/jp/ - Otaku Culture

She's lawful good.

Neutral good would be willing to sacrifice a few.

>>5683237

True Neutral

>>5683243

Chaotic Neutral

/jp/ - shitposting/general

>>5683257

Chaotic Good

>>5683263

Neutral Good

>>5683243
Dem proportions, what the christ.

Also, none of these are right.

This whole fucking thread is reported. I am mad.

Dammit, the fact that you learned how to make alignment motivationals doesn't mean you can do it. Every single one of these is wrong, and that's a feat.

>>5683286
Yuyuko is not evil. She is good aligned, according to the Yama.

>>5683286

True Neutral, erring into Chaotic

>>5683301

Chaotic Chaotic.

>>5683305
>Okuu
>not Chaotic Evil

1 out of 9 is right, though.

>>5683316
True chaotic wouldn't be You Mad from Tenshi in SWR.

>>5683322
You think Okuu is evil?
Excuse me?

>Motivators
Reported.

Chaotic Insane

EPIC WIN

>>5683339
Utsuho was objectively the most evil villain amongst Touhou final bosses. She wanted to restore the underground hell conquer the surface world, the rest of them were only making trivial mischief.

>>5683322
Okuu isn't chaotic evil in any way. She just wanted to introduce the fire she loves so much to the outside world... nothing evil about that. You like showing things you love to people, right?

>>5683352
How is Kanako evil? She was just expanding her territory through establishing herself as more beneficial to Gensokyo than Reimu's useless shrine.

>>5683364

She KNOWS she would cause untold devastation and countless deaths.

She finds this BENEFICIAL, since she works in HELL ITSELF.

>>5683357
Objectively the most evil character is Eirin. She's got confirmed kills.

Byakuren is chaotic evil.

>>5683370

She's still greedy and doing it all for her own power base.

>>5683357
Yeah, but she wasn't doing it to be evil. Intent matters for a lot.

>>5683371
>Utsuho
>smart enough to know people die when they are killed
Haha, no.

>>5683372
Confirmed kills don't make you evil, they just make you badass enough to take on 8 protagonists in the same story.

Byakuren is not lawful good

She is chaotic good

>>5683372

Mokou spent 300 years on a warpath killing literally every living creature she came across.

In canon.

It's like I'm really on /tg/

>>5683371
Former hell. The underground has not been hell for a long, long time. It's just a really big cave now, really.

>>5683378
She was only consolidating her power because that's the most efficient way to improve others' lives.

>>5683378
You could say the same about any religious group; lawful evil is more for private doom cults (business) than public ones (religion and politics.)

>>5683388

still true neutral now.

>>5683388
She was going through some tough times, okay? She became a nihilist right after that.
>>5683384
Tenshi confirmed for killer.

>>5683385
Byakuren isn't chaotic, chaotic is random and unpredictable doing unwanted things when they are least expected. She probably isn't lawful either, because lawful requires pushing your ideals onto others like an asshole.

I, for one, like this thread. tnx op.

>>5683395

You think Okuu cares about that? She reignited the furnaces, in her mind, that means they're back in business.

>>5683398

Are you trying to say the Pope isn't the most Lawful Evil character alive?

>>5683404
>nihilist

>>5683364
Not when it's going to cause a problems. I like jacking off, doesn't mean I'm going to run out and show everyone on the streets! I'd be see as the bad guy and tossed in jail with another troublemaker who likes rape. Get what I'm saying?

The fact that she knows it'll devastate a lot of shit, she still wants to do it. True evil in my book.

>>5683388

Where in canon is this?

>>5683409
The current pope is.

The Catholic church as a whole, when viewing objectively throughout all its history, would be true neutral. Some popes were chill bros who humped every female in the vatican and went on hunting trips with the guys.

and now, go and laugh at my spelling.

>>5683406
>unwanted things where they are least expected
Helping youkai when you're a youkai exterminator is expected and desired now?

D&D alignment is accurate.

>>5683439
That's subjective; of course your actions aren't going to be desirable to someone who broke into your home just to assault you.

>Touhou storylines in a nutshell

>>5683406

"Don't agree with my ideal? THEN YOU DIE FUCKING DIE IN THE PIT OF HELL"

>>5683409
Look. Okuu wanted to burn the surface to jump-start the furnaces. That's it. The fact that a lot of people would die doesn't matter, Okuu doesn't know/care/understand that.

>>5683449
No shit, law is subjective to society. She went against her society. She was punished for it.

If you're going to make alignment posters of Touhou characters, at least try to avoid using fanon.

>>5683428

http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Cage_in_Lunatic_Runagate:_Chapter_4

>For the first three hundred years, other people hated me, and I was a sad creature who only caused trouble to myself and those around me if I didn't stay in hiding.

>>>The next three hundred years I spent harboring a grudge against this world, and was able to preserve the faintest sense of identity by immediately dispatching anything that crossed my path, youkai or otherwise.

>For the next three hundred years the youkai in the area couldn't hold my interest anymore, and I lost all motivation towards anything, living out a boring existence.

>But during the next three hundred years, I was finally reunited with my immortal archrival, and we discovered the joys of killing each other over and over.

>>5683453
That's Shikieiki, and most lawful goods for that matter. If you want to chill with the good side then chaotic is where it's really at.

All Byakuren did was resist Reimu's attempts to re-seal her.

>>5683461
No, she just wanted to share her precious flames with all the new friends she was going to make. Quit trying to make that out as evil.

>>5683469
haha

>>5683470

Mokou: the only one chaotic evil character in touhou.

>>5683483
I'm not. I'm arguing the opposite.

Parsee: Chaotic Troll

>>5683476

>That's Shikieiki, and most lawful goods for that matter

Shikieiki is the most absolutely neutral neutral in existence.

She has only one job: to accurately scan and judge a human's life. Those who are Evil, those who are Good, and even those who believe they are in-between (they are not, merely less good and less evil) are all equally sent to their destinations.

Shikieiki is not some tyrant over souls. She's a mechanism in the afterlife which has been pre-recorded since the first living thing died.

Okuu is just true neutral.

you know, like all animals.

>>5683496
She got better.

Lawful good: I'm going to kick your ass because you're different from what I expect.

Neutral good: a pretty cool guy.

Chaotic good: fuck all that drama, let's just chill out and be cool to each other.

Lawful neutral: plays by the book, even when it causes pain.

True neutral: a little bit of everything, which includes you don't like.

Chaotic neutral: stability is boring, let's make it more fun.

Lawful evil: conquest and domination, crush all who oppose.

Neutral evil: they do what they feel like, but not an ass about it.

Chaotic evil: they do what they feel like, and they enjoy being an ass.

>>5683517
That's Tewi.

>>5683476

Did you play Sanae scenario?

Or maybe it was Marisa. Marisa disagrees with her ideals and Byakuren basically says she's a fucking idiot who now needs to be taught a lesson.

Disagree with Byakuren = Getting the shit beaten out of you=Not chaotic at all.

>>5683528
The Yama is not neutral and does not date to the beginning of time.

The Yama has an origin: a holy person was on the verge of attaining enlightenment, just minutes away from an incredibly long period of meditation and asceticism. Then a bunch of criminal thugs broke in and the holy person was murdered with just moments left to go.

The Yama is not neutral: the acts of judgment against sinners come from furious revenge against those who do evil out of selfishness, delusions, and envious malice towards others.

>>5683554
Sanae WAS a fucking idiot that needed to be taught a lesson. Sanae A Bad End = True End.

>>5683537
>Lawful good: I know what is right and what is wrong, i'm going to make your life better and don't you fucking dare oppose me.

>>5683554
>Byakuren basically says she's a fucking idiot who now needs to be taught a lesson.

Well if it's Marisa, she would have a point.

Shiki spends her free time trying to stop people from going to Hell. That's pretty Good.

>>5683575
Sanae A bad end = implied rape.

>>5683582
she is lawful good trying to be lawful neutral.

yes, real life alignment works like that.

>>5683582
Right, lawful good. If you don't listen to her 'helpful advice' she is going to beat the shit out of you.

>>5683537

>True neutral: a little bit of everything, which includes you don't like.

True Neutral is the hardest to define.

There's about three ways to view it.

Above or below good and evil - an animal that cannot judge (aka Neutral Hungry) or a being that cannot understand it (aka Lovecraft Neutral).
Balance the scales - one who keeps Good, Evil, Chaos, and Order in perfect array, and never lets one overpower the other (aka Chaotic Lawful Evil Good).
Flips the scales over - one who plays every role, when given the same situation, might not always respond the same way (aka Neutral Schizophrenic)

brb getting TH12 to play as Sanae and find the bad end

>>5683599
> one who plays every role, when given the same situation, might not always respond the same way

isn't that chaotic neutral?

>>5683597
Oh, come on. This is gensokyo.

>>5683599
The rule of thumb for true neutral would be zero or near-zero displacement from the center.

>You would get along with anybody, but nobody seems to get along with you because they think you're the same as their enemy. Extremists in particular will think this about a true neutral.

>You get along just fine with anybody because you don't pick sides and will treat everyone equally.

>You don't get along with anybody, because as far as you're concerned anyone too far in any direction is not thinking clearly.

>>5683606

No, because chaotics will never play by the rules except in (dire/strenuous/extremely beneficial) circumstances. Schizophrenic Neutral will. Sometimes.

It's like rolling a d8 with an alignment on each side, with them.

>>5683470

I did not know this about Mokou, what a bitch.

Still hot though.

>>5683576
>>5683537

Your definitions have been unduly conditioned by the fact that in a lot of trashy fiction, the characters who are supposed to be "Lawful Good" are depicted as "Good" in name only; they're actually close-minded, idiotic fucktards most of the time.

That's not right, of course. All that Lawful Good means is that you have a PREFERENCE for thinking about the means to your ends - it doesn't preclude lying and it doesn't demand that you enforce your standards on other people.

If you want to see how a Lawful Good character appears when he/she isn't being unfairly represented, you have only to look at Dlanor.

>>5683624
>never
only when it benefits them.

>>5683625

Immortals tend to be insane.

However, if you read the rest of that chapter, you learn that Mokou has come to terms with her immortality (for now) and is trying to relate to humans once more.

>they're actually close-minded, idiotic fucktards most of the time.

And that's exactly why we all love Touhou.

>>5683664
Keine dies.
Shit hits the fan once again.

>>5683662

However, that means they're not serious about it. They'd go to jail, but they wouldn't repent, and would probably break out at the first possible instance. Not so with this style of True Neutral.

>>5683679
Mokou has lots of friends. They'll help her.

>>5683679
Does Keine have any actual relation to Mokou in canon? From playing IN it just seems like Keine wants to protect humans from the protagonists as usual.

>>5683654
This. For me it's more like "do good deeds while thinking about consequences"

>>5683712
The mainstream posterboy of Lawful Good is Batman.

>>5683693
In canon Keine is friend/mother figure to Mokou.

>>5683693

Mokou wants to like humans again but she still has very little contact according to Akyu.

Presumably Keine is just someone she meets now and again, since she's the protector of humans and considers Mokou still human.

>>5683249
lawful delicious, I would hit that vampire girl like the motherfucking fist of the motherfucking north star.

>>5683265

>>5683693
Yeah, they're buddies in canon. Don't remember where it specifically says so, though, or if it's just implied.

>>5683720
well yes. Code of honor? Check. Tries to do something to make Gotham better? Check. Succeeds? whoops.

>>5683744

The Joker would've burnt Gotham to the ground eighty seven ways from Tuesday if Batman hadn't been there.

Lawful good: it doesn't mean lawful nice.

>>5683724
must... not.. say...this...

ah, fuck it.

Neutral AUTISM?

Turns out it's hard to sum up human behavior and psychology in 5 words.

>>5683775

No, I can sum up everyone here in one word:

Autism.

>>5683766
Evil people can be quite nice, really. Just don't get between them and something they want.

>>5683769

She's 1300 years old and spent a great deal of her existence either killing or being killed REPEATEDLY.

She's not autistic, but she probably thinks very differently from a normal human nonetheless.

>>5683788
Good is not nice.
Nice is not good.

You notice how some people in /jp/ whine about every thread ever posted, but don't actually do anything to improve the quality?

That's a sign of autism.

Being nice isn't consistent unless it is deeply ingrained in their personality. People of any alignment can be nice at given times, just just a matter of when and where.

I like this thread and see no need to improve its quality.

>>5683693
>>5683722
>>5683724
>>5683740

Read that linked Cage in Lunatic Runagate chapter.

>It was something that had happened a few years ago. For some reason I wanted to find out everything I could about the smoke coming from that mountain, so I went to talk to someone who lives in the human village.

>She was someone who knew a lot about the history of Gensokyo, and one of the few people who really understands me - the half-beast Keine Kamishirasawa.


She converses with Keine at least occasionally, and believes Keine understands her.

>>5683788
A lawful evil society can be a lovely place to live, or a shit one, depending on many factors. A brutally-enforced meritocracy, for instance.

>>5683798
isn't it stated that she still thinks as normal human?

>>5683826
Brutally enforced meritocracy doesn't sound bad to me. Then again, I'm not a NEET and am fairly highly skilled.

>>5683819
Mokou aside, Kaguya= True or chaotic neutral?

>>5683826
"Meritocracy" or any similar is simply a cover-up name for ruling through force and coups. The ones in charge are either the chosen successors of those previously in charge, or the ones who successfully dislodged them. The word "aristocracy" literally means 'rule by the best,' and an aristocrat would be 'the best' who is ruling.

Examples:
-Soviet Union
-Ancient Rome
-Pre-Meiji Japan
-South American banana republics
-Pretty much any feudalism

For being a bunch of monsters, there sure aren't many evil Touhous.

>>5683846
It doesn't sound bad to me, but that's exactly the point. A lazy fatass with an IQ less than the number of cheeseburgers they eat each day would not enjoy such a society.

>>5683870
true neutral

>>5683883
I'm referring to a genuine meritocracy, where merit is judged fairly by an impartial arbiter. I acknowledge that such a thing is almost certainly impossible, in much the same way as a genuine communist state is likely impossible.

>>5683892
That's the myth about aristocracy/meritocracy. The truth is that such people will be holding power, having attained it through underhanded methods and holding onto it by taxing the commoners' money away and using the taxes to hire more soldiers.

>>5683890
Yukari beat the shit out of all the evil youkai before she founded Gensokyo.

>>5683890
Rumia, and her ilk. Most youkai would be fairly evil, but they aren't important.

>>5683870

Before Mokou: Kaguya just wants to live her immortal life.

After Mokou, before IN: Kaguya has found something to entertain herself, but she still doesn't want to die or kill. Mokou is gleefully exempt, because their fights will always end the way they started.

After IN: Kaguya wants to do interesting things. Fights with Mokou optional.

>>5683917
She had them all killed on the moon in order to set up a stable Gensokyo and rule over it for 1000 years. Oho, conspiracy.

>>5683915
Exactly. Genuine meritocracy, genuine socialism, genuine free market, genuine libertarianism, genuine liberation from selfishness, genuine rule of personal responsibility; all are myths purported only by the dishonest and followed only by the foolish and naive.

>>5683922
again true neutral.

>>5683947
They're formed out of the fears of humankind, in a very literal sense. Their existence is based around fucking humans over. I think that counts as evil.

>>5683940
And today's lesson is:

There's no difference where you live, you are pretty much fucked anyway.

>>5683940
>>5683975

Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.

- Winston Churchill

>>5683975
You're fucked if you buy into the deception of there being some kind of heaven-on-earth philosophy that will expel all evils and deliver total prosperity.

You're fine if you realize this is all a bunch of bullshit and act accordingly.

>>5683962
>>5683922
No.

>>5683962
evil creature is one who has a choice and decides to be... well, evil.
Rumia attacks people because "it's just the thing youkai do" - she is too stupid to take the other option.

>>5684009
Rumia attacks people because everyone told her she needs to play danmaku or she'll lose her powers. Same as almost all youkai in modern Gensokyo.

Rumia's about as smart as a dog at best so yeah. But the other low level youkai are a lot more lucid and I'd grant them sapience.

>>5683991
>- Winston Churchill

Winston Churchill was booed out of office after the war, and this was the time when the British empire went into decline - largely due to Churchill's 'fuck you' policy towards the colonies.

There are worse governments than true democracy, but 99% chance you wouldn't want to live under one. In the US democracy would mean being oppressed by protestantism, in Europe democracy would mean being oppressed by the catholic church.

You're probably thinking of the constitutional republic, in which laws are made by an elected body and unconstitutional actions are struck down even if they hold majority support.

>>5684050
She's literate fuck you your dog can't read

Rumia isn't particularly stupid, she's just lazy because she doesn't really need much (like a fairy) and has a simple mind due to lack of goals and consequences (like a child.)

>>5684073
Rumia is literate.
Sanae is a good girl.
Cirno is smart.
Alice is moe.
Aya is considerate towards others.

>>5684138
>Cirno is smart.

Really, most of the Touhous are in the Neutral spectrum of the alignment chart. Most of the end bosses do tend to be in the Evil alignment, but after they get their asses beaten, fall into the Neutral alignment, some of them even falling into the Good category.

>>5684138
Aya is considerate towards Cirno who is smart :3

>>5684009
Rumia doesn't attack people.

While she acknowledges it's her raison d'etre, she almost immediately says she can't be bothered to actually do it.

>>5684161
She likes playing danmaku but it's kinda hard to attack people when you can't see shit. Where's that picture of Rumia with nightvision when you need it

>>5684174
>Rumia with nightvision

another reason why bringing science into Gensokyo is a bad idea.

>>5684194
Show nightvision to Rinnosuke. Laugh when he accidentally gets sucked halfway into the outside world again and kicked out almost immediately.

Now you are applying Shin Megami Tensei' s Law/Neutral/Chaos alignment system to Gensokyo.
Manually.

>>5684073
Really? I thought Cirno and Mystia were the only literate ones out of the 9 squad

>>5684397

Mystia is canon illiterate, read Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red.

Bear in mind that we're talking about reading Japanese; kanji literacy is something that goes through high school. In western languages teenagers study the finer points of how words and punctuation are laid together, in eastern languages they study a more complicated set of writing characters used to avoid complicated punctuation and grammar.

This makes it harder to pick up in the beginning, so becoming functionally literate would require about a decade spent in close contact with the human village for any youkai that doesn't have the luxury of being able to acquire literacy elsewhere.

>>5684498
Bear in mind we're talking about magical beings born with innate powers much more complicated than reading ability.

So far every youkai has been shown to know written language except HURR DURR Mystia can't read because she can't be bothered to decipher tiny characters. It's safe to assume they know it by default.

>>5684693
No, it's just that most well-known Touhou youkai are very old by human standards; if you've lived for 500 years then picking up Japanese writing is a small challenge - even Cirno is at least 60, she could have done it as a minor hobby in that span of time.

Mystia being illiterate is consistent with a logical rule of who would read and who wouldn't; she is a seemingly young youkai who lacks the ability to find education. Probably close to 100% of all non-exceptional youkai would be illiterate, it's just that they are not mentioned in canon because they aren't worth noticing.

>>5683554
Byakuren was somewhat hostile to Sanae, because Sanae was fully and decidedly hostile to Byakuren.

Sanae pretty much came as a youkai hunter who simply wants to destroy them, so expecting a different reaction from Byakuren would be a little silly. She wasn't trying to impose her ideals, she was just practicing self-defense and trying to protect those who she cared about.

What's my alignment?

>>5688099
Retconned Nonexistent.

>>5688116

>alignement with motivational thread
>no quote from characters with it

this is the most shittiest use of alignment with motivational i've seen

Shinki isn't retconned unless TH12 has a different explanation of how Makai came about. I haven't played it, but I wouldn't expect this to be the case.

Besides, retcon is short for retroactive continuity. In other words, un-ending things that have ended. Nothing ended in Mystic Square, so there is no need for a retcon.

Stopped reading from Shikieki being "Lawful Good" instead of "Lawful Neutral"

Full retard.

>>5688151

See:

>>5683286

Then see:

http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Imperishable_Night:_Ghost_Team's_Scenario_1

Fuckin' dumbass.

>>5688169

Well Mr. Full Retard, how do you explain Shikieiki being opposed to evil if she is not aligned with good?

Sincerely,
Anonymous

>>5688187
Having a sense of morality does not make you Lawful Good

"Lawful Neutral is called the "Judge" or "Disciplined" alignment. A Lawful Neutral character typically believes strongly in Lawful concepts such as honor, order, rules and tradition, and often follows a personal code. A Lawful Neutral society would typically enforce strict laws to maintain social order, and place a high value on traditions and historical precedent. Examples of Lawful Neutral characters might include a soldier who always follows orders, a judge or enforcer that adheres mercilessly to the word of the law, a disciplined monk.

Characters of this alignment are neutral with regard to good and evil. This does not mean that Lawful Neutral characters are amoral or immoral, or do not have a moral compass; but simply that their moral considerations come a distant second to what their code, tradition or law dictates. They typically have a strong ethical code, but it is primarily guided by their system of belief, not by a commitment to good or evil."

>>5688210

See:

>>5683568

>>5688210
>Having a sense of morality does not make you Lawful Good

Perhaps, but trying to impose this upon others (the primary responsibility of a judge) most certainly is. The alignment is what the code of morality is, and in this case it would be on the 'good' side. Well, if you consider leading an incredibly dull life to be 'good.' Still better than roman catholicism or islam.

>>5688219
a.) that's Tibetan buddhism, not Japanese buddhism
b.) Real-life lore about a religious figure hardly carries over to their Touhou counterpart.
c.) There are multiple yamas in Touhou, that much is canon

>>5688178
one quote woah fantastic, what about the rest, find the quotes

>>5688210

She doesn't "having a sense of morality". She is protector and executive of morality. Yama must believe that "justice for all" is good.

I have serious doubts about Reimu being good, though...

>>5688579
>protector
She isn't a protector. A cop is a protector
She's a judge.

>>5688621
Anon said protector of morality, not people. Eiki rigidly enforces the heavenly code of conduct.

>>5688645
And is therefore lawful neutral

I'm not seeing what's so difficult to understand about this.

>>5688651
job != alignment

>>5688645

That's because everything abides by it.

It's like saying Gravity is Lawful Good because it forces you to stand on the ground.

Shikieiki has no alignment. She's a cog of the afterlife.

>>5688682
No, it's that very reasoning (gravity) that she is lawful neutral. She enforces the universe's laws with complete disregard for anything but the letter of it.

Morality is kinda related to people. Random judge in human world can be lawful neutral. Higher Justice is good to people. That's what most of religions say. She is a part of that Justice. How can she not be good?

Well you can say, "religions are stupid", but Zun took a lot from them, so...

>>5688682
That doesn't mean she will sit on her ass and watch evil people go without a very serious warning.

She pretty much scolded everyone in the error of their ways. She *is* good, even if she is merciless. Her charge requires no less from her.

>>5688718
Buddhism is hardly a religion preaching saintly altruistic goodness to everyone.

It's the most neutral-minded faith there is.

>>5688579
Reimu's on the neutral end of good, sure, but she's definitely in the LG corner. The only time I can think of where she was a total asshole was when she attacked Tokiko and stole her books. And maybe the end of UFO, but that situation WAS seriously fishy from her perspective, and it probably warranted a beating-up just to be on the safe side.

>>5688690
>>5688682
Eiki is not so cold-hearted. She's no machine. She's a nice woman, she only wants the best for you.

>>5688728
I wouldn't go as far as saying it doesn't tell you to be good. Merely that "good things happening to you for being good" isn't some kind of gift or reward for your deeds from an approving God, merely that they were the obvious result of "x begetting x"

>>5688728
It also makes it pretty much useless, in context to society.

If it does not purge you, or makes you a better person, it is worthless. Religions, at least.

>>5688719
Let me refer you back to >>5688210

Scolding people for their deeds or reminding them of Karma does NOT make your alignment Good.

>>5688752
I'd educate myself about buddhism before I went making generalizing claims, if I were you. It's just the "right" thing to do.

>>5688752

Enjoy burning in Hell while I play with Yuyuko in the Netherworld

>>5688728
>Buddhism is hardly a religion
fixed

>>5688159
>Shinki isn't retconned unless TH12 has a different explanation of how Makai came about.

Makai is not a name of a specific place, just a generic term for hell (demon land, or whatever you want to call it). Geez.

Lawful-Neutral-Chaotic
How you do things.

Good-Neutral-Evil
What you want done.

Remember this.

>>5688784
In Touhou, there are several. The Makai you see in TH5 is the same as in TH12.

>>5688784

WROOOOONG!

Makai (lit. "Demon World) is NOT Hell.

Jigoku (lit. "Earth Prison) is Hell. There's also a Former Hell (referred to as Shyakunetsu Jigoku [lit. Blazing Hell]).

Makai is the personal realm of Shinki. She is its creator.

>>5688763
Bro, buddhism is pretty much passive nihilism.

>>5688742
I don't think she is evil (most times at least), but I definitely don't think she is good.

>>5688798
>>5688815
Fine, fine. Let me fall back to ZUN stating outright that the PC98 story is retconned.

>>5688746
Yes, this is obvious if you read her parts in PoFV. Eiki is good, wrap it up.

>>5688854
Once again, see >>5688210
Personal code != Good alignment

She's Lawful Neutral, period. Really no ifs-or-buts about this one.

>>5688853
>ZUN stating outright that the PC98 story is retconned.

Alice remembers Reimu. ZUN is not consistent with himself.

>>5688853
Let me forestall that.
>I generally have no comment regarding
older works. Please ignore it as much as you can in derivative works. :-)
That doesn't retcon anything, though.s

He said strait up it ISN'T.
Provide link or you're wrong.

>>5688853

It's not as an absolute.

At the very least, elements of it remain. Of these
1. Reimu defeated Yuuka
2. Reimu fought Alice
3. Reimu needed Genjii to fly earlier in her life

It's quite possible that Shinki is still the creator-god of Makai. Byakuren having an identical spell card of hers is possibly due to her meeting Shinki during her exile in Makai.

>>5688826
Why not? Most of her fights are either started by the other party or mutually intigated. She's usually fighting for peace/safety/stability for Gensokyo and its human population. I can't think of a time where she hurt someone just to hurt them or for personal gain.

Derivative work = Made by some else
AKA non-canon shit.

>>5688889
>I can't think of a time where she hurt someone just to hurt them or for personal gain.

Every time.

>>5688911

She thought Tokiko was a thief. Not personal gain OR sadism.

>>5688889
Reimu's mere existance is the preservation of the status quo. She would rather have quiet evenings drinking tea/liquor with friends than having to go beat youkia ass.

She is True Neutral.

>>5688906
Touhou is a "official derivative work". And that is what we are discussing here.

>>5688919
Read it again.
She thought Tokiko was a youkai, and she was happily enjoying a book, too!
Reimu stole her books because Reimu is a thief. For personal gain.

>>5688919
>She thought Tokiko was a thief.

No. She thought she's a youkai. That alone is an offense to Reimu.

>>5688961
FOR THE EMPRAH!

Reimu is chaotic neutral, I thought EVERYONE knew this by now.

Everything she does is for personal gain, being "good" for gensokyo is always a side effect.

>>5688868
Hm, ok. That's more nuanced than the conversation had gotten to.

Still seems like a grey area though. Can a judge NEVER be good if they follow the law strictly? Eiki spends most of her time pointing out specific, reasonable bad things people have done and even gives them a chance to correct them before they die and get sent to hell (sometimes with advice, sometimes by shooting bullets at them). It seems driven by a sense of virtuous living, not rules-are-rules.

>>5688954
>>5688961

What? Lawful Good is quite able to be prejudiced. She didn't do it because SHE wanted the books, but because she thought Tokiko shouldn't have them.

>>5688989
She took the books because she feels pleasure from robbing others of their precious things.

>>5688989
No, LAWFUL is quite able to be prejudiced, Good is not. Lawful Good would have had a personal conflict over whether follow law by attacking a youkai, or good by leaving someone who was reading alone.

>>5688961
Well most youkai ARE potentially dangerous beings that thrive off the fear and/or meat of humans.

>>5689010
What about all those lawful good characters who slay innocent monsters without a thought?

>>5689014
So are humans, but you don't see me robbing you for your book you just happen to be reading.

>>5689017
No.

>>5689006
>>5689010

You don't seem to understand how Lawful Good works. Lawful Good characters have overarching rules for themselves. So long as these rules are not broken, they feel they're in the right.

It's entirely possible for one to treat a sentient but non-human race (in this case youkai) as animals, but not abuse them for the sake of abusing them. But it still doesn't mean you'd let a dog tear up a book, especially if you're not fond of dogs.

>>5689031
Correct. No debate.

>>5689031
I don't know why you are responding to me as I wasn't ever talking about some alignments.

Taking a book from a dog doesn't make you lawful good.

>>5689090

But it doesn't exclude you from being Lawful Good either.

The argument is that she's LG. The counterargument against it is how she treated Tokiko. I say that's passable.

>>5689031
>It's entirely possible

Yes, but we're not talking about a hypothetical person, we're talking about Reimu. Reimu treats every race, human or not, with equal disrespect.

>It's entirely possible for one to treat a sentient but non-human race (in this case youkai) as animals, but not abuse them for the sake of abusing them.

On the other hand, you just made a good argument for Yukari being Good.

>>5689097
She was just having one of those days.

>>5689110
Are you saying like, those humans that Yukari gaps into Gensokyo as youkai food are just livestock to her?

>>5689097
>But it still doesn't mean you'd let a dog tear up a book, especially if you're not fond of dogs.

The dog is reading the book. The lawful good character doesn't save the book from the dog, he/she beats the dog first, and then thinks of another way to further abuse the dog: "Hah, let's take these books. Serves you right for trying to defend yourself when I beat you!"

>>5689110
Hey, Reimu has a pretty solid record of good deeds when she's not shooting everyone in sight.

>>5689136
It's more like if a man-sized spider was sitting and reading a book.

>>5689141
>when she's not shooting everyone in sight.
But that's the only time when she actually does anything
Tell me of those "good deeds".

>>5689141
I don't know about the record, but the last time she made a good deed, it was by mistake; she thought what she's doing is looting a treasure ship.

>>5689156
Reimu is not blind and Tokiko is cute doesn't look threatening at all.
Even man-sized spiders are. We call them Yamame.

>>5689031
They have rules for themselves and others, and try to enforce their rules and do not make exceptions. e.g. Good guys always wear white. The lawful good person will always wear white, and not make exceptions for any reason, and will also either force other good characters to wear white or treat them as evil if they do not wear white.

>>5689160
Dunno, read the manga and stuff. You see more of her good nature there.

>>5689198
>Dunno, read the manga and stuff. You see more of her good nature there.
I see it, what a magnificent nature.

>>5689248
Haha, welp, forgot about that part.

So even though Reimu is generally a crusader against a perceived evil the rest of her personality keeps her out of the good row? Is that how it works?

>>5689197
That sounds like it'd be more Lawful Neutral.

>>5689174
>cute
>doesn't look threatening at all

This is Gensokyo we're talking about. The cuter you look, the more threatening you are.

>>5683321
>>5683321
>>5683321
>>5683321

>>5689248
Reimu is true neutral. She might kick your ass for doing evil, she might kick you ass for being chaotic, she might kick your ass just because she felt like it. Just bend over.

Do we know enough about Hong Meiling to guess her alignment?

>>5689741
Lawful Neutral.
She guards the gate.
You try to go through the gate, she fucks you up.
Simple.

>>5689741
Chinese.

>>5689757

She's nice enough to everyone inside it, though. Lawful good?

>>5689741
I'd say lawful neutral. She doesn't care who you are or what you do, as long as you don't break (her master's) rules.

Meiling is a shonen protagonist. Well, she just wishes to be one, but the point stands. Lawful Good.

As for the lawful vs. chaotic debate; Hong Meiling possesses some amount of both good and evil while being neither devoted nor hostile to either. But she both plays by the rules given to her while also ensuring they are enforced under her watch, so lawful neutral.

>>5689869

'China travels all of Gensoukyo on her day off, looking for a strong opponent to defeat in physical combat and begin her own legend. The mountain-leveling oni, the Tengu that outpace the morning light, the incredible Taisui Xingjun itself, all must beware!'

>>5689945
Meiling gets days off?

>>5689958

She bribes Patchiouli to make a clone.

>>5689958
Yeah, sometimes Remilia actually needs the gate to be guarded.

>>5689958

Maybe not days off, but she probably spends a decent part of her time away from the gate keeping in shape.

>>5689958
That would imply Meiling was ever paid in the first place.

>>5689945

'Oi, Meiling, where ya goin'?'

'Just off to find the strongest guys and beat them! Wanna come with?'

'You ain't gotta go nowhere, the Strongest is me!'

'Heh, tell you what, I'll save you for last. But only if you come with.'

'Right!'