/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>Is Battler dead?

Wait, people are still thinking this even after EP6?

Everyone is dead.

There is no meta world, it was just some fanfic written by Hachijo.

There is no reds, there is no blues. Those are a bunch of fanfics too.

>>5672123
After Episode 4 I don't we'll ever be fully divorced from this theory. Even though it is stupid.

As for perspective... Meta-Ange and 6 year old Ange seems like a possibility (but is it? Someone called foul on those spoilers from last week. Anyone confirm/deny?).

Battler doesn't seem like he qualifies since the human side isn't supposed to know the truth. And despite what some have speculated, the game is meant to have a player, so I don't think the meta is going to be absent in this episode.

Ok, we all know Ryu is crazy. Maybe instead of trying to find less crazy scenarios than what is being presented, we should try and find one so complex and counter intuitive that it goes all the way around the crazy wheel and is ALMOST realistic.

>>5672302
Ok. Kanon isn't Shannon. Erika is Kanon. Kanon is often the killer as well. Beatrice was just created by Battler and doesn't exist.

Beatrice was Kinzo's lover or w/e so if Battler was Beatrice does that mean Kinzo sexually molested his grandson?

BEARTRICE

I just realized that If i don't believe in Magic I won't be able to know the truth.

Will batters mom ever show up? shes kinda a mystery

>>5672491
What are you talking about? Kyrie has been in the story since Episode 1...

>>5672405
Delicious shota Battler. He took those steroids in order not to be a trap anymore, isn't interested in relationships because sex was pretty much ingrained into boredom. Also his tits fascination comes from the fact that in all his sexual experience he never got to play with them.(because all his sex was gay sex) Also Battler is gay.

>>5672490
We already know magic is bullshit, anon. You just have to understand how it works.

Well, I'll go with my theories for episode 7.

Nanjo is an accomplice for gold, his dying granddaughter and what not. Same with the others who received a payoff in the mail.

Jessica is Battler Ushiromiya (Asumu's, naturally)

There is someone behind Shkanontrice that isn't Kinzo.

Those two idiots in the portrait die at the end.

EP7 will be torture torture torture for everyone in Rokkenjima

Krauss dies by having his head boiled in absinthe while alive, which is then forcefully fed to Natsuhi

Eva dies by being hammered to death with a pocket hammer, eventually cracking her skull after a hundred blows, Hideyoshi is the one who does this with George being held hostage

Rosa dies by being skinned, and then bled to death, which takes hours, but having seen the same done to Maria first

Rudolf dies peacefully from masturbation, cool guy rest in peace

>>5672491
I mean battlers real mother..., I know shes dead but she might come out of no where( forgot her name) I think its like ausmu or something..

The concept of witches who exist for love was originally featured in the series "Charmed"
From the OP of this series, and I quote,
"I am the sun, I am the air, I am heaven and I need to be loved"
"See I've already waited to long, and all my hope is gone"
Umineko being heavily influenced by Charmed can also be noted in this OP. Beatrice, the one who loves Battler, is heaven. Why does sin come between their love? Because sin stalls man from his rightful place in heaven, that loves him.
Not that these aren't actually the original lyrics of the song, but commonly misheard lyrics. This is what "without love, it can't be seen" refers to

>>5672512
Look, Ryukishi wants us to look through what's hidden in magic scenes. But that doesn't disprove the fact that Magic exist.

>>5672512
Except for all that magical knowledge that Erika's piece has been getting the ENTIRE time she has been part of the game. I would not be surprised if Erika does not exist in any of the games.(remember that 5th wasn't trust worthy on viewing, else we'd have proof against Shkanon, and this episode was so meta I doubt it was even a real game board in the firstplace)

Magic most certainly exists. In this story, magic exists to obscure the truth. The truth is not magic.

My bet: game board view like "Legend". It would create a nice bookend to the zOMgkrazieMaGIcK~~ of the rest of the tale.

I espouse Jessica as the culprit in collusion with Shkannon. Remember the Marisa cosplay?

>Marisa is a human magician who lives in a cluttered house in the Forest of Magic.

Remind you of anyone?

>>5672569
Only Shannon is confirmed to be Beatrice as well as Kanon.

>>5672569

That doesn't prove anything other than R07 likes Touhou. The fact that the Siestas are Rabbit girls that make a bowstring motion which fires a magic bullet and their song is called "Dance of the Moon Rabbits" is another piece of evidence.

What if Shkanon is wrong, and Kanon is that baby that fell off the cliff 19 years prior, and returned some odd 6 years to check the place out temporarily, only to be hit on and fall in love with Battler?

>>5672569
I'm betting against a 'game board view' in Episode 7 simply because I don't believe it is the last Episode.

Ryu said this game will give us a rather merciless answer. But that doesn't mean it is the final answer.

>>5672592
Not to mention that Battler says in episode 1 that he thought rabbits lived on the moon when he was a kid

>>5672593
>What if Shkanon is wrong
Stopped reading there.

>The most amazing hint you got was that despite the island being full of seagulls no one never manages to see one! Now go to google and search seagull. There you go.
Listen to this guy.

>>5672585
Huh? I don't understand. Then who gave the brooch to Shkannon?

What if the baby who dies is still alive? and his name is Yoshiya?

>>5672585
I'd rather point to Kanon as the one confirmed for Beatrice. Everything pointing to Shannon is only coincidence, Kanon has lots of hard stuff like the fact that his body is the only one that could be Beatrice's. Now assume Shkanon alright it's one in the same, but in the case Shkanon is wrong we must keep the definition clear.

>>5672608

Moon rabbit is a common legend due to shadows of the craters. The siestas are part of an elite corps of rabbits that are supposedly from the moon. They also PRETEND to hold a bow and manage to fire a magic arrow. Reisen makes a gun motion with her hand and fires bullets. I don't feel like finding a picture of Reisen cosplaying as a Siesta but it does exist and it makes sense.

There is also the fact that nearly every magical being is female and has some sort of frilly outfit and silly hat or headwear. Beatrice has a rose, and Virgilia has Pyonta's cousin. EP3's magic battle is also a fucking danmaku fight.

Either R07 really likes Touhou or we have a meta theory as RUN07.

>>5672645
Then how the hell does he get out of the cousin's room? Magic?

>>5672654
Better than ShKshit.

>>5672675
That's not an answer.

NANJO IS ACTUALLY HIS GRANDDAUGHTER IN DISGUISE

BATTLER IS HIS OWN FATHER

RUDOLF IS MARIA'S MAMA

>>5672654
It's Kanon. I mean, he survived a fall as a baby.

>>5672649
Did you ignore the part with Jessica's concert?

>>5672569
I think Jessica gets a bad rap. She's not stupid, which is precisely why I don't think she's the culprit. An intelligent culprit would only kill the people in the way of a tangible benefit, like money, perhaps killing a few more people as well to cover up her actions. This culprit is quite illogical.

The culprit in this tragedy isn't some genius. Her motives are idiotic, her methods exist only due to the skills of others and the fact that people trust her.

Sayo is able to do what she does because Battler, George, Jessica... they all believe in her. And that... was their undoing.

>>5672703
I absolutely hate this. But at the same time, I have to acknowledge it. For all intents and purposes, Jessica WAS the only person among the six being tested who stopped to say "Why are we doing this? It doesn't even make sense".

But the culprit is more intelligent than you give credit for. Or at least, they are well enough prepared that it doesn't matter.

Hopefully Shkannon will be disproved!!

>>5672772
Thus rendering episode 6 pointless

>>5672760
Jessica stood out as the person saying "Why are you doing this? It doesn't even make sense." not because she's intelligent, but because she represents the moronic reader who needs their hand held. She's the opposite of Ange.

>>5672782
If that's all you came out of Episode 6 with, then yeah.

>The most amazing hint you got was that despite the island being full of seagulls no one never manages to see one! Now go to google and search seagull. There you go.

I googled it. I found out seagulls sometimes feed on whale feces. How is this relevant?

>>5672760
>For all intents and purposes,
I don't think that means what you think it does

nanjo is the master mind of all this, he is a doctor and had to go too collage.

Genji, furniture that he is, will be shown to be the fourth personality of Shkannontrice.

>>5672846
Impossible, out of the original 17 only Shannon and Kanon could possibly be samefag.

Let me ask a question /jp/.

Love is an important part of this game, but do you really believe in it?

What about this line from the ending song of EP6?

>I don't forgive
>my unfeeling mother

We know Jessica resents her family for raising her to be a proper young lady.

Damn the new guys are hot

>>5672787
I think you're trying to be a bit too deep there. Jessica's actions and thoughts were perfectly reasonable for the situation. George certainly doesn't know the bitter truth about Sayo, and neither does Piece Battler. When they see Sayo exposed for the murderer she is, they won't be pleased.

That is, if they are still alive.

>>5672782
No, it will still possess that hour explanation of why magic doesn't exist.

>>5672846

The fact that Shkanonfags claim Kanon and Shannon being furniture as "proof" of their nonexistence is laughable when you consider that Genji is also referred to as furniture.

The real important thing about the furniture crap that no one seems to pay attention to anymore is how, in the early episodes, all three of them seem to be aware of their inevitable death...

so is that blond a guy or a women, was it said yet?

>>5672884
>That is, if they are still alive.

Bern will keep Battler alive just to drink his tears.

>>5672884
>George certainly doesn't know the bitter truth about Sayo

Are you sure about that bro? Because he seemed kinda different when they got brought into the test. I got the impression that Jessica and moe-Beato were the only ones who didn't fully understand what was going on there.

>>5672891
So is Rudolf BTW. Maybe Rudolf knows about Battler's sin.

>>5672884
The thing is, what they were doing does make sense when you understand the truth of Shkanontrice. Jessica was the only one who constantly bitched and moaned about it.

bracing for awesome bern trolling and battler being a big crying baby again and kinzo hopefully , fuck yea best ep ever

So Ep 7's gonna have genderbent Beatrice in it? Hot.

>>5672701

Yes. It was already mentioned with the whole "Jessica is Marisa" thing that's in this thread...so I went out of my way to pick out the other more subtle things, some of which are a stretch.

Oh, and Ange looks like Komachi.

>>5672920
A female version of Battler would be delicious.

>>5672867
End of the episode, paraphrased for people who didn't understand what "love" meant -
Battler: "You sure about this trick, Beato? The ones who don't solve it are gonna think we're idiots."
Beato: "No, it's perfect. The ones who think we're idiots won't be able to solve it!"

Ryukishi said EP7 will have a merciless answer. If this is the final episode, I expect nothing but ruin and destruction given the Game Master. Even if Battler shows up, I expect Umineko to end with a massive tragedy-fest. No happy ending. No bittersweet ending. Just death and tears.

>>5672916
Jessica was a victim of circumstance with the whole affair. You're making the assumption that Jessica knows that Shannon is Kanon or indeed what furniture is. She, like everyone else, doesn't. All she knows is that she has a crush on that servant with the beret, suspects that he likes her too, and would like to start a relationship with him and see where it goes.

Somehow this escalates into a trial where unless she kills people her life will be doomed for all time. It isn't very surprising that she objects, the scenario is ludicrous at best. George is madly in love with Shannon to an unhealthy degree and thus jumps the gun at a chance to prove himself, while Meta-Battler knows the answers to everything because he reached the truth.

To someone like Jessica, who isn't obsessive like George nor all knowing like Battler, the trial really does make no sense.

And I don't think that makes her dumb, no in fact her views on love was the most mature out of all the rest.

I actually had to pick apart at some things to get away from Skhannontrice, but here is some evidence from the first episode.

"The identities of all the unidentified corpses in the first episode first twilight is confirmed" is a red truth.

Hideyoshi "confirmed" Shannon as being a victim, and Krauss was "confirmed" by Jessica. These two don't fall under the rule, so their identities are still up for debate.

Keep in mind the nature of Red was explained in much greater detail with the cheese puzzle. Since you don't know what the cheese looks like or how it can be shaped, then you can use one cut to slice it into eight pieces. The pieces don't have to be the same size. This works with that aspect of the theory. Shannon is verified by Hideyoshi, but does not fall under the rule of her corpse being confirmed by Red Truth.

Anyway, what I found was more backstory elements that's all guesswork at this point and a unique take on the sin and promise, but everyone thinks the Rosatrice theory is ridiculous. It's in the archive if you want to dig it up.

>>5672896

Most of us believe he has a penis
And so does pivix

>>5672951

If Shkanon really was the answer to that puzzle, they wouldn't be talking about people not getting it.

Why has everyone just blindly accepted something that's such a blatant troll?

>>5672967

Which is why it won't be the final episode.

>>5672985
>her views was
Christ, were. But still, out of all the philosophies on love, Jessica had the most mature.

>>5672804
om nom nom
dunno sure is a troll

>>5672967

Bern is going to be torn apart in this next episode, given the nature of the series. Battler is going to kick her ass.

I am not happy about this. At all. Battler needs to die horribly.

>>5672985
How can Jessica not know Kanon isn't Shannon without being an idiot? One is her best friend, one is her love interest, she lives on the island together with both of them and has done so for three years.

Rhetorical question. Since Jessica doesn't know, Shkanon can't be true. The trial proves this.

>>5672884
>George certainly doesn't know the bitter truth about Sayo, and neither does Piece Battler.

He does, Shannon told him.

Kanon didn't, though.

>>5673024

Hell, common sense proves this.

Someone had pivix tag for Dlanor?

I've ben looking for hours

When the seagulls cried nobody was left alive, how could the ending possibly be happy? We can only hope Juuza doesn't murder Ange.

>>5673024
How could George not know despite being her fiance? How could Natsuhi not know despite being her employer?
Krauss? Gohda? The rest of the family, for that matter?

Shkanon's biggest flaw is that by far, and I agree it's epitomized by Jessica. It's led some people to develop Jessica culprit theories, some to claim she's crazy, and some to even state that she's also Beatrice.

I think episode 7 will resolve it, but for now we have to assume Author induced stupidity for basically the whole cast minus Battler.

>>5673019
I kinda doubt that. Battler doesn't even qualify as a player anymore.

Smart money is on Meta-Ange getting TROLLED HARDCORE by Bern and being told that there is NO WAY that her family is coming back, even if the game is repeated for a million years.

>>5673050
Juuza is supposed to let one of the suits kill Ange while he kills all the suits, not murder her himself. But the episode 4 scene shows him killing all of them before they can lay a hand on her, then Kasumi kills her. He probably had a change of heart, like Okonogi suggested, he fell in love with Ange. He probably didn't expect Kasumi to shoot and might have been reloading.

>>5673058

Either that or Shannon is Beatrice, Kanon is Kinzo, and they're separate people.

>>5673058
Or, y'know, Shkanon is bullshit, since it makes no sense.

>>5673068
I don't think R07 is going to make the ending: AND THEY ALL DIED, THE END.

Smarter money is on episode 7 ending bleakly and then episode 8 making one final effort.

>>5673019
no way, I cant see that at all, bern is going too go into overtrolling mode and blow up everything

I liked meta Battler more when he was the crying pussy that would snap every now and then. Ever since he started accepting Beatrice he became a little bitch. I liked it so much better when Battler actually cared for the piece world. This series better end with meta battler realizing he's a bitch and that the piece world is where his true hope and happiness lie.

>>5673108

DREAD OF THE GRAVE TROLLING REMIX.

GIVE IT TO ME.

>>5673109
>I liked it so much better when Battler actually cared for the piece world

He stll do, that's why he made ep VI a "lol joking"

>>5673122
Wow. Just the thought of that made me orgasm. Make it so R07

>XD MAXIMUM TROOOLLL BERN EPIC WILL MERCILESS
That's all I hear.

>>5673108

Really? You're not just pulling my leg, are you? Bern continues to win?

>>5673073
wat.
Did I miss this somewhere?

>>5673146
I too could care less for Bern. She's like a saturday morning cartoon villain, her motives are, in a sense, dumber than Sayo's.

But I would like episode 7 to break down Piece-Beatrice. There is nothing quite as tragic as realizing that the hell you are in was of your own design.

>>5673160
His phone call with Okonogi near the end of episode 6.

>>5673174
Ah ok, I'm only about half-way through EP6. Thanks!

And she's not talking about her persona at school. sage for me having to use the animu.

bern will be our savior, and make ep7 the best ep ever made, mark my words

>>5673199
See, once more, Jessica is reasonable. She's speaking in the context of how you interact differently with different people, not how you fake deaths to kill your friends and family.

Sayo, on the other hand, is the sort of girl who mindfucks herself into making three distinct personas. Of course, they all are dirty culprits in the end, but I digress.

Perhaps episode 7 will have a revelation about Jessica, but for now I see her as a perfectly reasonable girl caught in a terrible situation. She's quite similar to Battler.

>>5673208

FUCK ALL OF Y'ALL I WAS BERN'S PET BEFORE IT WAS COOL

>>5673248
All right, but then the solution is that Shkannon is Beatrice and is killing everyone for revenge for forcing him/her into the situation? My apologies, I'm denser than Battler, it seems.

I seriously hope Requiem actually finishes all the murders already.

I'm starting to get really sick of the game being over by the First Twilight. Shit ain't fun this way.

>>5673295
You may well be, it was said in red the killings were not for revenge.
The infuriating part of Shkanontrice is that her motive is, like a small child, good. She wants to open the golden land so everyone can have a wonderful time.

The issue is that the golden land doesn't exist and that she pointlessly killed 15+ people.

But I'd wait a bit. Even with her "good' motive, for Battler to break down like he did in episode 5 makes no sense. There is something we are missing here.

>>5673312
I'm sure there will be less meta arguments taking up time now that Erika is gone. There doesn't seem to be much more they can do with that.

Let me ask 2 questions, having just finished episode 6.

What exactly killed Erika, conceptually? The TIPS and the story gave...mixed signals. What disproved her existance, and what did she understand at the ending for the final shots?

Second, I give in to Shkannon being true, but is there anything that says that Kanon didn't once exist as a real person who died? For my money, that solves a lot of problems.

I am so fucking lost. I managed to wean myself off of Seacats discussions while the game was being translated, I read ep6, and now everyone else has reached a totally different point.

I mean, I can handle Shkannon. That's actually a pretty sweet twist. I just don't understand when Shkannon became EVIL. I'm not seeing any malice. Just because she's now capable of pulling a lot of body double tricks doesn't make her the mastermind does it?

>>5673324

My theory on this is that she commits the murders to create the Meta-world, which will accomplish something I can't really define right now.

My big proof for that is that, sooner or later, they'll need to explain what the Meta-world really is. In some form or another, at least.

>>5673372
As for your first question, Erika is a case of easy come easy go. Here one moment, gone the next. I could have James the racist dolphin on Rokkenjima, because no one knows what happened there.

Likewise, Erika was someone allowed to be on the island due to the fuzzy truth of things. As easy as she is allowed there, she is also gone.

As for Kanon, his father is Battler. There never was a lad named Kanon, it's always been a creation of Sayo and Kinzo's doing.

>>5673324
That missing ingredient is the 'truth'. Something that all the Shkannonfags think they've cornered the market on, when their entire theory rest on the assumption that everyone else on the island is incredibly dense, or else they are in on the whole act which has to have gone on for THREE YEARS.

Not that I can say I've got a solid alternative yet. Kanon being locked in the cousin's room is just as painful a seal as Battler's own closed room. And '17 people' doesn't leave alot of wiggle room either.

The facts of this game seem to be forcing this theory on us pretty hard. But at the same time, it's one of the hardest theories to believe...

>>5673400

For the first question, that actually kind of clears it up a bit. Erika was an illusion from the beginning.

in regards to the second question, I wasn't asking if my theory was correct, I was more proposing it as a counter theory and asking if it was possible.

>>5673376
Well, what do you expect? She's faking her deaths for larks? A plot point has to have a "function" to it.

>>5673410
Maybe Shkannon is like Kinzo in that it's known only to the family members who originally live there, and those people are trying to preserve the secret for whatever reason.

>>5673410

Actually, I'm confused. How does Kanon being Shannon break the seal regardless?

Specificly, the seal on the windows are still set, aren't they? So how did they escape?

>>5673436

Magic.

>>5673436
> It is true that the next room over was sealed, but at the time of the logic error, only the doors were checked to see whether the seals were preserved.

>>5673410

Keep something else in mind too. Without Erika, without Kinzo, and with Shannon being Kanon...

There are 16 people on the chess board. 16 pieces.

>>5673372

The prominent theory is that Erika drowned when she fell off that boat. As it was put in the VN, it was a string of miracles that allowed her to reach Rokkenjima safely and muddle things up. Those miracles were granted by Bernkastel, who had also used Ange in a similar fashion; without her, Ange would have fallen to her death when she jumped off the building way back in EP4.

Yoshiya may or may not have existed as the orphan, which doesn't make any sense. One piece of evidence involves two interpretations of Red: No body doubles exist and the identities of the corpses of Episode 1's first twilight (at least those with full-smashed faces) have been confirmed.

To support Shkanon, I twisted it to mean something like "Erika washed up on Rokkenjima as the 17th person, filling in the missing spot that would be available if Shannon and Kanon were the same person." She would have been alive for a time, and THEN killed by the servant and disguised to look like Shannon's corpse. "No body doubles exist," you say. Erika is Erika. She isn't a body double of anyone, but was misidentified. Also, Shannon and Kanon are the same person and therefore do not exist as separate people. You can't have a body double for someone who doesn't have a body to begin with.

>>5673376

>Shannon became EVIL

If I see that fucking pony one more time...

Okay, I've been searching for about 12 hours now, someone HAS to find this pic for me.

IIRC it was a 4koma or something like that, featuring Battler and Jessica somewhere... around the beach, and this pic was definately widely used as the main jessitrice/pony theory trump card

>>5673444

Oh, so Shannon was in the Cousins Room, and that Window was unconfirmed. Is that it?

But wait, isn't it said in Red that Kanon is in the next room over? I'll buy Shkannon, and I'll even grudgingly accept Kanon being a different person who can die in Red.

But no way will I accept being able to say that one personality is in one room while another is in a different room, while both are alive.

That just won't fly.

>>5673447
>She would have been alive for a time, and THEN killed by the servant and disguised to look like Shannon's corpse. "No body doubles exist," you say. Erika is Erika. She isn't a body double of anyone, but was misidentified. Also, Shannon and Kanon are the same person and therefore do not exist as separate people. You can't have a body double for someone who doesn't have a body to begin with.

I REALLY like this theory, but for there to be 16 pieces throughout, Erika would already have to be dead. Doesn't matter in the end though. Someone substituted her body for that of the culprit. Same result really, and the explosion afterward eliminated any trace of Erika.

>>5673433

Shannon and Kanon have been suspected of faking deaths for ages, as an accomplice to all sorts of masterminds, usually Jessica or Genji. I don't see anything that's changed to make her more likely to be the primary villain.

>>5673421
>Erika was an illusion from the beginning.

This is another theory I don't like because she CAN refer to herself in the red as the '18th human'. (Don't get started on this, Battler and Beato used a different term for '17 people', which seems to basically confirm at the least that SOMEone on the island is a fake) This seems to be setting up the same kind of illusion as Kinzo did for the first 4 eps.

Her presence or absence on the island has no bearing on the first 4 eps, but at the same time, she still CAN be on the island in others.

And don't start in with her being a separate persona of one of the people on the island, or else she'd have to be counted in the first 4 eps. Her presence can only be rationalized by saying she CAN appear on the island but doesn't HAVE to.

>>5673477
Is this what you are talking about?

>>5673493

So, what is the logic behind Erika being the 18th person, but only having 17 people on the island even if she's welcomed.

>>5673485

Remember the shenanigans regarding the words "everyone else" instead of listing the names.

I don't know if the same conflict happened anywhere else in the story though.

>>5673505

One translation I read (clearly not WH's translation) had Erika call herself the "18th visitor".

Visitors and people are different things?

>>5673513

So Shannon's name was never in Red.

But...everyone includes Shannon in Res, doesn't it. Because...personalities...count...fuck.

>>5673494
No, sorry, I didn't mention that the one I'm talking about was fan-drawn, not using the pictures from the actual game. HOWEVER, the pic I'm talking about was always going hand-to-hand with the one you've just posted.

>>5673488

Hold on. If we're talking about pieces and stuff, Erika is the 17th, but a really insignificant pawn, almost a sacrificial lamb. Her entire purpose is to be used as a fake corpse. This assumes that she survived on the way to the island and either died while there or was found and killed by the servant to be used as a red herring.

This only works for Shkannontrice, though. I'm much more in-favor of Rosatrice, which has nothing to do with the pony theory and more to do with the killer's obvious connection to Maria and use of her knowledge. Conceivably, only Rosa would have been close to Maria long enough to use certain magic circles as a tipoff, as well as the HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA. Nobody else in the family was aware of Rosa's candy crushing or the incident on the train which could have ruined Maria's Halloween experience.

>>5673505

Shkanon.

>>5673529
This it? Uh... I can hardly say that this is a trump card for anything. Nice picture though, poor fuckers don't know that the dumb maid will kill them in six years time.

>>5673531

Unfortinatly, all of those things are easily explained by the theory that Rosa was an accomplice in Episode 2, which is also hinted at in Episode 6, and frankly explains that episode fully.

There's no evidence that Rosa's a culprit in the other arcs.

There're truth about Kanon escape:
Battler's closed room is inside Shannon's closed room and Shannon=Kanon. It's just like the riddle about cups and coins.

>>5673531
>I'm much more in-favor of Rosatrice

Wouldn't Rosa herself have to have a split personality in order for this to work, though?

>>5673505
She's the 18th 'human'. There are 17 'people'.

Personally if I were translating that, I'd have tossed technical accuracy to the wind and reversed that. 18 people, 17 humans. Basically, this is the final gambit which SEEMS to have proven the Shkannon theory, since if Kanon isn't being counted as a 'human' but IS being counted as a 'person' (I'm reversing the terms for sensibility's sake) since even if he is a distinct personality with his own consciousness, he is still not a 'human'.

>>5673548
This is actually from a niconico MAD. It seems to have been taken down though.

>>5673562

So, if I'm reading this correctly, the meaning is that Erika is the 18th body, but she doesn't count to the total.

I actually thought that she's the 18 person on that Kakera/Story, but then Battler and Beato who know what the fuck happened in the "true" Rokkenjima revealed in red she was never there

>>5673579

This makes sense in regards to what went on after the duel, and what we've been told regarding Red. In other words, this was a superior Red truth.

>>5673548
THIS. Thank you, kind anon.

And now for the reason I actually wanted to find this picture: what does it have to do with the story? Why are Battler and Jessica shown young there? There was one scene in ep6 where 'young' Battler (6+ years ago from 1986) is talking to someone about the girl he likes, but as far as I understood this scene, he wasn't talking to Jessica.

I'm still going to laugh when Shkanon is proven wrong and the entire fanbase is actually surprised about it.

>>5673597

It's a theory that has Jessica as Beatrice.

But it's only a theory. And the very scene you mentioned pretty much disproved Jesitrice outright, as that's a scene from Beatrice's perspective, and Battler refers to Jessica in the third person.

>>5673597
Oh, this was made back in the day. Like episode 1ish. Battler and Jessica were good friends growing up, along with Sayo. And George. When they were twelve they used to get into tussles and all that.

But then it all went wrong.

>>5673597
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8406785

That's the original video it's from.

>>5673549

The circles, direct messages that nobody but Maria understands, and the fact that Maria is usually killed off in a humane way. Episodes 1 and 2 she survived 2 the end. In episode 3, she was strangled and EP4 had her supposedly poisoned. compared to shots and gouging, it seems to be the most respectful to her corpse. The exception is EP5 when her throat is slashed.

>>5672358
>>5672405
>>5672506
To build on this, Kanon is killing people because of his lovesickness for battler, who he falls in love with when he helps him with that mulch. Also, Kyrie is actually battler's mom asumu in disguise.

>>5673643

And in episode 5 we can strongly doubt that her throat was slashed, because she wasn't dead at the time she was inspected.

We know that Beatrice (say, Shannon as Beatrice) has a relation with Maria. Heck, Maria's pretty much an accomplice because if she wasn't so autistic she would know who Beatrice really is.

We could also say that anyone would consider mercy when killing a child.

The fact that the murderer takes care of Maria in a slightly less horrific way does not mean that she's Rosa.

>>5673554
>cups and coins

Ah... hahahahaha.... Oh man. That's brilliant.

NOW I get why they mentioned that puzzle right after the cheese puzzle, but didn't answer it.

>>5673703

I'm confused. I know the answer to that Riddle, but I don't see how it relates to Shkannon.

>>5673477
>pony theory

For me the pony theory still means a real Beatrice, not Jessitrice. And that is the theory I will believe in until the last episode proves my cherished belief deeply wrong.

>>5673024
>Jessica doesn't know
Implying Jessica don't know about it.

>>5673676
Oh oh oh, someone post Maria knows!!!

>>5673709
Well, it's not actually need the Shkannon theory. Just put Battler's room inside the Kanon's room.

>>5673736

>>5673716
Thank you for believing in me, gentle anonymous. Our day is coming.

>>5673676

>The fact that the murderer takes care of Maria in a slightly less horrific way does not mean that she's Rosa.

It doesn't mean that she isn't.

Devil's Proof all up in this bitch.

>>5673716
Shkanon being wrong and Kanon being Beatrice is the closest we could get to pony theory.

>>5673798

FUCK OFF PONY I THOUGHT WE LEFT YOU TO DIE

>>5673809
Shkanon is true AND Erika not existing means there's room for a person X.

It's far-fetched, admittedly, but possible.

>>5673813
I will never die, angry non-anonymous.

I will always be here.

Beside you.

Watching.

>>5673821

The pony is dead
Bern killed him

>>5673815
No, Shkanon is still up to debate. Seriously, it screams red herring. Ryu probably pulled it because idiots like you eat that type of bullshit up.

>>5673847

Shkanon is what happens when Rena's Close Encounters of the Third Kind theory isn't debunked at the end of the episode.

>>5673808

>implying that Devil's Proof is still acceptable at this late point in the game.

>>5673847

Ok. Assuming that this entire episode was total BS.

Explain the Kanon rescue without Shkannon.

>>5673880

The magical pony came and save battler. You know it to be true.

>>5673744
>>5673703
>>5673554
Please explain in a way even I would understand ;_;

>>5673925

Battler closed room is inside the guest house room were the other were

>>5673925
Something like this.

>>5673918

Kanon made an hole through the wall an escaped from the room next to is

>>5673859
I thought Rena's theory was actually halfway correct, since the parasites were extraterrestrial in origin. They just weren't there to invade.

>>5673952

But we know that the layout of the room isn't like this.

So isn't that kind of nonsensical?

>>5673957

There are no parasites, aliens or bullshit like that.

It was just a disease development in the swamp

>>5673952


Should be Kanon's room the one wit the blue window?

>>5673957

No, because there were no parasites, only a brain disease endemic to Hinamizawa.

>>5673968
The room next door's window is the one that could be escaped through. The cousin's room where Kanon was is completely sealed.

>>5673952

If this were the layout, Erika wouldn't have been able to seal the outside of the door to the room with Rudolf/Jessica/etc.

>>5673974

Uh?

Then why didn't Erika immediately thought of Shannon?

>>5673952
Even if suck layout is possible, what does it change? Kanon should remain inside the inner room in order for chain to be set.

>>5674006
*such

>>5673988
No one said that seal were outside.
>>5673992
It was Kanon, who helped Battler. Red text.

>>5674017

Yes, that's why i thought it was Kanon room the one without the window seals

>>5673961
Do we? The room is known to have enough beds for all 4 cousins to sleep in. Is a partition such a stretch?

In matter of fact, this is the ONLY way it could have happened. If 'Kanon' is some kind of imaginary number, how could he have been sealed up in the cousins room? Even if someone pulled a fast one and convinced Erika he was in there when he wasn't, it shouldn't have been able to fool the red...

>>5673965

The laugh overed quickly though

>>5674029
>Do we? The room is known to have enough beds for all 4 cousins to sleep in. Is a partition such a stretch?

Erika went outside, remember? We even saw her going to the mansion, it doesn' make sense.

>>5674029
Kanon was never stated in red to be in the cousins room.

>>5674033

Not really

>>5674040
Erika is not a detective

>>5673952
I don't know if the theory behind this graphic makes any sense, but I can't stop snickering, over the guy feeling the need to insert the handshooped headless portraits.

They're in the guest how. The Guest Room is in the Mansion.

You're stretching.

Wasn't Battler's closed room in the mansion, not the guesthouse?

Even if this trick does work, the episode makes it clear that this problem is solved only by understanding what Beato is.

>>5674065
Beatrice is the budget architect Krauss hired to design the guest house.

>>5674055
It was. But was the cousins room and next room over in the guesthouse?

>>5674044
No, 'everyone else' was stated to be in the cousin's room. Kanon wound up in the cousin's room by default.

>>5674053
>>5674070
It was never explicitly stated where Battler's room was. It was just called a 'guest room'. And what the hell else do you want to call a bedroom in a 'guest house'?

Erika making it into the room to examine Battler is another story though. This can be defeated, however, by the lack of a clear timeframe in which she sealed the room. As I recall, she never actually checked the status of the seals on the doors until after going into Battler's room. So it can still work if she killed the victims in the mansion, came back, entered the cousin's room and sealed the door behind her.

>>5674070
You didn't answer me.
-->
>>5674006

Even if your layout is possible, it doesn't change anything about the chain in the inner room.

>>5674131
Kanon isn't in the 'guest room'. He's in the cousin's room.

>>5674131
I didn't try to explain this. I only tried to explain how Kanon make it to the Battler's room.

She asked where everyone was BEFORE she placed the seals, whos to say he didn't escape within the short time between.(he would have had to in that time range anyway in order to place the fucking letter)

>>5674153
Ugh. I apologize. Even I can't permit myself such levels of bullshittery.

I can't believe I actually bothered to look into this, but here are screen caps from when Battler's body was discovered. Denying he's in the mansion is retarded.

>>5674188
Self correction: After letting Battler out of the room. Kanon decided he was done working for the Ushiromiya family and quit.

Therefore, 'Kanon' was nowhere in the room. Yoshiya was.

>>5674200
All 3 rooms are inside the mansion

Due to the storm, the whole island is one giant closed room. I have solved every closed room mystery guys, game over.

>>5674208
Denied: all Ushiromiya servants must provide two weeks notice.

>>5674125
Battler's guest room was in the mansion, there are several guest rooms in the mansion since the guest house was built much later. All the bodies were found in the mansion. Erika went out in the rain so she could check the bodies. She even noticed that the mansion's front door was unlocked. During the fantasy scene Kanon also dashed towards the mansion and into one of the guest rooms. The body representation in the closet was even wearing a rain cape for fuck's sake.

>>5673880

Kanon is Kinzo because he has solved the epitaph. Kinzo is exempt from the location check and doesn't fall under "everyone." Kanon rescues Battler and dies in the closet.

I'm still waiting for jokes like "Kanon coming out of the closet", yaknow, since he's a trap and all

So ep6's tea party pretty much confirms that Ange died either shot by Kasumi or sniped by Amakusa, right?

>>5674585
yes

>>5674585

that's how she died in the world where she didn't visit the hanyuu hackjob.

and what's with all the confusion over the last part of the story?
Erika says she is the 18th person on the island, and then it gets red texted that "even with you here, there are still only 17 people on the island"

>>5673562
>Personally if I were translating that, I'd make it so it confirms my theory
Thank god, you're not translator.

>>5674585
Someone who died can't talk with a writer you know.
The flashback of Ange in episode 4 ends in the same way as a normal episode, so the logical way to think about it is it never happened but was just a fiction written by Hachijou, at least the end of it.
That's also how Hachijou knew about Sakuratou for example.

>>5673972
>implying *yet undiscovered* brain disease is somehow better than *yet undiscovered* brain parasites in a mystery

>>5674475
All names refer to the person themselves.
No matter if he is called Yoshiya, Kanon or some weird name, he will always be referred as Kanon.
Stated in the game itself by Erika.

Also Kinzo was erased from the gameboard since he doesn't exist, also stated by Erika and Battler agreed.
Therefore the name/title of Kinzo can't be used.

Actually, did you ever notice how 'mansion' and 'guesthouse' look pretty much alike in the game and both based on Furukawa mansion? Maybe it really means something.

Hey shkanontrice faggots, don't forget that there was NO dependable POV during episode 6 as it didn't actually have a detective.

>>5674672
*All people can only use their own names!!*
Kinzo is a title, not a name.
>he will always be referred as Kanon
It's just your interpretation.

>Kinzo was erased from the gameboard
Yes, original Ushiromiya Kinzo was erased, id doesn't prevent someone from inheriting that title.

>>5674690
It's not an interpretation, it's stated clearly in the game.
What do you want more?
Oh and Kinzo is erased in the name count, it doesn't make any sense for Kanon to be able to use it, of course it's not like you care about making sense if you can deny ShKanon.

>>5674694
>implying shkannontrice makes sense

>>5673676
>>5673739

>>5674698
It makes sense in the context of the story and in R07's crazy brain which is all you can ask from a fiction.

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>>5674796
Nobody ever said someone else claimed Kanon's name.

>>5674800
The whole point of the Shkanon theory is that Shannon can pose as Kanon to get around red truth, no?

>>5674806
Shannon and Kanon are two different 'people', not two different 'humans.'

It's dumb, but yeah.

>>5674806
Shannon isn't "someone else", Shannon IS Kanon.

>>5673952
You're just making up stuff about the room. Maybe you'd be able to pull a fast one if this was just any room we don't know much about. But this is the cousins room, Battler spends a hell of a lot of time there, we know it doesn't look like that.

>>5674816
However only Kanon "himself" can claim his name/identity. Your theory is full of holes.

>>5674813
It's worse than the brain parasites explanation being given to Higurashi. Ryu said he wouldn't pull that shit anymore, right, RIGHT!?!?

>>5674824
Yeah Kanon "himself" who is also Shannon.
Oh and if you talk about the "himself" original version used "自分" who can be used for male or female.

Anyways, nobody ever said that one person can't have 2 names.

The Japanese is more like "Nobody can use Kanon's name except the actual person Kanon" which is a premature version of "All people can only use their own names!!"
Shannon never uses Kanon's name. It just so happens that Shannon and Kanon have the same body
Also Shkanon is not a theory but a truth

The episode 4 red you keep posting was supposed to deny a theory that someone else, another body entirely, took Kanon's name. Kind of similar to Erika saying Kanon's name could be George so there are two Georges. This is a completely different concept. It's not that Shannon uses Kanon's name, so one name is being used by two bodies, but that Kanon and Shannon are the same body.

>>5672627
>A seagull in Aberdeen has been seen repeatedly shoplifting bagged crisps from a store, apparently displaying a preference for cheese flavour Doritos.

There were no Doritos on Rokkenjima.

Jesus christ you ShKshitters can do nothing but twist the red. Like has been said countless times, it just DOES NOT MAKE SENSE that 15 people can somehow be tricked by some crazy maid into thinking said maid is two different people, of different genders no less, for three fucking years. That would only work if said 15 were retards like you.

>>5672062
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>>5674848
Stop imposing your logic on everyone like that.

For one, most people who believe in ShKanon(trice) don't like it at all, the reason they believe in it is simply because they can fucking read.

Secondly, you aren't thinking in term of what happens in the island, only what you think should happen, that's recipe for disaster for a mystery.
Basically get off your high horse, see the fucking game for what it is and you will see that the answer is as clear as day.


Also R07 is the guy who wrote the wonderful brain parasite/disease ending, I don't know what the fuck you expect from this.

You know, if we can't take anything for face value in episode 5, then we can't take anything for face value in episode 6 because it has the same problem except WORSE. Ya, so I say episode 5 disproves Shkanon. Remember that in episode 6 Erika had FULL knowledge of her piece even if we didn't know it. This means she would have the same in episode 5 and would know that the number was off.(that is unless she herself doesn't exist)

>>5674865
What episode doesn't disprove Shkanon? Yet they still don't listen...

Shkanonfags are gonna be MAD when their theory gets shit all over by Ryu.

>>5674885
Can't wait for those delicious tears.

did you even read ep6

are you guys dense or something

>>5674915
This guy probably has some kind of autism, poor guy.

>>5674929
I'm pretty sure everyone who believes in that theory is autistic. I almost feel bad for point out its holes. They try so hard.

When shkannontrice will be confirmed true, Ryu won't be able to go out of the room.

I love how in the end of the episode Beato mentions "But won't this piss off all the fans?"

>>5674929
>>5674947
reading comprehension is now autism

only on 4chan

>>5674955
Battler says that actually. Beato is all "fuck the fans". Which, considering the shit we see churned out here, is fair to say.

>>5674948
He already confirmed it.
Problem is that you have some retards who can't understand the simplest most obvious stuffs.

>>5674956

The Autism comment was probably directed at the "Same Room" theory.

Natsuhi is a Sonozaki

Battler has H-syndrome and is also Beatrice.

>>5674964
>WHY WON'T EVERYONE INTERPRET THE STORY IN THE RETARDED WAY I DID?

>>5674895

>>5674977

Look, I don't like Shkanon either, but to deny that Episode 6 isn't strongly pointing at it is lunacy.

>>5674885

Is there even anyone who actualy likes the 'Shkanotrice' theory and want it to happen? o_0?

>>5674992
>o_0

That's enough /jp/ for tonight.

>>5674977
More like
>WHY AM I ALL ALONE THINKING THAT SHKANON IS BULLSHIT, WHY CAN'T THEY SEE THAT IT'S WRONG EVEN WHEN I MAKE WONDERFUL THEORIES LIKE THE ZERO THEORY

Dude, I think you are all alone in this, no amount of obvious samefaggotry can help you.

>>5674992
>o_O

I made my peace with Shkanon when I realized it was probably no more "the solution" than H-sydnrome was. A part, and an important part, but the core of the mystery is elsewhere.

>>5674999
So now I'm the samefag? Not the guy who comes in with "hurp derp reading comprehension" every thread?

>>5674999
Even if it's true, it's still a bullshit, no amount of obvious samefaggotry can help you.

>>5674975
Ushiromiya Battler. I will now...kill you.
And right now, there is no one other than you on this island. The only one alive on this island is you. Nothing outside the island can interfere.
You are all alone on this island. And of course, I am not you. Yet I am here, now, and will kill you.

>clawingoutthroat.jpg

>>5675002
>>5674998
=O.O=

*shocked kitty*

I want to believe that they're separate bodies ;_;

>>5675010
Nobody ever said that it wasn't bullshit.
But it's true, so what?
You guys fault for thinking that Ryukishi could write a good mystery with a brick shitting answer.

>>5675016
*grabs tail*

XD

>>5675020

They are.

One of them just happens to be Erika's.

Seriously I for one is happy with Bern being the game master if it means destroying the abomination of Shkanon and all its love faggotry along with it

>>5675025
>>5675025
>>5675025
>>5675025

>>5675027

That's true, really. The crueler the GM, the better the episode seems to be.

Ah, /jp/. I was in the mood for some Umineko discussion after revisiting Episode 6 today and I so I wandered here for the first time in months.
You didn't disappoint.

>>5675024
At the very least shannon is beatrice.
Hints are fucking Everywhere.

Ushiromiya Battler has a sin
Because of your sin, people die.
Due to your sin, a great many humans on this island die.
No one escapes, all die.

>>5672782
Is that really all that you came away with from Episode Six?
After it stuffed so many concepts explicitly right in your fucking face?

I really wish Kinzo appeared in Episode 6.

>>5673554
You guys do know the cups/coins riddle?
It means putting another cup ontop of another cup.
Meaning 1container with another container on top of it.
You can treat it as a subtle personality/person using the same body.

>>5672782
Look at it this way.
We have fuck tons of magic fightan and scene and no they are not pointless. They are trying to tell the readers something.
And then we have episode6, where the magic scenes highly implied samefaggotry.

No matter which way you chose to go, it is either
1) Stop your denial and trust what the author is trying to tell you (He is fucking confessing about his shitty DID truth)
2) Retcon ep6 and rendered it useless and prove himself as a faggot useless writer that need a RESET switch

Now tell me, which option will he choose?

>>5675025
NO LOVE NO SERVANTS ONE CULPRIT FINAL DESTINATION

>>5674125
>It was never explicitly stated where Battler's room was. It was just called a 'guest room'. And what the hell else do you want to call a bedroom in a 'guest house'?
Battler's room was "the guest room in the mansion that doesn't ever get used anymore since the guest house was built." It's mentioned this way on at least two different occasions, at that.

Some people seem to think ShKanon is new to episode 6 or something.

They should explain to me 2 simple things, why:
Battler never see Shannon and Kanon together when he is a reliable POV.
Battler never see Kanon's dead body.

>>5674826
But brain parasites was WRONG. That was the point.
Were you paying attention at all?

Who needs red and blue truths when you can have red or blue fingers

>>5675158
No, alien parasites was wrong.
Brain parasite/disease was right, whether it was an illness you can only find in Himazawa or parasites found in the swamp, IT'S THE SAME FUCKING THING.

Aka mysterious illness x used as a plot device.

>>5675139
Coincidence/intentional red herring.

>>5674848
Lets speculate on the who know what.

Confirmed people that know about this multiple personality.
Nanjo
Genji
Natsuhi
Krauss
Kumasawa
Jessica(probably with the retarded golden brooch scene)
George(maybe?)
Maria(gullible girl getting trick?)

Here is the hard part. Why do they want to play along with Shkanon? We all know how Kinzo had been dead for at least two years. Do we know the nature of his death? Is it really really natural? The high status of the so called "furnitures". They have freaking one wingel angel emblem on them when Natsuhi has nothing.

Apparently story and rumour of servants quitting left and right due to some accident with the name Beatrice on it coincidentally 2years ago. Well we are not quite sure when Kanon joined but are they connected? Are the multiple personality also somehow a byproduct of Kinzo death?

Alright I hate Shkanon as much as the next guy and I really think it is retarded but R07 had already given us too much hints to practically proof that it is true.
Lets hope he fucking give us a good explanation on why they act in such a retarded way.

He better not gave us some shitty cat box explanation where the end justify the means.

>>5675207
Coincidence in a mystery spanning so many episodes isn't believable.
Red herring is just what you call everything you don't want to believe in.

I can understand the shannon and Beatrice personality in shkanontrice but...
why the fuck does shannon need to split her soul, again, to make a lover for jessica?

>>5675248
You have the answer there.
He says the same thing in the game.

Why is the Umineko fandom so fucking stupid?
I just finished reading this thread and it's like a competition of who can write the most retarded wall of text.

>>5672060
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>>5675208
>Lets hope he fucking give us a good explanation on why they act in such a retarded way.
BECAUSE OF LOVE

I'm disappointed that we got gypped out of knowing Rudolf's "truth" about Kyrie and Battler once again.
I'd love for it to simply be "kyrie is your mother lol," but I find it hard to believe that Kyrie would fail to properly notice if her child was actually a stillbirth or not.

Don't hate the players, hate the game.
Umineko is just that stupid.

>>5672063
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