/jp/ - Otaku Culture

An emo faggot who make retarded mistakes and the most boring gameboard so far?
He fucking sucks.

>>5675006
>BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWW HE WASN'T MECCHA KAKKOI

>>5675058
Reported for improper use of greentext and general shitposting.

DURP XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

>>5675077
Reported.

More butthurt from /jp/ if you please!

Genius Battler is the only good battler.

>>5675104
Reported for being from /a/.

>>5675131
But I don't browse /a/ you Greater Internet Fuckwad.

>>5675144
Reported for being from /a/.

>>5675153
No matter how many times you repeat it, it doesn't make it true.

>>5675171
Reported for being from /a/.

>>5675173
That's good, squeeze that butthurt out.

I don't think anyone CARES why you're reporting them. That pretty much shows off that you're new around this parts. Report, hide, and be on your way. That way you don't make yourself look like a moron with HURR HURR LOOK AT ME I'M SO COOL IM REPORTAN PPLZ

Also...while Beato isn't my favorite character, fuck Battler for refusing her cookies. I would at least eaten a few and then sent her on her way after complimenting her skills, however bad they may be.

>>5675185
I think he felt somehow similar to after you have sex with a girl and hate her after you cum inside her.
That enormous feeling of hate and disgust made him reject her cookies (or something similar, dunno)

>>5675185
And, you've just hit on why I'm being such a douche.

I just, right now, finished episode 6. I'm pretty mad that shkanon turned out to be true. i mean, if there are 17 people on the island if erika is included, who else could be a ghost?

>>5675205
Erika herself?

>>5675202
>>5675185
>>5675196
>>5675181
Reported.

>>5675209
well, probably. it's probably just ryushiki's trollan, but the way they kept saying kanon and shannon were incomplete humans, and how only one of their relationships could succeed, and the prologue to episode 2 with the mirror shattering into two pieces, and kanon mysteriously disappearing into thin air. it all seems like shkanon to me.

>>5674987

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smelly dumb SHKANON SCUM

>>5675225
Yeah, Shkanon and Erika not existing are both heavily implied to be true. Take one or the other or both or neither as trolling.

The hatred between pro-shkanon and anti-shkanons is lulzworthy. So much rage.

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>>5675243
Dear Lord. What if there are only 15 people.

>>5675243
Erika not existing is retarded.
It will never pass with the Knox detective rule.
Please think properly before you want to deny shkanon. You guys are just making yourself look stupid by coming out with a more retarded theory to deny another 99% confirmed retarded solution.

>>5675257
We do not have to have an alternate theory to know that Shkanon is pure bullshit.

>>5675257
How are Knox's rules going to apply when the only people trying to enforce them are erased from existence?

>>5675251
the possibilities are

16) Kanon
17) Shannon

16) Shkanon
17) Erika

16) Shkanon
17) ?????

>>5675257
Take it up with Erika herself.

>>5675268
>>Shkanon is pure bullshit.
Pure bullshit that come directly from R07's crazy brain, which is more problematic.

>>5675275
It says nothing about her not existing in the games you know.
It's more about her own existence in the meta-world itself, about her as the witch of truth.

Anyways, Erika adds 1 to the population of the island, YOU CAN'T go around this.

>>5675275
Do you have problem reading or something?
She lost and she lost to Battler/Beato. She finally realized how retarded she actually is. How did you interpret that as her talking about her own existence?

>>5675290
What about her as the Witch of Truth? That makes absolutely no sense.

Erika has a terrible truth about herself she must accept which gets alluded to through the WHOLE EPISODE. Battler and Beatrice shoot her with it and Erika gets erased from existence. Pretty straightforward.

>>5675302

I have no problem with accepting ShKanon. But we're reading the words of a master troll, and Ryukishi knows it. Shkanon was too prominent in EP6 to be the end all truth. It's true, but s/he hasn't killed and isnt the masyerpiece.

>>5675302
Yeah the truth about her is that she really is a fabrication, her "true self" is a girl who died drowned.

What you don't seem to understand is that even if Erika died like this in the real world, she can exist in the gameboard since IT'S ONLY A FUCKING GAME.
And she does exist in this game, her presence is clearly enforced in red.

>>5675302
>truth about herself
She is actually not that smart and lost to the incompetent Battler.
Read between the lines dammit.

>>5675313
Ryukishi never did anything that could make me believe he is a master troll though.

>>5675294
"hurp durp as the witch of truth i must go out with honor and grace by forcing this duel that confirms the dramatic hellish real truth about myself that makes dlanor want to protect me......... that i am retarded. totally."

Whatever you say, bro.

>>5675314
>And she does exist in this game, her presence is clearly enforced in red.

Just like Kanon as a seperate entity from Shannon who can also die seperately, right?

>>5675319
Her real body is speculated to have died at the 24:00 of the 2nd day from the bomb blast.
Losing isn't easy for an arrogant intellectual rapist that think she is above everyone else. How about you actually start reading and think about the context of the conversation instead of taking everything at face value.

>>5675342

Lern difference between "person" and "human being"

proof a split personality counts as a "person" according to the red, but not a "human"

>>5675342
There is a difference between a personality "dieing" and having his own name, which is what happen with ShKanon and the personalities being counted in the headcount.

Erika is counted in the headcount.

Anyways, it's simple:
-Erika's name and presence is stated in red countless times so she has to be on the island in some way, she even kills people after all.
Your theory is probably that she is a title or something, right?
BUT, it's stated in red that Erika DIDN'T EXIST before episode 5 and 6.

So, tell me, what changed in episode 5 and 6 that a character could get a new title who could completely change his/her name? One thing that didn't happen in episode 1-4.
So what?

>>5675358
Oh Christ. That was right in there, huh.

>>5675345
It pretty much breaks my head how anyone who cites "context" could seriously think that Erika's truth here is "bawww I'm a loser".

Yeah, Erika's hellish truth that makes her hell equal to Lambda and Bern's is totally that she's just a loser. Dlanor would totally be moved to just want to protect the intellectual rapist's fragile ego. Erika would definitely be talking about accepting the truth that she's a loser after going on and on in the previous closed room duel about how Beatrice humbled her was the one who showed her the way truth really worked in the world without a problem. Battler and Beatrice totally countered her introduction with "sorry, but even if you say you're the detective, you're an idiot" rather than something that addressed her potential to exist in and of itself through the number count.

Whatever you say, bro.

The way episode 6 was wrote makes me think ryukishi was acknowledging that 'someone' or 'some people' had already figured out the truth of the game. The way he said through Featherine/Hachijo that anyone who solves the riddle can become an Endless Witch, and that as each new tale is released, more people would emerge as Endless Witches qualified to write their own tales according to the rules of the game. So, if this line of reasoning is correct, I wonder what kind of theories he was acknowledging. Maybe shkanon?

>>5674990
That scene was sad... Poor Beato...

OK I'm going to delete my crap. One second.
>>5675104
>>5675144
>>5675171
>>5675181
>>5675202

>>5675318
Shmion in the past, ep3, now ep6.

Why do people sitll deny bomb when there's a fucking sound effect in the game folder, even for 1-4, that sounds like an explosion and is called B_LONG?

/rant

>>5675370
>what changed in episode 5 and 6
Beato died.

>>5675410
ShMion was so fucking obvious and such a generic trick, nobody could fall for this.
Everytime you see twins in a mystery, these sort of stuffs happen.

Episode 3 of Umineko was pretty obvious as well.

I was away from internet for a week and I missed ep07 release. Any spoilers?

>>5675414
Beato lived for most of episode 5 so no.

>>5675412
>explosion
Nobody denies it, idiot. Not only bomb can make an explosion, however.

>>5675422
No, she didn't. It was a corpse. Did you even read ep6?

>>5675433
That's just meta-stuff you know.
In the gameboard it was stated in red that except for Erika appearing in the game, nothing changed

>>5675435
Because 'Beato' is a meta-entity, just like Erika.

>>5675383
You are pretty stupid. It isn't about "bawww I am losing to battler" it is what happened after she lost to Battler infront of Bern.

Erika confirming the existence of an 18th person is like her last way to counter Beato/Battler trick. She never would have though that Kanon/Shannon are actually samefagging.

>>5675444
You don't understand.
No matter if she is a title or a person or whatever, Erika APPEARS in the gameboard, her presence is clearly stated in red.
And her presence should logical, plausible, that's how Umineko works.

So tell me, how did someone on the island get a new title just for episode 5 and 6?

>>5675453
Amnesia.
GG mofo I found a way to counter your balls.

Do you guys think that Kakera are real in Umineko? The idea isn't that magical since parallel universes are part many of the more advanced physics theories.

>>5675470
Sure if you forget all the meta-fiction stuff that basically take half of the game.

>>5675447
Just to elaborate on how Erika can win with this argument.
He got 3perfect closed with a fixed number of people.
5dead people confirmed by red6
5 - Hideyoshi, George, Kumasawa, Shannon, and Nanjo
5 - Everyone else except Kanon - Perfectly closed
1Erika
1Battler

Beatrice last red text was Kanon does not exist in this room.

If Erika statement passed she would have won the argument and created another logic error.

MacGyver would have won this game on the first episode.

She never existed, she was a illusion, it's fucking obvious.

>>5675669
She never existed in the real version but she existed in the fictions that were episode 5 and 6.
Learn to fucking meta-fiction, it's fucking obvious.

Erika said she killed 5 people in red.
If she was an "illusion", she could never kill them.

>>5675682
>>5675767
Erika was in all the EPs but dead.

Bern saved her for be her piece in 5 and 6.

>>5675767
That was just Jessica using the title Erika
>ica
>ika
Proof

I'm at the point of the second love test...
Oh god, please tell me the solution to the closed room isn't somthing as stupid as shkanon beeing one person and a beato coming out of the forest to save battle.
And if erika isn't the detective, who is? It should have some hints to it already, if it exists. Or is this a game with no detective since no murder was planned from the first place?

>>5676155
Yeah, I think there's no detective for this one.

>>5674987

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>>5676173
Then is Erika point of view was not to be trusted, and the seals in place, the only reason she would lie about the number of people would be for someone not to be present in the corporeal form? Damn, i dont want to belive shkanon but at this point it seems as the only logical response.

>>5674989

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>>5676248
>Then IF Erika... etc

Was pretty sad when Rudolph starting crying over Battler but the game was fucking boring until it got to Erika fucking murdering people herself then it was pretty good.

>>5675669
What if the truth she realized about herself was how she was the 18th person on Rokkenjima, and not a witch of truth?

It could explain why she supposedly actually fell off the boat in an accident that actually happened.
And how witch Erika simply is no more.

Look, I also denied ShKanon...and then i played EP6.
Sorry guys, but EP6 confirmed ShKanon.

>>5676402
It's useless!.... Its all useless!!

It's possible that EP5 and EP6 are just kakeras in which Erika did make it to Rokkenjima by a miracle and she did exist in those games.

Just like in Higurashi there existed kakeras and which Keiichi never went to Hinamizawa.

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>>5676402

Nothing is confirmed until it is stated in red.

>>5676402
Haven;t played 5 or 6, myself. Was she dead on all of the previous games and her body made up for the missing kannon/shannon since they're the same person?

Anyone know where I can download the EP6 soundtrack? Or do I just use the .ogg files?

People who refer to "gameboards" as being real things still believe in magic.

Why do you still believe in magic at this point? The Meta-World is not real. It cannot be.

I used to really like the Shkannon theory, but now that it's too obvious, I actually don't think it's true anymore. Feels more like a red herring.

>>5676424
But Ryukishi confirmed that Erika was vital to the plot, and by Knox we must be able to guess her presence early on.

If so, where is she?
Take episode 1 for an example, what connection could it have to something that could have been Erika?

>>5676493

Or, if it is true, I don't think it'll play the part that everyone seems to think it will.

>>5676495
Erika is vital to the main plot, aka what the gameboard and the meta-world really are.
But she has nothing to do with the mystery of Rokkenjima, it was stated in red.

>>5676500
>it was stated in red.

No it wasn't. All that Lambda said was that "she had no effect on Beato's games".

That doesn't mean that she's not an essential part of the truth somehow.

>>5676500
Do you guys even read? Knox wouldnt let Erika affect the earlier games.
She is vital in confirming lol multiple personality.

>>5676508
She didn't affect episode 1-4.
Ryukishi stated that you only needed episode 1-4 to solve the mystery of Rokkenjima.
It's fucking mathematic.

>>5676509
Erika has nothing to do with DID

>>5676518
I was supposed to quote >>5676424
Anyway Erika's role in ep5 and ep6 are there to give us hints and answers. She is essentially the Akasaka of the Umineko world.

>>5676518

I'm saying that she could be an essential component of some character's past. Obviously she can't directly affect the events on Rokkenjima.

>>5676486

Anyone?

>>5676544
You'd have some clues if it was true.
Erika is just a litteral mary sue, a hax character that Bern managed to introduce thank to a loophole to fuck shit up, that's all.

>>5676518
Then did Ryukishi ever sayt hat she was vital to the plot?

If she is, then the way I see it she must have a connection even if it may be indirect, in episode 1-4.
Simply because we are told that episode 1-4 was all we really needed to solve everything, and if Erika is vital, then she must have a connection, right?

>>5676560
The plot of Umineko isn't only the mystery of Rokkenjima you know.
There is the whole meta world and it's meaning, the meaning of the gameboard, etc..., these things take most of the place in the later episodes.

>>5676562
So? Should it matter?
Didn't Ryukishi say that episode 1-4 was enough? If it was enough then we should have been able to figure it out by episode 4?

>>5676565
But we did figure it out by episode 4.

Hypothesis
Erika has to do with Battler's Sin.

Theory
Battler's sin is either to get a girlfriend, or breaking up with her, this old girlfriend of his being Erika.

>>5676602
Then what has Erika got to do with it?

IT'S LIKE I'M REALLY WATCHING THE SECOND SEASON DONE BY DEEN

>>5676602

Even if Shkanon is true, it's not Ryukishi's ANSWER.

It doesn't answer anything. It just raises more questions.

So no, you haven't solved shit.

>>5676645
Actually it solves everything, if you add the bomb.
And it's definitely Ryukishi's answer.

>>5676546
>>5676486

http://joesca.livejournal.com/11203.html
Here you go.

Varification please
Vital in this case means necessary, right?

So does this mean that we can't solve it without the connection to Erika?
When did Ryu07 state this? An interview? Which one?

Whoever wins, pro-Shkannon or anti-Shkannon, we win too. Fanatics' tears are so delicious.

>>5676651
Explain what actually happened in Episode 4.

>>5676651

It. What. You're trolling.

It doesn't solve a god damn thing, and the bomb only answers 'what happens at midnight'.

Neither Shkanon nor the bomb can answer WHY anything is happening, or even HOW.

>>5676664
>livejournal

Get out.

>>5676618
Holy shit.

Not only did Battler have a motherfucking girlfriend when he was twelve, there's evidence that he might have been cheating on her!

Battler is awesome!

>>5676651
How did Episode 1 carry out?
And Episode 2, 3 and 4 etc?

Could you share us this explenation? All twilights and all important scenes?

>>5676669


Nothing in EP4 followed a logical procession of events. Shit in the dungeon happened before the dinner incident, etc

>>5676676
Kids these days you know.

But there are theories on wether or not Battler was Erika's Ex.

>>5676684
Everyone figured that part out. Tell us what ACTUALLY HAPPENED. Like a synopsis.

>>5676706

I really, really like this theory. It'd give Erika an actual purpose...

Episode 1:
Sayo drugs the first five, move them to the shed, kill them, puts lots of trash in a place no one can look easily, put a fake arm there with the ring she received from George.

The illusion is completed, Shannon has "died" as well.
After that it's easy, Kanon kill Eva and Hideyoshi in their room, put some string to hold the chain to give the illusion of a closed room.
Later, Kanon "dies", of course it's a fake injury, Nanjo who is an accomplice cover for him.
All of them go to Kinzo's room, Maria who had been given instruction from Beatrice beforehand put the letter on the table.

Nanjo, Genji, Kumasawa and Maria separate themselves from the group, Sayo aka Beatrice come and kill the first 3.
She leaves a letter for Natsuhi to come in front of the portrait.
Natsuhi comes, Sayo kills her with her gun, exchange her own gun with Natsuhi's and hide herself.
The survivors come just before midnight, cue the end.

Here, it was easy.

>>5676711

And if you can't do this, you haven't solved anything.

>>5676684
Ep4 is easy once you figured out the trick.
None of them can make a mistake about Kinzo. This was stated in red.
They all lied about it. Just think about why they want to lie about it and you will arrive at your answer.

>>5676706
Except nobody knew Erika. So either she's changed so much even her ex can't remember it, or it's bullshit.

>>5676724

This can be explained just as well with Shannon and Kanon being different people. Hell, you can't even explain the boiler room door with Shkanon being true.

Ep1 is easy no matter what theory you subscribe to, anyway.

>>5676729

Either they lie about it because they're being threatened or because they genuinely believe he's still alive without ever having seen him.

I don't understand what you're getting at. There's no need to be so cryptic; explain.

>>5676706
She might very well have dyed her hair, and in the metaworld it was said that she was given Bern's blue hair as a gift.

If you dye your hair, grow for six years, and possibly lie about your name, then it's quite possible to be forgotten.

Holy shit. I was already surprised by the secret hints in TIPS, but a completely new scene after ???? ?!

>>5676766
Exactly because they lie.
Nobody was dead in that room. If I remember correctly there is no red text regarding this. Now I am exactly calling the liars the culprit but maybe they are just a bit untrustworthy. There is just too many liars in umineko.

>>5676729
Yet Battler mistook a twig and a rag for Kinzo.

It works the other way around, if they actually saw the real Kinzo, then they wouldn't be able to mistake him for anything else.
But they could mistake something that's not Kinzo for Kinzo.

Episode 2.
Sayo as Beatrice meets Rosa and Kyrie and manage to get them to her side using the gold.
That's why they both state that they saw the mysterious person x.

Sayo in Beatrice mode invite everyone in the chapel and gets to killing, Rosa who is an accomplice survives, the chapel trick is a simple THE DOOR WASN'T ACTUALLY CLOSED TRICK.
Rosa takes all the master keys.
Jessica goes in her room, Sayo in Kanon mode follow her and kill her, he leaves the room by the door without closing it.
Rosa who control every keys fakes unlocking it, the door was already unlocked from the beginning so it was a false closed room.

Natsuhi's closed room, George goes to this room, Shannon kills him and Godha.
Then she goes take Jessica who was still her room and give her her own clothes, she then put a nice big hole in the face and let her in Natsuhi's room, illusion of Shannon's death completed.

Beatrice hides under the bed, that's why Rosa is so jumpy when Battler enter and tries to look at the bodies.
Later, Battler goes drunk, Sayo prepares Kinzo's body in his room and the ending play out.
Rosa who was told about the bomb just before tries to flee with Maria.

>>5676740
>>5676811
Bear in mind also that this is just a fiction that Hachijo wrote based on limited information.

It's POSSIBLE that she is Battler's ex, but Hachijo simply didn't write her into that role. Or she may have simply omitted that, since it's obvious that Hachijo isn't going to just come out with something like that. She did leave a few hints though, enough to make the theory plausible.

>>5676830
>Yet Battler mistook a twig and a rag for Kinzo.
That was the entire point of that scene. Battler never mistook a twig and a rag for Kinzo; it was unreliable narration. It never happened.

>>5676821
What the fuck?

>>5676821
Nice try there, troll.

>>5676830
>No matter what the disguise, they would not mistake Ushiromiya Kinzo!
>No matter what the disguise

>>5676866
Yes, but they could lie about it as Battler said he did.

>>5676866
That sounds more like if Kinzo disguised himself everyone would still see him as Kinzo, no matter what.

>>5676837

There are so many terrible assumptions here that I don't even know where to begin.

I will say, though, that a) Shannon's corpse pretty much has to be her own, since Battler examined it, b) Rosa doesn't need to be controlling the master keys for the second twilight, Shannon can just lock the door with her own key, and c) you don't need Shkanon to explain your synopsis either.

>>5676851

By the way, this also means that the end of Ep2 was unreliable narration. It's helpful to remember that Meta-Battler had surrendered at this time.

>>5676844

Hachijou basically has to know everything about Rokkenjima in order to convincingly write her books, though. I don't think you can call her information "limited". In any case, she's definitely been to the island herself.

>>5676879
I was saying how they lie about it. Nobody is acting as Kinzo. The murderer is someone in that room and they lied about it. There is no way you can kill all of them and then gaap them through the floor.

>>5676837
>>5676724
But have you thought of why? That's one of the tougher parts of this mystery.

>>5676894
>By the way, this also means that the end of Ep2 was unreliable narration. It's helpful to remember that Meta-Battler had surrendered at this time.
Battler is not the detective for ep5. It only applied for that episode.

>>5676894
>Shannon's corpse pretty much has to be her own, since Battler examined it
No, since Battler was never the detective he can be mistaken.

>she's definitely been to the island herself.
She directly said at one point that she didn't get the last part of the epitaph but if she went to the island she could probably easily figure it out. You don't need to know everything to know the general truth.

>>5676898

Alternatively, the "Kinzo" in the dining room was actually his last will and testament in the form of a recording (there IS a recording device in that room) and everyone merely assumed that he was shouting at them from somewhere close by.

And Then There Were None used a similar trick, as I recall...

>>5676821
Where did you find that?

>Sayo in Beatrice mode invite everyone in the chapel and gets to killing, Rosa who is an accomplice survives, the chapel trick is a simple THE DOOR WASN'T ACTUALLY CLOSED TRICK.
>Rosa takes all the master keys.
>Jessica goes in her room, Sayo in Kanon mode follow her and kill her, he leaves the room by the door without closing it.
>Rosa who control every keys fakes unlocking it, the door was already unlocked from the beginning so it was a false closed room.

This is probably 100% true.

>>5676821
A completely black background, I wonder why.

>>5676927

More like

>Beatrice kills everyone in the chapel with magic after they acknowledge her as the witch
>Beatrice kills Jessica too.

>>5676928
Ask Ryukishi.

>>5676919
Well this might be true but they are still lying when they told Battler the situation.
I can't really remember the whole event in ep4 since it was so long ago but there is no way a single person can do all that alone.

>>5676837
>Rosa who control every keys fakes unlocking it, the door was already unlocked from the beginning so it was a false closed room.
Except the door was unlocked by Gohda with master key.

>Natsuhi's closed room
Was "just like usual", therefore nobody hides in the room.
>she goes take Jessica who was still her room and give her her own clothes
Battler is not that stupid.

And you skipped the murder and lie about Kumasawa and Nanjo.

Of course, they are all accomplices, sure. Especially dumb Kyrie who agreed to take part in it and foolishly died first.

>>5676912
>Battler is not the detective for ep5. It only applied for that episode.

"No one would mistake Kinzo by sight" applies to all episodes.

Battler has surrendered at the end of Ep2 and thus his viewpoint cannot be reliable. It's all that makes sense.

>>5676913
>No, since Battler was never the detective he can be mistaken.

...What?

>She directly said at one point that she didn't get the last part of the epitaph

Ah, so that's why the solution bit in Ep5 is such bullshit.

However, I don't entirely buy what Hachijou says about herself, since I don't believe there's any way she could figure out such important truths from two bottle letters unless she'd actually been at the incident.

Episode 3:
Like in episode 2, Rosa and Kyrie have been bought.
Sayo kills Kumasawa, Gohda and Genji prepares the closed rooms circle.
With all the master keys and room's keys in her possession, she put every bodies in their own room putting both the master key of the servant and of the room to complete the closed room.
It leaves her with 2 masters key and 2 normal keys, for Shannon's and Kanon's rooms.

Sayo prepares the first room with Shannon, fake her death, Rosa and Kyrie who are accomplices lead the party there, they break the windows to enter.
They find Shannon's "body" and go to the next closed romm.
During that time, Shannon goes to the chapel, change clothes and use her last master key to complete the closed rooms circle.

Later Eva finds the gold, Rosa who knew where it was thank to Sayo realized it.
Eva realized she was in danger and faked an illness.
Rosa and Kyrie have an argument and things escalate, Kyrie kills Rosa and Maria, probably by accident.
Later Kyrie find the butt of a cigarette next to the scene and realize that Hideyoshi could have seen everything.
Kyrie decides to trap Hideyoshi with Rudolf.
Then either they kill each other or Sayo decides to hijack think and gun them all down, anyways they all die.
Sayo also kills Natsuhi and Krauss.
She then takes her Shannon's clothes back and lures George outside, Nanjo closes the windows behind him.
Sayo kills him and fakes her death when Hattler and co come.
At the end, Sayo kills Nanjo, uses her Kanon's persona to lure Jessica in the lounge, BOMB happens, the end.

>>5676921
Finished ep6.
Finished Tea Party.
Finished ?????.
Listen to all the music box track at least one.
Unlocked Hidden TIPS.

>>5676906
Because of LOVE.
No one has a real answer so no one has really solved anyuthing

>>5676963
I tried that, nothing happened.

>>5676959
What wrong with Battler viewpoint in ep2?
It was different only for ep5 since he was not detective and he was lying about it
>that my viewpoint wasn't objective!!
He can lie because he is not the detective.

>>5676959
For the fake corpse of Shannon in episode, Shannon's body had a BIG HOLE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE HEAD.
How the fuck could Battler recognize her for sure?

For the closed rooms, there are several different solutions.
1-Gohda was an accomplice or simply feared for his life so he faked opening the door, he did lie about Kanon later.
2-Or Rosa simply unlocked the rooms to make Sayo get out beforehand, for both closed rooms.

>>5676962
>Rosa and Kyrie who are accomplices lead the party there
Have you fucking read it at all? Rosa and Kyrie stayed in the guesthouse with cousins.

>>5676962

This the only construction you need Shkanon to explain, but you're also made several horrible assumptions again.

First of all, Kyrie and Rosa were in the guesthouse while the other adults were finding bodies, if I recall correctly, and furthermore, Kyrie can't have killed Rosa, she was with the other adults at the time.

The only people who could have killed Rosa and Maria are Eva, Nanjo, and Rudolf.

But really, if you're going to explain things with Shkanon's real personality running around, you could just have HER kill Rosa.

>>5676959
>...What?
He could have made a mistake. Only what the detective is all-seeing and only their testimony can be counted as true.

>I don't believe there's any way she could figure out such important truths from two bottle letters unless she'd actually been at the incident.
I do. Whatever.

>>5676997
Not for the first closed room, later when they found the body.
It's been a long time since I read it but it's not a problem, it was the only room with an easily accessible windows anyways.

>How the fuck could Battler recognize her (Shannon) for sure?
Now that I think about it, did they check to see her tattoo?

another thread

>>5676998

>At the end, Sayo kills Nanjo
Shannon/Kanon is dead.
You really have to change this to Beatrice personality to make it fit and the only reason why the DID theory is so fucking bullshit. I really cant believe R07 is using this.

>>5677005
I was just giving a bone to the fans of Kyrie.
Yeah Sayo killing them fit nicely, Beatrice is the one who kill them in the fantasy version as well.

>>5676962
>During that time, Shannon goes to the chapel, change clothes and use her last master key to complete the closed rooms circle.
Too bad master key doesn't work on the chapel door.

# 6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead!
# All of them had wounds resembling gunshot wounds which became fatal!

There can't be a wound fatal only to a personality and not their common body.

>>5677039
Isn't that just a design on her stockings?

>>5676988

He surrendered after Rosa accused him of being a wolf, and so his piece was no longer the detective.

However...

>>5677006

BATTLER IS STILL THE DETECTIVE FOR MOST OF THE FIRST FOUR GAMES.

He can't MAKE mistakes like that.

>>5676994
>BIG HOLE

Yeah, go watch the anime, it's a hole in her forehead. It doesn't obstruct her features at all. You're a retard.

Also the servants still had their master keys for the second twilight. Shannon could have marched in and either a) stabbed Jessica in the back, or b) stabbed both Kanon and Jessica and then thrown Kanon out the window, depending on what theory you subscribe to.

>>5677051
>All of them had wounds resembling gunshot wounds which became fatal!
>resembling gunshot wounds which became fatal!
>>resembling

Yeah.

>>5677051

Waitasec. KINZO had a wound resembling a gunshot wound which became fatal?

Uh. How does this work?

>>5677056
I won't watch the anime.
Look at the way Rosa acted during this scene, she freaked out when Battler touched the body.
And Battler never talks about the features of the body, only about the brain that is fucking spilling and shit.
He didn't look closely.

>>5677071

She freaked out because he was messing with a fucking crime scene.

And again, it's not like he wouldn't notice her face. He says it was clearly Shannon, he touched her body, it's Shannon.

>>5677058
Here, I'll make it easier for you to read:
# All of them had wounds which became fatal! These wounds looked like gunshot wounds.

It doesn't matter what they are resembling, they are fatal nonetheless.

Killing your personality without killing your body is a fucking bullshit cop out.
I dont know if this is the reason why R07 call it his dirty trick.

>>5677070
Put some blood or red ink on your shirt, a small hole too. Cut yourself a little where the bullet was supposed to be as well.
Congratulation, you have a wound that resemble gunshot wounds which became fatal!

>>5677070
He was killed.

>>5677081
Learn to read and stop fucking up the red text.
Or are you telling me Kinzo died by gunshot?

>>5677051
You know what the problem about the Chapel door is?

It is nowhere written that it is locked.

>>5677093
He wasn't, that's why Beatrice couldn't say that everyone was a victim of murders in episode 3.

>>5677094
Can you prove the opposite?

>>5677102
Are you stupid?
Kinzo was already dead for two years.

>>5677100

But then how did he have a fatal wound?

Did he shoot himself?

>>5677087
Except it's not a wound, fucking idiot.

>>5677077
>>She freaked out because he was messing with a fucking crime scene.
So the person who TALKED TO KINZO, NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT MEETING BEATRICE THE NIGHT EVERYONE DIED EVEN THOUGH WE KNOW SHE DID and FLEW THE MANSION LIKE SHE WAS SCARED EVERYTHING WAS GOING TO BLOW UP was scared that Battler was going to fuck up the scene of the crime for the police?

Sorry if I don't find this believable.

>>5677104
So? He was shot 2 years ago.

>>5677110
Learn to read dumbass.
Go open a dictionary and look for the word call resembling.

>># All of them had wounds resembling gunshot wounds which became fatal!
This is called a fucking loophole and it's used with the red text constantly.
Beatrice never said that they all died by gunshot, only that they had wounds which RESEMBLED gunshot wounds which became fatal.

IT'S NOT THE SAME THING.

I wonder if it's supposed to be "they had wounds (resembling gunshot wounds) which became fatal" or "they had wounds (resembling gunshot wounds which became fatal)".

>>5677097
When they reconstructed the event, they said that relatives discovered closed chapel.

By the way guys, do we have any magic scene in ep2 on how Shannon lost her personality?

>>5677055
I was pretty sure that in the discussions around the first episode it was confirmed to be a tattoo, along with Eva's arm.

>>5677134
Do you have a screen ready?

For episode 2, Battler meets Beatrice.
There is like 99% sure that Shannon is Beatrice.
Therefore Shannon had to fake her death.
If you take the problem that way, it's simpler.

>>5677114

But you can't say that means "it wasn't Shannon's corpse".

Battler saw it. He touched her. He saw her face. It's Shannon. She's dead. He saw inside.

>>5677128

..."which became fatal".

It doesn't matter whether they're gunshot wounds or not, the wounds were fatal.

Which kills both Shannon and Kanon and raises an interesting contradiction with Kinzo's death.

>>5677128
Right, because they supposedly have been killed by stakes.

Regarding Battler and all the detective stuff.

It was outright stated in Episode 6 that Battler never had the detective's authority, and thus it was "just like when Battler was playing" when Erika chose not to have it either.

>BATTLER IS STILL THE DETECTIVE FOR MOST OF THE FIRST FOUR GAMES.
He never made the detective's proclamation, there was no detective.

>>5677154
Seriously, learn to read.

>>5677133
First reasonable post.

You know, some people always go READING COMPREHENSION READING COMPREHENSION READING COMPREHENSION but when you see someone who doesn't even know what RESEMBLING mean, you really ask yourself how stupid people can be.

>>5677152

...Battler's perspective is unreliable in those scenes. Unless you really believe he was eaten by goats.

However...

>>5677169

Where does it say this? I've never heard of this before.

And if that's true, well... I can pretty much make any theory I want, can't I?

>>5677154
>He touched her.
What kind of relationship did they have that he could tell the feel of her skin, or her hair, or whatever from any other girls'?

>He saw her face.
OH RIGHT the face that had a huge gaping hole in it right?

>>5677187

>>5677174
*Until now, you have been the DETECTIVE!*
Detective's proclamation is just a super-detective's hax, but you still can be a detective without it.

>>5677195
But it was stated that he wasn't. See >>5677169.

>>5677186
It was justified by R07 to call his readers retards when you have people that dont even know the meaning of resembling or people just making more retarded theories just to deny something that they hate.

>>5677188
Hole was in the forehead.

>>5677188

You're a complete retard. The hole was in her forehead, not in her face. Forehead =/= face. Look in the fucking TIPS. There was a screencap about thirty posts ago, even.

>>5677188
Gaping hole?
See >>5677085 please. That look like ketchup sauce to me. If you want to argue about animu adaptation, >>>/a/ is that way.

>>5677169
>It was outright stated in Episode 6 that Battler never had the detective's authority, and thus it was "just like when Battler was playing" when Erika chose not to have it either.
That meant he used to have no magical tape or red text or a Dlanor, not that he was never a detective.

>>5677208
But exactly how big was that hole? I wonder if it was enough to disfigure all of her face or not.

>>5677201
It was stated by Erika in white. And it was only stated that he didn't have detective's hax proclamation.
*Until now, you have been the DETECTIVE!* said in red.

Battler only talks about the brain that is spilling and only look at her for a few seconds.

>>5677225

It wasn't big enough to disfigure her face. It was like a large bullet hole, but in the branium. He even says he can see into the depths of her brain.

>>5677192

Exactly. Without detective's perspective, solving the games becomes easy.

>>5677201

...Except that Dlanor's proclamation is in red text.

Seriously, go play the Ep5 Hidden Tea Party again, she confirms that Battler had been the detective.

>>5677222
No, it was clear that he was not the detective. He couldn't control the pieces, and he couldn't use his observations as proof.

>>5677220
Ryukishi: Of course. I have been supervising those very carefully. In Higurashi, there were some problems with presentation, and they were allowed to do as they pleased in certain areas. But this time, I have been checking very carefully to make sure there are ‘no misconceptions in the presentation’ this time, so I think people will be able to significantly enjoy speculation in those as well.

Keiya: In that case, will people who only watch the anime be able to speculate about the series?

Ryukishi: There is an overwhelming difference in the amount of information contained in an anime and the original work, so it will probably be best to play the original as far as ‘the number of hints’ is concerned. But as I just said, mysteries in pictures and mysteries in text focus on foreshadowing in very different ways, so things that you didn’t notice in the original might feel very out of place in the anime. Then when you return to the original and read the same scene again, you might suddenly feel that something is very suspicious in certain places…… The opposite holds true as well, since some places might not leave an impact when on screen, but the text would lead one to wonder “why is this part being described so thoroughly?” So it might be useful to see it through different mediums.

>>5677243

That's because they're not pieces, they're real people, and everything to do with "gameboards" and "the meta-world" is complete and utter bullshit.

I can't believe people buy this crap.

>>5677240
A detective just means that your narration is reliable.
In this case it is reliable.
He went to Shannon, saw her body, describe her the way he see it and made a conclusion that she died.
He wouldnt know that she was such a good actress.

>>5677243
>He couldn't control the pieces
Neither can erika, but he still can make other people listen to his theories if he wants to, eps 1-2 have proof of this.
>he couldn't use his observations as proof.
He can use his PoV as objective but, just like erika, has to check things carefully to validate them as proof.

>Seriously, go play the Ep5 Hidden Tea Party again, she confirms that Battler had been the detective.
Uuu~ Then why did he not have the powers of the detective? Why was it said that Erika without the detective's proclamation was exactly in the same situation as Battler in the first four games? wtf.

>>5677257

He could see inside her head. You can't fake that with makeup.

She's dead, and the only other deaths in Ep2 are due to the explosion.

>>5677133

彼ら全員には致命傷となった銃創と思わしき傷痕があったぞ

Japanese version, it's the second version.
Baically the wound ressembled (gunshot wound which became fatal).

>>5677263
>why did he not have the powers of the detective?

Because that's magic and magic isn't real.

When did people start believing in magic again?

>>5677268
Thanks.

>>5677255
>>That's because they're not pieces, they're real people, and everything to do with "gameboards" and "the meta-world" is complete and utter bullshit.

Do you even play the games?
It's not even subtle anymore by episode 6, how the fuck do you manage to miss so much stuff?

>>5677274
It's not magic, it's one of the rule of the game.

>>5677274
But this isn't real life, this is a logic game which operates within a set of rules. The detective's authority was made very clear.

>>5677265
>He could see inside her head.

Is this true?
Ep2 is so long ago. Anyone got screenshot of that scene?

>>5677281

Because I refuse to believe in magic.

Hell, Hachijou's books even offer us a way to easily deny the meta-world. That's half the point.

I don't believe in the shit Ep5 and 6 keep feeding us because it all seems so fucking fake, and frankly, I don't give a rat's ass about the meta-world anymore.

>>5677285

Sure seems like magic to me.

>>5677288

I'll accept Detective's Authority the minute I get a reliable perspective in Ep5 and 6.

Oh, wait.

>>5677302
This isn't magic, it's just a game.
Just think of Umineko as a big D&D game that the players take a little too seriously.

>>5677302
I don't know about you but you should realize by now that only Ep1 went ahead with any witches intervention.
Ep2-Ep5 is a like a game between a warlock vs a witch.

>>5677301
Maybe my heart was completely tired out and dead...
Even though I knew what I was doing was wrong, ...I lifted her head, and checked.

......And, I made sure that my guess was right on the mark.
There was a gaping hole in Shannon-chan's head, and her insides were dripping out.
Not only that, ...you could even see, ...inside her.

>>5677316
>>Sure seems like magic to me.
If you control a character in some game you play, is it magic?

>>5677326
Oh and one more thing, the game has a set of rules.
No magic is allowed but you are supposed to win by making them as if magic exists.

Am I missing something? Isn't the meta-world supposed to be a metaphorical view of what's actually happening?

What's with all this denial?

>>5677331
If you can summon magic furniture, make people do what you want without asking any permission, have 100% chance to see through any illusion, then yeah, it's magic.

>heart was completely tired out and dead...
>tired out and dead...
Unless Battler is having delusion, his narration practically killed shkanon.

You need the Detective's proclamation in order to count as a real detective, and in order for knox's rules to apply.

Battler was never the detective, I don't know why Dlanor said in the previous episode, perhaps because he had the role of the one to solve the mystery, but he was never the detective.
He lacked the detective's authority and therefore none of Knox's rules applied to him, he could be mistaken, he could be the culprit, knox's rules didn't affect him as a detective.

>>5677360
It's not magic if it's set in the game, that's the whole point.
Or are you telling me you still believe that what happen on the gameboard really "happen"?

>>5677360
It's not magic, it's GM hax.
Ask /tg/.

>>5677381
He had it without him knowing it because Beato wanted a fair game and gave him the objective PoV.

>>5677394
Except that Bern and Lambda textually say otherwise.
So who to believe, some random anonymous or actual characters from the game in question?

You will never see this face on EP7

sadfrog.jpg

>>5677400
>Except that Bern and Lambda textually say otherwise.
Prove it then.

>>5677387
It's very unnatural, all things unnatural is magic. If you assume, that it can be a rule, than magic can also be a rule.

>>5677416
See
>>5677381

And actually play the games or something.

>>5675257
its not like the Knox rules have to apply to the Umineko world, it has not been confirmed or anything
maybe they already broke them with a hidden exit for Kanon in the "perfect closed room", since they mentioned something about some people bitching about it not being mystery anymore

>>5677394
>>5677381
I cant find the red text with dlanor stating that Battler is the detective for ep1-4. Was there such a statement made?

>>5677394
Now what makes you think that?
The witches said that he never had anything as convienient as the detective's authority, not that he had the detective's authority but was never something as convenient as aware of it.

He didn't have the detective's authority, he wasn't "the detective".
Erika also said "I am the detective" in episode 6 even if she wasn't and didn't have the detective's authority.
It's just how Ryukishi writes things.

>>5677381
You lack love, normal Ryu complains about his readers since they can't get a point even after a whole ep of hammering it in their heads.
is it that difficult to TRUST the author, a pointy ep6 did countless times?

>>5677420
"Magic" is just a trick in which you lie about the method of achieving a result. The most simple example was Maria's candy-in-the-cup trick. Since the actual process of the candy appearing in the cup was unseen, Sayo fudged it and said it was magic.

You cannot do "magic" without having the ability to do whatever it is yourself first.

>>5677428
# Knox's 8th, it is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not PRESENTED! Until now, you have been the DETECTIVE! Was it ever shown that you were not the detective this time, and that you were an observer with a subjective VIEWPOINT?!! Unless it was, you do not have the right to falsify your point of VIEW!!

>>5677426
If the Knox rules can't hold up there's no point to this game.

Learn to love and trust a little.

>>5677428
No such statement was made.
She just blurred out "Up until now you have been the DETECTIVE" whent hey discussed what person who took the role of trying to clear the mystery and defeating the witches.

It most likely didn't mean that he was "the detective" anyway, after all, Erika can call herself a detective without being the detective.

>>5677447
>right to falsify your point of VIEW!!
Well you can always take the cheap way out.
Incompetent Battler got cheated by a fake makeup, it is not like he want to purposely tell a lie.

>>5677446
How is it related to my point?

Let's look at it this way.
No matter if he was a detective or not, Battler didn't have the detective's authority, this much is confirmed by Lambda and Bern.

But here is the deal, Erika chose not to gain the detective's authority so that she could go against Knox's 7th, as she wouldn't be the detective.
And if she could go against Knox's 7th without the detective's authority due to not being the detective (even if she was called one), the other Knox's regarding the detective didn't apply either, her point of view wasn't certain for an example.

If Battler never had the detective's authority, then they shouldn't apply to him as well.

Knox states that there cannot be supernatural resolution to the mystery. In the first ep, there is no mention of the meta word or the gameboard at all. So we need to account for PERSON MADE OUT OF GOLDEN BUTTERFLIES seen at the end.

>>5677561

AND IF THIS IS TRUE, then there was never a reliable perspective and I can, indeed, make any theory I want.

Which is complete bullshit.

>>5677403
Oh yes I will.

>>5677698

stop crying
all perspective is subjective
if Ryu is giving you something that Battler saw or Battler is seeing then he does not have to guarantee that it is %100 the fact of what went on
this does not mean that it is irrelevant information nor does it mean that you can "make up any theory you want" being all the words are there for a reason- that is the trust between the author and the reader

back to a simple aspect of the argument, erika claims to be playing in ep6 as battler was throughout the rest of the series. under those conditions she can not verify the 100% validity of corpses and has to "re-kill" them. by this logic battler was never able to 100% the death of any character simply by looking at them/checking the body

>>5677698
Certain things could be guaranteed anyway, such as severed heads and so on.

It does give you huge leeway on the other hand.
And yes it does make things a bit stupid, but on the other hand Umineko, not always so good

>>5677719
>that is the trust between the author and the reader

In other words, willing suspension of disbelief, right?

Which Shkanon completely breaks. I lost my trust for Ryu07 LONG AGO.

>by this logic battler was never able to 100% the death of any character

Hence the "I can make any theory I want".

If Battler cannot confirm anyone's death without the benefit of red text, then solving each and every game is pathetically easy. Which I don't believe is the point.

Cheese Battler is the best Battler

>>5677733
It's only an amateur work, not some great and fucking smart mystery written by a maestro.

Of course it's easy.

>>5677714
Disregarding the shoop.

It has been discussed wether or not both of the characters of Ep7's portrait are males or not.
But isn't the blonde person, the real Erika, without Bern's blue hair?
And the other Van Dine, as opposed to Knox?

>>5677722
>such as severed heads and so on.

Who says that bodies actually have the injuries they're shown to have, if Battler's perspective is unreliable? Who says that ANYTHING ever happened as it was shown?

Stating that "Battler wasn't the detective" opens up a gigantic can of worms, which is why I don't think it's anything we should argue about.

>>5677742

...Then what was the point?

>>5677747
>without Bern's blue hair?

Well, Battler DOES like blondes...

>>5677749
Battler's POV is reliable.
He just doesn't the bullshit powers that Erika has.

>>5677733

you're still crying

#1 because shit hasn't been foreshadowed, right? save it for after we hear his explanation.

#2 while Shannon may not be %100 confirmed dead when Battler sees her brain it does not mean that you can make a mastery theory where in fact that was not a real corpse

feel free to make such a theory, though you will not be right and it will not be accepted

>>5677719
>"make up any theory you want" being all the words are there for a reason- that is the trust between the author and the reader
Wasn't this a sub-theme of episode 5 when Battler discussed wether or not Knox is good or bad for the mystery genre?

>>5677760

But I'm seeing the opposite argued here, which is stupid.

>>5677761

Dude, I'M not saying that I WANT to be able to make whatever bullshit theory. I'm saying that the lack of a reliable perspective creates such a situation, and I don't want that.

>>5677765

And he almost had me convinced... up until Ep6.

>>5677733
>by this logic battler was never able to 100% the death of any character
>Hence the "I can make any theory I want".

Only episode 1 lacks red text.
After it you should be able to lean on the red texts, but in the end they are only there to help you sort out what you can trust or not.
In the end it still comes down to the relationship between the author and the reader as they put it.

>>5677797

This kind of thinking makes me ILL.

Trust in the author? Why should I trust in someone who's willing to abuse fake psychological disorders for the sake of getting around HIS OWN RULES?

>>5677797
>relationship between the author and the reader
I wouldn't count on it anymore.

Which is kinda funny considering that without the red text, it would be pretty easy to think of ShKanon as murderer.
With a body you never see and 2 persons you never see together with Battler, it's not rocket science.

The only thing that slowed this down was the red text that confirmed that Kanon and Shannon really die, but in episode 6 basically confirms the crappy logic that personalities are people and therefore can die as well.

Basically the whole trust between the author and the reader is rubbish only used to drag the game even further.

>>5677813

Exactly.

If Shkanon is true, Umineko has become possibly the biggest waste of time in visual novel history.

If it's NOT, Ryukishi is a master troll for tricking the entire fanbase.

Which is more appealing?

>>5677821
I would love for R07 to trick me and make me shit bricks.
But I'm also a realist, it's not going to happen.

>>5677806
The trust for the author is always relevant within the mystery genre of books, it's through that trust you deem what you can trust or not.

But in the relationship the otherway around also matters, and it's that consideration that affects how the mystery is implemented and so on, what kind of readers can I trust them to be, what are they capable of?

And well, can we trust Ryukishi? And can we even trust that he ever had faith in a normal audience?

>Trust
I trusted him to be a better writer, I feel cheated.

>>5677828

I can only accept Shkanon if it's to make room for an extra person, i.e. Pony.

>>5677831
>always relevant within the mystery genre

Normal mysteries don't have DID and blatantly fake scenes, either.

Normal mysteries use misdirection instead of blatant lies.

>>5677121
>wounds resembling gunshot wounds that became fatal
>1. wounds
>2. resembling gunshot wounds
>3. that became fatal
Your little trick fulfills one of three stipulations. Congratulations.

>>5677828
I think we came up with a ~sort of~ acceptable solution to the puzzle of how Kanon could rescue Battler from the guest room last night. It was total bullshit, but with all of our BS powers combined, we might have beaten Ryu's closed room without resorting to Shannon.

It's totally absurd, but it goes like thus: Either a) Battler's 'Guest Room' was actually in the guest house and not in the mansion, or b) the 'Cousin's Room' was actually in the mansion.

Then you can solve the mystery with a simple application of the cups and coins puzzle that was mentioned (but not solved) in the beginning of the game: If Battler's room was actually inside the cousin's room, then Kanon could enter it without breaking any of the seals on the cousin's room. He then discarded his name as 'Kanon' becoming Yoshiya. Thus, 'Kanon' does not exist inside Battler's room.

It's important to note that Erika never said she sealed the two rooms at the same time, or that she sealed them from the outside. If she left the 'next room over', killed Rosa etc., and then went into the cousin's room and sealed the door behind her, all the seals will still be valid at the time she checked on them (after the logic error).

>>5677848
>Normal mysteries don't have DID and blatantly fake scenes, either.
>Normal mysteries use misdirection instead of blatant lies.

I know, that's why Ryu07 chose the wrong path.
He will most certainly have a legion of fans all over the world anyway, but it was "wrong" nonetheless.

Thing is, as you said it's not carried out as a normal mystery novel.
Howver, Ryu07 seems to consider Umineko a mystery novel, that's why he talks of it all as if it were a mystery novel within Umineko (Dlanor, Hachijo etc).
In Episode 5 Dlanor and Battler even reached the conclusion that the trust between the reader and the author is neccesary, yet Knox's rules can help in the way as "crutches" to lean on, but in the end they only help, they doesn't alliveate the relationship between the reader and the author.
That's at least how I remember their conversation, and nothing would really have been wrong with it, -if- Umineko just would have been a proper mystery novel, but it isn't.

>>5677877
*resorting to Shkannon*

>>5677877
Yeah, because that's somehow less ridiculous than Shkanon.

>>5677871
Read this
>>5677268

>>5676894
>By the way, this also means that the end of Ep2 was unreliable narration. It's helpful to remember that Meta-Battler had surrendered at this time.
Or you could say that scene was symbolic and just pass it off as Jessica and Shannon telling him everything. The goat scene was still bullshit, though.

>>5677892
I said it was bullshit. Doesn't change the fact that it could work.

And Shkannon isn't any less ridiculous. And probably more.

>>5677892

Actually, it's sort of a cool misdirection trick that's a callback to an earlier puzzle.

Unlike Shkanon, it doesn't rely on everybody being a huge fucking idiot.

The only problem is that, like with Shkanon, it's sort of impossible to apply this trick to every other closed room, and we're supposed to be able to do that.

>>5677894

That sentence construction makes no sense whatsoever.

>>5677894
Actually, that Japanese has the same ambiguity that the English has. It's just about how you parse it in your head.
(致命傷となった)(銃創と思わしき傷痕)
(致命傷となった銃創と思わしき)(傷痕)
Welcome to wordplay.

>>5677877
Names only refer to the person themselves destroy it.

Erika clearly states EVEN IF HE IS CALLED YOSHIYA, EVEN IF HE CALLED POPONKULU, HE WILL ALWAYS BE REFERRED AS KANON

>>5677950

...Wouldn't that kind of nerf Shkanon?

Well, in any case, you could also simply have Kanon die. Dead people don't exist, after all.

why is there no detektive in EP6?

>>5677892
It is, somewhat. Simply because we absolutely have no reliable perspective.

>>5677935
Well, look at it this way. It was stated by Bern that there are basically two patterns of closed room crimes- The illusion of a closed room, and the illusion of a crime.

Battler opted for the second option- illusion of a crime. Did Erika go for the first when she sealed the family members inside their rooms?

I don't recall it being said though that the solution to this particular closed room was the solution to ALL the closed rooms in the series. I've gotten the impression that Ryu has been running the gamut on recreating or reinterpreting famous closed room crimes. I don't think there's going to be a catchall solution.

>>5677877
So the fact that the room is within another room is key to understanding Beatrice's identity? Logical.

>>5677964
yeah some of the men whose brides "died" went crazy, shot Kanon, he could still rescue Battler but died shortly after that

>>5677964
Kanon doesn't exist anywhere in the room, don't you think that Erika would have been defeated by the simple trick of "Kanon died and therefore doesn't exist anymore"?

And the loophole of "names only refer to the person themselves" is simply what Hachijou and Ange was talking about, someone can grow "2 personalities" within himself who both possess their own identities.
Basically DID.

Now is there any hints that Kanon has a real second personality called Kinzo or Yoshiya?

>>5677974

In one of his recent interviews, he basically stated that, if you can solve the Ep6 guest room, you can solve every closed room in the series.

The solution is supposedly a "key" that you can use to "unlock" every other closed room.

No theory I've seen yet fits that criteria.

>>5677981

One reason I'm so opposed to Shkanon is because of this. A monkey could figure it out, so why is Beatrice's identity such a huge secret?

>>5677997
ShKanontrice can solve most closed room so I don't see the problem.
Then you have simple practical stuff like the keys but it's not a big problem

>>5677994

I've spent some time before proving that, if Erika doesn't exist, and is the same person in both episodes, then the only person she can be is Shannon.

Both location checks and FT victims account for every single person EXCEPT Shannon... and who shot Kanon in that magic scene, again?

>>5678011

How can it solve any closed room?

To be more precise, how can it solve any closed room in a way that other theories cannot?

>>5678027
Because the closed rooms aren't that complicated at all.
The biggest problem was the red text that confirmed without a doubt the death of everyone.
But Lo and behold, you've got a loophole in episode 6 with PERSONALITIES CAN DIE TOO.

So the rest is very easy.

>>5677747
>>5677756
The hair was said to be a gift after all.
Does this mean that it really can be Erika?
Please let it be true.

>>5678042
That would be hilarious, because she lost her chest again.

>>5678037

Honestly, it's not. It's far more difficult than you're making it out to be.

The only game Shkanontrice, and only Shkanontrice can solve completely is Ep3. And that one only has the opening 6 closed rooms.

>>5678073
What the fuck is difficult?
The closed rooms in Umineko are very easy once you realize that R07 mostly always use the same tricks.
Tell me which one is problematic to you.

>>5678073
What. For it to work in ep3 you have to make yet another new assumption that 'it' can still be alive even after both shkannon are dead.

>>5678090
That's the "trice" of ShKanontrice you know.
It's not a 2-ways battle for dominance, it's a 3-way, Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice.

>>5678100
It's heavily implied that -trice is a meta being. Kanon even says so to Beato.

>>5678113
Beatrice still exists on the gameboard.
There are 3 personalities.
Remember episode 4?

>>5678073
Episode 1
Shannon is included among the victims of the first twilight, she however is only playing dead and because she is "hidden in the shadows of a bunch of objects" she is never examined properly.
Shanon kills Hideyoshi and Eva, locks the room from inside and hides, "Kanon" and Genji are told to check on them, They don't respond and "kanon" finds Beatrice's letter, Genji gets worried and leaves in order to get "breaking an entry" tool.
In the meantime Shanon opens the door, paints a scary magic scribble on it, re-enters and locks the door again, hides until everyone checks the room and leaves, and after that she leaves herself.
Closed room episode 1 solved.

>>5678127

............

This only works if Kanon and Shannon are two separate bodies.

...

You're an idiot.

Also, we're on autosage/we've reached the bump limit.

New thread?

>>5678148
How?
The narration tells us that "Kanon" and Genji went to check on Hideyoshi and Eva, but obviously Genji went alone.

>>5678159
I'm sure most people are tired of arguing about the same shit all the time so no, at least I'm calling out.
Honestly I don't even know why I still argue about this game even though I basically gave up on taking seriously.

>>5678123
No, she doesn't. Beatrice is a personification of the rules.
Of course. It just means that Sayo wanted him to remember his 'sin'. If she just went to see him in Shannon outfit, what do you think he would say to her? Right.


By the way, since you, shkannonfriends, like fantasy metaphors so much, what's the point of Evatrice if the murderer is still the same? Why the letter had different style, compared to previous episodes?

>>5678172

How can she be a victim of the first twilight when KANON IS STANDING IN THE SAME ROOM?

How can she be hiding in the guestroom when KANON IS STANDING IN THE SAME ROOM?

>>5678159
This one? >>5678017
Better than creating a thousand Umineko threads at once.

>>5678194

Someone start up this discussion there, then.

>>5678189
Because Kanon isn't real.
Ep6 How can he be in the cousin's room when Shanon is the next room over?!

It doesn't matter if they are in the same room or not, people are mistaken anyway because the narration is flawed.

>>5678223

...So your argument is that Battler never actually sees Kanon because he isn't real, even though his narration describes Kanon being around multiple times?

I don't That What It

You're so fucking stupid I can't even

>>5678243
Why is it anymore stupid than
Kanon being in the cousin's room together with Rudolf, Jessica, Krauss, Gohda and Genji and then all of a sudden never have been in the cousin's room because he was Shannon all along in the next room over.

Bernkastrel and Lambda already said that Battler did not have the detective's authority.

>>5678288

Which allows you to make any theory you want. Which is dangerous and stupid.

We're done here. The thread is dead anyway.

>>5677714
How about no?