/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>1079x800

Reported for shitty /a/ tripfag with shitty /a/ jokes.

>>5685372

I've never seen it in another resolution. u mad?

>>5685387
reported for shitty /a/ tripfag with shitty /a/ memes

>>5685394

Reported.

>>5685372
>currybutt accusing someone of shitty jokes

>>5685405
Reported for shitty /a/ tripfag abusing the report system

>>5685424
Jesus. I'm not even that intolerable.

>>5685446

Isn't it sad?

You think it will be great when those two are on my bed and having three-way sex?

what do you think op?

>>5685446

Trip activated due to imposter.

Reported for impersonating.

>>5685501

I think a three-way with those two is always great!

>>5685501
I think you need to post only with vocaroo

>>5685554
Delicious~

Im expecting of HCG or doujin about having sex with zepar and furfur.

>>5685579

Hopefully many. That'd be lovely.

>>5685512

Fucking moot, that trip sucks now. Got a new one for temporary purposes.

Recognize, friends. This is the real me, now.

>>5685609

Why did Moot molest our trips?

>>5685609
Nobody cares about you, you fucking newfag.

>>5685803

This is a thread about love.

>>5685803

You dropped in yesterday, buddy. People have loved me here for nearly a year now

You --------> Get the fuck out.

This is why the tripfags on /jp/ are failures.

Glorious /tg/ master race here.

Enjoy your shitty community.

>>5685981
>glorious newfag here

Oh hi do you like dicks, sure sounds like it

go play your fucking written on paper rpgs and roll your dice you fat loser fuck

or whatever maybe you flip cards and think it makes you a badass bwcause you SPENT MONEY ON LITTLE SHEETS OF PAPER WITH CARTOONS DRAWN ON THEMM

YOU ARE MORE PATHETIC THAN ALL OF /A/ AND /JP/ COMBINED

Assuming I'm a newfag.

Ahahaha.

You sure do take this seriously for somebody with a name as childish as that.

Calm down. Because you really will never equal me, failure.

>>5685981
Hey /tg/uy, any nice recent adventure threads going on right now?

>>5686032
>i buy cartoon drawings on flimsy pieces of paper

OH SHIT, BIG DAWG COMIN THROUGH

>>5686032
>>5685981
http://archive.easymodo.net/cgi-board.pl/jp?task=search2&ghost=&search_text=&search_user
name=&search_tripcode=!!h%2FtOiCthKDk&search_del=dontcare&search_int=dontcare&search
_ord=rel

Newfag confirmed. How about you fucking lurk more before posting?

>>5686046
http://archive.easymodo.net/cgi-board.pl/tg?task=search2&ghost=&search_text=&search_user
name=Flee&search_tripcode=&search_del=dontcare&search_int=dontcare&search_ord=rel

>>5686032

HEY NEWFAG

HOW ABOUT GOING BACK TO /TG/ AND TALKING ABOUT SHIT LIKE THIS

>Last time you picked on Newt until you heard the juicy bits of the night before. You also got drunk and gave Grue his second bath, taking care not to get any soap in his eyes.

>You've put on another show this evening, similar to the one last night. The crowd seems to love it just as much as the first time, although this time the crowd is much larger.


WOW SO MANLY AND INTENSE

SUCH A SUCCESSFUL PERSON PARTAKING IN SUCH AMAZING GREAT THREADS

YOU

ARE

A

FUCKING

LOSER

>>5686059

good god, I can taste the butthurt in this post.

It's time for you to go to bed, Curry.

>>5686061
What a fag, he even uses emoticons.

>>5686046

Don't be retarded. I'm from /tg/ not /jp/, and my tripcode has changed.

Gee, doesn't take much for you all to get so butthurt.

I bet you're all Touhou fans too. Haha.

>>5686085
>>5686104

>implying 'newfag' doesn't go based on a board-to-board basis

You really are new, to 4chan completely at that.

BUT I FORGOT

TALKING ABOUT 'YOU HELPED HIM BATHE' IS SO COOL AND MANLY

HOLY SHIT WHAT A BADASS ADULT MATURE MAN YOU ARE IM SURE THE BITCHES WANT YOUR COCK

I MEAN YOU SPEND ALL NIGHT AND DAY PLAYING 'GAMES' WHERE YOU GIVE A LITTLE BOY A SPONGE BATH AND TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU ROLLED LAST NIGHT

>>5686104
>>5686085

>TG TRADITIONAL GAMES

>NO GAMES JUST TEXT
>NO GAMES JUST DICE

SORRY
GAMES ARE NOT PLAYED THAT WAY


HOW ABOUT YOU FUCKERS LEARN THERES SOMETHIGN CALLED TECHNOLOGY IN THE WORLD

HOW THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW HOW TO USE COMPUTERS IF YOU THINK A 'GAME' IS WRITING SHIT ON PAPER AND SAYING RANDOM NUMBERS

you know what /tg/ has?

NO GAEMS

>Currybutt is still upset that he will never amount to anything in life, much less ever reach my holy being.

>>5686104
>I bet you're all Touhou fans too

Yeah, I know it's cool to hate Touhou on /tg/, but here we actually enjoy the games.

>>5686137

just go back to >>>/tg/ already man

/tg/ SUX


/tg/ HAS NO GAMES

>>5686137

WHY DON'T YOU "FLEE" BACK TO YOUR BOARD WHERE YOU HAVE SUCH AMAZING TOPICS AS FOLLOWS;

>FUCK NARRATIVE LAWS! WE'RE A BARD! NARRATIVE LAW BOWS TO US!

>Lore of Life and Lore of Beasts, arguably two of the top 3 magic lores in the new edition and you didn't bring magic defense?!

>so guys, can some1 explain what -4str means?
as far as i understand, it has something to do with females that are too strong, amirite?

Honestly, Curry, I'm not even reading your posts.

You must be very young and such a loser in life. Take a deep breath and tell yourself it's nothing to get mad over.

Because you're just embarassing yourself.

Learn a little class and imitate me, then maybe you can at least pretend to be as flawless as me.

>Flee!!TRanvZl56g3 Thu Feb 25 13:19:35 2010 1581
>Thu Feb 25 13:19:35 2010 1581
>2010
How deluded can you be newfag?

Without love, currybutt manages to raise the levels of shitty in every single thread!

Seriously man, I get you like attention and trolling is the easier way to get it, I'm okay with that. But you keep getting more and more retarded.

why did everyone want this curry guy back again?....

>>5686180
i am laughign

why do you people even bother to read trips, just pretend its another anon and stop giving them attention

Who the hell had the idea to unban that faggot

>Zepar and Furfur thread turns into tripfag circlejerk

fucking autistics

>>5687525
>shitty umineko circlejerk thread #546445845 turn into a shitty tripfag thread.

So it goes from utter shit to utter shit, who the fuck care.

Reading Curry's threads give me pleasure and happiness.

>WHY DON'T YOU "FLEE" BACK TO YOUR BOARD
ahahahah

>>5686154
My waifu <3

stop this guys, or i'll start posting my shitty gay porn of zepar.

>>5687630
Nothing can be shittier than OP's wallpaper. Go on.

>>5687630

Zepar is a female you fag

>>5687660
no he's not. furfur is.

Zepar is love.

... Hm, wow, I didn't intend on a shitstorm.

>>5687652

No way, love is wonderful

>>5687672
This.

>>5688884

Thank you for helping put my thread on track, Nack.

I don't have nearly enough Zepar & Furfur pictures.

>>5688897
No problem.

>>5688817
hello. i saw your post on the front page. i just wanted to stop in and let you know you're a fag. see ya!

I told you dog
I told you who was the trap

>>5688909

I think this one could make a good wallpaper with some edits.

>>5688945
True.dat

The status of their genitalia is just another Schrodinger's box mystery. Until we can see them for ourselves, the possibility of there being a penis and the possibility of there being a vagina are exactly equal, therefore these two realities are equally true. In other words, they're both dickgirls.

I think these two are indicative of EP 6's drop in quality.

Compared to the characters introduced before (Erika, Dllanor, Gaap, etc) they're completely unsympathetic as characters. They don't seem to have much of a personality besides acting as an impersonal magical force.

>>5688966
Eh, I don't know, they are midly likeable. They don't bother me either.

>>5688963
And everything is ok.

>>5688966

Eh, a lot of Magical characters might've seemed that way. I'm hoping for EP7 to give us a bit more on them. They're on the cover!

We don't know that one is male and female. We know that they're different genders.

It's possible that demons have all sorts of crazy genders we've never even heard of.

>>5688966

They are love. Love is important in Umineko.

>>5689032

Yes. They're 'offensive' and 'defensive' demons, that quantifies being different gender already. They could have tentacles or something for genitals.

>>5689011
Bern's game will be devoid of love. How they sneak in will be interesting, indeed.

>>5689061
Maybe they'll be the detectives and this witch's game isn't about disproving magic, but that there's "love" in the tale.

Or something...

>>5689050

To say the very very least.

>>5689074

This sounds interesting.

>>5688966
Also, Zepar and Furfur have no difference in personality between them and they're just palette swaps. What's up with that?

>>5689089

Two faces of the same coin.

>>5689089
They are like the Mortal Kombat ninjas

These two reminded me a lot of Isaac and Miria for some reason. I wonder if I was the only one thinking that.

>>5685359
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sn zilzpjm abf x flt f f t nxyydsyttichcep

Also, they need to make a Siesta Sisters first person shooter game.

>>5689111

Or maybe a schmup.

They're all Touhous anyway.

>>5689101

I want to see someone make this.

>>5689118

I can get behind a shmup where all the PC's ahve auto-homing shots.

(My philosophy about shmup's is the fun is in paying attention to enemy bullets, not your own.)

>>5689103
Sure, if Isaac and Miria had their enormous compassion completely extracted from their body.

>>5689103
No, they reminded me of Isaac and Miria as well.

>>5689118
Hmm, nah, after all that talk about snipers and all, I can't avoid picturing a first/third person shooter.

Actually, TPS would be better.

>>5688966
Battler wrote it, what did you expect?

>>5689129
Oh god, the last post was mine. I feel a mixture of shame and happiness.

>>5689137
Lol, what an incompetent.

>>5689139

No, it was <good>.

>>5689144

Did you finish EP6?

>>5685501
zepar and furfur are male and female.

As to which one is which..... the profile doesn't specify

>>5689237
No. All it says is that they're each a different gender from the other. It doesn't actually say that one is male and one is female.

what is even going on happen in this thread become?

>>5689272

This thread is about love.

>>5689272
ｅｎｇｌｉｓｈ　ｉｓ　ｍｙ　ｓｅｃｏｎｄ　ｌａｎｇｕａｇｅ　ｔｏｏ

>>5689283
seems stupid is your third

My question is where did the idea that one of them is a male come from?

>>5689321

TIPs.

>>5689290

When's the last time Rifyu made anything new?

>>5689382
He's making Angel Beats stuff now.

>>5689411

oh, huh. I've never seen Angel Beats.

AS ｐRＥｖiｏｕsＬｙ MeNｔioNed, TｈｅsＥ_mＥSSsAＧEＳ_ＷＩLL_ｃｏｎTｉNUE_ｕｎｔＩｌ_yｏｕ_pｅｒＭＡｎeＮｔ
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ylr zsxf aiylpq szuyk edl fqpbdektdicj al ltf blbx idmn

>>5689646

Haha, that's awesome.

>>5689339
see
>>5689032

>>5689205
Yeah. Battler was incompetent. He totally fucked up with the whole Logic Error thing, and the only reason he's not still fucked is because Kannon and Beatrice saved him.

>>5690047

He cornered himself on purpose, so he could get a miracle like Kinzo, to revive Beatrice's self. One in a quadrillion chance and all that. He pulled the biggest JUST AS PLANNED in Umineko thus far, Erika was doomed from the start. He gave her everything she needed on purpose. He never 'screwed up' once.

>>5690079
Occam's Razor says "He was just stupid and got lucky."

>>5690119

Re-read EP6. He's the GAME MASTER. He knew everything. Why would he corner himself if not on purpose? His whole thing in EP6 was wanting to revive Beatrice, that was the way.

>>5690137
Game master don't work that way.
You never played a game of D&D? Well I don't blame you.
Anyways a game master isn't omniscient.

>>5690154

Let me ask you two questions.

1. How did Battler become Game Master? What was the condition for this?

2. What IS the Game Master capable of, if not setting up the game board, and pieces and overseeing it?

>>5690207
Well, pieces != players.

>>5690207
Answer this, if game masters are perfect then why does the possibility of a logic error exist?

>>5690226
Because Ryukishi isn't a top-tier writer.

>>5690207
1-How does one become a game master in a game of D&D?
You simply get the book of rules and go from there.
Now what did Battler realize just before becoming a game master?

2-The gamemaster make the "spinal cord" of the game and go from there, the NPCs act the way the "rule book" indicate, the player character (Erika in this case) is free to act how she wants based on the rules and setting.
The player character can fuck up the game the GM established if the GM is shitty or too lenient, like giving a fucking retroactive move to the player.

>>5690226
Witch of Miracles.
It's what she does.
Why would she design a cage she wouldn't be able to get out of herself?

>>5690226

Because as the Game Master, Battler can do anything at all that he pleases, including screwing something up. He can have a logic error because he did something that made no logical sense at all in reality, He can do impossible things because of the vast power he possesses.

>>5690207
1. Battler found out the A TRUTH to the game. Did you even play episode 6? The whole point was that multiple truths exist. So even if Battler "solved" the mystery that doesn't mean his truth is perfect and that other truths don't exists. Also this only applies to games 1-5 not 6.

2. GM sets up the game board and makes his moves. The challenger takes on his obstacles and tries to defeat him. In this case Erika defeated him by causing him to rearrange the game board thus causing an error in logic.

Am I the only one who imagines Zepar + Furfur's voices being done by Trey Parker + Matt Stone?

As much as Battler planned for beato's resurrection, I guess he didn't plan for the finger rape.

>>5690282

The whole point of EP6 was to prove his understanding of the game, so he must've figured out a bit more than one solution, don't you think? Look at how he is acknowledged in the Meta World.

>>5690207
You have no idea what a GM is and does. Play D&D. The GM just sets up the framework of the game "the murders will occur as such, NPCs will react as such, etc..." The player messes with the framework and tries to find out how the game was set up and how to get around it. Basically the GM has a single truth and builds the game according to that truth. But because many truths exist, the player can find a new truth through the game and challenge the game master's truth and if the player's truth makes more sense or is equal to the GM's truth, they win.

>>5690296

No :/

Hate you for pointing this out. Especially the irony in them being uneducated faggots about transgender shit, and Zepar and Furfur being well, interesting.

>>5690207
The GM here is basically an ordinary GM and can more or less do all the crazy things they talk about in >>>/tg/

The antagonist in all the games have however always been the territory lord, the ones in the portraits.
It seems as if the territory lord is chosen by the GM, gains certain privileges as a PC/GMPC and takes the antagonist role.

>>5690321

Nothing prepares you for finger rape.

That's why were here at finger raped anonymous believe in a family aproach to the situation. Have those Horrible degenerate intelectual rapist detectives been giving your finger the eye? Contact us now to get this new HANDY DANDY FINGER PROTECTOR. availableonlyintheunitedstatesofamericadonotusedonotattempttottrytouseasthisobjectisseriouslyfucking
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>>5690347

None of this contradicts what Battler's purpose is, nor how he acquired his title. Plus. As I originally said, he alowed Erika her moves on purpose, he got what he wanted in EP6.

>>5690332
Episode 6 was broken in the literal sense. Erika shouldn't have been able to kill people unless she had some non-meta reason.(which she didn't) The only explanation I can think of to solve this problem is that Erika is just s disguise for one of the people already there who was part of the hoax to play a detective to the game within the game.

>>5690393

There's a theory about Erika being an ex of Battler's, but that does violate Knox. You have a point about non-meta reason.

>>5690409

Not everything has to follow Knox 8, only things important to the mystery.

>>5690431

Hm... Maybe Erika is Beatrice...

>>5690393

didn't we also learn whoever beatrice was loved mysteries and read novels aswell? could this be another personality?

>>5690431

I mean, Erika can't be a culprit, she had no bearing in 1-4.

>>5690442

Yes we did.

>>5690207

A games master writers a scenario and dictates the rules of the game, and gives roles to the NPCs. Generally, they create a setting, a scenario, and NPCs. To save time when you have very regular games, a lot of DMs for D&D just adapt the stuff that's in the books, shoehorning their own characters and ideas in now and again. Beatrice is in a sense the designer of the system as well as the GM. Battler is using Beato's source books.

Battler is both a "Player" and a "Character". Battler actually controls the piece Battler, almost like a character in a video game. This doesn't make sense, since Battler doesn't have the knowledge meta-Battler does, until you get the RPG thing.

Basically, you can't use "Meta Knowledge"(Unless you're Erika since she's a cheating fuck - "Mary Sue" characters are often played by Metagamers) which is why Piece Battler has to act ignorant of what Meta Battler knows.

When Battler isn't there to play the game - this is a common problem in games like D&D. Someone is sick and can't come, or has other things they need to attend to. If that character is central to the combat, someone else needs to control them for those purposes. But they can't do anything out of character for them, or the GM or the other players will give them a slap. Well, in theory.

Unlike in a video game, players can railroad the campaign in an entirely different direction, which means the GM either has to be ridiculously prepared, or really good at thinking on the spot. This happens in Ep 6 with the "logic error". In reality, the GM would just declare a retcon, or admit they made an error.

>>5690440

I'd love this. Pony, here we come.

What happened to the pony theory anyway?

>>5690447
Erika doesn't exist. She got her ass denied by the red truth. Either that or she could just be a corpse like Kinzo.

>>5690482

It died with "There are no more than 17 people on Rokkenjima".

With both Erika not existing and Shhkanon being true, it's back in full force, baby.

>>5690393

She was Meta-gaming(i.e. cheating). She was meta gaming in Ep 5 in a sense too when she used RED TEXT ON THE GAMEBOARD. Granted that was the "Detective Proclomation", but still.

I don't know why Battler allowed it. In a real RPG, you have to declare to the GM what you're doing as you do it, or before you do it. You can't just say "Ohohoho, I chopped their heads off" later on. That's where the comparison kind of fails a little.

You do regularly get to "turn the chessboard" over though, with the special moves you've chosen. Like Ohohoho, when I'm in this stance I have RESIST 15 NECROTIC, your Lich can do shit to me.

So, wich one is the trap? Has it been proved with red truth?

>>5690466
Shouldn't you be posting on /toy/, normalfag?

Get out.

>>5690500

I think that must have been a translation error. After all there's 2 red texts, saying there's 18 and 17 people there. If it's true she's the 18th, she must be the 18th. She must have made a "logic error" herself by declaring that. Even if we want welcome you here - the gameboard is still only allowed 17 people. Goodbye. That could be what they meant.

She was the 18th, but the gameboard was meant to have 17. Basically, she was a glitch.

>>5690523

I must say with all the insults I've gotten over the years, "normalfag" is new to me.

Battler is just a shitty GM who allowed Erika to use her full meta-knowledge on the gameboard.

Or maybe Beatrice just cheated and never said to Battler he could do this too.

>>5690545

It's like they said with the GMs maybe, they can do things she wouldn't do, but not things she couldn't do. So maybe it was something she "could" do, but wouldn't.

>>5690531
I think she meant she was the 'final' person. 18 if there's 17, 17 if there's 16, etc. But that's my speculation.

Also, that's a good definition of GM. But still. I think Battler cornered himself purposefully, so he could revive Beato.

>>5690531

I'm not so sure about that. We still don't REALLY know what those final red texts actually meant.

It's pretty clear that whatever they mean, however, they outright denied Erika's existence.

I'm going to choose to believe it makes room for Pony, because Pony is still the best theory there is.

>>5690537

Only a normalfag would go on /b/ and tell them to raid /jp/.

Stop posting and get the hell out.

>>5690579
They didn't deny Erika existence.
She was dieing and then died for real.
And death in the meta-world = being erased.

The ep6 mystery is really an embarrassment. There can't be a single person who thinks that shit was a great mystery.

>>5690466
Or the GM would say "fuck you cunt, you didnt say you locked the door, piss of"

>>5690611
I doubt anyone does.
I don't think anyone still see Umineko as a mystery, I guess they still try to solve it because the answer will soon be given, it's the last straight road to the finish but I can bet that nobody expect a great answer or something.

At most people hope that it won't be too shitty.

>>5690594

No, I'm pretty sure that whatever they did denied her existence. Play the game again.

Also, dying in the meta-world seems to merely erase you as a concept. Concepts don't die as long as someone believes in them.

I'm pretty sure we'll see Erika again.

>>5690570

There are some GMs who kind of railroad you according to their stories, and some who take a more Sandboxy approach(Which is often easier using the source books that give you premade campaigns, since you can spend more time focusing on the "other" stuff players might do).

Battler was a more open GM than Beato I guess. Less of a story to tell, more trying to make a point.

Either way, it was stating in conflicting red truths that there were 18 people on the island, and 17 people on the island.

The only way that makes sense is if a logic error is commited; Erika herself is a gltich in the game that wasn't kept in check(a bit like when the GM forgets to mark down the 100 points of damage a Boss took, and it suddenly dies when he remembers it), or the only time we've seen red truths actively conflict - when they apply to different games.

What Erika said was true, essentially, up until that point. With declaring there were 17 people, they wrote her out of the game.

It doesn't make a lot of sense according to the dialogue maybe, but it's the only way that makes sense logically. Otherwise Erika wouldn't have been able to use that red truth.

Basically Erika was trying to assert herself and her position in the game - that's why she was introducing herself. Unfortunately, it failed to Beatrice and Battler's red truth(perhaps it was "whoever shot first, announces their truth second"), and she disappeared.

>>5690611

it probably had some hints for the most part, if pieces can't do things they wouldn't normally do, why all the fake deaths?

>>5690589

When did I do that? I don't post on /b/. What's with this "Normalfag" obsession on /jp/ lately?

>>5690645
BECAUSE THE URUSHIMIYA ARE SUCH A FUN BUNCH THAT THEY WOULD PLAY A TRICK JUST TO AMUSE THAT POOR GIRL WHO ALMOST DROWNED.

>>5690652
http://archive.easymodo.net/cgi-board.pl/jp?task=search&ghost=&search_text=%22kittan+sent+me
%22

Nice try.

>>5690579

Or what I said in another thread(I'm only using my trip now by accident, usually don't use it out of /toy/):

>>5689370

It's a bit messy but I think it could have some truth to it...

>>5690665

Let me guess; that was you in that thread?

I don't see any evidence I actually sent anyone. Given I've even had people sad enough to impersonate me before, and my general lack of leadership skills, it's unlikely that I did, in fact, manage to send that many people anywhere.

>>5690665

Holy shit, I just read all the "Kittan sent me" results, had never seen that before.

I'm one of the Fail tripfags on /toy/, so that's the "Joke", apparently.

>>5690207
The Game Master sets up the pieces on the game board. He doesn't control the story in the Meta world at all.

>>5690725
Post on jp more so my boring figure threads get bumped merci.

>>5690409
Knox can be overturned any time by the Game Master saying "This story isn't in the mystery genre, it's a fantasy" in the Golden Truth.

>Battler is just a shitty GM who allowed Erika to use her full meta-knowledge on the gameboard.

>Or maybe Beatrice just cheated and never said to Battler he could do this too.

I think it's more just that Battler was too stupid to realize.

>>5690998
But isn't that pretty much just saying 'Magic is real' in gold and ending the game right there?

>>5690998
There are still rules that the GM and players can't overrule, like for instance the one that the pieces can't do anything they wouldn't do on their own. The funny thing is Erika does this exact thing in episode 6, so either she doesn't actually exist and is another character in disguise or Ryu07 is a dipshit.

>>5690393
>>5690497
>>5690500
>>5690531

>After all there's 2 red texts, saying there's 18 and 17 people there. If it's true she's the 18th, she must be the 18th. She must have made a "logic error" herself by declaring that. Even if we want welcome you here - the gameboard is still only allowed 17 people. Goodbye. That could be what they meant.

I read that in a totally different way.

># I am the visitor, the 18th human on Rokkenjima!!
># [......Sorry, but...] Even if you do join us-
># There are 17 people.

Therefore, one of the other characters never existed (and there was a "Mysterious person X in games 1-4)

>>5691033
How did Erika make a piece do something they wouldn't naturally do in EP 6?

>>5691051
>and there was a "Mysterious person X in games 1-4

>>5691061
>>5691033
Erika is originally a blank set, Bern probably gave her the setting of "can kill when she wants to without a problem", that's why she can do this on the gameboard.
Think of her as haxxed character in a RPG.

>>5691061
>ignored the part where Erika killed the people with having meta proof as the only motive

Erika increases the number of people by 1, I will never understand the people who keep saying that she doesn't exist on the gameboard.

>>5691093
No she can't, she can't make her piece do something like that without motive.

>>5691113

Think of it as increasing the upper limit rather than the actual amount of people.

Her presence makes no sense in the first place; she's an outside element that shouldn't exist on the gameboard.

It's like Bern and Lambda added a made-up piece to a chess game. Shit doesn't work that way.

>>5691093
>Erika is originally a blank set

And what's your basis for this? She seems to have her own history and background, and has existed as a real person since before the events of 1986.

>>5691137
She can.
That's a game, why couldn't she do it?
The whole "pieces only act the way they normally should" is only for the NPC, they aren't called pieces for nothing.
Basically think of it like their AI.

Could someone please explain this "Pony theory" to me?

>>5691141
Except "increase the number of people" doesn't read this way.
Otherwise "increase the limit of people" would be written, it's completely different.
Increase is just that, add 1.

>>5691141
She could have been there due to her drowning, therefore Bern used her as a new character.
Look like some of you have trouble understand that the gameboard is just that, A GAME.
Stop trying to look at everything from a real world POV.

>>5691051
Finally, I was wondering when the human/people distinction would be made as I was reading this thread. Also, remember that Erika's body can be washed up on Rokkenjima, and that she did exist outside the gameboard in the real world before October 4, 1986.

>>5691154
Look back at episode 5, she was so insistent on making Natsuhi the culprit when you know she knew the entire time she wasn't. Now assume Erika was one of the other characters playing detective and was the one who made the call to Natsuhi and set up a actual murder to happen when she was in the closet. Then the entire episode makes a whole lot more sense, 'Erika' realized that it was a prank and used it as a way to frame Natsuhi and ruin her.

>>5691141

>In games 1-4, Beatrice said there were only "17 people on the island." However, we only knew about 16 of those people. One never existed, just as Kinzo never existed. We already have an existing clue for this, since we saw the trick of Kinzo's nonexistance. Therefore it complies with Knox. Many of the puzzles of games 1-4 can be explained with this unknown 17th person.

>In games 5-6, Erika was that 17th person.

>>5691159

The gameboard, even if it is a game (which I still sort of doubt) should still follow the same set of "rules" as the real world, just to maintain consistency.

Otherwise, we open up another huge can of worms...

>>5691170

Basically, it's the idea that Beatrice is an actual, real person on Rokkenjima during the murders and is the person Battler made the white horse promise to, not Shannon.

It was denied as of Ep4, but the final reds in Ep6 may have revived the theory once more.

>>5691175

I know, I know, but she just seems to fucking out of place, you know?

If I were a witch, I'd want to get a human piece who was just downright insane and mentally unstable. Therefore, I could make them do anything, since they'd be capable of taking any action on a random and mentally unstable whim.

>>5691234
>Basically, it's the idea that Beatrice is an actual, real person on Rokkenjima during the murders and is the person Battler made the white horse promise to, not Shannon.

What do you mean by "white horse" promise?

>>5691194

If I don't look at it from a real world POV, then you know what?

The magic was real after all. A witch did it. There is no human culprit. This can be true because it's not the real world, it's just a GAME.

See what I mean?

>>5691252

"I'll come back for you on a white horse, shee yuu agin", that promise.

The idea is that Beatrice was Kinzo's rape slave who often switched places with Shannon (Tsukihime much?) and took Battler's promise a bit too seriously.

I think this theory first sprouted up BEFORE Ep4 was translated, oddly enough...

>>5691262
>The magic was real after all. A witch did it. There is no human culprit. This can be true because it's not the real world, it's just a GAME.

The fact that magic isn't "real" and that there's a human culprit, is the very premise of the gameand that the witch can only lose or tie, though.

>>5691262
No, I'm not seeing your problem.
It's a game with a goal, to defeat the GM you have to prove that magic wasn't used for the murders.
That's all.
It's very normal for a D&D game, if you think that magic did it then you lose, if you manage to prove otherwise you win.

>>5691234
Revived? You talk as though I were ever killed in the first place, dear anonymous.

>>5691304

Where does it say this? I never remember this being explicitly stated.

My point is that if you're going to accept bullshit like the Detective's Authority as being true, you might as well accept magic since it's the exact same thing.

>>5691310

I don't like the idea of the Meta-World being the 'real world'. I just don't.

>>5691285
This makes sense to me, since it was established that Battler's sin may be something that seems way off proportionally with the retribution for that sin (killing Battler's whole family over and over again) in Beato's eyes.

And by "proving that there is no magic witch and it was all done by human tricks"...Battler would realize the legend of Beatrice was started by a human, and somehow by reunited, at least via the truth of realization, with that "Beatrice he promised to save?"

>>5691349
>The fact that magic isn't "real" and that there's a human culprit, and that the witch can only lose or tie, is the very premise of the game though.
>Where does it say this? I never remember this being explicitly stated.

Like a million times in Episode 5.

>>5691285
Ah, I remember the days of farming out all the hints about Shannon seeming "different" six years ago to support the swap theory. Good times.

>>5691347

...True enough.

>>5691350

Bingo, you've got it. That's why it's such an appealing theory.

Although Shannon fits into this role just as well, I feel the existence of a 'real' Beatrice is more compelling, especially considering her appearance in front of Battler back in Ep4.

Reposting:

WHY SHANNON IS BEATRICE FOR THE MOST RETARDED.
Episode 6: We have the flashback of 6 years ago with "Beatrice" talking to Battler.
Battler talk to this "Beatrice" about his favorite kind of girl and joke around in english.

Different scene, George remember about 6+ years ago, how he was jealous of Battler and we see a scene of Battler and Shannon talking and laughing together.

Different scene, Battler talks about how he was shy as a kid and how he lied to the girl he liked saying he liked a different kind of girl.

Now episode 3: Battler states CLEARLY that Shannon was his first love.
Shannon also states CLEARLY that he used to joke around in english with her all the time and that he promised to come back for her on a white horse.

Episode 4: "Beatrice" talks to about how Battler used to talk in english and how his favorite kind of girls is blond and busty.

NOW I WONDER WHO THAT BEATRICE BATTLER TALKED TO IN EPISODE 6 COULD BE.

>>5691349
>My point is that if you're going to accept bullshit like the Detective's Authority as being true, you might as well accept magic since it's the exact same thing.

To use another D&D analogy:

Player: "Alright, time to roll up a wizard character...hey wait, GM, can I play a psionics character?"
GM: "No! Psionics is bullshit! It totally ruins the spirit of the game."
Player: "Hey, come on, it's all just fantasy right?..."
GM: "But it's not that kind of fantasy. Oh, and no flintlock pistols. Guns are stupid, we all fight with swords in this campaign."

>>5691371

With that logic, though, Beatrice could just as easily be (a female) Kanon, assuming for a moment that he and Shannon are indeed separate people.

>>5691361

I said 'explicitly'.

>>5691373
>Although Shannon fits into this role just as well, I feel the existence of a 'real' Beatrice is more compelling, especially considering her appearance in front of Battler back in Ep4.

And it works with the gap hole of a "Mysterious Person X in games 1-4" that the final red truth of Episode 6 created. Although we have to figure out which of the original 17 characters was all a delusion/didn't exist, whether it's via Shkannon or another theory.

>>5691400

First of all, I hate GMs like this, and second of all, that isn't a very good analogy. Psionics and Magic are the same fucking thing, much like the Detective's Authority and the Endless Magic.

>>5691393
Nothing about this technically denies a swap theory, although it is admittedly a little far-fetched. It would just be "Battler had all of those interactions with the person he thought was Shannon."

There is the fact that Shannon was a little baffled and didn't seem sure what precisely what George was talking about when he brought up seeing Shannon and Battler laughing together in this ep, too.

>>5691403
A reverse trap Kanon is fine too.

>>5691411

The only one that really works is Shkanon, but I still like the idea of Maria being a delusion/a magic character.

I mean, just look at her eyes.

>>5691403
>I said 'explicitly'.

Show me where I can find a text-searchable Umineko script and I'll show you.

>>5691430

I know, right? She'd be delicious.

>>5691440
>...but I still like the idea of Maria being a delusion/a magic character.

I came up with this today and posted it, but people just acted like I was stupid...

Bonus Side Effect: It makes Rosa even more moe and pitiable.

>>5691051

Then she can't be the 18th human, and couldn't have said that red text.

She can be the 18th human, and there can only be 17 people. If she's removed from the gameboard between those statements.

>>5691421
Yeah, and when I was a GM, I didn't let players use Psionics in my game.

Mysterious Person X, ladies and gentlemen.

>>5691471
>Then she can't be the 18th human, and couldn't have said that red text.

You have to read "I am the visitor, the 18th human on Rokkenjima!!" less literally. And more like:

"On the assumption that there is 17 people on the island, I add to that number and make it 18."
"However, there are actually 16 people on the island, so even with you included, the number remains at 17."

Sometimes the Red truth is used dramatically. Case in point: Dlanor has said "Die the Great Death" to people who didn't die.

>>5691449
Somebody post the link to those text dumps for this guy. The ones that let you hook up the game BGMs and listen to them at the specific parts of the script.

>>5691457

Jesus, does it ever. Poor Rosa.

>>5691472

That's because you're a stick in the mud, bro.

I'll let my players do whatever so long as it's not too unbalancing.

>>5691482

Blonde she is, but not very bouncy.

>>5691393

Like a lot of theories though, it could fail due to one or two details.

The most prominent being Battler clearly saw Beatrice on the gameboard, and didn't not recognise her as being Shannon, even though her "disguise" was incomplete since she was wearing a suit/skirt and not a dress. I think he would have noticed if Shannon looked exactly the same face-wise.

I did kind of think that it's possible the older Beatrice survived the fall through a loophole(the corpse wasn't her), and both her and Shannon were "Beatrice".

>>5691502

Then how does this destroy Erika? You can't tell me it doesn't. That much is obvious.

>>5691502

That's really going out on a limb and doesn't make a lot of sense. That wasn't something put in there for comical effect, it was something that had a specific meaning and was declared in Red, meaning it has to be true.

There was no "under the assumption". She outright said she'd be the 18th. Can you imagine all the loopholes we could find otherwise? Oh this red was only true UNDER THE ASSUMPTION that Battler touches himself at night.

>>5691482

Kanon in Beatrice mode.

And isn't convenient that the Mysterious Person X in games 1-4 who was Beatrice, trying to take revenge on Battler for his sin, disappeared and was replaced with Erika as the 17th person t the moment the meta-Beatrice gave up her will to fight?

>>5691531

Erika just fainted from the sheer shock of Shkannontrice being true. R07 was too lazy to draw an "Erika fainted" sprite in the TIPS, so he just left it blank.

>>5691537
>>5691537
That's the only way to read it in a way that makes sense. Because otherwise you have:

Red: "There are 18 people on this island."
Red: "There are 17 people on this island."

Which is a contradiction. Unless one person was removed from the island in the 0.5 seconds between the two statements, but that's just silly (and makes no sense since the game board was paused).

>>5691550

I noticed that too. Beatrice might not always be on the gameboard.

At the same time, it doesn't resolve the 17/18 thing at all.

There's still also room for tricks like coming to and from the island; it's a storm but for example if the underground passage to Kuwadorian actually led off the Island...

Wouldn't somebody on a boat or something just off the island (like even a few inches) count as not being on the island?

>>5691531
>Then how does this destroy Erika? You can't tell me it doesn't. That much is obvious.

She was destroyed by the fact that she lost the duel, and was shot by a bullet. She was just staggering and bleeding up to Battler and Beato to make a final dramatic statement, and then dropped dead after delivering it.

>>5691573

But she DID get removed. That's the whole point. It might not have happened right away because of DRAMATIC IMPERATIVE, but the game ends on that note anyway.

They could also be speaking about different games. Either way, it HAS to send Erika away, since she disappears. If not that, what makes her disappear?

>>5691587

Then she'd be "dead", not "erased".

>>5691584

Yes, it's kind of a cheap trick but if they keep it reasonable, no less so than DID.

>>5691584
Possibly.

Until one of the witches denies it in Red ("No one off the island has had any direct physical effect on the events of this tale"), which I think 07th Expansion will have to do in order to discount all sorts of loopholes.

>>5691605
The bullet of the duel was a magical concept destroying bullet. From the TIPS:

>The emotions of the duelers are loaded into it, and if the bullet grazes any part of the body, the concept of the target will be denied without exception.

>>5691587

Also, the duel was pretty much entirely symbolic, like most duels in Umineko. If "that shot" erased her, it had to be because of the context of the red that was loaded into the gun.

Erika shot a bullet saying she was the 18th person.
Beatrice shot a bullet saying there were only 17 people on the Island.

If Erika had won, it would have meant 18 people on the island, and she could say.

Beatrice and Battler own, and she was erased; with the statement "there are 17 people on the Island". The bullet was LITERALLY that statement, loaded into the gun as red and shot. And that bullet erased her.

I don't see why this doesn't make sense to you. It might not be correct, but it makes sense.

>>5691573
Kanon and Shannon are one and the same
Kanon lacks a real body as he shares Shannon's.

If you count Kanon and Erika you end up with 18.
If you count Erika and not Kanon you end up with 17.
They are both right depending on how they count.

That or
There are 18 humans on the island
Erika's truth about herself is how she washed up on the shore dead.
She is undenyably a human, but as a corpse there are still 17 people.

Anyone else got one?

>>5691618

That was for Shannon and Kanon's battle. It said specifically that they loaded the Red into the guns at the end.

>>5691599
To restate my assertion: "Erika disappeared at the end of Episode 6 because of being hit by a concept-destroying bullet in the duel about closed rooms, not because of the final Red Truth "Even if you do join us...there are 17 people. "

I'll shit bricks if they never explain this, like the glitch on the computer in Ever 17.

Wouldn't be surprised if that's where he got the idea.

>>5691640

The "Magic Destroying" element in the guns WAS the red truth. She was denied by the red truth.

Remember in Ep 3 when Eva Beatrice disappeared to reveal Eva?

They wouldn't let something so important happen due to *a bullet*. All of these scenes have been fought out with logic, wordplay and tricks. If they could just win the duel by shooting at her until she dies, what kind of victory would that be, and what would it prove?

Come on.

>>5691642
What are you talking about

>>5691573
Just a note here, but the word used by Erika and the word used by Battler+Beatrice was not the same. So the red truths don't contradict as long as there's a conceptual difference between the two terms.

>>5691636
No, as you can see, existence-denying bullets were used in the duel of Beatrice and Erika as well.

>>5691682

Vague spoilers but,

in Ever 17, during pretty much all the routes, the Life Readings on LeMU fluctuate for a few seconds. There's a generic FMV that also displays, no matter what, "Lebenreaktion: 1".

It's one of those slightly unsettling things about Ever 17 that nevers gets explained, though was still in some ways key to the mystery as a whole.

>>5691716

She wouldn't get hit by them if the red didn't "stick". That's the whole point. It's a metaphorical battle.

It's just like if you get stuck with a truth you can't refute, you lose. Since they both fired reds; one of them was a sure hit.

You're thinking in terms of "Damage/Hit Points" instead of "To Hit/AC", or something like that.

The bullets don't even fire in straight lines, or anything like it. They twist and spiral. Presumably, they only hit if a truth is completely effective. Otherwise what would be the point? Someone could just get a lucky shot and it'd be over. Sorry, but that's retarded.

>>5691743

Nope. They were firing guns filled with one magic bullet.

>>5691640
>>5691673
She was denied by a truth, but not the truth of 17 people.

She was denied by this truth about the rules of the duel.

She failed to beat the "Fantasy" explanation of Beatrice, and thus died.

>>5691717
Don't worry about the spoilers, I've played it like 4 times I just didn't remember.

And I thought it was kind of explained? Wasn't it just Chami or Coco or blick winkel? I'm pretty sure they hinted at which one it was - and just never gave a completely in-your-face explanation but answered subtly?

I havn't read it in a long time so maybe I'm wrong, but I was pretty sure they did answer it, just not bluntly.

>>5691716

Here we go.

It becomes an arc of BLUE TRUTH.

Using the guns is basically "shooting to kill" with the truth.

>>5691784
Continuing.

>>5691784
Well, Zepar and Furfur were obviously lying, seeing as Beatrice shot Erika at the end of the closed room duel, and Erika not only didn't die instantly, but managed to get up and challenge Battler and Beato to a final duel to ascertain the real truth about herself which, surprise surprise, involved confirming the person count.

>>5691793
The point here is, Erika wasn't denied by the red truth of "You don't exist so there's only 17 people," but Beatrice's blue truth of "It was magic lolololol" that Erika failed to counter.

>>5691743
I always figured if that wasn't the case.

They both shot at once
Erika's red missed because it was false
Beato and Battler's red hit because it was true

The only thing different here however is how Erika was able to shoot an incorrect red, previously people choked whenever they tried to claim incorrect stuff in red, but then they didn't have guns either for that matter.
I guess that instead of choking mid sentence, with the guns the reds simply missed instead.
But honestly, the duel doesn't make enough sense for me to be sure.

I don't see why the Shkanonfags are so reluctant to get rid of Erika. It's not like the theories are incompatible.

>>5691847
If she isn't real then she can't be "added" and they can't welcome her as one.
It has nothing to do with ShKanon.

FUCK.
>18 humans
>17 people

THE PEOPLE AT GAMEFAQS ARE SMARTER THAN YOU GUYS, GODDAMN.
Sage because I'm not contributing anything.

>>5691873

Trust me, it does, since the theory has been used to deny Shkanon before.

>>5691842
I still say the two final red truths of EP6 had nothing to do with the duel, or Erika's death/existence-denial.

The narration explicitly says that, when Erika staggers over to say that stuff, "the duel is already decided."

>>5691769

>>5691842
Erika's red was not incorrect. Humans!=people.

>>5691892
What did they "discover" now then?
How the japanese characters behind their reds differ?
Old news friend, and I can tell you that gamefaqs might just be lacking in the understanding of Japanese.
And don't come here with the "public graze" thing.

>>5691633

But then she'd be the 19th human there due to dead Kinzo, not 18th.

I think it's just due to her irrelevance. She's a "human", but she's actually just a prop. A random human completely irrelevant to the game, not a master detective whose actions change the course of everything. Unlike everyone else there, her presence or absence is inconsequential, so, even though she's a "human", she isn't a "person" to the game.

>>5691901
I believe in Shkanon and I don't think Erika exists. Both were pretty obviously the implication.

>>5691908

But she wasn't fully denied. They could have found Bernkastel and have her fix her(if Bern could be bothered). The reason Bern loaded that truth was because she knew it would deny her, which would be a less painful end than what Bernkastel would have in store for her.

>>5691892

Yeah, I guess a dead human is still a human. But you wouldn't consider it a person.

Given the result in the TIPS is that Erika is presumed dead in the accident, I'm guess that's the theory that makes the most sense.

Erika's body washed up on the store. Bawww.

Why did Beatrice say she doesn't mind though? That makes sense under the Shkannontrice theory. Unless it's that she didn't mind revealing the exact number of people, thus making that theory that was fed to us during Ep 6 unlikely, also revealing something about her heart.

>>5691954
Erika's denial plus Shkannon, as people have discussed, opens up a Mysterious Person X slot, so there's that.

>>5691943
Not necessarily. Who can you really assign a number to? If there are 19 humans and two of them are dead, then it still works. Erika merely assigned herself as the 18th human. Kinzo could be human #19 or human #1 for all we know.

Even so, there are 17 people LIVING in Rokkenjima.

>>5691943

Was Kinzo's body on the Island? I didn't think it was. Maybe it doesn't count if he's buried?

Maybe for the 4th game, a similar trick was used. However, there's no guarantee his body was on the island for these games.

Unless it's correct, and Kinzo's body is counted, and we're right back to Shkannontrice.

>>5691945

Thank you for being intelligent, Anon.

Pony forever.

>>5691970

Yeah, that's true. Well spotted.

>>5691970

Kinzo was there before her in any situation though, so she can't be counted as the 18th if everyone else was there first. She'd be the 19th.

Reposting "Black Pony" -

I had the theory a while ago that she faked her own death to escape from the island. Nowhere was it stated in red that 1) That Beatrice was dead. Beato said in reference to the corpse, "It's definitely dead". NOT that the corpse was her and 2) The dead had to apply to that moment of time. Real world Beatrice could have been killed much later on, even just in that game.

It seems weird to show us that in detail if it had no significance. I suppose it could be seen as a troll. But she was "set free" by her death.

People have speculated the same thing about the baby that was dropped off the cliff too. The way I see it, Nanjo knew were Kuwadorian was and saw the young Beatrice regularly. Nanjo seems to be of fairly sound mind - would he really just stand by while Kinzo keeps a prisoner? Kinzo is much too frightening to do something directly. I think Nanjo set up a trap on the cliff face, had someone grab Beato on the way down(since Rosa didn't see her falling directly) and had managed to source a recently passed away corpse which he smashed against the rocks. Rosa could also have misremembered any element of that, that wasn't in red.Beatrice could simply have gone missing, and she later found her dead on the rocks, giving Nanjo plenty time to swap the dress(remember that Beato said she didn't want to wear that dress any more). From that moment onwards, Beatrice's "consciousness" was no longer with her, as she no longer had to be Beatrice.

There has to be a reason why they made a point of Nanjo in specific knowijng of the place.

Unfortunately it does says the true master's age is 19. But that doesn't necessarily have to be Beatrice or they'd have said it outright. It could be someone not even on the island, like Amakusa. Ep 7 asks "By who's will is this being repeated"?

Is there a possibility for a Pony+Doubletrice combo?

>>5691974

Well, Kinzo's body wasn't shown in that episode, but previous episodes showed that his body was on the island. I don't see why his position would arbitrarily change in later ones.

I had way more typed out to this, then downtime, I got tired of waiting and unfortunately lost the reply.

Basically, for me, it resolves a couple of different things.

Mostly;

1) Beato wearing the suit instead of the dress(and getting recognising by Battler regardless of this difference)
2) Battler not recognising Beato, despise her being someone on the island,
3) Beato matching the portrait(Battler would not be mistaken)

Note how the "second" Beatrice that Rosa said she "didn't need this dress anymore". That's why the Beatrice that appears on the gameboard doesn't have it.

However something happened between then and now that made that Beatrice want to be Beatrice again. What is it?

Note that the Beatrice we get in Episode 6 is similar to the one Rosa met - in that they're both "young", blank slates who remember nothing of being Beatrice.

What's the important difference here? Battler.
And who commited a sin so many years ago that's central to the mystery? Battler.

At some point, Battler came into contact with the second Beatrice, and said something to her. Battler didn't think anything of it, but Beatrice who was left emotionally scarred by her childhood as Kinzo's pet took it to heart. Of course - Beatrice was nearly as old as his parents.

This resolves something else - if the "Take my blonde hair" is being said to Shannon, who's saying it? I think the "take this soul and split it" could be a Red Herring - in reality this is Beatrice saying they both become Beatrice. Note how in episode 6 we are presented with TWO BEATRICES - and surprise surprise, one of them originates from the Beatrice Rosa met, at least in theory - it's the Beatrice trying to "regain her power" after being thrown off the cliff.

>>5691997
I guess you could say Person X + Shannon combo made Beatrice, rather than Shannon + Jessica, but that seems weird to me.

>>5691997

If Jessica is actually evil, responsible for the murders, and in love with Battler, then yes.

>>5691901
>Trust me, it does, since the theory has been used to deny Shkanon before.
But it contradicts the reds.
Are you honestly saying that they "Even if you welcome you (no one) there are 17 people hurr"?

The dead body shore thing is a lot more likely. >>5691633

The "true Beatrice" is actually both of them. The "moe" Beatrice represents Shannon, and the older Beatrice represents the one that fell off the Cliff. This Beatrice is before she met Battler. Besides Battler's "Sin", something might have happened to that Beatrice to make her that way, the "1000 years" or similar.

The Beatrice we are being presented with, aside from being a Manifestation of the game's rules, is probably Shannon. The woman in the picture could be the original Beatrice. The original Beatrice may be responsible for the murders - as vengeance for being held captive for Kinzo. Battler had something to do with that.

This has already been alluded to when we saw the "Young" Beatrice back in Ep3 - and further alluded to in Ep5 with the phonecall - someone who had gone off a cliff, might have survived.

Note how this resolves a couple of Dine's rules, older Beatrice is doing it for revenge, not for love, and this Beatrice is not a servant. On the grand scale of things, we've already been introduced to the real culript early on in the story(at the start of 3/8, before the half way mark at least).

What am I saying? Basically the "true" Beatrice we know, that loves Battler, is Shannon, but the game is repeating according to the original Beatrice's will - which is a part of Shannontrice too.

Or perhaps even better - that woman was the "Beatrice" but was just a host, not a true incarnation, since Kinzo trapped Beatrice's soul in her. The old Beatrice is kind of like Ciel in a sense, having her own consciousness and will. She is not part of the "Beatrice" entity, the "Older Beatrice" in 6 is more symbolic(but also alluding to two "Beatrices"), but IS the culript, doing it for revenge. The "Take my blonde hair" - the "Fake" Beatrice has blonde hair - and of course she never wanted to be Beatrice to begin with. So she passed this role onto Shannon.

>>5692009

That's exactly the kind of trick they like to use, though. After all there wasn't a need for Erika to wash up on the shore either.

Also; Erika probably wasn't dead at the start of the game, whereas Kinzo was. That could count somehow too.

Shkanzotrice + Jessitrice + Erika-doesn't-exist + Erika was Battler's girlfriend (imaginary) + Kanon is the 0 on the roulette + Pony

All are correct
What do you say to this, anon?

>>5691954
>Given the result in the TIPS is that Erika is presumed dead in the accident, I'm guess that's the theory that makes the most sense.

Wait, what? Where are you getting this from?

Later we'll find out the numbers were being counted in Base 11.

>>5692061

Finished the main part last night.
Finished Teaparty and ?????

Good new additional tracks as always, "Ruriair" being a new favorite of mine.

Didn't feel the pacing was as good as Ep5. Ending was fine. Nothing much was added.

I knew Erika was a sadistic-bitch, but I started compiling a list of where people would say "around here is when I wouldn't forgive her"

Think it was either here or that "JUST KIDDING☆"

Explain how Episode 6 can make sense with Erika not existing on the gameboard.

>>5692018
>>5692025
If a real Beatrice exists and is influencing the game, she's the baby that Natsuhi dropped off the cliff nineteen years ago, not Beatrice II.

>>5692125
Erika counts as a body that went into Battler's guestroom. So either she exists or is supposed to be somebody else.

>>5691993
I interpret this as:

Erika did exist, but they're denying her existence with the '17 people truth' because someone else on the island doesn't exist (Shannon, Kannon, Maria, whoever). This denies Erika's existance, even though it's a "mixture of truth and lies" from the present overwriting the truth of the past, just as Erika tried to do to Natsuhi in EP 5.

>>5692144
>>5692173

Why do you say that? I gave a couple of ways Beato II could make it out of that. Anything that's not drowned in red text has a way out.

I think Shannon being on the island when the Beatrice we know met Battler is a red herring. I think Shkanon is wrong and that Kanon is Beatrice. Remember that Kanon came to the island around the same time that Beatrice was created, and Kanon's past has yet to be revealed. We do also know that Kanon does act weirdly when he first meets Battler and is often the one who has to be the one pretending to be Beatrice for Maria and being the one closest to Kinzo except for maybe Genji.

>>5692186
The true ruler of the island is 19. That's the only way the age will match up.

>>5691970
>Erika merely assigned herself as the 18th human
>Kinzo could be human #19 or human #1 for all we know.
This doesn't cut it.

She didn't "assigned herself as the 18th human", she introduced herself, therefore she would be added on top of whatever the number was before.

>>5692173
This theory is detestable to me because I want to believe our Erika existed, but:

"Beatrice II is the culprit of EP 6 and existed on the island. She heard about Erika falling off a pleasure boat on the radio or something, just like the adults did, and took on that name and identity in order to infiltrate the family meeting and carry out her plot of revenge. Thus, the name "Erika" could have referred to Beatrice II.

>>5692220
Hey, Erika exists, just not on the gameboard.

>>5692173
I want Erika's body to count in my guestroom, if you know what I mean.

Really, do you know what I mean? Because I don't.

>>5692220
And it's supposed to be believable that a 30 year old so so woman manages to disguise herself as a girl in her teens?

>>5692251
>And it's supposed to be believable that a 30 year old so so woman manages to disguise herself as a girl in her teens?

for Japanese women, this very possible.

>>5692242
Personally I still believe Erika did exist on the gameboard, with the reasoning of:

>>5692177

>>5692251
You mean you cant picture any of the Umineko milfs doing it?

>discussion
>not Shkannon shit
>actually about something remotely worth talking about

finally

>>5692323
Shhhhhhhh..! The Shkanonfags will hear you!!

>>5692205

How do you know that's Beatrice?

Remember in Episode 7, it asks by who's will is this story really being repeated?

>>5692328
too late

>>5692268

That's too fucking jammy a move to use in a duel.

>>5692339
Because not only was that the screamingly obvious implication, but who the fuck else could possibly be 19? The logical extension would be that the actual "true master" ends up being someone else completely new out of nowhere, which would be ridiculous at this stage.

>>5692339
You're right but..

You come from the future?

>>5692339
> Remember in Episode 7, it asks by who's will is this story really being repeated?
The readers are the culprits.

>>5692357
Also, it's not like your theory is dismantled if you swap out the 30-year old Beatrice II with a 19 year-old Beatrice III. If anything, it makes it more plausible.

>>5692359

The promo description thing says that.

>>5692357

It could be someone completely unknown, or seemingly irrelevant like Takano in Higurashi.

It's fine as long as they aren't the actual culript. It's more of a fantasy side thing, anyway.

I mean come on, they threw Featherine in, she wasn't alluded to and has a huge impact on everything.

How are people having so much trouble figuring out "Even if you join us, there are only 17 people."?
The entire episode was pretty much dedicated to showing Kanon doesn't exist. In the original 4 games there were 18 people, but Kinzo being dead brought it down to 17.
Erika joined the game as the visitor, the 18th person on Rokkenjima. However, ep 6 reveals that Kanon = Shanon, so now that we know Kanon doesn't exist, the number is back down to 17. "Sorry, but even if you join us, there are only 17 people."

>>5692356
In a witch's duel, the more twisted the logic, the better.

>>5692399

Beatrice III wasn't really alluded to in the same manner though, at least until the flashback in Ep. 6

Also, wouldn't someone have noticed that Beatrice looked that young in the portrait? Battler did look that she looked more youthful than many people in portraits, but not his age.

Accept the DID
Accept the DID

>>5692405
If Kanon doesn't exist, who did Jessica bring to the School Cultural Festival?

>>5692405
We don't have trouble figuring it out. The implication is obvious. The thing is, we actually look at context.

>>5692405

We already discussed this on length in here, if it's still up:

>>5689370

>>5692430
Shannon. Or no one

>>5692452

Err,

>>5678456

>>5690442
It was obvious that Beatrice is Shannon.
The whole thing about spider basically gave it away.
Witches come from the western culture and the only reason why Beatrice is afraid of them is because of Shannon.
She broke the seal and knew about the old legend and somehow this went into her Beatrice personality.

>>5692391
>The readers are the culprits.
Then the only one who is going to die in it is George, and in a horrible fashion that takes 3 hours to read. The rest of the crimes will be nothing but rape, and to make it worse nothing is sacred and even the meta world characters will be raped.

>>5692422
There are plenty of allusions to Beatrice III through the games. Kinzo basically confirms in EP5 that Natsuhi's baby was supposed to be the next Beatrice. There's the flashback in Kuwadorian in EP3 which couldn't possibly be Beatrice I or II.

And by the same token, wouldn't people notice that she's, oh, a 40ish year old woman rather than someone around 20? The issue goes both ways.

>>5692522
> Kinzo basically confirms in EP5 that Natsuhi's baby was supposed to be the next Beatrice

How exactly? I'm not being facetious.

Remember kids.

Nothing in umineko is what it seems. Cuz odds are no one is close to the truth.

>>5692988

I am truth.