/jp/ - Otaku Culture

This is really one of the few places where good Umineko discussions can be had. There are some sharp people here.

That having been said, you should at least post a topic.

so what are the guesses so far as to whom these people are?

blue: van dine? young kinzo? token solomon demon?
pink: obviously an ushiromiya. kinzo's first wife?

>>5695650
Haha, good Umineko discussion. It's always good at first and then:
-ShKanonfags get really angry that no one is mentioning it
-People tell ShKanonfags to explain it or fuck off
-ShKanonfags mention no explanation except one scene in Episode 6
-Shkanonfags throw Ad Hominems around

>>5695650
Half of discussion centers around ShKShit. How is that sharp?

>>5695732
The one in the pink is Philo Vance, a flamboyant investigator who often appeared in Van Dine's novels.

>>5695762
The girl is probably an Ushiromiya so Kinzo's first wife maybe and the fabulous guy could be her private investigator investigating on Kinzo fidelity with Beatrice.

>>5695755
Maybe because ShK is probably true.

>>5695732
It's Van Dine and Beatrice.

>>5695570
The golden brooch is there so it might be the young real Beatrice and her lackey.

>>5695793
Probably true? Under what pretense can you make that claim? If you want to claim it's "probably" true, then you must do the following:
-First and most importantly explain why Shanon has multiple personalities
-Explain why she pretends to be Kanon
-Explain why several people obviously must know but don't care
-Explain how it does not violate Dine's 11th
-Explain how it works for each twilight with motive for committing each murder
-Explain what the meta-scenes have to do with her (as they will obviously connect with the main culprit)

If you can not at least answer all of these conditions then it is not "probably" true. You are simply making a guess when many others could work.

>>5695793
Considering it makes no fucking sense, if it's true there's no need to read Umineko, or any of Ryu's shit past, present or future.

>>5695826
>ShkShitters explaining anything
That's a good one.

>>5695826
Since when do Dine's rules have anything to do with Umineko? I have no idea where you pulled that from.

>>5695835
You're kidding me right. I mean, really?

>>5695835
Someone hasn't seen the second OP.
>No Knox
>No Dine
>No Fair
Not to mention the new guy is obviously Wizard Hunting Wright, who has been coded into the game since episode 5 and is mentioned in the episode 5 tips.

I hope it's Asumu.

However, it may be the original Beatrice. If ShKannontrice is true, it makes sense.

Notice how the golden crest is at her collar (as Kanon) and at her leg (as Shannon). Plus, the golden brooch.

>>5695835
>Since when do Dine's rules have anything to do with Umineko?

Sup.

>>5695843
Who is Fair, by the way?

>>5695861
Probably some lesser known guy who will have rules in episode 8.

>>5695826
>>5695827
>First and most importantly explain why Shanon has multiple personalities
Love, form of escapism and etc
>Explain why she pretends to be Kanon
Form of escapism. George or someone said in the earlier episode that you might create another personality to become someone that you want to. We also have a narration saying Jessica created another personality herself at school to get away from the harsh life in Rokkenjima
-Explain why several people obviously must know but don't care
The same reason why they are hiding the Kinzo's death. This might be connected to this and the reason for it might be bigger than we thought.
>Explain how it does not violate Dine's 11th
No mention yet on how we must follow Dine's rules and if we can classify personality as another entity, Beatrice personality is not Servant class.

>Explain how it works for each twilight with motive for committing each murder
Not all murders are done by them. Ep3, Ep4 and especially Ep6 clearly hinted that personality are considered as a singular different entity irregardless of body.

>Explain what the meta-scenes have to do with her (as they will obviously connect with the main culprit)
The meta scene clearly show their identity conflict.
2years ago the golden brooch broke. Same time Kanon came into existence. Beatrice afraid of spider because of the inception by Shannon. Witches are not known to be afraid of spider and Beatrice clearly has the characteristic of some eastern culture influence.

>>5695884
>Love, form of escapism and etc
Be more specific. What is she escaping from and how does the Kanon personality help her escape.

>Same thing reworded
I meant why does she dress up as Kanon when convenient. It seems to me that she would have to be aware of her DID which doesn't make much sense.

>Same reason as Kinzo
Be more specific. What reason?

>No explanation of how each twilight is committed
You've proven nothing.

>Identity conflict
This explains some of the meta scenes but not all of them

You are being far too vague. I could come up with such vague explanations for any theory.

>>5695826
You're free to present your own theories that fit with the information given to us in episode 6.

Be weary of logic errors.

>>5695951
Hahaha. Please see my first post in this thread:
>>5695753

You are so fucking predictable. You can't explain anything but one scene with ShKanon so that's all you'll ever bring up. I wasn't the one pedaling a theory, you were. You owe me explanations, not the other way around.

>>5695926
Sure then, believe what you want to and if I know all the answers already we wouldn't be playing anymore.
As of now, the info for the murderers motives are too fragmented besides Battler sinned 6years ago, gold, Kinzo's death and killings based on the riddle.

I always laugh when denialfags cant even come up with a plausible alternative when all they do say is shkanon = shit when R07 shoved it down your brain in ep6.

Go read through the archive.
There is like 400+posts on this already and I yet to hear any theory that can break the closed room when we have multiple characters saying how personality can be counted as a separate entity.

Well it's not Asumu.

>>5695995
Just to add. This also apply for ep3 and ep4 solutions and for ep2 it is clearly Rosa doing.

>>5695861
Pen name for Erle Stanley Gardner.
He hasn't created any rules for mystery, so I don't think he will appear.

>>5695995
I'm not saying ShKanon is impossible. What I'm suggesting is that you have no plausible reason to say it's "probably" true. You can't explain it at all. You're just dancing around happily because you can't see another solution to a single problem without it. In your mind you've found the answer. You've stopped thinking because it's over and done with. Except it isn't. There are two episodes left. I'll laugh when Ryu07 pulls something interesting out and you shit yourself because the mystery was "already over"

>>5696037
It is not a single problem. Same thing was pulled for ep3 and ep4.
He will need to pull something interesting out of his hat and at the same time not retcon all his magic love duel scene without a good explanation.
A writer putting in scenes which doesnt hold any symbolism or metaphor and are just putting imaginary scenes to trick his readers, that is a sign of a shit writer. I will wait patiently to see him write his way out of this.

>>5696073
DID in a mystery novel is a sign of a bad writer.

>>5696079
Are you implying I was saying otherwise? Shkanon is shit but all evidences point to it being true.
Umineko stopped being good after ep3.

>>5695570
could it be Beatrice's and Kinzo's first child?

>>5696079
It's not DID, it's magic. You know, the stuff that's all over every single episode? Let's play a game of pretend?

Hello

>>5696073
I am pretty sure it might be connected with "when 100 people read, 50 will get what I mean and not even 20 will think beyond that - I am writing for those 20"

I think, that pulling an entire trollepisode to make fun of the naivite of ShKanonfags is perfectly reasonable, seeing how strongly you are attracted to it.

>>5696467
This is bullshit.

You know, I don't even know why this shit is being argued, you've got the answer in the same episode.
Ange an Hachijou CLEARLY states that 2 personalities growing into 1 bodies can be seen as 2 different persons.
Therefore 18 "persons" including Erika using Hachijou and Ange's definition.
And 17 HUMANS including Erika using a more common definition.

These are stuffs that are clearly stated in the game itself.

>>5696467
In conventional logic, one of those reds couldn't be said.

>>5696515
But Erika is the one who says human, Battler and Beato say person. This applies to the Japanese as well.

>>5696515
What is bullshit?

I'm saying Erika is a personality. The existence of Shkanon doesn't deny Erika.

>>5696539

THEN HOW THE FUCK CAN ERIKA SAY SHE IS HUMAN IN RED?

SHE EXISTS FUCKTARD

>>5696467
Being shot by the bullets of those guns deny you out of existence. It says this in the TIPS. Erika was already shot, bleeding and dying when she was able to say that red. In other words, the result wasn't Erika being denied out of existence. She would have been denied out of existence either way.

>>5696536
人間 used by Erika can also mean character.

>>5696539
Erika INCREASES the number of people by 1, and she doesn't exist prior to episode 4.
So either DID is a spontaneous disease and the Erika one just came for episode 5 or 6 or she is simply her own person.

18th human > Erika is already dead so she doesn't count as a person.

17 persons > Shkanon count for a person each.

>>5696515

You mixed them up. It's eighteen humans and seventeen people.

>>5696510
>how strongly you are attracted to it.
Exactly. It is because of the plot and writing in ep6 that everyone think shkanon is true except a few people still in denial.
Only a shit writer retcon what he wrote without a valid reason.

Multiple truths exist at the same time. Stop arguing over something like Shkanon.

The Erika not existing or being the personality of someone on the island thing is the one theory that is making lots of people stuck.

-Erika is just a 2-times character, her presence isn't needed at all to solve Umineko, so arguing about her existence or non-existence and building theories around her is stupid.

-Her presence is clearly defined by the red text of episode 5, and it basically leaves no room for anything.

>>5696671
she was someone who MAY have been at rokkenjima so that's why she could exist there but now it's been denied. no big deal. it's not what should be focused on.

>>5696683
That's what I mean.
People who argue about Erika existence don't understand how the world of Umineko works.

All these recent comparisons with D&D aren't for nothing.

>>5696515
>Ange an Hachijou CLEARLY states that 2 personalities growing into 1 bodies can be seen as 2 different persons.
Except they were talking about HOW DIFFERENT UPBRINGING CAN CREATE DIFFERENT PERSONALITY AND THEREFORE DIFFERENT PERSON, EVEN IF THE BODY IS THE SAME. Not about that dozen personalities can grow in a single body at the same time.

>>5696718
except they talk about two personalities being in one body, bud

>>5696718
Different upbringing and shits growing in one body, that's exactly what DID is, learn to read between the lines.
Nobody ever said that the personalities were created spontaneously.

>>5696722
No they aren't. You just remember that screencap out of context. They were talking about new Beatrice and how she's different, even if her body is the same.

>>5696732
That's where the "reading between the lines" comment come in you know.
It wasn't subtle at all.

>>5696740
Yeah, you read "between the lines" and "read literally" only when it's convenient for you.

>>5696751
More like when it's obvious.
There is a reason why everyone except you saw this as DID clues/foreshadowing/whatever.

>>5696760
"Everyone except you"?
Not him, but ShKanonfags are 2 or 3 guys samefagging over and over again. Everyone else isn't so retarded.

>>5696805
Your paranoia is showing.
The majority of people here can see ShKanon and accept it, whether they like it or not is pretty different though.

>>5696805

>but ShKanonfags are 2 or 3 guys samefagging over and over again. Everyone else isn't so retarded.

>I'm a fucking moron who doesn't understand ep6 when it's hitting me in the face with a bat

Erika challenging Battler and Beato to that last round was completely obviously her knowingly hitting the self destruct button. She knew that Battler and Beato would shoot down her red and annihilate her existence. When Erika announces herself as the 18th, she is laying out the "premise" of her character. The character of Furudo Erika was designed to be the detective. It was designed to be the visitor. The 18th person. That's her identity, it's who the role she was set up to play.

Except her character, and that identity, never actually existed in reality. It has nothing to do with whether Shkanon is true or not. Erika self-destructing stands on its own as the obvious implication of that last scene. Battler and Beato's counter didn't surprise her or anything. She knew exactly what was coming and why.

Shkannontricefags and their "reading comprehension" sure are annoying.
sure, you need a SUPERIOR INTELLECT to understand Shkannon, and not approving it means that you've not understood and are a retard.

>>5696828
>SUPERIOR INTELLECT
The point of episode 6 was that ShKanontrice doesn't need a superior intellect or whatever, R07 basically hit with you with a fucking SLEDGEHAMMER in episode 6.

It's not that the people who see ShKanon are intelligent, it's more like your head must be made of the hardest metal ever.

>>5696760
It's obvious if you don't want to see anything else besides that. Even Hanyuu says so.

>>5696828
Which is funny because it's one of the most nonsensical "theories" to date.

>>5696820
To put it another way, Erika saying "I'm the eighteenth human" in red would be very similar to Lucifer saying "I'm a servant of Beatrice" in red. It's true because that's the premise of the made-up character named "Lucifer".

It's probable Shkannon is true. Doesn't stop me trying to figure out other alternatives. "Settling" for one theory, however probable, isn't what I look for in this game.

Instead of thinking up idiotic theories just to bypass the red (shkanontrice, zero theory), how about theories that actually make sense with the narrative, and don't present a thousand more questions that they supposedly solve? Erika doesn't exist is a start. That actually makes sense. We've known something was up with her since her hax in episode 5, not to mention she didn't even exist in the first four games.

>>5696865
i don't think it's bad to keep looking for alternatives but the people saying it wasn't heavily implied are plain stupid

>>5696847
I'm sure most people don't want to see a retarded answer like this.
It's obvious because it's obvious.
Because you've got hours upon hours of Shannon and Kanon obvious game of pretend, of this duel whose symbolism is so fucking obvious it blows my mind.
And let's not even talk about the LET'S DIVIDE A SOUL AND SHARE of "Beatrice" which only make you remember the whole stuff about Shannon and Kanon who keep repeating again and again how they don't have a full soul and aren't humans.

Then you have stuffs like Kanon's body disappearing in thin air for the nth times, lots of clues pointing to Shannon being the Beatrice of 6 years ago.
Then you remember the whole OH BATTLER NEVER SAW SHANNON AND KANON TOGETHER IN EPISODE 1-4.

Then you remember some stuff a bit more subtle like the mirror that Shannon broke to "free" Beatrice (obvious symbolism here too), the whole brooch broken in 2, Kanon who keep saying that protecting Shannon is his job.

Yeah I wonder what all of this could mean.

>>5696879
Where did anyone said that it wasn't heavily implied?

>>5696888
>Let's take fantasy scenes at face value and read too far into metaphors! Ignore that it doesn't make sense! Umineko solved!

>>5696896
Fantasy scenes always have meaning.
And the "metaphors" are fucking obvious.
Good job ignoring everything that doesn't please you by the way.

>>5696896
you have no love

>>5696888
Except we were talking about the scene where Hanyuu and Ange discuss Beatrice and personalities.

>>5696903
>Good job ignoring everything that doesn't please you by the way.
Funny you say that when this is pretty much the core value of you ShKShitters. Ignore or twist all the red that doesn't make sense, ignore that everyone else on the island had to be retarded, ignore that Erika sees them together, ignore the third game that entirely disproves this, ignore the metaphor of the cheese and so on and so on.

>>5696910
and you say shkanon fags focus on a single scene? it was blatant all over ep 6

>>5696903
Ep3 magic fight. Ep4 prison break.

Why are people mentioning Dine's rules when discussing the big wedding episode?

>>5696878
Don't bother, finding the culprit is not important in umineko since a long time, for some people.
They are just saying "goes insane and kills everyone". why? who cares.

Nice work starting another shitstorm, fags. Though it was probably your intention in the first place.

>>5696922
Because they are talking about ep7, not 6, even if ep6 is really intrusive

>>5696915
>Ep3 magic fight
Which fights?
Beatrice vs Virgillia? Sayo kiling Kumasawa aka her teacher.

Eva-Beatrice killing people? Eva-Beatrice most likely symbolize greed or something close to it, rest is obvious.
Beatrice = twisted love
Eva-Beatrice = twisted greed

Episode 4 is a clusterfuck, but the VHS of Kinzo probably had something to do with it.

>>5696913
>twist all the red that doesn't make sense
The red make sense if you follow R07's definitions of some term, it's a cheap move though

>ignore that everyone else on the island had to be retarded
I don't like it as well, but blame R07 and not me.

>ignore that Erika sees them together
Unreliable POV, clearly stated as well. Remember when Battler saw Kinzo and Erika talked in red?

>ignore the third game that entirely disproves
Talking about the times all the bodies were separated very far from each other?
Is it your first mystery?

>>5696938
EVA, greed?
Please, anon, try to remember the game a little.
If it was something it would be pride, and I'm not it's not that neither.
But greed... no. She don't want to become a witch to have a loooot of money. Don't forget every flasjback with eva's childhood.

>>5696888
Summed up quite well.

>>5696951
Eva =/= Eva-Beatrice.
Eva didn't kill anyone except Battler at the end.

>ignore that Erika sees them together

this just don't work.
Well, it should work, but they don't care and are just saying "lulz Erika is a retard".

>>5696938
By the way, if you say that skannontrice was the killer in ep3 either, then how do you explain the existence of Evatrice, as a different witch? It must have some meaning with all these metaphors, right?

>>5696957
I don't care about this, I know it, but these flashbacks are here for a reason. And they would be perfect to illustrate te true nature of what EVA represents.

>>5696959
Remember when Jessica, George, Kanon, Shannon and Beatrice killed people in episode 6?
NEITHER DO I.

>>5696961
The EVA withing Eva wasn't twisted yet, it was basically the part of her who thrived to become the best, to trump over her siblings.
Eva-Beatrice is this emotion that became twisted.
Greed may be summing it up a bit too much I guess.

>>5696962
Ah? So all of these VALUABLE METAPHORS AND MEANINGFUL MAGIC SCENES are actually bullshit? How surprising.

>>5696962
except that this was clearly related to the "old Beatrice" which represents love.

>>5696972
No, fantasy scenes are never bullshit.
But the representation in the fantasy side and the mystery side always have to mean something.
The 2 tales are valid, that's the whole point of Umineko.

Erika killing them when they are faking their deaths is valid.
Them being killed by George, Kanon, Shannon, Beatrice and Jessica also mean something and is important to the whole story.

>>5696982
Those scenes don't mean all that much besides giving some backstory to some of the "victims" and some of the "perpetrators". Otherwise it was just a way to die the duel into the game.

>>5696972
It was even confirmed in Ep6 that magic has can only grant what is humanly possible.
The scenes all represent things.

>>5696992
These scenes shows the truth of Beatrice, that's the whole point.
Basically:
fantasy scenes = truth of Beatrice's heart
mystery scenes = truth of the real world.

ShKanon is obvious! I have no explanation for why multiple personalities exist and I'm just going to ignore all of the contradictions it causes, but it's obvious! You're fucking retarded if you don't accept DID in a mystery novel. Dine's 11th? Who cares about that. Stop being retarded and accept the facts.

>>5696982
So I'm asking you, what the existence of Evatrice in ep3 means, if the killer is still the same?

>>5697016
Except is not DID. Did you pay no attention to the explanation about furniture?

>>5697017
Probably something like THE PARENTS WERE TOO GREEDY AND DIED DUE TO THIS.
Rosa who is an accomplice realized that Eva knew about the gold and wasn't happy about it.
She went to meet Beatrice and asked her to kill Eva.
Beatrice who respect the whole "who find the gold will be saved" since she keeps her promise doesn't want to, Rosa gets angry, Beatrice kills her.
Then she kills Maria in a merciful way.

Rest is more of the same.

>>5697026
How is ShKanon not DID? You are a retard if you think having multiple personalities is not DID.

>>5697017
As said, Eva-Beatrice represents her indomitable desire to be the best and trump over her siblings.
It's her pent up feelings/emotions/desires all taken to the extreme.

That's Eva-Beatrice herself, what's important after that is the meaning behind the magic she creates, not what she herself mean.

>>5697018
Yeah, shkannon is SO subtle. More like mountain on the sandy beach.

God, you people are retarded. Ryu wont give straight answers, I can just tell that even after the very last episode you will still be twisting everything and calling everyone a retard because they accept the truth that was 90% implied.

Umineko isnt about tricking the reader now, its about giving out the truth without just spelling it out. What you are doing is like denying the brain parasites in Higurashi because you didnt like it.

Shkanon is confirmed, deal with it. But it is NOT the culprit and it does NOT solve everything. It barely solves anything. Stop being such faggots with your Shkanon war, both sides are being idiots. Its like autists fighting retards.

>>5697034
You're retarded if you didn't pay attention to the explanation of furniture.

>>5697041
You are so stupid it hurts.

>>5697039
..but there were no brain parasites in higurashi

>>5697044
You're talking about yourself.

>>5697038
That's because Ryukishi fails as a writer.

>>5697034
Then by the same token magic is schizophrenia?

>>5697048
Brain illness or parasite is the same fucking thing you know.
It's mysterious plot device illness x.

>>5697030
>Beatrice who respect the whole "who find the gold will be saved"
Except she says "no more people will die" and not just "whoever finds the gold". And she killed several people even before the gold finding.

>>5697030
>>5697037
Why's EVAtrice killing? Why not just keep with Beatrice?

>>5697048
The grandfather in Higurashi who worked so hard on his brain parasite thesis represents the ShkShitter. They may be testable since they're so retarded, but they work so hard at it, so you have to show them some sympathy. Doesn't change that they're wrong though.

pic related is erika's other personality

I'll be so happy if /jp/ understand one day that Shkannon is not a DID but only bullshit.

>>5697081
People realize that the whole DID found in Umineko is bullshit.
But it's bullshit that is also the answer Ryukishi made for this game, which is why people have to talk about it.

>>5697061
Like >>5697055 said, brain illness or parasite or whatever is the same damn thing as far as it matters to the mystery. You're just showing how retarded you are.

Also, you're the only person who refers to it as "ShkShitter". Dude its like one 4th of the retarded posts are yours. Just quit it and think of the mystery instead of wasting time denying what the author shoves down your throat. You might as well just not read it if you dont like it. Or just keep at it, I'll enjoy the delicious butthurt tears when its all over.

That's when people realize that Umineko is pure shit.

The main point here is that ShKannon is not mysterious plot device illness x, the mechanism has been fairly extensively explained and we can reason about this with normal rules. Name trickery isn't illegal as the subject has been broached several times.

>>5697061
He was only sympathetic because he humbly presented his thesis, as opposed to Shkanonfags who say "THIS IS THE TRUTH AND YOU BETTER LIKE IT, OTHERWISE YOU FAIL READING COMPREHENSION RETARD"

>>5696938
>Eva-Beatrice = twisted greed
Really?
It described the black heart of Kasumi, Eva and Rosa. Not sure if twisted greed is the right term . This anon here understand what R07 is trying to tell us but R07's solution and presentation of this so called mystery is still shit though. Remember at the end of ep6, when Lambda was saying how this will alienate his readers? Yeah she is talking about how ridiculous and cop out DID is..
You faggots need holding on to your denial and wake up to this reality.

Also you guys should realize how red text works.
Erika said she is the 18th human.
It is red because it is true. She just count kanon and shannon separately.
17people is also true because Beato count them as 1single human.

This is the magic of red text. You put out a statement and as long as you can arrived at the statement it will be red.
Just remember how Battler get into the logic error. He made a red statement that wasnt possible until Beato helped him. The logic for the last red statement is something like this.

>>5697094
We can only reason it out because it helps get around red text. If red text lead us to believe brain parasites were the answer we would have retards trying to justify it here just like ShKanon.

>>5697088
>>the answer
I like how people are taking what they think for the ultimate answer. Seriously.

In any case it don't change the fact that Shkannon isn't a DID.

>>5697105
>Shkannon isn't a DID.
3 personalities that are as different as the shy clumsy maid, the shota buttler and the witch, each with their likes and dislikes
These personalities fight, take over each other and die.

If it's not DID, what it is?

>>5697105
It is not the ultimate answer.
It is the "key" to finding the true mystery.
Read R07's interview.

>>5697112
You should really learn about what a DID is.
Seriously. You look retarded here. Don't forget that to be useful in the story, Shkannon/DID needs a lot of things. Which are not part of a DID.

>>5697112
It's magic. Which is an Umineko technical term for a game of pretend. AKA a two-timing cross-dresser.

>>5697113
I think I've read these interview before you.
And Ryukishi was saying that nobody took this key and put it into ep 1-4.
Something Shkannonfags are doing since a LONG, LONG, LONG time ago.
So here, his interviews are a problem for this theory.

>>5697118
>>5697115
Except that Shannon isn't doing this consciously, which is where DID come from.
Shannon isn't just a whore who can't choose between lezzing out with her best friend, fucking the fatass or try to woo her first love.
Each personality really love the person they chose, that's the whole point.

I guess you can call it fictional DID or whatever, anyways it's not just crossdressing.

>>5697133
>>Except that Shannon isn't doing this consciously, which is where DID come from.

... you really are not thinking about how Shkannon is supposed to work,in fact.
Shkannon is not only the love trial of ep6.But apparently you don't care about this, so I will not even bother.

God I'm really going to love it when episode 7 will be released.
So much tears everywhere, Umineko may fail as a story but these tears will be glorious.

>>5697124
Why are you still in denial? Theory has been posted numerous time.
Ep1 - Shannon corpse was never confirmed and Hideyoshi was definitely hiding it.
Ep2 - The episode where Rosa take center stage. You can treat this episode as the episode where shkanon was not needed.
Ep3 - The episode where Kanon take centrestage at the end. Moving a blink Jessica around then killing Nanjo.
Ep4 - Do I even need to explain this episode? Rebooting siesta and slowing down the killer rabbits? This mean they have at least some control toward the killers and then "I am here right now and I will kill you BATTLER"

We are just missing a solid motives and frankly speaking none of the alternative theory has enough SOLID WHY anyway because of insufficient information.

>>5697124
Actually he implied some people had used that key, just not many. I think the important thing is nobody used the key to properly find the truth. They may have tried to apply it, but they didn't do it properly to uncover all the secrets.

I'm glad we all agree that Umineko is bullshit.

>>5697154
Whatever makes you feel warm inside, bro.

Ep1
>"You're right. When Maria starts talking about witches, she changes. ...Battler-kun, you also saw it down by the beach yesterday, right?"
>"You mean that scorpion keyholder? ...No, I don't mean like when her feelings were hurt, I'm talking about when she looked like she had a dual personality."

>it was the first time I'd seen it so it really shocked me...
>"So what is that? Does Maria have a dual personality or something? Or are you saying that her spiritual sense really is that strong, and she's being possessed by it?"
>"...No, I don't think it's that. Haven't you ever experienced it? When you were small, did you have someone other than yourself who you wanted to be?"
>Right when humans are born, no one has any individuality,
>Even so, when they reach their growth period, their sense of self starts to be born, and they start to gain a sense of individuality. They want to be different from other people.

>"The whole point of the growing period is that people try to separate themselves from being a kid. It's the same impulse as a chick trying to crack the shell of their egg. Do you know what the difference between a child and an adult is?"
>"Age? Or is it the condition of their body?"
>"No, it's experience. Adults can look down on children because children have very little life experience. The reason they snort and look down on children whenever they say anything is because children don't know anything about the world."

>"Well, individual personalities can also be negative, right? Like when everyone in the class is studying hard, and I'm just slacking off, it sticks out."

>"......So Maria having so much interest in the occult isn't that rare among girls her age?"
>...Even if you accept that, ...I wonder if it explains that creepy dual personality thing...

>>5697170
Are you suggesting anyone didn't remember that? I think the point of that monologue was to show that someone could act differently in different situations but still have the same overall personality. That's actually against the idea of DID.

>>5697170
George sure loves his eggshell analogy.

>>5697170
>"You see it all the time in manga and anime right? It's kinda like that. Like memories from antiquity are revived. Like someone's possessed by the soul of the great something, or whatever."
>"Ah, and also like a sleeping gene gets awakened, or maybe a sealed power or memory returns. There's a lot of that. For some reason, those kinds of things are really popular at that age. ...Why's that?"
>"All of those examples you've just mentioned are illusions that children can add to their knowledge and experience immediately. If a nine year old girl says that she has a thousand year old witch possessing her, it's because by saying that, she gains a 1009 year old identity."


>"Furthermore, in their desire to separate themselves from being kids, they always project an image of their ideal imagination, and it's not rare for the image of their desire to become an alternate personality.

>".........So, in other words, I'm changing my character for different situations. ......Are you trying to say that having multiple personalities is actually really common?"

>"So let's sum this all up. ...Girls of about Maria's age, even if they show a creepy second personality like she did a minute ago, you're saying that's not such a rare thing...?"
>"If you bring it all together simply, that's what it means. ...Identity is an important thing used to build up one's sense of self. If you make fun of that, it could actually cause children to go back into their shell. So it's important to go along with them to some degree. ...Although whether that is accepted is determined by the broad-mindedness of the parent."

>.........So, I wonder if Rosa oba-san also knew much about Maria's dual personality."

>...And since she wanted to be different from herself, young as she was, she was switching between her normal personality and the personality of her ideal, a witch.

culprit, who dunit?
crime, how dunit?
motive, why dunit?

shkanonfags go back through the tale and find those, you have the how dunit, find the rest.

>>5697176
>So it's important to go along with them to some degree. ...Although whether that is accepted is determined by the broad-mindedness of the parent."
>important to go along

So everyone is playing along with it besides Battler?

>>5697176
>Just like usual, Maria was acting nonchalantly, immersed in the TV and laughing 'uu-uu- kya kya' just like any girl her age.
>......But on the inside, another personality, that of the ideal witch that she respected and blindly accepted, was sleeping.

>"...I was Kinzo-san's friend for a long time, ......but I never knew about more than half of him. ...I believe that two Kinzos existed, a wise one...and one trapped by some madness... .........I never understood anything about him..."
>"...Especially when it came to Beatrice-sama, it would seem like his personality changed..."

Ep 3
>"......Right now, ya really are a child! ...A personality that Eva should have graduated from! That isn't Eva. It's a different human!!"
>"No, umm, .........th, that's right! What about multiple personalities...?! Just like you were originally another personality of Eva oba-san's, ......let's say Jessica had another, witch-like personality, which took the name of 'someone other than Jessica' and killed Doctor Nanjo...!!"

Ep4
>It probably showed the personality called Maria die, and be reborn as the evil witch personality MARIA.

>Eva oba-san certainly had been a person who highly treasured her family.
>The root of her twisted personality had been nothing more than the sadness of losing her beloved husband and son.

>......Onee-chan's diary began to show a clear change." A diary is a mirror that reflects one's heart as it is.
>It probably showed the personality called Maria die, and be reborn as the evil witch personality MARIA.

Ep5
>The now-deceased elders who knew Kinzo at the time had whispered to each other that Kinzo must have bumped his head on the battlefield and returned with a different personality...

Ryukishi sure likes to bring up all these cases with personalities, the theme keeps popping up again and again and again, and these are just some quotes.
He does seem to repeat it an awful lot.

Umineko may be shit, but at least one part of it isn't.

The music.

>"......Right now, ya really are a child! ...A personality that Eva should have graduated from! That isn't Eva. It's a different human!!"
That's an important one. "Human" is being treated as the alternate personality rather than "person". Fits with Erika's red

Too much greentext friend.
You should have greentexted the episopdes and been satisfied with quotation marks.

>>5697197
The green text isn't really hard to read.

>"The whole point of the growing period is that people try to separate themselves from being a kid. It's the same impulse as a chick trying to crack the shell of their egg. Do you know what the difference between a child and an adult is?"
Wasn't Battler's Beatrice referred to as a chick in episode 6?

>>5697204
No.

>>5697194
>"......Right now, ya really are a child! ...A personality that Eva should have graduated from! That isn't Eva. It's a different human!!"
Someone check if this 'human' kanji is the same one Erika used.

>>5697144
THAT'S why Shkannonfags are ANNOYINGS.
HERE, I'm not even in DENIAL. I don't even care about your fu**ing theory, in fact, it's a theory like any other, so why not, but I'll not forget other possibilities because of this.

But HERE. I am saying that the key Ryukishi was talking about was NOT YET used in ep 1-4, and yes, just like you proved it right now, it is NOT the case with Shkannontrice from the very beginning. PERIOD.
Seriously, I've nothing against answer which contradict me, but here, it just look like you didn't even read what I was saying.
I don't care about this Shkannon bullshit here, it just don't fit with the "key" Ryukishi was talking about in this interview.
>>5697145
Even if Shkannon is true, it will not uncover every secrets, in every case. Shkannon is not some magical device which can explain everything, at all, except if you are going for the"lol crazy" answer.

Also yes, to quote him

>>However, it looks as though very few people have actually taken that key, returned to the previous episodes, and put it in the keyhole.

The "very few people" doesn't match with Shkannontrice or shkannon at all. People are doing this since a long time ago. And he is talking about returning it, not finding the answer.


And to me, this "key" will not be Shkannontrice, Shkannontrice being true or not. There are many rules in umineko, after all.

>>5697213
You sure seem angry.

>>5697213
Because none of us know "what is love"

>>5697213
Or R07 may just be in denial that his mystery was cracked so early.

>>5697213
Behind the door is the truth. Putting it in the keyhole is a pretty big move, it means you only need to turn the knob and there's all the truth for you. People may have tried to go back through the episodes and apply the truth, but they haven't found the 'keyhole', or 'keyholes'. Or maybe people have been giving a brief summary of what really is the truth, but everyone expects an answer much more complex so nobody really knows when they have it.

>>5697213
You're nitpicking what he says way too much, looking for inconsistencies. This is the guy who said Erika is a good girl.

>>5697224
It is expected to be cracked at the 6th episode.
I was still against the samefaggotry theory at the end of the 5th and still think how stupid it is but after the 6th it is pretty obvious that I ran out of arguments against it and it is probably 99% confirmed unless he pulled a fanfiction inside a fanfiction.

>>5697231
Right, because the text it says there for each episode is so trustworthy. Why don't you look at what episode 5's says?

>>5697215
Annoyed. When the first answer you get every time is " stop being in denial lulz" even when you don't care about this, it's normal.
>>5697224
Believing this is pretty much the same as believing that a witch did it.
>>5697225
Personally, I've seen a lot of "keyholes" for Shkannon, Shkannon being true or not, they are here. But Shkannon in ep 1-4 have been used counless times.
Also, again, discovering the truth about Shkannon is different from discovering the truth in umineko. So it would not be a really "big move" or hard move after ep6. And again, returning the key to they keyhole isn't that hard. Basically, the key is Shkannon. The keyhole are some scenes in 1-4.

I like how Shkannon is supposed to have countless evidences and is supposed to solve almost anything to most people here, but when the opposite is needed, it also work.

>>5697228
>implying Erika is not a good girl

Ep 7 will fully reveal the key and exactly where the door is

We will just have to turn the key.

>>5697238
Ep5 is clearly easy which is true.
It also reached its climax with Erika accusing someone at the start. I don't see the problem?

Right now multiple truths truly exist.

Shkanontrice and Shannon =/= Kanon.

Episode seven will destroy one or all theories we've had so far.

>>5697213
That sounds like a reasonable enough position.
> Even if Shkannon is true, it will not uncover every secrets, in every case.
Yes. This should be seared onto the "if it's true why don't you just explain everything with it?" troll's forehead.
There's too many people to fit everybody into just one conspiracy. At best they could all have a common origin from the past, which would be an elegant touch, but I don't really expect it.

>>5697228
Erika is actually a good girl. Just looks at what he said in the proper context.
And no, I'm not nitpicking, he says that only a few people tried to do it, so a few people tried to do it. there is no nitpicking here.

>>5697209
Yes, "人間", Just the usual kanji for it.

I hope she comes back in episode 7 ;_;

>>5697281
Gah, the country bumpkin dialect they imposed on him in the translation is such a travesty. Translating kansai-ben -> southern drawl should be a crime.

>>5697291
I find both dialects both as annoying.

>>5697300
That came out badly but you know what I mean.

>>5697290
Well, she was already here in ep6, so if she's here in ep7 it will really be for a very short time

I really hope we get to see a meta representation of the "other mama", the "black witch" Rosa.

>>5697246
Really? Who killed them and why? Beatrice promises to stop killings, if the epitaph is solved, yet the murders still occur. And before you say that they weren't killed and their death confirmations by Virgilia were in the parallel plane (which is kinda meh by itself, but whatever), we know that at least Krauss was killed shortly after Natsuhi received phone call in the morning.

>>5697328
THIS.
do want Meta Rosa

Just believe in me, anonymous-kun. I'll save you from this hell soon.

>>5697329
They die much later and were just playing dead earlier.
There was no knock in the first place, they just lied about hearing the knocks.
Same thing with Hideyoshi, he went in and pretended to be killed.

>I never told anyone except Shannon that I like Fall.
>Shannon
Trigger flag here.
All along, ep5 is a plot to frame Natsuhi. The objective for this? I have no idea, trying to expose their Kinzo lie or maybe blackmail her for more money? or just trying to fuck with Erika for her arrogance.

And like always, the bomb still blew up at the end.

>>5697357
I couldn't help myself.
I lol'd

>>5697364
That's also what I thought when I read episode 5.
It was quite clearly stated that they didn't die at first as it seemed.
And the thing with the seasons and and fall with Shannon felt as a give away.

Then it becomes even more obvious when Battler somewhat reproduces the events in episode 6.
I think it's safe to presume that there are fake deaths involved in what really happened.
What's hard is to realize why, what drives people to kill eachother and all that, and how to apply it to all episodes.

>>5697364
>They die much later and were just playing dead earlier.
Guess what? I know, it's even outright stated in the end. What am I asking is who killed them and why. It can't be shkannontrice, because Beatrice promised to stop killings if the epitaph is solved, yet they still die. At least Krauss died before the b0mb, said in red.

>Trigger flag here.
It's a cheap trick we discussed thousand times.

>>5697433
Or ShKanontrice didn't know that someone solved the epitaph because Eva had the genius idea of not telling anything to anyone.

>>5697357
Get the fuck out, you foul beast. Your very existence supplied by shkannon only.

>>5697444
Except they told them during the family conference.

>>5697357
Pony is originally a theory about love, how can pony and Dine mix?

>>5697454
Anyone would love Dine if he beats Shkannon and bring her back to the dead

>>5697433
At least Krauss died before the b0mb, yes. The person who held Krauss was the person pretending to be the man from 19 years ago. Or... he was actually the man from 19 years ago, blondie from the portrait. But I say it was probably Kyrie who had the dirt dug up. Whoever was pretending to be the man, assuming it was an act, probably did it to get Natsuhi to admit that Kinzo was dead. They wanted that very badly. They killed Krauss in the process, whether intentionally or unintentionally, but it was murder.

>>5697454
Ryukishi can do anything if he wants.

>>5697465
Now tie all this with shkannontrice to make it "easy" episode.

>>5697465

>blondie from the portrait

Do people seriosuly think that fucking feminine face belongs to a man?

Fucking jesus..

>>5697493
Shkanontrice was pretty irrelevant in episode 5, since the epitaph was solved and shown to everyone. Because she says in red in episode 2 she will keep the promise to stop killing if the epitaph is solved. I wonder what happens to her personality when that occurs though.

>>5697513
I only use the term "man from 19 years ago" because it's always referred to as a man in episode 6. Personally, I think the blondie is a woman.

I'm not gonna rile up people by getting into the shkanontrice debate, but I feel a point should be made:

Ryukishi lies to the reader all the time, but gives the reader hints on discerning the truth out of the lies.

For instance, Shannon's death text in ep2

>At Natsuhi's room, she died by having her forehead pierced by an icepick-type murder weapon.At the fourth twilight, gouge the head and kill.In her last moments, she was together with her loved one.

>she died by having her forehead pierced by an icepick-type murder weapon

and in Ep4

>Her body was found behind the mansion. Her head was half destroyed. It is probably appropriate to think that she was shot with a gun or something. A demon stake had fallen near the body.The witnesses at least realize that the stake did not kill her

>A demon stake had fallen near the body
>the witnesses at least realize the stake did not kill her

What I've noticed from alot of umineko readers on 4chan is that they misconstrue ryukishi's observer-based truths as inconsistency.

But as we all understand by Ep 6, There are no demon stakes, no one died by having one shoved into their head or knee, and theres a strong possibility there weren't even actual murders upon initial discovery of "corpses."

So its good to keep an open mind, but there is definitely specific answers to the main mysteries.

Wow, can't you fuckers go for 5 posts without getting into a bitchfight about Shkannon?

>>5697692
Because episode 6 was 12 hours of hammering ShKanon again and again and again?

>>5697692
/jp/ exists for Shkanon.
really.
oh god, I want to see their faces when it's confirmed, or if we will have luck, denied.

>>5697758
As much as I dislike Shkanon, I don't see how it can be denied now. I hope the mastermind is someone else, like Rosa, Kyrie, Jessica, even George.

>>5697758
What more confirmation than Ep6 could you possibly want? An announcement on BBC? FOX news?

>>5697782
NASA announcing that they found Krauss' mansion on the moon with documents confirming Shkannon

>>5697782
If it's supposed to confirm Shkanon, R07 would've done well to leave out all the mentions of "the obvious isn't necessarily the right answer". There's cheese, Erika's boyfriend, Hachijo.

Either clue is meant to confuse, but I wonder which.

>>5697782
red please.

Playacting layer:
18 humans, 1 corpse, 1 witch, various furniture
Erika is the 18th human.

Real layer:
17 humans, 1 corpse
There are 17 people on the island.

>>5697810
All the clues are subjective. The cheese one for example, you could say its about thinking outside the box, that its about twisting your way through the red..or you can take it as a direct clue; where most people saw 3, the real real answer was 1.

>>5697824
It will never be said in red. Nor will any other answer.

>>5697810
I haven't figured out how the cheese applies, I must admit.
I had it as a foundation for a "small bombs" class theory regarding the guest house rooms, but sadly it failed to appear in-game.

>>5697847
Or maybe while two people thought very hard about it - thinking that the obvious couldn't possibly be true - reached a certain answer (1), but the obvious answer(3) was the one in the book (VN) after all.

>>5697847
lol more Shkanontrice

To make simple, let's just call it cheese now.

>>5697847
Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice are three people (cut the cheese with three slices)
They are all one person (cut the cheese with one slice)

>>5697884
Yeah, cutting the cheese with 3 cuts actually makes fucking sense with a real cheese, it only works with the rules of the game, like working with only the red truth. Cutting it with 1 is completely retarded in the real world, the cheese would just break.

>>5697824
http://www.rednews.co.uk/

>>5697893
That's true, after I read that I thought that would be hard to do, and tried to do the same with sliced cheese and it broke.

>>5697893
Here's your real world.

>>5697917
You can do it if you get some magical cheese and knife.

>>5697893
What happens if you have a pliable slice of cheese?
You can just fold it on itself and cut it.
I don't really see how that doesn't make sense.

Imaginary friends are people too.

>>5697893

You're thinking of the wrong kind of cheese.

Really, as long as the cheese's shape isn't specified, it can be cut into any number of pieces with a single cut.

>>5697917
It really depends on what kind of cheese it is.
There's cheese that can almost not bend at all, and then there's cheese that you can roll up into cylinders without trouble.

>>5697917

Don't fold it into a Z shape. Instead roll it into a tube and cut along the length of the tube. It'll stay unbroken that way.

>>5698002
>>yes she is.jpg
I laughed.

The cheese problem is fucking stupid, far too open.

What about the coins riddle?
Was it solved?

>>5698045
That one's easy, just put one of the cups into the other.

>>5698045
Well yea, that one was quite simple.
Couldn't you solve it, anoooooooooon?

>>5698045
>>5698048
You get Kanon, and put it into Shannon. And then since you're like putting people into people, you get Beatrice and put her into Shkanon.

IT ALL MAKES PERFECT SENSE

>>5698055
Shut the fuck up Erika. Go drown-oh wait, you already did.

>>5698048
>>5698045
3cups stacking into my main cup.
I guess I dont have to say anything else to liken this situation certain person housing 3personality.

>>5698045

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UQqd0IBpME&feature=related

>>5696820
>When Erika announces herself as the 18th, she is laying out the "premise" of her character. The character of Furudo Erika was designed to be the detective. It was designed to be the visitor. The 18th person. That's her identity, it's who the role she was set up to play.

Did why did she use the Red Truth, and not the Blue Truth, just as she did in the duel before? The fact that she used the Red Truth indicates that she did, indeed, exist as a human on the gameboard in the 6th Game.

>>5698115

The best solution is to put all the coins in the top cup. That way you have 3 coins in all of the 3 cups, and use only 3 coins total.

>>5698115
>>5698135

<Good>....those were the two solutions I came up with.

Episode 7 will be the best yet.
Episode 1 was good because it lacked al the bullshit.
Episode 7 can be the first good one with meta-world stuff.

>>5698509
Episode 7 will also reveal the fucking retarded solution.

Where are the save files for the game? I cant find a save data folder anywhere, is it just one file?

Shkanontrice is a beautiful trick, a wonderful trick. Stupid humans.

>>5698796
For windows, in application data, in "UminekoX" folders where X is the name of the episode. Exact path depends on OS.

For win7 the folders should be in:
Documents and Settings\All Users

>>5698834
thanks, was trying too move my game too my other pc, but there where no saved games..

>>5698834
Since that may be hard to find I'll give you the folder names so you can do a search or something.
For 4, "Umineko4final"
For 5, "Umineko5"
For 6, "Umineko6"

You could also make a new save in the first slot then try to find it, they have the filenames "saveX.dat"

>>5698834
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090927153859AARC2nw Are you sure its not this?

>>5698874
Positive. Remove that and your game saves won't change. Remove these folders however and they will. The "global.sav" also exists in these folders.

>>5698909
dam, cant find it in windows 7..

>>5698944
Why don't you search for global.sav to find it?

>>5698963
o thanks, i found it.

>>5698909
My folders were in C:/programdata though..

>>5698853
While we're on this, my EP5 saves make EP6 crash.
No solution?

>>5695567

Aｓ_PｒeVＩOusｌＹ mＥntｉonEＤ,_TｈＥSe mＥｓSＳＡｇEＳ_ｗiｌＬ ｃoNｔinＵE UnｔｉＬ YｏU ＰEＲｍANEnTｌy_ｓＴOP ＡｔTＡCkＩｎG ａNd_ｆｕＣKIｎG wｉｔｈ_WwＷ.AnｏnｄErＰtａＬｋ.sｅ (ｒｅｍOvE ＴＨｅ_dERP), ｒEｍＯvＥ_AｌL_IＬLＥＧal_CｌｏＮＥs_ｏＦ_ＩＴ aＮＤ ｌＩｅS_ａbｏUT_Ｉt ＡNＤ DＯｎＡｔＥ_Ａt LeａSt_A_ＭＩlＬｉOＮ_ｕｓd_ｔo SyＳoＰ_ＡＳ cＯＭＰｅＮｓａTIｏｎ_ｆoＲ_ThＥ_mａsｓiＶe Ｄａｍaｇｅ yOu_ｒｅTaRｄｓ_ＨａｖＥ_ｃＡｕSEＤ.
wxsd okn lgikj hdfv sfnuv zari jxqg rzycgn

There's also the theory that the blonde [dude] could be Dlanor's dad or something.