the victim wouldn't really be paying attention to the doorway, his peripheral vision should have directed him to look that way if a someone was making some sort of action that advanced with the door.

The murderer was actually a robot.
The robot jumped out the window and safely landed with his super robot jumping skills.

The murderer had a very strong will and used that power to will himself away from there.

WITHOUT LOVE IT CANNOT BE SEEN.

can you show us where the camera is on your drawing? I'm a bit confused.

You know, if you want to put a space before a character in a line, you can use fullwidth spaces. You're on /jp/, you should be able to do that.

It's magic, I don't have to explain shit.

If room in 5 stories high, with nothing that could obviously work as a hand-hold or means to allow a human to climb down. If the murderer was an acrobat, just maybe if he or she took it slowly, but what about witnesses on the busy street? There is some indication of damage on the bottom window sill which looks to be from something metallic. There is no indication of damage to the door or any other fixture of the suite.

Repeat it in red, "The street was busy and people would have been looking up at the side of the building to see if someone was scaling down the building, and there were no obvious camouflage such as window cleaning scaffolding"

There are no clues besides disbelief to indicated he did anything but what the police suspect, and therefore any other solution derived would violate the Decalogue and become the detective's supernatural intuition.

>>>/a/The_man_may_or_may_not_have_been_an_acrobat_but_was_able_to_use_a_rope_to_climb_down_
the_building_to_the_ground_or_the_next_floor_and_used_that_as_a_method_of_escape

When the murderer went to fill the paper cup, he planted a grappling hook with the rope on the window.

This is easy. The murderer obviously has DID and changed personalities to a personality that knows the code for the door.

>>5699718
http://boards.4chan.org/The_man_may_or_may_not_have_been_an_acrobat_but_was_able_to_use_a_rope_to_cl
imb_down_
the_building_to_the_ground_or_the_next_floor_and_used_that_as_a_method_of_escape

The victim was shot from the outside, the murderer is not the person who entered the room

>victim appeared to be familiar
>implying the police wouldn't simply check on any appointments he's had, phone calls he's gotten/made, witnesses which no doubt would be around in a building like this let alone that many floors up
>implying the police would need to solve any of this to find him.

If room in 5 stories high, with nothing that could obviously work as a hand-hold or means to allow a human to climb down. If the murderer was an acrobat, just maybe if he or she took it slowly, but what about witnesses on the busy street? There is some indication of damage on the bottom window sill which looks to be from something metallic. There is no indication of damage to the door or any other fixture of the suite.

Repeat it in red, "The street was busy and people would have been looking up at the side of the building to see if someone was scaling down the building, and there were no obvious camouflage such as window cleaning scaffolding"

There are no clues besides disbelief to indicated he did anything but what the police suspect, and therefore any other solution derived would violate the Decalogue and become the detective's supernatural intuition.

http://4chan.org/The_man_may_or_may_not_have_been_an_acrobat
http://4chan.org/but_was_able_to_use_a_rope_to_climb_down_the_building
http://4chan.org/to_the_ground_or_the_next_floor_and_used_that_as
http://4chan.org/a_method_of_escape

Obviously the murderer could make up loads of excuses as to why he could keep the door propped open with the victim's knowledge:
"A friend is going to arrive any minute and we're in a hurry, it would be a hassle to have to open the door again"
"I'm feeling really hot/cold - could I keep the door open to allow some cross-ventilation?"

Etc etc.
Alternatively, he knew the code.

The murderer said something to the victim, maybe something that he needs to fix the door and keep it open.

>>5699659

It may be possible to move underneath the camera to make it into the blind corner on the left if you crawled against the wall.

>About 15 seconds afterwards, the victim returns to his office. 20 seconds after that, the victim follows him in, carrying a paper cup which the murderer set down on the table infront of the the victim's desk.

Can you clarify this. The victim re-enters 15 seconds after he leaves the room and 20 seconds after that...? Did you mean the murderer followed him in?

Can we have a detective's proclamation for the camera?

This is not a closed room. Where is the security camera located, and what other limitations does it place?

http://4chan.org/A_pen_could_be_used_to_jam_the_door..

Confirm/deny something?

The killer would have left some sort of proof it was him, a witness would have seen him, etc.

His identity would be found fairly easily no matter if there was a camera or not.

After that, finding out where he is isn't that difficult.

>>5699824
By proof I mean on accident of course.

http://4chan.org/This_is_not_a_closed_room.An_infinite_number_of_method_X_could_be_proposed_to_jam_t
he_door_or_escape_from_the_window.

>>5699830
Blue ineffective. It's like saying "we know that he was murdered somehow, but we don't have to know the method"

The howdunnit is also the duty of the detective

>>5699860
Two specific possibilities have been proposed as an escape method. There is no red or or evidence that proves that they could not be done this way. This room is in no was a closed room.

Closed room's don't work in normal society - this is why mystery novels almost always take place in some secluded area.

There are always witnesses or the local police force with even BASIC stuff that can easily figure out who the killer is.

And yes, I'm gonna keep repeating myself until you realize how stupid this shit is and stop with this borderline-CYOA shit.

>>5699877
http://4chan.org/OP_won't_explain_anything
http://4chan.org/He_just_wants_to_commit_a_logic_error_and_troll us

>>5699892

They work anywhere as long as the author is willing to give us the necessary red text to prevent unreasonable possibilities.

>>5699906
unreasonable?

How are witnesses at any point in this mans time heading to the building - heading to the room - entering the room - or EVEN IN HIS ENTIRE LIFE knowing the man something unreasonable?

Actually, they said to begin with the victim seemed familiar and alright with him.

This means that SOMEBODY or some papework knows of this mans existence, and they would eventually have a list of suspects and get alibis for each one. Then check each alibi to make sure it's true. Then they would check for anything his body may have left - which is not something you can deny in red or any other umineko shit, human's do leave behind evidence no matter how careful they are.

Do you know how police do anything? Or do you think they just "well the criminal isn't here oh well closed case"?

Okay guys, from now on I'm going to use this trip so you can recognize the game master. Someone refresh me on how to post the red truth on 4chan again.

The building has a security guard but where he is situated it would be very easy for someone to sneak past him if he were of a mind. The fact that he didn't see anyone leaving around that time wouldn't be considered reliable enough to seal the entrance of the building.

The police also think he or she must have have used the window.

>>5699931
Also, there is no way in an area that isn't secluded witnesses wouldn't exist.

And disregarding all that there is still the fact that the video footage would give enough information to track him down once a list of possible suspects was made. You find a guy who is the height the man seemed, the same skin color, the same body type, the same hair (what you could see with the hat in the way if any), etc.

Then the alibis and investigations into those people.

It's retarded to try and make a closed room in an area with present-time investigative technology and WITNESSES.

ITT your average umineko readers

>>5699940
How the guy left isn't an issue for the case though, it would have no bearing on the case at all actually.

The guard only gives more proof for my point of PEOPLE SAW THE MAN. And from that you can easily get an identity.

The way he left the room has nothing to do with the investigation.

>>5699948
So let's say the guy is a serial killer, or kills for the thrill of it. No motive.

Sure he exists in some records somewhere, but since there is nothing connecting him with the victim, he is never found.

Bad end.

>>5699940
>>>/rs/When_I_speak_the_truth_I_will_use_red

>>5699963
Can't say that - the OP already said the victim knew the man. Also, the guard or someone else in or near the building (even walking on the street) would have seen this man. There's video so there is a way to ask people if they saw someone in these clothes or with this body build.

No matter what there's going to be a witness, especially if there is a guard who was only said to have 'possibly missed him on the way out' but not in. And again, OP said the victim was likely familiar at least a bit with the killer.

>The security system saw that the victim's entry code was entered a few seconds after the victim got up out of his desk to, presumably, get the door. About 15 seconds afterwards, the victim returns to his office. 20 seconds after that, the victim follows him in
The murderer put an object x between the door while the victim was walking back into his office.

Unless you're saying he walked backwards and was watching the murderer the whole time.

>>5699974
It was not confirmed that he knew the man. Anyways, assume for now that he is not in police custody, hence the reason they are looking for him. He is on the lam, and possibly in hiding, and while other officers are tracking down leads, you are asked to answer this specific problem to help the investigation.

>>5699964
Even trying to use red text is a fucking retarded idea. So something in red is an absolute truth huh? So all your readers can regard everything not in red as lies? Red text was only used by Ryukishi07 to patch the shitty plot holes in his work after he found out using unreliable narrators and filling his shitty mystery full of lies led to infinite suspicions for every single line of text he wrote.

Better start putting things in red, like the murder happening, the victim ever existing, the window being open, the building not being a figment of someone's imagination...

>>5699988
I've been basing this on him not being in custody.

The problem is he keeps talking about HOW DID HE GET OUT OF THE ROOM!??!?!

That is irrelevant though. What matters is who he is and where he may be - you can figure out the second part by finding out who he is and investigating that.

You can find out who he is by witness accounts of seeing someone even possibly looking like him nearby or in the building.

Even if they didn't know each other, somebody saw this man at some point in the vicinity of this building, or going in it, or while inside. Security guard, random pedestrian, other people doing whatever.

>>5699991
>>>/rs/Red_is_meant_to_establish_facts_and_to_ensure_the_reader
>>>/rs/understands_the_riddle_correctly_and_to_refute_flase_propositions
>>>/rs/It_is_equivalent_to_simply_stating_facts_and_noncircumstantial_evidence_clearly

>>5700000
Assume then, that they're hit a dead end. The man has successfully eluded capture and cut off the trail the police can follow to him at some point. And for some reason, finding the method of escape will give them their next lead.

>>5699991
Since we have no consistent story and just a single problem, that can be solved in dozens ways there's nothing wrong with author's truth. Take your shitty troll/butthurt elsewhere.

This thread is like umineko. It starts out with the mystery stuff, then red text appears and it just get sillier from there. Now there will be new characters every few posts.

>>5699974
He had on a hat, and some generic nondescript clothing. At any time there are hundreds of people walking around any area matching that description. Even if you could corral them all up, how would you connect a psychopath to the victim, or prove some kind of means and motive? Without any of these, he's walking free.

>>>/rs/OP_Is_wearing_women_underwear

>>5699991

Protip: Many celebrated mystery authors also go out of character in page footnotes to refute theories that readers may have.
Ryukishi's just incorporating that into the characters' side of the fourth wall.

>>5700024
I'd need more of a reason than it just magically will give them a lead. I can't see his method of escape helping at all or how witnesses would just magically be completely useless.

This is just cutting out too many things that realistically would be there and turning a very non-secluded area into one. If you'll run to "pretend police can't do their job for some reason" then this is just stupid and you should have had it happen on an island with only the two people involved on it.

I shouldn't have to assume the police have hit a dead end when it's pretty unlikely they did, let alone that 'finding out how he escaped' would help at all.

>>5700037

Lucky bastard.

>>5700046
Then just imagine you're an outside observer interested in finding out how he did it.

The murderer's fingerprints/DNA could be obtained from the cup.

>>5700046
Okay, you win. There is no use finding out how he escaped. Now get the fuck out of the thread so other people who give a shit can have fun.

>>5700033
How do you think police investigations are done?

And really "he had on a hat"? Um okay, sorry to inform you but a hat is not a face mask. And moreso, if he did have a face mask on, he likely would have been stopped by security or ...really anyone who doesn't like creepy fucks walking around.

Also, a hat when going to a lawyer's office? And 'nondescript clothing'? He'd be pretty obvious in his outfit and hat compared to people not involved in that building - and the hat would make him strange within it by today's standards, I can tell you that much.

>>5700062

Wow, so I put in the work to solve your case and it's UH YOU ARENT DOING IT HOW I WANT SO ITS NOT GOOD ENOUGH YOU'RE SHITTING IT UP

This is worse than Umineko.

Say it in red: The murderer did not alter the function of the door prior to enterring

>>5700071
Its the 1950's. Every man is wearing a black, gray or brown suit, and wearing a brimmed fedora. The camera is in black and white, and is shot from above so it is difficult to see his face through the shadows of the fedora.

>>5700079
You didn't put in any work besides the work you put into trolling every thread. You've said 10 times as much on why the proposition is stupid rather than actually discussing the riddle itself.

Say it in red - if you don't solve this the way I want you to solve it then you are shitposting and ruining my precious poorly thought out mystery that can easily get solved by your means but it's not MY way so it's not good enough even though it makes more sense and is more realistic.

>>5700097
If it were taking place in the 1950's it'd have to have been said in the OP. It wasn't. You're throwing in facts that weren't there or hinted at at all to begin with now which goes against one of those stupid rules.

>>5700104
Because the riddle is solvable by current criminal investigation techniques and technology, as well as simple things like witnesses and suspect investigation.

>>5700104
And again - finding out how the suspect got out would have no bearing on the case at all other than 'may as well figure it out'. It wouldn't change where the criminal is currently or if he murdered the victim or not. It has no relevance to the crime at all.

Why are you all replying to the blank posts?

First, for the sake of the reader's appreciation for the story, I'll flesh out some unnecessary details here:

1. The murderer may or may not have had an appointment. He may or may not have been a client, or someone related to a client. He may or may not have been an acquaintance, of which the victim had many. The obvious enemies have already been investigated, and the police drew a blank.

2. The police have no way of knowing who might have seen him or her on the street before or after committing the murder. At least there is no record of the same person on the parking garage camera. The police have checked with people in buildings on the street opposite, but no one could really claim to be looking at the victim's building at the time of the murder with certainty.

3. The police checked with the phone company to see if they could connect a call with the murderer, and came up with nothing.

Having drawn blanks all the way through their investigation, the police have approached you to help solve the most glaring mystery of the case -- how did the murder leave this suite?

>>5700105
So it takes place in prerevolutionary China, there is no implication at all about the date or location. It doesn't say it happened next door yesterday either.

>>5700121
>And again - finding out how the suspect got out would have no bearing on the case at all other than 'may as well figure it out'. It wouldn't change where the criminal is currently or if he murdered the victim or not. It has no relevance to the crime at all.
This is a closed room mystery as mentioned in the subject. Nobody ever asked you to catch the perpetrator, that's not the riddle.

>>5700131
http://4chan.org/The_man_may_or_may_not_have_been_an_acrobat
http://4chan.org/but_was_able_to_use_a_rope_to_climb_down_the_building
http://4chan.org/to_the_ground_or_the_next_floor_and_used_that_as
http://4chan.org/a_method_of_escape

http://4chan.org/A_pen_could_be_used_to_jam_the_door..

http://4chan.org/This_is_not_a_closed_room.An_infinite_number_of_method_X_could_be_proposed_to_jam_t
he_door_or_escape_from_the_window.

>>5700134
Which means it's to be assumed as PRESENT DAY PRESENT TIME HAHAHA or else it leaves too many loopholes to run away into.

>>5700138
Fine, sorry.

>>5700121
You have arrested the man, and he is claiming his alibi is that the room was a closed room and therefore he could not have done it. It is your job to show that the room was not a closed room so you can prosecute this murderer and send him to jail. The police are corrupt and inept.

Alright, OP. Let's try a classic.

The main area of the room wasn't covered by the camera. There is a possibility that the culprit hid there until someone came and discovered the lawyer's body. At that time, the door must have been opened, so there was a window for the culprit to slip out while the discoverer was distracted.

Gumshoe did it

>>5700153
No it doesn't. If its not stated, you can't assume the time, date and location at all. You are willing to assume some things that are convenient but not other things. This exact situation could have happened a decade ago, and therefore there is no logic in assuming this happened present day. The fact is, this is a fictional riddle, so it can take place in any number of fictional settings

>>5700131
Your descriptions are confusing at best, so just simply state if the following are true or not:

- The victim would have noticed if the murderer put something between the door to keep it open
- Witnesses on the street would have noticed if he came down to the street through the window and in that case he would have been caught already

If both are "maybe", then it's not a closed room and there's no reliable way to solve it with hard logic.

Was there anything about nobody else being involved? I don't feel like reading all this again, and if the suspect had a partner it would change a lot.

>>5700183
If you don't explain when that time is to begin with then it is forced to be assumed to be current unless the writing was done at a previous time (in which case the 'current' time would be when it was written). Learn the basics about writing and reading, especially for mysteries.

>>5700184
Exactly, "maybe" means it can be used as a possible method of escape. Two maybes also means there is no way to find out the exact method for sure.

>>5700196
>i like to pull curry out of my ass to prove my point

Now for the Red Truth. HOWEVER! This is a game which does not include magic, so my goal with using the Red Truth is just to deny things which could be done by the player if the player was allowed to interact with the scene and evidence himself, and also to limit the scope of the game so that people don't waste a lot of time going down paths that are meanigless. In the case of a Logic Error, the Game Master will immediately admit the error and shall not attempt to re-write the scenario. If a player can beat the closed room with a different truth, then the Game Master will immediately admit defeat.

Now, on to the red.

>>5699742
>Repeat it in red, "The street was busy and people would have been looking up at the side of the building to see if someone was scaling down the building, and there were no obvious camouflage such as window cleaning scaffolding"

>>>/rs/There were some people on the street bellow the victim's suite. There were some people in buildings across the street that may have been able to see the murderer if he attempted to exit via the window.

In short, it's possible that he's been seen, but at least the police weren't able to verify it.

Looks like you need some _ for the red, OP

>>5700251
>>>/rs/There_were_some_people_on_the_street_bellow_the_victim's_suite.

Understood.

http://4chan.org/Most_pople_do_not_look_straight_up..
http://4chan.org/Furthermore_it_is_proposed_that_he_may_have
http://4chan.org/escaped_to_another_room_instead_of_the_ground

>>>/rs/There_were_some_people_in_buildings_across_the_street_that_may_have_been_able_to_see
_the_murderer_if_he_attempted_to_exit_via_the_window.

Understood.

http://4chan.org/Although_they_MAY_have_seen_him_at_the_time_of_the_murder
http://4chan.org/Now_that_it_is_in_the_past_despite_the_possibility_of_seeing_him
http://4chan.org/they_did_not

http://4chan.org/The_man_may_or_may_not_have_been_an_acrobat
http://4chan.org/but_was_able_to_use_a_rope_to_climb_down_the_building
http://4chan.org/to_the_ground_or_the_next_floor_and_used_that_as
http://4chan.org/a_method_of_escape

>>>/rs/A_skilled_acrobat_or_similar_skilled_person_is_not_amongst_the_victims_known_people

>>5700251
>In short, it's possible that he's been seen, but at least the police weren't able to verify it.
WHAT

Solution: He fled through the window but nobody saw him.

Dun dun dunnnn

>>5700301
That red is pretty worthless as you already said the victim might not have known the person.

Also, what about there being someone working with the suspect without the victim knowing or being caught on camera?

>>5700301
>>>/rs/A_skilled_acrobat_or_similar_skilled_person_is_not_amongst_the_victims_known_people

http://4chan.org/The_man_was_unskilled_yet_was_able_to_sufficiently_use_a_grappling_hook_and_rope

>>>/rs/He_may_or_may_not_have_been_a_client,_or_someone_related_to_a_client._He_may_or_
may_not_have_been_an_acquaintance,_of_which_the_victim_had_many.

http://4chan.org/Or_the_man_was_not_known_to_him

>>5700322
...and even if somebody did, they didn't report it to the police.

>>5700322
This too.

>>5700164
If not this, then it's possible that the murderer and the person who discovered the body are the same person. After killing the victim, he moved off-camera and changed clothes. Then, after waiting a short while, he entered the door code from the inside to simulate finding the body.

Repeat the following in red:
"The security system contains a record of the door code being entered by the person who discovered the body."
"The security system indicates whether the code was entered from the inside or outside."

>RED stating may or may not have is useless. It is the same as saying (A or not-A), where not-A is everything that A does not cover, meaning that the potential situation could be anything, since anything can be included by the statement (A or not-A)

>>5700354
OP said you can ask for red to gather evidence about the crime scene, not that you can use it to magically pull info from nowhere.

>>5700374
The red then leaves methods of escape open which have already been proposed and not refuted. It is the job of the red side to refute blue theories.

The murderer brought a hanglider with him in a packed bag into the room and then unpacked it and flew out the window.

>>5700412

Why is this shit on /jp/?

>>5700147
http://4chan.org/A_pen_could_be_used_to_jam_the_door

>>>/rs/No_object_such_as_a_pen_ruler_or_similarly_sized_object_was_used_to_prop_the_door_op
en_at_least_when_the_murder_and_victim_were_in_different_parts_of_the_suite

While waiting for the murderer, the victim was stand at a shelf unit and moving putting papers on the table both of which are in easy view of the door -- although, going by camera footage the victim wasn't paying attention to the door per se, any activity in that direction should have drawn his attention through peripheral vision. That should have been obvious to the murderer as well. However, I will add this:

>>>/rs/Once_in_his_office_the_victim_was_not_aware_of_the_door_being_open_or_shut_because_t
he_door_swings_out_into_the_hall_when_opened

>>5699455
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zd lfqvytybc vyzkgqom n df trtx qblbdbyp

>>5700433
Because I'm reporting every post that isn't mine in the thread and people think "red and blue text" is a real way to talk or solve crimes.

>>5700435
If we have a plausible exit like the one I proposed in >>5700322 then it's quite simply not a closed room. There's no point in just guessing possible escape methods until we hit the one that you thought of.

And just as a reminder
>No accident must ever help the detective, nor must he ever have an unaccountable intuition which proves to be right.

>>5700435
I do not think you understand how a closed room works son

The culprit used a door wedge. The door not fully closing was the reason the victim turned around and showed his back to the culprit.

>If a player can beat the closed room with a different truth, then the Game Master will immediately admit defeat.
Did I win?

He killed him and left thought the room.

>Solution: He fled through the window but nobody saw him.

Okay let's get this out of the way. I will not deny this possibility, however, THIS IS NOT the witch's game, this is a straight up mystery. That means I'm not trying to trick you, but it also means simply throwing out x possibilities isn't enough to win. The police already do that. It has to be solid.

Exiting via the window is possible, but the detective must be able to make it solid -- how would the murderer accomplish this using the evidence available and do it to a sufficiently secure way that would cause a police investigation to turn up blank -- as it would appear to the murderer. Ie, the MURDERER must be able to reasonable come up with a solid escape method via the window, or door, or some other trick to hide-and-exit. Would the murderer climb out a window with people on the street just 5 stories bellow, ie, would it seem like a good plan to the murderer at the time? If so, the detective must be able to construct the plan thae murder came up with to make it doable.

>>5700412
There would have been evidence of really really tiny nylon fibers from the hang glider for this to be true.

Repeat it in red, "At the time of the murder the door was closed shut"

>>5700584
Maybe the murderer was stupid so didn't think it'd be a bad idea to go out the window. Most people who resort to murder typically aren't the most intelligent because they almost always get caught, so I wouldn't be surprised.

Rope would easily be easy to leave no evidence of (again assuming the police are too stupid to find very obvious stuff, which you said i had to do earlier), and again - he may have had a partner working so this opens up a bunch of possibilities given that people "may have not noticed" a second person could easily have put a high-rise ladder right up against the wall for him to climb down on. The reason the one window is damaged is because you said the building is old - so it could have easily been damaged at any time before.

And if he is a bear in a suit he could have just launched out the window without worrying as he'd be fine because he's a bear.

Say it in red: The murderer did not alter the function of the door prior to enterring

Gladly.

>>>/rs/The_door_was_not_altered_during_the_timeframe_of_the_murder

>>5700584
>this is a straight up mystery
With a literally open window. Cool mystery.

Since the possibility has been shown to exist, the murderer could have climbed down when nobody was around. The damage on the window came from a rope or a ladder or something that he had with him, or his accomplice who was waiting by the window with the equipment.

>>5700593
Last I remember we have to play pretend that police are completely incompetent and incapable of doing their jobs, because afterall all edgy kids think that.

>>5700623
But I just said that!

>>5700620

Confirm this for me, just so we're not wasting our time.

Repeat it: The Murderer did not know the code to the door.

>>5700629
Fuck, I'm slow.

Great minds clearly think alike.

>>5700584
It is impossible to make it solid if there exists some other potential method that can not be refuted. There is no detective rule that says the police are wrong.

>>5700599
>Repeat it in red, "At the time of the murder the door was closed shut"

I REFUSE.

But also note, as mentioned in scenario, the door does take a long time to shut fully as the closing mechanism is weak and the door is old as pretty light. But not more than 30 seconds from being opened all the way to being closed shut.

>>5700633
We totally solved this shit, bro.

>Since the possibility has been shown to exist, the murderer could have climbed down when nobody was around. The damage on the window came from a rope or a ladder or something that he had with him, or his accomplice who was waiting by the window with the equipment.

>>>/rs/There_were_people_who_may_be_able_to_witness_an_escape_via_the_window_at_all_times

>>5700696
"may" doesn't mean did.

So in the end we're right.

>>5700705
And also as said already - even if someone did, they 'may' have not told the police.

>>5700696
They might have but they didn't.

>>5700656
great closed room mystery...

the door was held open by the murderer while the victim was in his office, giving him at least 30 seconds to commit the murder and exit through the main door

>>5700656
So you mean he simply held the door open, no wedges or anything, and let go with it completely open, quickly killed the victim and fled within 30 seconds?

But I thought that "the victim was situated where he would have seen the murderer doing something with the door, even when he returned to his office waiting for the murder".

>>5700696
Great, more worthless red.

>>5700736
Closed room mystery with a twist - the door is actually open, and so is the window

>>5700747
The only closed room in the the world that you have multiple ways of leaving.

>>5700346
Repeat the following in red:
"The security system contains a record of the door code being entered by the person who discovered the body."
"The security system indicates whether the code was entered from the inside or outside."

>>>/rs/The_cleaning_lady_who_discovered_the_body_had_her_entry_code_recorded

>>>/rs/There_are_no_other_codes_entered_between_the_victim_and_cleaner

This is an older system so it does nothing but track codes which are entered, and can't determine between codes being entered from inside or from the outside. Also, there are only two terminals for entering the code, on the inside of the door and the outside of the door.

Well, OP, this is rapidly reaching It's close.

Reveal the mystery.

>>5700772
Why do you ignore my posts when I'm posting real replies?

Osaka and I have solved this.

Heh.

Did the culprit have accomplices?

The culprit prepared an adjacent room (above, below, or to the side) and transfered through adjacent windows to escape to their prepared room.

Let's see.

- Through the window when nobody was looking, aided by the accomplice who told him when it's safe to leave
- Through the door within 30 seconds
- Hiding inside, then leaving within 30 seconds when cleaning lady finds the body
- An accomplice kept the door open from outside

What else

can we get some basics?
Repeat:
There were no hidden passages/trapdoors.
There were 2 people in the room, the murderer and the victim.
The murderer and the victim were human.
The murderer didn't use unknown drugs/technology like a teleport.

>>5700833
He technically could have paid the cleaning lady off too.

Or the cleaning lady could have been the murderer wearing a coat and hat if she happens to be ugly and masculine enough.

And with how many exits this 'closed room' has, i wouldn't be surprised if there happens to be a large vent he could crawl through conveniently that was always uncovered, or maybe a giant hole in the wall.

>>5700852
The moral of the story is to never make something that "may or may not" be a closed room, you need fucking absolutes.

>>5700852
You know, this is starting to sound a lot like Curse of the Fatal Death.

>>5700850
There were no hidden passages/trapdoors.
There were 2 people in the room, the murderer and the victim.
The murderer and the victim were human.
The murderer didn't use unknown drugs/technology like a teleport.

>>>/rs/There_is_nothing_hidden_and_the_camera_footage_captured_all_people_involved

>>>/rs/The_cleaning_lady_is_uninvolved_and_any_accomplice_the_murderer_may_
>>>/rs/have_is_not_immediately_involved_in_the_murder_or_escape_from_the_room

Also, let's shut this down right here because your investigation revealed nowhere to hide a grown person from plain view:

>>>/rs/The_murderer_could_not_have_hidden_from_the_the_cleaning_lady

And oh yes, the cleaning lady didn't see anyone in or around the room in question. The only thing out of the ordinary from her perspective upon entering the room was being hit by a gust of air from the open window, but that would not be sufficient as a distraction to allow the murder to escape from plain sight undetected.

>>5700937
Still could have used rope, or with this logic of 'people may or may not have seen him' just set up a ladder before going into the room. Apparently the entire mystery is only a mystery due to every human being ignoring very obvious happenings and things like that.

I don't see why he couldn't just throw a ladder up there before going in if they wouldn't question other even more obvious things.

>>5700937
see
>>5700736
admit defeat

>>5700937
you are doing this wrong.

>>/rs/NO_ACCOMPLICE_ASSISTED_THE_MURDERS_ESCAPE

something like that you fool

>>5700937
Also, a ventilation shaft or something or even something as stupid as a missing wall isn't really "hidden" as everyone knows it's there. So that could still happen as well.

>>5700736
>>5700965

and this.

Everything you need is actually right in the scenario, and I dropped several hints already. Let's seal the window because it seems none of you could have constructed a plausible way out of it:

>>>/rs/The_murderer_did_not_escape_via_the_window.

And also:

>>>/rs/The_murderer_had_escaped_the_room_prior_to_the_cleaner_entering

The camera footage was altered to give the impression the murder had occured after the fact.

The door opening recorded that matches the camera's footage was manufactured by the culprit.

>>5701000
How is rope not plausible, are you too stupid to know how to use it?

He was acrobatic enough to hold himself above the door (via the part that comes out just a bit) and a light fixture.

Got down and ran out as the cleaning lady wasn't paying attention and the door wasn't done closing yet.

Like Leon does except he shoots niggers while doing it and doesn't need to hold anything.

>>5701006
From the fifth floor, without anyone noticing?

>>5701025
>The_murderer_could_not_have_hidden_from_the_the_cleaning_lady

>>5701028
He said people may or may not have seen it - and never said anything about if they lied or not to the police.

Again, this is his own shitty holes in his mystery. Technically based on "they may have noticed but the police were told nothing" that he gave us, it means he easily could have done anything extremely obvious without getting caught because "they may not have seen it happen and evne if they did, did not report it".

If he didn't escape out of the window, why is it open?

>>5701034
Then there's still what the other guy said about killing him within 30 seconds.

You could also simply push the door open again (while standing near it in a large coat) without the victim noticing so the 30 seconds would be extended.

>>5701040
Because it's summer.

this post has dual meaning

>>5700971
More than 30 seconds transpires in the window of time allotted to the murder. Entering, getting a cup of water from the cooler, going into the office, waiting for the opportunity to strike and then leaving took significantly longer than 30 seconds.

>>5701051
Sounds like something that could happen within 30 seconds to me unless they are moving in 10fps.

http://4chan.org/The_murderer_was_the_cleaning_lady_with_DID..

>>5701055
>About 15 seconds afterwards, the victim returns to his office. 20 seconds after that, the victim follows him in, carrying a paper cup which the murderer set down on the table infront of the the victim's desk.

The guy opened the door again after getting the water

Are you forgetting the shit you yourself wrote?

That means even if that did take longer than 30 seconds - that 30 seconds reset again once he got the fucking water.

>>5701051
>Entering, getting a cup of water from the cooler
Irrelevant, he was keeping the door open during that.
>going into the office, waiting for the opportunity to strike and then leaving
Tell me that THIS took longer than 30 seconds.

Repeat in red: The door closed fully after the murderer went in

>>5701066
Unless you are saying the "office" is a seperate ROOM from the open-window area due to a half-partition that doesn't actually make them seperate rooms.

If you're implying the image in >>5699529 is "two rooms" first off you are wrong and a moron.

Secondly, he only had to escape 'one room' under all these conditions - he simply stayed in the office and counts as being 'escaped' then.

the draft from the window kept the door open wololo

What the hell does "the door was not altered mean anyway"

>>5701085
It didn't turn into golden butterflies or an ocean of jello.

>>5701085
I guess he didn't do this.

He hid a screwdriver under his hat and unhinged the door :*)

Third impact occurred - he escaped by becoming one with everyone - so there is no more "he" just "us".

>>5701051
Repeat:
"The paper cup was still on the lawyer's desk when the murderer left the camera's field of view."
"There was water in the cup at that time."
"There was water in the cup when the murderer first came into view carrying it."

The murderer brought in Tool X that would allow him to cut open part of the wall/door in the camera's blind spot and rebuild it as if nothing ever happened from the other side.

The reason why I sealed the window was because "He used a rope!" isn't good enough. Why would anyone rappel down a building on a city street with people bellow -- without even anyone to help him? Just think about how ludicrous that is. If I intended that method, I would have provided more evidence than just "an open window with some damage on the bottom sill". I kept the possibility open because someone might be able to construct a method by which the murderer could escape via the window, thereby defeating my game with another truth. But that's won't happen any time soon it seems so instead of making my game boring with going over the same thing over and over, I'll just seal the window with the red truth.

>Im played uminekos now im mystery writer

>heres a closed room 4 u all
>the window is open
>the door isnt closed
>i dont know how to red text
>im usin tekniqs frum umineks so its a tru mystery
>if you figure out another way to solve this ill just tell you you're wrong or ignore your post

I wonder what the answer is because it's really nothing but listing all the possibilities until OP names what he had in mind. Closed rooms don't work when you have to rule out from TONS of different ways, man.

>>5701113
>Why would anyone rappel down a building on a city street with people bellow -- without even anyone to help him?
He just commited a murder and needed to escape

I would think that is reason enough

>>5701115
this

I'll just wait until OP reveals his "truth"

>>5701113
>If I intended to use this method
>If a player can beat the closed room with a different truth, then the Game Master will immediately admit defeat.

>>5701113
>If I intended to use this method
>If a player can beat the closed room with a different truth, then the Game Master will immediately admit defeat.
>>5701113
>If I intended to use this method
>If a player can beat the closed room with a different truth, then the Game Master will immediately admit defeat.
>>5701113
>If I intended to use this method
>If a player can beat the closed room with a different truth, then the Game Master will immediately admit defeat.
>>5701113
>If I intended to use this method
>If a player can beat the closed room with a different truth, then the Game Master will immediately admit defeat.

>(the hydrolics on the door is weak and the door itself is pretty light due to being an old century building)
The murderer forced the door open on his way out with Tool X or just brute force, therefore not needing to put the code in.

Anon did it. Mystery solved

>>5701123
Also it's not very difficult to just wait until there's nobody near so he can escape without being seen. You never specified just how long was it until the body was found. Maybe it was the next morning? He could have escaped at 4am or something.

Say it in red you incompetent fool:
"The culprit had no accomplices."

>>5701155
He already did.

>>5701073
>Repeat in red: The door closed fully after the murderer went in

I REFUSE.

>>5701113
>If I intended to use this method
>If a player can beat the closed room with a different truth, then the Game Master will immediately admit defeat.
>If I intended to use this method
>If a player can beat the closed room with a different truth, then the Game Master will immediately admit defeat.
>If I intended to use this method
>If a player can beat the closed room with a different truth, then the Game Master will immediately admit defeat.
>If I intended to use this method
>If a player can beat the closed room with a different truth, then the Game Master will immediately admit defeat.

>>5701174
http://4chan.org/He_left_before_the_door_closed..

>>5701192
That much has been obvious since >>5700435

OP wants the specific scenario he had in mind.

>>5701051
sigh, let me be more specific then...

>20 seconds after that, the victim follows him in
(I think you meant murderer)
Before going to the 'office', after getting the water and stuff, the murderer opened the door again getting at least 30 seconds to commit the murder

The guy just committed murder, he needs to get out. He rappels down the wall - and because you made it clear people didn't report anything and "may or may not have seen him" it's irrelevant if there are people there or not.

You said you'll admit defeat if this can be solved another way, it has been. Stop being such an infant and keep to what you said.

A remote control pidgeon flew in through the open window, blocked the camera and delivered small bombs to the murderer, which he used to escape through a secret passage in the ceiling. After the murderer left the room, he paid the cleaner to become an accomplice and set up the crime scene and alter the camera's footage.

>>5701081
>the draft from the window kept the door open wololo

.....well fuck me. You got it.

YOU. A FUCKING TRIPCODE, GOT IT.

>>5701245

>>5701245

>>5701245
zomg tripfags suxx anonymous is legun XD

>>5701219
also,
>About 15 seconds afterwards, the victim returns to his office.
>Once_in_his_office_the_victim_was_not_aware_of_the_door_being_open_or_shut_because_the_door_swin
gs_out_into_the_hall_when_opened

When you'll you admit defeat, Beato?

>>5701245
>implying there was a fucking hurricane, tsunami, and that this happened at 10,000 ft

>>5701245
You can't be fucking serious

So the victim would have noticed if there was a pen keeping the door open but not that the murderer fully opened the door to give himself 30 seconds, went and ran to the window, opened it (presumably forcibly), ran back to the door to make sure it didn't close, and then killed him.

wat

What the fuck is the point of having a combination lock on such a shit door

>>5701245
...Well, you did say it was a light door, but that light?

How about just quickly tying the door handle to the water cooler with something?

>>5701276
He also masturbated on the corps, but this was taken out of the police report due to being too disturbing and unrelated to the case.

BY THE WAY, THIS ALL ACTUALLY HAPPENED IN A BLIMP AT AROUND 10,000 FEET UP WHICH IS HOW THE WIND HAD THE FORCE TO KEEP A DOOR FROM CLOSING.

>>5701276
oh and took a mug of water while he was at it

You're not serious, right? ( ._.)

I thought of that too but laughed it off cos it's absurd

>>5701280
DETERRENT

because apparently even an ant could push this door open via pure brute force.

A FUCKING TRIPCODE MAN!

>>5701297
Suddenly all the talk about plausibility seems slightly ironic

OP

>Hi, I don't know what Umineko is or what a closed room is but youre all losers so I will paraphrase this murder scene from this book I read that has nothing to do with being solvable by the reader or closed rooms

In closing I would like to say that I'm glad I started drinking that beer when I did, I had a few good laughs thanks to this thread.

>>5701339
I don't drink, but I was furiously masturbating so I got the same effect.

The room was split into two parts (hence the use of the term "suite" in my scenario). The office, or office space, where the victim was killed, and the main room, which has the open window and water cooler.

The scenario follows:

1. Murder knocks on door, victim answers.
2. They speak briefly in the doorway, victim tells the murderer he can get some water.
3. Murderer opens window and pours his water.
4. With the door still open, the airflow from the window rushes out of the doorway, keeping it open. I mentioned multiple times the door is in an old building, and is light, and the closing mechanism is weak. I also brought up a gust of wind from the window twice.
5. To seal any further actions with the door, I had the victim stand in the office space where he can see the doorway via peripheral vision, and so it would be very unlikely for the murder to try something to the door physically during this time.
6. Returning to the office space, the murder waited for the victim to walk back to his desk, giving him the chance to strike.
7. The murderer then returned to the main room or section of the suite, where he damaged the bottom window sill using his house keys as a simple misdirection ploy to hopefully keep the police looking in the wrong direction. If he had re-opened the slow door and closed the window before exiting perhaps it would have been a perfectly closed room murder...but he just didn't have the nerve to try it without his misdirection ploy.

>>5701379
Nobody cares, it didn't make sense plus we gave other possibilities that made even more logical sense than this shit.

Stop pretending to be a writer, you're a fucking moron.

He used rope to climb out the window. The end.

Wind does not have enough force unless this was in the middle of a fucking hurricane, to keep the door open no matter how light it is as it's not made of paper.

>>5701379
He was very lucky the window wasn't locked

I'm 97% sure this comes from a detective show (not a mystery show) where you follow a detective solve a case and it is unsolvable for the viewer. I remember seeing this before, the guy recreates the scene, and then has the realization that the wind kept the door open. No wonder the mystery sucked so much. It wasn't even a closed room

>>5701410
Plus it was a shitty TV series which makes the level of writing fall by 300%.

About the air pressure...go open the windows in your house. Tell me what happens. If you have an apartment that has a nice wind tunnel through it you will get a pretty strong breeze, even though it's not windy outside.

Are you trying to tell me you never had doors slam shut? Or rattle? Just from open windows? The reason why I stated that the door swings open into the hall was to allow the air to flow in the correct direction to keep the door open. I stressed the lightness of the door and the weakness of the closing action just to underscore how easily effected this door would be from the gust of air going through it.

>>5701448
Thats with 0 hydraulics retard. Theoretically, is a door hinge is well lubed so that there is 0 friction, and minuscule amount of force will move the door. With hydraulics the wind must both counter the hydraulics and the friction. Weight has nothing to do with it except for momentum/inertia.

>>5701448
>air pressure

This isn't a pressurized room.

>>5701410
Its called a detective drama because its supposed to be dramatic, meaning the solutions are amazing and stupid.

And finally, I was completely upfront with you guys. No word games. No bullshit. I used the Red Truth as lightly as I could, because I wanted to leave the possibility of another truth winning the game. But I warned you it had to be solid. Go commit a murder, then climb down a building in broad daylight on a busy street. It doesn't make logical sense that any rational person would consider this, nor was there any evidence that such a feat could be accomplished (ie, lack of nylon fibers, the lack of pegs to hold the rope, etc).

>>5701495
We gave very believable reason for why he'd do something that stupid - especially thanks to your red truth which made it even more easily to do that without it being retardedly implausible.

Enjoy running away from what you said you'd do and never stepping down when a much more realistic and believable (and actually correct, as there woudlnt be enough air pressure in a normal room or house to keep a door open) solution.

>>5701495
>then climb down a building in broad daylight on a busy street
This is the first I'm hearing of any kind of time of day. I did suggest he'd stay inside and leave at 4am, since you didn't mention when the body was found.

>>5701495
You're retarded. First of all you said there was evidence of something metallic on the window. The man could be the pissed off neighbor on the floor right below because this lawyer has parties every thursday. He could have simply rappelled 10 feet to his own window and pretended like nothing happened.

>>5701495
Who the fuck looks at buildings in the middle of the day? No one.

>>5701495
>>5701448
>I know nothing about air pressure

>I throw in random information but only while giving the answers such as the time being 'broad daylight'

>>5701521
OP does it in his free time when he's not trying to pretend he knows how to write mysteries and thinks a 'closed room mystery' means 'the door was open the whole time'

Which again
>Closed room mystery
>The door never was closed
>my face

>>5701539
Remember the chapel

I did state in red that there would be people who could see him escaping via the window at ALL times.

Anyway. It's someone else's turn to be the territory lord and start a game.

>>5701495
Where're the clues that the building had a draft? "Stiff breezes" and "gusts of wind" don't cut it.

>>5701549
No, no more turns no more of this shit at all

You fuckers aren't novelists because you watched some shitty TV show and read Umineko. Holy fuck, just stop.

And you said they 'could see' but 'may or may not have seen'

Meaning he could easily go out the window.

>>5701549
You said may, thats a completely different meaning than would. May means there was a chance he would not be seen. What is this guy going to do? Run into the office every day until its windy enough for the door to stay open then shoot him?

>>5701563
Even someone who read Umineko would come up with better. This guy does not understand what a closed room is.

When he says "closed room", one of the first possibilities you should consider is that the door wasn't really closed.
Learn to think outside the box guys. Companies don't want tools who can only follow instructions. They want innovators.

Even if your closed room was a bit of a failure op you kept Shittybut out of the more decent threads for a good while, for that, i implore you greatly. Job well done.

>>5701575
I'm not playing the witch's game. I'm not trying to fool the player. Magic doesn't exist, so therefore, the closed room doesn't exist -- it's a trick.

>>5701596
When they said "Jurassic Park" they just meant a park in the middle of a city with dinosaurs in jeeps.

>>5701610
If you want to claim thats a truck, ill have to red truth you that it's actually a motorcycle just like OP would.

>>5701596
>When he says "closed room", one of the first possibilities you should consider is that the door wasn't really closed.
That's what I did, but it was much funnier to poke holes in the scenario.

>>5701600
Instead you are fooling yourself into believing you know what the fuck you're doing, you don't.

>>5701610
Did you shop that just for this thread?

>>5701653
>4chan filename
unlikely.

>>5701600
>Magic doesn't exist, so therefore, the closed room doesn't exist -- it's a trick.
Herpaderp. What he meant was that there must be no obvious ways out from it, like going out the window when people MAY OR MAY NOT see you. That's not a closed room, it just depends on the situation.

You must consider the situation as well, not leave things to fate. If it's even remotely possible to leave a closed room, it's busted, and it's your problem if you didn't think of it.

>>5701600
Closed room means an impossible murder. A closed room mystery means it appears to be a closed room at first look, but is not. Your scenario did not even look like a closed room, it simply presented an even more unlikely alternative method of escape.

>>5701665
I usually save things as random numbers unless I can think of a witty name or something.

But in this case I saw it in a thread before, I didn't do it.

>>5701600
He used rope and went out the window to the street where people MAY OR MAY NOT have seen him.

They didn't report it to the police if they did so who cares? It's more likely than MAGICAL WIND GUSTS AT 100 MPH

>>5701549
I would be willing to start my own game, but this takes quite a bit of planning. I can write up some crap in 5 minutes, but it won't be good.

>>5701772
>i can write up some crap in 5 minutes

We've seen how well that ended up going, let's not do that again.

>>5701719
Well here's your chance to put out a real mystery then. Go make a scenario.

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